The Vent Club

> Easy Auto
Ironically a lot of casual streamers played Bayo2 that way, and I know two adults that did the same. Some just want to press buttons and see shit happening.

>ironically
>ironic
>opposite of what is expected to happen
Is it though? Is it, really?

>Bayo 2
HA! HA! NintenDON'T know how to make a good demon design to save their lives. What the fuck happened? Needed to wait another decade so AI could do it for them? *kek* At least new summons followed the same style as in the past. Think angels were alright, too.

>see shit happen
Mashin', son. Mashin' never changes. Hwoarang and Eddy knew this well (in T3). Roll that face on the controller to see things happening? For the birds. Let me me just spam a button. Now I just need a controller with Turbo to hold it (let the magic happen). Better still? A fucking movie.

Saw another doozy on r/characteractiongames today: Apparently that sub has devolved into a lot of negativity of people bitching about soulslikes, so they made a new rule against genre-bashing in an understandable attempt to course-correct.

Then there's a dude in the replies whining how rules like this harms the state of games, and how it's just not far action games aren't as popular as soulslikes right now, but when challenged to play more games, he just keeps repeating that there aren't enough games to play and indies aren't as good and we need more big shiny AAA games like DMC5.

It's wild how fans of these more niche gametypes are so prone to the same kind of AAA consoomer brainrot as the gamers they claim to hate lol.

Yea the souls hate getting too far, and clearly looking down on indies when there's gems among them.

Shmup fans know how it's to not get big releases for over a decade now.

>AAA consoomer brainrot

I am also exhausted with souls-like games, but we are(have been?) minority even though the genre's name is well known. So I believe that we have to support indie or AA games (e.g. sifu, Hi-Fi rush, Wanted : Dead) if we want "more of those". I don't mean that you have to become a mindless consumer. But that is the only way to make other company realize that there are royal audiences for this genre.

> brainrot
I had a very high-IQ talk with a guy who said there were less than 30 action games in total. Those people are often too focused on what is and isn't a 'cag' than that they actually have fun with complex action games.

>less than 30 action games in total

The guy I mentioned didn't directly say this, but it was his attitude regardless. Basically if it wasn't a blockbuster AAA game on the cover of magazines like DMC5, it didn't count in his opinion. Everything else is table scraps to him.

>Too focused on what is and isn't a CAG
I try so hard to break people of that in the subreddit, and they just don't get it. They're so desperately afraid to admit that they're picky eaters who don't want to try something that isn't nebulously and shallowly enough like DMC, when the real answer to their problems is to branch out and try more action games.

Like, why the hell are these clowns not picking up Muramasa or Odin Sphere Leifthrasir? Or even Lollipop Chainsaw? There are so many action games even within their narrow criteria that I rarely or never see them talk about because there isn't a style meter, I guess?

>Shmup fans
Tbf, shmup fans created "euroshmup" term just to label shmups that they don't like, because they don't follow design philosophy of japanese shmups. Shmup fanbase isn't all that open to non-arcade elements in their games.

> euroshmup
That type of terminology is always dangerous imo, fighting games have 'kusoge' but that term is already going absolutely nuts. Like I can sort of see it being used for something like MvC2 which indeed feels like a bunch of random sprites thrown in a blender with wack ass music and random stages but hey it's hype as fuck. But people go and call SF6 and Tekken8 'kusoge', just makes zero sense.

All these terms are such bullshit.

>character action game
I've never heard a definition for this term that doesn't amount to "if I like the game it is character action, otherwise it is a hack'n'slash." You never see anybody talking about how much they hate character action games.

"Immersive sim" is a similar term in case of games like Deus Ex. The good ones get to be immersive sims, the bad ones are just bad shooters with lame rpg mechanics. There's no bad immersive sim, because being good is part of the definition.

>kusoge
I think SF6 can be called a kusoge. It trades a lot of the fundamental soundness of SF for the wacky nonsensical drive system. Tekken 8 on the other hand is a pretty standard Tekken game, even if heat is gimmicky.

But I don't view the term as derogatory like some do. It just means the dev was willing to take risks and experiment. MvC2 is one of the best fighting games ever made, and most of the games that imitate it fall short because the devs try to make a "balanced" "reasonable" version of MvC2 which really means "neutered"

>"kusoge"

I don`t know how westerns use this term, but its meaning is literally "bullshit game". Japanese internet community has a literal "KOTY(Kusoge of the year)" award and it is full of unplayable programs including heavy loading times, many bugs, unreasonable balancing, a story beyond human acknowledge. Sometimes it just functions as a swear, like "Splatoon3 is kusoge, it is just expansion of Splatoon 2" but not in serious manner. So "kusoge = bullshit game" as a genre is so unnatural to me. Speaking of languages...

> game terms

As an Eastern person, I can`t digest English genre names. I understand it as concepts but It feels unnatural to me. For examples, Beat`em up & Hack `n slash.  Beat`em up covers so many genres, like classic beat`em up(2d scrolling)/ 2d action adventures / 3d action games etc etc. When you specifically wanna find descendants of Final Fight, it is hard to find with "beat`em up" genre tag.

like, Sure they are all "shooters" but shmups and FPS and TPS are different. You will not see them as a same genre even though technically they are all "shooters".

Hack `n slash is... I think that it is a fault of Koreans(lol). We, Koreans, usually call "Diablo" and its clones as "Hack `n Slash" rather than ARPG. I think that Japanese are using it in same way. Even you can see interviews from Team Ninja, calling looting elements as "Hack `n slash" elements. And "character action game" is also a bit weird to us, because usually "character game" means "tie-in(licensed) game" in Eastern. So  Batman Arkham series fits into "character action game", in our sense.

In eastern, "Stylish Action Game" is mostly used for this genre, but there is almost no debating like Western. Practically, If there are dial-a-combo in a certain game, You can find reviews or impressions saying "This title includes some of stylish action like sense" with out resistant.


> Bad "character action games"

I have a list!. Castlevania : Lords of shadow 2, Onechanbara series, Samurai Maiden, Wanted Dead. There are also "it`s okay" ones like soulstice and Castlevania : LOS1. I had to play them by my self, lol.

>I don`t know how westerns use this term, but its meaning is literally "bullshit game".
Well, that's basically how it gets used by westerners, but people usually mean games being unfair or crazy, and typically of lower budget. The whole Marvel vs Capcom series fits this, but especially MvC2, which looks and plays like it was thrown together from spare parts.

You can draw a parallel to "B movies", that's kinda how I see the term kusoge used. Cheap, trashy, fun.

>I have a list!. Castlevania : Lords of shadow 2
The issue I have is the criteria. What is it that makes lords of shadow 2 "character action" but not, say, Sekiro? Is Sifu character action? Stellar Blade is a "soulslike" but it has button string combos like God of War, so is it character action?

I don't think "stylish action" is much better, I would say PN03 is more stylish than many "stylish action games". But at least I have a starting point in the idea of stylishness. I don't know what character action means at all.

Every game I like is an action game, every game I dislike is souls-like. All other genre distinction are meaningless.

>The criteria, definition of "this genre"

I will call it as just "This genre" because we all know it is same term - character action, stylish action, spectacle fighter whatsoever(I prefer spectacle fighter, though).

In my definition, "This genre" is "combat-oriented melee-centric one-vs-many action games, with high mobility". And it 'usually' features "Encouraging performative play by its system, like dial-a-combo, animation canceling, ranking systems. And also using all three dimensions, like jump/double jump/air dash, because of its persuasion of high mobility". 3 classics, DMC & Bayonetta & Ninja Gaiden all fullfill these conditions.

So in my book, Of course 2D games (Sorry viewtiful Joe) and shooters like Doom eternal/vanquish are not in "This genre". Sekiro / Stellar blade / Sifu is also not "in This genre". Sekiro and Stellar blade is mostly about 1 vs 1 fight, 1 vs 3 at best. For Sifu. It lacks of high mobility. (Honestly, other two has some mobility options like jump or dash but it is hard to call high mobility)

But You can find elements of "This genre" in Sifu and Stellar blade. Sifu lacks high mobility, but its combat situation is usually "one vs many", and some dial-a-combos. Stellar blade also has dial-a-combos. But you can see that Sifu leans more "This genre" than Stellar blade. Like, there are 'stealth action' games, stealth is the key, but there are also games with stealth action elements.

The bad ones are Musou series, because its enemy composition(counter-squad aspects) is bad for many reasons. And I believe that this series doesn't utilize high motility many times. Castlevania LOS & Soulstice is not good for melee combat aspect(their control is a bit stiff, feedbacks are not good enough). But they all "combat-oriented meele-centric one vs many action games with high mobility".

We can argue with this definition, I know that it is not perfect. but I have some points for referring it, not judged by quality … unlike most of people lol

This isn't a vent so much as asking for clarification. Seen some guy in Zesty's DMC video (not the most recent one). Said Hi-Fi Rush took several cues from KH2 (in a context where KH2 was to blame for the current state of modern gaming or something along the lines *in particular how KH2's level design is barren, somewhat open and linear, and that modern games having such map design is KH2's fault*).

For those who played both, is the thing about KH2 having similarities to Hi-Fi Rush true?

I am honestly, really, fully struggling to see the relation between those two games outside of maybe that in KH2 you have reaction-commands? And there's a few QTE-esque things in HFR but...no. I really don't see any relationship between them at all tbh.

The level design in HFR is pretty strong, lots to explore and a ton of verticality. Only downside is the arenas being the same 'big open circle' for 99% of the fights. But this isn't something pioneered by KH2.

>big open circle
Ninja Gaiden...and Devil May Cry...and God of War....

Raeng: >no relation
I was sure this was the case, but good to have confirmation nonetheless. Thanks for the input.

GMG: >all those titles that came out before KH2
Case? Proved.

NOTE: This was taken by Dante, but it was too good to not share with others. This was in a context about whether things (started out with the subject being about art) can be truly objectively bad/good.

Then this guy drops this:

https://i.imgur.com/hInCRL5.jpeg

I refuse to believe someone can really mean this, but in case it's genuine... lol (lmao, even).

Considering most casuals act like they're oxygen deprived, this is no mystery.

> Ninja Gaiden
> DMC
> having big circular arenas
GMG plz, at least pretend to have played the games. Only DMC5 and NG3RE are guilty of this.

>Royboy taking the piss
GoW: Arena and almost all 'challenges'
DMC: Bloody Palace
NG: Whatever the fuck optional missions were called

Ain't nobody said it had to be normal "campaign" zones. Boring featureless (even circular) arenas happen. I'd leave it to SBK to speak on KH2 (not my business to know what the norm is there). I forget what the situation was in some others. Think SWFU 'trials' were like this. DI's? X-M:O:W? I just can't quite recall. Quite a lot of HnS out there.

>link
I'm going to assume the lad wasn't talking about respiration, so much as pressure. I remember a DMCuck whinging about NG saying it didn't let up at all (and how that is no good).

Raeng: >no mystery
You're exactly right.

GMG: >the norm
Halls, squares, circles. For the most part. There's rarely verticality in the arenas. There ARE gimmicks present in a number of them, though (but not something that causes ringouts, the closest is a hazard you can willingly activate).

It's only in the postgame dungeon (except for the last stretch) where the arena design has verticality and is way less open relatively speaking.

>SWFU trials
The game's "Challenges"?

>wasn't talking about respiration
With those types, you never know.

>enemies fighting back is a bad thing
The absolute state of their minds.

> NG trials
Unless you're talking about the Survival Mode DLC for NG2 vanilla, again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FkHqIlFyYA

Most arena's in the mission mode re-use areas from the campaign, so plenty of walls, funnelpoints etc. Some are even mini-stages in themselves.

> DMCcuck complaying about NG having balls
Reminds me of the guy complaining an enemy attacked him while doing a combo, ruining 'hours of work'.

>NG trials
That's how they mostly look like in NGB&Σ - mostly collection of circle and rectangles. Eternal legend is just series of circle shaped arenas. Never paid attention to that due to vast amount of different enemies in that game.

Nothing wrong with rudimentary arenas. It allows enemy design and encounters to shine more, since it strips a game to its barebone mechanics. Claustrophobic and tight space can lead to some nasty and interesting situations too. Though some variety in lvl design is great.

>NGB/NGS
>boring arenas galore
Ayyyy. Thought I remembered right.

>respiration
I saw the poster. He was, in fact, being that retarded. So I did my usual.

>n-no aggro p-please it messes about my jugglin' sim
Shut the FUCK up, lil' BITCH. This is the only way to address these cunts. A firm hand.

>RO in NG
I feel like there was a little. I remember complaining about some windows in a plane level (wanting to see GT send them to their doom if aimed right).

>SWFU's challenges
Indeed. All this to say KH2 didn't invent that shit. But float it by SBK. I'm sure he will be thrilled to hear this talk.

https://x.com/pandakingex/status/1854741496328569320?s=46
Wut. Wut. Wut. Wut. Wut. Wut. Wut. Ninja gaidens philosophy is “die slower than your enemies” why would many of your moves be garbage? It’s the exact opposite, ninja gaiden is beloved for its weapons depth and usefulness, especially in 2 with the delimb mechanic which completely debunks this guy.

Alright, we can be haters here freely.

>X, formely know as Twitter
I think it might be classic "game didn't teach me". Devs didn't tell me what those moves do and how to play, then I'm not gonna use them and use only the powerful moves I know. It might not be necessary malice, but ignorance.

It's also funny to what extremes people can go with this attitude. Like i can't tell how many times I heard "You have to do this, but game doesn't teach you that!". I don't get it, they're mad that they've learned something on their own and they're gonna pretend that they don't know it just to spite on the game? It's insane, imagine that sort of attitude towards anything else.

Hate away.

But yeah honestly that post is just a skill-issue. Most NG's moves have a purpose, they're just harder to use since the situations can be dire and if you just do them without a care in the world you WILL get smacked in the face.