Chatting about games

Malcar wrote:I hate remakes I hate remakes, I hate remakes I hate remakes. I hate remakes: I hate remakes, I hate remakes. I. Hate. Remakes. I hate remakes I hate remakes I hate remakes I hate remakes I hate remakes.

That is all.

same. all i gotta say ever since 9th gen has happened the game companies are remaking old games rather than make something new and creative completely brand new game i mean

Conceptually I love the idea of remakes (and otherwise meaningfully changed versions of games) because I think the existence of multiple bespoke versions of a game I love with their own unique intricacies and idiosyncrasies is cool. For example, Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D has a lot of design philosophy changes that I think make it a worse game, but I'm so glad that there are now two very different versions of a game I can come to appreciate the intricacies of. But the culture surrounding it—both from corporations and gamers—is really ruining it for me. Original versions just casually getting memory holed to never be released again; gamers telling each other, "just play the remake; it's flatly better and there's no reason to bother with the original at this point."

The commercial and social culture around video games always treat remakes as wholesale replacements for the original in a feedback loop, with gamers neglecting original versions of games because corporations are telling them they don't want the originals, and gamers in turn begging corporations for remakes they "need" to enjoy old games (that often objectively require at worst an hour of adjustment from a player to get used to, but they don't care). It's like a microcosm of the obsession with graphics, where corps tell gamers that graphics are most important, and vice versa. Really shitty destructive feedback loops are what make this industry turn.

https://youtu.be/v6XeuV-3ZIQ Give this kid a shoutout. Just wish he wasn’t too much in the combo mentality(not that that’s bad, but his best content is when he shows unknown efficient strategy’s imo).

I know that many of you dislke game-essay youtubers like Joseph anderson, But I really really respect Noah Caldwell-Gervais because of this masterful speech.

"The whole point of Dark Solus is that it is not like life. It is rational, consistent, predictable and fair. It`s possible to get stuck, i did my self, and more here in Dark souls 3 than any of the other games in the trilogy. But that isn`t because they`re hard like life. It`s because they are hard as a way to challenge my ability to work within their systems under strict limits creating as thin edges as they can between success and failure.

The games do this not because this is how life is, but because this is dramatic. Because this is play. Because walking on that knife`s edge requires being completely absorbed in the present tense of experience and that is something that life rarely gives us the opportunity to do."

The clip from his dark soul trilogy essay

It's nice prose, but honestly it's a bit a collection of empty words to me. What is he actually saying? At best he's noting "the game has a lot of creative freedom in its mechanics, that I don't necassarly have to learn a specific way to play but can have my build supplement my lack of gamer 'skill'".

> my lack of gamer 'skill'
If I have to defence on him for a conversation, I think that he knows that 'skill' is important but explain in a very wrong way. He talks about his physical reaction being too slow, but he did find various tools in Dark Souls with his witness and speculation("I didn`t have to git gud in this games (...) Instead I was cunning, I was full of tricks"). But as your catch phrase(Haha), Even in an action game it doesn`t mean that "get good" is "Try harder". It is all about "Try smarter". He wanna explain same thing, but in a wrong way.

Yeah we tend to say "play smarter, not harder" - which is what those games do very well (and many games like KH, GoW and NG too). But this is also a bit my issue with these Youtubers. They're just...bad writers most of the times. He says all that prose, but his conclusion is still vague.

I mean he's just bad at games, don't say that as an insult. He notes this himself, he could barely beat GoW on easy and didn't use half the mechanics since they were too hard for him. The thought of a three hit combo probably keeps him up at night. That's not something to be ashamed about in life, it just shows the type of player he is. So it's nice when a game through its mechanics allowed him to sort of 'circumvent' specific things.

That said this argument also falls flat since he admits that he only did it here, since the RPG elements so blatently allowed it. While other games also allow this, but require a bit more knowledge or effort from the player, where he immediately would start spouting "git gud" crowd nonsense in defence for his lack of trying.

I guess his prose is good and such, very well written but I feel like that doesn’t really get the message of dark souls well, since that is something that can be said for most games. It’s fine to use that as a example since it is his experience, but I always feel like those type of sentences and such come across as “DARK SOULS MASTERED DIFFICULTY SINCE ITS FAIR AND HARD” which is getting so pretentious. It also is just presented that way to your average viewer which doesn’t help. I did like his gow video IIRC.

Royta/Raeng wrote:It's nice prose, but honestly it's a bit a collection of empty words to me. What is he actually saying? At best he's noting "the game has a lot of creative freedom in its mechanics, that I don't necassarly have to learn a specific way to play but can have my build supplement my lack of gamer 'skill'".

Basically, "life is hard in an unpredictable way, but while Dark Souls is hard, it's in a controlled setting, and not unpredictable. It's just very strict, and the difference between success and failure is really thin".

I don't expect most YouTubers or essayists to get much other than scorn around here, but I find Noah's stuff to be really refreshing. They're a hell of a lot more personal than most, which oftentimes just feel like they're just checking off a list of things they have to bring up.

The only thing catched me in ubi software presentation, New 2d Prince of Persia : The lost crown


It looks quiet intersting, if it runs well in nintendo switch i`ll be happy.

TheFirmament1 wrote:Basically, "life is hard in an unpredictable way, but while Dark Souls is hard, it's in a controlled setting, and not unpredictable. It's just very strict, and the difference between success and failure is really thin".

I don't expect most YouTubers or essayists to get much other than scorn around here, but I find Noah's stuff to be really refreshing. They're a hell of a lot more personal than most, which oftentimes just feel like they're just checking off a list of things they have to bring up.

This is about how I feel. IDK, the meat of what he's saying is pretty clear to me.

Maybe it doesn't make sense out of context, but a huge part of the message in his Dark Souls video is that everyone told him he couldn't do it because he was bad at video games, and he avoided them for that reason for a long time. So imagine his surprise when he plays them and finds them hard, but not necessarily in the grueling "AGAIN! [whip crack]" way it was sold to him.

Question, do data sheets in action games really change how you play that much?

Depends what you mean. I only really consult info like that if I need the math to answer a question about a specific scenario I'm trying to lab.

What do you mean with datasheets? Like score rankings?

Mainly shit like hidden enemy health(this enemy has X amount of health but game doesn’t tell you).

Ah stuff like that. In some instances it can give some mechanical insight, like damage optimization, same as in fighting-games. That said I'm more of a 'intuition' player or w/e if you get me. I don't like 'layers' and 'frametraps'. I just push buttons on feeling and if they work they work, and if not I die for it and learn from it.

I'm curious, besides Action, what other genres do people on here tend to play for fun? I can't remember when was the last time I played a platformer, but I do like these (mostly Mega Man). Obviously I like JRPGs as well. If Zelda counts as something else besides Action, then that as well. I have some nostalgia for Crash Team Racing, but I'm not a particularly big fan of the genre (though I did hear good things about F-Zero GX).

The last few years I've basically only played action games (including shooters and ARPGs). Used to play lots of platformers back in the day, now not so much. Tried Pizza Tower recently but couldn't get into it. Never dabbled too much with JRPGs.

I've also played pretty much Action games recently, with the exception of FFV, but I just loaded some year old saves to test some things, I still haven't played it from beginning to end properly after all these years. Can also relate with your comment on platformers.

I love a good (fully turnbased) JRPG, as well as Immersive Sim (like Deus Ex Human Rev.). I also sometimes...induldge in those weird Quantic Dream games haha. Guilty pleasure.
Shooters sometimes like DOOM or Max Payne, and I enjoy the occasional puzzle game or strategy title (I just suck at them is all). Also platformers, mostly Mario. Kinda a bit of everything except sports and racing (not counting DOAX1 and FZEROGX, respectively). Also really love games like Splinter Cell, a good stealth game is like a drug.

Sometimes it's good to play something else.

Outside of action games, survival horror has to be my 2nd favourite genre (went back to SH3 recently). I also like immersive sims, rpgs (mostly oldschool wrpgs, oddly enough I don't like when rpgs mix with action). Occasionally, fighting games - mostly DOA, but I've picked up Tekken 7 not while ago. Shooters too, but I don't think anybody dislikes these.

I like platformers, some arpgs, shooters A-LOT(mainly old school), that’s mainly it.

I like a lot of fighting games (although I mostly just play casually), arcade racers, some platformers and sports games too. I've played a lot of shooters too but they're also action games to me. I've only played a couple of RPGs that I genuinely enjoyed but it's a genre I want to spend more time with.

Played a ton of JRPGs searching for perfection.

Fighters but not recently.

Horror but haven't found much good after PS2.

>Quantic Dreams
I've never heard of the term until now. A Google search tells me that it's actually a company that makes/publishes(?) games.

>shooters
Only real experience with those is RE4 (if that counts), and Counter Strike (played it more than a decade and a half ago).

>Mario
Are you interested in the new game? Not the RPG one, obviously.

>Horror
By this, do you mean survival horror games with good combat mechanics? Or pure horror (or something with relatively weak combat, but with more emphasis on horror)?

>fighters
I need to get into those someday. Is there any good title for a beginner? I've played Tekken 3 and 5, but that was years ago. Also dabbled a bit in some Mortal Kombat game for Xbox 360 with some friends.

I love horror games and highly recommend Fatal Frame, Siren and Haunting Ground - All of those have really fun gameplay that goes along well with the horror atmosphere and "scare factor".

Also played some platformers recently - Ape Escape, Mario 3D World and Klonoa - That's a genre I wanna get more into, both 2d and 3d platformers. The Jak series is also up for a replay, really fun games (though Jak 2 and 3 can be too bloated)

Also love immersive sims like Deus Ex, Dishonored and Prey - Prey has the best intro I've ever seen in a game and it's worth experiencing for that alone.

I recently played the first Ace Attorney game and loved it, and right now having a great time playing Ghost Trick.

I've really fallen into the action game hole the past few years and it's most of what I play. But I also adore metroidvanias and lately I've been trying to mix it up with games in genres I normally don't touch, like Bravely Default and Folklore.

> Is there any good title for a beginner?
Don't think there's any such thing.

Just choose one you like the look of and watch some guides.

> Fighters
Good advice from Birdman but with fighting games becoming simpler and designed more for standard controllers, I suppose the best "beginner" option is whatever the big fighting game at the time is. Before SF6 I'd have suggested Guilty Gear Strive, but SF6 is probably your best bet now. Big player base with it being cross platform and you've got the choice of going with "Modern" controls too if that's your thing. Despite them getting simpler, they're never easy. Be prepared to take your defeats as an opportunity to learn!

> beginner fighting games
Honestly, Dead or Alive. Especially the earlier games, very simple and easy to pick up. Maybe Soul Calibur afterwards or something like SF2. Great basics.

>Horror
Think the only games I've played on this genre are Sweet Home on the NES (they say this served as an inspiration for RE), and Silent Hill 1. Maybe RE4 as well, but outside of the chainsaw enemies on my first couple of playthroughs, the "Horror" aspect wasn't all that scary (especially with Leon and others throwing one liners left and right).

>Fatal Frame
Heard good things about this. I think it's in my backlog as well. The others, I'm not as familiar with (relatively speaking).

>Ace Attorney
Almost forgot about this (even if this is the biggest case of irony you may have seen). Always play them at least once every year.

>Ghost Trick
The only thing I didn't like about it is how much it took me to notice and play it. Great pick.

>Bravely Default
Would be curious to hear more about this, since it tries to be like V (my favorite turn based title).

>no such thing as an entry level fighter
Oh well. It is what it is.

>looks
In that case, I may go for familiarity. I forgot what others have said about Tekken 7 relative to the quality of other games.

Forgot to mention that I did play other fighters, particularly anime fighters. DBZ Budokai 3, Tenkaichi 2 and 3, and some weird GT game for PS1, I think that one had stats or something.

>the biggest fighter of the time
Problem is that I don't own a current gen console. Or even a modern console (closest to that would be a 3DS, and for a non-handheld, a PS2). Can't emulate things beyond PS2 games, either.

>Be prepared to take your defeats as an opportunity to learn!
You reminded me of an amusing tale that GMG once told me about when playing Tekken with somebody else. Got to be prepared for trash talking if playing against him, heh.

>DoA
The name sounds familiar. Is this the series that had some involvement from Itagaki?

>Soul Calibur
That's also familiar to me. I think I did play that, or some other thing called Bloody Roar. Not sure which one. Played for 5 minutes tops, probably playing for somebody else.

>no such thing as entry level fighter
That's just how I see it.

Though I'm not too sure on the definition. Just being easy to play? Or having an extensive training mode?

> Soul Calibur
Seeing as you said you can emulate up to PS2, play the Gamecube version of Soul Calibur 2. It's one of the better single player fighting games with it's Weapon Master mode and it's also got Link as a guest character. The weapons have different properties so it's fun unlocking them to see what they do. Great visuals and soundtrack too, just an all-round banger really. Namco at their best.

> Entry level fighter
I think Birdman is right, it's hard to pick one as beginner friendly when a lot of the difficulty comes down to how good your opponent is. I suppose in terms of execution something like DoA might be a good pick though. DoA2 should be fairly easy to emulate and it's a great fighter.

> No new consoles
I'm not sure how many beginner players use it, but check out Fightcade for PC. It's a sort of social/matchmaking program that includes emulators popular for fighting games. It basically covers near enough everything Capcom and SNK ever released as well as stuff like Dreamcast and Sega Naomi games (Soul Calibur 1 and DoA2 included). The idea is that you can use Fightcade to play the classics online against other users.

We can invite other people to this server right?

The more the merrier, shout it from the rooftops that this site exists I'd say.

> weird GT game ps1
Final Bout?

> DoA
Yeah Dead or Alive 2, by the same team as Ninja Gaiden. DoA2 Ultimate on the Xbox or DoA2 on the PS2 are fantastic fighting games, play this nearly weekly.

> SC2
Very good singleplayer modes yeah. IIRC SC3 also has good singleplayer content.

>DOA
Yeah, running Y on Dragon sword in NG looks a lot like Hayabusa's K+F, K+F move from DOA3, sadly no hand stand in NG for Ryu. There also cross-over characters, apparently DOA and NG are in shared universe.

It's by far the easiest game to learn in terms of inputs. Sadly, it's not that popular like current hot releases and it doesn't have that much singleplayer content.

>no such thing as entry level fighter
Pretty much, there are translatable fundamental concepts that speed up the learning process, but with new fighter it's always learning the input, match-ups, punishes etc. So there is always some kind of threshhold and learning is constant.

> doa singleplayer
Depends honestly. I really enjoyed unlocking all the game-content, which set me back about 20~ hours of gametime in DoA2U. If you can emulate a 3ds, then DoA: Dimensions is fantastic. A great entry into fighting games.

> shared universe
Jup! Ayane, Kasumi and later even Momoji and Rachel are all there. It also showcases just how much of a monster Ryu is in terms of power-scaling in his setting; guy is in a completely different ballpark than everyone else.

> handstand
Sadly gifted to Hayate from DoA4 and onwards iirc. Such a fun stance though.

Time to reply to something everyone moved on from:

>genres besides action
Sidescrollers(Mega Man, Contra), random JRPGs(MegaTen, Persona, various FFs, Star Ocean) and platformers mostly.

>beginner fighting game
I immediately think of Soul Calibur. Such a great series.

>just being easy to play?
Kind of. Was thinking something along the lines of picking up a character whose moveset doesn't take a century to master, but with good fundamentals nonetheless.

>SC praise
Into the list it goes, then. Thanks for the recommendation, everyone.

>Link
As in, the Nintendo character? That Link?

>Fightcade
Never heard of it, but I got curious about your description. Definitely going to check it out later. Thanks.

>Final Bout
The very same.

>made by the original NG devs
Very interesting. The fact that one of these titles happen to be on PS2 (and is also a good title to boot) is great news. Going to add that to my PS2 backlog (it isn't that big, it's just that I'm taking my sweet time with each title I've been playing as of yet).

>emulate a 3DS
I just happen to own this, and it would be good to play something on the original hardware for a change.

>Ryu is stronger than everyone else
So in-universe, everything he faces is pretty much fodder to him (when it comes to the cutscenes, after he's done)?

>MegaTen
SMT?

And would you count the CV games? Post SotN (something I've yet to play as well), mostly.

>non-action games
I used to pretty much exclusively play ARPGs like Path of Exile and Warframe but many years of content bloat and having less free time/energy to play games pushed me away from the genre. I really like CRPGs in theory but I'm still burnt out from Pathfinder: Kingmakers 150hr run time. I played persona 5 a couple months ago and while it was fun I don't really have the patience for games that long anymore. other than RPGs I've started playing shmups recently (as in last week) and have mostly been playing Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu which I havent even 1cc'd yet but I'm really enjoying the game, wish I could elaborate further but I don't really have the knowledge to provide an informed opinion yet.

>Kind of. Was thinking something along the lines of picking up a character whose moveset doesn't take a century to master, but with good fundamentals nonetheless.
No moveset in any FG requires this, not even Tekken.

Then there's this. Ok sure, 10 moves are easier to remember than 100. But even though stuff like SF has small movesets, the applications can add up to God knows how many situations. You can know how to do a special move but when to use it is another story. And then you have to deal with how your moveset works vs the rest of the cast.

So I don't see a small or easy to do moveset saving you really.

Go look up videos of various fighting games in action and just choose the one that looks coolest to you.
Note that there are some where the controller limits you on advanced movement like in Tekken and an arcade stick would be ideal.

My advice for getting into fighting games is that you will lose a LOT and be frustrated a LOT, not just as a beginner but for as long as you play fighting games. Find a game and/or character you love enough to put up with all the frustration, and if you do that, then it won't matter how hard it is.

The other advice is keep it as simple as possible. People love to overthink in fighting games. Don't try to learn a whole character at once, just make a basic gameplan of a few moves and go play and have fun. Your gameplan will gradually evolve as you add stuff to it a little bit at a time. A character being "hard" just means that the road of evolution will be longer.

>fighters
Little drive to really learn or play without local head to head so I can shit-talk properly. T7 will probably be my last as such. I'll still observe T8, SF6, etc., but just not as closely.

>DOA singleplayer
It suffers like any fighting game form opponents AI, which is poor substitute for real player. It also can't be compared to singleplayer modes of SC, Tekken and even Mortal Kombat. However, mechanics are definitely enjoyable and I still like learning different characters. And pre-renders are just beautiful.

>DOA:Dimensions
Missed that one (and NG: Dragon sword too)

>Mighty Dragon Ninja
He's the most powerful in-game and in-lore character (DOA tournaments take place after NG, I think), his power scalling is bit weird, since other martial arts users with no ninjutsu powers can also keep up with him.

>Handstand
It's gone I think. Hayate has his own stance, Hayate-Gake. ironically, closest thing to it, is probably Brad's handstand, but it works bit differently.

>Tekken's controls
Playing it feels like learning to use controller anew.

>Tekken with pad
This is the way I likes it. At least, I enjoyed it with DS3. DS4 was trash (horrible d-pad). I don't hear great things about DS5. My sparring partner got tired of jobbing with pad and switched to jobbing with stick.

>DS3
It always feels like it's going to break anytime due to its cheap plastic when I'm using it and I could never get used to analogue sensitivity on it compared to DS4. Never tried gimmickcontroller 5. Shame, I always wanted to make my inputs less reliable in-favour of some passing selling point!

> Ryu power
It's more shown in the cutscenes of Dimensions, which is sort of a recap. Despite being the sole heirs to those special powers, Hayate and Kasumi can barely hold off Genra. Only for Ryu to just HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA into the fight and clap him.

The series is filled with weird scaling though, just full rule of cool.

> Tekken / Controller
I played most of my Tekken on the PS1/PS2 pads. Went to Xbox 360 after that and played T6/Tag 2 on one of those Sega Saturn style SFIV fightpads, which were great. I play all fighters on stick now just for the arcade feeling, but Tekken has always been good on pad.

Agree with GMG, I cannot stand the DS4/Dualsense for fighters, but there are a lot of competitive players who swear by the DS4. I really don't get it though.

> non-action game

I am a huge fan of stealth ... action game(lol). But you know, It`s very different from melee fighting action games.

Splinter cell and MGS are most famous, so I tell those first. I think that Splinter Cell : Chaos theory and Splinter Cell : Blacklist is the best two of this series. Chaos Theory executed slow but tense play loop very well, Blakclist uses modern predator style stealth mechanisms, but its mechanism is well balanced and level design is good, too.

So, MGS3~5 is very intersting games. I played MGS1 and 2 recently, but it feels a little bit simple in current view.

Ah, and also hitman series. It has conventional stealth elements, but more leans onto camoflage as someone else and use many items to make "an accident" to kill enemies

As for speaking classic and indies, Thief 2 has many great moments and still stand tall even now. Styx series get the sprit of thief, and especially the map of 2(Shards of darkness) is fantastic. Sniper Elite 4 & 5 has a good dynamic of cat and mouse play, because at a certain time you have to snipe someone and it makes a loud sound.

2D stealth games... hmm... There are Mark Of Ninja and Wildfire. Wildfire is a very good game, I highly recommend this one.

MGS1 is mechanically a 2D stealth game. Becomes more obvious when you compare it to its compatriots, Metal Gear 2 and Metal Gear Ghost Babel, both of which are awesome btw.