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101Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Wait.
So does this info mean the game is actually good?

Has the community been trashing it for years only to be wrong the entire time?

I remember saying that since it's so hated, it's probably good and I'll like it. Was I right?

102Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:33 pm

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
EDIT: Wait, were you talking about Ninja Gaiden 3, or Razor's Edge? I thought you were talking about Razor's Edge, and Ninja Gaiden 3 is still terrible.

Yes. It is good.

The mechanics of this game are the best they've ever been in all the Ninja Gaiden games, and I think that when the game's pieces all fall into place, it's the best combat system ever made, period. But the problem is with all the big asterisks. A.k.a The most linear level design in the series, trivialized platforming (moreso than Ninja Gaiden 2), less weapons (No Tonfa, Vigoorian Flail, or Enma's Fang/Dabilahro, but the existing weapons are all pretty great), not as much weight behind each string that you pick, combo-breaker enemies that embarrass Bayonetta 2's, the myriad of glitches, and the performance/input issues on Master Ninja and above (They're generally fine on Normal, and Hard).

Lots of asterisks, I know, but the core mechanics are so good, that it actually makes these issues worth slogging through.

Also, @Royta/Raeng, how would you feel about the ability to Cicada Surge out of a dodge's endframes by holding down L1 (while dodging) and hitting jump? As it is right now, it only works when Ryu is blocking, and he doesn't immediately go into that stance after a dodge, so now and again when I try to use it, I just end up jumping up.



Last edited by TheFirmament1 on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

103Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:54 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Note, he makes VANILLA NG3 look good, which is still a trash game with a lot of problems. Razor's Edge has always been the 'fantastic combat stuck in a bad game' title.

> cicada
I think it should be doable whenever in the next game. In the air, during combos, just make it a 'free input' as it were. Might require it to be a different input. I'd go as far as to say it should be a baseline ability.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

104Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:53 pm

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
It's a shame that the new traversal abilities in NG3 and RE were never used to their fullest potential.

Like, that slide dodge for getting underneath small gaps, and the knife climb could've been used a lot more for, say, more open levels, with tons of secrets like NG Black, as opposed to just QTEs, and the occasional hidden crystal skulls.

105Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:06 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The slide and climb were cool, but they also felt very singular in the way you'd use them. I think something like what we're seeing in DOOM:Eternal's wallclimb is better, that you can actually do things on them or go from one to the other.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

106Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:12 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Tried out the claws, and Jesus Christ, these things are fun to use. Seeing Ryu blitz the fuck out of everyone by combining martial arts and blades is just such a delight.

But I'm still running into a wall with the White Alchemists on Master Ninja (Not Ultimate) difficulty. Any tips on how to beat them with claws? And what are the best strings to use?

Also, Wind Blades are just fucking broken in this game. Whenever I need some health, I just run away for a second to get everyone in a group, cast it, and then proceed to SoB/OT everyone that got hit by it to refill the Ninpo gauge.

107Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:11 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Random question: What sort of combat OST do you think would fit future games, or this one? I know it also depends on what levels that we're currently in, but just in general.

This theme is good, but not intense enough for general combat I feel, this is also good, but it sounds... too tense? And not oriental enough? While I think this one could work for general use, I don't think it's oriental enough, either.

108Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:21 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
For Ninja Gaiden I always felt most of the combat specific tracks weren't really good baring some exceptions like the original Doku theme. I really thing they could benefit from some more classical styled music like Ninja Gaiden III's themesong or something like what was played in the Volf stage in NGII or the infamous "Fighting Soul" track from that game; good twist on metal. Feel the stage tracks in the games were always excellent though. But things like Genshin's theme generally make me cringe.

The weird music in NGIII or what was added in NGS1 never sat right with me honestly.


https://stinger.actieforum.com

109Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:15 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Any tips for dealing with White Alchemists on Master Ninja? I decided to restart Day 2, but it's been a while since I last played. I'm using Claws/Scythe/Sword.

I was unpleasantly surprised to learn that they can block your Steel on Bone.

110Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:11 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
They'll only block it if they have their shield up. With the sword XX>YYYY is a good combo against them, as is XXYYY. 360Y into a hold-Y is fantastic as well. Stay on the move at all times, end every attack with a dodge. Try to avoid Shurikens if possible.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

111Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:24 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Surprise surprise, the next article is going to be about Razor's Edge and I really need to start playing this title again. Popped it in for a bit today and forgot just how excellent it is. Going to be interesting to write about.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

112Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:48 pm

RedShot


C-Rank
Is it true that alchemists were more coordinated in the original release?

113Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:24 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
What do you mean with 'coordinated'?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

114Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:16 am

RedShot


C-Rank
Some time ago I read that they were smarter in the base game. They attacked and moved like a group, defending each other. It was hard to break their formation.

115Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:32 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I'd like to see the source if possible, but I don't think that's true. The only thing they removed was that enemies could beg for their life.

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116Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty all the talk all the walk on Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:57 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
D-Rank
Back to Trials a.k.a Mission Mode, I set a goal to clear 50 missions on my own with the secondary characters. Seems modest enough. Playing Kasumi as if Hayabusa is odd, aside from sweet Izuna drops. Any short pointers for a Black vet? I know II too, but with no high regards. Heretical thanks, hehe.

117Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:30 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Kasumi's biggest strength is her grab. She can instantly cancel connected and blocked hits into a grab that sets up an SoB chain, fantastic stuff and great for killing whole groups. She also has Cicada iirc which is worth it. Be sure to level her up first in Chapter Challenge, otherwise you cannot play using her properly. Her projectile is decent, but not fantastic.

I think her Heavy string is best against bosses but my memory is hazy on that.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

118Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:58 pm

RedShot


C-Rank
@Raeng It's somewhat difficult to find the source. I've read it on an Italian forum but the thread is no longer online. In my country a small community of action gamers defended NG3 when it was released, but I wasn't into this genre at that time. I've watched some good players play the first level of NG3 and I can't see a bad game, even if NG2 has many more weapons. I'd like to play it to see if it is so bad. NG3RE seems the best version on every aspect, but at the same time it's a NG2.5. A game based on fans' feedback, not a truly creative work.
It's just my impression and I know it's an unpopular opinion around here (and everywhere else), but as an action game I think it can provide at least some fun.

119Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:41 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Give it a shot is all I'd say, I've probably pumped in more hours in vanilla NG3 than I'd care to admit and it certainly is an ambitious title - but I'd also say it isn't what we'd like to have. Calling NG3:RE NG2.5 is doing it a disservice imo. Let me know what you think of the game when you try it.

Regarding the AI, I do believe that's hogwash pardon my words haha!

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120Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:01 am

Birdman


Moderator
I don't know what it is, but everything I hear about NG3RE makes me want to play it as my first serious NG game.

121Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:46 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
You know damn well what it is. You're a sucker for an underdog Razz

https://stinger.actieforum.com

122Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:11 pm

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
If there's a guy that would figure out how to trigger SoB in the original NG3 on command over here, it'd be Birdman.

123Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:12 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Nawh. He talks tough, but I'm sure even he'd go screaming towards the hills at the sight of Vanilla NG3's Master Ninja mode. That stuff was so broken. (Yes, this is a challenge haha! Razz )

https://stinger.actieforum.com

124Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:44 pm

Birdman


Moderator
I'll start looking for a copy.

125Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:03 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
This is going to be good. The PS3 version is slightly better of Vanilla NG3. Game should be dirt cheap.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

126Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:32 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh boy

I'll be following this one closely. If Birdman somehow manages to do it (Good fucking luck)... I'll take back almost everything I said about the game, and actually reinstall the damn thing.

127Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 am

Birdman


Moderator
I feel like I've had this discussion about Steel on Bone before. Wasn't the case that in vanilla NG3, it's a random occurrence?

128Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:49 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Semi. There are methods of increasing the %, and some of the DLC weapons have a much higher chance, but technically you're left to the game's whims. If you want the vanilla experience I'd say get NG3 (not Razor's Edge) and only use the Dragon Sword. The Claws and Scythe were added later and were basically easy mode sadly.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

129Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:13 am

Birdman


Moderator
So it's confirmed to be a percentage based thing?

Why are you lot entertaining the idea that there could be a way to do it on command?

Pretty sure after all this time, if it were possible someone would've found out by now.

130Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:35 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Because I refuse to believe that Team Ninja made the core feature that their entire combat system is built upon be a random event haha. Let alone structure all fights around it (hence massive waves of foes). There was a lot of speculation in the first month on how to trigger it, but we couldn't find it. Best setup we could find was making a foe bloodied, using a shuriken, sliding into him an pressing Heavy Attack, worked 'sometimes'.

> if it were possible someone would've found out by now.
Doubtful. The game was played for about a month when the Scythe DLC hit which wrecked the game so nobody tried to learn it. When that happened Razor's Edge was announced which released around 6 months later. Vanilla NG3 barely got a community effort and most avoided Steel on Bone since it was unreliable (even when it activated there was a chance the game would glitch out, the animation would fail, and you'd be in recovery frames and get demolished).

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131Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:04 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>refuse to believe TN would
But isn't NG3 bad for a ton of other reasons? What's one more? Doesn't sound like they did a good job of the game in general.

>RE announced
That explains a lot. Most would've jumped ship then.

I'll look into it. Go through a process of elimination. Sometimes it's a matter of asking the right questions. I still feel like it would've been found by now regardless of RE's announcement simply because I've never come across a mechanic in any game that was so mysterious and hard to find out how to do.

Then again, not a soul knew about Genji's directional attack system and how to do all the variations and their rules until I broke it down. Not to my knowledge anyway, as there was nothing online and this was years after release.

Still looking for a copy but only when I pass by an EB Games while working.

Answer these:

>Is Steel on Bone present in RE? If so, how does it work?

>In vanilla, what situations have you seen it work in?

These will tell me two things; was it fixed in RE, which may confirm that how it works in vanilla was probably intended, and what situations you HAVEN'T seen it work.

That last one will be clearer once I've played it but it'll still give me something to think about while I'm bored to death at work.

132Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:17 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
You read the article, so yeah they made a lot of different choices that didn't resonate with any audience. It was the typical 'this is what the west wants' and they faltered, badly.

> answer these
Yes lord!

> steel on bone in RE
It works very differently. It can now only be triggered by pressing Heavy attack when a foe finishes a grab with a red-aura attached to it. Doing so will start the chain now. The chain is now also limited to your weapon level - so a level 1 weapon only chains twice and then it stops. Ironically since the game is so rushed, you can glitch your way into the original coding with some inputs and you have infinite chaining again, but that is not intended.
Steel on Bone now also heals you ever so slightly and builds lots of meter. You can also bait it more easily (certain inputs like charging UTs and healing, both not present in vanilla, trigger foes to do the grab that allows for SoB).

> SoB in vanilla
The ingame tutorial notes "mash heavy" but I've also seen it randomly appear from a light hit. I've seen it happen after dodges, after blocks, anytime anywhere. Never could find a rime or reason. The only one was as noted using shurikens to stun a foe and dodge into them. This would rarely send them into a juggle state where pressing Triangle allows for a free SoB...sometimes. Sometimes it happens. Other times not. Other times Ryu does the animation but the SoB chain doesn't happen and the enemy just takes damage (Kind of like a phantom hit?).

That last part is in both games by the way. I think it is a pathfinding issue, or something with triggering the SoB animation, but Ryu can at times activate the 'move' that transitions in the SoB chain, and just have it not do anything. Really weird.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

133Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:36 pm

RedShot


C-Rank
@Raeng I trust your judgement and if you haven't seen better alchemists in the first version then it's probably a false claim. If I can get NG3 at a cheap price I still want to try it. I'm sure there are worse action games than NG3 but maybe I'm too positive haha.

By the way I know there are 2 dlc weapons. Are they free or you have to pay for them?

134Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:53 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The DLC weapons are free to use in the campaign, but you have to pay to use them in the Trials. Honestly I'd say play without them as they just crush the game's balance.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

135Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:13 pm

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
>Implying that Ninja Gaiden 3 has balance in the first place

136Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:06 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
You're right. To put it better, NG3 just lacks any sort of challenge since the DLC weapons have OHKO answers for every enemy, which the Dragon Sword lacks. That and the Scythe's SoB is so much better than the other weapons in the game it is ridiculous.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

137Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:29 pm

RedShot


C-Rank
So is the Scythe's SOB easier to do in NG3? You can predict when it works, am I right? These DLC weapons seem much more powerful and maybe they weren't tested enough. Are weapons more balanced in RE? I know the SOB is very different, but I mean their full moveset.

138Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:38 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The Scythe has a higher chance to SoB %-wise, but it is also the only weapon that can do it in the air and its chain-range is nearly 5-times that of all the other weapons due to how wide the animation is. You can SoB whole rooms with the Scythe:




The reason DLC weapons are so good in Vanilla NG3 is that they start maxed out, unlike the Dragon Sword that gets upgrades every few chapters. For instance you don't get the OHKO method for Alchemists with the Dragon Sword until the 6th chapter iirc, while the Scythe starts with it because it is fully upgraded.

> weapon balance in Razor's Edge
They are all pretty balanced and have unique quirks. The scythe is still absolutely overpowered though and stands head and shoulders above the rest. It has the best SoB still thanks to its animation and has a fully invincible move that also happens to be the highest damage move in the game. If you want to learn the game, avoid using this move:

https://stinger.actieforum.com

139Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:07 pm

RedShot


C-Rank
I don't understand how a very talented team can do such basic mistakes. Ok, Itagaki wasn't there but I think they don't need him to correct maxed weapons or that OP Scythe's move.

140Random Razor's Edge thread - Page 3 Empty Re: Random Razor's Edge thread on Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:22 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
To be fair, Itagaki's games had huge balance issues as well - while not on the level of the Scythe's 360Y in NG3RE, still pretty broken stuff. So it isn't that weird for it to be in there.

But yeah this is definitely broken.

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