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DMC5 Special Edition

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1DMC5 Special Edition Empty DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:28 am

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
Announced today on PlayStation's PS5 showcase.

-Playable Vergil
-Turbo Mode
-Legendary Dark Knight
-Ray Tracing

Launches digitally day 1 on Next-Gen, physical coming at undetermined later date.
Additionally, Vergil will be offered as paid DLC for Xbox One, PS4 and PC at a later date.

Sooo let's talk about that thing.

I figured that even if Capcom hadn't initially planned a Special Edition, they would eventually do one. Capcom isn't wont to leave a rerelease on the table, and literally every Itsuno DMC game (including DmC) has had a special edition with playable Vergil. A new console launch is an easy way to justify a rerelease anyway, so DMC5SE isn't only particularly viable, it's expected.

Anyhoo, I'm happy for all the fans who've wanted this, but I can't deny my personal excitement for the series has faded over the years. It's not DMC, it's me.

That said, I think Legendary Dark Knight was super fun in DMC4SE and it probably won't generate much buzz on its own but it's low-key the most exciting feature imo.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

2DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:36 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
Love your avatar!


Yeah I'm stoked for this. DMC V NEEDS Turbo mode, so that alone has me sold. LDK mode is of course welcome as well.

I heard a rumor a couple months ago that Vergil will have a 5 mission mini campaign. Didn't see this mentioned in the trailer so it's probably not true. That'd be nice though. Just replaying the base campaign in 3 and 4 SE as Vergil was pretty lame.

3DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 am

invisigoth1013

invisigoth1013
D-Rank
I think I just posted like 2 days ago about how I find it somewhat disappointing after all these years DMC still won't offer some sort of unlockable characters in the game but resort to special editions afterwards, only to give you extra characters that run through the SAME campaign, again. Then today Capcom did exactly what I just said with DMC5 (people were expecting it to happen anyways). With the price of $5 as DLC I don't think there will be some mission mini campaign. Knowing Capcom, I still hope that they might have left extra missions out (and hopefully the playable ladies) to the physical release of DMC5 SE on PS5. Otherwise the marketing campaign to release a DLC then a physical release on DMC5 SE for PS5 later seems rather odd.

4DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:13 am

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
@AeternalSolitude wrote:Love your avatar!


Yeah I'm stoked for this. DMC V NEEDS Turbo mode, so that alone has me sold. LDK mode is of course welcome as well.

I heard a rumor a couple months ago that Vergil will have a 5 mission mini campaign. Didn't see this mentioned in the trailer so it's probably not true. That'd be nice though. Just replaying the base campaign in 3 and 4 SE as Vergil was pretty lame.

Thanks! I think this avatar is one of the funnier things I've done with my 30+ years but you're the first person to say anything. Actually one person said "Is that from a movie" or something and it made me feel like a fossilized trilobite.

Would be a pleasant surprised if Vergil has any new content. DMCV really did set us up for more Dante/Vergil and Lady/Trish stuff but honestly I'd be surprised if it's in the cards for this release.


@invisigoth1013 wrote:
I think I just posted like 2 days ago about how I find it somewhat disappointing after all these years DMC still won't offer some sort of unlockable characters in the game but resort to special editions afterwards, only to give you extra characters that run through the SAME campaign, again. Then today Capcom did exactly what I just said with DMC5 (people were expecting it to happen anyways). With the price of $5 as DLC I don't think there will be some mission mini campaign. Knowing Capcom, I still hope that they might have left extra missions out (and hopefully the playable ladies) to the physical release of DMC5 SE on PS5. Otherwise the marketing campaign to release a DLC then a physical release on DMC5 SE for PS5 later seems rather odd.

Tbh I've never maligned them for not offering these characters for free. In a game with combat this robust, these characters require at least as much dev work as a fighting game character. It's not like in PS2 Shinobi where you're basically just getting reskins with a couple sliders tweaked. It would be exceptional (and probably imprudent from a business perspective) to develop and release Vergil for free. When they gave Vergil's Downfall away as a pre-order bonus, that was exceptional.

Has Vergil been confirmed at $5? That would put him right about in line with SFV's DLC characters, wouldn't it? Or are they $6? In any case, I think you're right about that meaning there's no new campaign stuff--on the other hand, maybe there is and current-gen just isn't getting it.

Playable Lady/Trish would excite me a lot more, actually, but that's just me. One of my biggest (and only) critiques of DMCV was that both characters were underutilized and, I thought, quite lame. That said, I wouldn't bet on that being in the cards for this release, but if it happens I'll be real impressed. I don't think they intended to do a Special Edition for DMCV, so Vergil will probably be the most substantial feature. Still, that's a pretty darn good one.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

5DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:02 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'll consider it if they let us play as anyone anytime.

6DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:42 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
@Lacquerware wrote:Thanks! I think this avatar is one of the funnier things I've done with my 30+ years but you're the first person to say anything. Actually one person said "Is that from a movie" or something and it made me feel like a fossilized trilobite.

That's surprising. Alien stuff is pretty popular to this day, seems someone would get the reference. I've been giggling all day since seeing it, so your effort has finally payed off :)


-Lady\Trish
I've personally never liked how they were lumped together. Lady was the quiet and independent tomboy, and Trish was Dante's Femme-Fatale sidekick. Now they're indistinguishable from each other.

7DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:06 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Bad news if you're on PC - there is no Special Edition. Just the Vergil DLC. None of the graphical/horsepower upgrades like Ray Tracing. On PC. Where it was invented.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1306408688593272835

Fuck off Capcom, honestly. I'm not buying a console for "next gen performance" when PC can easily outperform it. That's put a serious downer on my excitement for this.

Oh well, at least I can save some money and still play my PS4 version with the DLC!

8DMC5 Special Edition Empty the end? don't bet on it on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:28 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
C-Rank
Yeesh. I couldn't play this. These...people look like their own cosplayers. And the character wankery goes to the 11. I'm glad I'm strong enough now to let this ship sail. Time was I would buy a console for a one title that would entice me. This looks like the antipodes. Too bad it will nevertheless be hailed as a relevant title since they became so sparce.

9DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:09 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
This is honestly looking to be the worst Special Edition treatment in series history if that's all that is added. Vergil seems to only have one weapon, and TM and LDK seem to be PS5 exclusive. No new costumes, no Trish or Lady. No new missions (at least, I assume not).

That said, better than absolutely nothing. DMC really needs Turbo and this entry especially I feel.

> play any character on any stage
Highly doubt this will make the cut. It's scary that modded DMC5 far outshines even DMC5:SE at this point.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

10DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:08 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
(Anyone else have trouble with the multi-quote function? When I click the button nothing happens. I know I've used it at least once before, but I don't remember what I did.)

@AeternalSolitude wrote:
-Lady\Trish
I've personally never liked how they were lumped together. Lady was the quiet and independent tomboy, and Trish was Dante's Femme-Fatale sidekick. Now they're indistinguishable from each other.

That's a good point. To begin with I feel like Lady's personality and look changed drastically in DMC4 in ways that didn't serve the character. Not that this series' characterizations have ever been particularly profound OR consistent, but it felt like they took a cool action character and changed everything about her so that she would be eye candy, and then they also made Trish even more eye candy-y, even giving her a highly questionable second form (Gloria) so they could make her two eye candy characters in one? If they were so worried about eye candy maybe they should've made the environments less bland-as-hell, amirite?!

Sorry, getting off topic. But yeah Lady and Trish have essentially congealed into a useless miasma of Feminine Wiles when both started off as decently interesting or at least rad to watch. 4SE's treatment of them as playable was encouraging, so DMCV's treatment bummed me out a little.

@Gregorinho wrote:Bad news if you're on PC - there is no Special Edition.
See to me this reeks of "We didn't plan to do a Special Edition and then we realized we couldn't on PC." Either that or they came away from the DmC Definitive Edition experience feeling like they made the right call (not doing a PC SKU).

I think what we're seeing here is they had playable Vergil, but the new console launch was a convenient opportunity to rebrand the game under the traditional (and long demanded) SE moniker. So they slapped on what features they could to round it out, but Vergil was really the core of their focus. That's my guess. Also entirely possible that Sony tossed them some money for this, and that's the only reason an SE is happening to begin with.

@Royta/Raeng wrote:This is honestly looking to be the worst Special Edition treatment in series history if that's all that is added

We don't know for sure that they've blown their whole load yet. I'd expect at least one more little blip of an announcement. Costumes seem well within the realm of possibility. I'd also argue that DMCV was BY FAR the best base game.

Missing out on the other features (especially Turbo and LDK) is a bummer, but on the other hand, having the option to get Vergil for just five bucks instead of having to buy an entirely separate SKU is quite nice for those content with current-gen/PC. It's not that weird for the next-gen version of a multi-gen game to have additional features, but I think the "Special Edition" framing (as opposed to just calling it DMCV for the PS5) is actually hurting perception a little.

@Zenyn wrote:These...people look like their own cosplayers. And the character wankery goes to the 11. I'm glad I'm strong enough now to let this ship sail. Time was I would buy a console for a one title that would entice me. This looks like the antipodes. Too bad it will nevertheless be hailed as a relevant title since they became so sparce.

Yeaaaah, I've never been fully convinced this photorealistic look was a good fit for this series, precisely because of that "cosplayer" effect. It's not that big a deal because the series mostly doesn't take itself seriously, but I've always thought it still takes itself a little too seriously ("KIRIEEEEEEEE!!!! 😭") But I guess maybe it helped them appeal to a more mainstream audience a little? A tad? Also there's a SUPER avid cosplay scene around the series, so maybe it is a good fit after all.

As for character wankery, well, everyone settle in for my "Devil May Cry is an inherently masturbatory experience" talk. Or just infer everything I might say from that sentence. It's a wankfest, might as well own it. It does still get my goat how much people ragged on DmC for being "emo," but now we have V, a goth who gets around by surfing on a panther made out of shadows and powers up by reading poems at you. GTFO.

I have no problem with this game being hailed as relevant though (I'm skeptical that it will be, tbh). I mean the combat design is top-notch, and yeah, ultimately that's good for the genre, which had been underserved for a very long time. I don't think fun action games need to be uh, not like this.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

11DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:15 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
There is supposed to be a mini-campaign for Vergil - I assume this will be in SE but not the vanilla DLC. The game is also coming to Xbox as well in case anyone missed it. It's not purely a PS5 exclusive, thankfully.

12DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:37 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
@Gregorinho wrote:There is supposed to be a mini-campaign for Vergil - I assume this will be in SE but not the vanilla DLC. The game is also coming to Xbox as well in case anyone missed it. It's not purely a PS5 exclusive, thankfully.

Oh wow, is the mini-campaign confirmed somewhere? It's not in the Capcom Unity blog: https://www.capcom-unity.com/2020/09/16/time-to-get-motivated-devil-may-cry-5-special-edition-launches-digitally-day-1-on-next-gen-systems/

Nice that it's not a PS5 exclusive. It's still possible Sony tossed them some money in exchange for pimping the PS5 in some capacity. DMCV had some kind of lightweight partnership deal with Microsoft.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

13DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:44 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The multi-quote does seem broken, I've sent a message to the host of Forumotion. Hope they'll fix it soon!


> mini campaign
If that makes the cut all is forgiven imo, fantastic if true.

> now the whole thing revealed yet
Isn't it launching in 2 months though? I hope there's still some added reveals but I have a feeling this is 'it' basically.

> last minute SE
Some datamining supports this. Apparently the animation for the Vergil-V transformation super was already in the game and could be accessed day 1, same with most of Vergil's moves (as we know). Seems very half assed.

That said, I think we all also give DMC3:SE a lot of slack. It added one character whose moveset was basically his boss moveset with some of Dante's moves copy pasted in and one cutscene (which may or may not have been in the original game but cut last minute, IIRC it was already in the files but I could be wrong on that), a Gold Mode for the casuals, Bloody Palace and...a difficulty between Hard and DMD that's basically DMD without enemies DTing. Looking back DMC4:SE actually added quick a fuck-ton haha.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

14DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:11 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
>Isn't it launching in 2 months though? I hope there's still some added reveals but I have a feeling this is 'it' basically.

Yeah I think Vergil is the main course, but it would be within character for them to save a beat for launch week or preorder week (preorders aren't up yet, are they?). Costumes are exactly the kind of thing we might still see. I think 4SE and DmC:DE each had three-month campaigns, so two months is still enough time to squeeze in another beat.

>half assed
Capcom is chronically short-sighted. Remember how Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen was a whole new disc release for what was essentially a DLC expansion, just a year after the release of the base game? Amateur hour!

>DMC3:SE
Ugh, "Yellow" mode was always atrocious. This is just my Souls criticism all over again, but there's no reason I should have to repeat an entire level because I failed at a boss, and I shouldn't have to grind for money to pay for "checkpoints" (yellow orbs). This is basic "learning how to do a thing" theory imo. You should drill the problem area, not an arbitrary list of unrelated tasks. /rant

Anyway, DMC3SE also retailed at $20, so you could also look at it as the best "Greatest Hits" treatment a video game ever got. If you missed vanilla at launch, it was a terrific incentive to grab the game. If you had vanilla, it was cheap enough to consider double-dipping. But I do think basic quality-of-life things like reasonable checkpoints should've been included in the base product, not treated like an "upgrade."      

>4SE
Yeah three new playable characters was staggering, and I thought $25 was a little undervalued, but CUSA clearly didn't. Next to DmC: Definitive Edition, which had a lot of cool features but NO new playable characters, it felt like a steal.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

15DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:13 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
> Mini-campaign
I was speaking with a friend about this - doesn't look like it has been confirmed, so I might be wrong on that sorry. Apparently there was a rumour about it (and SE existing in general) a while back. I did think some of the clips in the trailer looked like they were from new missions, but I could be wrong. For what it's worth, the rumour was supposed to be that it was an extra 5 missions. I'm going to be pissed off if it isn't included in the DLC, but I'll expect the worst now so I can only be pleasantly surprised later.

> Reveals
I agree with Raeng, can't help but feel this is the full announcement. I hope there's more, but at the same time I'm kind of past caring as I don't have any plans to pick up one of the new consoles at launch. I genuinely can't believe they aren't offering these upgrades to PC players - the pure ridiculousness of PC being the only platform that doesn't support ray tracing. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

> Last minute SE
I think the fact that Vergil was already half-playable in the base game (uncovered by modders) was enough proof for me that Capcom always intended to do SE somewhere down the line. The social media comments on the DMC channels have been flooded with "WHERE'S THE VERGIL DLC" since launch - they've always known they could get the fanbase to double dip...which makes the fact they're offering the cheaper option of the upgrade DLC quite surprising, to be honest.

The Vergil/V transformation was cool. I wonder if you can feely transform between them regardless of who you pick. Will be interesting to see if Vergil can use V's familiars, and if he has any sort of transformation for Urizen too.

16DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:44 pm

invisigoth1013

invisigoth1013
D-Rank
@Lacquerware wrote:

Tbh I've never maligned them for not offering these characters for free. In a game with combat this robust, these characters require at least as much dev work as a fighting game character. It's not like in PS2 Shinobi where you're basically just getting reskins with a couple sliders tweaked. It would be exceptional (and probably imprudent from a business perspective) to develop and release Vergil for free. When they gave Vergil's Downfall away as a pre-order bonus, that was exceptional.

Has Vergil been confirmed at $5? That would put him right about in line with SFV's DLC characters, wouldn't it? Or are they $6? In any case, I think you're right about that meaning there's no new campaign stuff--on the other hand, maybe there is and current-gen just isn't getting it.

Playable Lady/Trish would excite me a lot more, actually, but that's just me. One of my biggest (and only) critiques of DMCV was that both characters were underutilized and, I thought, quite lame. That said, I wouldn't bet on that being in the cards for this release, but if it happens I'll be real impressed. I don't think they intended to do a Special Edition for DMCV, so Vergil will probably be the most substantial feature. Still, that's a pretty darn good one.

I think my complaint are more towards just DMC5 this time after all these years. If you think of it, DMC already had 3 games (including 4SE) directed by Itsuno and there are substantial groundwork for this franchise already, and it was evident that large amount of assets from previous entries were being used in DMCV. Not to mention a lot of the existing moves for Vergil were already built just for his boss fight in DMCV. I have no doubt probably 70-80% of his moves from the DLC will be from what we have seen in M19 and M20 already (or along with some from 4SE). If it's an entirely new built character from ground up, I can totally justify for the extra DLC. I mean if you look at Bayonetta 2, at least Rodin and Balder were unlockable. Though they don't let you use them in the campaign, at least they are available for the tag climax (I guess why they didn't want to put them into the campaign to screw up the cutscenes since they aren't a basic re-skin). Also, co-op tag climax. And Bayonetta 2 was already from 7 years ago? To me, Capcom or Itsuno and team don't seem to be stepping up the game with a few extra steps all these years. It might be a smarter business practice just to single Vergil out so that they can sell that to the players as a separate DLC or SE later, but in terms of player experience I feel like this needs to be changed.

Btw Vergil will come as DLC at 499 yen + tax for PS4/XB/PC later so yeah I guess that's about $5 USD

17DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:19 am

Nadster


A-Rank
Reading off of this, I don't think I can really add anything to this topic. I just watched the trailer and I feel concerned.

18DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:14 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
@invisigoth1013 wrote:

I think my complaint are more towards just DMC5 this time after all these years. If you think of it, DMC already had 3 games (including 4SE) directed by Itsuno and there are substantial groundwork for this franchise already, and it was evident that large amount of assets from previous entries were being used in DMCV.

Is that true? Aside from some of the legacy UI sound effects, I didn't notice anything that seemed recycled. It's a new engine with new character models, as far as I know. Certainly some of the ideas were pre-established, but I'm wary of underestimating the amount of labor and money that goes into even just retooling an existing NPC for play throughout the game.

Still, DMCV:SE looks more akin to 3SE than 4SE, in that it's much easier to justify for people who missed Vanilla than as a double-dip. At least the Vergil DLC option is available this time, but the inability to buy the other new features piecemeal is a little appalling, especially on PC where it's definitely not a technical limitation thing. That might be feedback worth gently sending Capcom's way. Didn't do any good with DmC:DE, but I think there's way more internal investment in the mainline series, plus these are different times.

>Rodin and Balder
I never knew that! Are they any good? I didn't get very far in Bayo 2, but one day I will. Just couldn't be bothered to turn on the Wii U, which for some reason never worked with my sound system. I do remember being frustrated that Bayo 2 did coop before DMC--friends and I had been talking about a coop Bloody Palace and the idea of "competitive coop" (snatching each other's kills etc.) for years.

>Capcom or Itsuno and team don't seem to be stepping up the game
This I agree with--DMCV feels very much like DMC3 and 4 in terms of scope and feature set. It's like this was a "get back on track" game after the previous decade's derailment. It does seem like by now they should be doing true DLC campaigns, but I still think five bucks is totally reasonable for a new character in a game like this.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

19DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:05 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
In terms of recycled, I think I kind of get what Invisigoth means, though it isn't in the usual elements of recycled manner.

If you take it up front, Dante simply hasn't changed all that much since DMC3, which was only then a sped up more flashy iteration of his DMC1 self. Still has Stinger, the same two combos, same helmsplitter and high time. The Styles and weapon switching were the big changes that really elevated DMC3 to its own beast. But DMC4 was just DMC3 Dante with the styles quickly slapped to a button. A lot of elements and consequences weren't taken into consideration and imo Royal Guard and Trickster could've been their own dedicated button years ago.

Of course there are added deeper mechanics, but in terms of kit and raw ability, Dante has been quite static imo.

Nero is a stripped down Dante with a niche ability (REV) and grapple mechanic meant to hook in the God of War III crowd since GoWIII was on everyone's mind at the time. It was the game to beat according to Itsuno and Itagaki.

Trish was basically her DMC2 moveset with some bells and whisttles. Lady's moveset was a swap with Sengoku Basara iirc. Vergil was a boss-character that got changed into a character, took some moves from Dante and called it a day.

I'm saying it really cut and dry and there's a lot more layers to this argument, but I think you can kind of get what I mean.

> Rodin / Balder
They are online only which sucks but they are a ton of fun and play very differently too. Rodin especially who doesn't have a dodge, but a block. The whole co-op mode was done excellent, though I have to say Ninja Gaiden was ahead of the curve here with Sigma 2's multiplayer which was excellent (despite the lag). It really does work imo and should at least be an option imo. Of all the action games I feel Razor's Edge did it best strangely enough. A ton of co-op missions, but you can solo them if you wish. Nioh also has a great system for it post-patch.

> DMCV played it 'back on track'
Had the same feeling. The game was a smash hit so I really hope we'll get DMCVI that ups the ante, but I'm a tad afraid that the whole 'cuhrayzeh' is the new DMC. So less emphasis on cool and interesting foes and more emphasis on giant lumbering hurtboxes that attack once in a while while you sword-trick-sword your way around them.

We'll see!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

20DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:13 am

invisigoth1013

invisigoth1013
D-Rank
Yeah pretty much what Roy said was what I was thinking and meant. I have a strange feeling that what we see is probably what we get for 5SE. I even doubt they will give Vergil any new weapons at all (not even Force Edge or Beowulf something like that). Hopefully I will be wrong.

21DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:31 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
There was some new footage yesterday. Vergil did get some new moves so it doesn't seem like a complete rush job. But from the look of things this really "is it". We're getting Vergil with a single weapon, Raytracing on consoles and LDK mode.

The whole emphasis on graphics for DMC really confuses me, they already put in way too much effort in cloth and hairphysics and now Raytracing.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

22DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:47 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
There was something I read (I think it might have been on one of Capcom's blog things they do) that suggested Vergil was going to have some new mechanics and that the Concentration gauge was returning from DMC4SE. I suppose the new mechanics may just be the V transformation shown in the trailer, but hopefully there's more to it than that.

23DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:37 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I would hope so! Going by the gameplay shown he'll be playable in all stages so if that's true, I hope he has enough interesting toys. One thing that did make me wonder....will he have to fight Vergil...twice?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

24DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:59 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
*thinks back to red coat Vergil in DMC3SE*

I think it's safe to say we will be fighting Vergil twice... As Vergil. Imagine Capcom coding new bosses for Vergil - that'd require actual effort!

25DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:42 pm

invisigoth1013

invisigoth1013
D-Rank
Besides fighting Vergil twice, M14 will be a tedious boss rush too. You fight against Cavaliere, Artemis and Goliath as V because you are fighting them as Nero or Dante before. Now that Vergil is playable in all stages you probably have to fight most of the same bosses as Vergil, twice.
It also seems to me that V transformation was probably an ultimate move of V that was scrapped from the game at the beginning:

https://m.bilibili.com/video/av47850728

26DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:04 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
https://twitter.com/_In_Myself_/status/1323203509227978754?s=20

Some footage of Vergil using Beowulf as a weapon. So far it seems like a pretty decent copy/paste job from DMC4 by the looks of things sadly. That said, at least there's more than one weapon now!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

27DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
I'm glad he's got more than one weapon. Will he get Force Edge again too, I wonder?

I saw there was an update on SteamDB that shows there are 5 or 6 new DLCs in addition to Vergil confirmed for PC. I'd imagine some of these are shortcut unlocks for his costumes or moves or whatever, but I'd say there's a chance we might get Turbo Mode and LDK difficulty too. I think that'd make raytracing the only advantage of console SE over PC vanilla.

(Edit: it looks like Vergil has a Sin DT gauge too like Dante. Some people on Reddit think he only has 1 level of DT and the other gauge is for a doppelganger ability - I'm not sure why they think that though. Was that something in the SE reveal trailer?)

28DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:59 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhVzifBKuP0

Some more information. Sin DT is used for regular DT, while the regular meter is used for doppleganger. Otherwise he's the same as before in DMC4SE which is...both a win and a loss haha. No new content, but none taken away as we feared as well.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

29DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:23 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
I must have forgotten about his doppelganger ability being in the trailer then! I was wondering how the V transformation would work - looks a bit like that attack Dante has in his SDT where you input the command and you get a "cinematic" move. I'm glad it's not just swapping to V and playing as him, but a little disappointed that it's just one move.

He looks fun still but not much of a change from his DMC4 incarnation. This is pretty disappointing IMO given Dante and Nero got tons of new stuff and we got a whole new character in V too (although I feel like I have an aneurysm trying to play as him). I know he's a $5 DLC but I could only see a few new abilities there.

Edit: Looks like the doppelganger can be controlled somewhat! Interesting... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El6PjJTX0AAEgNh?format=jpg&name=large

Edit 2: ... and something akin to Royal Guard. https://i.redd.it/btz1tq1qn1x51.png

30DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:48 am

5does


C-Rank
Vergil has been a "I win" character in every game he's been in(even UMVC3), it gets.... kind of boring? Like When you go back to stuff like NG into NGB, it was an amazing upgrade because they added lots of challenges and made the game way, way harder.

DMC5SE is like, here you go: the same old mobs from the game that were already a pushover against Dante SinDT and Faust and here's his overpowered Twin with even more anime moves.

Doppel being stolen away from Dante was pretty much a given ever since early DMC5 footage when SBK pointed out that Quicksilver had been handed down to Nero.

31DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:34 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I think we really have to ignore difficulty when it comes to DMC's future. The series seems far more focused towards style and memes at this point i.e. the constant "now I'm motivated".

Do feel that his design is a tad weird, also in DMC4:SE, with his emphasis on cool looking moves. Imo DMC's style was always about looking cool yourself, not through the moves that look beastly like those screenclearing monster moves.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

32DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:56 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
I've just finished a replay of DMC5 on Normal difficulty now I've got the PC version (I wanted to try the coop mod with a friend and had to unlock all the moves again) and it was harder than I remembered. I'd forgotten almost all my muscle memory for combos, enemy knowledge etc. The last time I played I was in the middle of a DMD run on PS4, having breezed through Hard mode. It was a bit frustrating to be honest. You could say I felt... demotivated.

The fanbase is certainly more concerned about memes. The subreddit is an absolute state. I still check it from time to time but was massively disappointed when I found it, hoping it'd be a hub of discussion for mechanics and strategies. Maybe not at a high level, but everybody is trying to beat the game on some difficulty or other, right? On any given day you can expect it to be packed with memes and fan art. At least the recent Vergil news has sparked a bit of gameplay-related discussion there.

I always wanted to get better at DMC, but I question if I still feel that way following my recent playthrough. I think the mechanics and variety are excellent, but when I think to myself "which enemies are fun to fight?"... I'm really not sure which ones are. There's a comment above from Raeng about enemies being "lumbering hurtboxes" and I'd never thought about them that way before, but there's definitely some truth to that. I might just be a bit sour because I was playing pretty poorly, but I didn't enjoy myself nearly as much as I thought I would. I absolutely HATED V's sections, and in my previous two playthroughs (on Normal and Hard) I didn't mind them - might have even gone as far as saying I liked his sections as a little pace breaker. Having said that, I stopped my DMD run because of V. Some of the tankier enemies are just the opposite of fun as him.

I know the game sold well but I'm not sure what a DMC6 would look like. The story in 5 is dreadful, as is the writing (not that it really matters), and despite being a decent length it still somehow manages to feel rushed and unfinished. It almost feels like an "incomplete" game is part of DMCs identity at this point.

33DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:23 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
If you want to get good at a Devil May Cry game, go for the third game I'd say. It has a lot of interesting enemies that go beyond 'lumbering hurtbox', fun weapons that are diverse and different enough, and the weapon-limit restriction breeds creativity imo. Also has some of the better bosses in the series.

> story and writing
Which takes me aback since the story in the third game is honestly really decent for an action-game. Hell, for a game in general. A solid plot about brotherly rivalry, well done honestly.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

34DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:40 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Agreed, 3 does have a good story. It's not complicated but they know exactly what they wanted to do with it, and it's simplicity works. The thing about 5 that baffled me is that Vergil brought on this enormous, world-ending threat and then after his reveal you fight him a couple of times and then it's all (somewhat-)happy families and all is forgiven. In the context of the story the guy is a total dick, and he only agrees to right his wrongs because he wants to be able to fight Dante again. He's the cool bad guy, sure, but you see where he's coming from in DMC3, whereas in 5 his actions make him completely unlikeable, but they know we all like him from 3 so it's fine.

Good thing stories in action games don't set the bar too high anyway, hey? Razz

35DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:52 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
My biggest gripe is exactly that, and that Dante and Vergil seem to have suddenly gotten a Goku/Vegeta-esque relationship where it's all martial-rivalry, especially the 'keeping score' and 'fighting for eternity in the underworld' stuff near the end. Just seems off to me.

I always saw them as two parties that wanted the same thing but did it through two different extremes, which I felt was pretty cool. But now Vergil is just straight up a powerhungry villain which really makes me do a double take.

> stories in action games
God of War 1 still takes the cake for me, amazing how well that story is told and how many little details there are. MGR:R also had some cool moments. Vanquish gets bonus points for having the USA as the villain which is pretty daring.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

36DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:08 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Yeah, the keeping score thing seems off, especially when you count all the boss battles against Vergil (and Nelo Angelo) across the games. Vergil has barely won any of their fights...

It pains me (but also makes me laugh) just how much Nero gets worked up over being called "dead weight" - as if it is SPECIFICALLY the ONE thing he doesn't want to be called. It's literally like his world has ended. He gets called it in the prologue and he's still upset about it at the end of Mission 16.

I don't know about anyone else but I think Dante's writing is really boring in 5. I know it's part of his character that he's getting old but he certainly doesn't fight like he's old. Most of his lines have this sort of tired delivery, which might well be intentional. He doesn't have much of a personality in this game - a lot of his lines are variations of "welp, the clock's ticking, I better go do this". I think back to all the boss taunting he does in 3, his interactions with Lady, him "breaking character" and getting serious with Vergil in the finale. That stuff feels toned down or even absent in 5.

37DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:57 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Dante's character really took a dive into another direction which we sort of saw happening in DMC4. DMC3's Dante worked for me since he was young and cocky, but through the adventure we saw him grow into the man he was in DMC1. You see him get serious once it gets personal, while he's still very sure of his abilities, enough at least to taunt bosses like Cerberus.

In DMC4 he, probably due to DMC3's succes, suddenly reverted to his childish persona upped to 11. He doesn't have a care in the world and the entire game notes just how in controle he is. On the one hand that is pretty fun, to have a protagonist so powerful nothing really stands a chance. So I kind of accepted it there.

In DMCV though, especially with him getting his ass kicked so badly numerous times...it feels really off to see him so disinterested.

I know I'm going in too deep for a videogame story, but I don't know. Dante in DMCV feels like a different person for all intents and purposes. He's not the person who cried when he thought he'd lost his brother. Nor the person that felt remorse of Trish's death or crawled from the depths of the underworld after slaying Argosax.

> Nero the Zero
I honestly still have no clue what they're aiming for with his character at this point.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

38DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:45 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Just watched an early playthrough of DMCVSE's Vergil 'campaign'. They put in a bit more effort than I originally anticipated. Massive spoilers ahead of course.

Spoiler:
Dante is a legit boss fight in Mission 19, and Mission 20 is fighting him again but this time with SDT and some other options. Otherwise it is just the regular campaign. But hey, a new boss fight!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

39DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:52 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Regarding the spoiler - that's actually great news. Glad they've put in at least a bit more effort than expected. I wonder if this is classed as a separate bit of "content" than the Vergil character himself - will PC get the Vergil campaign? If not, can we only use him in Bloody Palace? I'm still keeping my expectations in check and preparing for the worst.

40DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:27 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Spoilers for SE content:

Spoiler:
The Dante fight actually looks really cool - he's basically got his full arsenal of weapons, attacks and styles too. I can't help but feel disappointed they didn't do a Nero fight for Mission 20 seeing as, you know...that's actually what happens. I don't think there's enough content to justify paying the launch price (the raytracing option doesn't really add that much IMO), but Capcom have done more than I expected here.

I watched Digital Foundry's videos on SE, it looks like you can't use raytracing on LDK or Turbo mode, even at 1080p. I was expecting a little better, to be honest.

41DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
So anyone play this or the Vergil DLC yet?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

42DMC5 Special Edition Empty Re: DMC5 Special Edition on Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:18 pm

Lacquerware

Lacquerware
D-Rank
I played it for most of the day yesterday. Really enjoying it! Vergil was never my favorite since it's specifically the mix of sword and guns that drew me to this series, but I have to admit I'm having a blast. I'm also getting mostly S ranks on Son of Sparda, which is certainly better than I performed with V or Dante. Is Vergil stronger, or am I just a year wiser?

I've found that liberal use of the SDT is very helpful for both gaining Style rank and living to tell about it, and the game is pretty generous about letting you do multiple "super" moves per trigger, provided you have high Concentration.

I'm finding Concentration itself a stingier mechanic than it was in 4SE, but maybe it's just how I'm playing. Be careful not to whiff attacks or you'll find yourself without Concentration even when you have a SSS going. And then you can't do his coolest moves.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I'm playing the Vergil DLC on a base PS4.

https://lacquerware.tumblr.com

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