God of War 1 General Discussion

Insane amount of data, god bless you for your hard work. Any specific run you're interested in using it for? We could try and cull the data somehow, in a beastiary esque site or whatever or guide.

Updated the values for Medusa's Gaze (Stare) and some values for family heals. For convenience, use CTRL+F and look for "30BPM" (without quotes) to quickly jump at the changes I made.

>specific run I want to use it for
Hadn't thought about it. Knowing enemy HP values and how much damage they take from grabs should be good for a variety of runs.

>cull the data
Sure. I was planning to edit these posts for corrections, and post the final version on GameFAQs (in a post, not a guide). Separating spell data, RotG data, and enemy data would make it more presentable, yes.

Say, Roy (or anyone else reading this, besides GMG and Zim), do you have the time to help me out with enemy attack names, descriptions, and cues? Not for all of them, it's just that I suck at that, generally speaking. I would even be willing to upload a vid where I'd be detailing every single enemy attack in the game, so you know which attack is which, along with coming up with a descriptive attack name and cue.

It is okay if you want to decline. I understand that not everyone has a lot of time to spare for this kind of thing.

If you want we could look into making something like this:

https://ultimateframedata.com/kazuya

But then with clips (gifs) of said attack that you record, with the info below it. Would be a monsterous undertaking though and not sure where to host it. I could host it on Stinger (make a unique page in wordpress) for you but that's still a shit ton of work nonetheless (I could give you an editors-account, so you could edit that 'page'). You could also put it in a GoogleDocs file and publish it from there, then you have full automomy.

Again, shitload of work haha.

I'd love to help with names but I'm sure GMG would beat me senseless if I took that joy from him.

>something like this
More or less. I definitely don't want to get into frame data (GMG mentioned something to that effect as well), but mostly because I don't know how to collect it. Frame advancing (TAS?) could be one way, but ripping off models for better presentation is also out of my hands.

It would just serve to illustrate which attack is which (especially if you go by the attack names I came up with), and the damage values would go right below the .gif

>host it somewhere
I'm a total beginner when it comes to that. Not sure where should I even get started. The more annoying way to do it is to post an imgur gallery with all the .gifs I have made, or maybe post multiple clips (would take more work, but at least people wouldn't have to scroll and look for the specific attack they want to see). Not sure if Google Docs would let me do it the simpler way (display the text while being able to embed the imgur links). If that's possible, then yeah, I'd take that route.

>GMG would beat you senseless
He probably wouldn't mind. Think of it as a brainstorm (well, that's precisely what it is). To note it, the enemy entries (damage values, Effects, if something can be blocked or not, etc.) up until Undead Archer were made by him (but when it comes to Grab Damage/Grab Kill/OH/Air OS data, that was ALL him *I basically confirmed the values, but the grab data already existed*). Also, he helped me to figure out better names for Satyr's attacks, but besides that, we can think for better names for other stuff. Especially for Pandora's Guardian.

B-b-but SQUARE SQUARE TRIANGLE!!!

Wright: >33MP for lvl1 PR
Just shy of one-third of the MIN bar.

>lvl3 is half
NER bros...I don't feel so good.

>GF with no MP reduction at least if not greater potency
Sad!

>GR at 200MP
Even 100 would have been distasteful for a full charge. For 200MP, it should destroy the statues itself. Ridiculous (and still not castable from the sky). 50MP nuking was much better (even had i-frames in GoWII). Not even like we can Stare while charging this. Atrocious.

>minimal lvl2 Zf bolt MP cost
Kek.

>lvl3 Zf 'Stun'
Needed a bit of a boost.

>'Charge'
Needed some big buffs, but we've been over all that.

>75MP for all versions
Goated. Blessed even (for lvl2 and beyond especially).

>wildly vary
Love to hear it.

>more efficient with upgrade
I should hope so.

>minimal tap difference between lvl1 and lvl3 Stare
That leaves the matter of petrification point (PP) build-up.

>Minofraud
Supposedly 7K PP (for RES).

>used 17MP at lvl1
>9MP at lvl3
Almost double the efficiency.

>MG for when really low
Just have to armor early before waiting for SS to come out (quite delayed as I recall). Now for the verbatim from the old guide:

Beam (lvl1) - 8 SEC - 48,000 Freeze potential - Cost 50MP
Beam (lvl2) - 10 SEC - 69,000 Freeze potential
Flash (lvl2) - 8,000 Freeze potential - 20MP
Beam (lvl3) - 12 SEC - 90,000 Freeze potential
Flash (lvl3) - 8,000 Freeze potential - 20MP
Nuke MP cost - 100MP

NOTE: That's how they present the information. Poorly.

>PR values
This should be nice to have cleared up (since the guide isn't super reliable here, either).

>lvl1 2.5 per hit
Simple enough.

>lvl2 base
>roughly 3.3 per
Neat.

>varies per hit
>from lvl2 base to as high as ~5.1 per hit
Then there is just the question of how many hits are possible.

>lvl3 base
>just shy of 4.17
Was sort of hoping for 5, but still quite good.

>lvl3 wrath
>base to as much as ~6.4
Lovely. For laughs, let us see what the guide says, shall we?:

Base (lvl1) - 32DMG *implying 12.8 hits...wut* - 32MP
Base (lvl2) - 83DMG *24.9...I see* - 42MP
Button Mash Damage - 105 *not specified if this is additional or a new total, but I presume the former*
Base (lvl3) - 154DMG *~37 per* - 50MP
Button Mash Damage - 215

NOTE: This we've had to contend with for years. That is what is paid for (not me, but you get the idea).

>lvl3 max hits base shy of 154.2
Right.

>with was short of 221.6
A nice amp for something with no risk or additional cost (save mashing a button *bad for PS5 kids since circle is apparently atrocious for it*). Not as dramatic as double, but still a real increase per use.

>all levels at 8
So very sad that it never slightly gets buffed in any way (just cost efficiency, which is...something *something better would be not being deflected by everyone harmlessly, hurting things it is deflected into, guard breaking punks, etc. before eventually just ignoring guard*).

>Stun is 20/12.5
>later for knockback
Amusing.

>Charge at 65
With no bonus hit, eh?

>receives the secondary
But not the hit property?

>'Charge' can bug as just 20 or even 12.5
Oof.

>AoH DMG per hits
I suppose lvl3 was 36 hits, then. I forget what the old report said, but I think it was a potential of 720 per target (if they weren't wasted on bouncing).

>hit counters lies
I'm familiar. Be it hits that do nothing or damage without hits registering.

>best to work their armor to contend with the issue
True. Turn it against them.

>t3 secondary is 3 at base
Oh?

>AO is 10 hits
>all hits are 1.5
>even the ender
That right?

>early quad stab
'Fury', yes. Such a horrid thing. Too bad it doesn't have other things going for it (orb leeching, good RP building, etc.).

>AF DMG order oddity
Curious. Base (if at lvl1) would be 5/2 (or 2/5). I think AF still works with RotG. Should take the MAX at 100% P to 50/20 (20/50) for 70.

NOTE: 4 hours of my nephew meandering through Elden Ring if you were wondering about the delay. Really damn hard to focus and enjoy all this that way.

>times were launcher did 0DMG
>when working tip range
Good ol' GoW1 consistency.

>air version slightly stronger with the primary
>gains secondary that can possibly multi-hit (twice being confirmed)
Neat.

>Might's flurry
A bother to cover. I assume you just sub out the last value when canceling into t3 from it (or whatever else). I forget what the MAX hits for a big target was with Might. 4-5, I think. Even if just the former...t0 with the single is just 30. If you have some situation for the ass blast to double then 60. Might at 20 falls short, but the double already clears the expected result of Plume (just not Bravery). A triple matches t1, but is only practical on big boys that I can recall. Quad would be exceptional for sure (80). If a Penta is a thing, 100 ain't bad.

>slash/grab just as a kick's recovery begins to cue up a fast version
>need to leave (L) alone
Oh?

>double hit case maybe for deep and/or size
Always fun. Just wish we knew what the deal actually was. Too much to ask for them to tell us these little details. Sort of sad LotF has the ability to multi-hit, but air t1 cannot (in addition to lacking a charge *while being super unsafe out of the gate to the point even spell canceling can't help*). Base isn't even 15. No idea why jump special is so weak when it is a dedicated version of mediums. Shouldn't be it be doubled (were it not for cancels, I'd say tripled *at least*)? Heavy special can't charge, lacks an on-hit grab, is another super unsafe case and each hit is medium tier (not heavy ender tier like it ought to be). Light special getting stronger with the last few hits is unexpected. Similar set-up for s4 (and R1,s). Power-weighted for finishing up (though not to an extreme degree like a triple damage blow). With the unsafe nature of the medium special (held for launcher) even considering pursue i-frames...it just feels like it should be doubled (if not tripled). Hell, to match the big dick energy of the motion, why not QUAD (40 *sHP would be in shambles*)? It can't get multi-hits, so why not? 120DMG for MAX at P% wan-hundo? Sounds delightful even before Punt/Homerun are considered. Reward my unsafe moves, dammit. Tempt me to try them (and find times to land them).

>air t1 actually got to be 25 with BotG
Here I was sure I'd landed it for 0.

>light spins pulling the stunt favoring the later hits
Bah.

>no multi-hit special cases like Arty had
Hmmm, yes.

>either single or quad with HG
Just as I recall it.

>didn't even have Arty style balancing for air moves
Big time afterthought (in tandem with babby jumps).

NOTE: Still wish the thing (even with babby jumps) was available to replace Arty in NG+. Would be interesting to work.

>TotF is complex
Shocking.

I forget how it works. I imagine these uniques would fall a degree further for sHP. s1 being 14, for example. Surely it isn't actually just 7 (and x2 of its own unique values). THAT is possible, but would be silly. Where would it matter to be more than just 1sHP (considering how common that is)? Well, Desert Sirens are 10K sHP, so you can forget about that without hax (or unexisting). Breeders are 25sHP, so even if it is 14 you would need two. If it is just 7, then even three falls short (with 5s, you are cutting it close going for a fourth *if there is time enough at all*).

Less extreme would be the Centaur at 10sHP. Either one-shot or two-shot as such (depends on what the truth is *not clear just yet as it really isn't common that people use RotG let alone to break statues like I did the archers at the exit barrier in Temple of Zeus*). Minotaur Warrior, Tormentor and Hades variant are all listed at 20sHP while the lesser Hammer Grunt claims 26sHP. The regular grunt suggests 7 (so even if s1 is super impotent against statues, it would still one shot this foe, so that is nice). Both goats are at 25sHP. Same for CDK. Enforcer drops to 20 and Brute to 15 (odd balancing choice). Really will be something to see a RotG focused run (especially with some shattering action put to work *divine the truth*).

>RotG s2's second hit can double
Thus 6/6/6. Devilish, indeed. Quite the shame about the lack of so much as assblasting on our high voltage blasts.

>air R1
I wonder if the game treats it as a true unique. How well it does on sHP should reveal the truth.

>included non-uniques as with face buttons
I'm pretty confident these are just boosted by P%.

>N/A
So it (TotF) is with leveling (lvl4+), then. Another distinction between the Tyco and DB path for the proposed run(s). Guide fails to note this (same, I think, for the game itself *have to go into the movelist*).

>possible bonus hit on the penultimate
Right.

>RP building uniform in ALL runs
The great equalizer.

>you've been waiting for
How did you know? I fell called out.

>BoC strikes
Let's make tiers (best to worst):

S tier (1): Rope slash

NOTE: Who knew the rope slash was so potent (though you need to weigh it against the output)? I sure hope it builds it for each foe hit and a single use on multiple foes isn't kek'd (happens in games here and there like Souls with multi-kills for RotEE).

A tier (Almost 0.15): s1, s2, s3, t1, t3, T, air s1, air s2, air s3, R1, Thrust, S's flails, wall light, wall heavy and rope kick

NOTE: Plume (t0) is not listed, but I suspect it belongs in this class (based on t1 and even t3 somehow making it). I've heard it said there is a modifier being applied to rope/wall attacks (not truly high baseline). IF that were so, they would fall short of the sHP DMG potential they suggest (rare as it would be to even see that tested). Would be cool for it to just be that strong and there were times you could have some high sHP case near one of them to barely make the dps needed to crush 'em.

B tier (South of 0.1): air R1, AA and air LotF (direct)

NOTE: Unexpected boon for these three. The multi-hit with the former might be pretty alright for efficient building of meter. The shockwave of LotF giving absolutely nothing is a bit unfortunate.

C tier (Not quite 0.075): s4, s5, s6, t2 and air t1

NOTE: Air t1 got screwed if even ground t1 got the next tier higher. Low DMG, low RP building, etc. Poor aerial Bravery (Dissension/Descension *whatever you want to call it*).

D tier (Shy of 0.05): Fury, AF and S (per hit)

NOTE: How they going to do the literal opposite of what I wanted for the garbage multi-stab? Sure AF doesn't need such a boon, but why do the other dirty like this? Doesn't hit hard or build hard or anything. Pathetic. Not even able to give it a paltry 0.1 per hit (when it would be fine to grant it S class status *I'd definitely settle for 0.5, but this tool needs something to explain why it is there beyond hit count...which it is also not that great for while being pretty unsafe if I remember right*).

E tier (Short of 0.01): AO, CoC, RH and FH

NOTE: The idea that even the ender of RH is this lacking is absurd. Really, these attacks are unsafe means to get hit count (ignoring that even CoC jobs to whiffs with the GoW1 combo reset), but you would one of them could be good for RP (maybe CoC) while another is good for dps (RH/FH) with AO just being about the utility (aerial bounce).

F tier (nothing at all): Lance of the Failures (shockwave)

NOTE: Frankly, F tier should be no less than what E fails to be (0.01). E climbs to 0.05 (making 10 CoC hits equivalent to just one C tier in the proposed change *really, CoC should be in that tier to begin with so it would ascend to 5RP as such*). D could be 0.1. C could bump up to 0.5. B to 1 (instead of 0.1). A to 2 (suddenly s1 is 2DMG and 2RP). S to 5 (for that big growth gap to be somewhat preserved). Bumping up like this ought to make getting to full RP far, FAR more doable with just slapping things (let alone taking damage, using grabs, etc.). Not like we can just 'spark it up' whenever. It has to be 100RP and can't be turned off, so this boost doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Rather, it is weird the amount of RP building doesn't increase with upgrades at all. If it started as sorry as it is in reality with lvl2, okay. By the time you get AB, you should definitely be at this level. People just sit on the mega elixir and I bet even THIS big of a boost wouldn't fully alleviate that (with the current duration left as is, too).

>Arty is exclusively A tier
How nice for it (just that it has that higher baseline DMG *and actual A tier is pretty meh versus my talk of 2RP per strike where a single Thrust would be suddenly worth 10RP per target*). For efficiency, use the weakest of its moves (and multi-strikes at that). Thrust domination? As ever. Not sure if we build RP on statues (pretty sure we don't get hit count on them in this outing, either).

>Orb Milks are B tier
Cute. Taking it up to 1RP each would have been great (quite tasteful). Though seeing this for a grab case makes me wonder about the DMG it deals (and if it scales at all).

>Takedown Stab, Rope Grab, Stuck Uppercut, Head Dash, Jaw Slice, Shoulder Throw, Shoulder Toss and Bloody Uppercut are all halfway to S tier
Towering over A tier already. If halfway to my S tier (5), it would be 2.5 for each of these.

>Chest Rip, 360 Toss, Wing Rip, OH, wall side-grab and air OS (harpies, minotaurs, wraiths, sirens, cerberus, centaurs and satyrs) are all half this
Even at 1.25 each (amped to match my scaled up balancing) the side-grab triple for 3.75 can't beat the upgrab's actual worth left as is (untouched gold). Amazin'. Just goes to show how much some things needed the help. That the cyclops OS DMG not only allow redirect (no collisions to my knowledge), but the same RP building is comical (though probably getting shortchanged considering he situation). Goats with their 0DMG and 0.25RP...it is something. 1.25RP each sure would be sexier (even if suddenly doing 10DMG *though it should be more like 100DMG each to match the fine move in GoWIII as dragging it out is just dumb when you're at the point of being able to land this repeatedly*).

>Gorgons with 0RP for air OS
>Groundbreaker, too
Probably a bug (should be the same as the others). If taken up to even just 1.25 per ground OS on a doppelganger, that would be a decent boon (though taking most of the 101 to go from empty to full again). But actual zip? Nada? Zilch? Ridiculous. Rigged. Ass. Fight.

>Upgrab, air OS (Clones), Eye Impale, Chest Impale (initiation) are fivefold S tier
Damn. 25RP would be crazy good. Easy as can be to get meter back like this (great for Clone War for damn sure). Walls would be good for refill, but asking for trouble if used while on them when not careful (given the dislodging thing if caught in the open).

>Head Slam for 50RP
>Limb Impale for 100RP
No changes needed. Perfectly sensible as is.

>S tier equivalents are Beheading, Chest Impale Toss, Stomp, Head Impale, Back Stab Impale, Leg Chop Impale and Staff Impale
Respectable enough. Still want them at 5RP. We could pretty reasonably start with RotG fueled by AB for infinite MP spam to fill one circle effortlessly (lvl2+ PR) and lazily get another session in short order even if working outside the circle. Bit over 15RP per pony (in my ideal) to have full again in the beast's number (roughly divided by 100). While not the most incredible play (still), it leaves an option if you didn't skip a feather (since there are no MP chests in the room). Could do a second session on the final ritual site and essentially NEVER use a single actual MP unit (then again, it isn't like the plethora of chests were failing to meet vet demands *generally*).

NOTE: Would have been funny if the MP chest in the Hydra King arena was a 50MP every 5s type (ultra casual strats). Likewise, if a final one existed in the AoH trial room (appearing suddenly after the cutscene *perhaps tucked away on the upper platform as a secret*). Just seems weird we had MP regen during the MG bit, one such chest for a puzzle using it and yet only the Zf trial had another (that never resolves *unlike the other*).

>Throat Stab and Head Rip are the only double S tiers
10RP in my book. Make that viper pit at the start of CoA work in our favor, I say. They start spamming bulls? Same thing.

>no RP for any of the spells
Zf needed this (though PR has an argument *with the name*, it requires no pity handouts). 1:1 for the sell price (not the sale price in cases like overcharge) suits me. Spent 20MP? Get 20RP. Only had 2.5? Still get 20RP. Only on-hit (per target, but not per hit). Something like this would be grand even before letting us build RP during RotG (potentially extending duration dramatically with ki barrages *make Bejita-sama proud and Zesty happy to see the spell doing well in the name of Papa Sparks*). This WOULD mean that upgrading would reduce RP building on bolt (from 5 to 2.5 *lvl1 to lvl3*), but I think that's still acceptable terms (versus an empty set *just a void of value*). Not sure what the drain rate actually is per second, but even if just one bolt landing per said unit of time...I feel like this would fight it off well (with armor and EP% nerf letting you go uninterrupted). Then stack Athena's Blessing to have infinite MP to fuel this approach (even before E reduces drain by 25% *offset by the 25% MP casting cost reduction, which would reduce the RP in question*). Don't even need to get into the suggestion that Zf itself gets buffed in terms of hit properties and DMG while in RotG (giving it something over the others) if only by x2 (as if open to P% though just a modifier in action here *still wouldn't help with sHP*).

NOTE: Speaking of sHP, I doubt the spells are getting improved via a modifier so much as replaced with a new baseline (like how Piercing Shards worked in GoWII). Tough to say for sure without testing.

>inconsistent rounding
At least it is far down the line. Should hardly factor.

>RP from hitting statues
Noice.

>crush/ruin afford no RP
Fair enough given the value already had from such things (though it could afford to be my F tier *negligible as even that is*).

>secondary of Spirit doesn't always let the primary give RP
Gross.

>tip-range t0/t3 get left holding the bill
Duly noted. Don't be super shallow.

>ass blast is kek'd
Well, at least it can count once.

>per target basis
Wonderful.

>breakables struck will count for RP building
Splendid.

>nothing for the sex mini-game
>women beating is good for RP
That's what I'm talking 'bout, Willis. I did this for Aphrodite in GoWIII (refilled RoS).

NOTE: Success should have wiped out our meter, but failure should have been worth some RP as you get taunted (10RP at least).

>armoring with MG, Zf, AoH, etc. even while taking the DMG will deny you RP
Yikes. Missed opportunity for really sticking it to enemy grapplers.

>rope slash doesn't always pay out the surplus for multi-hit
Shame.

>1RP or more to see bottom-left HUD icon
Makes sense.

>never truly reaches zero
>stops at just shy of 1 unit
Very odd, indeed.

>ANY strike on airborne Kratos is worth 0RP
Worth knowing.

>slapping the family builds RP despite no DMG or hit count
Well, well, well.

NOTE: I wonder if slapping NPCs works the same (Oracle, Gravedigger, etc.).

>active RotG disallows build-up as is
I got the feeling, yeah (times like using it during LPG and Ares1 made it clear).

>BotG is F tier
It has enough DMG to make-up for that (in the event it were usable in place of Arty). Or did you mean while it is out you get nothing (not just about the strikes, but it is akin to the air state thing)?

NOTE: Taking a break to eat. Might have to sit on the next reply for a bit (nap and such). Really wish I hadn't wasted so much time and energy, but family wanted to 'hang out' (in the young man way that is aimless *not efficient and purposeful*).

Yeah I more meant in terms of design. I.e. you have the name of the attack, a gif displaying the attack, and underneath all the values.

> host it
My recommendation: go for the most time-survivable. While I'd love to host it for you, the second I die or go bankrupt, this site is gone and your content with it. While that's unlikely to happen for the next 50~ years, you never know.

Google Docs isn't likely to bite the bullet. If you want I can make a first setup for you if you can give me 3 gifs of 3 attacks, make a template for you.

S+ tier (5) = Grab (CL *win*), Wall Grab (CL *win*), Eye Impale (CE *win*),

S tier (3) = Civvie Stabbins (civilians)

A tier (2) = Throat Stab (MG *win*), Beheading (Medusa *win*), Beheading (Gorgon *win*), Throat Stab (MHG *win*)

B tier (1) = Petrification Break-out (all)

C tier (0.5) = Bite (DH), Sweep (DH), Axe Push (MG), Axe Push (MHG), Stuck Uppercut (Wraith), Rising Attack (Wraith), Triple Slash (Wraith), Explosive Arrow (CA),

D tier (0.25) = Rising Attack (UL), Side Kick (SUL), Side Slash (SUL), Downwards Kick (SUL), Upwards Slash (SUL), Double Bite (HH), Surprise Attack (DH), Triple Head Pound (DH), Punch + Arrow (UA), Sweep (HT), Bite (HT), Central Bite (HK), Vertical Rotating Slash (CL), Rising Slash (CL), Side Kick (CL), Side Slash (CL), Downwards Kick (CL), Upwards Slash (CL), Rope Slash (CL), Mace Slam (CE), OH (Brute), Stomp (Brute), Shield Tackle (ML), Rising Attack (Wraith), Explosive Arrow (CA), Punch + Arrow (CA), Suction (TS),

E tier (0.125) = Double Slash (UL), Surprise Attack (HH), Head Swipe (HH), Swoop (Harpy), Triple Head Pound (DH), Arrow (UA), Punch + Arrow (UA), Grab (CL), Triple Axe Attack (MG), Spiked Mace (CE), Tail Swipe (Medusa), Lunge (Medusa), Tail Swipe (Gorgon), Lunge (Gorgon), Double Slap (Gorgon), Triple Hit Combo (MHG), Hammer Crush (MHG), Club Swipe (Brute), Double Slash (ML), Shield Push (ML), Jumping Slash (ML), Rising Attack (Wraith), Horizontal Rotating Slash (Wraith), Triple Slash (Wraith), Bomber (FH), Punch + Arrow (CA), Electric Sphere (DS), Electric Sphere (TS), Triple Electric Spheres (TS),

F tier (0) = Eye Impale (HH), Suction (DH), Triple Head Pound (DH), Devour (DH), Suction (HT), Impale (HK), Side Bite (HK), Roar (HK), Grab (CL),  Wall Grab (CL), Rope Grab (CL), Throat Stab (MG), Axe Slash (MG), Triple Axe Attack (MG), Eye Impale (CE), Mace Charge (CE), Mace Slam (CE), Beheading (Medusa), Stare (all), Beheading (Gorgon), Throat Stab (MHG), Hammer Shockwave (MHG), Hammer Crush (MHG), Club Smash (Brute), Grab (Brute), Jumping Slash (ML), Grab (FH), Flash (DS), Rotating Spiked Wheels,

NOTE: Felt too lazy to clarify in the tier list about what part of an entry in multiple tiers qualifies.  Mast Headbutt (HT) isn't classified yet.  Mast Fall (HK) as another (0RP).  If this list were adjusted for RP versus DMG taken (even setting aside EP% scaling cases) for tiers there would definitely be some amendments to placement.  Really should properly split off throw cases from this.  Keep it just about their attacks on us landing.  Another list can have reversals of their throws and our own grabs.

>false OS on breakables
I forget what Zim and I estimated that at in terms of a per case basis.  Given we don't start at 0, it would likely be slightly overestimated.  Would have been a tough thing to guess that was how it was (approximated 'breakpoints' along the 'meter', too *always forget what they were as they aren't sensible places*).

>sHP DMG
It will be interesting to see this matter of petrification details investigated in the future for sure.  I suppose one could ask how much RES Kratos has in GoW1 (if still focusing on this entry), but having the values not given by future guides has my attention just a bit more (by priority).  Pretty sure Krate has more RES than UA (2K), but less than CA (10K).  Clones are 12K, but I'm pretty sure that will prove better than us.  Maybe tied with FL (8K)?  Think I recall trying to stand next to an CA as a GA was staring at us only to turn before it while we were both the focus at the same time throughout.  Our sHP is surely 1.

>NA PS2 version for testing
Preferred for authenticity.  Still, wouldn't be surprising (given the scope of the blunders in the port) if some things...didn't translate 1:1.  This while ignoring regions.

>Y/N for blocking/parrying
I'll keep that in mind.

>hazards are above i-frames
Quite.

>other exceptions
Explosive arrow, some LPG stuff, etc.

>hit reaction note
Clear.

>order of operations
Copy that.

NOTE: Can't wait to see just how strong the multi-hit of sneks can be (then comes the RP building stuff *to compare with the tiers above, see what their amp would be like and find myself wishing it scaled 1:1 with DMG taken ignoring other factors for default and maybe adjusting this with settings to 2:1 for E, 25% less than N on H and 50% less than default on VH*).  With hit properties, one just hopes there are no complicating factors like an attack catching you while already in some other state changes what it does meaningfully (it happens for us, but it isn't often you would find that being true of foes, I'd think).

>7DMG per punch
Presumably not adjusted by any factor (despite the RP building being suspect).

>3DMG knockback
That what the 'whip' motion affords (same for all settings)?  Suppose that isn't worth any RP (as with collisions).

>0DMG 'grab select' escape
>taunt
One wonders if it is always the same one (since they have multiple).

>interrupt
By anything, I presume (unlike some armored cases going forward).

NOTE: Should be obvious enough, but killing, petrification, falling off a cliff, etc. would interrupt most things (generally).

>between B and A tier for each hit of Double Slash
1.5RP (each) in my scale.  I wonder if I should make another tier list for enemy attacks upon us here.  Probably.  We'll see.

>Rising Attack at 6
And as we recall from VH Tyco, the x20 means this is already a oneshot for MIN HP (one extension can save you).  5 or higher covers true base there.  7 or higher for one extension.  8 or higher for two.  9 or higher for three.  10 or higher and even MAX bar won't protect you from a single such blow (that scales with EP%).

>attacked while grounded
I forget if it has to be by us (and if all our options trigger it *including knockback collisions, AoH, PR, etc.*).

>effect
Too bad we don't know more about each of these (how long they play out, what can cancel/shorten them if anything, etc.).

>exceeds A tier though still a quarter of S tier
Seems like we really should have that other tier list, then.  So be it.

>no rope attacks
How sad for them to never get this chance.

>wall collisions are uniques
Yes, as we had discussed earlier (fun find).  Thus VH Tyco sides would be 400 each (possible 400/400/400 for 1.2K *no Titan Minotaurs from a different timeline present where they got installed into walls*) and ups would be 500.

>block/parry on wall attacks
Hard to encounter them when grounded.  I think you can, but it would be a rare case (like being hit while on a wall *think we are detached from the wall when struck this way, but I forget the particulars*).

>3DMG for each wall strike
How nice for us they don't get buffed like we do (and their slashes aren't better than kicks *which are inferior to wake-up*).  Probably should scale down the kick to 2 (or even 1).  Bit sad the slash isn't a bit stronger here (4).

>specifics for dropping, killing and regen on Hall Hydra
Love it.

>flat 10DMG on OS kill fail
VH Tyco bros...we can survive this (since this ain't GoS)!

>Surprise Attack has kiddy gloves
Understandable.

NOTE: I'll resist the temptation to comment on how things work for VY Tyco.  Not like the run is being done (again) right now.

>can hit again on the right
I forget the exact placement.

>first hit misses on the left
Something I took advantage of.

>no chance values
Wouldn't want to mess with that, either.

>10HP orbs
Not just 7, eh?  Nice on-hit treat.  I forget what EXP was.  Think it was 1 unit (in the rare event you got one this way).

NOTE: I remember using false OS to 'hit' as a 0DMG way to get such things, but I forget if the PAL version gets the bugged RP building for false OS generally (or if it would require a case like this *should that work, even*).  Those seeking a RotG focused run were truly blessed in that region (not sure about JP *or if there were more than three versions*).

>up to 3 hits on Swoop
>if stuck in contact with us
Going full Gorgie.  3/3/3 is meaty even before scaling.

>parry for knockback acting like a half collision
A fun instance to be sure.

NOTE: Odd this variant shown to grab doesn't do it on us (let alone rally for a group grab).

>75DMG reversal
Delightful even before the free hits.

NOTE: Presumably the HP/EXP drops are like with HH.

>Surprise Attack for 0DMG and 0.25RP
I love surprises now!

>can't interrupt Succ
Save by closing in as it starts it up (think it skips to taunt) or taking it to 0HP.

>reminder note
How considerate.

>notes safe spot
Generous, indeed.  Good to know from where you can attack without reprisal (just as it is good to know when something like t0/t3 can land since the hurtbox won't always be low enough).

>Triple Head Pound
Order being left, right and center, I think.  I don't believe being off the ground helped when in the AoE.

>first in the series is just 0RP
>others depend on how you get hit
Okay.

>Devour
Fun to have attacks like some of these that will activate even when you're already just outside their actual reach (good spacing will bait AND clear them).  Positioning is already nice for environmental types just to pick what attacks you deal with, but this is another level of exploiting the system.

>2EXP orb drop
A rarity, but they existed, yes.

>enemy taunts
Pity these completing don't offer even a smidgen of RP (Kratos taking exception to it).

>2DMG knockback for UA off the whip in 360 toss
Hmmm, yes.

>no EXP for Chest Rip
The 0EXP special (for GoW1).  Power/Red/Upgrade orbs would be their own bother to see about the particulars to.  I'm somewhat running into a bit of that during Zesty's 'greedy' runs.

NOTE: I probably should have made a 'throw' RP tier List.  Maybe later.  We'll see.  Definitely not doing things by DMG any time soon (if at all).  I can sort of save commentary on how DMG is balanced for that day, I guess.

>3DMG throws
Hilarious.  Is this the future Jason envisioned for us?

>no scaling for their projectile
And yet explosives await....

>conditional for when archers will have melee or not
A thing that depends, yes.

>'Punch' scales
Yet not so much the follow-up I should think.  It really gets to scale (so the 2DMG arrow suddenly can be 40 on VH Tyco)?  Surely not.

>HP particulars of Hydra Twins
NICE.

>no mast headbutt
Bah.  Pretty sure it is 0DMG (might be invincible, too), but I wasn't sure about tier placement.  Can't include it presently.

NOTE: Same notes for 'sweep' as before.  They've got a different orb drop chance (includes MP now).

>attacks is half as potent for HT
>needs double hits
Sucks for them.

>interrupt via PR
Specific.

NOTE: Still wish you could bait times where the anchor could land on them without setting up via DMG threshold.

>Mast Slam as 'Impale'
Righty-o.

>Central Bite
While I have no need to go over VH Tyco again, vanilla VH's MIN for one-shot would be 20.  This takes 75% of the full starting bar.  A heavy blow, indeed.  I forget the specific point 'critical' is reached, but this seems about right.

>Push instead of downing
Weird.  This while the side version has bounce.  One with precious little RP and the other with none.

>anti-roar tech
Think even air block prevents going over (aside from just hanging *ledge or mast*).  Pursue ignores it.  Think PR, too.

>Mast Fall
Part of the 'unclassified' list (not named).

>CL Orb Milk up to 15DMG
Not quite perfectly proportionally scaled (otherwise it would be 16 to match the result with UL), but they do seem to be going for that as is typical of GoW1.

NOTE: Sort of pity we never get a grappler costume able to grab things 'early' (OS DMG whenever and OS kill much earlier, more DMG for all grab instances, no recoil for false OS *maybe instead interrupting non-defending foes to make them flinch instead where applicable without just getting to grab all the time*, no i-frames for OS DMG when done outside "O" *to give it risk if not also being open to interruption*, etc.).  Could even make it a Luchadore (not only amp grabs, but amp aerial strikes if only to grounded foes *though nerfing P% otherwise*).  Needing cheats to bypass this protection is a pity.

>10HP over time
All at once after recovering or actually as described?

>3DMG for their primary attack
You would think it would slightly stronger than what their lesser works with (so 4).

NOTE: More is the pity their jump is a fake air state.  Intercepting with OH or air OS would be funny high level tech.

>multi-hit spells stuff the wake-up
I see.  Still triggered, then shut down.

>10 flat DMG and 5 scaling DMG from throw loss
Oof.  +25 to the 10 (35) for vanilla VH.  NGR+ is taking a nasty one for getting caught.  Being that this is not a 'true' grab (not even forcing parry) AND you can struggle out (don't think it has initiation damage *though I forget if it deals foul tip DMG*) this is reasonable.  You definitely need to pay a steep price if you're this incompetent.

>10 flat DMG for reversing them
They become a half collision or a full one or what?  Pretty sure they collide with others when tossed this way.

>parried or evaded
Ah, right.  I so rarely see this I'd forgotten it was a melee that follows up the slam from this Full Nelson.  Thus NGR+ would only have to eat the first part.  NBR+ NEvR+ kiddies would be suffering the full DMG if somehow failing to escape (better be a NGR+, too *no excuses*).

>5RP for reversing the throw
Excelsior.

NOTE: I suppose crap like the adjusted RP balancing could have been a costume thing (again).  This one might presumably scale up to 25RP (huge chunk).

>wall stuff
>no Downward Slash
Traded it for the grab, then?

>scaling 1DMG and 0RP activation for wall grab landing
Though I think I've seen times it fails to do DMG.  This aside from them missing just to grab the wall (though I don't recall seeing them failing to catch it just to die *not even two at once comes to mind*).

>no EXP for reverse
This along with no bonus (forget if hit count is lost).  GoWIII had very different feelings for these things.

>instant death even over ground inches below
Part of the charm (while our side-grab tossing them as such results in them surviving).

NOTE: Somewhat ludicrous Krate never learned to traversal block (yet had it for Tug-of-War).

>side-grab up to a flat 70DMG
So close to taking them out in one go.  Still need to see how FL turns out.

>0RP for Rope Grab reverse
Pity.

>no initiation DMG
It helps.

>another case not caring if there is ground just inches below
Silly.

>30HP for OS kill
With how GoW1 works it VH won't adjust this.  Had it been this amount in GoWII?  Down to 7.5HP (with GK down to 3.75).  Perhaps the reduction is too drastic when considering balancing of N versus other settings?  75% for H seems fine, but straight to 25% for VH?  Bit of a jump.  Perhaps 50% would have been more tasteful.  Let GK pick up the slack (or some more extreme attire in that regard).

>Axe Push for 0DMG and 0.5RP
Bueno.

>interrupt rules for Axe Slash
Good to share the wealth.

>taunts on-hit
Probably because you're half dead and didn't get any RP at all.

>bounce
Is this an overhead chop (cleave)?  I feel like it is.

>parrying for unreliable interrupt
Good stuff.

NOTE: I forget if the Triple jails.  If so, NBR caught with the first might just be combo'd to death at MIN (for vanilla VH).  Don't think that's how it is, but it would be amusing.

>variable HP release
Eye (I) see.

>even the avoidable part of the QTE fail is fixed
Unexpected.  Thought they would let the fiver go up to 25 so you really eat it for being such a goof.  Even if you ate it and the other (and it scaled) it wouldn't one-shot our base self (unlike the Tyrant in GoS who does this to our MAX bar BEFORE you can possibly struggle free of even more DMG).  Lack of RP for failure takes some of the wind from the ol' sails.

>still just 5RP for a winning QTE
Probably going to be standard.

>one or two 10HP drops
Upon reaching Wander, specifically.

>Spiked Mace
>1DMG
>hits a lot
It would have to so one doesn't laugh at it.  That just means IF it can hit 10 times the RP goes up to 1.25 for suffering 10DMG.  Not bad.  I would have expected the last hit to be some higher value or something.

>lunge can foul tip for 0DMG
Lucky.  Still 0RP.

>8/2
It ever land both or just one or the other?

>Medusa with the big heal
Sweet (this aside from the MP regen state).

>Tail Swipe
Pretty high value this early for how sudden this is.

>Lunge is 4 per instance
>unspecified potential
Probably up to 3 times (4/4/4 for 12 *thus 60 on VH*).  Not the worst way to build RP there.

>1RP for petrification break-out
That good free stuff.  Might also be worth highlighting especially good things to exploit (like the freebies *that can be repeated if not forced*).

>nerfed Tail Swipe when not a sub-boss
Good.

>follow-up hits of Lunge drop to 2 each
>same RP building for both
So something like 4/2/2, maybe?

>technical interruption
The best kind.

>tries for a slow lunge after stare
>regardless of successful proc of status affliction
Sure.

>Axe Push
Hammer Push.

>rewarded with 37HP
Always 37 and not just with a bonus orb when hurt?

>Hammer Shockwave fully scales
So even their shockwave becomes buff.

>>taunts to rub it in
Even with just one or the other, I suppose.

>always after a stomp
Just how he shows affection.

>if within range or grabbing a civvie
I was more under the impression it was if it hits us, allies or NPCs (not so much objects).

>PR can interrupt the infinite sweeping
Good for it.

>15DMG and 0RP off the grab
At least this fast true throw doesn't doesn't scale.

>10-20HP for DMG
>20-30HP for OS kill
1-2 orbs and 2-3 orbs respectively, then?

>heavy civvies
And immune to petrification.  True CHADS.

>enchanted shield
I suppose slaps (even false OS) on the shield doesn't generate any RP, then (if breaking it still won't).

>16DMG orb milk
This is the correct proportions (unlike the hacked CL case).

>paltry 1/1
Look at them!  Look at them and LAUGH!

>s6 interrupt on Shield Push
Interesting.

NOTE: You would think this would be a 0DMG tool to open up our guard and maybe help others combo (or get a free hit on a casual or unlucky challenge runner).

>double tap for Shield Tackle
Probably still not as annoying as the GoWIII version (by a long shot).

>often does Double Slash after it
Just doesn't jail, I imagine.  Maybe for some sorry sap made to just eat it (challenge or casual).  Does it care if you block it, it hit an ally or made the thing whiff?

>Jumping Slash is another with a 0RP extra
Fun.

>shield destruction harms them
Can't be helped (usually).

>only double slash must have the cue of drumming his board
Right, right, right.

>SML
Only in CotG1 (and likely to help casuals beat it with that little extra leeway HP).  Still weird that the guide acted like it was 160.

NOTE: I'm opting out of repeating with 'SML' cases.

>Stuck Uppercut
Able to hit chaps too close to the thing (launcher).  Hard to say if it is 0.5RP for that, too (or the DMG for the 'hit' version).

>the throw itself scales with P% and modifiers
They only have 40HP.  If we're fourfold stronger, they just die outright from full life, then.  MAX BoC already grants 4.0.  Even at just 2.0 (lvl3) on N you could use RotG for x2 P%.  I somehow doubt it does this in GoWII, but we'll see.  Should be easy to see E Tyco just using OS DMG to insta-kill them even with lvl1 BoC.  Of course, this also means it takes a nerfing along with us (VH DB for 2.5DMG to go along with the RP rate it had making its efficient in that sphere higher, at least).

>Rising Attack
Burrow was a complicated one, I see.

NOTE: Nothing quite like doing this sort of thing and being forced to take a break (losing the mindset and your place). Only thing better is losing all you wrote (avoided that, at least).

>Bomber used to job to whatever
Odd. I don't recall it caring about anything in GoWII (upgraded the thing). Sort of a pity you can't intercept with air OS or OH such that it explodes on impact to deal bomber damage to opps.

>double hit
I presume the 1DMG is from the fall with the 7 from the explosion.

>parry part of the damage
Could make it survivable in some situations, but still not a great option (since our parry doesn't give i-frames just yet). I feel like air block should work on the first and avoid the second, but I don't remember that working out (maybe it drags you down or truly ignores air block *atypical of air block to fail where parry works*).

>air block strats
Ayyy, so it was a thing (even if height is a factor since the explosion probably reaches off the ground a little).

>kek their grab with Rush
Fun to have a near overlap of hurtbox and hitbox be the thing shutting them down. Of course, this is just an on-hit grab (it being lower priority isn't too strange).

>activation DMG scales
Probably also the foul hit DMG, I'd guess. Full potential in NGR+ on VH being 17 each time you get caught, then. Not as fearsome as 40 (bomber), but still nothing to sneeze at. A fine thing it didn't go full GoS else it would have been 65. More than half the starting bar, but STILL a blockable open to interruption (so not as bad as things in that entry by a long shot *even with this amp*).

>0RP
Just take the L, then.

>air OS intercept it for a trade
Don't remember trading with OS (or OH when something else happens to have triggered it and another flies in to eat shit for them). The more you know.

>Cursed Archer
I don't remember UL doing this (maybe), but I've been seeing them fire their arrows during the tailspin of knockback (just waiting to see that be a kill shot on a player *good laugh there*). This aside from weird break-out during 360 toss.

>explosive arrow
I imagine the friendly fire case is just an instant version of the timed case (so 4 rather than 5). Still pretty wild that they didn't make it 1/4 with only maybe the former scaling. Projectiles scaling is cold blooded. 25DMG for a direct hit and 20 for indirect. That's not playing around. Part of why the Pentashot later will be so deadly. Presumably that is 100-125DMG coming your way (if all hit). Enough to insta-kill from full in NUR+.

>bow slapping is equal to an explosive arrow
At least it is blockable. Half-surprised the arrow didn't get to be explosive (or Penta later). Guess that would have been too much, eh?

>MG trick to armor Flash
I'm sure lovers of 'style' can dig it (versus just slapping her or getting outside the AoE).

>t0/t3 to overcome heal menance during DMG kill
Good times. Just 3,334 Plumes, bro. Keep going. You got this.

>Rotating Spiked Wheels
I forget what the HP I'd tested for it was. Think it was ~30.

>scaled 33
Oof. They really wanted you dead for going into it on VH (165).

>no RP for taking hits
>hits on it mostly build RP normally
Alright, then.

>bolt weaker than sub-boss version
Expected this, actually. Too bad for the sub-boss their version doesn't scale. 30DMG compared to 5 would be a pretty notable gap. You wouldn't want to carelessly keep eating the former at all. Having it guard break (if not being unblockable) would help justify their otherwise lackluster moveset. Normies can't be interrupted? Alright.

>succ guard break is a 0DMG of D tier
Not too shabby.

>Triple Electric Sphere buffs bolts with homing and sub-boss DMG
At least they friendly fire for a 'Homerun' reaction (even if dealing no DMG). Lack of scaling keeps them from being too capable (else 90DMG would mean it is a bit...strong *even if blockable*).

>petrification oddity with dizzy/wander
A classic.

>particulars of the "O"
Fun stuff, indeed.

>9MP for OS kill
>20HP from OS DMG
Right.

>odd instance of glitch death outside the norm
Just GoW1 things.

NOTE: Storm rolling through. Not taking chances. I'll resume later.

Roy:

>make a template
Appreciate the assistance.

>Gifs
In a moment. Need to turn the clips into gifs and upload them somewhere (does this site allow embedding? If not, then maybe imgur). But what of stuff that have audio cues? I was sure that these clips weren't recorded with audio, but luckily, it seems I was wrong on that one.

GMG: Appreciate you going over the notes. I'll respond to these later. While I was collecting the clips for enemy attacks (I'm already done), I tested some things you mentioned along the way. To be specific:

- The Oracle (fine or wounded), and the gravedigger do not build up RP (shame). That means the women in the ship and the family are the only instances of NPCs where hitting them allows us to build up the meter via hits.

- Hades Captains have 16K RES. Minofrauds have 7K RES, which is consistent with what the guide says, so perhaps all of it is correct.

And one more thing. While I didn't get to review all of it, I noticed that most of the 'Push/Knelt/Bounce/Down' cases build up the meter by 0.25, while 'Hit' only does so by 0.125. That 0.5 case from Minotaurs (Hammer/Axe Push *I was sure I corrected the latter, by the way*) must have been a multi-hit instance (too fast to keep track of *like Satyrs, Ares 1, a bit of LPG, and Ares 2*). On the other hand, this would explain why armoring with MG/Zf/AoH and even getting hit in the air does not allow you to get any RP. It's about the respective animations playing out, not so much about the damage taken, or a specific attack in question hitting you (which in turn would explain why Hall Hydra has values at all, given that the devs most likely thought that you wouldn't be having Lv 2 BoC just yet *if cutscenes are anything to go by*). There's even 0DMG cases that build up the meter, so it makes perfect sense. Perhaps that's what's happening with the false OS animation in the EU version. They assigned a value to it each time Kratos does said animation.

Note: Not sure what to do with Petrification Points. Unlike MP cost, RES immediately starts increasing the moment you let go of the button, and of course, it isn't an integer. 'Petrification Potential' must have been an estimation, as I don't believe that there's any foe with that much RES. Flash does seem like it's worth 8K PP (emphasis on 'seem', RES increases way too fast *I can't even freeze the value like how I'd do it with HP or MP to simulate an infinite effect*). I could probably tap the button and immediately pause the game. But even said tap would be variable (depends on the frame I press Select or Start at).

I'll be testing these other things you mentioned. But first, the gifs for Roy.

Let's see. Test #1.

(Undead Legionnaire) Double Slash


(Undead Legionnaire) Rising Attack


(Hall Hydra) Surprise Attack


Oh. There we go.

I will add the following information to my posts tomorrow, but just wanted to put this here for everyone to see.

But before that, a list of changes:

- Added t0 to the list of BoC strikes for RP building.
- Added Mast Headbutt to the list of attacks from HT.
- Added (for fun, not really useful information outside cheats) orb milk punch data for FLs.
- Added the rewards for beating Hall Hydra and Deck Hydra.
- Corrected the thing about Hammer Grunts giving 37HP. You only get 7HP if you have critical health (and even then, that's only a possibility).

Now, take this pasta, and enjoy it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
MAX number of hits for PR Lv 1: 13
Total damage: 32.5

MAX number of hits for PR Lv 2: 25
Total damage (non-Wrath): 83.325195
Damage for Wrath: 118.129883

Note: The above is just what I was able to get. You could get more (or less). Personally not a good button masher, myself.

MAX number of hits for PR Lv 3: 37
Total damage (non-Wrath): 154.178711
Damage for Wrath: 222.022461 (See the above note)

Note: I realize that the non-Wrath value for PR Lv 3 is different than the one I presented (albeit by decimals). But I tested it with different enemies (425HP one vs a 10.000HP one), so that must be on the game. Definitely not an extra or missing hit, or else there would be a +/- 4 or 6 difference. The Wrath one doesn't matter when compared to the old one, I just happened to be better at mashing this time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

>Zf double hit
Weird. It does 90 damage to the Desert Siren (consistently). It can't be the 20 value, as it wouldn't add up. But the hit counter says I hit her twice, so either the hit counter is lying and I landed three hits (65/12.5/12.5), or something is amiss (like a mysterious 25 value). I checked again. Managed to pause when the 65 hit landed, so that value is still correct. Resumed the game, and her HP now displays 9910.

Tried again with 'Stun'. Her HP now displays 9955, and the hit counter displays 2. Given what we know about the spell, it must have dealt 20/12.5/12.5 damage. That's the only way it makes sense. Just to be clear, I tried again and paused the game at the right time. Went from 9980 to 9955.

Tried against a Minotaur Hammer Grunt. Went from having 160HP to 95HP with 'Charge' (hit counter didn't come up, so the spell only hit the bull once). That's consistent with what we know about the spell (65HP for 'Charge').

Switched targets again. Cyclops Enforcer. 'Charge' did the usual 65/12.5 damage to him (130->57.5), but the splash damage did... 7.5 damage to his ally (130->122.5)? Okay. Hit counter is at 3, by the way. Used 'Charge' again on his ally just to make sure. 122.5->50 (65/12.5, which is what we know about the spell), and this also hit his ally, which left them both at 50 (hit counter displayed 3 again). Using 'Stun' on one of them deals 27.5DMG (130->102.5, hit counter is at 2).

Conclusion? The spell works differently against different targets, there was an unaccounted (until now) 7.5 value, and the hit counter was most likely lying for the Desert Siren case (read the note about using Zf against statues further below, for a few more details). The weird thing is that the Desert Siren, while a smaller target (but can't get knocked back or launched), received more damage than the Cyclops Enforcer. 'Stun' either has no splash damage or the AoE is very small. Only managed to land a half collision against a nearby Minotaur.

----------------------------------------------------------------

MAX hits for AoH Lv 1: 39
Damage potential: 390

MAX hits for AoH Lv 2: 32
Damage potential: 480

MAX hits for AoH Lv 3: 36
Damage potential: 720

Note: Tested this against two of the best targets to... test this on (Ares 1 and Desert Sirens). The former had his HP reduced from 4000 to 3280, and the latter had hers from 10000->9280. Of course, this is using Lv 3 AoH as a reference. Repeated it 3 times against each (for every level), and the results were consistent.

Also, to note it, there's 3 souls for Lv 1 AoH. 4 for Lv 2, and 6 for Lv 3. I used Lv 3 AoH against the Enforcers/Minotaurs in the destroyed temple, and the souls vanished after 36 hits. Same against the Clone War. So the number of targets doesn't seem to matter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Tempest of the Fates does not have a message upon upgrading to Lv 4 BoC. You must manually check the movelist just to see a new move being unlocked.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not notice a 25% reduction on spell cost on E.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

RotG s1's damage against a statue was 7. On Normal. No costumes. Though I did switch to VH, just in case. There was no difference. Same thing happened with BoC upgrades (nothing). For raffs, I downgraded the BoC to Lv 1 during the RotG state, and was still able to deal 7DMG to the statue. But normally, Lv 1 strikes during RotG deal 0DMG, so that was surprising. t1 dealt 4/4/4 damage, and T dealt 14. Air R1? 4. Godly Plume (not the t0 replacement)? 15. So, yeah, looks like everything sees its value divided by 3 when dealing against statues. Even looked around for a Hammer Grunt, since his sHP (if the guide is correct) is the only one that's able to survive t0's (Spirit) new value (25). Indeed, he could withstand it. He had 1sHP left.

Discovered something. Not sure why, but the sHP value is able to go into negative number territory. This should help with testing.

Spells? Some interesting results.

Zf still deals 8DMG per level. With 'Stun', the value went from 26 down to -9. So, perhaps it did 20/7.5/7.5 DMG? To note it, the value first went from 26 to 6 (had to pause to see this), then it went directly to -9. Odd, if it was a multi-hit case, I would have expected it to stop at -1.5. Weird. So... maybe the hit counter wasn't lying for the Desert Siren case? So now there's a confirmed 7.5 value (thanks to Enforcers, and splash damage), and the possibility of an unified 25 value (from adding 12.5 and 12.5 together, if we are to believe what the hit counter said before). Simply amazing, GoW1. Anyway, moving onto 'Charge', the value went down to -39. So it means it dealt the usual 65. Good, I suppose.

PR? Another interesting case. Testing Lv 3 first. Its values appear to be whole numbers (not decimals). Presumably 4, since it stopped at 2 (while pausing), then went down to -2. Wrath? It obviously varies, but the final value seems to fluctuate between 0 and -4 (could possibly go down further). I saw it dealing 5 damage while pausing, so perhaps it can deal anything in the range of what we know about the spell, but using whole numbers instead. Downgrading to Lv 1, it seems the spell deals 2... sDMG now. I can confidently say that's the correct value, since I managed to pause the game while the Minotaur's sHP was at 2, and it went down to 0. Lv 2? 3sDMG (non-Wrath *last value before shattering was 2, and the final value was -1*). For Wrath, it seems the best I can get is 4sDMG, but it can probably go to 5. Interesting results nonetheless.

AoH? Didn't seem to affect the Minotaur (sHP or regular HP), at least during petrification. Using AoH before petrification (then afflicting the status) still did nothing to sHP, but it ate his regular HP. Also saw a 'O' while he was a statue. But we already knew about this.

Bonus: It seems fall damage to statues is... variable. Hammer Grunt got his 26sHP reduced to 8 (to clarify, not BY 8, but TO 8 *same applies for the following values*) once, then 9, then 10, then 12, then 14, then 16, then 18, then 19... then 20. It seems altitude is 100% a factor, because with T's maximum altitude, I could only reduce it to 8. Waiting until the very last moment reduced it to 20. Using a bounce (at its maximum altitude)? Seems to reduce it to 10 (odd, because T is probably able to send them flying at twice the altitude). No, wait, the absolute minimum for a normal launch seems to bring it down to 7sHP. Okay. What if I use Punt? Targeting seems uncooperative, but it seems possible. Oh, splendid. Got his sHP down to 4, then 2, then 1. Come on, this is the 10th time now, this can't be the absolute maximum damage. Let's use Homerun into Pursue. Yes! That's what I'm talking about. I actually shattered him. Really interesting info.

Note: Getting X, Y and Z coordinates is going to be a lot of work, so I won't be able to determine the different values for each coordinate in the air. I would probably need the help of frame advance, so all of this is off-limits to me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

HP upon death?

From 1-24: Brings us to 25.
From 25? 35, after 3 deaths.
From 35? 45, after 1 death.
From 45->55. 1 death.
From 55->65. Used a checkpoint here.
From 65->75, after 4 deaths.
From 75->85, after 1 death.
From 85->95, still after 1 death.
From 95->105. 1 death.

I think we get the idea now.

You enter Critical status at 25HP.

Orb Milk Punch deals 30DMG to FLs. Couldn't keep punching him after 40HP, he just dropped to the floor with 10HP (but the punch animation didn't play out). 30HP left for Takedown. 31 just makes him drop with 1HP left.

OMP does not scale with settings.

CL Reversal Throw is... nothing, in terms of collisions. I know it is hard to believe, so I brought another gif with me:



Pay attention to the values in the bottom right corner. 'CL2' is the CL being thrown. Notice that his ally reacted to the hit, alright, but the value from 'CL' did not change. I attack them afterwards to demonstrate that the value from 'CL' can change. If anyone is curious, the difficulty is set to 2 (in other words, Hard), so a full collision deal 25 damage, which you can see if you pay attention to the values (though I admit it is a bit hard to see). Let's also recall that OH does 22 damage to them.

Mast Fall does nothing for HP or RP.

Lunge has a x3 hit potential.

t3's secondary is indeed 3, and AO's ender does deal 1.5 at base. Double checked.

An example layout could be like this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18W533OQNupfkTkVKhwtGbzoqI3sjS0s72CdaSZQj9Ic/edit?usp=sharing

On the left you also see the collapsible Summary/table of contents. I've given the enemyname a Header-2, and the attackname a Header-3, so that they're always nicely sorted as such so you can quickly navigate to them. Let me know if something like this works.

Some small notes regarding it:
- it's in googledocs, made it editable for all who have the link, so you can just copy, edit, whatever. In the future I'd ofc. recommend giving limited editing-access.
- you have to download the gifs and 'insert' them (simply pasting through ctrl-v will turn them into stills).
- it's not too much work once the template is set down, so once you have all the data and images you should be able to set this up in an afternoon I'd reckon.

>link
Looks neat. I wanted to edit the second one, but forgot to make a copy first. And when I did it, I closed the original tab, and didn't undo what I did. But still, I have the first table for reference (and now I have an idea on what to do, given what I saw).

>if it works
The only thing I can think of right now is what to do with enemies with lots of attacks (like Satyrs, Pandora's Guardian, or perhaps even Ares 1). Not sure if one can fit 4 or more images in one table. If so, should I make another table for the same enemy, as a continuation?

>notes
Got it. Again, thanks for the help.

> more moves for an enemy
I think max is 3 in Google Docs. On a website you could probably do 4-5, but after that you're sacrificing legibility. You want me make one on a hidden Stinger-page for you, show you what it looks like on there?

> thanks for the help
Least I can do after jobbing so badly in GoW for the last two decades.

Well, looks like merging the above notes with my other posts won't be possible, since I would exceed the character limit. So it will have to stay where it is.

>max is 3 in Google Docs
Do you mean in general (3 gifs per document), or 3 gifs per table? If it's the latter, it would be a matter of asking people if creating multiple tables for the same enemy would be alright with them. I'd have to think about a way to make them easily accessible like you did in that link, though. Someone else who has played GoW, hmm. What do you think, @Birdman ?

>hidden Stinger page
Depends, if the Google Docs route seems too limiting, why not? But if people don't have an issue with the above, I'll try to do that instead (remembering your advice about using the most time-survivable method, though I do hope this forum *and you* stay around for a long time).

One more thing, it seems I won't have much time to do anything tomorrow (being a holyday and all), and I suspect that the first 7 days of January are going to be pretty busy for me (as tends to be the case every year). So, chances are that I won't be able to finish this as early as I had envisioned, but rest assured that I will do so.

Yeah I'm mostly with family and friends too these days, so I'm off a bit too.

> 3 gifs per table
Yeah that's what I mean. Not sure tbh how the doc. will react when it's filled with 50+ gifs, might get some speed-issues. We can test this pretty easily thankfully (just copy paste a few hundred times, see what happens).

> site version
I'll put it on my to-do list next week.

Excuse the delay. Just came to say that I haven't forgotten about this. Just finished editing all the gifs (excuse the fact that their colors look washed out, the software I've used to convert the clips to gifs all made them look like this for some reason, but it gets the point across perfectly fine)... or well, so I thought. It looks like I'm missing something from Ares 1 and Hades Satyrs, so I'm going to go get them. Hopefully nothing else is missing.

>speed issues
I'm going to do what you said and get back to you.

Okay, this took me an unbelievably long time than it should have, but I was busy with another project. Just did something simple that took me 1 minute. Copy/pasted post 161 a bunch of times in the Google Doc. I want people to click on it, and tell me if you experience any speed issues. To note it, I don't experience such issues myself (and it might be different with text compared to gifs).

Here's what you're supposed to be seeing:

- The first table (courtesy of Raeng). It should have two working gifs.
- An empty table
- The copypasta.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OQvo-0i2-ZyjHJDP0b5ckffyMc7qWNenk0WleXUz2AM/edit#heading=h.8ugndjdrengz

Edited Post 150. Corrected the following:

- Failure for the circle mashing part of Ares 1's fight does 2/3/40 damage, not 2/3/30 (or else it wouldn't be able to one-shot you on VH).
- Pandora's Guardian can use Fire Breath on Stage 1.

Added the following (even if it's not too useful):

- Failure for the on-screen prompts part of Ares 1's fight does no damage to Kratos, and does not build his RP.

As for the bestiary, I realized that I was missing even more clips, but thankfully it was just a few, and my save states took me directly to the enemies whose attacks I had missed. I've uploaded them all to imgur now. I'll get to work on the bestiary later, or on Monday. I won't be able to do so tomorrow.

Ok then, I was told that the link in post 168 requires people to ask me for permission in order to open it. Try using the link Raeng gave me instead:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18W533OQNupfkTkVKhwtGbzoqI3sjS0s72CdaSZQj9Ic/edit#heading=h.8ugndjdrengz

This one shouldn't ask you to do the above. All the changes I've made in the other link have been pasted in this link. As I said, though, I won't be able to make any progress today. If everything goes well, the bestiary should be done sometime between Wednesday and Friday.

I can't believe my eyes. I'm missing even more gifs (a generic Gorgon's tail attack, and a GA's slow version of 'Lunge'). Could've sworn I had them all by now.

Anyway, made it to Cyclops Brute for now. But you will not see the changes (in any of the links), since my Internet has been unstable as Hell today (so the changes haven't been able to get saved *only on my device, I'm doing this offline*).

I'll get the gifs later, then see if I can make it to Fire Harpies or Desert Wraiths.

Internet connection still hasn't shown signs of gaining stability, so I haven't been able to upload any of the changes I made thus far. Still, I have made it to Hades Satyrs today.

I have no idea for how long will this issue persist. However, know this. In the next update to this topic (however long it takes), you will be able to see all the tables for every enemy.

However, that does not mean the bestiary will be complete. I need to re-test some things that caught my attention first. Just to be thorough. Also, there's the matter of coming up with names for attacks. I hope people can help me with that one.

Here we go. All the tables should be up now. The damage data is all there, but as I said, I want to re-test some stuff again.

Let me know about how it looks. Any suggestions are not only welcome, but encouraged. Since the document can be edited, feel free to change any attack names to whatever you see fit. You can even notice that an attack is named '???' (Pandora's Guardian), since I couldn't really think of anything.

EDIT: Upon opening the document again, it seems that the images are not loading for me. Let me know if you experience this. If so, I'll reupload them again. It should be done pretty quickly, since what takes the most time (setting up the tables and the data) is already taken care of. But I will do so tomorrow. Until then.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that a friend of mine checked the link via a phone, and it seems the tables are weird. On a PC (or mine, at least), everything seems good (save for the images not loading).

I have... bad news. Sorry to disappoint, but it looks like I've reached the point of exhaustion from this re-testing. Using your whole moveset against every single enemy attack (to see what can interrupt which attack) would take quite a long time.

That said, in its place, I have done other things, such as specifying the damage potential of most attacks where I just said that they can 'hit a lot/multiple times'. I have also corrected some things, like Desert Wraith's Burrow damage, as well as LPG's Fire Breath damage.

As for the images, they could magically be seen again, without doing anything to 'fix' the 'issue'.

Well, that's that. I don't think I'll be testing other things for now, unless you notice something strange about some stuff.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with this. Your assistance is appreciated.

Decided to add a little explanation at the beginning of the document. It's not important at all for those who are already familiar with the modifiers. It's obviously meant for people who don't know about said modifiers.

So Zesty uploaded a 5-hour long combat guide for the original God of War trilogy a couple of months that goes over a lot of things. I know that Xristos and GMG taught a massive amount of what Zesty knows now, so can I safely assume that it's at least somewhere to start?

As far as general mechanics go it basically has everything. For specific stuff (like which strat to use for a certain encounter under certain conditions) you'll have to either watch Xristos' runs or just ask GMG.

Just noticed that, of all people, UnderTheMayo commented on it noting he also wanted to make a guide about GoW. We dodged a bullet there folks.

Zesty was the guy who was a, to quote GMG, "dirty casual" at first right? That then saw the light?

>CasulTheMayo making a video about GoW combat mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JOsUhrrxeg&ab_channel=T0NYPERK1S

>dirty casual
Worse, a

Spoiler:

Then Zim showed him the light.

>new guide
I'll get to it in time.  Working through multi-hour long streams takes time (as they keep piling up).  Non-GoW things give me more of a chance to make head-way (in tandem with repeat runs requiring less thorough evaluation).

>taught Zesty much
A fair bit, yes.  Instructed Zim, and he evangelized the lad.

>go to sources for more specific cases
Sensible enough.  It is a 'general' thing, of course.  It isn't practical to try covering all things all at once.  Already 5h+ as is.

>MayoEgg
Still haven't gotten around to the boy.

>style player
Much of the 'cuhrayzee' sickness has been worked out at this juncture.

>somewhere to start
Yeah. Basically agree with everything Malcar said.

>Raeng
I think Zesty tried to post in this forum, but didn't know how it worked. Isn't there some user going by 'ZestyTaf'? If so, that's him.

>saw the light
And did much more than that as well. I would have never thought that someone who was once a Style player would embrace efficiency based playstyles, let alone being able to best the Clone War (twice).

>working through multi-hour streams takes time
So I guess the fact that I haven't been uploading anything related to GoW frees you up (especially for titles I haven't yet touched, or done specialty runs).

Note: At Zim's request, I did some quick testing for values, so you might be interested in it. Check the comment section in my most recent vid.

>didn't know how it worked
I'm not under the impression Mustafa has a lot of practice with forums in general.

>not focusing on GoW frees me up
That's how it goes. Less piling on the backlog. Streams takes especially long with the commentary and chat in tandem with the comments and video itself (including failures). Less so as we get to reduxes.

>quick testing
Got it open in another tab (gave a quick glance, but a proper reply will have to wait). Just about out of time, however.

>Mustafa
I'm still not used to see him being called that, so I sometimes confuse him with El Deeb.

>streams take a long time
Indeed. However, I noticed that he has been focusing on REmake 4, and recently nuGoW2's NG+. Think he was doing the proper NGR+ in GoWIII, however. Hopefully no mistakes were made this time.

>confuse him for Deeb when the actual name comes up
That'll happen. I wasn't aware you had knowledge of that user.

>things other than GoW
As with DMC3, yes. Buys me time to catch up.

>DQs with NGR+ NUR+ in GoWIII
Third time's the charm, so it is said.

>had knowledge of Deeb
Didn't we talk about him a few times? Think you were the one who told me not to confuse Zesty with Deeb, when I didn't know who the former was. Pretty sure it was in a YT comment though, but there's so many vids to look around for, and I'm almost running out of time (need to get back to SBK after this).

>DMC3
Noticed he uploaded a Vergil 3 NUR attempt. Haven't watched it, since much of what's going on in the fight would be lost on me (even when I saw my cousin fight him over and over).

Note: Guess the fact that he hasn't been exposed to the memes helped. I've been observing his playstyle without interfering too much, just to see what he does on his own accord. He rarely uses Plume for direct damage.

>third time's the charm
The funny thing is that I didn't know about his second DQ when I posted that reply. At least until a few minutes later.

>didn't we
You've got a higher opinion of my memory than you probably should.

>haven't watched it
Nor I.  I'm behind on a lot of GoW proper stuff, so there is no way I'm putting that ahead in cue.

NOTE: He also did some degree of a playthrough stream for it.

>DQs
Let's just hope he isn't battin' for a strike out here (we ain't need no triples).

>higher opinion
Fair enough. But just know I could be mistaken.

> behind on a lot of stuff
Just counting Zesty, or also Zim's vids (which I also need to catch up to)?

>playthrough stream
I noticed. Caught a very small glimpse of P2. Think Malcar was present on the chat, if I'm not mistaken.

>third strike
What else could realistically go wrong at this point?

>could be mistaken
I doubt you've damaged your recollection as I have my own.

>just counting
No, I still have yourself, Drifter, Yatta and others to check on (though some are without videos for their reports).

>Malcar
I've forgotten the name.

>what else could go wrong
Forgetting he was repeatedly told to be careful about false OS? Or Agony/Lament hooking someone? I think the third time will prove the charm.

>Think Malcar was present on the chat
You're thinking right. Fun streams overall, even though I'm always expecting a ragequit after a while. Gigapede took a lot out of Zesty, but the man came out on top in the end.

>forgotten the name
You can't forget about me senpai.
Jokes aside, e a different name plus on YT I usprofile pic, so that might be a factor.

>Gigapede bodied
Kek.

>can't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muu7FxdCG4U&t=34s

>e a different name plus on YT I usprofile pic
I was either not thinking straight or it's a forum bug.

>Watch me now
Sadness.

>either or
Either way, the odds of me remembering someone properly are very low (much less particulars).  It don't get better with time, friend.  Even people I once spent enormous spans alongside are lost as dust in the wind for most details.  Easier when I know someone in real life, of course.

>sadness

GMG:
>damaged my recollection
You'd be surprised.

>me
I think you commented on everything I have uploaded about GoW.

>Drifter
Wait, Drifter is uploading GoW-related content?

>Yatta
Sounds familiar...

>repeatedly
You mean he's still doing this?

On that note, I haven't seen anything related to him resuming the run.

And on a different note, Wulf just got a new World Record for CotG (PS3 emu category). Of course, YT didn't Notify me about this. Wulf himself had to tell me about it.

>lost as dust
So, for example... Waffles doesn't ring any bells?

Malcar:
>fun streams
I recall as much. Too bad I can't join for the entirety (or even halfway through) of the stream anymore.

>came out on top
Good to know this went well.

Is there any strategy to use when sandwiched on ropes?

Aside, that I enjoy how little invisible walls there are in the game. I've manage to get minotaur on the little bridge with the lever in Atlas puzzle room by using air grabs. That level of unintended strategy is really cool in games, even if throwing enemy on the elevation doesn't seem all that usefull comapared to just throwing him out of level.

Wright: >surprised
You taking notes for these types of things in addition to GoW?  That it?

>everything
Not quite.  A few Clone War things remain.

>GoW stuff
Only just started recently with GoWII VH PAIN+ (few small parts in).

>familiar
Yet acts nothing like the other.

>still doing this
He'll internalize the dangers in time.

>new record
So I saw (when putting it into cue with the previous go that I haven't evaluated yet).

>didn't notify you
I was (just not about a bunch of comments on my videos *and probably elsewhere*).

>Waffles
I've not forgotten the nickname for the dork playing troll with a lazy gimmick (casual trophy hunter).

Paulie: >strat
Depends on specifics. We talking a vanilla run (upgrades, extensions, etc.)? If so, what are they? What setting (presumably VH)? Probably not a meme or a challenge run, but still good to know.

>sandwiched
Pincer got you in a bind, eh? It is easy to think it is entirely up to RNGesus when on the "NOPE ROPE" (Challenge of Atlas on the way to Shield of Hades). Not entirely true. If it is the details you want, I'm the devil within.

>My settings
I'm currently only on Vanila Spartan. During the moment I've made my post I had max health extension, magic almost fully extended, blades lvl 3 (or 4, can't remember exactly), PR lvl 2, Zf lvl 2 and rest unupgraded. After Spartan, I'll do God and eventually attempt challenge runs.

>Nope Rope
That's when the question occured to me, but when I asked I was thinking about ropes in general. Are the strats for ropes universal for all of them or are they specific for different ropes? I'm curious to know the details about ropes in general and  about one before shield of Hades.

> noperope
It's been a while, but there are different strats per rope. With some you can 'backtrack' to the start and dismount the rope and get free kills on the climbers coming your way. Once you're sandwiched in I've found it's best to use the kick-attack over the grab, and go back and forth between behind and front for attack.

I'm sure BigVee will be able to go more into detail, as noted, it's been a while.

Paulie: >Spartan
Dub names, then. They change without meaning between titles. I advise just calling them what they are (E/N/H/VH). In this case, vanilla H (glorified N). Stats work a bit differently in GoW1 than in the rest (GoWII setting the standard going forward *for better and for worse*). GoW1 is quite generous with orbs and they're worth plenty, so that's nice for you. Lots of things will work to your advantage, but they can be gone over when the time comes.

>MAX HP
200 units, then.

>nearly MAX MP
175, it is.

>lvl3-4 BoC
Either 2.0 or 3.0 modifier. I forget the moves unlocked, but either way you should have parry counters, which is nice. Maybe the evade attack option, which is cute. Perhaps fully functional R1 string, which can be quite good to work (another quick path option to enders, but more mobile and not needing a parry *can't exactly do that against an unblockable, can we*).

>PR lvl2
Mashing will help make it more potent and cover a larger area. Infinite vertical reach has value along with the i-frames.

>lvl2 Zf
Probably a waste for you. Wouldn't recommend.

>lvl1 Arty
For the best.

>lvl1 MG
It is very good, but asking too much of a beginner outside very specific cases (more meant to get orbs from its service). Just not as brain dead and broken as two of the spells are (which combo well).

>VH after this
Before that, there is a 'challenge' mode in Extras that will unlock (set to N). Beat that, then work on VH. Probably a better call (in terms of the order of operations).

>ropes in general
Generally, you are not facing foes that matter. Undead and Cursed variants are jobbers whom you can shown zero respect freely in most runs. Just use speed strats (kick them in the face *phantom range so it hits a bit further ahead than it should* moving in just close enough to grab *kills them for orb drops*). All you need to do is kick and throw while moving ahead. Don't even pay mind to the dudes behind you. No point caring as your i-frames defeat their options and the guys ahead can't ignore yours. It isn't even necessary to get fancy with advanced tactics.

'Nope Rope' is so-called for being the one with Fallen (Legionnaires). They don't behave as they should. Their grab has hyper armor that will ignore your light and heavy options. Thus, they no-sell strikes meant to control them if allowed within range of grabbing you. In NGR+ (not allowed to reverse), that means you lost (have to die). They cannot be permitted to get close enough or you're rolling the dice on RNG. Even in lesser runs, leaving it to chance can be bad as upon being grabbed, sure you'll easily escape (killing it), but if you were surrounded (one part forces that *more if handled poorly*) it is entirely the choice of the AI how things will go (for a ND type of fella, that sucks *Zim hates it*).

Why is that? When you come out of the grab, you have nowhere to drop for safety (unlike the first rope). We can't side-jump off it to some alternative path. You can't drop and get back to the rope without certain options higher runs take away (if you're in vanilla runs, you can potentially do such fancy things, which is nice *as one example: drop, cast your PR very soon after doing so, air light immediately and double jump back to safety*). If the AI opts to grab again, whatever. If BOTH pick grab, even better (one will whiff and die via RO). If either tries to slash? You take the hit. That's how the set-up goes. Well, maybe you can kick in-time to stuff one while 'evading' the other, but good luck with that. One of the charming things about the FL (versus the UL and CL from other ropes)? Their slash ignores our grab i-frames (they will break you out of throw attempts). If they weren't tweaked as they are, the section wouldn't be such a bother.

For my NGR+ NUR+ redux, I opted to play dirty shy of what the other kids like (using a long jump sequence break or foreground pillar platforming *not intended either way* to skip it). What does that translate to? If you backtrack sufficiently, you can force new checkpoints to keep progress. Already pretty helpful. Remember what I said about shitboxes used to our advantage? Combining that with kicking from one side to the other (alternating) can just barely keep them at bay during times you're surrounded (pincer) without rolling the dice on timed kick evades or whether they will just grab you or not. You can't do speedrun strats at certain points (and it isn't good enough to just move ahead to bait spawns and retreat *dps won't be high enough in serious runs to blow all this off*), which is how it became notable (versus just another walk in the park). Again, each time things were going well, I'd fully retreat up the vertical rope, hop off, run to the shield doors and backtrack fully (sliding down the rope and triggering the checkpoint by the offending section). With that, I need not fret over their choice not to have a save point beyond the bars or the one time triggers otherwise used here.

NOTE: The only other fancy tidbit there is dropping when near the end of a rope (with opps in the way) to just barely catch the ledge, pull up and mash jumping ahead (as it will try to drop you with their bodies pushing against your position). This to avoid an issue at the finish (and not needing sequence breaking stuff just to avoid bull at the finale *not the best climax being slapped around or even killed like that*).

Ranger: >different strats
Depends on the run, but most of the time in most ropes, the one strat pretty well covers it. 'Nope Rope' throws a wrench into that generally true statement.

>backtrack to dismount
Just backtracking (perhaps after clearing the way behind you) is nice in general (should it not be possible to forge ahead for some reason *maybe you're just going for a 'greed' set-up that values EXP, so you want to get hit count or petrify things without fancy and risky stuff*).

>use the kick
If either is an FJ and that FJ is close enough to land their throw, you could easily find yourself in a situation with likely unavoidable damage for higher runs. The strat works, but you need to make sure they don't 'get in' or you should start praying (or just restart). Of course, in a more casual go, you can afford some hits, so it isn't a huge deal. It stops being funny when you lose (lots of) time over it (and cannot pass without truly getting good *at being dirty with your amazing wind shockwaves invisibly fired from your sandals*).

>over the grab
Only true with FJ. If you're not just forging ahead in the other bits, you're making it worse for yourself needlessly. Of course, the last rope has archers in the background, so kill them first (else you would probably need RotG to tank their shots *even then it is a terrible idea*).

I reloaded my hard mode save and went back to the nope rope to apply things that GMG and Royta wrote, but I found this section is more complicated than it's first appeared to me.

Firstly, the order in which enemies spawn appears to be fixed (more on that later), but it can be manipulated through careful navigation (backtracking) on the rope.

Legionnaires roughly appear in order: R, L, R, L, 3R, L, 2R, L, 3R

But it can look like: R, L, R, L, 2L, 2R, L, 2R, L, 3R, depending on how the Legionnaire on clif during mid point jumps on the rope. It can be easily avioded by walking back to the left. Another thing to note that - from my experience -he will always face left on the rope, so it's likely dev's intended sequnce is the 2nd.

Also when returing and dismoutning at the starting point Legionnaires can't dismount the rope making them easy target.

Few things break the order, it's possible to spawn certain Legionnaires individually by triggering certain spawnpoints on the rope and the order in which they spawn prioritizes right side, which makes this very abusable with backtracking to the beginning and dismounting strategy.

Some things that I've noticed about this section besides what was already written in thread on the subject.

For reference, I'm playing ps3 port, so I don't know how this affects things.

I'll have to spent some more time on it on VH.

GMG:
> Hard instead of Spartan etc.
Bit ironic coming form user with God Mode in his name lol, but - yeah, It's definitely more convenient. I'll adopt it.

>NGR+
I'm not familiar with its rules (or the acronym for that matter).

>Cotg before VH
will do.

> GodModeGod
He also likes to be reminded that the abreviation of his nickname, GMG, is also the abreviation of the highest difficulty setting in NuGoW (Give Me GodofWar(GMG)).