Random Razor's Edge thread

Yeah, I think that's a fair compromise. Reminds me of the Adrenaline gauge from the newest Assassin's Creed games.

I have not played those, got an example? :)

AC Odyssey. (It's not great. Not terrible, but not that good.)

As you keep attacking/parrying/dodging, you build up this little meter below your health bar. Said meter has a whole bunch of "segments" in which you can increase the number of said chunks by upgrading. You also have a whole bunch of skills at your disposal. Up to eight melee skills, if I'm remembering this right.

Each skill uses up a certain amount of those segments, generally 1 or 2. And you can regenerate said segments by, as I said before, attacking/parrying/dodging. But the skills also have cooldowns, unfortunately.

I can definitely see where you're coming from with your idea, though! But what if the meter was universal, and each Ninpo just took a different amount of segments from the meter? Say it has 10 segments: The fire ninpo could take 7, the wind could take 6, and the void could take 4. And stuff like Cicada surge could use 1.

Is there any way to trigger the grab kill that Ryu can do with the Dragon Sword? Sometimes when I use X>Y, Ryu grabs the dude, leaps forward, and slams them into the ground for an instant kill.

Like in this video here

It is just XY(hold)Y or >Y(Hold)Ywith the Dragon Sword. But it can be pretty hard to connect due to enemies dodging a lot. Best to do against grounded or wounded foes.

Just started Master Ninja.

Holy input lag batman, I wish I had an Xbox One right now.

Oh, and there's a shit-ton of slowdown as well.

Yeah the game really takes a dive on Master Ninja and sadly, even worse on Ultimate Ninja. This is where I originally dropped the game because it really hampers the experience to no end. Note that only the One X fully fixes it.

Just a thought: If Ryu uses blunt weapons instead of sharp ones (E.g a staff like the lunar, the tonfas, maybe knuckles or a mace), instead of delimbing the enemy, he should break their bones. The signifier for that would maybe just be a really sharp "crack" noise, and the enemy acting like they just got delimbed (falling over), and one of their limbs is bent out of shape.

The state would act just like delimbing, with the enemies moving just like they would, and the chance for an OT. The only difference is aesthetic.

Although we need some sort of SoB replacement for blunt weapons, though.

Not calling you out or anything, but thats already what they do. It was either noted in the weapon-description or an interview for NGII, that the Lunar and Tonfas hit the limb so hard it shatters and is thus removed. This is why their delimbs also have a slightly different sound in NGII.

SoB replacement is required though. I get what they tried with the Lunar but it was just a far, far worse option as a result.

I didn't even notice. I just thought Ryu was cutting their limbs off... somehow. Jesus, how insanely strong is he?

According to the VSwiki, with the Dragon-Sword, he's a planetbuster. Strong enough to shatter planets with his blade (granted, the blade does most of the work).

Attack Potency: At least Large Building level (Beat the possessed Statue of Liberty and many other tremendous demons. Has canonically taken on tanks and helicopters with longbows, etc.) | At least Mountain level (When used on Yaiba, Inazuma Drop destroyed the underground of a mountain at a equal size), higher with combination attacks (Can use a mountain-busting ninpo with a partner). Likely Country level to Continent level (Defeated the Demon Statue in the NES game which was considered a planetary threat. Capable of destroying an entire country and above using nuclear weaponry on. Also defeated the Tengu of Destruction, who dispersed a large number of clouds) | Planet level with True Dragon Sword and Dark Dragon Blade (With the True Dragon Sword, Ryu was able to kill off Vigoor and one of the Dark Dragons. Vigoor could casually cause a large series of solar eclipses and split the world in half and the dark dragons who are on par with Vigoor consumed worlds in darkness. Tengu has feats on a comparable scale as well, Ryu also fears using the True Dragon Sword because he wishes not to destroy the Earth)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ryu_Hayabusa

Planning on making a post in defense of this game.

Mind helping me out? Like, could you provide me some info, as someone that has played the game on Ultimate Ninja? I only completed the game on Normal and Hard, because Master Ninja and above are basically unplayable for me on PS3 with the input lag and slowdown.

You can always check out ShowR (https://www.youtube.com/user/ShowR18), he's basically the god of Razor's Edge. I know a lot of people like Sounddreamer, but his playstyle doesn't showcase the game in a good light I feel.

What kind of notes are you looking for? I posted quite a few on Reddit before iirc.

I'd like to see those Reddit notes that you mention. I'd primarily like info on each of the weapons, since I almost always run with the sword. So I can't really give much info on the strengths of the other weapons.

@TheFirmament1 I really liked your threads there, a lot of Uncharted and nu GoW fans went berserk haha.

Thanks! I doubt the reactions would be much different if I posted it elsewhere, though.

Also, while I actually do like Resident Evil 6 more than Uncharted, I KNEW that people would get mad if I said that it was better than Uncharted.

My thought process was "Maybe I should mention another really good Third-Person Shooter? Nah, not relevant, and it would just piss people off. But... pissing people off is part of the fun of posting on forums. Besides, this is already controversial, let's just go all the way"

I finished Uncharted 4 (PS Now free trial) some days ago and it's awful. Horrendous pacing, limited gameplay, too much useless platforming and embarassing movie-like experience. I finished U1 on Brutal, it was broken and fun but it was a decent game. U2 had some good set pieces, while U3 was more of the same but a bit boring. They were always overrated, but U4 is even worse...

The weapons are a bit of a step backwards and forwards. On the one hand, weapons are more streamlined since there are less of them and options are combined. Some like the Tonfa and Claws were combined, which makes sense, as the Claws were always meant to be the mobility weapon. On the flip side, a lot of personality per weapon was lost. Since delimb values are insanely low on regular moves, and they only get larger later in the chain, you're more looking at larger combos and which weapon can get to them faster. There are some exceptions, like 360 moves (which is why they're so important).

Weapons are more good now due to their broken UT or other mechanics. The Scythe is good because of its 360Y and the fact that it has a larger SoB (hits twice, thus destroys shielded foes too). Kusa has near infinite range on its SoB. Dual Katana has the least range and cannot be redirected, but has a killer 360Y and really fast chains that lead to delimbs fast. That's kind of how the game pans out.

Lunar is an odd weapon. Best UT in the series probably with how much damage and delimb it deals fully upgraded, practically infinites most bosses actually if you have the patience. Bonkers attacks with huge delimb% tied to it, fast, multi hitter, good stagger. Just lacks a SoB which I always found a weird balance. It still has one technically but it is a single hit and it might not even kill, making healing more difficult as well as meter and karma gain (which mostly comes from SoB).

Sub weapons are completely gone.

The beauty of Razor's Edge is that it is now fully freeform. You can cancel nearly everything in Cicada, you can stop any chain into a hold-heavy move that can auto cancel into an OT. It just flows so seemlessly once you're at an expert level of play, I cannot think of any other game that does this, even NGII.

The other beauty, and to many the downside, of the game is that it is built towards this high level play. An expert player can, using the game's mechanics, absolutely decimate entire flocks of enemies in rapid succesion. Sure those monkeys tank hits, but align them with an Imp and chain the SoB from the Imp to the Monkey, and they die in one hit etc. This is why most fights have such ludicrous waves, otherwise good players would simply run out of things to kill in seconds. On the flip side, this results in the game being insanely grindy and dull for beginners.

Is this a bit what you were looking for?

Yes, this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Thanks!

By the way Roy, got any of those notes on reddit you were mentioning?

Here are some!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/cvn11j/never_played_ngre_how_is_it_different_from_ng3/ey55fm4?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/cv4n2l/razors_edge_deserves_more_praise/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/cikobz/obliteration_techniques_are_the_animations_random/ (regarding OTs)

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/chdfjj/playing_ng2_and_ng3re_backtoback_on_the_xbox_one_x/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/cejm56/i_tried_playing_og_ninja_gaiden_3_so_you_dont/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/cc5puh/i_owe_an_apology_to_razors_edge/ (yours haha!)

Perfect! Thanks mate.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Ninja Gaiden is the opposite of DMC

Ninja Gaiden's focused on efficiency and quick kills, DMC wants long combo strings and stylish kills.

Dante is wacky, sarcastic, and chill, where Ryu is stoic and focused.

@TheFirmament1 you may want to edit that.

>Ninja Gaiden is the opposite of DMC
Exactly. So are a lot of other action games. Problem arises when toxic fans (usually of DMC) can't allow others to exist.

They really were opposites, and it even shows in their developers and in-game content. Sonia in NGII was made as a parody of Dante; emo haircut, two guns and turned into a damsel in distress. Itagaki always loved teasing DMC fans and even Itsuno himself. There's a couple of fun interviews regarding that regarding them meeting. He was/is also friends with Kamiya. Not sure if they're still in touch though.

It's a lot less present so now, but when DMC HD came out, a lot of Ninja Gaiden players got their first chance to play DMC. I still remember it happening, and the mentality is so different that a lot of players had trouble adjusting. Still recall one player playing trickster only and only attacking after he'd dodged a foe's attack, and not liking the game as a result. They really play like night and day.

You even notice it in the community. DMC fans are (forgive me) very easy to anger, speak nearly exclusively in memes and jokes, witty remarks etc. Meanwhile Ninja Gaiden players mostly stick to themselves, talk NG and life. It's really interesting to see those two communities side by side, hell Phantom Babies (DMC site) basically turned into a porn haven, while NGrealm stayed true to its goal for nearly 15 years now.

Nadster wrote:@TheFirmament1 you may want to edit that.

Thanks for mentioning that. Fixed.

Birdman wrote:>Ninja Gaiden is the opposite of DMC
Exactly. So are a lot of other action games. Problem arises when toxic fans (usually of DMC) can't allow others to exist.

Royta/Raeng wrote:They really were opposites, and it even shows in their developers and in-game content. Sonia in NGII was made as a parody of Dante; emo haircut, two guns and turned into a damsel in distress. Itagaki always loved teasing DMC fans and even Itsuno himself. There's a couple of fun interviews regarding that regarding them meeting. He was/is also friends with Kamiya. Not sure if they're still in touch though.

It's a lot less present so now, but when DMC HD came out, a lot of Ninja Gaiden players got their first chance to play DMC. I still remember it happening, and the mentality is so different that a lot of players had trouble adjusting. Still recall one player playing trickster only and only attacking after he'd dodged a foe's attack, and not liking the game as a result. They really play like night and day.

You even notice it in the community. DMC fans are (forgive me) very easy to anger, speak nearly exclusively in memes and jokes, witty remarks etc. Meanwhile Ninja Gaiden players mostly stick to themselves, talk NG and life. It's really interesting to see those two communities side by side, hell Phantom Babies (DMC site) basically turned into a porn haven, while NGrealm stayed true to its goal for nearly 15 years now.

Yeah, I really do tend to notice that it's DMC fans that are more elitist towards other action games. Especially the original God of War Trilogy. Not really sure why!

Note, I do not consider the DMC fanbase a complete bunch of asshats or anything similar. Just that my experiences with them have been less friendly than with the NG community, and more prone to jokes than serious talk. I'm positive there's a lot of good blood out there too. Perhaps in their Discord.

> Especially the original God of War Trilogy. Not really sure why!

I always found it ironic. Most Ninja Gaiden players enjoy God of War, as do Platinum Games players. Itagaki and Kamiya only considered God of War to be their true rival in the sector. It really does play fully opposite of DMC though. Ninja Gaiden and for instance Wonderful 101 have overlap in vision and gamedesign, but nothing in DMC3 for instance carries over.

I remember SBK noting that Nero was designed as he was to make him resemble Kratos more in moveset (grabs), but I never found the source of that comment. Could be remembering wrong though.

NOTE: https://kamiyatweets.tumblr.com/post/110411393445/amp
I still find this important. Many hold their online rivalry as reality, but it was just them having professional fun.

>Especially the original God of War Trilogy. Not really sure why!
It's due to rule setting, where they decide move number and some hard to do glitch define depth. Then they become toxic fanboys and feel threatened at the idea that something else could be better.

Because they're so blind, they get furious when you post hard evidence and ignore it, coming up with arguments like S,S,T spam with GoW. They disregard everything else because you 'don't need to use that stuff', while DMC has even more stuff you don't need to use to win. The same rules do not apply to them because they're nuts.

DMC fans are pretty much the usual scrubby, Gamefaqs trolls that destroy the genre, only the game they play is actually good.

@Royta/Raeng

Okay, okay, okay: I gotta laugh.

I checked out the original Ninja Gaiden 3 board for the PS3, and found one of your posts, You said: "It's a decent action game".

Fuck that, mate.

Also, I feel REALLY bad for Mr. Hayashi.

If you search really, really long, you'll find my day one post ranting about Sigma 2 as well (my first Ninja Gaiden game). Same with my original God of War 3 topic where I asked for help (I was stuck). I was really new to the genre at that point and quite 'young' haha.

NG3 is an abomination and I'm still not sure how I'll formulate my article on it..

I looked at ShoWR's Ninja Gaiden 3 (Original) videos. (I never did these trials)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd_nFbYBMdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ft0IbwdSPE

Aside from the total lack of delimbs, and repeating move strings, there's just something that feels so wrong. I can't exactly place my finger on it. I think part of it has something to do with the AI: I recall a developer for The Last of Us talking about how if they actually gave good AI that could learn from you, coordinate attacks, and flank, it would be an awful experience. So they have to kind of trick you into thinking that the AI is competent. I get the feeling that this idea was not applied here?

Also, you mentioned a "Jetfighter Genshin" bug once when talking about NG3 on the DMC5 board. Mind showing me this?

I still want to find and watch Gigue's original NG3 video. He was seemingly the only one that understood how the SoB system could be triggered on command and it made for a pretty interesting display. I could never, ever, find it though. It was a Claw combo video of the final chapter of the game.

Regarding the jetfighter, there is no footage of it sadly. Just reports of it happening, had it happen once as well.

Yesterday I found this video, I'm not sure if it's THE one but I uploaded it here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZZ63yGjAig2i7_v64nmy0-WtfX4EAVTs

DUDE. Where the hell did you find that. That's exactly the one I was talking about, I've been looking for that video for nearly 5 years now. Dear god in heaven. My motivation to spend my entire weekend writing the NG3 article just skyrocketed. Fuck me hahaha!

Haha it was very difficult to find. I had to create an account on Youku (that chinese youtube), I tried some keywords but at last I found gigue's channel https://i.youku.com/i/UNzAxMDExNjg=?spm=a2hzp.8253869.0.0
If you create an account there you can watch all his videos. I tried a lot of programs and online converters to download this video but the only useful one is "Videoder".

For a second, I thought it was gonna be footage of "Genshin turning into a plane". Was disappointed.

But goddamn, that video actually made me think "That doesn't look too bad". About Ninja Gaiden 3, of all things.

Damn RedShot, I really - really - appreciate it. Seriously, that you would go to these lengths to get that video I'm really happy man! I'm working through NG3 interviews right now, but this video is so inspiring. I wonder if they'd hoped people would play like this.

I'm glad to help. I remember in my country a vocal minority defended NG3 despite its issues. They argued mainly that SoB system could be triggered on command (like Gigue proved) and that it was a return to the NES-Era (one weapon, no puzzles, etc.) and not a proper NG2 sequel.

You are not the first to tell me that, though it could be that I simply have talked to those users. I don't feel that's a good defence since most of what made the original NES titles work, was absent (platforming for instance, stage hazards etc).

One thing I cannot put my finger on though is the numbering. It's such a small thing to focus on. But okay, hear me out.
These are the NES games:

Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword
Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom

Then there's the Xbox games

Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden II
Ninja Gaiden 3

Why a '3' and not a 'III'? Originally I assumed, maybe they wanted to keep the titles with regular numbers to not confuse them with the NES games. But NGII is still the same. It's such a weird little thing and I just get curious when I see stuff like that haha!

Maybe they just couldn't get a bloody "III" to look good or something? I don't know.

Anyway, I've been tooling around with the idea of Ryu having a weapon that's both melee and range. To rip off of one of the actually decent aspects of nu-God of War, what about a tomahawk? I don't know, a tomahawk sounds like something Ryu would use. But I probably wouldn't make the thing AoE, when it comes to ranged usage, it would just a single-target, and high damage. Ryu would then have to retrieve it to use it again. And he'd automatically switch to the next weapon. Or go hand-to-hand, which is something I'd also like to see Ryu do, considering it's obvious that he's an expert martial artist.

Maybe after every fight, he automatically gets it back.

Sounds very reminiscant of the Hatchet from Nioh 2:



I think for a ranged weapon I'd probably say "he already has the scythe and kusari-gama". The scythe could be given more 'scythe throws' like he has in NGII's wall attack and NG3's XX>Y (I think the input is). There'd have to be something to tweak it, as a fully armed ranged weapon in Ninja Gaiden could quickly wreck it. There have been ranged melee attacks in the past like Scythe or Kitetsu as noted, but they tend to hide them behind longer strings etc.

Think a Tomahawk would be pretty interesting! Though I don't feel it 'fits' his style that much. Perhaps something from here?
https://www.tofugu.com/japan/ancient-japanese-weapons/

Ooh, I'd LOVE to see Ryu use fans.

I saw that one too, would be pretty interesting. Reminds me of the moveset of a certain girl who isn't for good boys and girls.

What first sprang to mind for me was actually the Kyoshi Warriors from ATLA.

Seeing Ryu stun enemies using the wind generated from the fan simply from the force that he swings it would be really fucking cool. His light attacks would probably involve the fans being retracted.

Saw some concept art for Ninja Gaiden 3 Ryu

The weirdest thing here is seeing him with sleeves

It's weird, but strangely appealing to me. Never was a big fan of the current design in NG3.

Minor thing, but I'd love to be able to change individual voice actors for each character. Because while Hideyuki Hori's battle cries, and Kiai's are fucking classic (Although Troy Baker did a pretty good job), the soldiers/terrorists screaming "FUCK YOU!" in absurdly broad Cockney accents never gets old. It sucks that I have to pick between one or the other.

>I wonder if they'd hoped people would play like this.
Can't access. What do you mean? What happened in this video?

Basically a player being really good and knowing how to trigger SoB's on demand, something barely anyone understood. He manages to make NG3 look decent. It is a really old video that I lost, shook the community (what was left of it) when it hit. RedShot found it for me!

It will be implemented in the future NG3 article through my YT channel, so you can watch it then.