Random Razor's Edge thread

Yah, it’s definitely different. It’s not as great as 1 & 2, but I’m finding it enjoyable. The combat feels off sometimes...almost like there isn’t enough to do...or maybe I haven’t found the subtleties yet. But yah, the storytelling got a bit dramatic. Will let you know how Master Ninja goes.

Side note, the gameplay felt better after installing it. I also have 3 weapons now rather that just the dragon sword, so they must’ve patched those bonuses in there.

I finished Mentor mode, I didn’t realize there was a Day 8 so took longer than I thought.

> Master Ninja
I started this tonight. I only got to the first eagle of Day 1 (3 really long battles)

First Impressions...
Pros:
- It is difficult
- High tension discovering each new wave of enemies
- Awesome sense of relief upon completing a full battle
- Interesting new mix of enemies

Cons:
- It is not always difficult for the right reasons
-> Input lag and general framerate drop, which is new to Master Ninja
-> Getting grabbed immediately after obliteration attack...seems unavoidable sometimes

I will continue, but had to stop for tonight. Will see how it goes!

Yeah the DLC weapons were added for free a few months after release. Note that they absolutely butcher the game's balance for numerous reasons. For one they start out at max-level, so early-on roadblocks like Alchemists are a lot easier with the OHKO tools they offer. 

The difficulty is personally the highest the series has ever been. Beating that game on Master Ninja pre-DLC is still one of those things where I think "just how the hell did I do that". Absolutely bonkers, especially some of the later bosses.

NOTE: be sure to keep tutorials on, the dinosaur boss is a hell without the QTE notifications.

> grabs
Unavoidable sadly. OTing only gives meter here though so better to just avoid it unless it is 100% safe, since you lose all your meter after a fight anyway and some fights have meter-reduction (since they didn't want you getting Ninpo in that fight).

> Tutorial
Understood, learned my lesson in that in Day 2 Hard when I had to stop playing for a few months due to getting stuck on a wall over and over again.

> Obliteration Technique
I’ll try to use this less yah. I like the ninpo though, saves my butt sometimes. I think I lack the skill in this one so far. Will keep practicing while fun.

I was able to clear day 1. The second half of the level felt easier than the first half.

I'd be interesting to hear your opinions on the game after you've finished it on Master Ninja and then played Razor's Edge (can just be on the same system). I still feel it's one of the most insane quality jumps I've seen in a single game's re-release since forever.

Sounds good, will keep at it and let you know. I do own RE on PS3 as well...and the Wii U. Not sure if there are differences across the platforms.

I endured the alchemist fight on Day 2 for 1.5 hours today. Finally came up with a decent divide and conquer method, but man that fight was insane. Felt good to get past that.

Yeah that fight was absolutely brutal, sadly negated by the DLC weapons which have OHKO attacks against them, so good that you did it the 'original' way haha! I remember at launch this was 'our strategy' haha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpuedV8Ej7I
Barely worked.

> WiiU vs PS3
WiiU is a tad harder iirc but don't quote me on that, PS3 has an extra costume if you have a Vanilla NG3 savefile on that system.

Oh nice, thanks! That is the move I used the most because it would knock the guy down 50% of the time. But you can Wind Run technique to an immediate flying swallow at close range!? I have to try that!

I’m not used to shouting profanity like “oh that’s BS”, but it happened a lot in this fight. If there is one thing this game is teaching me, it’s to be even more methodical with my combos. I’ve always pre- buffered button presses in some cases and I know the game is very forgiving with too many presses for things like the Izuna Drop, but I’m trying to unteach myself that a bit now.

The game is strangely very focused on being able to kill enemies as effectively as possible, which has a sort of charm to it. But due to the giant waves on higher settings it can get insanely monotonous, at least to me personally.

It had a lot of cool ideas though, like the aformentioned WindRun into FS which looks hella cool. I also quite liked that they turned the Flying Swallow into a grab.

Holy moly, just got power back today for the first time in 6 days. We had a crazy storm and the state was not ready for it. Hopefully will find some time to get back to this soon.

I also quite enjoy the flying swallow grab! I also understand the monotonous feeling in the game. I had that when I played at launch...and still do at times. It gets a tedious at times.

Got back to it tonight now that we seem to be settled with power. I finished the rest of day 2 MN. Wasn’t too bad, the helicopter boss battle was pretty easy.

On to Day 3. It is infuriating on the 3rd fight just after the dogs only fight. I have started to practice Wind Run -> Wind Path -> Flying Swallow move from that video linked above. It seems to be the only way to do this fight...so now I’ll try to master that for awhile. I’m sure I’ll get it down, I was able to get multiple waves down a few times.

I had a video in the past where I showed the optimal way of beating all the enemies in the game in a single attack, I probably still have it somewhere. The game really boils down to that type of playstyle sadly down the line. Especially when the game starts throwing Alchemists at you in waves haha.

You're a brave man.

Fuck me can you imagine that this game shipped with Move support?

> Move support
LOL, now wouldn’t that be some shit. I’m pretty sure everything in my living room would be broken by now.

> brave
Maybe, maybe dumb haha. I feel I need to experience all versions for some reason...probably because I really enjoy the series. I do wish this game had a bit of adventure to it though. There is no reprieve from onslaught lol.

The series really went all out on its emphasis of pure combat down the line. Razor's Edge is honestly even worse in that respect, just fight-fight-fight. Good on you to give it a go though, most of us either played it at launch and gave it way too many chances, while most these days just skip it outright. Though it isn't a good game imo, it is good to experience it as a fan of the series.

Been playing this in Master Collection and have a quick question: using the kusarigama's grab move (>Y) doesn't always cause the grab to occur, has it always been this way or is it a glitch with MC?


Found this the other day, probably the best Razor's Edge player I've seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DL-e817k7o

> kusa
IIRC that was always an issue in RE.

> player
I remember him, used to be called CMdevilz iirc. Great player!

>Kusa
Huh, do you remember if there's a way to get it to connect consistently? Even when enemy's are weakened (all bloody) it doesn't connect reliably. I'm finding it a bit frustrating....

1.5 years later, I finally picked up the PS3 vanilla version again. I went nuts on it this past weekend. I finished out my Master Ninja run and started taking on some of the trials. I must admit, I really started to have fun. The enemies are definitely cheap sometimes, and the game occasionally misses some of my button presses entirely, but other than that, it was enjoyable! I didn't use the dragon sword exclusively, but I did try fighting the same enemies with different weapons. I used the claws the least...though they're good against alchemists.

I finished all 20 acolyte trials and the first 15 mentor trials; seems like I'll be able to finish at least the mentors solo. I'm hoping to do some online trials for the harder difficulties, but we'll see if I can find anyone mad enough to try them with me. If anyone here wants to try, let me know! I'll likely be messing around with solo trials and starting an Ultimate Ninja run soon.

You mean Vanilla-Vanilla? Or just the original release of Razor's Edge?

Afaik I beat all the trial up until Master 4 solo in Vanilla using just the Dragon Sword, by that time the Claws and Scythe hit the streets and the game's balance (such as it was) evaporated.

The entire game has been solo'd at this point by two users from what I recall, though UN2 solo took nearly 40+ minutes.

Yah, back at Vanilla-Vanilla lol (I'm still a weirdo). I got stuck on a fight in Day 3 Master Ninja and got burned out. It was right after I had finished going really hard on NGS2. I picked it up fresh recently and got past the fight I was stuck on within a few attempts and just started rolling through the game.

It's interesting that some of the techniques that work in the game don't work in the trials, like WR -> WP -> FS. I'm actually digging the feel of the trials so far, though. Good to hear that you can make it pretty far or even all the way through them solo! We'll see how that goes haha.

Side note, the sword is all I've played trials with so far. I got it up to level 9 over the weekend. Looking forward to see what the NG2 bosses are like in the trials as those are next!

Yeah the later trials (UN1, UN2) really need Claws or Scythe for the easier options in dealing with Alchemists. Fact that Claw can OHKO them pretty easily with just a single Y input is very potent.

What's your take on the SoB system in this version?

> trials operate differently
IIRC at level-10 you start to get a similar set of options as Ryu, but differences remain. Funny fact, you can absolutely wreck the game in co-op by spamming bow with both players. Bosses don't know how to react.

> day 3
The worst chapter imo, paired with the imfamous truck-race near the end of the game.

Note that the trial mode is even better in Razor's Edge imo and it's the highlight of the game. It has a shit-ton more and you can play them with all chars. Great stuff tbh.

> SoB
I dig it sometimes, other times I'm perplexed:
* I really dig weakening an enemy into a RW SoB (especially scrub soldiers who only need a single shuriken to get them ready).
* I find the easiest weapon to chain SoB with is the scythe, the sword seems to just not do it sometimes.
* It took me awhile to realize that sometimes chaining wasn't working because it makes you slice into the next enemy a couple of times before it would trigger on them.
* Some enemies (looking at you beret dudes!) will grab you in the middle of chaining SoB, not cool.
* I know it's annoying to have SoB blocked because it kills the chain sometimes, but I don't mind it...makes you plan in other ways.

> claws: alchemists
holy crap, agreed. it's so good. It's really all I've used the claws for, though I did see you can cheese Regent with them too.

One of the things that is really goofy about the game is that Ryu will target enemies waiting around for OTs with various combos, very frustrating at first, but eventually I got used to it.

At first, I really didn't like the game, it felt repetitive and the combat was boring. But what I realized is that I was making the combat boring by playing a little too timidly, expecting 1 or 2 enemies to approach at a time. This game is not like that, it's a swarm of enemies attacking all at the same time. Once I broke out of my "block often" mentality, I started to have a lot more fun by running around, stunning and separating enemies to get some isolated attacks. WR became my friend way more than usual. I'm wondering how this will make me play in the older games when I do eventually go back.

> RE Trial Mode
I definitely intend to move onto that game after this one. Looking forward to it. I have so many versions of NG3, I even have the Wii U version to play at some point lol.

I had a bit of time tonight so I finished the final 5 mentor trials (NG2 bosses). Zedonius and Volf weren't bad, but I had trouble against Alexei, took me 5 tries to beat him. Some of the moves don't work like it did in NGS2 (like WR over the lightning slam move) and the camera is atrocious lol. Elizabet was easier than I expected (also terrible camera issues, but not nearly as bad as the Alexei fight), got her on the first try.

It seems like you don't have to re-block against some of the moves like I remember having to do in 2. I'll have to play around with that a little more.

> level 10
The sword is almost level 10, so close...so if you mean that, I'm looking forward to getting even more skills with it. I might just go through acolyte and mentor on the other weapons first to level those up to 10 as well before moving on.

Yeah they fumbled Alexei a lot in NG3, something went wrong with his transfer and he became easily one of the most slippery and hardest to fight bosses. He's even worse in NG3:RE where he'll just be i.framed for days. Strangely enough Alma is cake in that version.

How Steel on Bone works? Like, how the enemies are programmed to "glow red"? Purely random?

Not really sure as I didn't even beat my first playthrough yet, but I know that using meditation triggers it.

i beat this game yesterday and it's still stuck in my head. the game is obviously not good in terms of uhhh... consistency? I mean, the individual quality of the elements...

(I like it and I'm not too much into 'objectivity x subjectivy' discussion, I tend to separate "love" and "respect" but I don't like to see them as a dicotomy. However, I do think that a single element of the game can carry over the rest)

...and I think no one disagree with me (i hope i'm wrong, good to see different opinions), like, the story, the FOCUS on the story, QTEs and other intrusive elements, game flow (fucking endless battle gauntlet, I kinda like it sometimes because I'm insane and it's also *theoretically* cool in a narrative sense but meh, MGR did better 1 year later), enemies, bosses, scenery and some visual designs, progression, etc etc etc


there is a lot of wrong things going on in this game and I'm sure Roy has a list of differences between RE and Vanilla so yeah... I'm glad I played the good version, because the combat is absolutely bonkers. I love it at first glance, but then I had the problem with enemies dodging and blocking your attacks all time and... it was frustrating. But it's STILL Ninja Gaiden, the franchise that gives you every fucking tool to deal with every fucking thing, so yeah we can talk about enemy behavior here

i won't talk about NG2 here because this game is very specific in terms of enemy design and they don't dodge too much.

in NGB enemies are constantly dodging and blocking your attacks but because of the slow-paced nature of the game, you can wait their turn to punish frames and controlling the space is the keypoint to success. To break their guards and keep them stun-locked you can do wall-attacks, wind-run + flying swallow or wind-path, UTs and GTs, shurikens, heavy attacks, etc. Of course you have all of these options in NG3:RE, but that's not the point.

In NGB, the combat is mechanically more "condensed", basic tools are very important and the gameloop is basically a big fest of microdecisions. In NG3:RE, everything feels more open-ended, which is not a bad thing per se but I didn't like how it was incorporated in the game (in the campaign, at least). Wall-less-ass game, with the stupid pattern of "a lot of enemies attacking you, a lot of enemies shooting your ass" (okay NG2 is kinda like that but that's a whole different combat system), no essences so no UT abuse (this is the only thing that I don't think it's necessarily bad tho), bad healing system imo, GTs are useless, no more "hold block while you're not attacking" because of the input drops (i can't do the pseudo bunny hopping anymore, that's sad)

However, in the 2nd half of the game I started to rely more on SoB and yeah, that's definitely the way I'm supposed to play. My worst sin was playing NG3:RE as if it was NG2, dodging and jumping all the time, trying to delimb everything, etc. But then I realize that what makes NG3 special is how the player is demanded to constantly change his mindset and pace between each fight:

1. i really like the weapon system in this game. in NG2 weapons level are important because of the whole delimb % of each move and all other uses, but here the movelist is wider, and despite existing a lot of redundant moves, I didn't feel that weapons were reskin of each other, and yes, I still prefer the weapons in NG2, but here in NG3:RE i changed weapons more in my first run.  

2. the back-and-forth is excellent and progression being tied to the karma system makes a lot of sense, especially in this game (although I dislike the skill tree thing and progression overall, it's very interesting since the essence system is gone).

3. enemies dodging and blocking: a solution

a. I do like the slide, although it feels worse (than roll and dash) to control in terms of movement in the middle of a fight. But hey, you can stumble enemies now! It's a great feature, it really helps in the flow of gameplay and enemy manipulation.

b. Shurikens, UTs, GTs, IDs. I feel these tools are less useful here than in NGB/NG2 but it's still effective anyway (except for GTs imo).

c. Combos. A lot of strings, a lot of long strings. Just bully your enemies, fuck with everything.

d. Hold attacks, try to hold Y in the end or middle of your combo, I'm sure it will be good to break their defenses.

e. Patience, wait for attacks and then try to parry, cicada surge (that's a good one) and obviously, Steel on Bone.

Good game, the combat is one of the best ever made but the campaign is one of the worst ever made. It's the only one (in NG series) that I hope I'll never replay. I'll try the Sigmas now (for the first time) and the NES Gaidens.

The difference between the original release and Razor's Edge has to be seen to be believed, it's honestly astonishing what they did in such a short time. I will say that a lot of the game's best elements are backloaded. Being able to replay the entire game without any cutscenes and with 4 characters is honestly super cool. The TrialMaps are fantastic too and honestly where the real meat of the game is.

Fully agree on the weapons, feels like they trimmed some fat here. Some nobrianers are fused, like the Tonfa and Claws from NGII now being a singular weapon which is good touch.

> Story

I really didn`t get it(NG3`s concept). Because, Ryu hayabusa is kinda pre-modern knight. That people do not blindelessly follow their roles was a novel thing, which is brought by modern novels in contratst to romance. Characters of modern novel have internal conflicts, because following the social roles can not solve their problems or even makes a situation worse.

So, Ryu hayabusa, The master ninja of dragon clan. DID HE HAVE TO CONCERN ABOUT KILLINGS? I don`t think so. Like, maybe, killing non-harmful people or killing in an unhonorable way, then he can worry about it. Because it is violation to his code, his social role. Or heck, maybe his killing for murai could go wrong because he was a uncle anyway so maybe that maks wrong vengence cycles etcetc... The approach to make Ryu hayabusa more likable, or show his kindness is not a bad idea, but I really really didn`t get it why they approach like a modern novel for this "THE SAGA OF NINJA DRAGON SWORD : A SIDE STORY 3"(word-for-word translation) game.

> story

i kinda like the idea of expanding Ryu traits as a character and explore his violent nature because it's a good way to contrast with NG2, which is pure vulgarism for the sake of aesthetics (and there is nothing bad with it because he is either killing fiends or humans portrayed as bad people attacking him, so, it's self defense)


the problem with NG3 is that the game starts showing Ryu killing people and being a "bad person" which is totally against what he stand for in NG2 and the progression overall is bad because there is NO payoff for his internal conflicts besides the ending that is kinda decent. The cutscene direction is also bad, look at Theodore death, is stupid af imo

I like the use of ludonarrative (bloody rage, the "nightmare" thing where Ryu fight enemies while his HP is gradually decreasing, variety of enemies tied to Ryu situation, etc) but all the intrusive elements (QTEs, climbing, walkie-talkie, run escape, etc) are awful and the cutscenes being long as fuck doesn't help. i'd say the *structure* per se is not bad, but it should've been like MGR where the gameplay is better integrated in this kind of structure (sundowner bossfight is a great example)

>enemies dodging and blocking your attacks
This is one of the reasons that I like Razor's Edge a lot more than NG2. Enemies in that game are made of wet tissue paper. It also adds a lot more value to the various attack strings, as some are better suited for breaking guards or chasing evades.

>his internal conflicts
I don't think it's about an internal conflict, or Ryu being a "bad person". Ryu is never shown expressing remorse for the things he has done; they were necessary. The point of showing Ryu mercilessly killing a soldier in the vanilla release was not to show Ryu as "bad" but to show the full weight and consequence of the act of taking a life. It's not the greatest in execution (heh) and so I can totally understand why they removed it from Razor's Edge.

Allow me to get thematic for a moment. The villain's evil plan consists of stealing the full power of the Dragon Sword without accepting the responsibility that comes with that power, and the result is an all-powerful god rampaging across Tokyo like a child throwing a tantrum. Our hero Ryu is left with all of the weight and none of the power, and must overcome that burden and fully accept the responsibility in order to reclaim the Dragon Sword, most clearly represented by Ryu borrowing Genshin's power. The story wants to show you Ryu's burden so that his heroics shine all the brighter, and I can't think of anything that carries this feeling more than "A Hero Unmasked". God I wish this game had a proper, full-length soundtrack.

Plus the part where Ryu jumps from the cockpit of one jet into another is the coolest cutscene in the series hands-down.

> This is one of the reasons that I like Razor's Edge a lot more than NG2.

Oh, very understandable. I love NG2 enemies because they are merciless, they're not afraid to start the battle spamming grab moves against Ryu, not afraid to transform the fights into a bullet hell, a lot of unavoidable and low telegraphed attacks in the best fast-paced game ever made but at the same time, Ryu is overpowered as his enemies. Symbolically, Ryu would be unbalanced and unfair in any other game and his enemies would be very disgusting and frustrating if it weren't for Ryu toolkit. NG2 is bullshit but everything is designed around this bullshit, and enemies dodging all the time would be very bad considering how important short strings are.

> It also adds a lot more value to the various attack strings

I can feel you. As I said, around the 2nd half of the game, I started to play a lot better, using SoB constantly and testing more combo strings and I felt rewarded doing it. But in some cases I felt like it was too much, especially in bossfights where the boss don't dodge or block my attacks, in fact, the boss DENIES it and this is stupid af imo

> Ryu is never shown expressing remorse for the things he has done

hmmm i think you're right, but the game miscommunicates that. I felt the narrative was trying to convince both ryu and player that Ryu himself was a bad person but it should have tried to convince only Ryu, it would make more sense. I didn't play Vanilla tho; idk what they cut from the story

> Allow me to get thematic for a moment.

I really like the ending, it's probably the best part of the story lmao

> remorse
In NG:B he's more a weapon of vengeance. IIRC the original concept was that he dies at the start and is temporarily revived as a literal 'spirit of vengeance' which is why he's so mysterious upon revival and his final disappearance as an eagle. In NGII he's more arrogant, with something to prove (accend above his father). In NG3 he's basically God in his setting. You'd have to play some of the DoA games (like Dimensions) to realize just what kind of an insane monster he is in his setting when it comes to power. Nothing can stand in his way.

I do feel the whole ' dark hero ' element was overplayed. Hayashi noted that they looked a lot towards western storytelling mechanics, and tried to mix it with eastern style of writing and apparently that fell flat. Feel what they're doing with their recent games i.e. history with a twist, works way nicer.

> ending
For me it's always an emotional bit, but maybe not for the reasons they wanted. Seeing Ryu hop on the rooftops to that (sickass) themesong, knowing it may very well have been the last time we saw him, still hits me from time to time.

> killing the soldier
My biggest, BIGGEST gripe with vanilla is that there's no gore. The entire focus was on how brutal Ryu was, on how merciless he was. How steel cuts on bone. And there's no gore. No dellimbs. Nothing. It would've been insane to see a NPC cry out for mercy, only for Ryu to vivisect him.

What's the purpose of Kasumi's Windmill UT? It doesn't seem to have any delimb property and her grab looks like gimmick too.

> windmill UT
Not a clue, but I'm not a big Kasumi player.

> grab
It's super good since it's one of the few instant SoB starters. Good way to open up foes.

>windmill UT
It can kill or delimb several common grunts, but is not as powerful against stronger enemies. Targeting on it is weird too. Sometimes, it will hit less enemies than normal UT or SoB. Can't think of situation where it's better to use it as oppesed to standard UT. Utility of it seems to me situational at best.

Edit: I think I get it now. It's better used as sort of Windmill form NG:B. It also can be held down after stong attack like normal UT, so it's just stronger version of shuriken.

>Ukifune (LT+B)
It's re-purposed multiplayer move, right? At least description suggests it. I might be doing something wrong, but I can't seems to trigger SoB from it. Pretty neat, that you can use after hiting an enemy with shuriken though.

> Ukifune
IIRC you can do the launcher, then do a dodge into SoB, it gives the same animation as if you'd hit a weakened enemy with a dodge to launch them into SoB. Again, it's been a while so don't quote me. I know you can use it for guaranteed Izuna which is nice since it is quite safe and high damage in this game.

In general I do like the concept since it makes each of the characters stand out a bit more. When Razor first hit Ayane was basically "Ryu but worse in every way" since she lacked Cicada and got nothing in return outside of a rehashed moveset and again hoarding Ryu's supply of Incendiaries. Momiji was interesting in that she brought support to the table for co-op (healing). Kasumi was a real turning point in many ways. She was always noted by Itagaki as never being allowed in Ninja Gaiden, as she was 'too pure for that violent world', so it was a big severing of those old ties that dictated the series. And she really stood on her own mechanically with her grab which is a cool thing to do.

>Uki
Saw Kage doing SoB from it.

Edit: or maybe it was OT? Animation can look really similar.

>Izuna out of grab
It reminded me that that she has two Izunas. I think the other has splash damage and the other doesn't, perhaps there is recovery difference too?

>Multiple characters
I like it in NG3:RE, I even like Rachel in Σ1. I think it's only badly realized in Σ2. Momiji, Rachel and Ayane really capture "Ryu, but you also have something to look at" there.

>Too pure
Wasn't he bit protective toward her, calling her his "daughter"? It aligns with what I know about Itagaki - a man who takes his creations very seriously.

>Coop
So nice of them to keep removing features, especially when they're tied to characters' abilities!

> izuna
IIRC you can cancel the regular Izuna, at least with Ryu, not sure if it also works with the girls.

> multiple characters
I'd have been a lot more forgiving to them if they were optional. Ayane's chapter in NGS2 was really rough on Master Ninja, would've been great if they were optional. Also was never a fan of gating specific moves/weapons behind specific characters. I'd much rather have it as a weapon for Ryu than locked behind 1 character that's playable for 1 stage (which RE sorta fixed). NG3:RE did this better as noted by also giving them (mostly) unique abilities.

> his daughter
They were all his daughters iirc. He was very, very serious about intellectual property. Before making NG2004 he met up with the original creator and design of NES Ninja Gaiden to be sure he wouldn't trample on any ideas and visions. When Lisa was 'white washed' (to an extent) he went on a giant rant on Facebook.

There's a reason why the guy, despite basically not having made a game for nearly 15 years, is so beloved by fans still. He was pretty darn passionate, outspoken and (especially for the time) very open to his fans (often did QnA's on his facebook profile, replied to a lot of comments on his feed and always picked up the phone).

> coop
Keep forgetting they axed this feature. What the fuck were they thinking ($$$ obv).

>izuna cancel
It's foward Y at the end, innit? She has that too, it's really almost instant recovery.

Really fun character overall.

picked up the Master Collection on the Winter sale. Razor's Edge is super fun, i can see why Roy and so many others are obsessed with these games.

i played NGS2 for like 15 minutes. i immediately saw the issues and i haven't even played NG2; low enemy count, low aggression, stupid amounts of health coupled with a low delimb %. just played like dirty ass. unless someone can make a case for it i'll just wait to play the real version of this one.

my only problem with Razor's Edge so far is that the game is visually hideous. gross environments, art style, lighting, and textures-- wish the game looked like NG2.

> NGS2
The biggest fun in that game imo is that it's a good low bar of entry into the series (I started with this game too), and it's great for style-kiddies that want to derp around and do cool combos since a) enemies have enough health to style on b) they are so passive you can do what you want.

The original NGS2 also had online-coop which was actually very novel for the genre, and a big pull for many. While the connection was absolutely horrible, it was super fun and memorable.

> NG3RE
Super fun game but like you said also one of the most hideous games ever made. Super butt-fucking ugly levels.

beat the campaign on Normal. the bosses in this game are the worst, why do they exist? i would genuinely sooner let a Great White bite me clean in half than beat these bosses on Master Ninja-- and you're telling me NG2 has worse bosses than this? lol just... lol

every weapon is excellent, it's always a nice thing when a game doesn't have any fat in the weapon department

what are the BnB's for the weapons?

> bosses
They're pretty stupid yeah. NGII's bosses are mostly better, but also have some worse ones (like Gigadeath). NG3:RE mostly suffers from the entire thing being made in such a short time, so everything is basically hanging together on ducktape. It's especially hilarious with the imported bosses; older bosses were added to the game's challenge maps, and some of them just straight up don't function or glitch out constantly. It's beautiful.

> BnB
Whatever has the most AoE and mobility in the moves tends to work, you can't stay still. Obviously there's the graveyard spin (360Y with scythe) which nukes the game from orbit.

>bosses
They've absolutely massacred my poor Alma. You can block pillars and FS sometimes has trouble connecting. On the other, Marbus feels like a beast compared to his version in Black or Σ.

Alexei also basically decides for himself if he dies or not. That guy can legit just be unhittable for minutes on end if he wishes it.

i figured out dodge chaining, i am now the slide king. any other tech i should know about?

idk if this is a problem with the Master Collection in general or with the PC version specifically or what but right from the first time i played this game on the first level i immediately noticed the horrible visibility issue, it was just hard to see anything due to how low the brightness was. i checked the in-game gamma and brightness settings and everything was supposedly at the right settings and my tv's settings are correct, had to pump the game's brightness up to get it to where it should be.

>garbage bosses

i wish developers didn't feel that bosses are obligatory in action games

>360Y with scythe

yeah i only used that on bosses, could give a fuck about fighting fair against those things

starting Master Ninja now. beating the game on Normal and spending a little time on the easiest Ninja Trials surely prepared me for Master Ninja difficulty... right?

didn't know that Master Ninja wasn't this game's hardest difficulty

love the look of Van Gelf-- something about the design and color of them is so "old-school 2D video game enemy".

> difficulty
Yeah in Sigma 2 they added Ultimate Ninja trials, which were the 'super hard' ones. In NG3 they added Ultimate Ninja as dlc-difficulty, and it became the base highest in Razor's Edge.

> Van Gelf
Such a sick enemy, shame they kinda fucked 'm up in Razor (SoB, the key mechanic of the game, doesn't work on them).

>prepared me for Master Ninja difficulty... right?

update: no, it did not. at all.

i kept redoing the second fight (that big fight after you do your first stealth kill and then glide down there), the game was just kicking my teeth in. to be fair i wasn't upgrading my health because i was trying to save my Karma to unlock level 2 Scythe as quickly as possible for bosses but i quickly learned what a stupid idea that was, the default bar is just way too small for this difficulty. even if you don't get hit by a big attack the enemies just constantly chip you down in this game. upgraded my health, got past the first 3 waves, got my first save point, and then the game threw fucking Alchemists at me. couldn't believe my eyes, this is the first level.

when i saw that shit i immediately quit out of the game to take a break and eat lunch