Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition

> SS rank
It's pretty doable. You can use this combination:
Vascillia: SS (1)
Crevice: S(0.5)
Saves: 19 (0)
Continues: 0 (1)

This gives you 2.5 for SS.

With 19 saves you have more than enough room and can die many times (just reload when you die.

> Comet
Rarely used this one, but like Phalanx it has it's nice uses.

> Vector
The cool-mode-weapon. You can actually stand on Zakat's head and OHKO him with it if he gives you the time. IIRC (don't quote me) you can use advancedcontrols (only in Mars) to do Decoy+Vector but I never used that scheme so don't quote me on that. You can also use it against Ardjet...for a game-over haha. I managed to use it once on Anubis (the supposed-to-lose fight) which was funny. Gotta get lucky with him being teleport happy.

>combination
I overlooked that possibility, but still, I suppose it would still be plenty hard to S rank the crevice. Especially with a keyboard (there is no chance that I'm doing what Strider does *specifically turning off lock-on while spamming dash to get to one place to another fast, and that's without considering the lock-on targeting an enemy instead of a LEV instead when you don't want to). Nearly all of the LEVs died on my VH run, so I really have to step up my game if I want to clear the section (for now I'll forget about NG SS Extreme until I get a controller).

>rarely used
Same. Like I said, I'd really rather use something else when the game pauses and I think about which subweapon would fit XYZ situation the best. When I do think of using Comet, it's usually when I want to snipe something that's far away from me (whom I also want to prioritize) which will ignore its defense, but when I get Homing Missile, it's hard to think about using Comet at all.

>OHKOing Zakat with Vector Cannon
What I did was bring him down to phase 2, then use Vector Cannon to end things then and there. But as I said earlier, this was done using a save state for testing purposes, I can't really come close to replicate it in normal play.

>Mars' advanced controls
PS4 only, no? If I remember right, I read somewhere (probably your article) that using this scheme prevented you from having the option to pause the game to get a breather room to pick a subweapon. Though I don't remember if you can use that via the normal pause menu, I got too used to holding L1.

>against Ardjet
The escort mission? Or the boss fight (and if so, the one where Ardjet gets hacked, or the first one)? If it's the latter, wut.

>used it on Anubis 1
Wouldn't have thought of using it against him, mostly because of how agile and aggressive he is.

----------------------------------

So, I was wondering. About No Subs runs, is every fight doable under these conditions, or are there exceptions? I'm playing on Extreme for the first time, but on NG+. I've been repeating certain bosses to do them the NG way, but I've faced some problems in certain spots. Namely, against the first phase of Nephtis 1 (both on NG+ and NG). On the second phase, I don't know if it's possible to avoid her dashing into you without a sub.

Thought the train section was going to be a problem in that specific run, but it's actually not that bad. I can even one-shot Cyclopses on Extreme with a well-timed, fully charged Spirit Bomb. Surrounding Naritas also get badly hurt, so dealing with them isn't too bad. On a different note, Decoy hilariously breaks the fight by itself (NG+), in that the enemies will follow the Decoy who's now miles away from the train, and the enemies will go far away themselves that they basically despawn themselves after a while (essentially a ringout in a way, if you think about it).

However, the fight with Nephtis 2 and the Clods... I can't imagine being able to clear that one without subs. Between dealing with Clods without Geyser (or Wisp in NG+), while also needing to deal with Nephtis.... well, I can't even begin to think about a reasonable strat to deal with this, at least one that doesn't rely on luck (watch better players saying that the fight isn't that bad *which would actually be good news to me*).

And then there's the Crevice fight. Without using any subs? On Extreme? Eh....

> homing missile
Should note that NG+ is an outlier, most runs and strats are built around a fresh run for this game (for whatever reason). Mostly probably since the later tools are a bit busted.

> Mars Controls
Yeah you can combine some subweapons that you normally could not in that mode, PS4/PC only.

> Anubis Vector
Yeah was mostly luck, I derped around way too much haha.

> No Subs
IIRC all fights are on my channel.

> Nephtis 1
Remind me which fight this is again, the one in the cage? You can keep her stunlocked basically if you position yourself smartly near the net.

> train
Tight timing but doable with spirit bombs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvtXuHu4vbY

> Nephis + Clods
This was the runkiller for a while but I managed to beat it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_fg61kIuLU
There's also a sick speedrun strat somewhere in this topic where a guy has a Raptor kill her (IIRC he manages to grab her, then a raptor (which came from a CLOD) wacks her to pieces)).

> Crevice
Pretty doable but just rough. You have to allocate all the LEVs to the middle if possible to tank the waves. Without Geyser it's a nightmare at times but you have to tough it out. I did it once and can say: never again.

> No Subs
The true hardest parts where the aircraft carriers (you basically have to destroy them all entirely to avoid being locked down, making it a 15± minute gauntlet of pain and suffering) and the final boss (needed to personally invent a flowchart to beat him without zeroshift). Most other parts can be tricky (as a challenge run should be) but not insurmountable. For example the Inhert fight is annoying without decoy but you can just tank it out. Zakat took some work too.

>later tools are a bit busted
Yes, I assumed that was the reason. My jaw dropped when a full set of Homing Missiles removed 99% of Vic Viper's health.

>combine some subs with others
Assume this opens up many possibilities with Decoy. Sounds awesome, but I'll have to wait until I get the PS4 version in the future.

>all fights are on your channel
>links
Thanks, I will definitely take my sweet time to study these when I finish this NG+ Extreme run. Good chance that some of what you showcase in these will probably also come in handy for vanilla Extreme. If not, I will also observe your other ZoE2 vids (noticed two different playlists).

Same with Kaiser's commentary earlier.

>the one in the cage
Yes, the second phase (with the electrical barriers). Though this is technically Nephtis 2, since the first is the one where you throw poles at her (the game calls them 'sticks').

>can stunlock her
Would need to see a demonstration. Doesn't she get a bit far from the wall when she manages to break free from the barrier?

>a Raptor wacks Ardjet to pieces
A game over? Or am I missing something?

>it's somewhere in this topic
I'll look for it. Like I said in an earlier post, apart from observing videos, I intend to read through this topic to see any useful notes. I may not know of.

>allocate all the LEVs to the middle
Yeah, what I was wondering is if it was possible to do this without Geyser. Though to be frank, not sure what Geyser does to this end. If it's possible to bring all LEVs there in a No Sub run, then what happens if you don't use Geyser? Why did Strider opt to use it? I haven't tried this myself to find out.

>aircraft carriers
That so? I somehow thought it was going to be one of the easier parts. Guess not.

>destroy them all
You mean clear all the ships from their weapons, without actually destroying the ships first?

>15+ minute gauntlet
Oof. Does it at least get easier at some point towards the middle or the end?

>invented a flowchart to beat this run
Based. Glad to know it's at least possible, but it must have been a nightmare.

> ardjet
Basically if you hold her and use her as a shield, the raptor damages her instead of you. And due to the massive damage-buff gained on Extreme they kill her insanely fast.

> vids
Best to just scour the channel, many vids aren't in playlists iirc since Youtube is ass.

> electric barrier nephis
Yeah if you stay close to her you can pretty easily make her dash always go into there.

> LEVS
Geyser makes them less likely to escape your grasp. You won't be able to get all LEVs there, I think I managed to get like a solid half of them there and then it was a scramble of spirit bombs. I'm not keen on making run exceptions but this fight is just so dull mechanically I would almost call it a run-exception.

> harrier section
It sadly becomes hardest near the end. Basically there won't be any spawning enemies until you kill a harrier. So my strat was to destroy ALL guns on ALL the ships first (going from the back to the front, to be safer). And then start blasting the ships' core, starting the spawn of mummyheads and raptors. Then it's a cat and mouse game of 5± minutes going from ship to ship using vector cannon while using spiritbombs to kill enemies if they catch up.

My original note: "Without a doubt one of the hardest fights without sub-weapons, really took a lot of strategizing. I take out the heavy hitter turrets first on each ship, since taking a hit of these means a restart, saving me time. After that I wittle down all their turrets from behind one by one. I don't destroy the ships, as doing so adds Mummyheads to the spawn-pool. After that I use destroying the ship's core as a 'heal' while constantly nuking enemies as safely as possible."
Very tense: https://youtu.be/C_x-WMsr7S4?si=hTIFYnVhYJggoJGe

> final boss
It was pretty depressing at the time since it's rough to call a run quits at the final boss, who is designed to be beaten with Zero Shift. Without it you simply cannot pressure him enough originally, so had to find a way around that. In the Mission Mode you can fight him as actual Damaged Jehuty, which is even worse since he has no projectiles (meaning you HAVE to let him heal for the most part).

>Raptor killing Ardjet fast
I'm confused. Do you mean a speedrunner brought a Raptor from a previous screen to the Ardjet 1 fight? Or do you mean Nephtis (given your previous comment about a Raptor coming from a Clod)? Or... maybe you mean the escort mission with Ardjet?

>scour the channel
I saw two vids that weren't in your ZoE2 playlists, and one of them seems to just be an obsolete attempt at a fight that's already in your playlist. Not sure if you have even older videos, but that doesn't seem likely, as I recall that you only got into this game just a couple of years ago.

>if you stay close to her you can pretty easily make her dash always go into there.
I see. Will try this when I get there.

>Geyser makes them less likely to escape your grasp.
Yeah, just did this in one of my NG+ Extreme runs. Thought they'd behave like Taper did during the escort mission.

>won't be able to get all LEVs there
How many LEVs does the game expect you to save in order to get an A or S rank? Suppose SS is just to save all of them (like in the other ranked mission).

>would almost call it a run exception
Yeah, maybe a bonus credit like the clones in GoW1.

NOTE: As it stands, I haven't managed to get a rank higher than B on this section, even on NG+ with Naked, but I'm likely doing something wrong. I'm certainly not doing the strat about bringing all the LEVs to the center (too demanding on a keyboard).

>actually becomes harder towards the end instead of the opposite
Mother of God.

>link
Into History it goes. Since I'm done with NG+ Extreme, I'll watch the vids very soon in preparation for the proper NG Extreme run (though I did do a couple of fights the NG way just to spice things up from how easy things were getting with the busted tools *particularly Homing Missile*).

>depressing to call it quits at the final boss
For some games in certain runs, there's just nothing you can do about it. I'm a bit glad that ZoE2 isn't in that category, though I wonder how much this relies on luck (knowledge is certainly a huge part of it, but how far can that carry you?).

>have to let him heal with Damaged
Then how are you supposed to deal with him? Is there a limit to how many times he can heal in the fight?

>Missions
I keep forgetting about these. Will probably speedrun the game in a lesser setting to find all these, since I haven't done so yet.

> raptor
Clods are Raptors with an extra shell. He degraded a Clod into a Raptor. You do this by doing a regular kill on them iirc (or was it via gauntlet? It's been a bit).

> Auman crevass
It's just a busted section. You can do the strat absolutely perfectly, but with waves being randomized you can literally be facing a B-rank the second you go left and the waves start going right (killing the right before you can save them). There's a few sets of wave patterns so you have to memorize them and what leads to what. I don't think getting a consistent S rank on that is possible.

> final boss
Luck helps but it's just a tense fight. Auman was pretty luck-based as is Inhert (he can just no sell you). Bonus mention to the 'power trip' fights after Crevass, ironically it's pretty difficult without sub weapons as the game assumes you have infinite meter here and will just spam ZeroShift and Homing, so doing that section 'raw' is very demanding.

> final boss damaged jehuty
He heals at set intervalls, so he won't heal forever, but if you can't stop his healing it basically means you have to kill him like 5-6 times technically speaking.

> missions
Most of them are a waste of time imo but there's some cool ones. The survival mode missions are super cool, especially the last one which has a unique level and song for it.

Wrights been playing zone of the Enders 2? Extremely excited for your videos on it!

Not likely. My playstyle with a keyboard is quite the slow one, because I've had to adapt to sticking to safety (as I can't do better without a controller), which would be boring after a while to spectators.

Raeng: >Clods are Raptors in disguise
Yeah, I know that part. Raptors can also come out of Mummyheads. What I'm confused about is which fight you mean (it can't be Ardjet 1, because of the Clod talk), so it's either the final Nephtis fight (excluding the hacking fight), or the escort mission with Ardjet. If it's the former, then yeah, that would be an impressive way to speed up the fight. If it's the latter... well, that's a somewhat amusing way to get a game over, to say the least.

>randomized waves
Yeah, so it's really luck talk with this. No wonder that you're unwilling to do it again (highly understandable).

>Inhert no selling you
In both parts of the fight? You mean when he tricks you into hitting an illusion of him?

>power trip is also difficult
Not surprising, owed to the reasons you noted.

>have to kill him 5-6 times
OOF.

>most are a waste of time
Sad to hear that.

>survival missions are good
All of them?

>unique level
I must see this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Started doing the NG Extreme run. Significantly harder than NG+ Extreme (where it felt that it was barely even harder than VH, and at times not even that *nowhere close*). Want to say some things, but I don't have enough time to note them all. Just want to mention that the Vic Viper loop doesn't seem 100% consistent to me. Instead of the slashes connecting, he can either block or parry your first slash (the former isn't a problem if you react quickly and go for a grab again, but if the latter happens, it can be a while until you get a proper setup, and by then, more often than not, enough time passes for him to change to 'Flight Mode'). Not sure if it's just a timing thing, a version thing, or if I'm just missing something.

Learned that some generators in the Taper section can get 'tired' (didn't know that could happen), so knowing this made the escort mission ten times easier. Takes some more time, but with my safety focus, this is just what I needed.

The Canyon is as hard as people say, but also fun to try and learn. I'm close to being able to consistently do it single segmented from start to finish. Doesn't seem like the Cellars here can get 'tired', but I came up with a safe approach to be able to destroy it with a very low chance of getting hit yourself.

Started writing notes about my run from this segment, will try to play the game again to cover the earlier parts of it.

Having a blast so far. The difference between NG+ and NG even on Extreme is like night and day. Being forced to actually think carefully about what to do to survive a section is something I didn't get at all from my NG+ runs (I did a run for each suit, so that's 4 NG+ Extreme runs).

> vic viper
I use a different loop for this one, the grab-release loop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh54orBD5bA

> ardjet
I mix up the names, I mean the one with the clod as adds. Is that nephis? I always fuck up those names. It's the fight after the train and before the hacking-boss.

> survival missions
Most are a blur to me honestly. I just remember the last one being super epic due to the new song.

> taper cellars
Easy way to deal with them is to put Taper underneath the cellar and use a pole, they'll all gather around and allow you to nuke them hard. IIRC they can't become 'tired', there was probably a straggler stuck somewhere that stopped the respawn.

> cellars
General tip is to regrade the mummys into raptors, and then fly around kiting them and blowing up the cellars with a pole weapon. It's the safest way tbh. The crusher room makes a man out of you.

>link
That's the loop I use (Strider's is more complicated to use). I thought him parrying you only happened to me, but it seems it also happened to you as well, so that means the loop is only consistent when Viper actually starts getting hit. Also, do you touch the left stick while doing this at all, or does lock-on do all the work when Viper escapes and you need to hit him immediately afterwards?

NOTE: After he uses Ripple and shoots the yellow energy sphere + the purple lasers, I use an uncharged Spirit Bomb to force him out of Flight Mode earlier (while dealing some nice damage as well). If I'm close, he'll start doing the melee attack immediately afterwards. My only issue is him parrying several times after escaping the grab.

>is that Nephtis
Yeah, that's basically the final fight with Nephtis. The hacking one is having to get Viola's AI out of Ardjet's system.

>that's the fight you meant
Then as I said, that's impressive. Would need to search the topic for the clip/video in question where this happens.

>most are a blur
So it's indeed just a handful of interesting missions here and there, then. A tad disappointed, expected to find more goodness there.

>put Taper below a Cellar
That sounds clever, definitely going to try it on my next run.

>straggler stuck somewhere
I'll pay more attention next time and get back to you.

>degrade Mummyheads into Raptors
Yeah, it doesn't count as a 'kill' for the Cellars to become active, while getting rid of a very dangerous threat in the process. Excellent that they behave this way.

>use poles
At first I thought of just using basic shots while slowly strafing around the Cellar (the Raptors can't touch you, and if one of them stands still while waiting for you, just fly upwards or downwards), but you're right, this also works wonders, especially since you'll also catch the Cellar expanding while doing this, dealing some nice extra damage. Mummyheads may come out, but by then the Cellar should be gone, and you can lure them to a more manageable area.

>crusher room
I'm honestly dreading that room even now. Had issues with the room even on NG VH, so can't imagine how hard this must be. But at the same time, I can't wait to figure out an optimal way to clear it all, while attempting to get good enough to clear it without saves or Continues.

Uh, Roy (or Khan and/or Kaiser), could you confirm something? Are you supposed to be invincible while holding an explosive barrel? As in, you can be smacked to Hell and back from all sides, but you take no damage whatsoever (don't even need to press block *not that you can do it with a barrel from the looks of it*, standing perfectly still does the trick)? I think I read a post in the earlier pages here that said the explosion doesn't damage Jehuty if the barrel is thrown, or if Jehuty attacks with it, but that you DO take damage if the barrel explodes while you're holding it. However, that doesn't seem to be the case here. And it seems like Jehuty still has the holding animation for about half a second after the barrel explodes, and it seems like you're still invincible in that period.

I've asked this numerous times to GMG when playing GoW, and to Birdman when playing Chaos Legion, to see if something odd happening during the game is an emulator quirk, or something they themselves have already experienced on consoles, and in 100% of the cases, they confirmed that everything I experienced could be replicated on consoles, but still, just want to make sure with you, as said post threw me off.

If this is legit, then this lets me finish the Cyclops commander encounter (left route for the Canyon fight) 100% effortlessly, since this (from testing) ensures that everyone gets destroyed after they make 2 barrels explode. The encounter can even be ended in less than 10 seconds like this, AND it's as safe as it gets to boot, which is excellent.

So I'm going to go back on what I said and link to a demonstration, but just this once (for the time being):



You could also charge 1 barrel, and attack with it to one shot every Cyclops, but I've found that this isn't 100% consistent, and there may be some survivors left (depends at what point the barrel exploded during the swing animation). Charging the barrel and letting enemies blow it up won't increase its power, so you'd still need 2 barrels either way.

I honestly have never seen that before, might be an emulation quirk but honestly I admit to never having done that. I always smack it around. Might be that you're fully i.framed or that the barrel has a huge hurtbox. Can you try turning around, backfacing them?

>emulation quirk
I've also been wondering if it's a version thing (playing the SE PAL version). 

>turn around
You're still invincible. Tried from all angles (below, above, to the sides), and even moving (including holding the Dash button). Nothing happens to Jehuty. 

However, in one attempt, I DID get hit by that long range attack from one of the Cyclopses (the one that looks like they're punching the air, and this sends you flying *typically you collide against a wall*). Of course, this was while holding the barrel. But I tried again dozens and dozens of times (even backfacing them), and the move hasn't damaged me ever since. Their punches, their rockets, that one red projectile, even their BURST melee attack, nothing can damage Jehuty while in this state (the case I noted above being a strange occurrence that I haven't been able to replicate, or remember what I was doing to make the process easier).

This isn't the only strange thing I've noticed. We'll leave the Cellars getting 'tired' in the Taper section for later (until I finish the game and get around to that part later). I've also seen a Geyser'd Narita (prior to fighting Vic Viper) still being able to attack me. This only happened once, though.

EDIT: I finally got hit. This was by attempting to attack with the barrel (not toss it), during the startup frames. I was backfacing the Cyclopses, though further testing shows that you can also be hit from the front. I was hit by both the long range attack and was sent into a wall with barrel still in hand, and by a normal punch. After this, I tried to see if you're still invincible by just holding still. And you are. 

NOTE: I also noticed something in the video. Sometimes, you lose some of your SUB gauge by letting the barrel explode, but sometimes you don't. What's weird in the video is that you also regain said SUB meter without destroying any Cyclops, or even without getting the Metatron. And there isn't a number appearing below the gauge to let you know how much meter you'd regain (which is the case when hitting things repeatedly). Bizarre.

Found the speedrun video in question, and learned how to do the thing you mentioned.



Simply amazing. Though I used a different approach. Use basic shots to force her into a blocking state, so I could approach her more safely to grab her. Safety is the name of this run (owed to my KB limitations *which I'm beginning to be thankful of, in a way*).

Sick! Also want to add how nice it is to have this as a seperate video to link, always hate having to link twitch clips or timecodes.

By the way, how useful is using enemies as shields? Also I forgot if battering ram was in this game or not.

It's viable. One would often need to spend meter to grab (and/or hold) enemies to be able to do this, moreso on Ex. Meter that I'd rather spend on other things (or in early game, I'd rather attack/toss something, it would hurt/destroy more than one thing while likely being more meter efficient). Maybe in lesser settings where enemies spend more time in your grip it'd be more useful. Or when using the DJ suit. BR exists. Just not as useful as in GoWIII, if that's what you're thinking.

Haven't updated in a while. I finished my NG Extreme run a week ago. It was a lot of fun. This time I took my sweet time to learn most things I had trouble with better (Nephtis 2, phase 2, single segmenting the city part, crusher room, Inhert, the second to last form of Anubis, etc.), and now I have a much better grasp on how to deal with them. Except for the last part of Anubis (weirdly enough this used to be easier than the second to last fight, now it's harder because I can't seem to read him as well as the previous version), but I suppose it's nothing that more practice can't fix (haven't spent as much time learning him as any of the others). 

Still haven't sat down to see full runs of the game (just parts of Strider's videos, mostly). I'll do that after I learn the final boss properly on my own. 

Also, concluded that due to the keyboard limitations, I won't be doing Extreme SS or Extreme No Subs. However, I'll do something original, which will probably be more of an experiment than anything else. I'm thinking of doing a 'Level 0' run (as that's the level you start with, not 1). I will need cheats to manage this, and as I said, it's mostly an experiment to see how different this will turn out in comparison to a normal leveled run. It will be either just a fair bit harder than Extreme, but still much easier than SS Extreme and No Subs, or unexpectedly much more harder than what I'm thinking (unlikely, doubt it can be as hard as the other runs).

Not sure if I'll record the run or not. And if I do, not sure if it'll be the full run. I will certainly write some notes (except maybe for the beginning, as that obviously won't be any different than vanilla Extreme) as I go.

> keyboard limitations
More of an open question, is there a reason for this? Controllers are pretty cheap these days. Would help with a lot of your runs I'd imagine. Or get a converter for your controller that you do have (IIRC you have a ps2 correct?).

> level 0 run
Novel concept, haven't thought about that since leveling is such a little part of the game but would be interesting to see what type of influence it has on the game and its challenges. Wil you be recording fights/key moments?

>why not buy a controller
They don't sell controllers in the small town where I live. Just phones, accessories, flash drives, cables, etc.. In order for me to buy a controller, I have to make a relatively long trip to the nearest city, but:

1. Gasoline is expensive, and the trip is a long one, so I typically only go if I have an important reason to go there other than to buy a controller, and...

2. Last time I went there (about a week and a half ago), they weren't selling PS3 controllers. Only wired and wireless Xbox controllers, but since I'm not familiar with Xbox, I couldn't tell if they were OG Xbox controllers, X360, or even for XBOne (though due to the prices, I think it shouldn't have been the latter). I was told that wired Xbox controllers don't last too long, and apparently you need a peripheral to connect a wireless controller to a PC, which they apparently don't even sell.

And I can't order one online either since the town I reside in doesn't have a delivery agency to receive it, so even for this alternative I'd still have to go to the nearest city to go pick it up. 

>help with runs
As well as open up the possibility for me to play games I wouldn't want to touch with a keyboard (MGS and God Hand, for example).

>adaptor
Haven't thought about that. Depends on how much it costs, but as noted, I'd still have to make a trip to look for it/pick it up. 

>PS2
Yes, but I also had a PS3 controller, which is what I used to play. It's not in a working state now. 

>little impact
Yeah, that coupled with the reduced gains you get on Extreme leads me to think that it shouldn't be that bad. If anything, I'll notice a difference halfway through and beyond. 

>record
We'll see. Leaning on yes if nothing goes wrong (frame drops).

> small town, north of racoon city
Makes sense. Was always wondering why you were struggling with this stuff (just something I noticed). Next time you go there, take some pictures of controllers, we can easily help you identify which one is the good purchase. The xbox one/360 controllers are fantastic for PC, but their d-pad is a bit wack imo. I never liked those. PS3 controller or PS4/5 should do fine too.

Vanquish PC finished last night.

This is next

I hear great things.

Raeng: >pictures
Will do.

Hayabusa: >next
Excellent. The game is getting the attention it deserves slowly, but surely.

Checked again on another playthrough, and I can now confirm that certain Cellars can get tired:



Not all of them can, though. Most others just generate enemies ad infinitum.

I'll do what I must with this second playthrough and finally sit down to study other ZoE2 vids at length. After that, it will be time for the Lv 0 run.

Just to double check: this is on Extreme?

Very interesting. Another question relating to this, do non-kills also count towards tiring a Cellar? I.e. if the crusher kills the enemy it isn't a kill by us, and sometimes games don't let those count. Again: very interesting, always assumed they were infinite.

Yeah, it's on Extreme. And about the non-kills, not sure. I repeated this part a lot of times, but never felt like I was fighting more or less enemies in any given attempt depending on whether they got crushed or not, so I'm leaning towards yes, they probably count. 

NOTE: Not sure if it's known, but from testing, Homing Laser draws aggro to you, so you can use it to your advantage in the Taper section. Conversely, hitting enemies with objects (melee or thrown, doesn't seem to matter) seems to make enemies want to focus on Taper again. If this is known, nevermind, but it's a pretty cool thing to know. Makes the section much simpler. May even do a demo of the full thing.

Edit: Regarding the hitting enemies with objects thing, nevermind, sometimes it seems like it works as I described, sometimes it doesn't. But the Homing Laser thing is still consistent.

I am curious if this is an issue in the original release having to do with memory issue maybe, you dont have access to other versions right?

> homing aggro
makes sense mechanically, but wasn't known yet. Good stuff Phoenix.

>an issue
The Cellar thing?

>other versions
I have the original (non-SE version) as well, but haven't touched it.

Here's the demo I was talking about:



You'll see the difference between the video I posted earlier and this one in the Cyclops + Cellar fight, I use Homing Laser to get all the attention, so they can leave Taper alone. If it wasn't for a slip-up I made in one of the easier rooms, Taper would have ended with even more health left (not sure why he sometimes takes some damage upon being grabbed by us, maybe it's a bug). 

Note that if you don't care about Taper getting some hits, you can use him as a shield to lure the Cyclopses on the very last room to the previous one (I do put him in front of me, but only to be able to move slowly while keeping the camera focused in one direction, and when the Cyclopses get past the first gate, I dash away, which is more or less risky *don't worry, Taper won't take that much damage from being hit a few times, even though this is on Extreme*).

Small note, going through some of the early game testing the EXP Zero cheat, and for the first fight, I noticed that you can manipulate a Raptor to go for a grab if they dash towards you and you're in a blocking stance. They won't get you if you keep some distance, and they're open for a grab themselves after this. The window is generous enough that even with my limitations, I can comfortably go for it.

This will change the way I approach them, usually I just snipe them with Spirit Bombs from a distance (before getting Geyser, that is), because I couldn't come up with a consistent way to grab them without eating a few slashes in the process. Thought of using basic shots to force them into a blocking stance, but they will sometimes cancel said stance and go for the offensive right away, so you still end up taking damage.

The game just keeps on giving. "I love it!" - Gene

IIRC the best method is to use the regular shot to force them into a block, this is the strat I always used on Extreme. But it has to be the regular shot, not the tripple shot iirc. Should be in my notes somewhere.

The grab-bait is new though, going to test that out.

That method does work, but for about 60% of the time for me. Not consistent enough that I'd want to go for it whenever, because the Raptor can choose to cancel the block stance earlier than usual and start attacking right away. Unless I'm doing something wrong.

>triple shot
What's this? Another variation of the basic shot? I've only seen a smaller, but faster shot, but that one doesn't come out consistently (keyboard *or should I say the emulator?* doesn't support the pressure thing *but then again, it's strange that I can see other variations in the first place). The one I see 90% of the time is the slower, but more potent shot.

>grab bait is new
I just checked, Strider already does this. I remembered wrong and thought he was blocking their slashes while waiting for an opening, which sounded like a maneuver that required top tier skills. But no, for Raptors, he does a similar thing to what I do (except he blocks and waits for them to go for a grab, but you can consistently make them do this if they dash into you while you're blocking).

>going to test this
In that case, could you confirm if the thing with barrels making one invincible works for you? Apparently it works in any spot with barrels (not just the Cyclops arena), so it's not a glitch tied to that area or anything. Just don't attack with it, but you can move freely (and I suggest that you do, so you can already start setting some distance between yourself and the enemies after the barrel explodes).

Ok I was going to play the mgs trilogy but after seeing you guys talk and some new tech I’m going to have to replay Zoe2, could wright hit me up on the new stuff he found(too lazy to read past stuff)?

> could user spend his freetime to give me info that is in this very page
Don't be so lazy Omar. Just play the fucking game first.

>I was going to play the mgs trilogy

play mgs, all the cool kids are doing it

Omar: Like Raeng said, everything I've reported is here on this page. You won't have much reading to do. 

Raeng: Forget about the Level 0 thing, we do start from Lv 1. It's just that when you finish the game and save the clear game data, the file shows Lv 0, but when you actually start playing, your level is set to 1. My mistake on that part. 

I noticed that the game lags a bit when recording in spots with a lot of things going on, but not sure if this also happened in the original hardware. Still, going to record what I can.

Read everything(I think), coolest thing is 100 percent the nephtis shield tactic, so would that mean that using enemies as shields is better the higher the difficulty? And the raptor grab thing is great as well(raptors are a really good “fodder” enemy, such a fucking annoying bastard I love them), will restart the game in very hard again.

Ok the fact using enemies as shields on higher difficulties becomes much more useful is the best thing ever this game rocks, gonna keep doing that in the beginning until like canyon on VH.

Super hard seems to be a bit of a game changer….. nice to see the more cool options have more utility in it, and I love double edged high difficulties.

To get a SS rank on the field battle(levs protect mission) can you speed the process up by using wisp to grab the legs to bring them to the middle or no?

To get a SS rank on the field battle(levs protect mission) can you speed the process up by using wisp to grab the legs to bring them to the middle or no? Asking since bullseye strider and others I think don’t use wisp.

They escape way too fast from Wisp.

Been making some progress on the Lv 1 run. I'm on the Canyon and you can already see some differences just from being underleveled, besides having less SUB meter.

Also realized that you can loop Nephtis in a manner she can't escape if done right. Fight gets done relatively quick despite you dealing chip damage (due to the level gap).

So mummyheads can fire missiles in super hard or is it the pests that do that(mosquitos I think they’re called)?

The train section at Lv 1 is notably difficult. At least moreso than in a normal leveled run. You can no longer one shot Cyclopses with a fully charged Spirit Bomb, so in most cases you'll have to spend much more resources to deal with them.

Probably not new news, but if you’re in a parry war with a raptor or any other enemy you can win it by simply using phalanx to stun them a bit after a parry and then do whatever you want afterwards, and you will still have your restored meter from said parries back.

Extreme difficulty was the prototype for ninja gaiden 2, the fucking spiders have rocket launchers now and their first room felt as complex as a regular action game level you’d see in other games…. I’m in for a ride.

For those interested, here is an incomplete list of damage values for ZoE2.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1af77jsej9PHfMLQuDkeN6kJJT60j2aItFbHh1l1LePk/edit

Notation is as follows. The first number before all the arrows is the damage done by a particular offense at Lv 1. The following number next to the first arrow would be the damage done at Lv 2.

For example, with "Basic shot", you see the following: 4 → 5 → 7. That means the basic shot deals 4 damage when you're at Lv 1, 5DMG at Lv 2, 7DMG at Lv 3, and so on. The very last number denoted like this: "→ ... → (X)" is the damage done by something at Lv 99. It is unlikely for anyone to ever reach this level (and if they do, they have far too much time in their hands *considering that grinding isn't really a thing until the very last stretch with the Nephtis clones, and by that point only one enemy remains *the final boss*), still, decided to include it.

Numbers denoted like this (x/x/x) means multiple hits.

Some things of note:

- A fully charged Spirit Bomb deals as much damage as F. Mine. Both deal the same damage as Vector Cannon at Lv 1.

- Vector Cannon is not affected by levels. More testing is required to see if it deals fixed damage (ignores enemy resistances) or not.

- The upwards/downwards finisher is stronger than the regular finisher (but all are weaker than the BURST attack).

- Collisions don't scale with levels.

- Smacking enemies against each other strangely scales with level (but only for the enemy you're hitting, the enemy you're holding takes non-scaling damage).

And some other things.

NOTE: It is unlikely for me to continue testing for more things, other than maybe continue testing for Phalanx (its damage isn't consistent, so it's somewhat of a pain to test) and environmental objects. Why? At the beginning of the document, I note that all of this was tested against a Lv 3 Raptor on Extreme (the pair you encounter at the beginning).

When I encountered Lv 4 Raptors (the ones right before Ardjet), I noticed that their HP was the same (100, same as Lv 3 Raptors), but they took reduced damage from everything. This basically means that I'd have to repeat the process against every single enemy (unlike in GoW, where the damage you deal is the same across all enemies and bosses), including their higher level variants. There aren't that many, but their levels vary throughout the game, and doing all of the above was pretty time consuming as is, let alone for two things (forget about a dozen).

If I had a way to get a damage formula directly from the game, things would be different. But as it stands, if I wanted to make a complete list, it would take a massive amount of time, and I no longer have that time in my hands. So this is the best I can offer. Maybe someone playing the PC version can look into the game's files more directly.

It is interesting to me, though, that this game basically uses a Defense stat (due to what I said above about a Lv 4 Raptor having less HP than the Lv 3 one, but they take reduced damage from everything *didn't test collisions nor Vector Cannon*) despite being more of an Action game rather than an RPG. Not that it matters much, since even on Extreme, encounters can end very, very quickly (thank goodness).

Doing god's work, fantastic stuff. Going to dive into that in a bit.

Added the following:

- Damage values for held objects against Lv 3 Raptors (except barrels, because I couldn't find a place where you can find Lv 3 Raptors and barrels at the same time).

- Held object damage data for Lv 4 Raptors (only covered Lv 4 Raptors just to get barrel info *because of the point above*, however, if you observe the Lv 3 data, it's not hard to infer how much damage a barrel would hypothetically deal against a Lv 3 Raptor, so this is still helpful).

- Data for Cellars.

I believe that's as far as I'll go for now. Enjoy.

Small note: Found out that certain enemies who share the same level (Lv 3 Raptors and Lv 3 Cyclopses) take the same damage (they both also have the same HP *100*). If the only distinction for whether an enemy takes reduced damage as the game goes on is their Level, and is not dependent on enemy type, then I may return to this later (as that would save me a lot of time).

Amusing that the enemies I've seen so far have the same HP; 100. IIRC Vic Viper had 10.000HP, same as Cellars.

Imagine if the only two HP values the game ever uses is 100 and 10.000, and the only distinct thing about them is the enemy's Level (since it determines whether they'll take more or less damage), and in the case of bosses and Cellars, resistances.