Chatting about games

There's been a fair amount of great games for me on PS4.

But it is telling when half the time I walk out of a game store with a remaster/remake.

I jump around a lot these days as well. Now it's the One Piece games I'm looking into. Unlimited World Red coming up next and looks like I should've bought that instead of World Seeker.

>dishonored 2

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it’s bad, it just didn’t click with me at all. The level design was still good but a lot of things about the whole thing just felt off to me.

>hopping around until something holds your interest

I’ve kind of been doing that too. What was the last game to hold your interest to the end?

>MGS5

As someone who’s played MGS2 and 3 to the point of insanity, I have a lot of issues with the gameplay, both big and small, that an overwhelming majority of people don’t notice because 5 has smoother controls and they think that makes it a better game.

General issues compared to past games:

-No difficulty selection. Absolutely inexcusable
-No alert/evasion/caution system, opted for a more generic “one enemy spotted you so now the entire world knows where you are” style
-The open world is terrible. It would be one thing if the missions/bases were unique with solid design/corridors/enemy placement, but a lot of them are copy/paste jobs that encourage sniping on a hill
-Worst boss fights in the series aside from PW, the beauty of past boss fights is that they were deep action bosses at their core that also had you utilizing a different play style than you do while sneaking around, but these bosses are as bland as can be
-Fultoning the guards is annoying, although it does have some cool stuff surrounding it(like guards shouting for help if they’re awake and other enemies being able to shoot the balloons down)
-Mother base is completely half-assed and feels pointless
-The story lacks any fun moments or set pieces

In terms of smaller details, there’s a lot of things that bother me, like:

-The removal of systems from MGS3. I know a lot of people didn’t like going into the menus in that game but those systems allowed for some amazing and unique mechanics. Throwing certain animals at enemies to kill or distract them, blowing up provision sheds to make guards hungry, etc are all gone.
-Camos no longer have unique properties like in 3
-The game has tons of repeat weapons and gadgets but removed unique, utility based tools from past games such as coolant, cig gas spray, masks, etc.
-The guards with body armor are cancer and completely go against encounter design in the series
-Some tried and true tactics from past games don’t work anymore for some reason. A very popular strat in MGS2 is body tranq while running into roll for instant KO(since getting an enemy on the ground once they’ve been tranq’d will put them to sleep) but this doesn’t work anymore for some bizarre reason
-The roll, which was absolutely AMAZING in MGS3, was replaced with the slide which isn’t nearly as good(far worse hit box, doesn’t allow for easy traversal on uneven terrain, etc).
-Missing details in general. Guards no longer hear whiffed melees, can no longer shoot radios with any weapon, shooting both legs of an enemy no longer causes them to fall over and bleed out, running through a smoke grenade no longer hinders your ability to aim, etc.
-Almost no environmental interaction. Remember shooting the fire extinguishers in MGS2 to stun guards, or cutting the ropes on the bridge in MGS3 to make enemies slide off the edges?

It’s ironic that a big, open world game that’s way longer than any other entry in the series seems to have had the most corners cut and actually gets boring far more quickly than the others(I’ve never got bored of the other games, I have to force myself to stop playing them every time I get back into them). When I see people say “lol mgs was trash until 5, so clunky” it just kills me because these comments are clearly made out of pure ignorance.

Wolfenstein 2. People really hate that game, but I completed it all in 3 days or so, and had a blast the whole way. I think most of the complaints about no run and gun were made on console, because I played on Do or Die (Hard), and with one or two exceptions, was mostly sprinting around the arena, constantly getting an angle on the big enemies while killing anyone in my path. If I was low on health/armour, then I'd get away, and just run through any rooms, frantically grabbing supplies. Not a fan of how you have to manually pick up everything, though. Definitely something that needs to be addressed. Kills the pace a lot more than necessary.

And if you're able to get consistent headshots, then even the big super-soldiers should pose minimal threat to you.

I'm gonna do a big stealth binge. Thief 1-3, and Dishonoured 2, with Dishonoured 2 being first on that list, and the one I'm playing currently.

@Infinity_Divide You're absolutely right about MGS5. It's still a good game and the only open world that I can tolerate but MGS2-3 and even MGS4 (except that segment in chapter 3) are always fun to play. They are deeper games but the casual audience didn't grasp a fragment of their options.

>Wolfenstein 2

Yeah I think the complaints were maybe overblown with this one, it’s better about giving you mobility and close-range options than most other modern FPS. I also played on Do or Die and didn’t think it was very hard except for the very end.

>Thief 1-3

Nice, never actually got into these that much. Let us know what you think.

@Redshot

Yeah MGS5 is still good overall it’s just hard not to notice its shortcomings after playing the others so much. And MGS4 is amazing IMO, poor pacing but acts 1 and 2 are absolute gold, fantastic scenarios and level design. The fight with Wolf in act 4 is also one of the best in the series I feel.

@Infinity_Divide I agree with everything on MGSV, though controlling snake feels so good.
That is the only thing it did well to me.
As far as fultoning and mother base goes, did you play Peace Walker? If so what did you think of it?

>Peace walker

Hated it. Guards were the dumbest they’ve ever been, couldn’t do basic stuff like crawl, repeat missions, worst bosses in the series by a mile, grinding, just a massive step down in every way after 3 and 4. Hayter’s performance was pretty bad too and the other characters just sucked(really, Huey? he couldn’t have done something more contrived if he tried). It’s the only main MGS I never played again after my initial playthroughs.

I did a dumb thing:

https://imgur.com/a/17de1bD

This list is really missing some essential games I think. I know the cuhrayzee community doesn’t like Souls but how are they not here? Also no RE4/Evil Within is a crime.

This version of the Action Game Tier List is better: https://tiermaker.com/create/just-action-games-00-72738

Granted, it's kind of overwhelming, but it's got Assault Spy, the Tales games, more KH games, both VJ's and LoS's, Spider-Man and Arkham as well as separating DmC and Definitive as well as NG3 and Razor's Edge (But no Sigma versions).

I feel like there should be a lot more games there if it is just action. Then again, whoever worked on it would be there all day. Thanks for the link! I always wanted to do a Tier list!

No problem. Me personally... I think I should play more of the games listed before I even touch this beast of a list.

Interesting.

Could be used for good or evil.

What's the combat like in Yakuza Kiwami?

Is it your first Yakuza game?

Basically they're 3d brawlers with light attacks, heavy attacks (combos as well), throws, blocking, dashing and lock-on (which is a bit awkward actually). The main features of the series are the heat actions, that's to say special contextual moves that you can activate if you have enough heat gauge. There are lots of them and depend on positioning and whether you are wielding objects (you can pick up things like bikes and use them as weapons). In Kiwami there are also 4 styles (the last one is locked tho), each with his own moveset.

However, bear in mind that these games are not focused on combat, it's not the main thing. Even the combat is fun and unique tho.

Kiwami is my least favorite entry in the series, but it's still a really good game imo.

I read the messages on this thread and the top tens are really interesting. I might do one as well, but it's not clear to me whether I should only pick up action games or not (because people chose The Evil Within and RE 4, which I wouldn't consider action). However, I'll just stick to a simple top 10 fave games, keep in mind that the order isn't super precise or anything.

1 - Dark Souls 3
2 - Metal Gear Rising
3 - Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
4 - Yakuza (saga, my fave is Kiwami 2)
5 - Dark Souls 2 (mainly nostalgia of the pvp)
6 - Bloodborne
7 - Devil May Cry from 3 onwards (DmC included, my fave is 5)
8 - Hollow Knight
9 - Final Fantasy VII
10 - Tales of Symphonia

Other games I considered are Dishonored, Dark Souls, Ys VIII and NieR Automata.

>Dark Souls 3
Fuck yeah. I love that game.

>Ys VIII
I just started playing that game. Not very hard so far, I'm playing on Inferno. Seems fairly fun though!

Inferno on a first run might be quite grindy. I personally played on Hard.

>Yakuza Kiwami
I'm familiar with them. I'm more asking because from what I've heard on here is they keep changing the game engine.

It's the same as Yakuza 0

Does money still fly out of enemies? Because I hated that.

Nope, because the upgrade system is different. Money and EXPs are two different things now.

>Not very hard so far, I'm playing on Inferno.

That shit gets insane quick. May god have mercy on your soul.

>money not flying out of their arses
Thank God.

So it has that style switching thing like 0.

It's pretty cheap here now but depends. Will look into cut content first.

hedfone wrote:>Not very hard so far, I'm playing on Inferno.

That shit gets insane quick. May god have mercy on your soul.

Any... Idea when? Like, 2 hours into the game or something?

@Omega ZX interesting that Kiwami 2 is your favorite, did you play the original?

I won't lie, combat is secondary to me in Yakuza. I judge more the complete package, with a particular eye for the story. 0 and 6 are really close contenders, that's to say. But 2 (which I never played in its original version, btw) has the edge mainly because of Ryuji Goda. Such an amazing character. The ending was so emotional.

I guess you are one of the people who were disappointed with the dragon engine, and I can see where the criticisms come from. However, I like the combat in K2/6 too, maybe it's a bit too floaty but it can be really satisfying. Judgment is better, but I don't like the gimmick of mortal attacks in that game.

Also, cabaret club.

>disappointed with the dragon engine

Yeah a little bit, it really felt like the normals got screwed and the grab spin was so viable compared to a huge majority of the moveset(at least in 6). 6 was enough to burn me out on the new engine, but I still want to try Judgement.

I read Kiwmai 1 has less minigame nonsense. Any truth to this? If so, Zero's combat system and less fluff is my kind of entry.

Read there's a fighting arena and Majima Everywhere sounds fun.

Yeah, less mini games and less interruptions in the main game in Kiwami. Majima Everywhere is amusing and yeah there’s an arena, quite a lot of fights in it IIRC.

I really don't see less minigames as a pro, but yeah Kiwami is smaller. Though Majima Everywhere (the main side activity) gets boring really fast.

I'm not the biggest fan of them.

>Majima Everywhere
How does it work? It's essentially multiple boss fights right?

Just started. Combat immediately feels great. Easy to run around, cancels.

But then got dropped into a soap opera and had to go buy some woman a ring.

I really like the archaic text and sound effects when confirming as well as save points.

Can't wait to get more into the combat. I love the throws and knockdown/knockback. Really allows me to move groups around to my advantage. Being able to throw weapons is great. You can even run into their bodies on the ground to move them.

Heat actions are kind of weird. Looks like there are tons of them depending on all kinds of things.

I've got a couple of questions.

I noticed that there are two variations for MGS2 and MGS3. I did some research, and apparently Substance/Subsistence are expansions of MGS2/MGS3 respectively. But I couldn't find those expansions in some stores.

The question is, am I missing out too much if I buy the original MGS2/MGS3?

Also, while I'm at it, which version of each Dark Souls is better?

Infinity_Divide wrote:I did a dumb thing:

https://imgur.com/a/17de1bD

This list is really missing some essential games I think. I know the cuhrayzee community doesn’t like Souls but how are they not here? Also no RE4/Evil Within is a crime.

Interesting list. I'm curious about some choices.

1) Is DMC4 really at Nier Automata level? I haven't tried it yet but I think it should deserve a better spot, even just for its complexity.
2) Nu GoW and GoW3 in the same category...well, it seems a bit strange to me. I prefer GoW1 and GoW2 over the third main chapter, but I think GoW3 is still better than Dad of War.
3) I really liked KH1FM so if the sequel is so much better then it could really become one of my favourite games.
4) I think you are right about Yakuza games and the Dragon Engine, I'm a huge fan of this saga. Even so I don't think Yakuza 0 is comparable to NGB. Y0 has good combat and a lot of content but it doesn't reach Itagaki's work.
5)About the SSS Tier, what good qualities do they have that NGB or NG2 are lacking of? I'm still relatively new to this genre and I haven't played many classics yet but, for example, I would have placed DMC3 and NGB in the SSS Tier alongside DMC1.

DMC 4 is top tier to me (I like it slightly more than 3), but Automata is great as well. Also, as much as I love KH 2, I think that KH 1 is almost unplayable. Just my two cents on some of the games mentioned.

Those lists are just what we like the most right? Those tiers don't mean much in the end.

I'd put Chaos Legion and Okami well above DMC4 for example. Move and combo count aren't everything.

@Phoenix Wright

Definitely go for Substance/Subsistence. Substance gives you hundreds of VR missions that are great pick up and play fun. The main game is mostly unaffected aside from getting access to European Extreme(depending on what region of the game you’re getting). Subsistence allows you to use a more modern camera style rather than the traditional camera view the series had in the past, and it comes with the original two metal gear games from the MSX. Do you have a PS3? I would just get the HD collection, best way to play the two games IMO.

As for Dark Souls, a lot of people don’t like the way the remastered version looks but I don’t know much about it aside from that.

@Redshot

Keep in mind, I sort of just threw the list together and I don’t think it’s anything to take very seriously, I actually went back and adjusted some things(like moving GoW3 up a rank), but to answer some of your questions:

1) To me, DMC4 being so incomplete is a major blemish on the game, and I really dislike playing as Nero in this one. I find it to have pretty bad enemies too. I suppose it could go up a tier, because when you put it that way, I would certainly play it over Automata(which I kind of hated last time I played it).
2) GoW3 bugs me a bit because of the hugely nerfed collision damage and the samey subweapons. After my GoW2 NUR I played through GoW3 on VH and the minuscule collision damage and dumbed down magic made the game significantly less interesting to me than GoW2. Dad of War should probably be lower, yeah.
3) Yeah, KH2FM is absolutely amazing imo. To be honest I don’t know as much about KH1 as 2, so I put it where I did because that’s simply the enjoyment I got out of it last I played through it.
4) In terms of combat, 100% agree. I made an exception with this just because I love the overall game so much: the story is super fun, the soundtrack is killer, Kiryu is one of my favorite protagonists in gaming, etc.
5) I simply don’t feel that I’m well-versed enough in NG2 to put it at the top. The games I have at SSS Ive played to death and feel that I’m pretty knowledgeable on(KH2 maybe not as much) and NG2 I haven’t even beat on MN once yet. I’m sure when I finally do it I can put it there, since everything I know about the game points to it being a top tier game. As for NGB, there’s just a few levels and bosses I don’t enjoy at all, but again, it’s one of those games that could go either way for me.

Got it. Thanks for the input, Infinity.

And no, I don't own a PS3, sadly.

Sure thing. Have you played MGS1?

I just realized your tier list has Ninja Gaiden 3 at C.

A.k.a the same level as God of War 3, and above the DMC4 and the reboot.

I'm curious for your justification on this.

>Have you played MGS1?

A long time ago, yes, but didn't finish it. I think I only played it for 1-2 hours.

@Omega ZX


ZX Automata has some RPG stuff that comprimises the action and a bad highest setting. I played KH1 not too long ago for the first time and it's very good. It has good bosses, a valid melee moveset with customizable attacks, different spells (better than souls combat-wise) and a fantastic summon system (I only wish I could skip summons' cutscenes). The PS4 version is very fluid, you should buy the collection or replay it if you still own KH1.

@Infinity_Divide

Thanks for the answer. Now I understand better your list and I agree with all of your points. I didn't delve deeply into GoW3 so I was unaware of that.
Since you are also an expert of MGS, what position would they occupy in that list?

@TheFirmament1

With NG3 I assumed it meant RE. Looking at the list again I would put DMC4 and GoW3 up one each. I actually like RE and feel is belongs alongside those other games, I think it has solid fundamentals and weapons.

@Phoenix Wright

If you care about story I would suggest playing it first. It’s a bit of a controversial opinion but I don’t like MGS1 nearly as much as 2-4 for many gameplay reasons. If you don’t care about the story then I would say you’re safe to jump into 2.

@Redshot

>GoW3

I believe collision damage was reduced to roughly 20% of what it was in GoW2, shifting the combat from collision setups to playing it like a more traditional action game(for me, anyway). I know a lot of people like the Cestus but it, along with the other weapons in the game really pale in comparison to what 2 had to offer imo, the hammer and spear in 2 had great utility(synergy with shatters, stuff like piercing shards for quick knockback and collisions, etc) that I feel the weapons in 3 don’t quite have. All of that being said, still a great game, and of course it has some really epic moments and fights.

>MGS

Expert? You’re too kind haha. If I placed them it would probably be:
MGS1- A tier(classic game, innovative, great details, fun as hell story, but mechanically its quite weak compared to the others)
MGS2- SSS tier(probably the tightest game in the series, best level design, best alert/caution details, best version of the attack team, and of course the most brutal bosses on EE)
MGS3- SSS tier(Amazing systems, stupid amounts of viable tools and strats, fantastic and varied bosses, really the complete game imo)
MGS4- S tier(best AI, scenarios, and weapons in the series but suffers from pacing issues)
MGS5- B tier(plays very well, tons of stuff to mess around with, loaded with crazy details in series tradition, but is also missing stuff from past games and the open world is mostly a waste)

EDIT: I realize in my post earlier about MGS5 I made it sound like the game is bad or something, it definitely isn’t, it just has a lot of things that bother me and has too many modern elements in it. I also said A tier at first for that game but I think that might be generous.

Noted, and since it's an A-tier game for you, I'm curious to try it (not to mention that I have some free time for now). Fortunately my PC is able to run PSX games. There seems to be an expanded version for this game too, I should go for that one as well (I'm getting some Final Mix vibes from this).

On a slightly unrelated note, I wasn't expecting to play my first game on my list with a keyboard, heh.

Yeah if you have it available to you then go for it. Just be aware that its controls and some sections of the game will probably be hard to get used to. Keep me posted on your progress.

>wasn’t expecting to play first game with a keyboard

Which game is that?

>Keep me posted on your progress.

Will do.

>Which game is that?

MGS1. Since my PS2 is almost dead at this point (I think I'd have to buy a new one), I have no choice but play the game via an emulator. I heard MGS1 is pretty demanding, but there hasn't been a single PSX game that my PC wasn't able to run at full speed... let's just hope it works.

Oh. Duh haha. I can’t imagine playing that with a keyboard but then again, I’m not used to playing anything with a keyboard.

I admit it takes a little longer for me to get used to a new game when I'm using a keyboard, but when I get the hang of it, playing with a controller or a keyboard has no impact on my performance.

I'll start playing this game later tonight.

I’m excited for you haha.

@RedShot

Yeah the RPG elements of NieR Automata can compromise the combat sometimes. I don't think it is a game-breaking flaw or anything, but they definitely could have done a better job at balancing things. Still, this is the first time Platinum attempts to make a RPG, and the game has a lot of other qualities, so I don't mind too much. About Very Hard mode, I don't think it's meant to be taken too seriously. It's a hardcore joke mode, basically.

Unfortunately, I can't agree on KH 1, which I replayed recently on ps3 and couldn't stand. I think that the combat is very clunky and imprecise, with bad camera, bad AI and bad bosses which clearly aren't designed to possibly fight with no damage. The fact that this is the only KH game in which there isn't a cooldown for the healing spell means something to me: this is an action game designed with a jrpg mentality, and it just doesn't work imo. It's somewhat excusable for being a 2002 game, but I think that Square improved MASSIVELY with KH 2. Also, I don't care for the story in the first game since it lacks all the interesting stuff that gets introduced in later entries, so there's not even that. But hey, to each his own, and if you like it, then more power to you.