The Vent Club

@Phoenix Wright

> Souls games
They are good but the action part is just decent if you compare it to other titles. As Raeng said the build-planning, routing and many (useful) RPG stats make the games great. If you approach them in the right way you can have lots of fun with their mechanics. Dark Souls 1 has endless challenges if you want to toy with equipment, buffs and ranged options.

> KH2 vs Souls
KH2FM is amazing from the perspective of an Action fan (a traditional one I mean). Levels and exploration are very streamlined, checkpoints are mostly lenient, but when you fight you have to use the combat system in the fullest to survive. The combat system is extremely deep and rich of options with pros and cons. Offensive actions and defensive maneuvers are varied, every magic is well integrated like Forms, Limits and Combo Finishers. You can't autopilot the game, you have to think each one of your moves or you die.

Sora is one of the strongest characters ever and even with the presence of extremely aggressive normal enemies and (super)bosses if he isn't a glass cannon, then the balance is broken.
Easier difficulties than Critical are mindless, Critical breaks when you get those two abilities (they should allow them only on Proud), Lv 1 Critical is the only real difficulty and it's very tough, one of the hardest ones in the genre for sure.

Hard action games by default are very rare, so I find these complaints groundless for the most part. They usually arrive from DMC casuals, specialized in admiring others' combo videos. In reality DMC has two moderately hard titles on the standard difficulty: DMC1 and the American release of DMC3. Except for those two, they are easy titles on Normal and even challenge runs on DMD hardly compare with a Lv 1 Crit in KH2FM. Items break DMC (and Bayonetta) like those two abilities in KH2FM, in both of these cases you can decide to not use them or do the highest challenge (recognised by the game) where they aren't allowed.

> KH2 remaster
Yes, what you said is correct. There are even other changes related to enemy AI, which is more aggressive with 60 fps, while it's like the PS2-PS3 version if you opt for 30 fps in the PC release. A lot of stuff was patched, but there's probably a good amount of minor details which aren't replicated 1:1. More expert players should know more than me in this matter.

>Arguing = people get defensive
This is true in general, but I found that for these types its more about just being wrong. Making public statements then being educated, however politely, results in the same negative response. It's too embarrassing for them to be wrong on a forum. So they double down and go more nuts.

The only people that have come to me for more info are the ones that don't talk shit. Because they just aren't like that. Not long ago I got a PM from Ubberdevil asking about Knack 2. He'd seen my posts.

The worthy will reveal themselves in time.

>do think it's healthy to get out of the echo-chamber
I don't think we're in one. At least I'm not.

I'm here not to hear my own opinions reinforced, avoiding alternative ideas. I'm here for truth. Going to another board to hear that Chaos Legion is a button smasher and Legions can refuse orders is not an alternative idea. It's an outright lie.

5does:

>Discord

Oh? I didn't think this place would be good for discussing action games in general. But like you said, it's probably only small niche servers.

>put up a decent fight

Imagine places like Reddit don't allow you to do this because of the voting system (and probably stricter moderation, at least compared to GameFAQs)?

Birdman:

>post info and wait for the worthy to come

Noted.

>PMs

I... forgot this even existed. Yes, good way to avoid a troll entirely.

>attacked by the DMC5 board's regulars over a PM

The fuck...

...oh, now that you mention it, didn't someone (on the DMC5 board, no less) told the TC or someone else to not listen to your CL input, because apparently you didn't acknowledge its flaws (to which you explained how you did)?

Raeng:

>ignoring the troll because of his responses

Makes sense. Then how would you go about convincing someone to give an almost universally hated game a try? Like FF XIII-3?

>believed the square square triangle meme

Oh, That is a surprise.

>don't judge

Hey, at least NGS2 isn't a 'bottom of the barrel tier' game, there might be some things to like (or at least that's what I think). At least you didn't spend an enormous amount of time playing Digimon World 4 (seriously, if I was able to get these hours back and use them to play the games I missed, I'd most likely have completed at least half of my current PS2 backlog, including replays. Or Hell, I could learn two or three different languages).

>balance the communities I visit

I think that won't be a problem. Most of my friends aren't into games as much as I am (the kind of people who enjoys playing local multiplayer games like sports, racing, shooters, fighters, and the like), but they do like talking about games, just... on a superficial level. Might be worth noting that they love RE4, but they mostly don't know what makes it so special, beyond having a good time just playing it on Normal. They largely don't care for KH as it's too childish looking, but they acknowledge it's still a difficult game on higher settings. One of them even have first-hand experience with one of the mid game bosses.

Alternatively, there is a small group on GameFAQs that like a bit of everything. We first formed that group to discuss about Mega Man and sometimes to vent about a (now gone) persistent troll on the MM11 board, but now we talk about the games we like and such. I think I'm the only member of that group who likes Action games a lot, unless you count someone who loves Ninja Gaiden 2 for the NES.

>build, variety of options, and routing

Heard a lot of praise for those. At least I can go in expecting to have fun with what the games excel at.

>RPG mechanics

Since I'm in a bit of an 'RPG' mood now, I'm even more eager to see how that element is handled.

>link

That's exactly the one I was looking for. Thanks.

HotPocket:

>other person is approaching it as an argument from the start

This has been the case for me in most arguments I've had. Almost everyone I've spoken to were very close minded, as they weren't expecting to see this innocent-looking game to suddenly become one of the best ARPGs around. They've been too exposed to the mash triangle to win and/or wait out for the MP bar to refill itself to use Cure and continue mashing X memes, in addition to the aesthetics. It being anywhere close to DMC is simply a lot for them to take in, so instead of taking the time to process that, it's easier to just laugh at your supposed lack of mechanics knowledge and bad taste.

>mentally exhausting

Too true.

RedShot:

>KH2's system is rich of options with a lot of pros and cons

Indeed. Once, I heard that Souls was lacking in the melee depth aspect, but magic was nicely handled. Are those statements accurate?

>Second Chance and Once more should not be on Crit

As a matter of fact, this was the subject of a topic in the KH3 board. As you would expect, almost everyone was against this idea. One of them even vouched for all new games to adopt a 'flexible difficulty system' where players could tone down the difficulty whenever they wanted to, even if the point of a 'Very Hard' difficulty is... to be just that. Pure disaster. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Osaka even tried this with that KH 0.2 demo. They patched those back in after a huge backlash from casuals. Expecting something similar to be the case with FF Origin as well.

>enemies are more aggressive on 60 FPS ports

I did not know about this. Very interesting. Care to give an example with a mob?

>plays like the PS2 version if you opt for 30 FPS

This is an actual choice? If so, I'm impressed.

>patched more stuff

Those wouldn't happen to be Magnet's extra hits or Final Firaga, right?

>...oh, now that you mention it, didn't someone (on the DMC5 board, no less) told the TC or someone else to not listen to your CL input, because apparently you didn't acknowledge its flaws (to which you explained how you did)?

I remember that. The degenerate kept saying CL had a 'laundry list' of flaws yet couldn't list many. He mentioned one or two which I countered and he blocked me, claiming I 'just wouldn't stop'. Then that other loser was like 'yeah he's biased blah blah blah don't listen'. I believe that was the anti-PM guy. They're all so shit scared of being proven wrong on a message board it's insane.

And yes, not only did I acknowledge flaws in CL, but said that no one is more critical of CL than me and even went on to list like 5 flaws. And mine were actually pure mechanics related where theirs were uninformed whining. These were completely ignored because 1: proved them dead wrong and 2: they didn't even grasp the basics so they had no fucking clue what I was talking about and couldn't have addressed my points if they wanted to!

Pieces of shit.

@Phoenix Wright

> Melee and Magic in Souls
I'd say melee weapons are pretty basic in Dark Souls 1. The most efficient option is to press R1/RB repeating the same attack over and over. Heavy attacks (R2/RT) can be useful in a particular situation but they are impractical for several weapons and your DPS would be lower than some chained light attacks. Parries and backstabs are very strong in DS1 but you can use them only against humanoid enemies and a single boss. Stamina management is important so you can't close your eyes and attack everything, especially when you are new to the game.
In DS2 you can dual-wield weapons so you have two more attacks that can be useful or not, parries were extremely nerfed (strange timing and no i-frames during the riposte animation).
In Bloodborne melee weapons are very good because each of them has a distinctive decent moveset. You can do charged attacks, you can change between two modes mid-combo and there are more combinations available. I like the ranged parry system that works well with melee attacks and the backstab must be charged (good balancing).
In DS3 there's a bit of regression and a lot of redundant weapons but some of Bloodborne's pros are maintained (charged attacks, more interesting movesets thanks to "weapon arts" that consume MP).

Magic and ranged options are pretty well done in DS1. There are several reskinned "soul arrow" attacks (a simple projectile spell), but also offensive and defensive buffs, stealth spells, close-range pyromancies, homing multi-hitting spells, AOE attacks, DOT and poison, healing miracles. Bows and Crossbows are very good to attract enemies but with the right build they can be powerful too.
In DS2 and DS3 there are similar tools with some changes and nerfs (DS2 cuts number of castings, DS3 has weak buffs). Overall they are still good enough, but DS1 is better than them.
Bloodborne is more limited in this aspect. "Hunter Tools" work as Magic, but there aren't many of them and you don't have the versatility of DS1's buffs. Firearms are ranged options that are varied enough and have some similarities with pyromancies.

> Second Chance and Once more in future games
A low difficulty is necessary for series like KH which are full of buyers who play for the "story" but don't want to lower the difficulty. Sad, but true.
FF Origin will surely have some broken stuff, I will be satisfied if it's challenge run friendly.

> 60 fps affect mobs
I don't have a visual proof, sorry. Some things are sped up, while other mechanics are "crippled".



> 30 fps on PC
Yes, it's an actual choice. I watched a speed runner going between 120-60-30 fps mid-run to do some skips. The same works for KH1.

> Magnet's extra hits or Final Firaga
I know that a lot of stuff was patched in the PS4 remaster, but I don't know if this one works as intended.

> framerate
It's sad since, as you note, Vanquish has similar issues. The original release still is the best most 'true to form' version you can play, as even the recent anniversary edition has damage values going out of wack in some instance making the game feel 'off' to me. For a novice or someone who starts with this new release this is of course fine, but there's some extremely weird ones (like the final boss's strongest attack not OHKO'ing you on God Hard, hell it barely does any damage, if you stand still).

https://youtu.be/zHBhQt-91-4

This video by Zaa is a great inisght.

Birdman:

>CL had a laundry list of flaws yet couldn't list many.

Basically 90% of the arguments I've had. The rest is exactly what you noted a bit later in your post; the ones that pretend to know what they're talking about by listing 20 or so flaws are mostly whining (party leader dying when he gets defeated, and the AI partners not carrying you through the entire game/items not destroying the game as much as FF XV does is bad design), outright lies [like claiming that KH has no stats (yes, I'm dead serious), status effects (what is Stop), 0 MP ranged options (what is Wisdom Form), Reaction Commands destroying the entire game, leveling up not making a difference, etc.], among others.

>blocked after you replied back

Yep, it is just as you said all this time. Being wrong on something about a video game is the end of the world for them. It's why they'd rather resort to juvenile insults or going full 'no u', as sometimes remaining silent equals to admitting they were in the wrong all this time.

>ignoring evidence that proves they're wrong

Also happened to me at least once. Maybe I am about to become like you.

RedShot:

>melee

Yeah, that does sound basic alright. I assume that the fact that Stamina exists is why this isn't a mindless button masher (though judging by what you said about light attacks it seems you can do so to an extent anyway, Stamina removes the 'mindless' aspect out of it).

>Bloodborne's melee

Sounds good. A shame that Magic isn't on par with DS1's though.

>Magic

Definitely sounds like something I could enjoy experimenting with. Out of curiosity, is there a reason to not use some of the builds in the game when you're just getting started with the series? Kind of like people suggest not to start with Royal Guard in DMC3 if you don't know anything about the series yet (but not sure if that statement is trustworthy).

>buyers who play KH for the "story", but don't want to lower the difficulty. Sad, but true.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

>don't have proof

Don't worry about it, I know I can trust your word on this.

>Quick Run being crippled

Ah, yes, I do remember watching that video a few years back.

>changing FPS is an actual choice
>can do so mid-run
>same goes for KH1

Interesting. I wonder if the 120 FPS option messes up with the game even further. Would love to get this if the 30 FPS versions of the first two numbered games work exactly like their PS2 versions.

>not sure if Magnet or Final Firaga got patched

Shouldn't have been. At least, last I saw a gameplay video, they weren't.

Raeng:

>framerate

SBK told me that you noticed that some bosses in ZoE2 were more aggressive in the remaster (but the original version is still worth trying). This is probably the first time I've seen the remaster of an old PS2 action game having upsides over the original. Though that was the only thing he said on the matter. Not sure if there are indeed notable issues.

> framerate
This is more common than you think. Vanquish had this issue as well. Some enemy agression/attack frequency seems to be limited in frames i.e. only attack once every 30 frames. This means in a 30FPS game, that they attack once per second. In a 60FPS game, they attack twice per second.

Vanquish had a lot of this, with Gorgies being basically foaming in the mouth thirsting for your blood in the PS4 release compared to PS3, despite the other shortcomings (damage values being super wacky).

ZoE2 is just super weird though. There's massive changes in some AI behavior and even some button inputs compared to the PS2 release. Very weird.

ZoE2's different controls stem from it using the Dualshock 2's pressure sensitive face buttons, which aren't available on xbox controllers and dualshock 4 so it had to be changed. It's like how the controls of MGS2+3 were changed for the 360 version of the MGS HD collection.

Regarding KH 30 fps - Assuming I can emulate the PS3 versions at 30 fps with no drops, is there any reason to play the PS2 version still?

@Phoenix Wright

> Is there a reason to not use some of the builds in the game when you're just getting started with the series?

Royal Guard in DMC3 is very powerful but it's difficult to use for a beginner who doesn't know the right timing. There are no techniques hard to execute in Miyazaki's games, but still I wouldn't be a sorcerer in a first run. I'd go for a quality Strength-Dexterity in Dark Souls or Strength-Skill in Bloodborne. This way you can use almost every melee weapon and experiment more with their moveset. It's also important to learn to dodge attacks from close range and you need some knowledge about spells locations to get the most of them.

Every stat is useful in these games (except Resistance in Dark Souls), a normal player usually goes for the soft cap in Vitality, Stamina and in his offensive stat. You can create hybrids of various types when you know the game. Every starting class is fine, it changes only the initial point allocation but you can choose a warrior and then become a sorcerer if you invest some souls.

> PC version
I don't own it (I play KH on PS4 for now) but it should be very good and you can add useful mods like a faster Summon animation in KH1 or the Instant Gummi which skips the shmup sections.

@GN1

> Regarding KH 30 fps - Assuming I can emulate the PS3 versions at 30 fps with no drops, is there any reason to play the PS2 version still?

They are both emulated so there could be some input delay. The PS3 version has longer Drive Form load times, but I wonder if the emulator can fix it with a SSD. I'd say try both of them and see which version seems more responsive on your PC. The PS2 version is still more "authentic" but the PS3 one has only minor bugs so it's more or less the same experience.

GN1:

>any reason to play KH's PS2 version

As RedShot noted, the PS2 version is the most aunthentic one, in the sense that the higher framerate doesn't affect some mechanics, and has faster load times than the PS3 version (an SSD probably fixes this, I saw someone claim that they were able to get very good results, but that was a long time ago, so I'd suggest to do some research first). Really, besides load times, the only 'downside' that the PS2 version has is that it's in Japanese (except for the voice acting), but that can be easily fixed by patching the game. If the 30 FPS mode of the PC version works exactly like the PS2 version, I'd say go for that one if you can.

As for KH1, I'm less informed about the remasters. I do know that you can skip cutscenes the first time you watch them (in the PS2 version, you had to lose a boss fight if you didn't want to rewatch cutscenes), and the fact that EXP Zero is a thing, but the experience isn't the same as KH2's Lv 1 setting, because most combo modifiers and some other abilities are locked behind levels, and IIRC physicals were pretty weak (except the finisher, and that could trigger the damage storage glitch). Other than that, I don't know if the higher framerate impacts some mechanics negatively, or if the PS3 introduced bugs or glitches besides the one I mentioned earlier, but as far as I know that's exclusively tied to the EXP Zero ability.

RedShot:

>RG is difficult to use for a newcomer

Now that I read a bit on how that Style works, it seems logical. I actually wanted to choose this the first time I attempted to play DMC3SE, but went with the sword Style instead (forgot its name).

>go for Strength-Dexterity in DS to be able to experiment with melee and learn to dodge attacks from close range

Noted. I'll keep this in mind.

>can create hybrids of various when you know the game

Seems like good replay value. Speaking of which (I feel like I've asked this before, but still), is there a cap for how difficult can NG+ get?

>faster Summon animation
>ability to skip the Gummi Ship sections

Sounds great. I'm slowly becoming more interested to pick this up.

Just wanted to say that I could witness a conversion. Someone who once said that he 'really disliked' KH is now willing to give it a try. In fact, said person recently got a PS2, and of all games he could've played he went with KH1. Now he's willing to keep me updated with his progress or ask for help when needed.

This is pretty amazing. I think I've said it enough times, but I'll say it again. Birdman, you were 100% correct. The worthy will come to you in due time.

That said, it should be worth noting that he's playing the vanilla version. And since his PS2 is un-modded, he can't play the Final Mix versions. Already explained that while vanilla KH1 is mostly fine, he should really try to get KH2FM and avoid playing vanilla KH2 if he could, as 2FM completely obsoleted it. He said that depending on what he thinks about KH1, he'll buy the PS4 collection. While the PS2 version is the best option, that's still better than playing the vanilla version, I guess.

So far he's having a good time. Hope this leads to him trying KH2FM.

Usually games on RPCS3 (the ones that work at full speed at all times at least) also have faster loading times so perhaps that can be mitigated as well.

I know about the English patch PS2 final mix, but PCSX2 suffers from input lag on all games because that's how the emulator is, while RPCS3 doesn't have input lag issues and feels very responsive.

About worthy people coming - I joined this forum to get to know more great action games so I guess you are right, there are great discussions for those who are looking for it. I also mostly don't care for modern games and most of the game I want to play are pre 2011. 6th gen games in particular were more creative and unique, I guess due to devs experimenting more before trying to replicate the success of blockbuster franchises?

>load time issues are mitigated via an emulator
>while also getting rid of input delay

Sounds like RPCS3 might be the best choice for you to play these games, then. Looking forward to see what is your opinion on these games.

>don't care about modern games

Mostly agree. Most of my backlog is just PS2 games, and some of them aren't even Action or JRPGs - two of my favorite genres. I think if I add up all the games across the 7th and 8th gen consoles that I want to play, it would barely match up my PS2's backlog. But I do have high expectations for some modern games like Astral Chain, Wonderful 101 (heard some bad things about the non-combat elements, but otherwise I want to play this), Knack 2, and others.

@Phoenix Wright

> is there a cap for how difficult can NG+ get?
In Dark Souls the seventh run is the hardest one (NG+6), in DS2 and DS3 you must reach NG+7, in Bloodborne it's the NG+6.
In Demon's Souls the cap is at NG+5 with Pure Black Tendency.
After reaching the cap you can continue to do other NG+ runs on the same file but it changes nothing.
In some of these games there are other modifiers that can increase the difficulty along with higher NG+ cycles.

>The original release still is the best most 'true to form' version you can play
That would be the PS3 and 360 versions right?

>whacky damage in Vanquish
I get some things could be missed in these remasters but this problem seems like something that would have been immediately obvious after only brief testing. How long did it take players to notice?

>Just wanted to say that I could witness a conversion
Beautiful isn't it?

>Birdman, you were 100% correct.
I know.

>doesn't have access to FM
That was true for all of us at one point. Shouldn't be a huge problem for the mechanically minded.
Though I'm not sure how KH history played out to the point where KH2FM is considered one of the top action games.

Was it a matter of if you played and liked KH, you would of course play the sequels and FM versions as they appeared?
Or was KH2FM found to be great much later, independent of the earlier games?

In other words, does starting with KH vanilla lead someone mechanically minded to KH2FM, or is there no such link or sign that they should continue?

>doesn't have a modded PS2
Tell him to look into FreeMCBoot. It's a programmed memory card. Once you have that you just need a DVD drive that can burn downloaded ISOs. Go buy a pack of blank DVDs and you'll have access to every PS2 game.

>About worthy people coming
I admit I was half being a dick when I wrote that. I don't mean people themselves are of less worth or anything.
It was about how sick I am of trying to talk to people about mechanics and just getting abused for it. It's better to leave people alone than argue that they're wrong for multiple pages. It doesn't work. I'm not saying DON'T put out info, but don't respond to idiots like the 'it doesn't have a jump' guy. You'll sit there explaining all the mechanics to this loser while he laughs at home and then posts that GH is a 2D game. I've done it before. Many times.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/300963-god-of-war-ragnarok/80263646?page=3#188

So, according to someone, GoW:R is better than DMC3 and Ninja Gaiden 2, and TLoU had better gameplay than DMC3.

Read post #176 to get the context, then post #184.

The ferret is way too stupid to talk to. I wouldn't waste another second on that level of mechanical blindness.

SBK already pounded him into the ground, but with individuals like this seems like a waste to be honest - just focus on the good prospects (if you know what I mean)

Call him some slurs, but on the sly. This is the way.

Phoenix has dropped a mechanics nuke in that thread. It's completely irrefutable.

Now watch as the mechanically blind scum either runs for the hills or hurls more insults.

To note it, Birdman is talking about a different thread to the one I linked before. This is the other thread:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/691087-playstation-4/80272934#50

I'm fully aware that the guy doesn't know a thing about KH (as I said in the topic). Just asked questions to expose him further (so everyone could see what he was truly after *attempt to upset me, not so much about seriously trying to defend his stance*).

By the way @Royta/Raeng , I hadn't noticed that you made an article about KH. Usually check to see new articles if you update the topic for it, so I missed it. It was unexpected to see CoM of all things being covered before a mainline title, but it was a fun read nonetheless.

> KH article
Yeah it kinda slipped through, I admit I'm not really marketing the articles as much anymore so if people see the site, they might see something new haha. Glad you enjoyed it :)

I felt I could write about KH1 of KH3, but honestly I feel like I'd add nothing to the decades of analysis (unlike Doom/DMC where I could find a niche). So went for CoM, as it was quite a memorable experience that I almost skipped due to Reddit being Reddit.

>trusting Reddit about anything vidya related
Some mistakes can't be forgiven.

Yo, Royboy. What's this about some DMCuck /cgg/er using his e-diary to argue with your articles? Some dude on Twitter getting himself banned in Zesty's chat talking goofy about GoW while sucking off his favorite weeaboo fujobait lead in a series about juggling sandbags. This one of those little bitches SBK, myself and the boys slapped around a half decade ago (still crying about it)? Goes by 'Willy' or some shit like that. Heard about this through the grapevine. Why isn't this nerd here to get dunked on? Why isn't he taking his shot at the boards at all?

First I've heard of this. Granted the forum and site always had enemies so that's no surprise. Name "willy" rings no bells though. Got a link?

> why isn't he here taking shots in public
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/coward
They can't even engage with agressive enemies, let alone a person that bites back.

>slapped around a half decade ago
Is this the FFXV guy on /v/? Dude's always crying about SBK whenever he gets criticized.

^Don't think this one is that fellow. I already slapped his shit on Reddy for being a little bitch.

^^Nah, seems the reporter was talking about two chaps. Willy is some other fuck. I'll get a profile on him in time. The other guy who has a punkass blog seemed to be replying to you without alerting you. Let's see about that link. I'd hate for you not to get the chance to see it in the event he's just talking shit on some gay little hugbox. *checks* There it is:

https://itsmorecornflakes.blogspot.com/2019/09/reply-to-raeng.html
https://itsmorecornflakes.blogspot.com/2019/09/reply-to-raeng-2.html

Now to see what my nephew wants to work through today. Hopefully there is a point (a focus) to the next few hours of my time being spent jabbering on the phone. Maybe a stream to watch and assist him towards a goal (being achieved) in Souls. That would be nice.

He went into your comment section, how cute.

Oh. The cornflakes guy.

"But even if GoW has a different focus, it's still inferior to DMC and other action games."
He gives no evidence of this.

>getting himself banned in Zesty's chat
Sounds like I missed quite a few things. Is it about W-

>Willy
Yeah, it's him alright. Really desperate for attention. He left a comment on Zim's Artemis PAIN (Part 6), then he commented on one of my vids (most recent comment):

https://youtu.be/fGA7n2luIdM

Apparently he's getting obliterated by a lot of people on the most recent part of Zim's vanilla ND run (Part 4, at the time of writing this). I think Malcar himself joined in on the fun (unless I'm mistaking that username for someone else's). Too bad I can't do so owed to Internet issues (and to a slightly lesser degree, time).

That said, I wonder if Willy would like being told that my cousin, who has almost no experience with HnS (and is the sort of usual teen who likes Minecraft/Fortnite content), made it to Vergil 2 in two days (completely blind *I know for a fact that this is true*), and beat Vergil 1 on his first try (I witnessed this, though I won't know how difficult he really is until I try the game myself). And judging by the sounds of the button presses, he must have been button mashing his way to victory. So I suppose Willy wouldn't take this lightly.

>why isn't he here to get dunked on
You probably already know of this, but as I said, he's getting destroyed on YT as is.

>can't even engage aggressive enemies
HA!

>the FFXV guy
Doubt it's the same one, but is the XV guy STILL crying about SBK after all these years? SBK must have traumatized him pretty thoroughly.

>Malcar
If you're that Hyperfist guy, congrats on clearing the ER on PAIN+ conditions.

>the cornflakes guy
Ah, yes, him. Think you also brought him up in the past, GMG (on this very topic). You mean he's STILL crying about any other game being close or on par with DMC? Pathetic.

Yeah Hyperfist is me. Tried to respond to the guy but tbh there's no reason to. He's best to be ignored, left to seethe at GoW for some reason. He's not even fun to discuss with/troll, since he either ingnores the response or repeats himself.

>is the XV guy STILL crying about SBK after all these years?
It's pretty sad to see. Everyone that contradicts him becomes SBK. His new shtick now is to shill Forspoken and get mad at Hi-Fi Rush, comparing the sales of the two games and whatnot.
There was also another guy on /v/ obsessed with SBK but he imitated him instead. He went attacking every action game that wasn't KH2FM.

>congrats on clearing the ER on PAIN+ conditions
Thanks a lot. I was doing a NUR+ and wanted to skip directly to PAIN+ just for the Loom Chamber. Overall it worked out pretty well considering that. Also inspired Zim to revisit it, which was pretty nice.

>MartinG
He's a good player but I don't understand this inferiority complex combomadders have.

MartinG creates top quality DMC content and helps anyone who asks. But I had to mute him and a few others on Twitter because I don't want to hear DMC drama.

I get where he's coming from though. I used to do similar over games I love.
But I don't see the point anymore.

> willy
In general people overvalue challenge. My wife managed to beat Murai in NG:B, despite screaming and pannicking like mad and never really holding an Xbox controller.

> KhorneFlakes guy
Every time I tweeted something he thought I was talking about him apparently, think he's not really good in the head. Eventually I just blocked him after I woke up with 15+ tweets in my inbox from him calling me names and shit. Don't waste time on that loser.

>best to be ignored
Yeah I no longer pay any attention to him. Clearly just wants attention (especially from Zesty, since he's constantly mentioning how Zesty banned him and whatnot).

>everyone that contradicts him becomes SBK
Good Lord.

>badly imitated SBK
At least SBK respects other action games. Not even I would try to downplay any other action games while putting KH2 on a pedestal, despite loving the latter a lot. That said, I wouldn't want to play KH forever. Probably wouldn't stand it after a month. I want different flavors every so often.

>skipped directly to PAIN+
Oh? Did you bump into any major roadblocks for doing so? Haven't really delved into GoWII specialty runs, but I'd personally want to go through NUR+ at least once (before getting into PAIN+ properly *PAIN will most assuredly be skipped*).

>also inspired Zim
I saw his video and his comment on the matter (in your vid). Again, great job.

>Good Lord
Lately he has been seething about FFXVI, as expected.

>At least SBK respects other action games
From what I've seen he basically likes most of the big ones (he even said nice things about DMC5 which I frankly didn't expect), he just dislikes fanboyism (as it should be).

>any major roadblocks
The hardest thing was to stop relying on the Golden Fleece. The Gorgon wave is a joke in any setting other than PAIN+ since you can abuse the petrification parry, but here you have to chip them with t6, OH loops and half collisions, while also being careful not to parry the Siren's projectile since it's an instant fail (as the followup to the parry is automatic for some reason). The Saryrs were also a pain but that wave became a lot more manageable after I started switching zones in a certain way. In the end it took something like 25 hours between practice and actual attempts. I also tried to do the Translator on PAIN+ (with savestates to restart from the third wave directly) but is not fun. It's absurdly luck based and disliked by pretty much everyone.

>want to go through NUR+ at least once
Wise thing to do. NUR+ is very fun and (like for Infinity_Divide) was easier than vanilla VH for me, since I knew the strats better. Rage also gets extremely useful compared to vanilla, where if you're maxed it basically doesn't do anything.

>great job
Appreciate it.

>seething about FFXVI
I was already wondering this for a long time, but what's wrong with this guy?

>likes most of the big ones
More or less the same titles that this forum likes (Viewtiful Joe, Wonderful 101 *the actual combat*, Evil Within, RE4, REmake, MGS2-3... well, you already know).

>said good things about DMC5
Yeah, from what I have gathered by his words, it seems that DMC5 is quite the improvement over DMC4, but still doesn't compare to DMC3 (maybe not even DMC1).

>dislikes fanboyism
Just so. Also makes it clear when people attempt to call him out for being a 'DMC hater'. Says it's great, but that doesn't mean other action games don't have their place (or do certain things better than DMC).

>stop relying on the Golden Fleece
Oh yeah, I can definitely imagine taking a bit of time to adjust to this.

>Gorgon wave is suddenly hard on PAIN+
I imagined so. Not being able to use such a good options to get rid of the Gorgon Queens really changes things up a lot.

>accidental projectile parry
Oof. Which is why I assume that you want to get used to tricking via TB (so as to not press L1 accidentally owed to muscle memory).

>PAIN+ Translator
Yeah, the fight just sucks in PAIN+. Think Zim himself said it was more luck reliant than the Clone War (at least until the Priest are gone *but you must still be careful about accidental kicks towards the Translator, doing so after killing the Priests must be reason enough for certain people to break their controllers*).

>NUR+ in GoWII is fun
So I've heard. SBK also recommended it (along with GKNUR). Still not sure why I didn't ever get around to it, and preferred to stick to GoW1 instead. But I will get to it one day.

Had I done a few challenge runs for GoWII, I'd probably have started doing a bestiary for it, as well.

>what's wrong with this guy?
The lore (to my understanding) is that he was a big Versus XIII fan, but he got more attached to the project than the people involved (mainly Nomura), so when the game becme XV and Tabata got involved he flipped the script and started hating Nomura and sucking off Tabata. After this he started defending XV aggressively and shitting on other "rival" games, so KH3, DMC5, VIIR etc. I think he clashed with SBK a couple of times on GFaqs and that's why he lives rent free in his head.

>quite the improvement over DMC4
It's basically what 4 should have been. Nero is more complete, Dante is good again, the enemies and bosses are nicer and it's not half a game.

>doesn't compare to DMC3
DMC3 Dante is still better than Nero and V, but he's probably equal to DMC5 Dante (if not slightly inferior). The real problem are the enemies. With Dante you have a big moveset, most of which is good, but a lot of nuance in the moves gets lost when you can just juggle those sandbags one by one with little effort and in complete safety. Even if you try to be more daring you will rarely be in real danger. DMC3 has some shitty enemies, but at least they are always onto you, making the decision making more rewarding (plus DMC3 struck a better balance between ground and aerial combat).
Can't speak for DMC1 too much but I guess they are simply different experiences, although DMC1 is probably better in what it's trying to do compared to 5.

>that doesn't mean other action games don't have their place
This genre is already pretty small already, it's stupid to pick only one franchise to like.

>get used to tricking via TB
Yeah that was the main reason. Most of my failures in that wave were either because I accidentally parried or used TB by mistake (even Zim did it in his latest ER run, but fortunately he hit a Gorgon which was already stunned).

>just sucks in PAIN+
It's very clearily designed with AQ in mind, since you can defend the translator very effectively with it (aside from some collateral half collisions). For that reason even NUR+ isn't that bad, but PAIN+ is just a lottery.

>GKNUR
Haven't done that yet but 100 DMG full collisions sound fun.

>bestiary
It's a shame that a lot of the info out there is scattered throughout various posts on various websites. Having a bestiary helps a lot, I know I would have appreciated during my PAIN+ ER attempts.

> DMC3 dante
Yeah I fully agree the enemies, despite being ass at times, still elevate the game more than the rest in the Itsuno-series. Lusts being so agressive and enemies legit trying to kill you makes combos feel a lot more earned to me. Also quite like how Dante is a lot heavier in that game, a lot less floaty.

> This genre is already pretty small already, it's stupid to pick only one franchise to like.
In general I'm still surprised people are so willing to go to fights with eachother in a hobby that's already niche, in a subhobby that's even MORE niche.

>the lore
I didn't know most of these details. To be fair I was also looking forward to VsXIII, since that was being worked on by the KH2 team proper (before they were scattered around). But this level of attachment is not normal. At all.

>what 4 should have been
Seen these exact words being used by quite a lot of people (SBK included) when talking about DMC4 vs 5.

I heard cuhraizee fans preferred (and maybe still do?) 4 over 5, owed to tech not being present in 5 (now apparently accessible via mods).

>not half a game
You mean the backtracking? Seems like this is a pretty common complaint about the campaign. Perhaps even among DMC fans.

>roughly on par with DMC5 Dante
Oh?

>DMC3 enemies making your moveset have more meaning
Makes sense.

>it's stupid to pick only one franchise to like.
True. Even before meeting SBK (or joining GameFAQs *and later Stinger*), I felt the need to branch out to other IPs. There's only so much enjoyment you can get from a singular game (regardless if it is your #1 personal favorite), you'll get tired of it after a while. It's only natural.

>accidental TB or parry use
Reminds me of when I accidentally used magic against Ares 1 on PAIN. And having to restart that fight from the start is... ugh...

>Translator NUR+ isn't that bad
I imagined so. Guess petrification can also help in getting rid of a Priest or two.

>a lottery
Guess that explains why people would rather to just go for the win instead of practicing it, since no amount of practice can ever prepare you for the nonsense that's out of your control. Guess it would be nice to get some practice just to get the basics.

>100dmg collisions sound fun
Indeed. Destroying everything by using a very potent ammo in form of an enemy is always satisfying. What I guess wouldn't be as fun is getting so little returns from MP chests (and chipping away at things with your lowered Power%, but I suppose that's more of a concern in GKPAIN+).

>info isn't in one place
True. Guess it wouldn't hurt to make a Google Doc with GMG's grab data for GoW1. Then another for smaller stuff like magic and weapon data. Just to keep it all in one place. But that will have to wait (even if all one would need to do is copy/paste the info and that's it).

>this level of attachment is not normal
FF tends to be a giant autism magnet (like for the "FFVII house").

>cuhrayzee preferring 4 to 5
Despite the mods 4 still has some stuff 5 doesn't have (or has it but not to the same degree). The ones who prefer 4 are mostly old players however, 5 had a lot of new blood coming in into the combo scene.

>Oh?
Yeah he's pretty good, but it's owned to the fact that he has so much shit at once. Even if only 60% of your moves are good it doesn't matter that much if you have 100 moves at your disposal at any time. DMC3 Dante has proportionally a better balanced moveset, but 5 Dante simply has more.

>need to branch out to other IPs
Even GMG, one of the most dedicated people to a single franchise I've ever seen, got deep into other stuff. This concept seems to be lost on certain people.

>petrification can also help
I tried it but it doesn't work that well with unupgraded EH. It takes too much time to petrify one and you're still surrounded by lots of mooks hitting you and the translator. Using BH, CR and AQ is the better strat.
On that note, was suprised to see Zesty beating it in PAIN+ in less than 20 minutes. And to think he was a combocuck not even 6 months ago.

>that will have to wait
There's no rush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnAO_eCPdBk

Well, here it is: the people officially want their Simon Says: Bob It Simulators. This is what people think the best combat system is, so it makes sense that every game that comes out now is about muh parries rather than interesting offense.

Ah yes. "Combo strings". Love that he basically admits that he never tried to learn any attacks and just went for auto-combo.

I just reached him talking about Style letters and just realized...he's gonna say something about Doom Eternal right? Has to be. What's a video like this without some Hugo Martin dickriding?

I fucking press right on my keyboard to fastforward 10 seconds and immediately get "RUN AND GUN: DOOM ETERNAL". Can I get an amen? I think I've accended into knowing how these morons think. Love how the gameplay literally starts with him whiffing two upclose shotgun shots. Cherry on top.

Number one has to be Posture right? Or just "Sekiro, in general". I know they already had a parry award near the start but this is a video of such quality there has to be a double take. Right? Let's see.



I hate my life

So basically his picks for the best designed combat elements are:
-combat minigames in a turn based RPG
-slowmo shots
-low risk high reward counter
-gimmicky weapon swapping
-one button offense one button defense combat
-MMO shit
-babby's first fighting game combos
-(ineffective) variation meter + juggling potato sacks
-mobility in a FPS
-parries with a 30 frame window, bonus points for "It makes you FEEL like a badass"

Utterly embarrassing.

This is an outrageously subjective topic and the video was always going to be a disaster. There are some genuinely weird inclusions here though.

- No disrespect to Paper Mario but anyone putting Mario Party-esque QTE/mini-game combat in their top 10 list is insane
- Stranglehold is cool but I don't think shooting people in the dick justifies 9th best all-time combat design
- Obligatory Souls mention
- Obligatory Souls mention but admittedly one of the more interesting ideas from them
- Arkham games have always looked dull and underwhelming to me but I've not played them, so can't really give an opinion on these
- That Final Fantasy MMO UI is absolutely hideous - how does one enjoy playing with all the text and icons vomited across the screen?
- Fighting game combos have existed for about 30 years now, but DBFZ has the best ones because they are the only ones you bothered to learn? Erm, okay?
- Obligatory Style Meter mention
- I love Doom Eternal but it's easy to include when nearly every other game in the genre for the last 10-15 years has been dull as dishwater
- The other obligatory Souls mention

A nice mixture of shit we expected with a few genuine mad-lad wildcards thrown in.

>auto combo
Makes sense when you consider how many of these dipshits always go on about MUH COMBOS yet they  can’t perform any of the shit they regurgitate in YouTube videos.

>Hugo dickriding
Hugo is a cool guy but yeah, him being idolized is weird.

>PARRIEZ so good they’re on twice
Naturally.

>one button offense one button defense
I genuinely find Arkham combat to be the worst thing ever, partially because it’s awful, but also because of influence it’s had over the genre and what people think is good combat.

>makes you FEEL like a badass
All these people care about is feelings since they can’t objectively examine mechanics.

>stranglehold 9th best combat system of all time
It makes you FEEL like an action movie star.

>UI is absolutely hideous
More stuff=more gooder. Duh.

>combos have existed for 30 years but DBF is the best
Especially weird considering the game is known to be extremely bad in the variety department.

>shit we expected plus random turds
Imagine if he put a left field title in there like ZoE2 or God Hand. Oh wait, those games are actually good and not full of trends.

So, another sufferer of mechanical blindness?

> gimmicky weapon swapping

hey the tricked forms system is actually neat!!!


but yeah this video is not really good, the problem with Sekiro is that nowadays people tend do prefer immediate doses of dopamine (the combat SOUNDS good, the combat LOOKS sick and FEEL nice to control. That's all what matters in mainstream games unfortunately) than interactive mechanics and properties of the gameplay

I think it's very important to have a polished and impactful combat (there is not just one way to do that so it really depends on the game, like, I wouldn't want Hi-Fi Rush to share NG2 animations lmao)

For instance, I don't like DS2 combat, everybody talks about how good is its build system but the basic combat is so bad that I can't even think about what i'm building

In Sekiro, most of the people creates a fake narrative where "Sekiro has a lot of depth, less is more! If you want to juggle and combo with a complex combat system, go play Devil May Cry! Sekiro is simpler, lacks in diversity, but ACTUALLY, it's TIGHT gameplay..." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL3FWljFEjk&t=17s go look the comments in this video)

This narrative is created to give them (players) an actual reason to play the game instead of just say "yeah i love sekiro combat because it's very satisfactory" (and this take is way more valid than the former). It's just that FS translated their excellent gameloop (imo) in a """pure""" action game, the learning curve is great because of how "trial and error" works in soulslike games, and I can appreciate that, but the ceiling is really low in comparison to the floor (I didn't play Sekiro a lot but if I boot the game NOW i'll feel like I know everything i need to be either effective or creative in this game)

it's a good combat, but FS brainwashed the world with this swordsman bop-it simulator lmao

>stranglehold 9th best combat system of all time
Just pretend that he misspelled Vanquish as "stranglehold" and also accidentally used the wrong footage at that part of the video

>Arkham
Arkham combat is actually great. It's easy as hell, but those games are easy by design. Playing for score, either to get faster XP or just for fun in the optional challenge arenas, is a blast. There's a good reason it has a million inferior copycats.

> arkham combat
I'm with Rorc on this one, though maybe I'm also biased since I"m a huge batman-nut. The combat is quite elegant with multiple combat options, OHKOs, enviromentals, gadgets - it's a lot of fun to derp around in and also has a fun set of combat maps with score systems as Rorc noted. There's a good reason a lot of companies (badly) tried to copy it.

> people want to feel good, not be good
I think that's the biggest draw. A lot of attention went to the parry in Sekiro feeling good, without actually making you that good if you get me.