DMC5 General Discussion

Oh god, don't do that hahaha! You know those guys probably don't even know what NG is

I've been trying to find that twice so far for the replies and I can't find it.

I'm seriously sick of all the fanboys over at r/DevilMayCry constantly whining for validation by the gaming websites that they constantly complain about. Like, what the fuck kind of relationship is this?

It's the eternal circlejerk:

"IGN said this game is a 10/10 so it should be good"!

One day later:

"IGN said this game is a 3/10, cannot spell ignorant without IGN haha".

I have never seen a more insecure fan base.

This is the game I'm playing right now and I'm loving it SO much. I should have picked this one at launch instead of Sekiro (which is an amazing game, don't get me wrong).

Talking a bit about my relationship with the series, I am a fan of DMC 3, 4 and DmC DE. Each one of these titles imo does something better than the other two, but also something worse:
- DMC 3 has ofc great historical value and has Devils Never Cry which might still be my fave DMC song. However, I think that half of the bosses are just bad.
- DMC 4 has the best combat mechanics and bosses (not counting 5 yet), but the enemy design sometimes gets really frustrating, especially with the blitzes and the chimeras
- DmC DE is kind of controversial, but I think it's easily the best art-wise. The disco level is probably my favorite of the whole series. However, as much as I love the combat as well, I feel that they could have done more with the bosses and could raise the difficulty a bit, DMD here is comparable to SoS in DMC 4.

Sadly I don't really enjoy DMC 1, because I played it too late and can't get accustomed with the camera and the checkpoints. The checkpoints are a product of their time, but I believe that the camera is genuinely a flaw sometimes, and a quite frustrating one. DMC 2 just doesn't exist. :D

Back to DMC 5... I think this is the magnus opus of the series. Nero and Dante play the best they've ever been, V is really interesting too albeit not as fun as the other two, and the game manages to be both extremely complex and easily accessible for newcomers. The enemies are great and the average boss quality is pretty high, too. The very final battle is probably my favorite fight in the series, I've replayed it several times (mainly for the soundtrack, lol).

Now I have 27 hours in and have done Devil Hunter, some Son of Sparda (mission 13 right now) and some BP: the highest I've got is floor 83 with Dante, but with Nero I can't even reach 41 consistently.

Surprisingly I'm not having many issues in SoS (I haven't died yet), but I'm still scared for DMD. I've watched TheSeraphim17's videos (which I recommend, I love how in-depth goes that guy when criticising a game, he's almost an inspiration) and it seems that it will be quite a difficulty spike in both damage received and enemies' health.

DMD is mostly just more tankier foes that hit harder, so unless you're face tanking in SoS you won't really notice that much of a difference aside from bosses lasting longer.

Regarding the series, I like all of them in different regards, even DMC2. It's not bad, just different and very rushed. I think I like DMC1 and 3 the most, and 4 the least as a whole. 5 is a good title for me, but a tad too easy imo.

DMC1's checkpoints are never that big a bother for me considering how short the missions are (between 1-3 minutes), but it can get tired at times walking back to certain fights.

>However, I think that half of the bosses are just bad.

Am I the only fan of the time freeze horse?

Geryon is ok, but his version in 5 is so much better. I was referring to Arkham, Lady, Gigapede, Jester, somewhat even Agni & Rudra which don't fit the combat system at all, and Vergil 3 which can get a bit bs with his devil trigger (unpopular opinion, I know). I really like Nevan and Vergil 1/2.

About 5 being a tad easy I think it comes down to the fact the we as players have already experience with the series and are accustomed to the mechanics. It would be interesting to see a newcomer's playthrough.

Or maybe it would be more frustrating than interesting, because some people have a hard time understanding that jumping is the main defensive option and they'd probably complain that they can't avoid attacks. There is an Italian journalist who ranted about both Metal Gear Rising (when it came out) and Sekiro because dodging doesn't work, and it's just so stupid imo. I get that some people might dislike being forced to parry everything, but this guy never even tried to understand how these games work.

Metal Gear Rising had it really hard. It featured a nearly 10 minute tutorial covering its parry system that everyone skipped only to then not understand it. That really frustrated me at the time. Fact that this game allowed you to cancel all your defensive options into each-other and cancel those animations, it was such a fantastic combat system. Love it!

Regarding DMC's bosses. Arkham is universally loathed iirc, and I don't like it either. The idea of playing with Vergil is cute, and being able to co-op the fight is cool too, but taking away your style is just wack.

I like the rest of the fights though. Lady is fun and different, Gigapede is built around reflecting projectiles back while still offering a healthy dose of alternatives. Vergil 3 is fun if you start to really focus on attacking him during his DT which is really risky, but really adds flavor to the fight. I admit to liking Vergil 2 the most though like most people. But Arkham really makes me groan.

My favourite boss in the series is probably still Nero Angelo. Just such a great set of moves, good music, atmosphere, mystery, lots of creative loops possible. Fantastic boss imo.

Regarding a newcomer playing DMCV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GIVyXkRgWE

DSP is quite notorious for being bad at games, so his videos are always really fun in a dark humor kind of way.

I generally find bosses in DMC kinda lacking, but I think DMC3 has some of the best ones. Agni and Rudra, Vergil 1,2,3, Nevan, Beowulf and Cerberus are all really well designed around differen types of approach.
DMC4 has Angelo Credo which is arguably the best boss in the entire franchise, with great mechanics that create this amazing back and forth, and the fact tha you can use all of the mechanics against him (JC, Aerial Combos, Inertia, Reversals etc) to creat something amazing. If you want an example watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ken8sOu0x-8 I still consider it the best DMC stylish video ever made.
DMC5 is pretty lacking imho, most bosses(just like the enemies) are way too easy and don't offer much both of term of style play and in terms of general design. It's difficult to explain, it's like you need to play by their rules and nothing else which goes against DMC combat design imho.

Omega ZX wrote:There is an Italian journalist

Quindi sei italiano anche tu?

Wow that video was soooo good. Another Credo fight I really enjoy to see is this one, because the guy used Devil Trigger as song and synchronized his gameplay with the music. https://youtu.be/ntPAdUT846w

Credo really is an awesome fight and maybe the best of the series from a mechanical standpoint. I might enjoy Vergil vs Nero a little more but that's mainly because of the OST and the build-up.

However, funnily enough what you said about the bosses in 5 is the reason why I don't like Agni & Rudra, they force you to use specific strategies and limit your approach to the battle. I don't think that the bosses in 5 have this problem, except maybe things like the Qlipoth Roots, Crystal Urizen or Gilgamesh, which are considered the least interesting of the game. But then we have Cavaliere Angelo (kind of a Credo 2.0 btw), Malphas, King Cerberus, Final Urizen and the Vergil fights which are all awesome and masterfully designed. Also this is the first DMC game which I feel doesn't have an outright bad fight. The same applies with the enemies, too.

PS: yep, sono italiano ahaha. Ora mi sfugge chi fosse il recensore di cui parlavo, magari dopo controllo. Comunque ricordo che anche Fraws criticò MGR senza averci capito nulla ed ero lì tipo "bruh, u can't be serious"

Credo is a fantastic boss fight, completely agree. He's also got one of the best soundtracks in the game paired with the regular angelo foes. One thing I feel he does really well, especially in that specific game compared to the other bosses, is be more than a floating hitbox to sandbag.

While Belial and mister frog all have their interesting mechanics of course, at the core they are just this giant well textured box that you're attacking and jumping off of. They rarely react to your attacks etc. While it makes for fun combo videos, their gameplay aren't that great imo.

I think I mostly just love it when bosses try to be more than 'bigger meaner enemy that you hit until they die'. It is why I really adore what Astral Chain did with its boss fights, same with DMC3, there's nearly always something extra at play.

And eh...ik kan ook een taal spreken die niet Engels is hoor!

I'm not a fan of the defense buff (let's call it DT, even if it's not exactly that) bosses get on DMD when they are at low hp.

Isn't it still Devil Trigger? Or did they change that in subsequent releases?

Yeah it's called devil trigger, but I never liked that name because the actual DT works in a different manner (see Vergil).

Is anyone here still playing this game?

I recently started a DMD No Damage run which isn't really what I wanted to talk about. But rather share a strategy I've used for the first Urizen fight. It's nothing special and probably something the crafty people on this forum could figure out themselves no prob.

The strategy is simple and reliable. By using Ragtime strategically it's possible to do double Showdown's to open the fight which decreases the crystal's HP significantly.

Video demonstration below

https://youtu.be/_MuLLLRiogM?t=342

Again, nothing special. But if you find this boss as frustrating as I do, and are possibly attempting a similar run, this could be helpful.

Great stuff man. Never liked that fight myself, really the epitomie of 'floating hitbox to attack'. Anyway to skip him is welcomed haha. Felt the crystal HP was way overdone, though thankfully you can kill him in a single cycle which helps a ton.

Not playing this game myself anymore. Still boot up DMC3 from time to time though. How's the run going so far?

> Urizen
I really don't like him. It's obvious he's made for Dante ( as he can absolutely melt the crystal) and Nero is supposed to just eat the failure for lame story reasons. Even the S rank requirements are tuned to accommodate expected failure. But this obviously isn't an available luxury on a no damage run. So many of his attacks overlap in ways that can really screw you over making Gerbera a necessity imo.
Can you single cycle him on DMD? Never managed it myself.

> The run so far
Only completed this level so far. Though I've been working on strats for some of the others. Nero plays very different from the others. With the tankyness of the enemies, this type of run really requires specific and strategic use of arm load-outs to do any significant damage. Something I'd probably enjoy more if I wasn't playing on PS4. The load times combined with the fact that loading a checkpoint doesn't restore arms used after that checkpoint make even practice runs of a level incredibly tedious.
Really dreading mission 8 and 18 in particular.

This is my first time attempting a no damage run. Believe it or not I didn't even know what I-frames were until I played Bloodborne 2 years ago. I also suck, so this is pretty challenging for me.

>DMC3
Been playing this myself a bit lately on my PS2 of all things. CERBERUS IS AWESOME! Such a good song. Really miss the cheesy erm... "Whisper Metal" of this game.

Anyone else have no urge to touch DMCV again?

Every time I consider it I just can't do it. I'll see it next week. I have 4SE somewhere and I'll probably sell that too.

Booted up my old PS2 and had a quick jam on DMC3 SE and it still feels fantastic.

I still have a soft spot for it, and it'd probably rank pretty high amongst my all time genre favourites. Having said that, playing as V on DMD killed off any enjoyment I had on that difficulty. It was such a slog and I just stopped playing in the end.

I can see why 3SE is still considered the king of the series. It really is an action classic. I find 4SE is the one I have the least desire to revisit, even though I liked the extra characters in it. Bloody Palace was enjoyable in 4 but the main story mode was disappointing, being what felt like half a game played forwards and then the same half again in reverse.

I'm mixed. I prefer it over DMC4 at least in terms of how Nero handles, but there's something about the title that just makes me think "I'll play 1 or 3 instead". Might have to do with the art-style and that it feels slower/less arcadey somehow. The more spongey enemies and lower overall difficulty also don't help imo.

If I ever play it again it will be on PC I think.

I still feel like I want to play it again but I don't really feel like installing it again. I'm making no progress in what I am playing.

Me. Definitely no urge to touch DMC5 again to hone my skills or just to have fun (actually haven't touched that since last Oct after I platinum it). I didn't plan to play 4SE at all when it first came out just because I did everything with 4 back then, but I briefly turned to 4SE after 5 just because of the itch to play as Vergil and Trish since they weren't available in 5. Only to leave the game shortly after I finished Vergil and Lady/Trish playthrough because the campaigns were just so damn repetitive. I find it somewhat disappointing after all these years DMC still won't offer some sort of unlockable characters in the game but resort to special editions afterwards, only to give you extra characters that run through the SAME campaign, again. DMC 1 and 3 are the ones that I occasionally revisit tho, especially 1.

It's the opposite for me. I find myself getting the urge to play DMC4 and 5 every so often. But whenever I go back to 1 and 3 I lose interest and quit after a few hours.

A mod recently came out that rewrites the AI to be more aggressive and it's fucking great, might record some footage later.

Basically what the modder did was replacing the non offensive moves with offensive ones. It still has some problems (like enemies using attacks to move even if you aren't in range or doing the same attack over and over), but it's such a breath of fresh air being actually attacked. They can also initiate attacks offscreen and can attack in more than two at a time. This mod also makes bosses more aggressive, which is also nice.

Also another one came out which makes most of V's attacks faster and adds some cancels, making him much more engaging to play and less clunky.
In general, if it wasn't for mods I would have stopped playing this game after S ranking DMD. This game has probably the best modding community of any action game.

>which makes most of V's attacks faster and adds some cancels
Any that make him not a cripple, have movement NOT tied to his demons, and can unsummon anytime?

Yes, I just want him to play like Seig in Chaos Legion or the Astral Chain people.

I'm mostly happy that Capcom seems to be okay with the level of modding going on, though it must also make you wonder as a developer that you might be doing some things wrong when your base game is basically modded out to the nth-degree.

>have movement NOT tied to his demons
Unfortunately no, but that isn't the biggest problem with him imo. It's the fact that the pets are always moving randomly, fucking up their position. I hope this is fixable somehow.

>can unsummon anytime?
This was present in an older cheat table, but was quite buggy and was removed. I have no doubt it will be reimplemented, but since the main modder is busy it will take a while.

>I'm mostly happy that Capcom seems to be okay with the level of modding going on
You can give yourself infinite Red Orbs and buy everything, skipping the MTX. I don't think they care enough to do something about it, which is great.

>it must also make you wonder as a developer that you might be doing some things wrong when your base game is basically modded out to the nth-degree
It has more to do on how easy is to mod the game more than anything else, since the majority of the mod focus on combo stuff anyway. It's only recently that other (more interesting) mods came out, like Yamato for Dante, harder boss Vergil etc.

Stop them moving until commanded like AC maybe.

Recently saw a Twitter post from Chaser Tech saying he wants to play DMC5 Dante but can't and listed some reasons why the game is 'ass'.

Any thoughts on this? Is the slower speed and lighter gravity really an issue? I can see people who like inertia being pissed, though personally I didn't care for it. Dante has so much cool stuff in 5 it's way better for me.

I don't feel game speed is really a problem. We all play action games that move at different speeds.

Despite DMC5 being very moddable (they added back reversals, inertia, cut the JC cooldown etc.) there are still a couple of things that they didn't manage to mod back in, particularly stronger gravity and ground cancels, so a lot of players still prefer 4 for combo making reasons (plus Lucifer, which is ass in normal gameplay but can create a lot of cool possibilities for combos). Also keep in mind that these people have more than a 1000 hours in DMC4, meaning that it's pretty difficult to adapt to a new engine.

I think that last part is pretty heavy weighing too. You see this transition a lot with fighting-games too, players play Street Fighter IV for billions of hours over the course of ten years, and then jump to Street Fighter V which is totally different yet similar in other ways; plays with your mind.

There's a ton of mechanical reasons as you noted, and I think Lucifer is a good part of that. On the flipside I think there's also a lack of open mindedness and also a lack on the game's part. DMCV really had to do one of two things I feel, either vastly improve the content-side of what DMC4 offered in terms of detail, moveset design and level/enemy design, or be DMC4-but-better. Instead it ended up being neither, and just being more or less the same game with a few steps forward and backwards in design. For example I still don't get how we had low-budget X360 games with unique 20 looking missions, yet DMCV still is one "lol tree" mission it feels like.

>Instead it ended up being neither
Don't know about that. The game is pretty much DMC4 but better, except for combos. As far as I've seen the vast majority of the people that rank 4 above 5 either do it because they are combo makers that played 4 for a few thousand hours or because they got tricked into thinking that combos are peak action gameplay, despite them not even being able to JC Ecstasy in DMC4.

The moveset balancing is better (Faust aside), enemies have more interesting mechanics aside from "lol shields and superarmor", bosses are more interesting, Nero got improved quite a bit etc. Even the levels themselves offer some kind of non linearity and don't waste your time like the ones in 4. The only things that 4 does better imo are visual variety (which isn't even that great since it doesn't really fit DMC) and that Nero in 4 is better than V in 5.

> DMC4 but better, except for combos
What makes combos better in 4? I'm not saying they aren't, just that I don't know.

Personally I enjoy the options in 5 more than 4. But I loved Lucifer as a main weapon. Moves/abilities that leave something on the field are my favorite.

I too enjoy the options in 5 more than the ones in 4, even for combo making purposes, but only because the ones in 4 are so hard to do.
In general, in 4 you have inertia, reversals, stronger gravity (allowing for better repositioning), land cancelling, JC with no cooldown (5 has it but it's really hard to notice if you didn't play 4 before) and lots of other little stuff that got lost in 5 (like not being able to cancel Nero's DT activation with a jump anymore). If you know what you are doing in 4 you can microposition both your character and the enemy to an insane degree, which isn't really possible to do in 5. So while DMC5 has more options, they are still beat by DMC4 for the fact that a single move can fill out multiple niches in that game when used in conjunction with other moves/mechanics. For example, Aerial Rave can be used to gain, maintain and lose height depending on the situation, or how Full House can be used to store inertia to then transfer to a guard fly or Rainstorm.

The way you talk about DMC4's high level play, it sounds very movement focused.

I've only toyed a little with some of those techniques but I think a lot has changed since then. I really liked reversals and don't see why they can't just be a thing normally.

I might get back to this. I have the special edition on PS4 but have a lot of catching up to do.

>then transfer to a guard fly or Rainstorm.
Didn't they make it so you can move Rainstorm in 5?

>it sounds very movement focused
It is. It's the most important aspect of combos as far as I've seen. The degree of control on your position and the enemy position is pretty insane but it's very hard to do.

>don't see why they can't just be a thing normally
IIRC Itsuno said that they removed them in DMC5 because playtesters were doing them accidentally, which also happened to me in 4 and even 3, but it seems like a pretty drastic decision for such a minor thing. Also it confirmed that Capcom doesn't really give a fuck about high level combos. It was fun to see all the salt that came with it. And despite this there are still people today that say that playing DMC efficiently is "wrong" becuase they "created all this complex combo systems", ignoring the fact that they are only really present in 4. Sure, the games allow for cool looking combos and are built with them in mind (the promotional videos of DMC3 are basically combo videos), but it's not like it's the only valid playstyle.

>Didn't they make it so you can move Rainstorm in 5?
Yes but it's a bit more sluggish compared to the inertia Rainstorm you could do in 4. Not that it really matters unless you are really into DMC4.

>but it's very hard to do.
I could never get them consistently outside of reversals but I didn't put that much time in either. Might look into them again.

>And despite this there are still people today that say that playing DMC efficiently is "wrong"
Years ago I got either abused or talked down to for using Lucifer as my main weapon. I was only really interested in trying to set up combos where the enemy could be bounced off the pins. Apparently that wasn't allowed as you were only allowed to use for other combo purposes that I don't give a shit about.

>Yes but it's a bit more sluggish compared to the inertia Rainstorm you could do in 4.
Is that just because DMC4 was faster or is it sluggish even within the context of DMC5?

One thing I find funny is that DMC fanboys always say that the games are great because they allow you to to freely express yourself through the combat system (and I agree), and then they get mad when you say that other playstyles are as valid as flashy combos.

>Is that just because DMC4 was faster or is it sluggish even within the context of DMC5?
The fist one. DMC5 is slower in general even with Turbo on due to a multitude of factors, so while Rainstorm works in the context of the game it's still disliked by the DMC4 combo makers.
If you want to learn some of the harder tricks for 4 then there are a couple of guides on YouTube which are pretty good.

>and then they get mad when you say that other playstyles are as valid as flashy combos.
They're an odd bunch at times. Some say you shouldn't use certain moves because they're useless and don't do much damage. What do they think combos use?

>DMC5 is slower in general even with Turbo on due to a multitude of factors, so while Rainstorm works in the context of the game it's still disliked by the DMC4 combo makers.
That doesn't seem like a fair comparison then. 5 isn't 4.

>If you want to learn some of the harder tricks for 4 then there are a couple of guides on YouTube which are pretty good.
If I ever go back to it I'll take a look since it's been a long time since I did any of them.

Outside of reversal, I don't recall anything else helping with what I wanted to do with Lucifer. I have some ideas but not sure they're worth hundreds of hours of practice and having to constantly reload areas with the enemies that don't die fast. Especially when there are other games where I can play the way I want with much less trouble.

I had some ideas I wanted to test. Then I found I don't have a Special Edition (or any version) save file.

I haven't played in ages. How long would it take to unlock everything again?

Guessing they ain't got cheat codes for that these days. Lame as Hell.

DMC3 had cheats for that, but I don't think DMC4 does sadly. Your best bet is to just grind it out, but maxing everything can easily take 2+ playthroughs depending on character and skill-level.

Loaded it up last night.

There's a DLC for all modes and enough orbs to buy everything. It's only a few dollars. I don't know if I can't stand grinding out a new save file.

Fuck this game is fast on turbo. I only played turbo a little but had quit around that time. Even JCing is difficult. I can still reversal for some reason but took like 2 hours to get used to the speed. If I go through with this it's going to take a long time to get used to it in general.

The JC timing is a bit easier on Turbo ironically, but it's still pretty hard. You have to slide your thumb from the attack button to the jump button otherwise you'll be too slow.

I found it easier when it was slower but maybe I'm just used to it.

Got a little better after practicing a bit. Seems easier on Frosts.

>You have to slide your thumb from the attack button to the jump button otherwise you'll be too slow.
Isn't there a weird way to hold the controller too?

>Frosts
They have a pretty large hurtbox so they are the easiest enemies to practice JC on.

>Isn't there a weird way to hold the controller too?
The claw grip probably (putting your left index finger on the D-Pad and the left thumb on the analog stick to style switch faster) but it's only useful for a couple of very specific combo tricks like skyrunning.

anybody still playing this? played a little when it came out, getting into it again now.

my only issue regarding movesets so far is that they brought back Cerberus but not Flicker. that was Cerberus's coolest move and one of the coolest moves in 3 period. come the fuck on. also, Cerberus's triangle attack in the air isn't that fast whipping action like in 3, it's very awkwardly slow here.

other than that, Dante's kit is sick in this. Nero's awesome. V is certainly there.