Doom: Eternal

Didn't know you were a pharmacy manager man, must be tough going right now. Long hours? I'm currently AD at a company that makes online-training courses for multiple target audiences, one being pharmacists haha! Small world.

I worded that poorly, I’m not a pharmacy manager, but I manage the front end of a pharmacy. I do still have to go back there to help them fill, ring out customers, support the pharmacist, etc. so the last week I have been coming into close contact with a much higher number of sick and paranoid people than I normally do. I work 9-10 hour shifts but I’m taking the week off on the next schedule I make because I want to avoid what’s going on right now.

>small world

Indeed, probably a lot of material you and I both see, haha. Any idea when you go back to work, or is it just for the foreseeable future atm?

Pardon my ignorance, but the front-end? As in the web-side of things, or what do you mean by it?

Can imagine it is quite hectic. Shops are nearly deserted here, restaurants just all closed yesterday as well as schools. People are buying everything en-mass. Thankfully me and my wife are quite level-headed, so we're fine and still in good health.

> material
Good chance we do haha. I also make a lot of courses for other audiences (notaries, accountants, teachers, ministers etc.), but pharmasists are our largest audience. The site is atrocious, but the content is good. I mean, of course it is, I make the visuals in the content after all haha!

Here's a translated link, should give you some insight haha: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cme-online.nl%2Fapotheker%2Fcursusoverzicht

> future
No clue. I'm working from home all days except mondays due to some stuff I really have to do at the office on that day. Other than that, we'll see how it goes. Since most of my work is dependant on collegues...expect a lot more Stinger from me with a little luck haha! What about you? I can imagine it's a tad scary working with so many paranoid and also sick people. Be safe man.

We only have 8 confirmed cases here, all people who recently came from overseas. Massive restrictions are in effect now, including banning travel from certain countries, cruise ships, and anyone allowed in must isolate for 14 days or be deported.

The only thing out of stock here is hand sanitizer and anti-bacterial handwash though I still see it around.

I work with mentally ill clients in the community so I'm outside many times a week. Just trying to avoid anyone who looks sick and wash my hands frequently. It's all I can really do. Can't work from home and taking my annual leave wouldn't matter because I still have to leave the house and the virus will still be around when my leave is over.

>front end

It just means that the front of the pharmacy is a drug/convenience store. I manage that but support the pharmacy as much as possible(like I have to help them fill tomorrow morning for probably ~2 hours).

>people buying things en-masse

Same here, for some reason everyone is buying bread. I went to a grocery store last night and it was packed and a lot of stuff was gone, so I went to one a few blocks away and it was still stocked but the bread aisle was empty. I don’t get it.

>materials

Interesting site. It doesn’t seem to work right on my phone but I’ll check it out on my laptop when I get home!

How many people are at your office? Yeah work is a little stressful with how cautious I always have to be and people having a complete lack of self-awareness as to what’s going on...they come in with cold symptoms sometimes and don’t even cover their coughs or sneezes. It can be exhausting. Can’t imagine what nurses and other similar professionals are going through.

@Birdman understandable, thankfully you're basically on an island so it is quite easy to avoid and keep it out, comparitavely that is. When Belgium closed all their cafe's, they just went to our country, it's nuts. But yeah you can expect it to last quite a while.

@Infinity

I tend to go to a backery and just order bread, and pick it up the next day. Works for me, but a lot of people are panic buying it seems. Canned food and pasta especially.

> office
We're about 100 people I think spread across Netherlands and Germany. The link is just a translated page to give you an idea using Google Translate. Things like courses on COPD etc. Really feel for the nurses etc, they'll have a lot of unfriendly clients right now you can be sure of that.

Things are starting to get pretty hectic around here. We still have our schools open, as well as restuarants/bars/clubs, but the government are pushing working from home and avoiding as much unnecessary social activity as possible. The company I work for hasn't been as prepared as they should be with regards to getting everybody set up to work from home, but they're getting there. They plan to start a "split working" arrangement, where they will split teams in to (roughly) halves, and have one half work in the office and the other work at home, and then they'll rotate each work where possible. I'm not so sure how effective this will be at preventing the virus from spreading if one of our colleagues gets it, but we'll just have to see.

I hope things stay manageable for you guys. Stay safe!

Some tourists just got detained and will be deported for being assholes and not isolating upon arrival. Good riddance.

I think we need a virus topic lol.

Let's keep this back to doom talk, I am going to make a Corona thread in Social.

Found this video of the creator of Brutal DOOM that perfectly explains why I hate the new DOOMs. I have literally been wearing a classic DOOM hoodie for the past 5 years, people constantly ask about the new DOOM and I have to go, yeah not a fan. I hate the forced spawn arenas, I hate glory kills punishing you for killing enemies with the weapons, and I hate getting damaged coming out of it.
I do love the movement and shooting mechanics, but the baseline game annoys the shit out of me. This is the problem I have with Nioh as well. I hate not being able to enjoy games I know are technically well made.  

Agreed, I saw you made a topic about it so we can move the virus discussion to there, here's the link: https://stinger.actieforum.com/t549-that-rona-apocoalypse-thread#10283

Regarding new-doom. Let's be clear, it isn't Doom. It's Quake, or even more Duke at times. Hell it feels more like Painkiller than classic Doom to me. Despite what people say, DOOM3 was more classic DOOM than this. But I do think that's important to note that DOOM has always been quite versatile in its gameplay and setting. Disregarding DOOM II which is basically a map-pack slapped on a floppydisc with a new numeral at the end, every DOOM game has been re-inventing the wheel to some extent.

The first game was the classic, Doom 3 had a higher emphasis on scare tactics, shadows and (at high level play) mobility. Doom 64 mixed 3 and 1's aesthetics together in a sense, providing a more horror approach as well while keeping the originals gameplay. And Doom16 just went full action.

I know I like to compare it to Ninja Gaiden since the gameplay loop is, imo, very similar in Eternal and 2016, but that series also had that. Every game has a new vision, tries something else and keeps it fresh. Eternal is a break of this mold by instead grabbing what the previous game did and perfecting it, akin to DOOM II. It's a glorified map-pack, a very expensive map-pack with tons of extras.

The downside is, is that with the way markets work these days, this is probably going to be the end of it. Until its sales crash, DOOM will probably remain stuck in this mold unless Hugo Martin really has the balls I hope he has.

I do wish the glorykills were changed a tad and that kill-rooms weren't so prevalent. Though I hate the setting, Foundry was really the only 'Doom' level to a certain regard. Fact that most veteran players completely ignore Glorykills shows just how bad the mechanic was once you broke it down.

So yeah, I see where you're coming from. Still, can't wait for the game.

I've never really even considered trying Brutal DOOM. I personally don't see much appeal in turning the classic DOOM experience into something completely different. I'm also not really a fan of "crank the gore up to 11 for the sake of it". Some games have the gameplay to back it up and others don't.

New DOOM is a very different beast, but at least it doesn't replace the old school DOOM we know and love. If they made a new DOOM in the style of the 90s classics now, with retro visuals and no vertical aiming, it'd be a hit with the indie crowd, but you wouldn't find it in every gamer's collection. I suppose the only option this leaves id Software is to try and innovate.

The part where he said the DOOM 3 multiplayer movement was faster than 16 was crazy. Also the part comparing it to serious sam. Shit just spawns in everywhere and so you just have to constantly move or you'll get tagged. Classic DOOM is this great dance, and IMO feels much more like NG. If you watch 16 speedrunners it's like, ok this demon is gonna spawn here so shotgun him, then 180 to kill this spawn etc.. You can know everything about NG2 and that shit can still get on top of you because the AI is so unpredictable and frantic.
I will play it one day on a $10 sale. Curious to see sales numbers with everyone at home.

I just pre-ordered, and am now pre-loading.

Hope this is worth it...

@Gregorinho

Yeah Brutal Doom never really appealed to me either, it's cool that it's possible and the modding potential of Doom on display is fantastic, but I played it for a bit and that was it. Only thing I enjoyed was Brutal ChexQuest, which is just hilarious.

Though I do feel a game more in line with classic DOOM would be interesting as well. I think DOOM64 returning is a good way to see something like that take shape. I can imagine it might take people away, but having a shooter (with vertical aiming, since you can't escape that) using auto-aim (akin to Metroid Prime?), with an emphasis on enviromental storytelling, maze-like maps etc - I think it would be cool. If necessary, start on a budget, see if it find an audience, I'm sure it will.

There's a lot of games that follow the Quake design, like Amid Evil(?) and some others, but I can't remember recent DOOM clones honestly. Ion Fury was mostly a Duke clone if anything.

@Hedfone
Doom3 movement feels faster, period. I really feel that the Doom Slayer's movement speed is too slow. He is a tad faster in Eternal, and has the dash now, but it also all feels a tad backwards. These games always had fantastic movement mechanics, which made movement in games like DOOM and Quake so interesting, but that's mostly gone here - it's very spelled out. On the otherhand, it again opens up more doors. Quake's movement was so complex I think only 1% of its users finished the movement tutorial, which is nuts.

But I understand your frustration, you in a sense lost a game because it is now this, for ever and ever (until it flops).

> 16 speedrunners
I disagree a tad here. While in a sense that's true, if I speedrun NGII and don't hold back on overpoweredness, the only time you see me think on my feet is when I make a mistake and shit hits the fan (or when I fight Gigadeath, fuck him) - which can also easily happen in D16, though you can generally control fights early on. But later encounters can get really dangerous on Nightmare.



Now about the release, please be mindful of spoilers. I know that that's a given, but keep spoiler-weapons, plot twists etc to yourself. Though gameplay is a focus here, just throwing that out to be sure. I'll be playing most of tomorrow and the weekend, so expect some notes from me at the very least!

I find a lot of action game speed runs to be a mix of gimping spawns and reactions, with mostly an emphasis on the former. A lot of 2D action games are like that as well. I definitely prefer how classic Doom handled its enemy placements and level design but the combat shift in the newer games suits how these things are presented IMO.

>spoilers

If this game doesn’t have a life-changing story about the human condition then I’m returning it.

You almost certainly won't need this, but if you (Somehow) get bored of Mick Gordon's OST for combat, I've thrown together a playlist containing some pretty angry metal songs.

Quick note that a few of them do take a while to get going, sometimes up to a minute and a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkSnW9D61kSo6yQWxBqZAi00Z4IRLzajM

(Shotgun Justice has to be the most fitting name for a song to play to DOOM I've ever heard. And just because I give these my endorsement for playing DOOM to, that does not mean I suggest listening to the entire album. I'm specifically referencing God Hates Us All.)

Reason about the spoilers is that apparently there's a huge plottwist that turns the series canon upside down from what I heard. Might just be dumb hearsay or an easter egg taken way out of context, but I'd rather experience it myself.

And cheers FIrma! I probably won't need it, but i'll listen to it during work :)

Oddly enough, I don't think I've ever played any of the pre-reboot Doom games apart from a few hours of Doom 3, which I found really shallow and aggravating. But it's interesting to hear some old-school fans like hedfone being critical of the reboot. There are plenty of other series where I find myself on the disappointed purist side of things, so I can definitely empathize!

Anyway, I really liked the 2016 reboot and I'm looking forward to diving headfirst into Eternal in a few hours. I hope the purists can get something out of it, at least!

I'm in both camps generally, I love D16, but also D1, 2 and 3. Cannot wait for Eternal, but I'll play it tomorrow morning when I'm fresh and fully awake haha. Expect notes tomorrow. You excited too?

Regarding Doom 3. It's a very, very different game. But I have a lot of love for it and what it was trying to go for, there's pretty distinctive vision behind it that I find interesting, and high level Nightmare play is absolutely fantastic.

I won't post spoilers, but I skimmed the cut scenes/ending... Don't get too excited lol.
Also the final boss has a tutorial pop up right before it telling you how beat it. How sad is that.

Played a few hours of the PS4 version. First impressions:


The game actually forces you to create a Bethesda account right at the start before even accessing the main menu. If there's a workaround to this, I haven't found it. Nothing puts me in the mood for some good old video game escapism like feeling the cold fingers of unfettered corporatism wrap themselves around my neck.  

Sound design is superb, very much like the first one. Both soundtrack and sound effects are impeccable.

Game is tough, I died at least half a dozen times on the first level. One thing I've noticed is that the basic imps are much less of a pushover this time around. Their fireballs in particular are a lot more difficult to dodge and do a substantial amount of damage. Interesting. NB: I picked Ultra-Violence (Hard) at the beginning, so YMMV.

Frame rate is rock solid.

Tutorials can be disabled.

Not a big fan of some of the new environmental elements. You can / sometimes have to use some iron bars in mid-air to propel yourself across a chasm. But it's the kind of shallow, scripted stuff you would find in Uncharted or something and there are several of those just in the first level. Ditto with the new wall-climbing mechanic that only gets in the way of the action for absolutely no good reason as far as I can tell. And some of the walls shoot fireballs, too. (???)

The forced combat arenas return, although without the central nest beacon thingy. I don't have too much of a problem with it, but it might be disappointing to some.

The enemy variety is very good so far. The AI has a few new variables, for example the Cacodemon will sometimes leave his mouth open which gives you the opportunity to throw a grenade in it for massive damage. I don't remember that being possible in the first one, although I could be wrong on that.

Personally, I prefer the derelict space station / hellish underworld aesthetics of the first one. I hope the game has more in store because the first level is a bit drab in comparison.

Oh for fuck's sake.

I have to update this damn thing before I can even start it up? Seriously? And judging what was said above, I can't even escape by going offline, because it requires a Bethesda account. Nevermind, I just remembered I have one. But still.

Way to kill the momentum before the game even started.

Really loving the first 5 hours I’ve played.
-The dash alone adds a lot to each encounter- using it after a glory kill to get space, dashing under a hell knight’s lunge, closing distance for a blood punch, etc are all great uses.
-Blood punch is surprisingly good against bigger enemies and there’s now a payoff to multiple glory kills in a row.
-Ice grenades are the truth.
-The stupidly OP runes seem to be gone. Blood fueled+liberal use of dash is letting me run circles around most enemies.
-Weakpoints can be destroyed with any weapon, I’ve blown off both arms of a Mancubus with shotgun grenades, which is fantastic.
-The plasma rifle seems like it got a buff, I really only used it for stun bomb in the last game but I’m actually using its standard fire here.
-The light environmental hazards are a nice touch, but not very deep so far.
-Holy hell, this game has a lot going on. Cheats, challenges, master levels, costumes, collectibles, etc, etc. What console generation is this, again?

Very happy with this so far, could really end up being one of the greats for me.

>imps not a pushover this time

I’m finding them easier than in the last game personally. They don’t seem quite as mobile and the tracking on their charged fireball isn’t as extreme(although I always played the last game on Nightmare and I started this UV so this could change).

I dunno, I find the environmental hazards to be pretty annoying. Catching some dumb fireball from the wall always distracts me from fighting the actual enemies. It gets old very quickly, especially considering how much there is to keep track of in this game when fighting multiple enemies.

Infinity_Divide wrote:>imps not a pushover this time

I’m finding them easier than in the last game personally. They don’t seem quite as mobile and the tracking on their charged fireball isn’t as extreme(although I always played the last game on Nightmare and I started this UV so this could change).

Oh, that's interesting. I don't think I ever played the first one on Nightmare so this might be the reason why!

Not a fan of the purple stuff. It just slows you the fuck down, and doesn't even let you jump. And it doesn't really seem that there's a way to totally get past it, beyond jumping at the edge, and then dashing a couple of times to get as far as you can into the lake.

Blood Fueled is completely insane. I'm always trying to get as many executions as possible, so I can just keep running around like I'm playing Titanfall 2 at max speed.

Played until mission 5 I think. So far, very happy with my purchase. Few notes:

- bethesda account is a 'whatever' from me. I don't mind it, it's annoying, but it is probably the only way to easily check what games you own. So I can live with it.
- multiplayer is a bore imo, played it for about 10 minutes. Might have an interesting meta, but I'll stick to something like Quake.
- Game is absolutely swarming with combat options...yet also very little. I feel the game is too busy forcing you to have fun to give absolute freedom in combat. As Hedfone noted, bosses even start with a tutorial on how to kill them, which is just nuts. There's little health, ammo and armour pickups, to force you to use the kill methods related to getting them. You're constantly juggling kill-options, which is neat, but you do it because the game forces you too, which feels weird if you get me.
- The whole dismemberment thing is great, though it again feels very ... forced? I like the tactical choice behind it, but on the other hand every enemy now has a clear 'best way' from the get go. You grenade cacodemons. You use the zoom-shot against mancubus arms. There's a sort of rythm to it. I like it. And I dislike it haha!
- level design is off the charts. First level is very 'call of duty' in how generic it is, but after that it really ramps up. Every mission since then has been a joy to explore and visually pleasing. Secrets are well done as well and I like the Slayer Rooms. They are especially challenging. Started on Ultra Violence and one room really nuked me hard. Took quite some attempts to finish, but my blood was pumping the whole time. Some levels really take me back to classic-doom in their aesthetic.
- hazards are fun to use as Infinity noted. Nothing special so far, but good fun.
- the game just keeps throwing stuff at you man. Then a grenade. Then freeze grenade. Then flamethrower. Then costumes. Runes. Challenges. It's a lot to take in at times.
- the warp after you complete a level is neat, allows you to go secret hunting.

Overal, great game, really enjoy it. Lots of weird choices too though that I might dislike in the future somewhat, but the overal gameplay loop is fantastic.

Imps seem more fodder this time around, but those eh...snakes? With the whips. Hot dang they will end up being the Incendiary Shuriken Ninjas of this game.

Oh but the life-system is ass imo. I find it fun to collect 1Ups, but reloading a checkpoint voids the ones you lost. Making it a really...weird system.

I definitely agree about the game forcing you into some tactics, I feared this back when they first showed the plasma rifle destroying shields.

I’m really big on enemy reactions in action games and it’s disappointing to still see enemies not react to stuff like rockets and micro missiles. If enemies reacted to things in different ways there would be more to movement rather than “sprint around frantically while creating an opening”.

Even with the first boss having a pop up telling you how to win, the fight was still incredibly fun and satisfying I think.

It was a great fight for sure. The king of the game right now are the Slayer Maps though for me, they really toy in a fun way with the enemy layouts to create unique and wacky combat scenarios. The best new foe by far is the shield-generator dude, smart design.

Regarding the enemies and how to kill them, it's a tad akin to Sekiro now that I think about it. Shield? Plasma. Spider? Shoot turret with sniper round. Etc. Simon says. Not necesarrily bad though, Sekiro was crippled because that was all it had.

I just wish shields for instance would instantly vanish to the Not-Gauss, instead they don't.

Regarding @hedfone's fears though, the game isn't the same as D16 for me. Levels are better, better secrets, combat is more fun and most importantly you really cannot spawn-abuse. Enemies don't teleport in in clear places and there's simply way too many of them and they tend to be super mobile. So you can sort of play it NG2 style.

Just beat one of the Slayer rooms. Goddamn, that was tough. Actually, the game's pretty tough in general, definitely moreso than 2016.

Game's fun, but I think it's running into the Bayonetta 2 problem of relying too much on one mechanic. Where in Bayonetta 2 it was Witch-time, it's Glory Kills here. I find myself using those, and the chainsaw so much more than in 2016. And with all the time being spent in a locked-in-place first person animation, I'm getting a tinge of Thief 2014, which... Is not something you want.

Who remembers that old Doom movie? At one point it goes into first person. I just watched that scene on YT. That part was actually pretty good.

> Doom movie
Fantastic fun honestly, weird, but I remember seeing it in theaters and having a good time. The FPS-segment was pure gold.

> the game
Yeah it really forces you down a playstyle, but honestly, the pressure you're on is so good, it's pretty neat. I think if you view it seperate from 2016 it is just a fantastic combat system. I honestly cannot wait to get back into it.

>Regarding @hedfone's fears

It looks significantly better than 16 in game-play videos. The dash is huge and helps my movement complaints of 16. I think the hud looks terrible though. It is so weird to see these bright pink and purple colors and you are fighting hell demons?
I will definitely play it one day when it is cheap. I will play nioh 2 when it comes to pc. Hell maybe I will even one day play Dad of War and Death Stranding. They are just on the most back of back burners for me. No matter how much I feel I know a game, I still enjoy saying I gave it a chance, just not for full price these days lol.

Note that you can customize the HUD, in fact, the entire game is scarily customizable. Everything from FPS settings, video settings, customized resolutionscaling, unlockable icons, hud-color, what the hud displays, everything. You can even customize how bright and colourful armour and ammo drops are.

Oh damn that's nice

Few more thoughts...

-Some of the weapon issues I had from the last game were resolved(somewhat) but others are reappearing. The chain gun is great now, high damage and deals good hitstun, but it completely overshadows the heavy cannon. Balancing ammo between ballista and plasma rifle is actually a thing unlike how it was between the gauss cannon and PR in the last game, but the BFG is still a dumb win button.
-I’ve never liked cooldowns in games for offensive measures and this game is reminding me of why. I feel as if every fight I’m going in with a rotation of my tools in mind, rather than a different plan for the encounter, with improvisation as needed. Fight starts->ice grenade->shoot and glory kill->dash around and shoot with flame belch->blood punch->ice grenade is refilled so now it’s time to start the process over. The chainsaw only adds to this since you’re now forced to use it, which I think is redundant seeing as how every encounter seems to have an endless number of fodder enemies who you’ll always have enough fuel for.
-Both of these things being said, the game is still crazy fun and feels wonderful to play. I think this will just be one of those games(like the last one) that I’ll think, “yeah it’s flawed as hell, but damn is it fun”.

The Heavy Cannon is mostly useful for the sniper-shot now imo, and I think it deals more damage per shot which is worth something in the ammo-conservation world of Doom Eternal.

I agree on the cooldowns. Personally I'd say, let them have a cooldown that's pretty short (1 minute?) and in that time you can still use it but their power is a lot weaker or something. That or just nerf them slightly. One cooldown is fine, but right now you're juggling 4+ which is just nuts to me.

One minor gripe, really weird, but I dislike how the Frag and Ice grenade only have different icon colors on the Default UI. Really messes with me.

>heavy cannon deals more damage per shot

I’ve tried to use its standard fire since I got the chain gun and it seems like it takes longer to kill, but i haven’t messed with it much.

>juggling 4+

It’s like an MMO or something, it feels strange to have to go fish for ammo so often but then we have four separate meters for cooldowns. I wouldn’t mind if the ammo cap was increased and a couple of these cooldowns shared a meter or something.

>UI

The whole thing is a mess to me. I need to tinker with it.

>juggling 4+
Sounds Like GOW18

So, I'm really enjoying this so far. The combat loop is extremely satisfying and you have to stay on your toes at all times. I've gone for Ultra-Violent difficulty for my first run, and it's a great challenge.

The extra mobility options are superb, to the point where I might struggle to go back to other shooters! I'm sure many will complain that it's just not DOOM, and they're entitled to feel that way, but I love it. It makes me feel like I'm playing an FPS version of a Capcom/Platinum action title in some ways.

I can see the ol' depth vs complexity argument coming up again at some point. As said by a few of you, you are heavily encouraged to fight each enemy in a certain way, so there hasn't been a whole lot of depth (so far). I really like the extra complexity of the combat though, you have so many options and toys to play with. It's really refreshing to play an FPS where there's more expected of you in terms of managing your toolkit.

It seems like there are going to be loads of enemy types by the end of the game, which goes nicely with all the options you have. It's pretty insane how much there is to unlock and customise. I've heard that game is quite lengthy by modern FPS standards, so I'm glad to know I've still got a lot more to experience (I've just completed the mission where you find the super shotty).

@Infinity

The HC's headshots are still worth it I'd say, but I'm really diving more into the Gattling Gun now too, the shield is just fantastic. I think the meter is a good idea, would've made it a tad more managable. If I want to belch four times, let me.

@hedfone
Think the biggest difference is we're talking seconds here, not minutes or hours. GoW went way overboard imo with its massive 5-10 minute CDs. Basically meaning you only used them once. Here you are at least constantly using them, but it is less than ideal yeah.

@Gregorinho
The mobility is nuts, I think even things like Painkiller will be a tad weird to get back to. Though I do miss the classic strafe-jumping. That said, this is almost just as fun, it is simpler sure, but there's a lot going on. I think as we delve in more we might find a tad more freedom, but only when fully upgraded. For instance I now always destroy the turrets on the spiders with my shotty-grenade, because I need that for 'mastery'. We'll see!

Note that you're barely 1/5th of the way in, it really is a huge game.

>many will complain it’s not Doom

There’s a lot of these complaints already. I find the platforming complaints to be overblown, honestly. These sections are over so quickly.

>depth vs complexity

There’s definitely an argument to be made here about this game in this regard, but it’s not as glaring as something like Sekiro. The shield guys for example: yeah you’re “supposed” to use the plasma rifle, but everything else works too. In the past few fights I haven’t had the time to swap to the plasma rifle for them specifically so I just nuke them with a shotgun grenade or tear through them with the chainsaw for ammo instead of using it on a regular undead. And I have no problem just stunlocking a Mancubus to death with the chaingun  instead of swapping to the heavy cannon to hit their weak point every time.

>super shotty

Meathook seems great against whiplashes!

Got to the complex, and just beat the Slayer gate there. These Slayer gates as a whole are awesome. They're generally pretty challenging, and are super satisfying to overcome.

>Meathook
I've been using this thing a lot less than I should... I've mainly been using the thing for when I'm pretty sure there are still a few enemies around, but I can't tell where they are.

I HIGHLY suggest getting air control. It allows for so much more mobility than the default, and it makes parkouring around environment hazards to be a fair bit easier. My personal setup is Blood-Fueled, Air Control, and Seek and Destroy. The last one is actually pretty good for acting like an extra dash, and makes sure that if enemies crowd around the guy you stunned, you can just zip right through them automatically instead of running into them.

> platforming
Way overblown. Goes to show that nobody played that far to complain about the underwater sections. Now those are ass.
The platforming is harmless, lasts less than a minute, fast, easy, allows for more creative secrets. Though that said, most secrets are pretty easy especially with the map and warp. Haven't missed one yet and also have the hidden weapon now. Just reached the 'point of no return'.

> unlocks
Took a look at Milestones, the game has a freak'n ingame reward for a No Upgrade Run. Martin. Come on bro. Why. Why you have to be one of us.

> meathook
It gets better @Firma when you upgrade it fully, once it becomes the Flamehook everything killed by it drops heaps of armourpieces.

> barrels of fun
Note that you can unlock the ability to respawn barrels, and respawn barrels can drop ammo if another upgrade. Infinite ammo for the win.

> depth vs complexity
I can argue now that, especially in Master Levels and the last two slayer gates, all that goes out the window. Sometimes you simply don't have time to swap and need to go for AoE, so the perfect solution is sometimes avoided in favour of not dying if that makes a lick of sense haha. Also yeah as Infinity noted, you don't have to do it, it is just the best option for a quick kill. I mostly chainsaw shields now unless I can overload them near foes.

> mods
Air Control is absolutely fantastic. I'm rocking air-control, the one that recharges equipment faster and the speedboost. I admit to finding most of the other mods to be lacking. Bullet-time is neat, but not my cup of tea, and it removes mods in the air iirc.

> weapons
Only weapon I'm not really using is Plasma currently. Might have to give it a shot, maybe when upgraded?

> plot
Story is pretty neat actually, reading most of the logs and the plot twist is pretty fun. Shit's basically fanfiction at this point, but I like it.

> marauder
I'm sure you'll all reach this point eventually, but I admit to not liking this enemy. Of all the foes, he IS restrictive. I've derped around a bit into finding a method of killing him smartly, but I honest to god haven't a clue outside of the way the tutorial tells you, which is finicky at best.

@TheFirmament1, all things considered, happy with the game? You ordered it pretty last minute iirc.

@everyone, if you have the PC version, we can give each-other boosters for more XP haha! Let's go!

>Platforming
Don't understand the complaints for this one either. We have all these extra movement abilities that add to our combat repertoire, may as well take advantage of that, and allow for more open-ended levels.

>Bullet Time
I've used it as well, pretty useful for getting shot on weakpoints with the heavy cannon's sniper mode. It doesn't disable mods. It just slows time down while also activating whatever mod you have.

>The game
Yep. It's good. I've got some problems with it, but I forget all that when I'm thrown in an arena full of things to kill.

I'm not really a fan of the Marauder, especially when you're fighting one amongst a group of other enemies. I'm sure players will figure out better ways to tackle him than just using the super shotgun.

Played some more over the last few days, and my initial concerns have been mostly alleviated. The game doesn't really do itself any favors with its introductory chapter, does it? Left a very bad impression on me even though the following chapters are much better put-together.

Exploration is top. Really intricate labyrinthine levels filled with cool little secrets (although I don't know how they stack up to the ones in the original Doom games, I heard those had some very complex layouts as well). I routinely spend several hours on one level, making sure I've seen and grabbed everything available. It's not quite Metroid Prime, but it's very enjoyable regardless.

Presentation is also top. I'm far from a graphics / tech fetishist, but the game looks and sounds incredible. Love all the little gun animations, too.

Mobility options are great. Love the pace and raw feel of the combat. The only semi-complaint I would have is just how much there is to keep track of in this game! Not just the cooldowns, but also the sheer number of options at the player's disposal. I'm struggling to think of everything in the midst of fighting.

RPG mechanics are a bit hit-and-miss for me in action games, but this game seems to be a good example of them being implemented properly. Lots of cool little unlockables and progression systems to keep things fresh, but the core gameplay loop never feels compromised, which is nice.

The Slayer Gates, as mentioned above, are indeed awesome. I'm not the greatest at FPSs in general and those are definitely a bit tense for me!

Unfortunately, I have noticed a few too many glitches for my taste. Grenades disappearing through the floor, poor collision with the environments, texture problems, and one particularly nasty unavailable encounter that forced me to replay the Cultist Base chapter from the beginning. It's not the end of the world but, coupled with the apparent lack of any extra modes aside from Campaign and basic MP, it does seem to hint at the sort of usual AAA development priorities these days.

It may sound a bit negative towards the end, but I can't wait to get back into it!

>underwater

Just terrible. At least the platforming can be integrated into the combat, this is just a massive waste of time.

>Hugo is one of us

His passion for the series/genre definitely is on full display with this game.

>Marauder

He is the low point of the new additions imo. There’s not much to do against him and sometimes his AI acts weird(he’ll just stand still when I’m far away and then randomly attack several times in a row) which is really bad for an enemy that you have to fight strictly with reactions. I imagined fighting this enemy as some kind of epic duel but it’s just a dumb, shallow back and forth.

>exploration vs original doom

Secrets were sometimes extremely cryptic in the original games, to the point of being near impossible to find on your own. While the level design in this game is really great, it’s still fundamentally quite different from the original games.

>a lot to keep track of

I’ve been forgetting to blood punch in the last couple levels, but sometimes I’ll accidentally do one and go “oh right, why am I not using this?”. Nice to have in mind for bigger enemies.

>glitches

Thankfully I haven’t encountered any yet, in D16 I had many instances of falling through the floor after a glory kill, getting booted out of the game mid-fight, load screens of death, etc. A lot of that came after patches so hopefully that doesn’t end up happening with this one.

Finished the game, some really sick fights near the end. Toyed around the first level with my end-gear and by the Makyr you are powerful. Just went guns blazing, couldn't be stopped.

Not sure how but I managed to chainsaw a spider, perhaps through using more tanks? Not sure.

Overal really happy with the game. Only things I'd like to see changed:

- fix swimming levels
- marauder AI changed, he seems very finnicky
- allow us to listen to the CDs at any time
- more clear visual in the final boss (you'll understand)
- those terrible mastery challenges, there's ways to skip them but overal I just hate them
- bosses in general are a weakpoint of the game, the second-to-last boss is especially annoying
- less cooldowns.

That's it off the top of my head. Great game honestly, can't wait to dive into more. Hope we get more Master Levels soon too. Going to do some final Milestones, the Master Levels and then off to Nightmare Mode.

>Fix swimming levels
*Remove. Someone actually approved the idea, got the water/swimming modeled and animated by the modellers and animators, and had the developers implement it into the game. Complete pace-breaker, I think we could've just done with some basic platforming and puzzles instead.

>Marauder AI
Yeah, I found the Marauder's AI to be really inconsistent. Sometimes, he'd swing at you with his axe constantly, and sometimes, he just wouldn't do it. And I'm not sure if it's just me, but I swear I saw him cancel his melee attacks when I used the lock-on rockets so he could deflect them.

>Mastery Challenges
I found myself not using the Chaingun and Heavy Cannon when I wanted the max turret upgrade for the Chaingun until I was in a situation that would be useful in getting that upgrade. It's supposed to encourage you to get good with the skill, but in reality, it made me use it even less until I actually got the upgrade.

>Everything else
Haven't finished the game yet, am on Taras Nabad.