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101Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:06 am


Here’s some tips for Extreme. Not sure if any of this I’ve said already, but here’s what I jotted down in the last couple hours:

-Decoy is useful for Leopards due to their ranged guard breaker and high health.
-Spiders have defense against grabs, and will bounce off of surfaces when thrown. Better to grab and use as a weapon.
-Spiders shields don’t always generate when they spawn, can gimp their spawn with phalanx.
-A quick phalanx burst will stop a mummyhead from starting up its laser, and you can go in for a grab.
-The base projectile is a good counterhit if you don’t have meter, works for countering leopards during their projectiles or after a melee.
-Guarding just outside a raptor’s grab range will usually cause them to whiff a grab or two handed attack which leaves them open.
-Decoy is maybe the best way to escape pressure from a pack of mummyheads. Note that the meter spent is the decoy’s health, so it won’t survive longer than a second.
-F Mines kill cellars in one hit(only a factor on NG+).
-Geyser works wonders for incoming clods, the beads will suction right to them.

>MGS3 atmosphere

I remember when it first came out, I was mesmerized. The birds chirping, the sound effects, seeing the animals crawl around, and that fucking caution music. I couldn’t believe what I was playing.

>TPS camera added in Subsistence

I go back and forth between it and the classic camera. Some areas work better with the classic, and some I like with the TPS camera.

102Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:16 am


@Infinity_Divide wrote:Some of the bosses are also about the best I’ve ever seen.

Totally agree! I don't want to go into too many details on this considering I don't know how much Roy already knows about the game, but yeah. One of the greatest selection of bosses in the medium (and my #1 personal favorite boss fight, too). Hard to believe TPP professes to belong to the same series.

@Birdman wrote:Do you guys like the TPS camera added in Subsistance?

Yeah, the additional visibility it provides certainly helps a lot in many instances. Vanilla MGS3 has a few issues here and there when it comes to the line of sight of some of the off-screen guards that can make things a bit frustrating, for example. It's unfortunately less consistent than the first two games in that specific regard.

With that said, the original camera angle benefits the aesthetic presentation of some of the areas and some of the semi-hidden item placements depend on it as well, so I like to have to option to switch back-and-forth between the two camera systems at will.

103Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:17 am


Don't worry too much about MGS3 spoilers, I watched a few playthroughs of it back in the day so that's not too much of an issue.

> ZoE2
Running out of ideas for Inhert. Every pro I see playing him just spams Decoy and nukes him, but he keeps dodging me even with Decoy active, how does this fight work? It's the only one I haven't fully 'uncovered'.

> bullseye
Been watching him play ZOE2 for a bit, guy really is a genius runner. Uses Geyser on the Cellar so that everything that comes out is Geysered, and grabs them immediately to use them to kill the cellar and Geyser everything that comes out. Really smart. He plays on PS2 though and 'dat framerate'...

> spiders
Found Phalanx to be a good way to beat them while they jump yeah, especially in that defence mission. Still don't know how those missions work though, probably just have to memorize the spawns.

> MGS3
What version would be the best on current machines? The Xbox One X version?

104Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:44 am


@Royta/Raeng wrote:> MGS3
What version would be the best on current machines? The Xbox One X version?

The HD versions are fine, generally. The conversion is very clean (in terms of glitches / performance), and the added native widescreen works just fine. Although they are missing some content (they removed two extra modes and at least one really cool campaign element).

One other thing, the game's controls were originally designed around the DS2' analogue button sensitivities (remember those?). On the 360 version they had to invent workarounds to emulate the same functionalities with additional stick button presses and the like, which is a bit weird to me. I assume the XBO version would be the exact same in that regard. I'd recommend playing one of the Sony platform versions if you care about that.

So I'd say the best possible versions would be either the HD Edition on PS3 (for the best display on a modern TV), or Subsistence (!) on PS2 (for the maximum amount of original content).

Curious to see what Infinity thinks! :D

105Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:54 am


Yeah did some digging, Ape Escape, the dream game and boss rush are absent from what I see. Bad that they removed it! But I can live with it for now. Not planning on getting the game currently, but it's good to know what my options are. My PS3 is out of the question as it is basically dying sadly. So it's either PS2 or X1.

106Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:02 pm


Regarrding ZOE2, finished Very Hard and now doing Super Hard - it's no joke damn. Enemies hit like a truck. Do feel that the game has a few 'traps' now which isn't too my liking. One of my strats was throwing homing lasers to force enemies to shield so that I could grab them while their shield was up. But now all of a sudden doing this gets me slapped in the face haha. Then thought to damage one a bit so the mummy will heal him, the mummy does so, I go over to grab him mid-healing animation and he just cancels it into the yellow laser and I die. What the hell hahah!

At one point I was really wonder how I could even damage these guys without just homing lasers for 60 minutes. Curious to see how this will evolve. Watched some high level play and the first chapters were basically spawn camping with the Spirit Bomb. Hm.

Makes me wonder how Extreme will be haha!

Also, any tips for the 'protect the allies' missions? The first one is easy but the last one really hurt me.

107Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:34 am


>MGS3 version

It’s hard to say because while the removed content wasn’t all great(Ape escape, guy savage), some of it is sorely missed(boss rush and secret theater). So I would normally tell people to play the PS2 version, but it doesn’t run too well. It’s not terrible, but after playing the HD version so much going back to the PS2 version feels rough in some spots. I would say just get the HD version, as the extras aren’t enough to be game-breaking to most players. 

>game has a few traps 

What do you mean?

>mummy cancelling healing and lasers you

Hmm, not sure what’s going on with this, this works really well for me on Extreme. Are you maybe not going soon enough into the animation?

>wondering how to damage them without homing lasers 

Mummyheads? I definitely recommend grabbing an object or enemy to use against them early on. You can always dash around and wait for the laser to fade and then go in aggressively(dashing left and right back forth let’s you iframe through it pretty effortlessly). I’m assuming you’re still early, but yeah, it can seem kind of annoying until you get some subweapons. 

>protect the allies missions 

Lot of homing missiles and decoy is my advice haha. Not good at those sections honestly.

108Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:49 pm


Think it was more me being a bitch haha. Got more into the run, did some toying around in Mission Mode and just did the Canyon on Super Hard almost no-damage. Got trapped in the final generator room, but other than that creamed the entire section. Felt so good using Geyser, Gauntlet, using enemies as weapons, the poles etc smartly. Fantastic game.

Also finished the Boss Collection Rush within the time (30 seconds left...). Auuman Anubis didn't want to play ball, otherwise wrecked them. Interesting mode. Also did Auuman Anubis with Damaged Jehuty which was no joke... since you don't have ranged weapons you need to get up close and personal to stop his healing, really risky.

109Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:48 pm


Beat Super Hard. Damn. This game is fun haha. Really need a better strategy for the final defend mission. I saw Bullseye get an SS rank on it but honestly the way he does it is so annoying I'd rather get a C rank.

110Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:19 pm


Very nice, now it’s time for the real thing! What was your attack plan for the cellars at Mars Canyon? Have you messed around with charging up objects yet? I need to actually play through all the missions and extras.

>SS rank on final defend mission 

How does he do it?

111Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:28 pm


For Mars Cellar I focused on killing the enemies first slowly using grabs and gauntlet. Then I spammed Geyser on the Cellar until something came out of it, grabbed the enemy who was Geysered and attacked the Cellar with it. Because of this every enemy that came out of the Cellar also immediately was Geysered.

Haven't really used charged up weapons, sometimes for a pole but I tend to use my meter for other things. Decoy into Maxed Spirit Bomb is really cool too. Homing Missiles don't fuck around either.

> SS rank defend
He Geysers every LEV to stun them one by one, and when stunned brings them to the middle to create a concentrated army. When all the Levs are in the middle he goes ham with Homing Missiles and Halbert. But relocating the LEVS is just such a struggle with the lock-on imo.

EDIT: found this comment, didn't know about this "ignore the enemies, just focus on pick up all the LEVs to the central line first: use minimap to find damaged LEVs(red ones), push the L2(Lock on) and dont release it to avoid enemy Lock on, if there are many damaged LEVs on the same area use geyser on them to repair, and good luck"

112Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:07 pm


>using geyser on spawns 

That reminds me, I’ve never tested to see if throwing geyser on a cellar does anything, I’m assuming it doesn’t?

>Decoy into maxed spirit bombs 

The AOE on that thing is delightful.

>picks up LEVs and takes them to the middle 

Yeah that doesn’t sound too bad, as you noted you can get out of lock on holding L2. That is one gripe I have with the game is its lock on, the game is just too hectic for how it was implemented imo. Sometimes I’ll go into fights and take lock on off so I’m not rushing the wrong enemy. This is why I don’t think every game needs a manual lock on, it can be difficult to implement doing it the conventional way. 

May try to do a segmented no damage run, and restrict certain subweapons. Can’t think of any section that wouldn’t be possible. All enemy bullets are still projectiles(based KojiPro) and can be blocked anyway. Grabs and lasers are obviously all avoidable. Stage hazards are a breeze. Other long range attacks shouldn’t pose a threat even with other enemies(Cyclops shockwave, Narita charge). Would probably take out Decoy so there’s no panic button.

EDIT: Just found an Extreme no damage run, so it’s obviously possible haha. Will definitely try this soon.

113Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:49 pm


Interested in the No Damage run, got a link for me?

> Canyon
Just got past it on Extreme, the first section that is. It was pretty doable outside of the Cellar. Got clobbered fast. Ended up forgoing my previous strat and just going in with a charged pillar and smashing everything.

> No Damage
Vic Viper's spiral attack is a tad annoying to dodge, and the defence mission might take a few retries, but other than that it should be very possible. Not going to attempt it myself, I hate No Damage runs haha. After this Extreme run I'll probably do another, then clean up some unlockables and try Damaged Jehuty on Hard or something.

114Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:29 pm


Hmm, I think the channel I saw is just bosses, not the entire run. Found an SS Extreme playthrough but it’s not No Damage. I always forget you can Geyser Vic viper. 

>charged pillar

A man of culture. Those things clean up fast. The tracking on the objects is insane. 

>hate no damage runs 

I’m usually not a fan of them either, but I think this game was kind of built for it, plus it’s so short it shouldn’t be too much of an issue with some practice.

>damaged Jehuty on hard 

You’ll have to record your progress, never gave DJ a serious chance.

115Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:26 pm


>I hate No Damage runs
Shut it.

116Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:47 pm


This was on sale on PSN so picked up today based on everyone’s recommendations here! Look forward to trying it out soon once I finish Doom Eternal.

117Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:17 am


Awesome! Let us know what you think!

118Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:47 am


> no damage runs
In the games I play I feel it doesn't promote a good playstyle. You have to play far too carefully. I prefer playing better while getting hit, than playing badly and not getting hit. Your healthbar isn't a metric for how good you're playing.

Nice man, have fun! The game is quite short so excellent for replays, hope you enjoy it!

119Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:00 am


Might be the case for some games where there's a boring, highly exploitable tactic you repeat over and over and it's the only way to succeed.

120Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:44 am


Even then, it always promotes too careful of a playstyle for me. Even in games like Batman, DMC, Bayonetta where it's a lot easier to go no-damage thanks to the tools and options available. Just feels it makes me play too careful, I prefer going ham and take risks. What game would you say a no-damage run is fun in?

121Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:05 am


For me, Chaos Legion. It's super straightforward. There are instances where you can do something to reduce risk like sniper generators with Malice but I don't see any problem with that and it's not all the time.

Still take those. I'll always go for counter hits instead of waiting for 100% safe hit opportunities.

I can't think of many where I don't have fun trying and figuring out ways to not take damage. Even if I have to play more carefully it's fine.

In Knack 2 I can switch to Shooter Knack and soften up enemies or kill them from a distance. I find that super fun.

I'm not always referring to a run specifically, rather just the idea of trying not to be hit in general because outside of specific tactics why would you?

122Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:00 pm


Depends on the game, really.

I love going for no-damage in DMC and Bayonetta, and I think it provides the best possible experience. Paying attention to the enemies' carefully telegraphed attacks and positioning yourself to punish them as effectively as possible feels like an integral (and intended!) part of the combat puzzle to me. Same can be said about MGR.

In NGB or GoW, I don't think it makes a lot of sense. Trading hits and being on the defensive is already a pillar of the combat but the games don't feel designed around the idea of dodging / blocking absolutely everything the enemies throw at you. Especially GoW has some cheap hits.

NG2, forget it. That would really force you into a completely boring and sterile anti-fun playstyle.

123Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:19 pm


>In NGB or GoW, I don’t think it makes a lot of sense 

Hmm, I don’t know. Kratos’ block is pretty damn good, and his roll has some serious distance. I think since the game lacks consumable healing items it expects you to take less hits, to an extent.

124Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:53 pm


I've heard Bayonetta come up in regards to this as well, but I don't think there has been a single no-damage run done for that game if my memory serves? Not a 'true' no-damage that is, aka no butterfly. Any and all no-damage runs I've found use that with some single boss exceptions of course. It's no doubt possible without it, just takes an insane amount of patience and retries. If there has been, please show me, I've been looking for a good run of the game.

That's one thing that doesn't appeal to me in the case of No-damage, the retries. You're constantly just retrying and retrying until you get that one result. I prefer just playing and when I get no-damage by chance I go "fuck yeah".

MGR:R is a weird one. I've probably done the most runs on that game out of anyone and if you don't want to hold back, you can no-damage that game easily thanks to the brokenness of some moves and weapons. Doing a NUR no-damage is no joke though. Fun game. Really fun!

That's personal preference though. I know some players really get a kick out of the reverse. GFD being one of them, same with Bick Benedict (is he still around?).

> God of War
Never really thought about it. Search results are muddled thanks to GoW2018 (of course, thanks Sony). I'm a bit in the middle I'd say. I can see both camps being true.

125Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm


On topic by the way:

Extreme is ... weird for me. Just beat Nephis, but the whole fight was really different and I'm not sure how to do the fight now. Normally you'd grab a shield and block her rush, but now before she does her rush she shoots projectiles that break your shield, even when buffed. How are you supposed to attack her? I got lucky with a Gauntlet loop against the wall, otherwise...I'd have no clue how to deal with her. How do you do the fight without shields?

126Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:40 pm


Well, I think there are some pretty clear differences in how these games handle damage output in the first place.

In the Capcom-inspired games (DMC & most Platinum games), damage is super-straightforward. All enemy attacks have startup, active and recovery frames. They telegraph their hit, try to hit you and then leave themselves open to a counterattack. If you get hit, you lose a substantial amount of your health and you're supposed to learn from that and avoid that attack next time. But there's not really such a thing as chip damage, for the most part. Every bit of damage in DMC or DMC3 can be nullified by jumping at the right time. Every bit of damage in Bayo can be nullified by dodging (or using the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa). That's not to say there aren't any rough spots or poorly designed encounters (because there are), but at least conceptually it's supposed to be your fault when you get hit.

And that's why most or all of these games have systems in place to reward no damage chapters (like SS ranks / Pure Platinum medals and the like): it's very much baked into the core fundamentals of the combat. I would argue that specific design philosophy goes right back to the old-school RE games that inspired DMC. When you get hit in RE it takes a big chunk of your health away but you still have the opportunity to prevent it beforehand and walk away from it afterwards. In RE4, the combat basically soft-resets whenever you take a hit and every single bit of damage in the game is preventable. That same RE DNA is still there even in DMC5 or most recent P* action games.

@Roy: Well I didn't do the whole game in one go because that sounds like madness and I didn't record it at the time, but I grabbed Pure Platinum medals on every chapter in Bayonetta 2 a few years ago (I didn't use Pulley's Butterfly). In order to do that, I had to learn how to dodge / avoid every single attack in the game, so that's definitely feasible.

NGB and GoW, as much as I love them, have different priorities and leave a lot more room for chip damage as a result of that.

In NGB, you can mitigate or nullify the incendiary shuriken explosion damage entirely by blocking or i-frame rolling, but the initial impact already takes a tiny bit of health away and is almost impossible to dodge on reaction. The commandos like to stand back and cause borderline unavoidable chip damage by shooting at you with their pistols or grab you out of your block even when you are defending yourself from another enemy's attacks, same as the cat fiends. You can sometimes get hit by the fire powerup animation of the berserkers even though you couldn't realistically get out of the way in time, etc... I absolutely adore NGB, but I find it silly to imagine playing the game in a way as to avoid every single point of damage coming from what I would call "secondary" sources.

GoW's enemy AI can be a bit unfair when fighting against multiple enemies. Very common to get swept / grabbed out of your block, not to mention the damage taken when using Rage of the Titans, for example. Even with Hyper-Armor and Damage Reduction, you still take hits.

NB: Keep in mind I'm not talking about what "can" be done in theory, because a large part of these challenge runs is to find creative and often unintended ways to bypass specific obstacles, like you guys were talking about in the TEW thread. I'm talking about the type of experience intended by the developers and the way these games have been designed and balanced. I think there's a pretty clear difference of priorities there.

127Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:47 am


Interesting, and I agree. I think mostly the reason I don't care for no-damage is also because the games I play tend to be more crazy in terms of how you take damage. The only game I no-damaged was RE4 which seems built more with it in mind.

Regarding Bayonetta, I was mostly aiming towards the first title. I've been looking for a PP run that doesn't use the butterfly but tend to come up a negative. Might because most players want the fallback and not restart. Would've been interesting if PP'd runs would have a little butterfly icon next to them if done in such a way or that they do count as 'getting hit' in some respects - though that would make the whole item useless you could argue.

Do think it's interesting that DMC always strives for a success in a single run, while Bayonetta allows (massive) checkpoint abuse. Don't think a single-segment per chapter has been done, PP that is.

> can be done theoretically

Agreed. I still, as a result, dislike the No-damage run of NGII. Not only does that latest runner not even like the game, it really gives a bad idea on how to enjoy the game. Lots of players are now pointing towards that video as proof "the best player even hates it, just look how you have to play to avoid damage".

On topic: beat the Canyon and found a better strat for Nephis. Just got an SS rank on the first defence mission by pure luck, seems Gauntlet is the way to go there. Since they are walkers, if you gauntlet them from above they die in a single hit thanks to the collision damage. Also wrecked the train-segment, mostly used Gauntlet again to slam enemies into walls, but also used a spawn-camped spiritbomb when enemies spawned in. Works like a charm.

128Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:29 pm


Boggles my mind watching videos of people getting the highest ranks on the highest difficulties of action games. I only managed to beat the top difficulty of Bayo 2 by cheesing it with a load of health lollipops (I didn't use the other colours, that would have been a step too far Razz)!

I think I'd agree with KSub and Roy and add that I personally don't particularly enjoy them, although I do have an appreciation for games that are designed to accommodate it. Urban Reign doesn't really cater to no damage runs as some grab reversals that enemies can perform will damage you, so you'd have to minimise the number of grabs you use which would certainly be less fun. The enemies behave more like fighting game characters than action game enemies in the sense that they have most of the same abilities as the player and they don't have obvious tells/wind-ups for the majority of their attacks. No damage definitely is possible, though, albeit difficult (and probably frustrating).

On topic: I love how similar the HUD is in this game to MGS2, which I have a lot of nostalgia for. Combat looks really fun too. I got the PS4 version for Christmas, I think I might play it next after RE4. I finally finished Spider-Man last night, so I might start RE4 today.

129Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:50 pm


>not only does the latest runner not even like the game 

Who’s that?

>Gauntlet on first defense mission

That’s usually what I do as well. It’s funny because ADA recommends Geyser I think, which I don’t understand since those enemies aren’t hard to get a hold of.

>train segment

Anytime you can get a spirit bomb in is a good time. I’ve been doing more testing to see if the vacuum effect is truly a thing, it doesn’t seem consistent 100% of the time but there’s definitely something to it.

>Urban Reign

That game doesn’t have iframes right?

>HUD similar time MGS2

He’ll yeah. I find that the whole visual style is like MGS2, especially from Arsenal Gear.

130Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:58 pm


Fun fact, you can destroy your spirit bomb by playing tennis with the lock-on. When you fire it and you switch targets it changes direction to that target. If you rapidly swap it gets smaller and then vanishes after a bit if it doesn't hit a target. Useless, but fun.

> runner doesn't like NGII
Godfatherdictator. While tense, most of the post commentary is just ripping about how bad the game is and not understanding what makes its combat fun. But then you always get the comments "LOL DEN U DO NO DMG LOL", and you know any discussion is out the window. Guy's a great player, just wish he'd stick to games he does enjoy.

> recommend using Geyser
Found out you can actually talk back to Ada at some points, even got a trophy out of it. Such a weird pointless mechanic.

> Greg starting RE4
Please make a dedicated topic if you wish, would love to hear impressions.

131Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:19 am


I don't think I've ever played the other difficulties. I know I went through normal when I first played, but then skipped straight to extreme which was already unlocked.

132Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 04, 2020 1:45 am


I realized that Zero Shift is actually the best special in the game. Takes no meter, stuns/disorients every enemy in the arena, teleport behind any enemy, can fake it out and stay in place(can stun all enemies without moving). It’s like the Shinobi dash but completely dumb haha.

133Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 04, 2020 8:04 am


It's stupid good, but also a tad wonky in the Survival Missions. Apparently enemies can go to locations there that you cannot, so you sort of teleport into thin air close to them but out of range for an attack. Doing it against a mummyhead that get the idea haha!

I still think Homing Missile is the best in regular fights, it drains meter but you're generally looking at an OHKO the second you activate it which I find interesting.

Really have to finish my Extreme Run...

134Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue May 05, 2020 6:54 pm


Beat Extreme and then took revenge using JehutyV2 with all sub-weapons equipped, then finished off one last unlock on a Normal speedrun (55 minutes!). All in all, great game. Though I do call bullshit on Cloud's ability to attack and grab you even while Decoy is active haha.

Surprised on how well the game keeps it up despite you having all previous subweapons from the start on NG+. Doing a 3hitcombo canceled into an Fuck Mine actually works on most bosses, though Zero Shift sends Nephis into a seizure haha, her AI will first go to where you were, attack once and then suddenly be like "oh, you're there" and move back to you.

Thinking of doing another Extreme run, though I might finish up mission-mode first on and off.

Not sure what to think of Extreme though. A lot of the difficulty comes from 'ha, gotcha' moments. On all settings you can just dodge Anubis's homing shot, but now you cannot unless you are close. On all settings you can just use the shield against Viola to block her, on Extreme the last 10% has her fire shield-breakers. On all settings Zakat's super laser can be dodged to the left, on Extreme you have to dodge upwards. On the one hand, it's smart, makes you think differently and keeps the setting fresh. On the other hand it screws with your muscle memory and has previous difficulties be poor learning schools.

Did get an S-rank on a regular run finally, though the SS on Auman Crevice will elude me for my entire life I fear.

EDIT: watched a speedrun, pretty interesting stuff. Guy used Vector Cannon on Zakat to skip his second phase which is pretty cool. Shame the whole run was on super-ultra-omega-easy mode. Apparently there's a pattern to where Taper is, making it easier to find him, and he noted that swinging items unlocked actually increases their hitbox, which is pretty interesting.

135Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 06, 2020 10:12 pm


Some more notes. Got my SS rank on Easy (ha) and finally an A rank on extreme for that trophy, and now I have the platinum. I really am curious on how the ranking system works, apparently saves and continues factor into it in some degrees? I found one short note about it, that apparently the Brady Guide explains it, but I cannot find a PDF anywhere. Anyone?

Could only find this piece:

To get A rank, you have to have from "1-4" continues, A rank on Vascillia event, "1-19" saves and A rank of Crevice Melee Event. That will give you a 0 score that results in A rank!
SS Rank: 2.5 or greater
S rank: greater than 0 and smaller than 2.5
A rank: 0
B rank: greater than -1.5 and smaller than 0
C rank: smaller than -1.5
Hope this helps, I copied the information from Brady Games guide!

136Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri May 08, 2020 10:14 pm


Working towards the SS run now, trying to reduce the amount of saves I make where possible. So I did the whole Canyon without saving in a single go, wanted to see if I could pull that off. Most consider it one of the harder sections on Extreme, and it is. Thus I'm really happy about it haha!

137Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat May 09, 2020 3:45 pm


Sounds like you’re going pretty hard on this. I don’t even have the platinum yet, maybe I should do that. As for the ranking system, I have no idea how it works, never understood it. I wish it was more clear-cut like in MGS but those games have more elements to factor in to a rank.

>super-ultra-omega easy mode

Would it still work on higher difficulties?

138Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat May 09, 2020 5:20 pm


Yeah I'm really enjoying my time now that I finished my first Extreme run, so now I can relax more and work on perfecting my tactics. I don't think subweapon-less is possible on Extreme thanks to Viola 3 with the Clouds, though might still be doable.

> Platinum
It's pretty easy, just get an S and an A rank (any difficulty will do). EX mission collection is pretty interesting, some are in very strange locations.

NOTE: there's two hidden art galleries in the Hanger, pretty cool.

> super ultra omega easy tactics
Some do, some don't. He uses an infinite loop on Inherit, which I haven't tested yet on Extreme, would be cool if it works.

139Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat May 09, 2020 8:52 pm


>no subweapons not possible

It’s interesting to think that basically any mob in the game is fair game thanks to grabs/collisions and objects, not to mention every attack either being easily blocked or dodged 1v1. As for the Viola fight...I may practice it here soon to see if it’s doable. I’m currently working through sections to no-damage them.

>EX missions

Weird how there’s like 5 of them in the arena with Vic Viper haha.

>loops on extreme

I reckon they probably still work, I’ll have to test this too.

140Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat May 09, 2020 10:50 pm


Finally found the ranked requirements:

Rank Values
SS - 2.5
S - 0 - 2.4
A - 0
B - 0 - -2.4
C - -2.5 and down

Point Allocation

0 = 1
1-4 =0
5-9 = -0.5
10+ = -1

0 = 1
1-19 = 0
20-49 = -0.5
50+ = -1

Vascilia/Crevice Event (each counts separate of course)
SS = 1
S = 0.5
A = 0
B = -1
C = -2

Now for part 2 simply add up your total you need 2.5+ for SS so just add your totals

Continues - 7 = -0.5
Saves - 2 = 0
Vascilia - S = 0.5
Crevice - A = 0
Total for Rank - 0 = A

> no subs
That one aside, I'd be really curious to see some of the harder sections tackled with it.

> SS rank run
Reached the crusher rooms now, just have to get a good run for the first one, I know I can get a good run there, just have to play well. There's no metatron between the two sections which sucks.

> EX
A lot of them are in such weird locations and not spread around at all. The secret bosses are weird too. One can OHKO you even on Easy.

> loops on extreme
I wonder if Vector Cannon will still work on Zakat Phase 2. You have an idea on how to avoid that void he fires?

Last edited by Royta/Raeng on Tue May 26, 2020 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

141Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 11, 2020 2:46 am


Hot damn. Does the save rule apply to SS extreme as well? That sounds absolutely brutal having to do no-death and get SS ranks on the defense missions.

>no subs

Started it, currently at Vic Viper. Will be interesting to see how Mars Valley goes without Gauntlet(probably poorly). Grabbing a plate and ramming into cyclops’ is great when you don’t have your subweapons. Been knocking them into walls for that collision hitstun.

>no metatron between two crusher rooms

Probably the biggest endurance battle in the game.

>secret boss OHKO

Which one is that?

>avoid Zakat phase 2 void

No clue. Doubt Mummy can withstand it either.

142Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 11, 2020 9:03 am


> SS
You have to not die yeah, but you can 'quit to menu' to void deaths. The downside to this is that dying gives extra checkpoints, for instance saving when destroying one of the generators in the Canyon is voided if you quit the game and come back later. Getting an SS rank in the defense missions though. That's the hardest part.
I've done the first one, but the second one is really troublesome. Though with help of the only two runners to have done it, and some methods of my own, I am building a battleplan.

Basically what you do is you cull all the LEVs to the middle using Geyser and then grabbing them. The goal is to empty at least one side before the 'big wave' comes, as enemies that don't touch a LEV will exit the map immediately, culling enemy numbers. Then it's a matter of keeping the SOS'd LEVs alive and using Halbert to deal with the enemies. You can also use Geyser on a damaged LEV and grab him and then use him as a weapon while Vic heals them.

> Mars without Gauntlet
Shouldn't be too hard, I'd honestly miss Geyser there more. The Cellar rooms will be a problem though. Be sure to do the left-side first so you can Spiritbomb snipe the Mummys on the right side. Otherwise you'll get the 'commander' cutscene introduction and start right next to them. Learned that the hard way haha.

> secret boss OHKO
Naked Jehuty, he's hidden just before the final boss.

> Zakat Phase 2
Been derping around with him more, can't get a good setup for Phase 2. Even my Vector Canon setup isn't working (he flies down, deactivating it). Funnily enough he is still active when he 'dies' and you can be killed during this time period.

143Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 11, 2020 11:20 am


I'm glad to see you putting some effort into this game Roy.

Know that you've done well, and know that you have significantly reduced your gaming crimes.

144Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 11, 2020 7:12 pm


Some more SS attempts. Managed to snag an A rank, but lost a few LEVs. It's just such a hard fight to nail and you are somewhat reliant on RNG I feel as well. At every turn you're guessing:
- do I save this LEV or the other?
- do I immediately take him to the center, or do I use him to kill some enemies to gain meter?
- when none are in threat, do you move the closest to the middle or the farthest?
- when the big wave comes, do you stay at the front to tank the units, or do you go for support?

Generally speaking though you need to have your entire force at max strength and one entire section put to the center if you want to tank the 'big wave'. And even then, when you get to there, it's a struggle.

You're pulled in a billion directions. Mathmatically you should be able to still get an SS rank if you just get an S rank here.

Continues = 1
Saves = 0
Vascilia = 1
Crevice = 0.5
Total = 2.5 = SS

But I wouldn't be surprised that SS denies math and just flat-out requires an SS rank in all categories.

145Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue May 12, 2020 3:05 pm


Got to play a bit last night. Currently doing an Easy playthrough for rank, and WOW it is a joke. I obviously expected as much but to actually play it is just crazy to me. You can just go right up to enemies and do raw grabs all day. When you grab an enemy they’re instantly charged, and doing a quick throw does enough collision damage to kill almost anything. Cellars die from objects in 2-3 hits. Bosses can be looped super easily due to their low health. Meter management is non existent since you get so much meter back from killing(incredibly easy) enemies. Gotta say, it’s a fun power trip, and it actually makes me appreciate how crazy enemies get on higher settings.

Conversely, I’m also doing my Extreme no sub weapons run and just beat the mars valley. Did a lot of corner spirit bomb camping and long range object throw->mid-charge spirit bombs. For raptors I’ve got in the habit of blocking more, will block the majority of their strings and then dash away when they do their finisher and go back in for a grab. Got back into using enemies as shields and letting mummyheads do the killing for me. Also interesting to note that the shockwave move that the cyclops’ do can be dodged by strafing normally.

>managed to snag an A rank

Nice. I don’t know if I’ll be able to SS the LEV mission, there is just way too much going on and the number of things to keep track of is crazy. Like you said, way too many things to think about and one wrong decision could easily cost you the rank. Will definitely need to practice that section here soon.

Still think it’s crap that our saves are restricted. I guess with rest mode it’s not so bad though haha.

146Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue May 12, 2020 4:55 pm


Decided to call it quits on the SS-run, just not my thing. I'm going to finish the mission tomorrow and if I get an S, I'm fine with it. There's massive amounts of luck involved I feel, especially in how the LEVs behave or how the lock-on works for you. Had a really good run, but had to save one LEV. Even with Geyser equipped, Jehuty refused to lock on to the LEV. It's terrible. You feel so powerless, fighting the game like that. Lost the run because I couldn't save other LEVs in time due to spending 10+ seconds on that one.

Otherwise, it's okay. Respect to those that did it, I could not and will not waste more time on such a boring mission. I feel I'm starting to hate the game, which I shouldn't.

> mars valley without subs
Impressive! You're near Nephis, let me know how that fight goes!
For Raptors I usually do regular shots while flying towards them. That autocancels into a swordswing. Do two hits and then a grab, they can't avoid the grab due to shield-stun.

> Saves
19 should be more than enough, though I tend to go for the -0.5 I feel. That said, once again, screw the rank haha. It really gets out the worste in the game I feel (yes it broke me).

147Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue May 12, 2020 6:46 pm


I get what you mean. This is honestly why I don’t like going for rank/score in a lot of games, it frustrates me way more than simply trying to beat a really difficult section. It’s especially bad in a game where the basic gameplay loop is so ridiculously good, having a mission that drags it down.

>lock on problems

This is one of my only big issues with the game, the lock on just doesn’t cooperate sometimes, the game is way too frantic to get the right target sometimes when you need it. Can’t tell you how many times I want to lock on to a cellar but I’m too busy shuffling through the raptors and by the time I lock on to the cellar I’ve eaten a ton of damage.

I’ll post once I try the Nephtis battle, hoping this isn’t a run-killer. If I have success I’m going to stop the run and go upstairs and record a fresh run so I can upload it. I just worry about the crusher rooms, so many enemies and not a lot of breathing room...

>SS tank brings out the worst in the game

I’ve felt this for a long time about score in Mercs modes, it’s why I stopped playing them for score. Even going for PP in Bayo would frustrate the hell out of me when I would get hit at the end of a fight. Ranks and score don’t get along with me haha. The only game(s) I like going for the good ranks is MGS.

148Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 13, 2020 9:51 am


Yeah the ranks are really not forcing a fun playstyle here generally speaking. Though I admit that aiming for as little saves as possible is fun I must admit, but the second a rank is unobtainable without menu-exploits, I tend to already lose interest. I cannot imagine any player doing all of this in a single segment without dying. Just cannot imagine it.

I really am finding more and more that save-less runs per mission are my jam haha. Just love the tension.

> lock-on
I've been brainstorming about solutions since I'm me haha. I think what could work is that if you hold down the L2 button it turns into a cursor. Then when you let it go lock-on would snap to the nearest target. That's the only one that doesn't involve a slow-down lock-on.
Feel some prioritization also needs to be added. There's no reason on god's green earth to lock-on to those little swarms when there's 6 mummyheads chasing you down. Though you could say 'that's the point' of those foes, they mess with your lock-on, though I could say there's better ways to do that.

> Crusher room
You need a solid strat for the Clouds. If you can set them up you're pretty golden as the rest of the foes are pretty easy grab-meat. Might be worth it to retreat from time to time and let the crushers do the work for you. Is it possible to sink the battleships without the Vector Canon? I don't think so right?

That's pretty fun on Easy btw. You can stand opposite of the ship and face the laser headon with your own. Pretty fun! Also I did some strats there recently, apparently you can multi-kill the ships. If you're lucky you fly to the second one immediately and curve your shot so that you hit it, and the first ship, at once. Sweet!

> record
You can always link your PSN to Youtube and stream it. Youtube saves your stream, easy recording. It's how I recorded my TEWII runs.

149Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri May 15, 2020 11:05 am


> SS rank
So I managed to sneak it in, almost. 1 LEV died, but I decided to call it quits there regarding this run and have already finished my next one haha. I'll outline my strategy and setup below, maybe for future users, you never know. I might give it some more attempts down the line, but not right now:

The idea is that you get all the LEVs at the center, where they can huddle up and tank the final wave. This means your entire first 5 minutes should be spent clearing up all LEVs around the map. After those 5 minutes the 'big wave' will come and if not everyone is in the middle you can restart as the run is pretty much lost. The reason is that once the wave comes, they are like a hammer. If they touch a LEV, their entire section stays there. But if they do not touch a LEV, they will fly straight on through until they exit the map. Hence why you want them all in the middle, so that a solid 80% of the enemy forces just exit the map entirely.

Now the part where luck comes in are the following:
- enemies get reinformences at fixed intervalls but at random locations. You need to play into this. If you see an area getting reinforcements you need to get to that area asap and start evacuating those LEVs while also providing a target to those Unmanned Orbital Frames. I find that going in and using a quick round of Homing Missiles helps, but be mindful not to use them when LEVs are nearby, as they are also targetted by it. Ideally you want the reinforcements to come at the best locations where you were already evacuating while leaving certain sections alone. Pure luck.
- enemies will randomly give Metatron, Energy and Subenergy powerups when slain, even not by you. This means that in some runs you will be strapped for Energy, while in others you won't.
- LEV location plays a lot into the luck. Sometimes LEVs will get arrogant and charge ahead, other times they will stay together. If at times certain LEVs push to far forward (or worse, sideways and forward) it pretty much voids the run. You want them to stay together in a pool to tank the final run.
- You should always just save a single LEV at a time, even if there are 20 in SOS, don't heal them, just heal a single one and bring him to the middle, otherwise you won't make the 5 minute deadline. That said, you are at the mercy of RNG here whether or not the enemy leaves these SOS'd allies alone.

That's it. Have all those stars align, don't screw up, don't get hit and you might make it.

> Damaged Jehuty
Finished my Super Hard run with Damaged Jehuty in an afternoon. It isn't nearly as hard as I'd thought. The intro is by far the hardest and Nephis is by far the hardest boss since you have to take damage against her (you have no block or ranged weapons). What makes the run easy though is that, sadly, Jehuty has Infinite Meter in this version. So the second you get Geyser, let alone Gauntlet, it turns into a spam fest. Lategame was infinite Mummy paired with infinite Decoy into charged slashes. It was novel, but not that interesting sadly. Will attempt an Extreme run later, but I think it will end up being (very) similar.

EDIT: special mention should go to the final boss, which is a bitch with Damaged Jehuty since you can't really deal with his healing ability, so you have to let him heal a few times.

150Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 3 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat May 16, 2020 6:13 pm


Finished my Damaged Jehuty run on Extreme. It really wasn't noteworthy. Some notes regardless as I got a lot better in this run with Damaged Jehuty's traits:

- the intro section is by far the hardest. I skipped most of the ice fights. You don't need to use Spirit Bomb to get to Nephis. Had to use the cliffs for cover against her to lure her drones into suiciding, but had to tank some while luring her into charged slashes.
- used a ton of pillars as a weapon early on, the Cellars were especially annoying but I managed to deal with it.
- Thankfully you don't have to find Taper, since you can't shoot the game skips that segment and you can immediately escort him.
- Taper is nearly immortal now, you can pick him up and charge him up but since you have infinite meter you can just get him to full health constantly. Fights are over pretty fast since you have infinite Geyser.
- for the train you can best use gauntlet with comet against the enemies, but the train itself you use Phalanx while moving up and down to avoid enemy fire. Nukes the trains pretty hard.
- for the Nephis fight where you have to delete her AI, I used Decoy to lure her drones into a selfdestruct, fun that that works!
- in the city I basically spammed Halbert.
- the pillar room was a ton of Decoy usage with infinite halbert.
- just spammed Homing Missile in the Crevacce while farming XP. Got to level 12.
- For the final boss, I didn't notice last time but the game actually switches you back to Naked Jehuty there, so it's just a normal fight. Means I made my life harder for nothing last time around...

Overal still really sad that the game gives Damaged Jehuty infinite meter. Would've been a fun challenge run character.

I am considering switching to "Pro controls", or at least give them a try. You ever played that way @infinity_divide?

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