Zone of the Enders 1

Managed to snag a copy for 5 bucks for the PS2. Played it for about an hour or two, checked a guide and found out I'm almost done with the game. Damn, this title doesn't screw around haha! Have to say though...it's a tad...boring? I assume ZoE2 improved on a lot of fronts? The level design is bland, enemies are bland, the story is bland, the constant backtracking a chore. They managed to sort of make a mecha game ... boring? Really hard to describe. Combat itself is really fun though.

Yeah 2 is way better. I never liked 1 very much. One element I thought was pretty cool were the flying parts where you can see conflicts and go down to help.

There was also collateral damage that resulted in people dying and could ruin your rank. They removed this kind of stuff from 2. Not sure how I feel about it because I never tried to seriously rank 1, but I remember it really pissing off one of my friends.

2 is indeed much better. Combat is way tighter, much more aggressive enemies, better environments and bosses. There’s also no backtracking. I still think 1 is a pretty cool  game but I’d be lying if I said I ever really think about it.

The story still sucks in 2 so if you play it, don’t expect any improvement in that area.

Okay that's great to hear that the second game changed all that! Also Infinity, I noticed you have two accounts? Want me to delete one? Or leave it as is?

I do? Haha. That’s odd. Yeah the one can be deleted. Thanks.

At least, I assume that's you. There's a user Infinity_Divide0. We've been having some spam issues recently (at least I have) so it could be related to that.

Got curious on how this game was after loving the second one. So I popped the disc back in.

Well the frame-rate is nice I guess. But it still absolutely blows my mind how big of a leap ZoE1 to ZoE2 was. Some of the mechanics are pretty cute and there's a nice uniqueness behind having the final boss being a 'supposed to lose' fight that you can only find in the PS2 era. That said, I'm not touching this game again haha.

Did decide to finish it though. So I sat down for a few minutes, did some fights and watched the credits roll. In the bin it goes!

EDIT: can't emphasize enough that it is impressive how a game with basically the same moves has a better combat system. The little tweaks to animations, their speed, mobility, switching from resources to metermanagement, the updated grab mechanic - it is all so important in delivering a great action game.

I played this series a ton back in the day. Enjoyed the two games on about equal terms, but for different reasons. Really need to replay the games to remember properly though.. (maybe just ZoE2)

I remember normal enemy fights being more interesting in ZoE1 whereas ZoE2 is full of cannon fodder type enemies (more anime, empowering I guess). ZoE1 more oppressive atmosphere with dangerous enemies and focus on dueling smarter enemies at low counts. compared to a lot of musou style throwing enemies into eachother in ZoE2 for crowd control.

I liked how enemies basically become bosses depending on the enemy AI level, never seen something like that since in an action game. eg. Cyclops at max AI level on veryhard. In ZoE2 this kind of element pretty much totally gone and powerful fights are usually some gimmick enemy type or boss fight with a lot of set-up. iirc the grab might have actually been too strong in ZoE2, the spin throw ending up being relied on a lot more than other options?

Recall ZoE1 being pretty challenging on the hardest difficulty? Really short game regardless and it's fun having both very different regardless of core similarities (same mech), 1 clearly being an intro part with another pilot showing in the piloting ability

edit: the soundtrack is also a weird but interesting style in ZoE1, same with some visual aspects. ZoE2 a little more generic but not in a bad way

Hey Zaa, good to see you here! Nice avatar too! :)

I do admit to be surprised by your comparison of ZoE1 and 2. When played on their hardest setting I wouldn't call any of ZoE2's enemies cannon fodder considering how dangerous they are. The moscito's notwithstanding, even Raptors can be dangerous. I do feel that the added mobility and grappling options, as well as Geyser being actually useful, really helped in giving more controle to the player. So yeah you can say that the difficulty is a tad lower in that regard, since you're far more powerful, but you are also more in control and there's a bigger learning curve for movement I feel.

That said, Enemies are very agressive, dangerous, have their unique strengths and weaknesses - I personally consider ZoE2 to be a beat for beat improvement on the original. Though I can understand some might prefer the more open nature of ZoE1 and the 'city on fire' aspect of it. I can respect that.

That said the switch from ammo to meter management, the more creativity in gameplay in terms of subweapons and the grab and how it works, barring perhaps God of War 2 I can't really think of a game that has this good a grappling system. The option to grab an enemy and how it handles is just so great. Do you grab them and use them as a shield? Do you grab them and immediately throw for a quick kill? Do you do the spin-throw for spin-damage on the enemies around you? Or do you Geyser them first and carry them to touch other enemies with them so that they are also Geysered? Ton of fun applications! Especially in combination with Cellars.

Very interesting to hear someone prefer ZoE1, I’ve always thought it was hugely inferior to the sequel. The grabs and subweapons in 2 are sublime and about as close to perfect as I’ve seen, endless possibilities and room for creativity against every enemy type. The first game certainly has its own personality but from a raw mechanical standpoint it has no where near the staying power of the sequel IMO.

And I can’t really get on board with the idea of ZoE2 having fodder enemies. Groups are extremely dangerous, enemies like the cyclops absolutely crush your health, and a mummyhead left unattended is a death sentence. Clods also force different prioritization and have a lot of stopping power. The only enemy that’s maybe fodder is the spiders, but they’re pretty rare aside from the defense mission.

I mostly love how creative you can get with sub-weapons. Decoy for example is great against Ardjet AI, Inhert and also Zakat. It can for instance tank Zakat's super-beam which is harder to dodge on Extreme, in most games they would just give bosses 'special AI that sees through your disguise', but here everything just works. Half the time I'm surprised things work. Only Geyser doesn't really function on bosses IIRC.

adendum: also grats on being member #50 Zaarock! You win the lottery!

>musou style throwing enemies
I see what you're saying, but I don't think a higher enemy count makes a game 'musou style'.

>ZoE1 good points
I doubt anyone will agree but I really like that 'world map' where you were flying high above and could see fires and explosions below indicating conflicts, then go down and interfere.

>good grappling system
Try Pandora's Tower on Wii. It might not be as good but the chain had a lot of cool stuff.

> ZoE1 map world
I think I would've loved that when I was younger, now I'm old and I just want a hallway with a clear destination so I can enjoy the combat haha.

> pandora's tower
I really wish games like that would get re-released. I don't have my Wii hooked up anymore and my WiiU isn't my favourite console to use due to its charging issues. Everything I hear and see about the game is interesting.

I bought this game some days ago and now I'm doing my second run on hard difficulty. I know the sequel is better but I'm enjoying the first one at the moment. Do you know any hidden techs or how the ranking system works? I've read ZoE2 has fantastic sub-weapons, is it the same for the predecessor? Are there any ways to use them efficiently here?

Most subs didn't really do anything here, there's a few that deal damage but general attacks beat those out unless it is a specific weakness. Decoy is pretty good though as is gauntlet. It's a fun game but compared to the sequel, it just is overshadowed imo on a mechanical level.

You can still use some AI manipulation. Homing lasers still force some enemies into certain attacks iirc like Viola is forced to do her...dash I believe? It's been a while. You thinking of getting ZoE2?

All right, it's more or less what I expected. I will definitely play ZoE2 but after other titles. Just so I know, is there a faster way to re-center the camera in ZoE2? I'm probably used to Ninja Gaiden, but the left analogue stick seems a strange choice.

That, and the lock-on, are probably the only real issues I have with the series. ZoE2 also has this weird 'let go of the stick and let it recenter by itself' feature. Which I just don't understand.

I finished it! Those rescue missions were very annoying haha.
Neith and Zombie Neith are good bosses and the grab was finally useful. Other bosses are pretty mediocre, easy patterns and nothing else. Normal enemies are much more interesting, especially when they are LV7 or higher. Simple game, but still fun.

Great job man! Damn, almost giving me a feeling to boot the game up again. Will you be trying ZoE2 as well soon?

Yesterday I tested ZoE2 demo on Steam and yes... it seems a huge jump in quality. A lot of grabs, charged shots, the fourth hit changes the melee combo, etc. A glimpse has shown me so much, so I'm very optimistic about it. After some titles I'll certainly buy that game. It's so revered here that it's difficult to wait.

What's the game that you're playing now in between then?

I was playing Final Fantasy I-III (NES versions) and doing a normal run with no healing items in Sigma 1. My saves were deleted by accident so I have to unlock everything again. I need to do another hard run and then I can skip VH and go to MN. I started FFIV some days ago but I was a bit burned out so I bought ZoE, and that's it.

I still would like to one day get into the Final Fantasy series. Absolutely adored my time with FFX and I'm a big sucker for Turn Based JRPGs, just never got into the series. Which ones you like the most?

These three were my first FF games so my knowledge is limited but I tested a lot thanks to emulator's save states (e.g. different tactics against bosses when underleveled). FF2 is the worst one because you have to level up every single stat using the corresponding action. Even getting hit increases your HP. You have to level up every single spell if you want to use magic effectively, an absolute nightmare. FF1 and FF3 are good but very simple games. FF3 is a bit deeper because there are more meaningful options and bosses that put up a fight. I heard FFV and FF Tactics are the ones you should play if you want to try the best old FF titles.

I always thought FFIV was the top contender, paired with FFVI? Maybe I heard wrong.