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Royta/Raeng
Gabriel Phelan Lucas
Birdman
7 posters

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1General Discussion Empty General Discussion Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:27 pm

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

Automata has a chapter select but your lvl is same so u r way overlvl n can not actually take enough damage to die against low lvl mobs n bosses(Adam desert boss does like 4damage) n deal 1hit kills with even regular pod fire which is your weakest attack. So no replay value, even tho they give u a debug mode u can use to dick around which is cool, but they've clearly took out most of the debug tools to use including a lvl slider.

Paid dlc has an apple(lowers your lvl by 10 each use, u get 10) locked behind its obscene final special coast arena, u fight a boss rush against reskinned mobs n bosses that r only things in game that r lvl130-40(your lvlcap is 99) who can insta kill u even on easy, n have stupid amounts of life to kill, so u have to use best chips n weapons to even deal damage(critical chips) turning it into a dps race.

when I found out about this I just dropped the game since I wanted to replay with my side quests intact, I replayed a bit until I realised how much grinding I would have to do for a single arena challenge to even beat it, more so is how I avoided all the quests so they where not missing post game since they can't be redone for some reason.

If u avoid all quests u won't be adequate lvl for main game, its short too, so u can run from the desert to Forrest to coast n be way under lvl by the Forrest parts, mobs don't even budge or take much damage at all if u only a few lvls below them

Also mob types r based on routes(A,B,C/D) not difficulty, so even if u replay it's got less mob types the earlier u start.

Let's just acknowledge that replay value is a core tenant of platinums philosophy, so they betrayed that with automata, think about that.jesus.

I'm well over automata. I deleted it from my PS4 n am going to sell it when I can, I got so pissed n sad I needed something to play that was legit good action game, so I fell in love with god hand again n binged mikekobs god hand lp, then I found this site n the rest is history :).

First half of vid discusses issues as a game, rest is gushing about mah story, vash is cool dood otherwise I'm glad he sees it's faults, a must avoid game for action fans.



Last edited by Royta/Raeng on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited Topic Title)

2General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:25 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I probably won't get into Automata due to it being too grindy.

In terms of mechanics it's actually pretty good. Too bad.



3General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:39 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

Yeh it has dmc style custom combos u can do some real cool stuff, but u can only really test them in debug room since u can spawn all mobs at whatever lvl u want plus debug tools to make them n yourself invincible.

Think about how it's only actually serviceable as a game due to said issues. A serviceable PLATINUM GAME, not them of all developers, they can't keep making ok games.

Yeh if u want a proper action game don't get it, it's rotten to its core for the sake of being called an rpg.

Platinum even said they up to do another taro game, which means another serviceable game as a game. That's not the platinum standard, maybe lately but didnt used to be.

They do have another game to come so it's not all lost, they did need strong sale so automata has done that, it's easy to see why it sold so well too, anime n thick thighs for 2b n a2, dem Kids love dat thiccness.

Team ninja I hope can make a proper action game again also, they haven't done much since doa n ninja gaiden razors edge. Platinum r the only guys consistently making pure action games to a quality standard, only guys driving the genre.

Indie teams r making them but they don't have the resources n skill required to make it to platinums standard.

4General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:01 pm

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

I never felt hard mode is unbalanced in action games since it's usually what I play them on, the mode above normal typically. I don't play hard god hand since normal has lvl3 which I consider hard n lvldie which is very hard/gene must die.

Automata wasn't hard it was more tedious due to poor design choices for sake of role playing in an otherwise standard platinum action game that follows bayo template except designed for casuals n rpg fans than action game fans. Mechanics can only really be used to the fullest in debug room since u can set enemy lvl n use debug tools to set ai commands.

5General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:34 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I wouldn't mind a fully upgraded very hard mode. You'd be super strong but it would be fair as ANYTHING will kill you.

Not sure if you can NG+ to VH though.

6General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:58 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

U can't ng+ unless u have apple to lower your lvl, otherwise u r same lvl u finished game at.

U get chapter select after getting either end C or D, mobs don't scale so u would be way over lvl for most of game, I beat game at lvl62, no mob in routeA can really hurt u, they die in 1 hit or so from even basic pod fire. That's the issue, u can only lower lvl if u have apple for beating final coast arena challenge otherwise u r op as u can kill in 1 hit no matter gear it's useless since your damage is so high u don't need anything else other than your current lvl which would be far beyond A/B mobs n bosses.

7General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:04 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I dont want to lower my level. I wanted to know if it were possible to NG+ into VH with everything I've obtained. It would actually be fun because I'd be able to deal high damage but they would still be able to kill me instantly.

8General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:09 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

Ok, u can switch difficultly on the fly.

Chapter select u get after getting ends C or D. So that's your ng+.

U keep all your stuff unless u delete your saves for end E.

Mobs don't scale, only flight shmup section mobs as well as animals scale to your lvl.

I suppose u would be making your own dmc heaven or hell mode haha.

9General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:50 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I don't do Twitter. Anyone want to confirm this?

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691087-playstation-4/75667240

10General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:10 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

Automata has been selling exceedingly well, so yes. It's sold 1.5 mil and counting, great since PG can live on to potentially make great games again, that's why they do licenced games to pay the bills, good for taro also but shame it had to be automata and not one of their best games. Bayo has sold 170K on steam so that's a plus.

Even square was taken aback from the sales. Anime with tons of fan service tends to sell well, for the kids.

11General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:32 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I have twitter and yeah he said that a few hours back. Pretty scary. That said if it sold 1.5 million that means it already outsold Vanquish's entire lifespan which is pretty sad and shows just how well RPG-action combination games sell. I wonder what that means for Platinum's future.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

12General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:06 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

It's good that they're making money and I'd assume they'll use this success to make another game. I hope so anyway.

There's a lot of good things in Nier A. The mixture of HnS and bullet hell is great, and the movement is so fluid and beautiful. The last game I played with such smooth controls was Okami.

I'm really considering VH mode but it would still require massive grinding, and with OHKs on everything would not be a fun time. I like everything about the game outside of leveling up and gear crap. Same reason I quit Nioh (though I'm still waiting to see how the final DLC turns out).



13General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:16 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It always does seem to hold it back, grinding is never fun in these types of situations. How is the 'walking' in Nier? Because that is holding me back most from getting it. Just walking from A to B through a desert.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

14General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:15 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

What do you mean? Forced walking or are you asking about traversal in general?

I can't speak for the whole game, but you can run pretty fast, ride animals or use fast travel once unlocked. There was a ton of running back and forth at the point I was up to, over a pretty barren world, especially if you're doing sidequests.

One thing you need to have if you're going with open world, in my opinion, is fun traversal. Overall, Infamous Second Son sucked. The same thing zone after zone and combat was basically average TPS, but travelling was actually really fun. That might be worth a topic. Traversal in open world games.



Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total

15General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:02 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I can't speak for the whole game, but you can run pretty fast, ride animals or use fast travel once unlocked. There was a ton of running back and forth at the point I was up to, over a pretty barren world, especially if you're doing sidequests.
That's all I needed to hear. I don't mind traversal if it's fun as you noted, games like Witcher, Batman and Infamous 1 (only one I played) did it brilliantly. But this sounds like a no-go for me.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

16General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:14 pm

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

I've beaten automata a while ago so ask me about it, I made a 1st comment above which explains some issues. Really if you want a solid action game with some replay value then no don't touch it. It would rather be a mediocre action game for the sake of the role playing, anyway thanks for 2b booty for saving platinum I guess. Platinum said they up for another taro game but as much as a love them both I'd rather them not due to how broken automata is(taro doesn't understand action games despite only ever directing action games).

17General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:56 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

But this sounds like a no-go for me.

Yeah it's pretty standard. You'll definitely use fast travel at every turn. Would have been cool if the mech suits were usable for travel but that would cause issues since they can fly.

(taro doesn't understand action games despite only ever directing action games).

None of his games were great combat-wise.

18General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:44 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

Cavia where not known for great games as games, but they tried making many genres(even an early cover shooter called operation winback) of varying quality which I respect and for what it's worth I have more respect for drakengard1-2 and niers gameplay than automata more so due to platinums games repertoire. PG can do so much better, taro is a bad influence if anything. Drakengard 3 even has needless leveling up when it's a linear chapter based action game(he must think anything with a level bar is an action rpg)

19General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:38 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Just heard rumor of a Nier 3. Can't be bothered following it up. Hope Platinum isn't involved but they probably will be. No interest in another grind fest action RPG.



Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total

20General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:42 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Considering the title 'saved Platinum games' I do consider this to be a predictable move. They'll need money to stay afloat to make other more risky games.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

21General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:57 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

Square, platinum and taro have made it clear they are all interested in a sequel. I'm against this speaking as a fan of taro and PG, Nier never should have had a sequel in the first place, considering Nier itself is a canon sequel to drakengard 1 ending E but was it's own complete game and story(if you read Grimoire Nier that is for the full story), Automata is just unneeded. Automata actually only exists because the producer(Yosuke Saito) threatened to quit if he had to make another dragon quest game without producing something else.

But as much as a dislike the game as a game and story I'm glad PG have survived because of it, and I hope they can continue to make their own titles again eventually. I think they have an unannounced project still to reveal.

22General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:01 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Do you think this success could cause them to abandon 'risky' games altogether?

23General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:21 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank

I hope not, we'll have to see what they make in the coming years to tell, but they do licensed titles to pay the bills so they can make their own games, they have noted they are still hired guns so that's not changed. Kamiya is still there and so is the rest so I'd hope they wouldn't stop being PG, but I'd not be surprised sadly. They haven't made anything great since transformers and that's a tiny baby budget licence title heavily based in bayo's combat and even reuses animations. I'd like to think this success has given them some greatly needed funds, attention and confidence.

24General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:18 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Platinum Games has a bit of the Nintendo mentality, in that they do a bit of 'sell out' in which they make mainstream stuff (MGR:R, Nier, Transformers, Korra etc) so that they can allow projects that will probably not make a huge profit (Bayo2, Star Fox Zero etc).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

25General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:15 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

That said I have to admit they do feel a bit...safe. Witch Time was cute the first time, but it is starting to feel a bit phoned in. Would love to see them reinvent the wheel again, really offer something unique like GH, VJ and Okami.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

26General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:39 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Witch time dodging probably needs a change. But how? TF did change it up a little with focus, like having more ways to trigger it outside of dodging.


27General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:42 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Honestly I'd say just remove it, completely. And try a new mechanic or a new type of combat. At their core Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Nier, Nioh, God of War etc and more are pretty similar until you dive deep. But games like God Hand and Viewtiful Joe were really different. Like, by god, they are unique. I'm longing for that level of innovation again if you know what I mean.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

28General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:01 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I can't think of many action games that have hit levels like GH and VJ. It's all either slomo or just getting out of the way.

Some like MGR, attack and dodge at the same time. Okami actually has that too though it's what I guess you could call a passive effect, where after obtaining the upgrade, every time you dodge any enemy you touch while doing so will take damage.

Have you heard of Kengo Zero? That has some interesting defensive techniques. I'll do a write up of it later and make a topic.



29General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:47 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I've decided I will get Automata soon though I'm held back by the fear that they'll just release a complete edition. There isn't a huge amount of DLC but it has gone through some patches and I would rather have it all on one disc.



Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total

30General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:35 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I was thinking of making a combo/mechanics videos topic. There's some top content on Youtube but I don't think anyone here will be interested.

31General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:24 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

By all means, do so. I'd love to see some stuff. I played the demo a ton but I remember seeing some cool weapon switch combos out there.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

32General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:26 pm

Dark_Blood_NG


C-Rank

I don't think anyone here will be interested
Right now there is not much people here. You should still post stuff, for posterity :)
I guess new people will come here and find a lot of stuff, and they may be interested in this or that.

33General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:58 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Good point. I'll get to it soon.

34General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:48 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Playing this a little right now. Listened to the Cane & Rinse podcast and it put the game on my mind. Will see how it goes.

Never fully finished it because of the heavy RPG elements but damn it has the smoothest, most fluid movement I've ever experienced.

35General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Sat May 01, 2021 7:58 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

This game has some of the most baffling decisions in an action game I have ever seen.

You trip on everything, rocks, bushes, slight slopes. When you trip you lose all momentum meaning if you were expecting the run heavy sword move to come out, you won't get it.
This hasn't gotten me hit, a lot.

This game really rewards spamming dodge, which is surprising for a platinum game. Because they came up with the whole three dodge recovery as far as I know. You can really just spam RT and most things won't be able to hit you.
For the humanoid bosses like adam you will get a launcher into full combo from the perfect dodge, because the perfect dodge is extremely generous and easy to pull off.

The RPG stuff means you never really know if an enemy will be launch able or not. Imagine if NG had levels and sometimes you just couldn't Izuna a ninja because they were to high level. That's automata.

Also the gun is so over powered. Even on hard. Nier 1 had a magic meter which kept you from spamming gun. But here you can just shoot everything. A little DMC2ish.

I really like the controls, movement and combat aside from all of that though.

36General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Sun May 02, 2021 2:48 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

>You trip on everything.
Taro trolling.
If only the machines knew all they had to do was litter every free space with rocks and bushes to defeat super powered androids who have no issue defeating factory sized robots.

>Because they came up with the whole three dodge recovery as far as I know.
That Berserk game on PS2 had it.

>unreliable launch
I didn't bother most of the time. I just focused on efficiently wiping them out. I really liked the heavy sword throw.

Chaos Legion has something similar where a counter hit won't knock back certain enemies if your attack stat isn't high enough but that did lead me to create fun ways to counter without trading hits in the early game.

I need to finish this game.

37General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Sun May 02, 2021 6:44 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>I really liked the heavy sword throw.

Yes. Heavy sword throw while holding the gun button will kill everything very safely. But it's gets a little boring.

38General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Tue May 04, 2021 3:48 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I use it in combination with other things.

I like chip set ups too. This is cool.

39General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Tue May 04, 2021 4:45 am

GodModeGOD

GodModeGOD
B-Rank

>gun gods
And very boring by the looks of it.

>ez avoidance
Save for minding trip hazards. Environmental concerns are more vexing than foes. Noted.

>launch limits
Before there was Nu-GoW...Perhaps that is what inspired Jason.

>Chaos Legion had it too
That right?

>that Berserk game
Which one on PS2? Wasn't there two? I think I know the one (just the same). Didn't realize it had such a thing. Hard to find competent play of it.

Quite a lot I would have liked to have seen from the game. Enviro wasn't as much of a factor as I would have liked. Friendly Fire, too. No real factions. 'Bloodstain' alternative was cute, but could have used more work. More chips (of substance). Grabbing was lackluster. Playing as the different units repeatedly with almost no changes existing between them isn't super appealing.

Each character should have been more unique (especially after enduring their playthrough to get their full selves *2B should graduate away from the tutorial basic bitch to her assassin self as 2E if only as a post-game reward with missions suited to it, 9S should have taken emphasis off direct melee let alone using the same shit she could as she did while being more capable with guns, used the gunship more, hacked more effectively, eventually learned magic for Pod, etc. and A2 needed her berserk to be more practical as a super state while having more combat oriented depth added to the basic kit of our starter*).

40General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Tue May 04, 2021 5:24 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

>Chaos Legion had it too
For counter hits stopping enemies in their tracks, yes. CL is a much smaller game with much lower stat ceiling so it's only a thing very early and only on one enemy.

>Which Berserk?
There's only one on PS2. Pretty sure of that. The other is on Dreamcast.

41General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Mon May 10, 2021 4:34 pm

zaa / Aaro

zaa / Aaro
D-Rank

The movement and combat in this reminds me of Shinobi PS2 somehow. Once you realize how simple/straightforward it is attack mechanics are super straightforward, but the movement feels very good and you can always be on the move jumping from enemy to enemy.
As such I did some speedruns of the game back in the day and thought the game actually is super fun in that format. Somehow the most fun of any game I played like that (good movement & length, few boring spots, decent movement skips, decent balance of challenge etc.). The game working out like that is probably largely coincidental but pretty interesting.
The combat system in MGR was also pretty janky but fun so that's about what I was expecting when this game came out. Was always confused how many people expected the game to be a new DMC or something despite all the factors against that. Not that there's a lack of mechanics in this game once everything is unlocked but it's kind of quantity over quality.

I thought by far the best part of the game in a gameplay sense are the final combat arenas in the DLC area. The big one is basically a Bloody Palace level that actually demands a lot from the player and expects them to be high leveled and know all techniques in the game. This is kinda similar to VR missions in Metal Gear Rising (and probably Astral Chain?). Guessing the combat director behind these 3 games likes that kind of thing and I can appreciate it. Both MGR and this game work out better when the difficult VR missions start demanding mastery from the player, matching the seemingly broken combat systems with equally difficult enemy waves for actually exciting fights.
I literally never see anyone talk about that bloody palace level / vr missions equivalent though. Which is weird for me as it's the main thing that will stick in my mind as something to come back to. Has anyone here played through them?

In general the DLC fixed the main problem of not having good combat stuff to do once the player has beaten the game / leveled up. Upon beating the bloody palace equivalent you get the ability to drop your level down so you can replay main game portions at the correct level or start a NG+ run from level 1 with all abilities. I never got around to messing with that but it's a nice addition (should've been in the base game though).

Mostly my impressions of the game back in 2017, though I did revisit it last year.

Some old video recordings related to what I was talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/zaarock

42General Discussion Empty Re: General Discussion Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:33 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Started this for the third time and will definitely finish it.

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