Doom: Eternal

Decided to have a go of TAG1 on Nightmare - finished it in a sitting. Honestly, it wasn't as hard as I was expecting, although I am playing the now-nerfed version.

I'm tempted to say I like the nerfs related to the tentacles. I can't say I like seeing these enemies pop up anywhere, to be honest - nevermind in the middle of a foggy fight with a Possessed Arachnotron and a Doom Hunter. I think I could have done the fights even if the tentacles were left in, but it's just a fight that felt more inconvenient than challenging the first time I played it.

The tentacles have also been removed from the bridge fight on The Holt (against two Tyrants, one possessed, and a Doom Hunter). I think this one could have stayed as it was, to be honest. Once you've done the fight you know where the tentacles are and can prepare for it next time. The Slayer Gate for this level has also been toned down - an Archvile, Marauder and Doom Hunter have been removed if I remember correctly. I beat it first time on my Nightmare playthrough, but it was still pretty hard. Plenty of close calls. Again, I think it could have stayed as it was. For one of the game's most premier challenges, I don't think I should have been able to beat it first go.

The final boss is still very tough in my opinion, but I only died a handful of times against him. When I played on UV the first time around, I think it took me over an hour to beat. It's nice to compare the two experiences and see a pretty major improvement.

I also started TAG2 as I was in the mood for it, and beat the first mission of that. Only one death as I underestimated the purple goo section, threw a grenade down (forgetting about the Screechers) and royally screwed myself against the Mancubus. I think they're a really smart addition for something that's mechanically simple and just a re-skin. They've patched the Stone Imp weakness to the Shield bump, the miserable bastards. It was a fun little discovery in a DLC that was meant to be a "celebration" rather than an over-the-top challenge - yet, it's not allowed to stay. Some of these changes really do baffle me.

I doubt they're even considering it, but I'd like to see some weapon buffs in future updates. Full Auto could do with something extra (Sticky Bombs are too versatile to ignore), Unmaykr needs to be better than the BFG at literally anything, and maybe the Mobile Turret could do with something extra as I think it's pretty much outclassed by the mastered Micro Missiles. I was convinced that the Remote Detonation mod broke weakpoints, but I found out tonight that it doesn't, so that's a buff I think it should get.

I've since uninstalled the game, so I won't be going back to it. It was fun while it lasted but I found myself getting pretty bored with the game not going to lie.

> tentacles
It works in some instances, I do feel in TAG1 they were used pretty smartly for a 'this DLC is for the hardcore players' style of play they were going for. That said I never liked them myself.

> Final boss TAG1
Really challenging, the last two rooms are almost a bullet hell segment tbh where you can just be deleted in a second if you're not too careful. As far as FPS bosses go that one is pretty interesting at the very least.

> screechers
A perfect example of smart resource use. Grab a dull enemy, slap a colour on it and a fun mechanic and you're set. It really changes some levels in a good way.

> shield bump nerf
You've got to be fucking kidding.

> weapon buffs
Personally, first we have to buff regular shots if possible. Outside of just putting enemies into a stagger state I don't really see a good usage for most of them yet. Think giving RD from the RPG the ability to break weakpoints would be cool, though it might wreck TAG2 since that'll have you swimming in hammertime.

I think Full Auto should not slow your movement speed, that would be a big buff already, perhaps give Sticky Bomb less damage but something passive (make them phospherous grenades for a DoT?).

The Unmakyr is just a problem even at the pure basics of its design. You've already got a Super Weapon. If you make another it has to either be a Superer Weapon, invalidating the BFG, or it'll be worse. Ironically this problem was already solved in the N64 release where the BFG was an AoE weapon while the Unmakyr was a singletarget nuke - which was their balance.

Been playing Blood for a bit lately and really, the weapons in that game are just on another level in terms of usability. I haven't found a weapon or firing mode that isn't useful on a consistent basis with maybe a single exception (tommygun altfire). Highly recommend it if you haven't already.

Basic weapons are:

Pitchfork: melee weapon, great against non hitscanners to save ammo

Flaregun: shoots flares, they stuck to foes dealing DoT. When a foe dies they run around screaming. Its alt fire is a huge flare explosion that sets multiple enemies on fire but drains massive ammo. Great for big rooms with lots of baddies.

Tommygun: basic hitscan weapon, low damage and stagger, great range. Altfire is a spread shot.

Shotgun: basic shotgun weapon, alt fire is a doubletap for massive damage

RPG: shoots phosherous grenades. Huge AoE blast that sets things on fire, low ammo. Alt fire is a giant fireball for crowd control.

Dynamite: basic dynamite to throw around corners, secondary fire is a delay.

Haven't played with the rest yet.

> Uninstall

Just kidding - you can't play the same game forever! I'm still enjoying it, for now. I want to beat the Master Levels before I put it down for a while.

> Tentacles
I think they work best when you can see them (as in you can see the little sinkhole they pop out of). When you can't see them I think it's a bit of a dick move - especially when playing on high frame rates, where they seem to be able to track your movement better.

> Shield Bump nerf
Sadly, yes. Interestingly though, there is a way to "unpatch" it yourself. I watched a video last night on it, there's some sort of utility in Windows that allows you to stop an .exe file from receiving updates after it opens. A recent Battlemode patch changed the Shield Bump (some players think the change in single-player wasn't intentional), and the update is stored server side, so if you block the .exe you won't get the nerf!

> Weapon buffs
It would be nice for a few weapons to have their standard fire modes improved. The only one I absolutely never use after the first mission is the standard fire for the Combat Shotgun. I agree that giving RD a weakpoint break property would make TAG2 even easier, but to be honest, I think it's already pretty damn easy to recharge the Hammer as it is. If we were to make TAG2 slightly easier but make a weapon mod more viable throughout the whole game, I'd be okay with that.

No movement penalty for Full Auto would be good - however, the mod is just plain bad compared to similar ones. This video is a good summary:

The DoT idea you mentioned is cool, although I would prefer for weapons not to be nerfed as they become less fun. I'd prefer to buff the less viable ones. You could even make the Full Auto have an upgrade for incendiary rounds so it makes enemies drop armour shards and add DoT - it could be a resource collecting weapon, allowing you to get armor and shells back in a pinch when maxed out.

> Unmaykr vs BFG
To be honest, I think the devs intended to make the two weapons with the roles you mentioned - BFG for crowds, Unmaykr for deleting a single target. However, the BFG is already effective at deleting single targets, and it deals with crowds, which is where the Unmaykr feels a bit useless. I know I said I'd prefer not to nerf weapons, but I'm not sure how you'd make the BFG less appealing without nerfing it. Unless, of course, you just give the Unmaykr a big damage buff. But then, if you do, you can spray it around crowds to delete them...which is what the BFG already does. Honestly, I don't know. I think the BFG is probably just too strong to make the Unmaykr viable.

> Blood
I do need to get round to playing it. I said I was going to play it when I got that Razer Tartarus keypad, but I don't like it so I'm sending it back (which is proving to be all kinds of difficult). Great to hear that the weapon variety is good and has plenty of use. I think there are a lot of FPS games that lack in that regard - there are too many games where you'd just pick the biggest gun that you have ammo for. I might start it after I beat TAG2.

> master levels
This really could've gotten me to come back, but I'm a bit miffed by how slow this process has been going. Now I know this is a 'different time' etc. But back in the Doom 1 days some developers made levelpacks in weeks time. All the arenas already exist, it is just a remix of enemies. I can't imagine why it's taking them so long tbh to release these.

> tentacles need to be seen
Agreed on that, 100%.

> weapon changes
Note that the recommendations I make, are purely a 'what if it was like this to begin with', currently that ship has sailed so then it's more for 'the sequel'. I do think Doom needs to let go of its standby's. The game doesn't need two shotguns. But it could greatly benefit imo from a dedicated grenade-launcher weapon.

> full auto barely even wins at range compared to SS
What were they thinking...

> unmakyr
Yeah you can see they were sort of going that way, though for the Unmakyr to deal said damage you really have to be in their face to connect all the shots. I used to use it with Overdrive on things like DoomHunters which worked pretty well, until that was nerfed too.

> weapon selection
It's ironic how so many games struggle with one or the other. Games like Devil May Cry have, lately, very one-note enemies that don't require your well crafted tools to be used. Meanwhile Doom Eternal has fantastic foes that don't really promote all the weapons. It always seems to be one or the other. It always seems to be one or the other. If only there were games that did that mixture perfectly :/

> blood
Let me know if you end up playing it!

> Master Levels
Totally agree - COVID granted, how is it taking them so long to do fairly simple remixes of missions? The Super Gore Nest ML was a nice update, that had some unlocks attached to it and I think it had some new/altered areas that weren't in the normal level. Hopefully the upcoming Master Levels are more to that standard, considering the time it's taking to make them. Hugo has confirmed Master Levels for TAG2, which is great, but who knows when we'll see those...

> Weapons
Fair points, it's going to be really interesting to see what Hugo's third Doom game looks like. If it's not like Eternal, I think there's gonna be some pretty major backlash from the community - much bigger than the TAG2 backlash. I agree with the idea that they could explore using a different weapon set. I think Eternal improved on 2016 in this way (IMO the 2016 Combat Shotgun didn't even have a decent mod, it was completely useless by about Mission 4), but they could even go as far as scrapping the CS, or making the Super Shotgun an upgrade to the CS which would then open up a spec on the weapon wheel for something a little more unique.

> Full Auto
Now I've finished TAG2 on Nightmare, I think I like the FA mod even less than I did before. It doesn't really interrupt the Stone Imps rolling attack, so it's not even that good against the enemy that has a specific weakness to it. Weird design decision.

> Weapon Selection
Agreed, although I think DMC5 improved on that in some ways. I watched most of Alan Conqvist's weapon/enemy guides on YT and I was surprised to see how many mechanics were hidden under the hood that I'd have otherwise never picked up on. The number of toys they give you to play with is probably my favourite thing about the game, but then to offset that you have a decent selection of uninteresting enemies to fight (especially on DMD where they have stupid amounts of health). I had a feeling I knew what game your link was going to lead to! Haha.

> Blood
I'm gonna give it a go - might even play a few hours tonight. If I do I'll make a post on the Blood thread!

Couldn't help but post this - what an embarrassment the Unmaykr is...

That is just...embaressing. I can't say anything more..

Truely a pointless addition.

>that weak
Sad. For lvl1 that might be fine, but the MAX should be at least triple that performance (though sixfold seems more appropriate without quite getting to the level of its N64 self).

I thought this was a joke video (or a mod) when I saw the title, so I checked the description for a download link, but instead there is thanks to a player for discovering it...looks like it may actually be a leaked upcoming game mode.



Probably not going to convince anyody who has dropped the game to reinstall, but I think I'll give it a go. After so many replays it'll be nice to play the game with some kind of stipulation that isn't just self-imposed rulesets. I hope it is future content and not just something that was scrapped and now discovered by data miners.

I know this is super cynical and all but...why wasn't this in the full release? I mean this is exactly the type of stuff that gives your game longevity. I do hope it gets added soon as it looks and sounds like a really fun addition!

Hope it isn't a 'unique map by map' thing like with Super Gore Nest that we only get one map for Time Attack.

Fuck me I'm a bitter old man hahahaha.

But seriously looks pretty fun!

> Why wasn't it in the full release?
Good question. I honestly don't understand how iD are trying to keep Doom relevant. They've got a multiplayer mode that the majority of the player base aren't interested in (it's funny that the fans didn't like 2016's multiplayer until they decided they liked Eternal's even less), they aren't selling any cosmetic DLC (despite having seasonal content that you can miss - prime content for selling later down the line) and we've got a whopping 3 master levels (we were meant to get 1 a month since last March). They've somehow managed to coast on people replaying the base game and DLCs. If they don't have more DLCs to sell, what's even the incentive now to keep making content?! I just don't get it.

> Unique to SGN
I really hope not, too. It's a shame we only have Classic Mode for the SGN Master Level. If we were to get ML, Classic Mode and Time Attack for every mission (including DLCs), that'd be so much extra replay value. Add in some kind of Horde/Survival Mode and that'd be the cherry on the icing on the cake.

It still blows me away that Hugo was part of a stream where he was watching a guy play a 'bloody palace' esque mod and didn't think to himself "perhaps this would be a cool addition".

I am very curious what ID will do now, now that they are 100% bought by Microsoft. How much autonomy they'll get etc.

Hugo has been asked in recent interviews about a Horde Mode and he's given the standard "I'm not allowed to announce any future content" line, but he's been quite vocal about saying he thinks it's great. Some people think they're making one (I believe Hugo said after TAG2 came out that they were still going to release "some things people had been asking for"), but I don't think they'll bother dedicating development resources to it when the mod is probably just as good as an official version would be.

They've still got master levels to release (Hugo was recently asked about a NG+ Master campaign - he basically said "let's see how many levels we get to make") and Invasion Mode to add. I'm not sure where they'd find the time to make a Horde Mode, especially if the Time Attack Mode turns out to be legit.

I think it's mostly that their plans got ruined by COVID. Generally speaking it's a smart business practice to keep a singleplayer game alive with peacemeal content in between DLC packs. But now that TAG1 and TAG2 are released...there's no reason to keep the system alive. Not financially at least.

> Multiplayer
It's sad how the king of deathmatch is nothing but an afterthought now.

> Keeping the game alive
Maybe with the MS acquisition they want to treat it more like a service game? It's on game pass, so I could imagine them adopting the mindset of "if we keep updating our games we'll retain our subscribers". That might actually end up benefitting us.

> Multiplayer
I wonder how they'd manage a deathmatch mode with all the gear and abilities the Slayer has. They'd probably have to nerf him to 2 weapons like in 2016, and, increase the Dash cooldown like in battlemode. Would the Meathook stay in? Many questions to be asked, none of which will ever be answered, I expect.

> Ultra-Nightmare
I started a UN run last night, just for the memes. I beat Cultist Base and now I'm in too deep. I didn't think I'd get this far and now I'm nervous to carry on. Please send help.

> Multiplayer
If you want a fun mode I'd honestly say "yes" to everything. Games are so focused on delivering a fun experience they forget the true meaning of joy. It's funny you mention the grapple since we were talking Bond the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNk7ldmCKO0
You could just connect to any surface. It was hilarious.

> UN
Good luck man!

As if by magic (did they read our earlier conversation?), you can now pay for (certain) cosmetics! https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/doom-eternal-has-added-paid-skins-despite-previous-assurances-it-wouldnt/

It's kinda shitty, but less cynical than you see in other games that try post-release monetisation. On the one hand, yes, there have been 2 events that allowed players to get this content for free, but on the other hand...seasonal content is shite. People who buy the game now are being punished for not doing so earlier. It's not exactly cheap, either. £7.39 for the Season One content, for 12 items? Half of which are just... crap? That's too much, IMO.

I can't say I agree with this, but I'm grateful that it's not worse (and it could be a lot worse). If this is the price to pay for Master Levels, Time Attack, Invasion Mode etc., I guess it's not too bad.


> Multiplayer
Agent Under Fire looks a lot of fun, can't wait to get some friends together and play it. The Gamecube is probably the best system you could buy for local 4-player multiplayer. Plenty of excellent games across a good range of genres, too. Speaking of multiplayer (and Doom), I tried some of the MP in 2016 a couple of days ago. It's surprisingly fun - I'm not sure why it didn't take off. Straight off the bat it feels much more approachable than Battlemode, and it had a lot of game modes too, some of which are quite unique. I've not seen anything like Freeze Tag in other shooters. I pretty much played with the same lobby all night as hardly anybody plays it anymore, but maybe the player count will be higher on weekends.

> UN
Thanks man. I'll probably carry on with my run this weekend. I think I'm going to do a Master Level to start off each session to warm me up. Jumping straight in to a permadeath mode when I turn the game on is asking for trouble.

Invasion Mode sounds like it's been cancelled, and it's being replaced by a single player Horde Mode in the future:

https://slayersclub.bethesda.net/en/article/3uu274Pti8Ycp1QZmHj4Dz/doom-eternal-development-update-june-2021

Definitely a good decision to focus on single player content IMO, but there's already excellent fan-made Horde modes. iD are going to have to make something really good to warrant their decision.

I've heard the new Master Level is finally out (I'm pretty sure they said "very soon" about 3 months ago). I've not seen any gameplay of it, going to play it blind. Not really in the mood for Doom right now but I'll try it at some point. I've seen a few high level players say that they aren't keen on it, which isn't a good sign.

Good to hear them focussing more on SP content. That said...isn't there like a giant fan-mod out there that's already a horde mode? I mean, it's cool there will be an official one, but feels a bit like a wasted breath.

Pretty sizable update. Two master levels, horde mode, some skins. Not enough to edge me back, but this is some great support not gonna lie.

Had a quick go at the Horde Mode the night it came out, it's decent. As you say, great support (especially for free).

I watched a little bit of Hugo's stream where he was demo-ing it and he made a point of saying Horde Mode isn't a master level and the hardest challenges aren't in there, and I have to say...it's still pretty challenging. I was a bit concerned about the difficulty when I saw how many extra lives you can earn, I thought it'd be a piece of cake. I died in the last round of the 2nd mission (about 2/3 of the way through) and I went in to that round with about 6 lives. There are some pretty tough combinations to deal with, especially when the Spirit enemies come in to play - do you try and avoid the spirited enemy 'til last, or do you kill them and risk the spirit occupying something more dangerous? It did make me think about strategy, which is good.

I had a quick go of the World Spear master level too, which is also pretty nuts in terms of difficulty. It was late so I didn't do what I normally do and stubbornly keep trying til I can beat it, and I decided to leave it and have a proper attempt on another night. Only a few fights in and it feels more difficult than the other master levels I've played so far. The devs said for this one that your success depends on how efficiently you can use the Hammer, so I should probably make a note to use it more than I normally remember to.

The Full Auto mod for the shotty finally got the buff everyone was asking for. The high level players may be pleased with it (I haven't really looked into what anybody notable thinks) but I didn't really think it was that good, to be honest. Instead of buffing damage or fire rate, they've decreased the transformation times (when it winds up/down), reduced the movement penalty (when maxed out with upgrades there is no penalty at all) and made it so you can switch the weapon out mid-transformation so it's better suited for weapon combos. Now that I write that all out, it sounds better than in my head, but I still don't think it presents much of a case against the Super Shotgun (especially with the combo meta). Still, the buff is welcome, as it was probably the least relevant mod in the game before now. Maybe with time I'll learn to appreciate it more.

I don't know if this is update is gonna put this game at the forefront of my attention again, but credit to iD, they've put out a great update here. I think we'd be extremely pleased to get this sort of support for other the action titles we love.

Have to say that despite being such a bitter sod towards this game, watching Zero Master play the master-levels without HUD is super entertaining to watch. I think the Classic Mode is also pretty neat for the ML, as it kinda requires you to play with some other combat options since you might not have all your tools yet.

> boost of the full auto mod
I'm still a tad miffed that regular fire modes really just seem like they might as well not exist anymore. Even in Classic runs you barely see a regular shot fired, except with the SS/Balistae ofc. Sometimes a spare rocket for splash, but that's it. Plasma only sees use for the Spirits (which I've admittably warmed up to mechanically, just not to their immunity) etc. I think it'd be a good point of improvement if they ever make a sequel because at this point just remove the shotgun with a grenadelauncher haha.

> horde mode/ML
I like these mapes/modes do bring it all together. My biggest complaint after the DLC, regradless of my takes on the combat mechanics/choices, was how the new introductions like the Hammer and new enemy types, weren't included in the main campaign somehow through a new mode of difficulty. This way we can see them really experimment with waves and creative ideas instead of "how many Tyrants can be put in a single room".

I wish more games had this type of single-player attention from the developers, really. Imagine games like W101, NG3 etc. getting this type of love. Instead those games tend to release and that's it (which also has its upsides mind you, you get a finished product right out of the gate).

NOTE: Mayo apparently played Bayonetta and...the results were hilarious. Saw a lot of Bayo-players charge at him foaming in the mouth. Guy continues to make me embarressed to be a GoW fan.

NOTE2: I saw some user created Master Levels for 2016 and it's surprisingly to me still how well that game holds up visually.

> Classic Mode structure
Horde Mode also operates in a kinda similar way. You start out with a maxed out Combat Shotgun and the Chainsaw, and you're given another random maxed out weapon after every arena round, so you can't necessarily rely on your favourite combos to carry you through the whole thing. I didn't have the Super Shotgun, Rocket Launcher or Ballista 'til the second mission, but it is possible that you could get them as your first 3 unlocks. I feel like this kinda fucks the scoring system, but as a way of testing the player it's quite good.

> Shotty regular fire
Agreed, it has very limited use (quite a few of the standard fire modes do, actually). I occasionally use it to stagger a fodder enemy for a glory kill (quicker than the full auto transformation and sticky bombs might OHKO and skip the stagger). It'd be nice for it to have more incentives.

> Updates/Support
I think every action game should have some sort of bonus mode, whether it's master levels, horde, bloody palace, challenge mode etc. It's great to have a more arcade-y experience where you can jump in and engage with the gameplay mechanics with minimal interruptions from things like cutscenes. It also means you can make the game super challenging, but not make your story mode so difficult that casuals can't beat it. Even though the Vergil DLC for DMC5 is cheap, this kind of support makes Capcom look really shitty for not including any Vergil-exclusive levels (I believe he has an exclusive boss fight, which is cool, but not much).

> Mayo
He's got good and bad content, IMO. I do subscribe to him as I like the majority of his stuff (I've not played the old GoWs but I liked his critique of the new one), but he's definitely not perfect. His Bayo video was interesting, to say the least. It did make me laugh that his ultimate take was basically "normal is too easy, hard is too hard, game just isn't for me". Okay then, haha.

> 2016
For sure, it's an excellent looking game. I finally got my RTX 3080 a couple of months ago and christened it with Eternal, max settings, Ray-tracing etc. It makes me a bit sad that RT wasn't a thing when 2016 came out because it'd look so, so good on that game. Honestly though, it doesn't need it, looks great as is.

I played the Horde Mode for a bit, had quite a bit of fun with it. Despite my issues with this game I have so much fun playing it. At the end of the day, it’s all I really care about anymore.

>Mayo
His Bayo video was amazingly bad. Pretty sure he didn’t mention WWs once. As for GoW, whenever he brings it up, he always goes on about the combo meter, which like…who even pays attention to that?

>every action game should have some sort of bonus mode
Agreed. And if they don’t, they need an option to skip the shitty sections of the levels.

Yeah I think the best way to give this game some time to shine is, ironically, by taking some tools away. The downside with games like these, is that eventually you 'optimize' the hell out of it. Unless you're something as fucking crazy as NGII (and even then) you need to really pull the rug out from under experienced players to give them a challenge like 2 years in. That said, I do applaud them. There's some serious passion on display here and they're sticking to their guns, which I can't help but admire.

> regular fire modes
One of my (biggest) letdowns, I think in the future they really should give those a bigger emphasis. You never use regular fire since they are just too terrible compared to regular shots. The gameplay is still excellent mind you, but it's a bit annoying/sad that you have so many weapon options/ attack options that are just outshined by everything there is.

> Mayo
I have to admit, I'm a bit jaded. I'm at the point where I have such an established opinion on just about everything, it's becoming hard to watch Youtubers. I'm always watching them and just waiting for them to say something that makes me turn it off like "Ninja Gaiden needs lockon", "God of War needs a stylemeter" or just some random ass other bullshit haha. Ironically I've found I'm enjoying the comedyguyz more, like Scott the Woz. His analysis are absolutely garbage of course, and there's going to come a day when he's going to try those for real and fall on his ass like Gamingshitshow did (as noted: jaded :p), but until then he's really making me laugh. And of course AVGN, but he's nostalgia for me at this point.

Not sure how old you guys all are, but I was like 17 when AVGN hit the web on Gametrailers and we couldn't stop watching it. Now it is almost just pure nostalgia, when I watch him I feel young again.

> RTX 3080
Damn, great catch! I saw some RT mods for emulators as well, so maybe there's a mod for 2016?

> bonus modes
Again. Ninja Gaiden Black. I'm becoming a broken record but that amount of content that game had just boggles my mind the more I think about it. Eternal Legend was such a novel addition, wish more games dared to do things like that for free.

NOTE: I'm super happy btw to see how cool Hugo Martin is regarding modding.

> GoW Combo meter
If there was a single thing I'd remove from that game, its that. The combo meter rewards absolutely nothing, and promotes the absolute worst playstyle.

>regular fire modes
Yeah, I’ve thought this since 2016 dropped, where siege mode/remote detonate just completely overpowered the entire arsenal tenfold. Even in Eternal where they attempted to balance things out, the chaingun ends up being the only standard fire I use, and the plasma rifle just so I can build up for heat blast. I think it’s partially just too many tools and the team couldn’t give a purpose to everything.

>hard to watch youtubers
I’ve completely stopped. The ones who claim to know a lot don’t know what they’re talking about in most cases(we all know the ones). I would still watch Matthew but he makes like two videos a year, and even then he gets a bit annoying for me with his Kamiya circlejerking while ignoring or saying ignorant things about other great action games.

>AVGN
Yeah I was like 14 when he first popped up. He’s insufferable now though.

>NGB
You know what’s funny, I royally suck at NG in all forms, but it’s one series I’m always booting up and watching videos of. There’s just so much goodness there that I feel we won’t ever get again.

>combo meter promotes the worst play style
In some of Mayo’s videos where he talks about the style meter, he juggles trash enemies and takes an eternity to kill them. Why does anyone want to play games this way?

> Matthew
I feel kind of the same, generally his focus on story-analysis goes a bit too far and his gameplay analysis falls a bit flat. Still, in terms of videos, he's very well versed and there's some good editing too. Of course they can't all be Stinger-Magazine :p

> avgn
He's hit and miss for me. Sometimes there's an episode that really nails the old-skool feeling and jokes, but it is rare.

> who wants to play in such a boring way
Youtube was a mistake. That said, it's fun to toy with your food, but at this point I half expect them to make combo videos of RE4 with Sum41 music over it while Leon is frantically weapon switching and swapping to his knife haha. I mean, it's great, have fun, but it you're basically playing bad on purpose at that point imo. EDIT: i mean, I get it in games like DMC5 or Bayo, those games are made with it in mind. But this is just getting ridiculous at some point haha

>gameplay analysis falls flat
Agreed. I was expecting to hear something in his TLOU2 review but he basically just said “set pieces good” and moved on to story. He also said TEW is one of Mikami’s weak games so he’s dead to me(kidding, sort of).

>cuhrayzee RE4
Mayo(and others) made a big deal about Village having weapon swap cancelling. How out of touch do you have to be with the game you’re playing to care about this? I was browsing the Blasphemous board on GFAQS and someone was complaining about the lack of jump cancelling and other shit from DMC. This is the other thing killing games: players just wanting every game to be the same. You like a mechanic in one game, and just want it everywhere, even when it doesn’t belong.

> YouTubers
I don't really go out of my way to watch anybody in particular, to be honest. I watch most of Maximilian's videos just because I'm a fighting game fan and he seems a fairly cool guy. He tries to keep the classics from fading into obscurity, so that's a pretty big plus for me.

If we talk about DoomTubers in particular... well, there aren't many good ones IMO. Hmmmp is basically a shitposter, Midnight uploads tonnes of clickbait crap, Allstin doesn't really contribute anything interesting ... the one I'd probably recommend the most is Doom Penguin who looks at strategies and mechanics. He doesn't have too many videos but they're worth a watch for people looking to learn the game. Decino is obviously the premier DoomTuber but he mainly covers the older games, and I was mainly trying to think of new-school guys in this case.

> Analysis
I've thought about doing analysis videos/articles before, but after watching countless YouTube videos and being involved in many discussions on here, it's become obvious to me that it's so easy to fall flat on your face when trying to make a sophisticated point. You really need to have a lot of experience with something to give a good analysis of it, and you can tell when people don't. It's extremely difficult to keep one's biases out of their analysis, too - see Matthewmatosis with Kamiya's work (and personally I do like them both).

> Mayo doesn't mention Wicked Weaves
Wow, I didn't even realise that. I think it's pretty clear that he's only really interested in GoW and anything else has some sort of flaw he just can't bring himself to look past. To be fair to him. I was pleased to see that he wasn't scared to criticise Village when it was getting lavished in praise by most. I do think he is "one of us" and at the end of the day, we're all going to have at least a few opinions that we won't agree on.

That's absolutely fair. I do think that a lot of reviews tend to suffer, outside of their 'specialized games', for being such quick takes fueled by "gotta get dem patreon bucks". If you paid me 10.000$ to play The Last of Us 2, even for that cash I'd probably only sit through it once and probably give a really basic take. It's usually when players are passionate that the best reviews are made, since they'd have made them anyway i.e. Mayo talking about Eternal, Brit raging about DMC5 and Matthew talking about W101/DMC1.

> Decino
Still want to reach out to him one time, we're both Dutch and live not too far from each other if memory serves. Would be cool to do a Stinger&Decino collab one day, though I fear I'm probably to smallfish haha.

NOTE: I really am loving watching Eternal more than playing it somehow. It's almost hypnotizing. I'm curious when Hedfone plays it, see what his opinion on it is.

>analysis
There’s also just so many of them now. An in-depth analysis of a video game was novel 6 or 7 years ago, now there’s countless 40+ minute videos talking about one game. When I saw that 7 hour Death Stranding review pop up in my recommended I literally rolled my eyes. Who the hell wants a 7 hour recap of the story(because we all know it won’t contain a good gameplay dissection)?

>wasn’t scared to criticize Village
True, but his video also seemed forced and was wanting to hate the game. I find it weird that someone with such incredibly specific tastes keeps “reviewing” different games and everyone’s surprised when he hates pretty much everything.

>quick takes fueled by patreon bucks
Reminds me someone with his NG “retrospective”.

>Brit raving about DMC5
He literally called the game perfect. What a joke.

>delcino collab
That would be awesome to see. Love his content.

> analysis
The plethora of them is an issue to yeah. This happened to nearly all forms though, I remember when Bick Benedicts was the sole guide-man, and now you've got fully edited guides of an Evil Within No Upgrades Run two days before the game comes out. It's all about being first, no matter the quality of the gameplay (also with reviews), which kinda blows. I remember a video-based walkthrough of Resident Evil Remake eons ago that was hosted on a site, great stuff, cool tactics too, think it died with the rise of YT.

Not fishing for compliments (actually, the opposite), what's your take on Stinger in that regard? I mean, it obviously caters to you since you're hear and its target audience is action-people. But that aside, where does it fall for you in that sense if you get what I mean? Idem to @Gregorinho .

> review tastes
It's a bit more detailed than that imo. You've got tastes on the one hand, but it becomes really hard to compare a game you've put 1000+ hours into, to a game you gave a spin for 10 hours on the weekend, at least on a mechanical-discussion/review level. This is usually what happens with these game-reviews. Guy's a maniac that plays one game nearly constantly, and dips his toes in the other.

There was a pretty weird review on Xenoblade 2 on Kotaku back then, where they had the resident "JRPG hater" review the game due to staff-shortages at the time. Of course the entire review was just "this genre is dull", which is...weird. On the one hand: it's cool to have an outside opinion. Having Mayo review Bayonetta is going to have significantly different takes than if Setnaro would do it for example, but both might have interesting insights (note the word: might, haha).

>doom eternal
I gotta get around to trying the new stuff, like Infinity said the game has its problems but at the end of the day it's still pretty fun to play.

>analysis
Yup, it's tough because you have to both know enough to not be talking out of your ass and convey your points effectively. Most people just talk out of their ass, because the people who can't convey their points aren't making videos or writing essays.

>Decino and Stinger
This would be amazing! But c'mon Roy, you're proposing this and you haven't even done Plutonia Experiment pistol start no mid-level saves? :)

> decino
Well, honestly you say it half joking, but that's entirely my point. The site-size on the side, I'm just not that big of a Doom guy. I love the games to death. I've done Nightmare runs, but nothing spectacular. As a Doom guy, I'm just an average player. Also not sure what we'd do together, though I'd probably love to interview him.

Cleared Horde Mode, second attempt in total. Very intense from the halfway point onwards. Feel free to beat my (very very unoptimised) score ;]

A bit disappointed by how close I was to Gold - so close, yet so far...

There's are rank beyond Gold if I remember correctly, right?

There is, yes - I assume it's called Slayer Rank, like in 2016's Arcade Mode. I think players will definitely need a good scoring path for the top rank, I'm not sure if it's achievable just by being "good".

My score includes the "No BFG" bonus too, which I think was 50k. You also get 1000 points per extra life unused, but I only got a little 5k bonus there (the last waves are tough). I didn't really think too much about score strategies, I just wanted to see if I could beat it!

I've personally never had that big a connection with score-runs, it's one of the few things I never enjoyed since both styles of it irk me. If it's 'set', meaning you aren't reliant on RNG, it tends to revolve around exploiting a certain thing (i.e. a part with infinitely respawning enemies) and singular playstyle (Vanquish suffers a lot of this). If it's related to RNG, like DOOM ETERNAL, then it's just a row of restarts that await you since you might get horrid upgrades.

Big respect for those that enjoy and are great at it though, like Karmarunners. I tried it but fuck me I just can't stomach it.

Yeah, I agree, not a big fan of score-hunting. The RNG in Horde is good from a gameplay perspective as it encourages you to get a bit more creative when dealing with certain encounters, but it's pretty bad in a score based mode as there will surely be an optimal unlock path. I'm not looking to beat my score anytime soon, so on to the new Master Levels I suppose...

>matthewmatosis
I do have issues with him as well,but compared to the likes of Joseph Anderson I take him any day. A pretty solid game critic Matthew is nonetheless. His gow 2018 reveiw is Oscar worthy(even if I do disagree with some stuff).

>Mayo
I've recentely saw his vid on style (I know, the latest upload there). He stumbles around main point so much that it's hard to follow and factual errors about games he talks doesn't make it any easier. Also for someone who uses every chance he gets to drool over GOW, he doesn't have good of grasp over its design. He just described ineffective way to play it, because combo indicator fooled him.

On a different note, it's funny to hear somone using words outside of established terminology to describe mechanics of NG. Orbs instead of essence, parries instead of counters, orb charges instead of UTs/ETs. And of course, he didn't even explain how the ranking in NG works lol.

>AVGN
His old vids are timeless. New ones? Not so much. I enjoy much more James' film content nowdays, as you can clearly see passion in it.

>Joseph Anderson and the likes
Do they hold some kind of competition to see who can say the least in the longest duration of time? More flowery sentences, more comparisons, more puns to artificially extend run time. Just to disguise of how little of substance there is in it.

Not a jab at Matthew, I find his videos so much better than those pretentious attempts at video games analysis.

>others
So far, the only youtuber that I enjoy on consistent basis is The Electric Underground. Obviously, he also not free of his biases.

>Style video
Mayo needs to stop talking about anything that isn't Doom. He has dogmatic views that he's constantly contradicting and it's exhausting. Hates parry and dodge heavy games, but drools over Sifu. Praises the ranking system in old GoW but not Bayo, which has elements of efficiency(something he claims to care about, because he hates games that let you experiment). Makes cope videos about Doom Eternal's bad weapon mods, yet in every other video(Vanquish) he pulls the "why would I use anything but the best thing?!" talking point, which you can use for the dogshit full auto shotgun and micro missiles. Hates any game that isn't focus tested through hell and back and wrung dry of anything that might be too easily abused or poorly balanced, yet loves SH2 with its non-existent attention to anything related to its combat or resources(not knocking the game, just pointing out Mayo's brainworms).

>Joseph Anderson
I'm not sure when the ongoing competition for longest video game analysis video started, but it needs to stop. No, I'm not watching a fucking 7 hour video about Death Stranding, when I know 6 of those hours will just be recapping story beats. I can just play the game if I want that.

>Matthew
I disagree with him sometimes but overall he's definitely one of, if not the best.

>Electric Underground
I enjoy his stuff. Seems like a cool guy.

Goddamn, this game has a lot of cool tech actually. May replay it soon.

>enemy’s feel too similar
I used to think this, but I honestly grew to learn more of the enemy’s distinct abilities and such. A good example is the prowler, at first I thought they were just meh canon fodder who can get annoying at times, but playing the game more I learned how their teleportation and AI behaves, which changed how I approached them and consider them. They are an enemy that require a lot of your attention in general and encourage more use of meat hook, without ever forcing it. This isn’t taking account the more advanced tech like ballistas always staggering them btw. However, certain enemy’s like imps really did get nerfed yeah. They now rarely ever use wall climbing and while the other variant(stone imp) is cool and all, I really feel like the game could benefit from imps in general having stuff like the roll ability and such while having wall climbing to make them that much more engaging, although it could require them to make it not a foddder demon if so due to how complex that would be. I do like the flying fodder demon, mainly due to their fast 3 blast attack which requires you to dodge. If approaching then, otherwise they are kind of boring. I do think some enemy’s like the pain elemental are just boring tbh. They feel like they are just a damage sponge with really only 1 cool aspect(their summoning of lost souls and being able to shoot them is nice). Mancubus are good and the variant does feel rather unique tbh. The dread knight while on paper, seems like just a worse version of a baton of hell they do use stuff like their projectiles far more often and are able to create some splat in the ground. The invisible enemy’s are kind of boring admittedly. The invincibility doesn’t add much due to the fact you can see them pretty well even like that do they feel a bit tacked on. As for delimbs, I agree that in a sequel they could take notes from ninja gaiden 2 and change the behaviors of enemy’s a bit, but as is now it’s pretty good due to the faltering it does(allowing for some creative weapon combos). That’s mainly my take in general about that, thought I would put my 2 cents into the mix.