Chatting about games

Found this gem of a quote btw, that I love. From Itagaki about Devil May Cry:

I think Kamiya-san makes good games. However, I think they, the systems, gameplay elements in his game tend to be rather shallow and he makes up with that through stylish presentation. I think if you were to compare them directly, the combat and other gameplay elements in Ninja Gaiden II are much deeper than projects that he works on.
...In my games its all based on a back and forth with the enemies, its very interactive. You feel like you're pushed to the brink but you manage to survive, the enemies are as out to get you as you are to get them. Whereas other types of action games, one of which being Devil May Cry, enemies exist there as objects on which you unleash your attacks.

And you know what? I kind of see what he's talking about. Especially about that 'on the brink' part.

Hey, that's exactly what I was talking about before. I referred to it as 'combat capability vs. combat exchange'.

Yesterday a friend who knows I;m into action games showed me this action RPG called Ys: Dana of something. Watched some other guy play a bit and they were showing me how the last second dodge speeds you up and causes the enemy to slow down, making comparisons to Bayonetta.

Not the type of game I'd usually play but might give it a go if I can rent or find it super cheap.

Birdman wrote:Yesterday a friend who knows I;m into action games showed me this action RPG called Ys: Dana of something. Watched some other guy play a bit and they were showing me how the last second dodge speeds you up and causes the enemy to slow down, making comparisons to Bayonetta.

Not the type of game I'd usually play but might give it a go if I can rent or find it super cheap.

In theory they're pretty similar but in actual execution they're completely different.

The game has two different 'parries' flash dodge and flash guard. Guard gives a invencible buff + damage increase while dodge gives you invencible buff + slowdown effect for the duration of respective effects. They can be both be active at the same time and even reset if the boss leaves an attack with lots of active frames in the screen. This make it possible to use dodge -> guard -> dodge in a single attack. If you're playing harder difficulties you'll soon realize that defense numbers are uselesss and that the gameplan will be relying on learning the time of attacks and having these at pretty much 100%uptime if you wanna be able to damage to bosses. In the whole game there's like two moves that you can't parry(I don't remember if you can parry certain inflict status moves, but I'm pretty sure you can), so yeah the game will revolve around that quite a lot.

If you're interested you can check any boss on the inferno difficulty to see what I'm talking about.

Also for the rpg side of things, it's pretty basic as you'll be wanting to stack as much damage and flash guard/dodge increased duration that you can, defense is only really useful if you're a new player attempting lower difficulties.

Is it a fun system though?

I saw him fighting a boss and they said it was Inferno and the boss was like level 90+. He barely did damage even when getting the flash thing and it took ages to defeat. For some reason I forgot, only one character could hurt the boss. If he selected others, the boss became invisible.

Saw him fight some other monsters (a monster hunt quest) and nothing takes hit stun. It's like everything has super armor. I probably won't enjoy using the same tactic over and over.

When I asked about builds or tactics they only seemed to talk about how strong a certain thing was, rather than anything interesting.

Anyone like the Assassin's Creed series? How's the Ezio Collection?

Fun is really subjective, I personally enjoy the simplistic dodge and parry fast paced combat.

As for tactics, the game is pretty simple and boils down mostly to always having your resource up at all times so you can dish the strongest moves while on flash modes. Weaker mobs have guard gauges and can be juggled once you break it, stronger mobs have no guard gauges but can be stunned after a while, the main problem is that on inferno usually it takes forever to stun mobs so it's fast to just build damage instead. Aside from that there are a few moves that can freeze mobs so you can deal damage to them without the need of flash state. Ultimately there isn't much to talk as far as varied strategies go, it usually boils down to getting down patterns and doing the usual thing on most bosses save for a few exceptions.

That's of course talking as if you've mastered all flashes for all moves and without taking in account human error for flash guard/dodge, if you're not at that level then there's plenty to talk about flashes and patterns such as which moves are easier to time, which ones you should be careful, which moves and which flash you'll use to min/max your damage, etc.

Was this the boss you've been linked?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epGVZBj8XTo

>AssCreed
I've played the first one for a few hours, never really had the interest in the sequels.

It wasn't that boss, but it did look similar. Instead of swords, it had claws I think, and it often launched laser spewing orbs.

Pretty sure user @Cryoshock was into the Ys games, though not sure. I recall him mentioning them at some point.

> AssCreed
Fun games, but not very mechanically deep and held back by abysmall controls and AI, as well as way too powerful parries. The Ezio Trilogy is pretty fun though, but very time consuming. I really liked Brotherhood, fun game.

Wasnt that the one where you could summon assassins or special attacks like the arrow rain? That shit was so damn strong.

Overall I dislike the series but I really didnt mind the first few. I think it was Revelations where I knew I couldnt stand another game.

Yeah that was the one, really fun game. Funny you should mention Revelations, I had the exact same feeling with that game. It was the last one I ever played.

RE Revelations 2 is on sale on the store too. Played it once before and didnt mind it. Anyone played it?

How's Raid Mode? Is the online still active?

Depends on the system, Switch is seeing more activity recently since it is on sale there. Great Raid Mode though. I really loved REREV2, put a lot of hours into that game way back. Was my first PS4 game actually.

It looks fun. I see you level up. Is it grindy and are fights decided by your stats?

Yes, very. Skill factors into it, but if you're outleveled you're basically screwed.

Ive never played the first AC. Found it in a bargain bin for $9.

I still remember back before release and I didnt even have a PS3, me and my bros watched a gameply trailer with this epic chase. At the time it looked really fun and unique.

Will be interesting to see how it all started. I started with AC 2 and the other Ezio ones due to my sister buying them all for me for Christmas. Revelations was supposed to come with AC1 but there are two versions here and one doesnt have it. Sadly she got the one that doesnt.

I really like some of the ideas in these games like the distractions you can cause and blending is really cool. I wish they could make the actual fighting better somehow though.

I'm selling some games. Got too much shit.

Darksiders 2 and Nier A will be first to go.

Darksiders loot nonsense and boring combat is wearing me down. It's not necessarily the loot concept, it's just that there isn't actually much variety in how you can build the character. I was in it for the zombie and crow summons, which aren't bad, but in the end not very interesting. I'll play and enjoy an action RPG if it offers a lot of customization (preferably with respec) so I can keep creating new builds, but DS2 ain't that.

Might get rid of Vampyr too though I want to try that again and just kill everyone because it will let me access more moves faster. I'll think about that.

Bought a LOT of good stuff in Taiwan. One is a book dedicated to Suda51, another being an artbook on Street Fighter's complete history (including some...questionable artwork). An artbook with all artwork ever made for Kirby. A Fist of the North Star manga, the offical FotNS guide (in japanese) with interview, images and fun other fun stuff.

The crowning piece though is a short magazine that has practice material and examples on how to draw huge anime breasts with its own mascot. It is absolutely hilarious.

Hahaha

How are the used game stores over there? Ive heard tales from friends in Asia of treasure troves.

There's some great shops, found one really neat one that has basically every console (even some weird bootlegs I've never seen before and official consoles I had no idea existed) with a ton of fully boxed games like Ninja Gaiden on NES or a super rare collectors edition of Super Castlevania 4 on the SNES. Sadly it is all NTSC-J, so doesn't work on my machines. Pretty expensive stuff too. You'd love it!

I'd love for you to buy it all for me as well.

Wasn't sure where to put this.
I don't think this guy really knows his mechanics.

Sure, TMNT was majorly flawed, but it had a lot of cool elements.
He also criticizes the over the shoulder angles like in TFD.
Comments on Star Fox are pretty accurate.

Charlie not knowing his mechanics is sort of par for the course. I like his content, it's very entertaining, but it's always a skim of whatever he's talking about. The worst one for me was his Ninja Gaiden (at least the first one) videos. It just seems like he made those videos for his patrons, not really because he loved the series, and it shows. He didn't even go past Normal on any of the games, and missed a lot of what makes the games great. He also never mentioned Itagaki at all, which is bizarre.

I don't want to be too critical, because at the end of the day, he seems like a nice guy who just wants to share his love for action games, even though he may not be the most knowledgeable person. It's not like he's claiming to be a master at any of these, and he does a nice job selling them to new players. But yeah, in general I wouldn't go to his videos for super in depth analysis. He just likes making action game videos.

My main problem with a lot of action YTers, is that they look at everything through the lens of DMC. If a game doesn't have hard lock on, it should, if a game doesn't prioritize crazy style (Ninja Gaiden), it's a lesser game, if enemies dictate the flow of battle, rather than the player, it's not as good (KH2FM). Stuff like that. It just seems like a very narrow view of the genre, one that I used to have until I started talking with people who are obsessed about these games (including you guys). I used to shit on God of War because, "It doesn't have those amazing DMC combos and jumpcancelling bro!" I regret that, because I went through the GoW series looking down upon it as something inferior, when the two series are setting out to accomplish different things.

He may not be saying he's a master, but he often makes claims to what has more depth when he doesnt know what he's talking about. This is annoying. He does it in the Suda51 video too.

Yeah I know what you mean. My main problem with him is that he seems very hesitant to take advice and learn from people who know better than he does. In his NG comment section, several people (including Roy), kindly tried to correct or educate him on things, and he just turned his nose up and started acting really snarky.

What can you do? With a brat like that always on your back, what can you lose?

One of 'those' eh?
I despise this type.

They make authoritative statements publicly, then when they get called out, or even just contested in a friendly manner, they get all shitty because it's more important to be right than anything else and admitting it would require serious backpedalling.

To be fair, he says quite a few things right, but then some stuff that's either completely off due to lack of mechanical knowledge, fanboyism, and a bit of whining thrown in.

Yep. He sometimes gets a big head because he has a decent following on YT.

On his first NG video, there's a lot of parts where he'll be like, "So I think X is like this, but since I haven't done Y, I'm not sure." The entire video is essentially just him talking about his first impressions with the games, but it's structured like an analysis of it. He's a little too overly friendly towards the game, almost like he doesn't want to piss off the fanbase. In all his videos, he praises and mentions DMC all the time, but never NG, so I assuming he's just not that into it, but wanted to show the game respect. It's a really weird video. I liked his NG2 video better. Not perfect, but I think he did a nice job explaining why the game is loved, and he seemed to have more of a passion for that game.

Funny you should mention Charlie, Kaji and I have talked about him in-depth for a while now. Guy has brief moments of brilliance, but he's mostly just a big DMC fan that likes to talk enthousistically about games and in doing so loses a bit of his insights on what he's talking about. He can also get very defensive and bratty about statements, such as his incorrect observations about Flying Swallow in NGB for which he was called out by nearly the whole NG-community, to the point that he redefended himself in his NG2 video.

Guy also generally only plays the games on the regular settings I think (i.e. Normal).

DMC being the 'reference' so to speak is a problem the genre has camped with for a long time. But this is also because it is so easy to spot quality in it. You can easily link a video showing some sick combo, but showing a video of someone canceling an IS-explosion on them with a Claw >XX in NG2 does nothing except make experts cry tears of joy. The former can be appreciated by anyone in some form, the latter only by some.

NOTE: good to see you here again Kaji! Surprised to see you rocking an NG3 avatar ;p

Yeah sorry I've been so absent here. Good to be back!

Lol I just like this picture of Ryu. It's been my favorite for a while now. I love how vibrant his eyes are, the blood on his face, and him slowly pulling his mask down in a moment of respite. So cool. No, I don't have it there because I love the third game haha. I had a pic of Hayashi on here for a few days, but I guess you didn't see it. I'll post it here later, it's pretty funny.

Just watched the NG2 video.

Have to give him credit, he really did a good job selling the game to me. I'm going to see if I can find it for Christmas.

So he admits that flying swallow can be done when the conditions are met, but just doesnt like the conditions? Better than before I guess, but I can see what you mean when you said he gets 'snarky'.

Why is it so hard to just admit you were wrong about something?

Why is it so hard to just admit you were wrong about something?
Trust me, I ask that to my dad all the time.

Anyone ever get into Dragon's Crown?

I got Pro damn cheap this afternoon due to Christmas sales.

>Dragon’s Crown
I tried twice, it did nothing for me. The only Vanillaware game I’ve ever liked was the remake of Odin Sphere, but I thought it was a slog with the repeated content. Granted, I haven’t played these games very much, but Dragon’s Crown especially I just couldn’t get in to.

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Weren't they also the guys behind Demon Blade or something similar? I heard that game (the Wii version) got a lot of love back then.

Yeah, that’s them. I thought that game was pretty decent too, now that I think about it. The dev has a lot of potential but they’re not quite there yet imo.

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Anyone played this?

Game looks fantastic, pretty interesting. There's something you see happen a lot, people grab a existing formula and change it where the main developers didn't dare change it. I heard him note "triangle" though as a button, but I don't see notes on a PS4 release. Only PC and X1.

Anyone here like Katamari? Picked up Reroll for Switch and forgot how awesome this game is. It manages to have so many unique little traits within its simplicity, it really strikes me as something Nintendo would have made(although it’s a little too weird, maybe).

I used to have it on PSP. Very unique and fun.

I used to have it on PSP. Very unique and fun.

Soooooooooooo where should I start? I read too much to the point where my mind couldn't take it anymore lol.

Has anyone played Shadow Warrior on PS4?

I played SW on pc. My only complaint were the gamepad controls were trash. It auto aims to the chest of enemies. Makes it impossible to pull of skillful headshots. I don't know if that has been patched, or the ps4 is better, this was years ago. Other than that, it is awesome. I like it more than Doom 4. The dodge move is so great to have. I also really loved the upgrade system. You find money for weapon upgrades everywhere. Tons of well hidden secrets. Skillful kills get you xp for moves, there are a lot of them and they are varied. I highly recommend it, especially if you get it on sale.

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The PS4 version is all I have but other than having to push the analog stick twice the controls are good on PS4. Also Aim Assist does not aim to the chest as far as I remember.

I have to say that it is rather sad seeing games getting removed one day. It works both ways.

What do you mean, digital purchases?

Yes and physical purchases.

I think I'm gonna stop listening to Cane&Rinse podcasts unless they have a guest speaker who knows gameplay like they did with Saur and Yoshesque. They're a bit sjw and fo a fair bit of whining like on the Dino Crisis podcast when discussing Regina's outfit some girl was whining about her butt jiggle. Similar whining was done over Bayonetta. Not super high level but enough to make me think 'Oh shut the FUCK up you little crybabies'.

I remember one of them saying Regina is not as 'unfortunate' as some other Capcom characters. I say bigger and more offensive, the better.

There's a lot of good info on development and such but they usually play the games leading up to the podcast so you cant expect much in the gameplay department.

What do you guys think of Light Gun/Rail Shooting games?