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151Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 18, 2020 3:09 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
>LEV battle

Good breakdown. It’s a pity that it really does seem to come down to luck and RNG, especially for a section that lasts as long as it does. The aforementioned lock on is at its worst here too.

>infinite meter

This is a disappointing aspect of all the suits, the unlimited meter just makes the whole thing mindless, instead of really making them different. Ver 2 and Naked Jehuty are so OP that you’re basically not even paying attention, even on Extreme. I know people in the action game circle don’t think a game needs to be balanced or whatever, but having 3 unblockable costumes that all make you braindead OP isn’t the way to do it.

>decoy and halberd spam

This is exactly what I do on my runs with the other costumes. The reality is that even grabs aren’t really worth doing when you have unlimited halberd and homing missiles(not to mention F mines...).

>pro controls

Yep, it’s how I’ve played for a while now. Not having the game pause while switching weapons will get you killed at first probably but they feel natural to me now, so I haven’t gone back.

152Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> Crevacce

Did a few more attempts, got to once again a single dead LEV and decided that was it for today haha. The RNG and luck just aren't my jam, especially since so much can go wrong. For instance one run was going flawless, I had good RNG with enemy spawns, LEVs were nice, lock-on was nice. Then I had to grab on last LEV to clear that side. I throw Geyser, I grab him. And the grab whiffs because there's an enemy nearby. I grab again. Whiff. Again. Whiff. Again. Grab the enemy by mistake. At this point the run is over haha.

> infinite meter
I don't mind power suits, but some variety would be nice. There's no reason the challenge-run suit should have infinite meter, keep that exclusive to Naked Jehuty. With all these things though I'd always note "give the suits the option for powerups". God of War really could learn from this as well imo, so many fun customes but most have such huge buffs they just aren't worth using unless you want an easier time at things.

> grabs
When you have a deathbeam and infinite OHKO missiles, why grab haha. I do find the tools interesting though and still can't find a single one that overpowers the rest barring Homing Missiles in the endgame (when you have V2 Jehuty's meter).

> pro controls
On the one hand that sounds great, but I really like the menu usage for whatever reason. Reminds me of NG perhaps?

> combat
Really wanted to do this, perhaps as a note for a future article. But what I really like is how in ZoE2 no fight is re-used. Every engagement is unique and has a theme, which makes the campaign go by lightning fast. I wanted to note them down:

Ice World

  • First fight is a generic tutorial fight to get (re)used to the controls.
  • Second fight is one against a sawrm to (re)learn the homing attacks.
  • Third fight is against both at once, like an exam, while also allowing you to practice lock-on. It is also the first fight that can be skipped and spawncamped.
  • Third fight is against two lone enemies but very enclosed
  • Fourth fight is the Nephis boss which includes parries, shield breaks, blocking projectiles and introduces the 'red marker' indicating when bosses are open.


Bahram Ship

  • First fight is an introduction to Spiders with an ambush (first ambush mid fight)
  • Second fight is against a lone cellar, introducing the spawns and also pillars as usable item
  • Third fight is against another cellar with the mummy. You start ambushed as well.
  • Fourth fight is the pillars-boss.
  • Anubis shows up, being a supposed to lose fight (only one in the game)
  • Then you have the first Cyclopse fight in a long hallway with another ambush near the end.
  • Then a Cellar, upping the difficulty with more Cyclopses and Mummies. Forcing you to learn how to multitask
  • Then the 'boss' Cellar with every enemy type up until now, all at once. Fantastic.
  • Then a puzzle encounter where you need to find Taper
  • Then an escort mission with Taper
  • This fight ends with the first fight against a 'commander' where you can experiment with Geyser since regular commanded units are hard to grab

Mars

  • First is a Narrita fight in a wide open space, allowing for lots of cover and smart positioning.
  • Then the boss (nothing special imo)
  • Then another encounter, now with Gauntlet and an optional 90 second timer. This is also one of the few open areas with a lot of EX tokens.
  • Canyon is an endurance round that heavily promotes close quarters combat and collisions as well as meter management
  • The boss is a puzzle
  • The second one is also a puzzle, but both also reward smart positioning and gauntlet use

City, Train, Powerplant

  • Your first protection mission where you have to protect the town
  • The train fight is your first and only real timed encounter where, unlike before, running out means dying.
  • The Viola boss is the last one and puts all her previous puzzle elements together
  • The Nephis boss is the original but with twist (have to parry)
  • You then get another escort quest, but instead of going horizontal (Taper) it is vertical with a pit of death at the bottom should she drop in it.

Secret City

  • First is a puzzle encounter where you need to listen to commands to navigate the arena, this is an introducion to the later Inherit boss where you need to listen to commands to survive. Fun concept.
  • The 'city' is the first and only open world area where you can explore and fight at your own leisure. There's even an optional Sub Weapon to find.
  • The pillars encounter is the final fight honestly, where you're given everything at once. Every enemy type, combat on all planes (horizontal and vertical), cellars at the bottom, long stretches, collision damage, crushers - it's all here. The only thing missing is a timer and an escort, but thankfully they weren't that sadistic.
  • Inheret is a boss following up on a previous concept as noted.
  • The second Anubis encounter is a twist on 'supposed to lose'. You have to deal a certain amount of damage. Already forcing players to learn his attacks a bit.

Sky

  • The battleships are a cool unique encounter, just lots of visual spectacle that heavily features the Vector Cannon.
  • Zakat is another puzzle boss (my favourite mind you).

Aumann

  • Crevacce is a combination of the protection mission, an escort mission and a combat scenario rolled into one.
  • The long hallway afterwards is the 'super area' where you're extremely powerful and can go on a power fantasy for a bit.
  • Anubis1 is a joke boss that allows you to feel out Zero Shift a bit and get some revenge.
  • Anubis 2 is a full on boss featuring Zero Shift
  • The Aumann level is a tutorial stage for Naked Jehuty so that you can feel out his strengths and abilities
  • The Viola fights are a power-fantasy fight, and the only one that feels a tad redundant. Though you could argue that before with V2 Jehuty you were easily killing regular enemies. And now you're OHKO'ing bossfights, which is another step up. Also allows for some farming before the final boss which is noteworthy.
  • Anubis 3 is the final boss


So yeah, no need to read it all haha, but I just find it super interesting that I could write out all the game's encounters and they are all unique in their own way. If I were to try that with any other game I'd come up short.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

153Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue May 19, 2020 12:11 am

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
>grab whiffs

That sucks. Think you’ll keep trying it?

>power suits

Oh don’t get me wrong, I’m all for unlockables and power trips as a NG+ reward, but having infinite meter is basically God Mode in this game, and when all three suits have it, there doesn’t feel like a lot of variation. It would be nice if these suits would be tailored more to certain play styles rather than just being braindead OP.

>all the tools interesting

This game has by far my favorite set of sub weapons I’ve ever seen, and it’s just lovely how well most work with the grab system. I think the number of them and their usefulness is just incredible.

>combat breakdown

Great stuff man! Yeah the really short length and fast pace really push the variety to the forefront here I feel. Glad you pointed in some spots about the spaces/level design, because i think the game does a great job of creating nice arenas while still being mostly empty. As in, they’re open enough for a lot of mobility/dodging/spacing, but there’s always walls and other spaces for collisions. Typically there’s just enough space to where if you throw without aiming you won’t get a collision because the enemy didn’t travel far enough. And you’re right about the city section, granting you freedom and having an optional subweapon, on top of being followed up by probably the hardest section in the game, makes it my favorite area. Just a wonderful spree of combat.

154Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue May 19, 2020 8:21 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Started a new Extreme run to see how far I could get without screwing up. Managed to only have a single death until the train, which was purely because I got extremely cocking against a Mummyhead (always those guys). I did die a few times due to fighting Viola while derping around, but I don't count those.

Even did the Cellars without dying. Can't believe I'm saying this but this game really is just rising in my respect more and more. If you want you can check some parts of this attempt on my channel. You can really see that I'm getting super confident in my engagements but also movement.

If I keep this up and manage to snag a good strategy for the crusher rooms, I might....consider speedrunning this on Extreme (no promises).

> SS crevace extreme
Honestly, no. I'm done with it. As noted I just did another Extreme run and that just was a thousand times more entertaining.

> power suits
Don't worry, I think we're pretty much on the same wavelenght here.

> subweapons
It's funny because I've recently rebought Sekiro to toy around with its subweapons again since they seemed interesting to me. While the patch did improve it, ZoE2 is just at a completely other level imo. Hell it even beats action greats like GOW, NG and DMC in terms of combat creativity imo. At least in terms of how you actually deal with situations. There's just so much creative freedom, as long as you don't "LOL HALBERT LOOOOLLLLLL" all day with infinite meter.

> arenas
This game really does it all, and as noted always uniquely. If this game was done by anyone else, you can bet that we'd be on Mars a heck of a lot longer for instance. As a result I do like the survival-missions the least, they feel rushed.

Can see why SBK and you talked so highly of this game. Fuck me it's good.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

155Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 20, 2020 5:52 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
Damn, you’re apparently much better at this game than I am now haha. I still trip up frequently at the crusher room and that cellar room right before Taper. Have you played equip runs?

>rising in respect

This was one of those games that made me think I was crazy. Meaning that, nobody really talks about it, and it certainly isn’t on most people’s’ favorites list, but every time I would do a run I thought to myself, “I think this game is special. Really is one of the all time greats”. Eventually I got to the point where I was playing the entire game in an evening and wondering why more games didn’t do things as well as it did. It quickly became a top 10(or 5) title in the genre for me. It’s great to see you get into it so much.

>Sekiro

I know there’s a lot of viability with the DoT stuff, but are things like the axe good now?

>on another level with creative freedom

When you have every enemy type susceptible to all normal and subweapons, each with details and variants, it really does allow for an almost endless number of strategies and decisions. Wasn’t until recently I learned how useful phalanx is against mummyheads and clods(something you wouldn’t think, as it’s a weak weapon going against big foes, but this game manages to make it all work). Also adore that collisions are fair game against every enemy, including bosses.

>arenas do it all

Really that classic Kojima team trade, doing a lot with a little. There’s not a lot of battles in the game, but I was able to easily pick them apart after just one or two playthroughs.

>SBK

I believe this game is the reason he and I started talking. I was shocked to see another fan! Haha.

156Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 20, 2020 6:01 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Have not done equip-runs yet, though I'm very interested to do an FuckMine Only run or something, really feel that's one of the most creative weapons around. I wonder if you can Geyser it.

> I'm better
Story of my life. Hahahaha, joke. Nawh man. You don't have any gameplay of it on your channel right? I'd love to see you play it. High level gameplay of the game isn't that popular. There's two SS Extreme runs online but they play very similar.

> crusher room
This is the only room in the game that I'm not completely solid at yet, mostly because my brain keeps confusing the enemy locations per room. It's just too much and too confusing to remember.

> top10/5
I need to let it sink in, I'm doing my best not to burn out on the title like I did with Astral Chain and Genma Onimusha, in that I probably really cannot stomach it anymore. But it's clearly in my NGII/NGB/Vanquish rotation right now, which is...impressive.

I'm amazed at how people aren't talking about it though. Especially how easy it is to move, innovative controls, cool locations, hell it even has a great soundtrack. Game has something for everyone.

> phalanx against mummy and clod
Tell me more, I haven't tried this and Clods are my weakness.

> kojima trade
Or someone else, apparently after some digging I found out he barely touched the game. His name is more on it for sales than anything else. That said, I could be wrong. Older titles like that have very shoddy documentation.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

157Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 20, 2020 10:46 pm

Birdman


Moderator
This is why you should do as you're told and play what you're told to play without question son.

158Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu May 21, 2020 4:11 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I still have Knack II installed for a holy moment that my scedule allows it to take over my life.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

159Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri May 22, 2020 7:06 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
So I bought the original version for a 10er on the PS2, pretty interesting. First off I'm absolutely blown away by how gorgeous this game is. It looks like a PS3 game, all the particle effects, the artstyle, the levels, how things blow up, crumble, it is all so well made. The frame-rate is absolutely horrendous though and not even consistent. There can be 20 enemies on screen and be fine at 60fps, but suddenly you Geyser a single foe and the game just tanks.

Was also surprised by the little changes the game had. The radar is gone, you get more detailed stats per sub-weapon in the menu, some fights are a little bit different too in terms of enemy composition. The biggest change by far though was, imo, how Spiders and Viola AI worked. Viola AI behaved very different, at times mixing up attacks etc. Spiders are way more agressive as well, they shot me a ton of times and even stunlocked me once on Hard (of all things). Grab range is also slightly nerfed with Jehuty also not auto-grabbing as easy (he doesn't 'snap' as much). Zakat is *way* more agressive, using his charge nearly 4 times in a fight and using his mega-laser nearly after every shield I grabbed. Really makes me wonder if MARS screwed up his AI. Your regular shot is now also a single shot, not three little shots. Super Hard is also missing in terms of difficulties.

Also loved the rumble here, the controller basically shakes the earth in two when you grab a foe and slam him into another. Great stuff!

Lastly, I don't think I'll ever get a bigger gaming achievement than this in life:

Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Eyotak10

And yes, that's on EXTREME difficulty. Did a Hard run beforehand and rushed straight to EXTREME, I was just in the zone and doing really well, never thought to quit or save. It wasn't until Anubis that I realized I might not have died yet. Then the tension rose. Almost lost it at the final boss with only a sliver of health left.

This also disproves the notion that for SS you need SS in both events. My 'score' here would then be:
1+1+1+0.5

That's a total of 3.5 and you only need 2.5 for SS. Rank notes here: https://stinger.actieforum.com/t75p100-zone-of-the-enders-2-ps4-4k-edition#11450

Also bought MGS2 for the PS2 (it was a buy 2 sale), so might take a look into that later. Kind of want to just do another ZoE2 run though.

EDIT: have to note that I'll now never go to 'pro' mode, since I'd like to switch between versions. I am concerned that there's no solid port then though. Wonder how the HD version plays now. If it is more like MARS or more like the original.
EDIT2: watched some HD footage, that version really is just like this one. The PS3 and Xbox One versions seem to be great, so might pick those up in the future too. Maybe the PC down the line too.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

160Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri May 22, 2020 8:27 pm

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Why have I not played this game yet? Oh yeah, because it's $40 on Steam. I'm still waiting for a sale on this one...

And if any of you have played the PC version, can you confirm if there are any audio glitches? I've heard a lot about those.

161Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri May 22, 2020 8:33 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The game has a free-demo on STEAM if you want, you can always try that. Should give the same issues if there are any.

EDIT: the demo works fine for me, no issues. I do hear that it gets really bad if you go higher than 60fps though.
EDIT2: bought it, I'm a slut. Game looks gorgeous on the system by the way not going to lie.
EDIT3: no issues, managed to get the JPN version working without issue. Only thing is I get a microstutter, but that's probably on my end.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

162Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat May 23, 2020 12:16 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Some more notes. The original version really is a lot harder. Cyclopses AI is different, they will prioritize you far more as opposed to Taper for instance and do their projectile more often.

Want to write down the way to 'skip' Taper here since I couldn't find notes about it online. Basically he's very binary, he can only be in one of two boxes:
You always go to the top left room first [room C]. Here he'll call you and say one of two things:
- box with number 1
- box with number 5

If he says 1, shoot a box (required!) and go to room B. There'll be a red box on the right the number #41something. He's in there.

If he says 5, don't shoot a box but go to room A. There'll be a blue box there with the number #5123. He's in there.

If you're going for max kills, you want him to say 5, as that means you'll have to fight one extra room with Taper as you start farther away from the exit. If you want the easiest route, you'll want him to say 1 as it means less fights.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

163Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 27, 2020 1:27 am

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
Looks like I have some catching up to do haha. Haven’t really had time to post lately.

>F mine run

My last Naked Jehuty equip run it was pretty much all I used and it was basically just god mode, nothing stood a chance. Picking them up and throwing them is a great touch. Also the startup is so quick you can just catch enemies as they approach.

>gameplay on my channel

Not yet but I’m about to start. My internet has been horrendous for a while now, hence the lack of uploads. Just got new internet a few days ago so I’m good to record and upload again.

>crusher room confusing

Sometimes I forget how many sections there actually are, which makes me forget where the clods show up, very bad to run into a clod with no meter.

>top 10/5

I actually take back what I said, if it wasn’t for the Mikami Big 4(we all know which ones) I think this would be my favorite game in the genre. Just clicks with me like other games don’t(which is why I’m 20+ runs in just in the last year). Easy to pick up and play, looks and runs great, tons of variety, weapons are some of the best around, every tool and system has its place, great enemies, details galore, etc. If the bosses were just a bit more consistent and the lock on more reliable this may be the only game to challenge TEW/RE4/Vanquish for me(but those are all so shooters so maybe that doesn’t count).

>AC burn out

Didn’t realize you played it that much. Is it a good game to get into over the summer? Hear nothing but praise for it.

>phalanx against clod

Holding the button harder to do the concentrated fire has good range and you can snag some hitstun for very little meter, can be good for a dash-in grab or maybe a mid-level spirit bomb. Started doing this because I would get a little carried away with homing missiles/halberd and leave my subweapon gauge almost empty.

>Kojima barely touched the game

I can believe it, I think his team/combat designers were huge back in the PS2 days. Supposedly his team all put in ideas for MGS2 and they were always brainstorming. The idea for bomb disposal and coolant came from someone pretty far down on the totem pole from what I remember.

>PS2 comparisons

Damn you must have really caught the ZoE2 bug haha! I’ve also thought about busting out since I have my PS2 hooked up but I haven’t had much free time lately. Great notes though, now that you mention it I do remember some things you mention, like the game slowing down during geyser and I thought some of the enemies felt different on the PS4 version. Nice work!

>SS rank

Congrats! Must’ve felt amazing to pull that off. Did you go back and practice certain sections or did you just go for it?

>HD version

I remember the PS3 version having terrible slowdown at almost all times. I may bust it out to test some things out...

>MGS2

MGS2 and ZoE2 are damn near the pinnacle of early 00’s gaming imo, if you play them back to back you’ll ruin games for yourself haha! No but seriously, if you do play it make sure to let us know!

>taper shortcut

Very nice, I will definitely be using this from now on. I don’t really mind the part that much, I just view those container rooms as pit stops between fights but speeding them can’t hurt.

164Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed May 27, 2020 9:06 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Ha, no worries! Been busy toying around with the game too much haha. Keep finding out cool new stuff. For example just before the 'cellar room' at the start, there's a room with two Cyclopses and 4 turrets. You can just stand in the doorway and Spirit Bomb them, delicious. Also found a neat way to beat the Cellar with Taper. Put him below it, Geyser a foe and use that foe to kill the rest, fly to Cellar (close by) and smash the spawning cellar to bits. Bonus points if using a charged Pole haha.

The scoring system is totally busted though thanks to Cellars.

Also been toying with using Fmine and laying Decoy behind it. Sadistic fun.

> crusher room
The real run killer. I think a fundamental understanding of how Cellars work helps a lot, but the biggest problem is the camera there. You can easily see it swing around and suddenly you're in a corner with a Mummy laser beeding down on you.

> best in the genre
Too much competition for me currently, but I can definitely see it happening. NGII, RE4 and Vanquish are too high for me currently. But otherwise it's just such a fantastic game. As you note, it helps you can just do quick runs. Yesterday after work I just did a quick playthrough on Extreme on the PC version in 2 hours.

> AC
Fantastic game, insanely slow burn though and probably won't get interesting until you beat it. Probably their best combat system ever despite it having cooldowns. Just works very well.

> phalanx
Single sub-weapon runs should be down the line for me I feel haha, never thought of using it that way. Sounds interesting.

> coolant came from a random guy
I think that's the way to go about it. Itagaki also did this a lot with NGII.

> PS2 version
I'm a sucker for playing things on original hardware!

> SS
Totally by accident, don't think I'll ever be able to reproduce it. After all the runs I've pretty much mastered all sections barring two (Nephis escort and crusher), so it is just about executing it. But honestly it was just my first Extreme run on the system and I wanted to finish it in a single sitting. For comparison my Extreme run on PC yesterday had 0 saves and 5 deaths. Ironically all at parts that I don't find challenging haha.

> taper
It's a fun section to calm down, but after a few runs it got tired for me so I decided to 'math it out' so to speak haha. I like that even random parts like that can be optimized.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

165Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:32 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Finished all the EX Missions with a high-score. Some were really, really brutal. You actually get a reward for it, in a sense. Took me by surprise. The background image of the EX Mission menu changes to an illustration of Jehuty. I always like these little rewards.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

166Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:18 pm

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
Someone I know played the xbox 360 version of this game a lot on Extreme etc. and said it's by far the hardest version, due to some seemingly unintended changes (AI related?). Might be jank but worth a look.

Too bad about the MARS inaccuracies, I guess that's the norm with these ports though.

edit: and yeah, this game looks amazing on PS2. iirc it was/is the most difficult PS2 game to emulate on PC with all the end of PS2 lifespan optimizations and graphical effects going on similar to MGS3

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

167Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:43 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Yeah the X360 and PS3 versions are direct copies of the PS2 version, albeit missing some graphical features and of course performing worse somehow which the PS3 got fixed in a patch, while the Xbox version gets it slightly fixed in the X1X re-release.

The biggest change is the agression of Spiders and Zakat, as well as some minor collision issues like grabbing Ardjet to delete her AI being a bit wonky originally. And of course your regular shot bieng a single quick shot instead of a triple burst that it is in MARS which makes Raptors easier to deal with.

That said some enemies really, really, are a lot tougher in the Mars version I'm finding. Clods can tank a fully charged Spirit Bomb now for instance on MARS PC, but on PS2 they die in a single blow, forcing you to change some tactics. Aumann Crevace is also a bit harder on the MARS version due to lacking the lag and having more enemies appear on screen, makes getting SS a lot harder there.

So yeah, they both have their own things. I just play them intermixed now. Though I admit that I prefer the PC version right now due to how easy it is to keep a session going thanks to lightning fast loads.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

168Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:53 am

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
If MARS has things that are more difficult to offset that sounds good enough to me. Started up the PS4 ver and feels great, instant weapon switching (pro controls and high framerate really opens up the game. Looks gorgeous and is a tightly packed game with little dead air, much less than Vanquish for example. Gonna try and burn through all the difficulty modes and extra missions over the next few weeks

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

169Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:49 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The weapon-switching is great! I personally don't use it since it confused me in my multi-version play, but once you get used to it the game will probably speed up even more I'd reckon. MARS really looks great, PC slightly better even but not hugely so.

Keep us posted on your progress! I'm mostly interested in your Extreme run, it was akin to my first God Hard run (painful) haha. Still working on making my 0save+0death run more consistent outside of that one fluke. The Ex Missions are hit and miss. Some fights aren't designed well and thus highly annoying while others are nearly a waste of time.

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170Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Got really close to another zero-death run on PS2 but jobbed to Zakat. I tried to Vector Cannon him and the charge was almost ready, but I pushed it and got mined. Got pretty solid tactics for each and every fight now, even the crusher rooms. As it stands now the only fights that really give me trouble are:
- Vic Viper: the grab loop works, but sometimes he just doesn't want to play ball.
- violaAI: her first and second and third fight are okay. But it's the one with the Clods that can really go bad if you're unlucky. If you run out of meter I still have no idea what to do there.
- Zakat: phase 2 is a total crapshoot currently on what moves he combines. If he just does the laser I'm fine. But if he does mine+charge attack I'm toast, if he does gravitywell + melee I'm toast, anything that removes my decoy and I'm basically screwed. Total RNG if he allows vector-canon.
On lower settings you can use Halbert on his gravitywell, but the HP of the thing on Extreme is too high I feel for this to be viable.
- Final boss: there's jsut something about him that annoys me. The lower-difficulty tactic of double-zero shift to make him block still works, but you run the risk of him doing his shiny-blast thing, so you need to 'hit confirm' it in a sense which I'm too stressed for at that point haha. Been considering if killing him with shields is a possible strat. Haven't dived in too much yet.

Note I did find a better attack combination on him. Triple slash canceled into comet canceled into block into triple slash deals the highest DPS on his spine in Phase 1 I've found. Quite meter efficient too, which is important since you want a lot of meter for Decoy and possibly Mummy in phase 2 if you're going for 0-save 0-death.

Still have to do no-subweapons run too. So much to enjoy with this game!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

171Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:55 am

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
Those zero death runs sound crazy, thats some really impressive progress there
Got up to the Viola AI bit on extreme today after a veryhard playthrough.

I can't say I like the behavior of mummyheads on extreme. Since the laser is undodgeable feels like you either have to cheese them via some memorized speedkill strategy (subweapon spam) or cheese by spamming throws because of iframes. Especially if they have a laser active while sitting behind a corner that's some amazing technique. At least decoy etc make this function closer to how it normally does. Because of the lockon system being kinda uncooperative a big part of the problem is not knowing how to target these enemies in time, unless you've already memorized what kind of formation they spawn inside. Since toggling through groups of enemies can be a crapshoot
(wonder if this is intended by the devs? like putting enemies inside the tiny zako swarms to make lockon intentionally difficult)

The lock-on system is pretty wack. There really should be some button to go into 'allied target lock' mode so the two arent mixed. For enemies some high priority targeting? (nearest commander / mummyhead / clod?). Lock nearest target does exist I guess, just not super used to the input yet.

Been playing ex missions on the side, got 243 kills on jehuty phobos survival after some attempts but messed up recording : x, maybe try for the metatron at 300 tomorrow.

An interesting challenge run might be no giant swing: if you short tap the throw button jehuty throws the target instantly. Feels like the swing motion is sort of a crutch to deal with crowds due to iframes. It's a little weird being the only defensive option of that type with decoy being vaguely similar. Whereas for things like melee and ranged attack you have a lot of subweapon options etc. to keep it fresh. I always thought it looks a little goofy for something that the player might be using all the time.

btw there is both triple burst shot and single shots in MARS, its just time-sensitive (have to hold the button a little), I'm guessing that choice is pressure sensitive on the PS2 controller instead

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

172Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:58 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Yeah the zero-death run is a bit weird for me since I got one by complete accident on the PS2 version. Since then I'm trying to get it more consistently, as I really had a ton of luck that original run.

> Mummyheads on extreme
There's a couple of ways to go about it, so don't worry the game has enough options in this regard. If the initial laser doesn't connect you can circle up and down in a clockwise motion (or counter clockwise, depending on the laser) to avoid it. If there's distance you can out-range it. A single tap from any of your shots will interrupt it as well, just be mindful that at close range the lock-on-laser will often fail, so better to use a regular shot.

You can also do some other things. It's very handy to quickly deal 50~%  damage to an enemy nearby beforehand using Gauntlet or for example a weakened Spirit Bomb. Healing is a top priority for Mummies. So if there are two, they will heal each other, giving you ample time to charge a maxed out spirit-bomb. There's a fight with 5 of them in the city to unlock Mummy, you can easily bypass it for example by entering and doing a spread with Halbert, just touching each of them. They'll immediately start healing each other, which wins you the fight.

It does help to know their spawns, for example doing Canyon single segment without saving really helps to know from where you can do Spirit Bomb snipes. Also don't underestimate Geyser. Holding the button down makes it track the target, great to lock them down.

If the initialy laser does connect by the way. Then of course firstoff, learn from it, don't get hit haha! Second, you can quickly dash away, though you'll probably still lose 50-70% HP easily. Mummy and Geyser can help, as does Zero Shift if you have it, to make a quick getaway. But general rule is that if you get hit by it you're toast.

> lock on
I'm getting more and more comfortable with it, but yeah there are glarring issues. There are some underlying mechanics. You'll at times see a white-lock-on icon while locked on to a foe (red). If you then tap the shoulder button, you'll switch target to that white-icon. Usually this is an important target like a Cellar.

To lock-on to friendlies, equip Geyser while locked-off and then lock on (tap the button). You'll lock on to the ally. Note that this only works if they are below 50% health. Works wonders to get S(S) at Aumann Crevace.

It's not flawless, but there are thankfully at least some rules. Really wish the priority system was a bit more balanced out though as you note. Seeing Jehuty lock-on to a muscito while there's 10 Clods busting your ass isn't useful.

> ex 243
Great job man! What was your setup? Mostly Wisp abuse or something else?

> giant swing
It's a good escape, but there are a lot of other good options. If you hold an enemy and dash, you use them as a shield and they deal collision damage against other enemies. So you can grab a Clod and just dash into a Mummy's laser for example. Also grabbing a Geysered foe and attacking with him (or just flying into others) geysers them too, including allies to heal them. Or you can just smack them around haha. Geysered Tapper or allies later-on are great weapons. Nephis is a bit harder to attack with since she's so heavy.

> triple burst
I wasn't too clear on this, but what I mean is that in PS2 the tap is a single quick shot and the hold is a single heavy shot. On MARS the tap is a triple quick shot and the hold a single heavy shot. No idea why they did this. The triple quick shot in MARS is really, really good.



Last edited by Royta/Raeng on Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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173Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:59 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Update: finally got a great strat for the final boss. I found out that if you do Zero Shift into two hits into charged slash it covers all options.

If you do it and he does his invincible flurry of blows, it will give you enough time to cancel out to prepare to avoid+punish.

If you do it and he does his charged energy ball, the first two hits deal enough damage to knock him out of it, the charged slash is bonus.

If you do it and he blocks, the first two hits are just a hitconfirm and the charged slash breaks his guard. If you do three slashes you'll clash which you want to avoid.

If you do it and he does sword blows back, you can just dash out.

100% safe, finally no-damaged him on Extreme this way. It's a bit of an exploit I feel, but fuck that boss haha.

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174Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:18 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
Good notes! Will try that strat on the final boss since I still have trouble with it(really dislike the fight honestly). I think at this point you’ve played the game more than I have, I need to catch up haha.

>mummyheads

There’s a lot of ways to deal with these guys, every subweapon works in some way(as they do against every enemy type), you can dodge in a circular motion like Roy said, you can dash back and forth through the laser to use iframes, use regular shots, objects, anything you want really. I think it just seems unfair because it stays active for so long. Note that you can block it with a plate, or you can use the laser to your advantage, i.e grab an enemy and block, the laser will kill the enemy you’ve grabbed.

175Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:34 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I stand corrected. Did some testing, the triple shot is in the PS2 version, but the input is really weird. In MARS the default tap is a triple fast shot. In the PS2 it is done by doing a light tap, and then releasing the button but not fully. I can barely get it to work consistently. Can see why they changed it.

> dislike the final fight
Like most bosses he really got worse in Extreme. Only the 'true' Anubis fight got a good buff imo, he's just really cool now. Zakat is too random for my taste. Just did him again on Extreme on PS2 and it really is a crap shoot what attacks he starts mixing imo. At one point he did the mines, void and his dash attack intermixed. To quote DSP: "nothing I could do!!!!"

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176Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:45 pm

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
@Royta/Raeng wrote:I stand corrected. Did some testing, the triple shot is in the PS2 version, but the input is really weird. In MARS the default tap is a triple fast shot. In the PS2 it is done by doing a light tap, and then releasing the button but not fully. I can barely get it to work consistently. Can see why they changed it.

Again maybe that's related to DualShock 2 buttons being pressure sensitive but DualShock 4 ones being normal? and they translated the light hold input into tap since otherwise it's not possible on DS4. Also makes sense why the subweapon input is on R2 with 'pro controls', you can actually do the pressure sensitive input with that instead of the circle button.

re: survival loadout:
-I don't think Wisp is worth using your sub gauge for until maybe once enemies reach extreme AI levels (something over 300?). Otherwise if you need to spend gauge to grab a single faraway enemy (why?) you're probably already about to lose, should be able to just grab nearby enemies normally to gain ammo. Also since it's just a raw grab that uses gauge you might not be dealing damage as quickly as you could otherwise. Being slower means more Commanders will activate enemy party.
Though I havent been using the alternate Wisp attack where you hold and swing enemies around first. If you use that it might get enough done for the ammo. The 'wire' even does some decent damage similar to halberd.

-Homing Missile seems a bit too good in general honestly (remember having this impression since game launch), it's extremely ammo efficient.

-Floating Mine could be good once a lot of enemies spawn but very difficult as you have to confirm each mine kills at least 3 enemies as otherwise it's not worth using.

-Decoy could be handy at higher enemy level (better than blocking) but again if you start using meter purely for defense it's sort of a losing battle.

These weapons fit on the 4 categories of the d-pad weapon select which is a nice touch. A good player with enough awareness probably juggle between all of them.
You do get metatron every 100 kills so seems be reasonable go forever even with regular jehuty, sounds tedious. It's a shame the mode isn't more fleshed out and had different enemy types + boss fights similar to NG2. It would be kind of neat if subweapon categories had their own ammo gauges to encourage weapon switching instead of only using the couple super-efficient ones, but I guess it wasnt really their intent to fully balance the weapons (like comet vs missile?)

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

177Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:44 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Wisp is mostly just a brainless way to 'win' at Survival. Since it's so meter efficient you can legit spam it in combination with spin-throw unless there's a Narrita around. Later-on when commanders arrive in larger numbers it gets a bit less mindless, but got 150 easy on all of them while watching TV that way when doing them again on PS2. Which Survival do you like most so far? I love the fifth one, cool OST.

> wisp is costly grab
True, but eventually it is pretty handy for getting that guaranteed grab. When four Cyclopses are near you I'd rather not risk it haha.

> alternative wisp attack

Haven't found a single use for this since on Extreme enemies break free way too fast. The wire deals damage? That's interesting. Just when they touch it or constantly while in contact with it?

> homing missile

I like it, high damage, high cost. If you line it up smartly Halbert is a way more efficient choice imo. Or just straight up Geyser into a throw or Wisp with a melee attack. Can't see what you mean with cost-efficient. You get 9 (?) kills in a full charge which costs about a third of your meter, you can kill so many more enemies with your other subweapons I feel using that meter. Always see it more as a quick escape option. With any of the super-costumes it's a party though.
Really wish we got Fuck Mine sooner. I haven't done an Equip-run yet on Extreme to toy around with single subweapon runs.

> decoy
Best subweapon imo in just how useful it is. Only Anubis ignores it iirc and Clods at times (seems like a bug). If you use the held-version, you should have enough time for a maxed charge spirit bomb that would make Goku proud. Just be mindful of mummies since they melt decoys. Outside of Survival it is great to place them next to Cellars or in corners, kind of derps the AI.

> ammo
Meter management is king in these types of games imo. If you want you can trivialize any action game anyway, there'll always be an optimal strategy. I don't mind resource management that much in games like RE, MGS etc. But in a title like this I'd say a global meter is fine. If players want to experiment, they'll do so regardless. No need to push players to experiment, as that tends to lead to a more lineair game strangely enough i.e. Doom Eternal.
That said I feel they are pretty balanced all around. The only one that at times feels lacking is Phalanx for me, though Infinity has a lot more love for that one than I do, and I know it can loop just about every boss IIRC but I just cannot get the timing down.

Comet is pretty good imo. It's basically a fast mini-spirit bomb (thus, unblockable) that deals high damage and the held version dances around longer. Great for larger enemies like Zakat, or if you have a single foe low on HP that needs to die now. Great in the train engagement as well. Situational, but good. Also can clear entire rooms of Spiders if you want it to since it penetrates their shield iirc.

> F mine
You can use a few tricks, like putting a decoy next to it. Or grab it immediately and just fly around until you have a group of enemies together. The throw animation is i.framed. Kind of like grabbing those big containers, gotta plan it out. That said, feel it'll mostly shine in fun Fmine-only runs. Does great damage against bosses too. Good for a speedkill on Zakat at the very least.

> NGII survival mode
Always had a love hate relationship with that one. Honestly like Sigma1's more (only thing that game did right). NGII's was great but the absence of any real walls made it less good imo, as you basically lost a good chunk of your moveset there. It's emphasis on UT abuse once you got x5 karma wasn't my thing either, or its emphasis on Karma as a whole. Had a pretty bad run with the Lunar that got me a Gold medal since I just resorted to UTs, but got a few round clears with the DS to only get Silver since I played it straight.

Random ZoE2 note of the day: apparently Gauntlet breaks the shield of Fake Anubis for some reason. Was toying around with him haha. Also Decoy completely destroys Inhert's second phase, totally screws up the AI it seems and the camera has a field day. Also Wisp actually works on some bosses which is funny. They break free immediately though, which can lead to that fun grab-loop like on Vic Viper.

You also did some of the other EX missions? GRAB#3 with Naked Jehuty was pretty brutal for me, same with Final Boss using JehutyV2. Curious to hear your attempts on those.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

178Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:45 am

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
Up to bahram fleet on extreme now. I liked how the Inhert and Nephtis fights were changed, gimmicky normally easy bosses became actually challenging in more regular ways here.

Recorded some video of survival


For homing missile with minimum charge you instant kill 2 enemies for barely above the gauge consumption of a spirit bomb.. that's why I mentioned floating mine needs at least 3 kills to be worth at all. Halberd seems similar to mine in that sense but more practical yeah. I feel like its easier to line up those halberd shots in the normal game than survival rooms.

As an example once you reach about 26 enemies killed in survival 5 with max meter you can reach 50 kills just using minimum charge missiles. a decent part of the meter recovers since you always kill multiple targets at once.

Liking this port of the game a lot so far along with figuring out extreme. I find it cute they remade the trailer type intro with new assets. Pretty much only thing I feel missing is the 2nd intro move in Special Edition PAL/JP versions. It showed a great overview of the game and a nice song so sorta sad to see it not preserved.



I guess cygames did most of the porting job here? They must have had some big fans of the game. Hard to trust konami themselves with this stuff anymore :p

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

179Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:29 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Yeah the Extreme changes to bosses are really cool once you get used to them. Feel it's an interesting way to change up difficulty to say the least. Anubis's changes also caught me off guard the first time around. Zakat's laser as well.

> survival
Great run! Wish the game had leaderboards for these scores. Going to try and beat the score this weekend haha, get some friendly competition going. Really interesting showcase of the Homing Missile burst shot. Does it get more expensive per rocket if you use the full charge compared to the lovetap?

Technically I think you can go on infinitely, it seems to stop scaling the fight at a certain point iirc.

> original intro
Maybe it's in the trailer-archive in the game? Not sure. I recall there being a place where you can rewatch cutscenes. I just watched that trailer on my PS2 yesterday, fun one though I admit to prefering the MARS one.

> cygames
Konami royally screwed up the original HDremaster, so it's cool to see it get love. Apparently the VR also works great but I'm not touching that haha.

Fun fact: the highscore of the Vic Viper minigame cheated haha. He used the Konami Code. Kept wondering why I couldn't top that score.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

180Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:45 pm

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
@Royta/Raeng wrote:Maybe it's in the trailer-archive in the game? Not sure. I recall there being a place where you can rewatch cutscenes. I just watched that trailer on my PS2 yesterday, fun one though I admit to prefering the MARS one.

PS2 has both, the special edition one is a second intro. MARS has remade normal intro instead of doing anything of its own (which is neat)

Finished extreme playthrough today, Anubis was fun. Zakat & the ex missions jehuty ver.2 vs aumaan anubis and naked jehuty grab 3 didnt give me any trouble, maybe some version difference. Though I vaguely remember something about aumaan anubis on ps2 way back, maybe I got a strategy back then



Last edited by zaa / Aaro on Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

181Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:55 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Zakat is only a problem for me on PS2, on MARS he's too passive imo. I think they gave him a maximum of moves he could do at once there.

But yeah those gave me a lot of trouble, good to hear they didn't for you! Felt Naked Jehuty Grab 3 was pretty hard since you didn't have the spinthrow (only the weird dismantle unique to that frame). Anubis with JehutyV2 was really annoying since you can't really hit him easily thanks to those Options of yours that teleport him out. Anubis with Damaged Jehuty was also pretty spicy for me since you don't have any projectiles to deal with his healing-phase, thus has to use the shields lying about.

You thinking of going for a SS run on Extreme?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

182Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:53 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Making unique saves on the PC version now per engagement. Trying to derp around with the first Ardjet fight but it feels very limited. Not sure what triggers the infinite yet since sometimes she escapes it I feel. She's an easy boss but just trying to find something. You can't even grab her. Noticed that if she summons her wisps and you really time your shots well you can kill them all in a single burst-shot, but haven't managed it more than twice.

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183Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:30 pm

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
I'd completely forgotten using Burst on a grabbed enemy with Jehuty ver.2 or Naked Jehuty kills the enemy almost instantly. That makes grab missions a lot more dynamic and fun than normal Jehuty as you can choose between quick kill immediately on grab or throws for less damage.
There are way too many of these EX missions though because of more than 2 jehutys. It's a little annoying having already done them on PS2.. Looking at the high score clear time requirements, I get the feeling the devs/playtesters set a good goal time, then decided to doubled that time as the requirement. Since for almost all of them below half the time looks totally reasonable as a 'good' clear time.

I always found Jehuty ver.2's implementation super weird. you only have access to it for that tiny area between aumaan crevasee and Anubis, having little time to get used to it and making the Naked Jehuty section seem redundant and weird.

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

184Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:04 am

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
Finished the EX missions now, mostly filler but some fun ones. Found the Naked Jehuty survival missions surprisingly hard. Survival in wind tunnel with Damaged/Naked Jehuty is pretty wild, those clods are so strong they even mess with zero shift at higher AI levels lol.
I expected the OP jehutys to also be that in ex missions, but in survival the enemies are scaled pretty well to match what you're using: With damaged jehuty they are more passive than normal, with naked jehuty they're aggressive, immediately start at high level and commanders activate almost instantly.
Aumaan Entrance with naked jehuty might be one of the roughest ones for average player, you sorta have to do the 'correct' SS-rank strategy of throwing the LEVs in middle lane to even survive. As the enemies are super aggro and your armament isn't good for clearing out enough enemies once the final wave starts.

In Zoradius MARS arranged mode entering the konami code spawns a penalty boss instead of being useful hahaha. The arranged transformed mode has a very powerful melee attack which is useful at the right moments, pretty well thought out. I don't think you need to use konami code in either mode to get that high score. I guess there could be a big bonus depending on how much health you have at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

185Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:03 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> clear times
Had the same feeling. Only one I originally felt was too strict was the Ardjet escort one, until I realized you should just hold dash to fly up instead of mash it. The Aumann section is easily done if you just beat the rank, so if the requirement is 8 minutes (A), and you get 15 minutes (S), you still win.

> Jehuty V2
I did a short analysis somewhere in this topic about all the fights, and I sort of took him as a 'powertrip' section where you can use all your subweapons thanks to the increased meter. The 'options' he has though feel like an afterthought. Think it would've been interesting if they'd been incorporated in the game's design more i.e. being able to collect Options throughout the campaign, with dying or saving losing them for example.

Not a fan of Damaged Jehuty having infinite meter. Ruins challenge runs with him.

> Versus
Went a bit into this yesterday, it's actually really fun. I'm half amazed they made such a detailed mode and though it's pretty simplisitc, I wouldn't mind organizing a fun room-brawl/tourny for it. Really saddened you can't unlock the other frames for singleplayer. If the game had a more dedicated modding-scene I'm sure we'd have seen it.

> clods in windtunnel
IIRC I devolved the Clods into Raptors and focused on killing the other enemies. It's been a while since I did those.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

186Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:44 pm

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank
Yeah if there was a modding scene I'd imagine you could see other OFs thrown into custom ex missions, maybe more survival stages (imagine aumaan entrance with those kinds of enemy counts + more enemy variety).

I remember Versus being pretty simplistic and the camera system a weird concession but fun time overall and def worth booting up. iirc wasn't bad at all for what it is in the first ZOE either, one of the strong points

About ver.2 being a power trip I agree, but considering the length of those sections I cant help but imagine something more was planned at a point. Since the bits are on jehuty's body ever since the first game and only began to be used for Wisp & Ver.2 it's not exactly something thrown together out of nowhere.

In general ZOE2 is such a movie-like packed game it feels like there is too much going on to keep track of at points. Which is excellent gameplay wise and for replays.
But the setting or characters barely have time to sink in, just assuming players already care about the world from the first game & anime series ('Dolores, i', actually remember this being decent) You aren't going to give a shit about things like 'Enders' in the title being people living at the edge of space or jehuty's AI ADA character when ZOE2 is an action movie with nohman going nuts and a weird ending. The whole series was clearly built as a franchise with the anime stuff being released right after the first game.

Cygames considering making a third game sounds pretty good as that's in better hands than staying with Konami

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

187Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Yeah the Versus Mode in the first one is also pretty great. Did some more testing in ZoE 2's and there's a ton of broken stuff, you can basically OHKO most enemies with Ardjet's super move as she becomes a fully active hit-box when charging it. Grabbed an enemy, threw them into a wall and just stood next to them while they were recovering and watched them melt. Delicious cheese haha.



> length of V2
Surprising since it's probably one of the longest combat sections in the game barring maybe the Canyon and cityscape. The hidden boss there always weirded me out too.



> ZoE2 setting and characters
Not to mention it really suffered in the translation. Apparently they ditched most of the interesting conversations and relationships i.e. Nohman being a homosexual and lover/formerlover/interested in Dingo, which is totally absent in what we got. Not to mention the performances really feel like they were recorded out side of any context. Dingo saying "okay" in the calmest manner possible after seeing his friends die etc. Really shows just what kind of treatment MGS could have gotten.

Going to finally try a zero-subweapon run, see how that pans out. No clue how to tackle Viola's final engagement but we'll see.

On big gripe I'm starting to have though is that the final result screen doesn't show difficulty, and that the scoring system is kind of...bad thanks to Cellars. SS-ranking Aumann also isn't up my alley, but I think that's just an oversight.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

188Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:28 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Just started the game on Steam, and my first impressions (20 minutes) are that it seems pretty good. The movement system is definitely quite different than from what I'm used to, but I think I could get used to it with time. Got any tips on that front?

Also, how often should I be blocking? I find myself using it a lot more often than most other action games, but I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

So far, I just beat Nephtis, and that first boss whose name I already forget. Unsurprisingly, I'm not very good, but when I inevitably replay this game due to the short length, are there any good tips?

And similarly to Chaos Legion, the game's translation and voice acting are fucking hilarious. I don't know what's happening in the story, but the cutscenes are pretty funny to watch.



Last edited by TheFirmament1 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

189Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:24 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Saw it on twitter, good haul man!

> movement
Basic practice helps, at first it is best to focus on reaching enemies and just going for the kill, later-on you can experiment with using up and down to dodge enemy attacks while dodging which is pretty sweet.

> blocking
Rarely. Generally speaking out-spacing your enemies is better or just dodging their attacks. Blocking is really safe, but its meter drain is difficulty dependant. On Normal you can tank quite a few hits, but on Extreme one blocked chain of attacks is an empty bar. Note that you can still block with an empty bar. It's just that you gimp your offensive capabilities.

> bosses
Bosses are more like very tense puzzles. The first boss you can easily kill by dodging or blocking her 4 hit combo and then doing your own. Be sure to end into a downwards-slash to knock her into some of the terrain for bonus damage. Block the wisps to lower her guard and rinse and repeat.

Viola AI is pretty easy, grabbing poles has i.frames so you can just stand next to a stack and keep chucking them at her.

> translation
It got absolutely butchered, which goes to show what sort of treatment MGS could've gotten. Game also changed a lot of the plot. The main villain who controls Anubis is actually gay and in love with the protagonist Dingo, which was completely removed from the western release. Now he's just...extravagant haha.

Note that soon you'll be getting sub-weapons, and then the game really opens up. Just be patient with some of the Kojima moments. There's some wonky weird sections that are a drag on a first playthrough, but once you play it enough you'll blast through them and they are honestly pretty fun. Really is a game made for replays.

With that said, time to boot it up again haha.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

190Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>The main villain who controls Anubis is actually gay and in love with the protagonist Dingo
What...

I only have the Japanese version. Why did he gun Dingo down and walk away grinning then?

191Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:06 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Slowly making my way through the game again on Extreme, making a save per room so I can just experiment freely. Here's a revised Taper guide:


First, go to room C (top left), to trigger the first hint to Taper's location.

[Box with number 1 in it]
Shoot any crate in room C, then go to Room B. There shoot crate 3810 (red).

[Box with number 5 in it]
Go to Room A and shoot crate 5123 (blue).

[Box with number 6 in it]
Go to Room A and shoot crate 6915 (blue).

It is best to get him to say Number 1, as this skips a single fight in the section afterwards, making it a lot easier. Number 6 seems to be Japan exclusive for whatever reason (at least, have only been able to trigger it on that version).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

192Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:09 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
@Birdman wrote:>The main villain who controls Anubis is actually gay and in love with the protagonist Dingo
What...

I only have the Japanese version. Why did he gun Dingo down and walk away grinning then?

Not a clue honestly. Probably doesn't let love stand between business. I'm only relaying what I've heard when searching for the game's translation issues. IIRC he went mad due to metatron influence, so could be that.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

193Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:06 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Just going to keep talking haha, did some testing for the Cellar when you're escorting Taper. Sadly Geyser doesn't last long enough on him, so you cannot Geyser him beforehand and use him as a stun-factory so to speak haha. What you can do however is put him underneath the Cellar and throw Geysers at him. Every foe that wants to attack him will get stunned, you then grab those foes and throw them at the Cellar. Easy win!

Fun tactic to derp around with imo.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

194Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
^Nice find. On my no sub weapon run(which I need to get back to) I found that leaving two weakened enemies alive(usually raptors) while going for pole hits on a cellar is just too good to pass up. You’ll end up inadvertently destroying the two enemies left alive with the massive hitbox, enemies spawning will get hit, and it’s probably the best way to do damage without meter to a cellar(much higher DPS than a collision).

Also I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but the fact that clashing with the enemy restores meter is just fantastic. Surprisingly useful when there aren’t smaller enemies to kill and you quickly need some meter.

195Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:23 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> pole
Bonus points if you use Taper as a sacrificial lamb while you charge it up haha.

> clash restores meter
Did not know that, and that explains so much. Always wondered what that was for on a mechanical level. Game just keeps on giving. Might be handy to restore meter in certain sections like against Ardjet. Would explain why I'd always get meter back against Ardjet AI. Cheers!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

196Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:27 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
I need to really test the damage between regular and charged poles against cellars, on this run I haven’t been bothering with except against mummyheads.

And yeah the clashing is great way to restore meter in 1v1 encounters, this game really gives you crazy freedom as long as you know how to get creative. It’s good for getting some meter back for spirit bombs  too.

197Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:51 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The damage difference is pretty noticable. If the Cellar is open it barely needs 4 hits when powered up.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

198Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:57 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
I haven’t really been taking notes or anything of that nature, but I have been running through segments of the game and just seeing what I can get away with by mixing and matching subweapons/grabs/normals, and it’s insane how virtually everything I’ve tried is 100% viable and good. Not one mediocre attack or weapon in the whole game. Just masterful stuff.

The topic that shall not be named on GFAQS right now has made me chime in on the level design too. The arenas tend to be fairly barren but they obviously all have walls and floors that can be utilized, there’s well-places poles and plates in most arenas, and there’s clever use of corners for spirit bombs. I think it shows that adding some slight variance to areas can really change a battle even if you don’t realize it.

Was messing around with enemy attacks too, for a bit I thought maybe cyclops’ were a bit too powerful compared to other enemies but I realized they have a pretty exclusive weakness and that’s their ability to close the distance on you. If you dodge a shockwave(which can be done by normal strafing) they usually wont follow it up and will instead approach you slowly, which is nice for getting off a raw spirit bomb. Realized this on my no sub weapons run and it comes in handy.

199Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:07 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The weapon design really is top notch, really cannot fault it. It's easy to fall into certain traps e.g. decoy abuse, but everytime you think you know the perfect setup for a fight you find something new.

Regarding the arenas, I just love how much little stuff there is going on. There's always something new, be it certain elevations, platforms, crushers, breakable platforms, mountains to throw enemies in for bonus damage and stagger - the game has it all.

> Cyclops slow move towards you
Something that Mummyheads also do mind you. Raptors can also be grabbed for free for a few frames after they do their shielded-dash. I feel the Cyclops is just such a fine enemy though. They can absolutely brutalize you when 3 are just mashing away at your face. They have an interesting projectile too, but low health.

There's been pictures of Kojima working with Yoji on some concepts that looked very mecha-esque. Would be cool if they are going to work on a ZoE3 like game though I doubt it. Still cannot believe we almost got ZoE3 directed by Itagaki at one point. Universe is a cruel place.

> that topic
Guy is giving Behemothblade a run for his money.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

200Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition - Page 4 Empty Re: Zone of the Enders 2 PS4 4k-edition on Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:58 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
>mountains to throw foes into

Pretty lovely, wish there was a bit more of it but like you said, the game is always throwing something new at you.

>mummyheads slow move

True, but they have the long-distance laser to chase you wish, whereas the cyclops has the one-and-doke shockwave. With mummyheads my tactic is to either stun them ASAP, or deal damage to a different nearby enemy to make them prioritize healing. What a great enemy roster.

>cyclops mashing away at your face

They’re especially harsh with no sub weapons, you really have to study what they’re doing and not let them congregate, those guard breaking punches are devastating.

>ZoE3 directed by Itagaki

!?

>giving BB a run for his money

Striking me as the same person tbh.

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