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DMC5 Special Edition

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1DMC5 Special Edition Empty DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:28 am

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
Announced today on PlayStation's PS5 showcase.

-Playable Vergil
-Turbo Mode
-Legendary Dark Knight
-Ray Tracing

Launches digitally day 1 on Next-Gen, physical coming at undetermined later date.
Additionally, Vergil will be offered as paid DLC for Xbox One, PS4 and PC at a later date.

Sooo let's talk about that thing.

I figured that even if Capcom hadn't initially planned a Special Edition, they would eventually do one. Capcom isn't wont to leave a rerelease on the table, and literally every Itsuno DMC game (including DmC) has had a special edition with playable Vergil. A new console launch is an easy way to justify a rerelease anyway, so DMC5SE isn't only particularly viable, it's expected.

Anyhoo, I'm happy for all the fans who've wanted this, but I can't deny my personal excitement for the series has faded over the years. It's not DMC, it's me.

That said, I think Legendary Dark Knight was super fun in DMC4SE and it probably won't generate much buzz on its own but it's low-key the most exciting feature imo.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

2DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:36 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
Love your avatar!


Yeah I'm stoked for this. DMC V NEEDS Turbo mode, so that alone has me sold. LDK mode is of course welcome as well.

I heard a rumor a couple months ago that Vergil will have a 5 mission mini campaign. Didn't see this mentioned in the trailer so it's probably not true. That'd be nice though. Just replaying the base campaign in 3 and 4 SE as Vergil was pretty lame.

3DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 am

invisigoth1013

invisigoth1013
D-Rank
I think I just posted like 2 days ago about how I find it somewhat disappointing after all these years DMC still won't offer some sort of unlockable characters in the game but resort to special editions afterwards, only to give you extra characters that run through the SAME campaign, again. Then today Capcom did exactly what I just said with DMC5 (people were expecting it to happen anyways). With the price of $5 as DLC I don't think there will be some mission mini campaign. Knowing Capcom, I still hope that they might have left extra missions out (and hopefully the playable ladies) to the physical release of DMC5 SE on PS5. Otherwise the marketing campaign to release a DLC then a physical release on DMC5 SE for PS5 later seems rather odd.

4DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:13 am

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
@AeternalSolitude wrote:Love your avatar!


Yeah I'm stoked for this. DMC V NEEDS Turbo mode, so that alone has me sold. LDK mode is of course welcome as well.

I heard a rumor a couple months ago that Vergil will have a 5 mission mini campaign. Didn't see this mentioned in the trailer so it's probably not true. That'd be nice though. Just replaying the base campaign in 3 and 4 SE as Vergil was pretty lame.

Thanks! I think this avatar is one of the funnier things I've done with my 30+ years but you're the first person to say anything. Actually one person said "Is that from a movie" or something and it made me feel like a fossilized trilobite.

Would be a pleasant surprised if Vergil has any new content. DMCV really did set us up for more Dante/Vergil and Lady/Trish stuff but honestly I'd be surprised if it's in the cards for this release.


@invisigoth1013 wrote:
I think I just posted like 2 days ago about how I find it somewhat disappointing after all these years DMC still won't offer some sort of unlockable characters in the game but resort to special editions afterwards, only to give you extra characters that run through the SAME campaign, again. Then today Capcom did exactly what I just said with DMC5 (people were expecting it to happen anyways). With the price of $5 as DLC I don't think there will be some mission mini campaign. Knowing Capcom, I still hope that they might have left extra missions out (and hopefully the playable ladies) to the physical release of DMC5 SE on PS5. Otherwise the marketing campaign to release a DLC then a physical release on DMC5 SE for PS5 later seems rather odd.

Tbh I've never maligned them for not offering these characters for free. In a game with combat this robust, these characters require at least as much dev work as a fighting game character. It's not like in PS2 Shinobi where you're basically just getting reskins with a couple sliders tweaked. It would be exceptional (and probably imprudent from a business perspective) to develop and release Vergil for free. When they gave Vergil's Downfall away as a pre-order bonus, that was exceptional.

Has Vergil been confirmed at $5? That would put him right about in line with SFV's DLC characters, wouldn't it? Or are they $6? In any case, I think you're right about that meaning there's no new campaign stuff--on the other hand, maybe there is and current-gen just isn't getting it.

Playable Lady/Trish would excite me a lot more, actually, but that's just me. One of my biggest (and only) critiques of DMCV was that both characters were underutilized and, I thought, quite lame. That said, I wouldn't bet on that being in the cards for this release, but if it happens I'll be real impressed. I don't think they intended to do a Special Edition for DMCV, so Vergil will probably be the most substantial feature. Still, that's a pretty darn good one.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

5DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:02 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'll consider it if they let us play as anyone anytime.

6DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:42 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
@Lacquerware wrote:Thanks! I think this avatar is one of the funnier things I've done with my 30+ years but you're the first person to say anything. Actually one person said "Is that from a movie" or something and it made me feel like a fossilized trilobite.

That's surprising. Alien stuff is pretty popular to this day, seems someone would get the reference. I've been giggling all day since seeing it, so your effort has finally payed off :)


-Lady\Trish
I've personally never liked how they were lumped together. Lady was the quiet and independent tomboy, and Trish was Dante's Femme-Fatale sidekick. Now they're indistinguishable from each other.

7DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:06 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
Bad news if you're on PC - there is no Special Edition. Just the Vergil DLC. None of the graphical/horsepower upgrades like Ray Tracing. On PC. Where it was invented.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1306408688593272835

Fuck off Capcom, honestly. I'm not buying a console for "next gen performance" when PC can easily outperform it. That's put a serious downer on my excitement for this.

Oh well, at least I can save some money and still play my PS4 version with the DLC!

8DMC5 Special Edition Empty the end? don't bet on it on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:28 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
C-Rank
Yeesh. I couldn't play this. These...people look like their own cosplayers. And the character wankery goes to the 11. I'm glad I'm strong enough now to let this ship sail. Time was I would buy a console for a one title that would entice me. This looks like the antipodes. Too bad it will nevertheless be hailed as a relevant title since they became so sparce.

9DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:09 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
This is honestly looking to be the worst Special Edition treatment in series history if that's all that is added. Vergil seems to only have one weapon, and TM and LDK seem to be PS5 exclusive. No new costumes, no Trish or Lady. No new missions (at least, I assume not).

That said, better than absolutely nothing. DMC really needs Turbo and this entry especially I feel.

> play any character on any stage
Highly doubt this will make the cut. It's scary that modded DMC5 far outshines even DMC5:SE at this point.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

10DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:08 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
(Anyone else have trouble with the multi-quote function? When I click the button nothing happens. I know I've used it at least once before, but I don't remember what I did.)

@AeternalSolitude wrote:
-Lady\Trish
I've personally never liked how they were lumped together. Lady was the quiet and independent tomboy, and Trish was Dante's Femme-Fatale sidekick. Now they're indistinguishable from each other.

That's a good point. To begin with I feel like Lady's personality and look changed drastically in DMC4 in ways that didn't serve the character. Not that this series' characterizations have ever been particularly profound OR consistent, but it felt like they took a cool action character and changed everything about her so that she would be eye candy, and then they also made Trish even more eye candy-y, even giving her a highly questionable second form (Gloria) so they could make her two eye candy characters in one? If they were so worried about eye candy maybe they should've made the environments less bland-as-hell, amirite?!

Sorry, getting off topic. But yeah Lady and Trish have essentially congealed into a useless miasma of Feminine Wiles when both started off as decently interesting or at least rad to watch. 4SE's treatment of them as playable was encouraging, so DMCV's treatment bummed me out a little.

@Gregorinho wrote:Bad news if you're on PC - there is no Special Edition.
See to me this reeks of "We didn't plan to do a Special Edition and then we realized we couldn't on PC." Either that or they came away from the DmC Definitive Edition experience feeling like they made the right call (not doing a PC SKU).

I think what we're seeing here is they had playable Vergil, but the new console launch was a convenient opportunity to rebrand the game under the traditional (and long demanded) SE moniker. So they slapped on what features they could to round it out, but Vergil was really the core of their focus. That's my guess. Also entirely possible that Sony tossed them some money for this, and that's the only reason an SE is happening to begin with.

@Royta/Raeng wrote:This is honestly looking to be the worst Special Edition treatment in series history if that's all that is added

We don't know for sure that they've blown their whole load yet. I'd expect at least one more little blip of an announcement. Costumes seem well within the realm of possibility. I'd also argue that DMCV was BY FAR the best base game.

Missing out on the other features (especially Turbo and LDK) is a bummer, but on the other hand, having the option to get Vergil for just five bucks instead of having to buy an entirely separate SKU is quite nice for those content with current-gen/PC. It's not that weird for the next-gen version of a multi-gen game to have additional features, but I think the "Special Edition" framing (as opposed to just calling it DMCV for the PS5) is actually hurting perception a little.

@Zenyn wrote:These...people look like their own cosplayers. And the character wankery goes to the 11. I'm glad I'm strong enough now to let this ship sail. Time was I would buy a console for a one title that would entice me. This looks like the antipodes. Too bad it will nevertheless be hailed as a relevant title since they became so sparce.

Yeaaaah, I've never been fully convinced this photorealistic look was a good fit for this series, precisely because of that "cosplayer" effect. It's not that big a deal because the series mostly doesn't take itself seriously, but I've always thought it still takes itself a little too seriously ("KIRIEEEEEEEE!!!! 😭") But I guess maybe it helped them appeal to a more mainstream audience a little? A tad? Also there's a SUPER avid cosplay scene around the series, so maybe it is a good fit after all.

As for character wankery, well, everyone settle in for my "Devil May Cry is an inherently masturbatory experience" talk. Or just infer everything I might say from that sentence. It's a wankfest, might as well own it. It does still get my goat how much people ragged on DmC for being "emo," but now we have V, a goth who gets around by surfing on a panther made out of shadows and powers up by reading poems at you. GTFO.

I have no problem with this game being hailed as relevant though (I'm skeptical that it will be, tbh). I mean the combat design is top-notch, and yeah, ultimately that's good for the genre, which had been underserved for a very long time. I don't think fun action games need to be uh, not like this.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

11DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:15 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
There is supposed to be a mini-campaign for Vergil - I assume this will be in SE but not the vanilla DLC. The game is also coming to Xbox as well in case anyone missed it. It's not purely a PS5 exclusive, thankfully.

12DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:37 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
@Gregorinho wrote:There is supposed to be a mini-campaign for Vergil - I assume this will be in SE but not the vanilla DLC. The game is also coming to Xbox as well in case anyone missed it. It's not purely a PS5 exclusive, thankfully.

Oh wow, is the mini-campaign confirmed somewhere? It's not in the Capcom Unity blog: https://www.capcom-unity.com/2020/09/16/time-to-get-motivated-devil-may-cry-5-special-edition-launches-digitally-day-1-on-next-gen-systems/

Nice that it's not a PS5 exclusive. It's still possible Sony tossed them some money in exchange for pimping the PS5 in some capacity. DMCV had some kind of lightweight partnership deal with Microsoft.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

13DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:44 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The multi-quote does seem broken, I've sent a message to the host of Forumotion. Hope they'll fix it soon!


> mini campaign
If that makes the cut all is forgiven imo, fantastic if true.

> now the whole thing revealed yet
Isn't it launching in 2 months though? I hope there's still some added reveals but I have a feeling this is 'it' basically.

> last minute SE
Some datamining supports this. Apparently the animation for the Vergil-V transformation super was already in the game and could be accessed day 1, same with most of Vergil's moves (as we know). Seems very half assed.

That said, I think we all also give DMC3:SE a lot of slack. It added one character whose moveset was basically his boss moveset with some of Dante's moves copy pasted in and one cutscene (which may or may not have been in the original game but cut last minute, IIRC it was already in the files but I could be wrong on that), a Gold Mode for the casuals, Bloody Palace and...a difficulty between Hard and DMD that's basically DMD without enemies DTing. Looking back DMC4:SE actually added quick a fuck-ton haha.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

14DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:11 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
>Isn't it launching in 2 months though? I hope there's still some added reveals but I have a feeling this is 'it' basically.

Yeah I think Vergil is the main course, but it would be within character for them to save a beat for launch week or preorder week (preorders aren't up yet, are they?). Costumes are exactly the kind of thing we might still see. I think 4SE and DmC:DE each had three-month campaigns, so two months is still enough time to squeeze in another beat.

>half assed
Capcom is chronically short-sighted. Remember how Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen was a whole new disc release for what was essentially a DLC expansion, just a year after the release of the base game? Amateur hour!

>DMC3:SE
Ugh, "Yellow" mode was always atrocious. This is just my Souls criticism all over again, but there's no reason I should have to repeat an entire level because I failed at a boss, and I shouldn't have to grind for money to pay for "checkpoints" (yellow orbs). This is basic "learning how to do a thing" theory imo. You should drill the problem area, not an arbitrary list of unrelated tasks. /rant

Anyway, DMC3SE also retailed at $20, so you could also look at it as the best "Greatest Hits" treatment a video game ever got. If you missed vanilla at launch, it was a terrific incentive to grab the game. If you had vanilla, it was cheap enough to consider double-dipping. But I do think basic quality-of-life things like reasonable checkpoints should've been included in the base product, not treated like an "upgrade."      

>4SE
Yeah three new playable characters was staggering, and I thought $25 was a little undervalued, but CUSA clearly didn't. Next to DmC: Definitive Edition, which had a lot of cool features but NO new playable characters, it felt like a steal.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

15DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:13 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
> Mini-campaign
I was speaking with a friend about this - doesn't look like it has been confirmed, so I might be wrong on that sorry. Apparently there was a rumour about it (and SE existing in general) a while back. I did think some of the clips in the trailer looked like they were from new missions, but I could be wrong. For what it's worth, the rumour was supposed to be that it was an extra 5 missions. I'm going to be pissed off if it isn't included in the DLC, but I'll expect the worst now so I can only be pleasantly surprised later.

> Reveals
I agree with Raeng, can't help but feel this is the full announcement. I hope there's more, but at the same time I'm kind of past caring as I don't have any plans to pick up one of the new consoles at launch. I genuinely can't believe they aren't offering these upgrades to PC players - the pure ridiculousness of PC being the only platform that doesn't support ray tracing. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

> Last minute SE
I think the fact that Vergil was already half-playable in the base game (uncovered by modders) was enough proof for me that Capcom always intended to do SE somewhere down the line. The social media comments on the DMC channels have been flooded with "WHERE'S THE VERGIL DLC" since launch - they've always known they could get the fanbase to double dip...which makes the fact they're offering the cheaper option of the upgrade DLC quite surprising, to be honest.

The Vergil/V transformation was cool. I wonder if you can feely transform between them regardless of who you pick. Will be interesting to see if Vergil can use V's familiars, and if he has any sort of transformation for Urizen too.

16DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:44 pm

invisigoth1013

invisigoth1013
D-Rank
@Lacquerware wrote:

Tbh I've never maligned them for not offering these characters for free. In a game with combat this robust, these characters require at least as much dev work as a fighting game character. It's not like in PS2 Shinobi where you're basically just getting reskins with a couple sliders tweaked. It would be exceptional (and probably imprudent from a business perspective) to develop and release Vergil for free. When they gave Vergil's Downfall away as a pre-order bonus, that was exceptional.

Has Vergil been confirmed at $5? That would put him right about in line with SFV's DLC characters, wouldn't it? Or are they $6? In any case, I think you're right about that meaning there's no new campaign stuff--on the other hand, maybe there is and current-gen just isn't getting it.

Playable Lady/Trish would excite me a lot more, actually, but that's just me. One of my biggest (and only) critiques of DMCV was that both characters were underutilized and, I thought, quite lame. That said, I wouldn't bet on that being in the cards for this release, but if it happens I'll be real impressed. I don't think they intended to do a Special Edition for DMCV, so Vergil will probably be the most substantial feature. Still, that's a pretty darn good one.

I think my complaint are more towards just DMC5 this time after all these years. If you think of it, DMC already had 3 games (including 4SE) directed by Itsuno and there are substantial groundwork for this franchise already, and it was evident that large amount of assets from previous entries were being used in DMCV. Not to mention a lot of the existing moves for Vergil were already built just for his boss fight in DMCV. I have no doubt probably 70-80% of his moves from the DLC will be from what we have seen in M19 and M20 already (or along with some from 4SE). If it's an entirely new built character from ground up, I can totally justify for the extra DLC. I mean if you look at Bayonetta 2, at least Rodin and Balder were unlockable. Though they don't let you use them in the campaign, at least they are available for the tag climax (I guess why they didn't want to put them into the campaign to screw up the cutscenes since they aren't a basic re-skin). Also, co-op tag climax. And Bayonetta 2 was already from 7 years ago? To me, Capcom or Itsuno and team don't seem to be stepping up the game with a few extra steps all these years. It might be a smarter business practice just to single Vergil out so that they can sell that to the players as a separate DLC or SE later, but in terms of player experience I feel like this needs to be changed.

Btw Vergil will come as DLC at 499 yen + tax for PS4/XB/PC later so yeah I guess that's about $5 USD

17DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:19 am

Nadster


A-Rank
Reading off of this, I don't think I can really add anything to this topic. I just watched the trailer and I feel concerned.

18DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:14 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
@invisigoth1013 wrote:

I think my complaint are more towards just DMC5 this time after all these years. If you think of it, DMC already had 3 games (including 4SE) directed by Itsuno and there are substantial groundwork for this franchise already, and it was evident that large amount of assets from previous entries were being used in DMCV.

Is that true? Aside from some of the legacy UI sound effects, I didn't notice anything that seemed recycled. It's a new engine with new character models, as far as I know. Certainly some of the ideas were pre-established, but I'm wary of underestimating the amount of labor and money that goes into even just retooling an existing NPC for play throughout the game.

Still, DMCV:SE looks more akin to 3SE than 4SE, in that it's much easier to justify for people who missed Vanilla than as a double-dip. At least the Vergil DLC option is available this time, but the inability to buy the other new features piecemeal is a little appalling, especially on PC where it's definitely not a technical limitation thing. That might be feedback worth gently sending Capcom's way. Didn't do any good with DmC:DE, but I think there's way more internal investment in the mainline series, plus these are different times.

>Rodin and Balder
I never knew that! Are they any good? I didn't get very far in Bayo 2, but one day I will. Just couldn't be bothered to turn on the Wii U, which for some reason never worked with my sound system. I do remember being frustrated that Bayo 2 did coop before DMC--friends and I had been talking about a coop Bloody Palace and the idea of "competitive coop" (snatching each other's kills etc.) for years.

>Capcom or Itsuno and team don't seem to be stepping up the game
This I agree with--DMCV feels very much like DMC3 and 4 in terms of scope and feature set. It's like this was a "get back on track" game after the previous decade's derailment. It does seem like by now they should be doing true DLC campaigns, but I still think five bucks is totally reasonable for a new character in a game like this.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

19DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:05 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
In terms of recycled, I think I kind of get what Invisigoth means, though it isn't in the usual elements of recycled manner.

If you take it up front, Dante simply hasn't changed all that much since DMC3, which was only then a sped up more flashy iteration of his DMC1 self. Still has Stinger, the same two combos, same helmsplitter and high time. The Styles and weapon switching were the big changes that really elevated DMC3 to its own beast. But DMC4 was just DMC3 Dante with the styles quickly slapped to a button. A lot of elements and consequences weren't taken into consideration and imo Royal Guard and Trickster could've been their own dedicated button years ago.

Of course there are added deeper mechanics, but in terms of kit and raw ability, Dante has been quite static imo.

Nero is a stripped down Dante with a niche ability (REV) and grapple mechanic meant to hook in the God of War III crowd since GoWIII was on everyone's mind at the time. It was the game to beat according to Itsuno and Itagaki.

Trish was basically her DMC2 moveset with some bells and whisttles. Lady's moveset was a swap with Sengoku Basara iirc. Vergil was a boss-character that got changed into a character, took some moves from Dante and called it a day.

I'm saying it really cut and dry and there's a lot more layers to this argument, but I think you can kind of get what I mean.

> Rodin / Balder
They are online only which sucks but they are a ton of fun and play very differently too. Rodin especially who doesn't have a dodge, but a block. The whole co-op mode was done excellent, though I have to say Ninja Gaiden was ahead of the curve here with Sigma 2's multiplayer which was excellent (despite the lag). It really does work imo and should at least be an option imo. Of all the action games I feel Razor's Edge did it best strangely enough. A ton of co-op missions, but you can solo them if you wish. Nioh also has a great system for it post-patch.

> DMCV played it 'back on track'
Had the same feeling. The game was a smash hit so I really hope we'll get DMCVI that ups the ante, but I'm a tad afraid that the whole 'cuhrayzeh' is the new DMC. So less emphasis on cool and interesting foes and more emphasis on giant lumbering hurtboxes that attack once in a while while you sword-trick-sword your way around them.

We'll see!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

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