Vanquish: General discussion

Yeah 2-5 is a nightmare. A lot of players spawn-kill the gorgies with the RPG, which is a solid strategy. Note that at one point the enemies will go to the center, opening them up for a EMP + Frag combo (be sure to shoot the frag for bonus damage).



1v1 the Tank shouldn't be a problem once you get behind it and take care of its pistons.



Getting to the gate doesn't work ...


Yeah I was thinking of completely the wrong chapter. Sniping here won't work as enemies spawn infinitely. There's a pretty simple smoke setup you can use paired with EMPs to rush past. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5sDRZLp1Xw

Smokes are a rare item, you can only carry 3 and dying doesn't replenish them. Note that the game auto-saves your deaths, so if you die too many times and end up with 0 smokes, you're out of luck.

As a weapon, smokes take up all the attention of enemies. Paired with EMPs they make you nigh invisible/invulnerable to enemy fire for a short period of time.

> boost dodge
You just start the boost, and immediately dodge out of it yeah. Mashing it basically works. ZigZagging is counter to it, in it you let the first few frames play out as you boost to the left, and then dodge to the right, screwing up enemy aim significantly.

Zaa has a good set of videos on most of the techniques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1ssJnUxvo

Well then, I guess I'll just do that. Seems simple enough I suppose. I've been trying to minimize my cover usage in general to offset the KBM advantage, so that's probably why I never noticed the cigarette throwing.

>videos
Thanks, lots of good stuff in there like the disk homing in after a ricochet, makes it more useful. I'm definitely getting to see the merits of each weapon, even the weirder ones.

Does using the LFE Gun to push your grenades have much practical use? I only used grenades at a very basic level during my playthroughs.

You can use it in very specific instances to reach a spawn point early that is too far away from your starting point. This is handy because during a spawn all enemies are clustered together, and afterwards they tend to disperse, making a grenade less useful.

That and style-points, but there is practical application as I just noted.

Gregorinho wrote:Does using the LFE Gun to push your grenades have much practical use? I only used grenades at a very basic level during my playthroughs.

Not really, maybe just challenge 1, 4 and 3-1. The range of the enemy spawn needs to be really far away for that technique to be useful. Maybe if you perform it rolling the grenade on the ground the range can be more limited.. That tech happens since there's a safety timer on the grenades to not explode in your hand from enemy fire.

For keyboard+mouse I think AA pistol and assault rifle turn into top tier weapons reducing use of others.
If you want to force yourself to more variety maybe avoid those two, or at least AA pistol. Even on console with access to upgrades AA pistol basically makes shotgun obsolete (to a long range weapon!) due to double headshot damage which is gross.
God Hard should be a bit easier on mouse too since less AR gauge gets consumed from any slow-mo aiming.

I didn't spend that much time with the PC/60fps versions yet but I got the impression that along with damage inaccuracies the enemy aggression might be a bit higher. I spent most of my time testing stuff out on Challenge 3 and the first wave with blue gorgies & spheres is way more aggressive than I remember.
From what I heard from others the damage inaccuracy might be the largest on 5-3 (and I guess challenge 5?). It's still very challenging but damage on both special ranged attacks is way off.

I think LFE gun is at its most efficient in Hard difficulty where it always one-shots the most basic enemies (on gh takes more hits unless you slowmo as it connects for more damage). But still super handy on all modes w/ strong situational use and requiring no investment in upgrades.

Disk Launcher melee has super armor during the grinding animation, not iframes. I think if you use it at 0 ammo the deflect animation has iframes which is kinda silly. The grab locks enemies in place so if you want to be fancy you can throw grenades and rockets at a romanov, grab them before the explosions and they wont be pushed around etc.

> AA
A very powerful weapon. I saw Bullseye really abuse it which opened my eyes to it as I'd never dabbled into the DLC weapons until that point (felt they were 'cheating', oh to be young).

> 60fps versions
Aggresion definitely took a boost I feel, that or the damage taken from the smaller bullets is increased through the FPS. I found myself playing a tad more on my toes in the re-release compared to the original with certain tactics putting me in far more danger. I recall you testing the 5-3 super attacks also not working correctly in terms of damage.

> LFE
I still feel it holds its own on GH personally. The ability to OHKO Romanovs is too funny to ignore, same with its stunlock potential. That said, it does fight with the BMG for the slot generally speaking, with the HMG and Shotgun having permanent slots on my score runs these days (if I would just stop resetting...).

> deflect animation has i.frames
Blessed be Mikami.

PS: good to see you here again Zaarock. Hope you've been good and healthy :) What you playing these days?

Post 12 has the links: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/987822-vanquish/72151637

A lot of great info in those links. Though I saw you using an emoji of some kind? Was that an imposter?

The only weapons I liked were the weird ones.

LFE, Disc Launcher and Lock-on Laser.

Infini: >emoji
In the past I only ever tolerated one of two text-based emoticons. One being >_> and the other being ಠ_ಠ (likely over a decade since last use of either). Ultimately about as far as I was willing to go to emote (at all). Beyond that, I've only ever used an option to troll in /dbs/ with a standard :) in place of a full stop after laying bait. This was traded out for allowing myself to use "lol" or even "haha". I just really hate such things.

Birdman: >only the weird ones
I was willing to use them all, but I tend to favor the strange. Shame more can't be done with LoL. LFE had a lot of neat quirks (though not all good). DL being so RNG based was the big thing that hurt my feelings. Even on H and below, you can't reach MAX to 100% (as OP as that would be for the things it applies to). Shit sucks. Still, great tool (even when it doesn't want to work with you).

My attitude towards firearms tends to be the same as yours (as evidence by my work with R:FoM1 and R2). Generic tools don't even help me to nurse a semi. Half staff is all I'll get from plain shit good at what they do. I remember wanting to launch my flamethrower (Dragon) secondary and hold it such that it sticks...but on a foe, then have them run around spreading the flammable gas (before igniting to cover a larger area). Not all my dreams come true. Part of why I tend to stay away from shootan gaems. Too often going for 'realism', but in a bland way (won't even let me destroy structures/terrain, work a body damage system, exploit friendly fire, etc.).

>I was willing to use them all, but I tend to favor the strange

My initial runs were mainly HMG, assault rifle and RPG with a dash of sniper. Briefly used the weirder ones and immediately saw value (didn't go in-depth) but quit playing around that time. Didn't actually own a PS3. Was playing on my brother's. Moved on to other stuff but always meaning to go back and do a run with those 3 weapons on me at all times. Messed with DLC a little. Not enough to form an opinion.

>Shame more can't be done with LoL.

Maybe. But best to follow this rule; Don't count anything out until Birdman has touched it.

I recall someone doing a LoL only run. Or did I imagine that?

>DL being so RNG based was the big thing that hurt my feelings.

Barely remember it now. The disc itself seemed to fly off correct?
I vaguely remember having to compensate by aiming elsewhere.

> Lock on Laser
It definitely has its uses. Molu did a LoL-only run of some bosses which was fun to watch and I think Infinity used it as part of its "only three weapons" run. It's a novel weapon, but as GmG notes, there's only minor uses to it since it lacks the 'jank' of other ones. You can use it in fun ways like after a flip to hit certain enemies from behind cover where they cannot see you to cheese certain encounters. The biggest flaw is its lack of ammunition and stopping power. Especially on God Hard you'll need numerous shots to kill even a single mook, let alone some of the heavier hitters (even of the regular troops), to kill them. Pair this with a lot of the later enviroments being inside and you've got a weapon that has a few really good sections and is just plain useless in most others.

That said, I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this. I've always liked the weapon's design, so if you could find a use for it I'd be all for it.

> disc
As noted, it is a simple percentage chance of triggering a decapitation. It's a powerful tool, but not one that works every time and can get frustrating to use as a result. Would've prefered it if it was based on accuracy i.e. a perfect headshot is always a decap.

Beat 3-2, that was a shitshow. Doable with sniper rifle + rockets by running to the tank spawn at the start. Getting hit by anything instantly puts you in the red and there are too many enemies for consistent evasion. This might be a 60fps issue or something (aggression/damage), IDK how you do this section without peeking behind cover and headshotting.

>AA pistol, AR
Yeah I've been avoiding these as per the recommendation. AA pistol is obviously insane, it's basically a sniper with double the ammo and better damage against Romanovs/BIAs. AR is not as bad but I can see how just clicking on weakpoints isn't really intended to be as easy as it is on KBM.

>LoL
This really lives up to the name, even assuming you're playing gamepad and bad at aiming the damage is just so terrible.

Birdman: >don't count it out
By all means. Feel free to return to the title and give it a proper go (LoL ONLY). Maybe work with melee, DL, etc. while you're at it (for other runs).

>HMG, AR and RL typically
I don't really recall my usual non-DLC set-up. I'd have to refer to my old notes. I know I favored the DLC tools.

>didn't work with the DLC stuff much
Pity. I'm an advocate for LC despite it using the AR bar (infinite ammo is hard to argue with). I don't give a shit about points, time, style, etc. I'll happily take my sweet time using hard cover loosely (not stuck to it) with peak shooting and/or sniping to chip away at enemy forces (maybe rev the thing up to have it ready for a tickle *if not a sustained stream*). Definitely a tool I favored to help me save other ammo types (great for H and below in particular so you can upgrade the others with new stacks of drops until MAX, then make proper use of these things).

>recall someone
I did a focused run of all types, but I don't believe any were super strict to the point of being challenge runs (just for testing purposes). Royboy did Shotgun focus (on GH, I believe). Don't think he finished work with LC.

>disc flies off
After melee finishes or you fire it off. The weird flight pattern is troubling even before RNG delimb or the RNG bouncing of the blade around (to hit others).

Ranger: >lack of ammo
Big time. By far the biggest problem for having it be your ONLY weapon. Melee (and frags) end up having to do too much work. It isn't like it will target weakpoints (not even with upgrades). Can't really control what it'll target, either. That the thing arcs up the way it does is neat for going over things, but bad when it runs into low ceilings. Doesn't even get special bonus damage beyond the others for managing to hit special spots (Sniper did for BIA core, I believe).

>based on accuracy
That would be vastly preferred. If I'm eating shit from RNG, let it be because my aim wasn't true enough. If I'm dead on, it better fucking do what I paid for. Especially at MAX.

Pockie: >lives up to the name
Really baiting Birdy with this one.

No meter drain melee trick on Unknowns and Buzzards is really useful, speeds things up by a lot.

>Sniper
This weapon fucks shit up, gold robots in particular drop like flies. Not too useful against big stuff but the small enemies are what I usually die to anyway since they come in numbers. Obviously useful against turrets and open-top transports too.

>Disk Launcher
Second the idea that it should be based on accuracy instead of raw RNG, the flight path and speed are kinda wonky so it might as well reward you for learning it.

>LC
Haven't touched this too much, interesting but my mental energy is already being spent managing the meter as is, let alone a weapon draining it.

>LoL
Hey if someone can get it to work then go for it, don't let me stop you. It does look pretty cool to shoot, reminds me of a shmup lock-on weapon.

>no meter drain
Melee affairs, yes. I was quite pleased with this (though I still have a soft spot for x2 BIA insta-kill via the hangar).

>RNG
I can sort of understand it being there for the ricochet shots you didn't guide, at least. Just sucks that even MAX with perfect aim cannot escape this system.

>mental energy
You'll spend less if you're not engaging in the game's intended spastic movement (where not needed). Don't play their game if you don't have to. Play your own (exploiting terrain, AI, etc.).

>if someone can
Big 'if'.

Got the God Hard clear, 179 deaths and 7.83% cover usage. The large majority of the deaths were from four sections:

• 2-5 hill. This section isn't really like anything else in the game, infinitely respawning enemies combined with wacky cover and lots of enemy sightlines makes it a crapshoot to do normally. Cigarettes cleared it in a few attempts after I was informed of it.
  
• 3-2 plaza. The open arena and sheer quantity of golden robots prohibits roll-spammy type strategies, so for me it was a matter of finding a good vantage point (the tank spawn) to pick the enemies off one by one.
  
• 5-2 Burns. Massive jump in difficulty, the adds will wipe you out if you don't keep them under control. The last room in particular is crazy, it took me a huge amount of deaths before I stumbled on the specific movement and EMPs I needed to do to have a chance at surviving the first 10 seconds. Burns himself isn't really a problem, he just has a lot of HP so it takes a while to chew through it.
  
• 5-2 Bogeys. Actually not as bad as I thought, at first their large HP pools are scary but you can do good damage with the right tactics. Fantastically designed boss, telegraphs are clear and the fight really tests spacing and situational awareness. Decided to kill the Alpha Bogey first, since keeping your focus on him makes it much harder to get nailed by a sniper shot while you're not looking. Shotgun is extremely good here, trips like crazy and does nice damage, but you need to set up the spacing for it and/or watch for openings to use it like the melee string or a trip from another weapon.
  

Overall a great game, glad I did God Hard. Perhaps I will come back for a challenge run in the future, for now though I have other gaming stuff to work on like my Mushi 1cc.

Great job! Always glad to see someone go through the ringer and enjoy it! Good stats too!

For the Burns fight, you can clear the arena prior to fighting him. There's a few tricks you can do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyEuiE3D34
This grenade trick will easily clear the previous room, which helps already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZDpJ5p5agY
As you can see you can easily kill the enemies from outside the door (note that reloading or dying will respawn them, so you only have one shot). Once you get up the 'ramp' you can get Burns into a loop. If you play your cards right he'll die easily.

I highly recommend giving the game a second God Hard run with the experience you've built up now. Like most games on their hardest setting, the first run is very rough. But down the line you'll get more comfortable etc. with engagements and how to handle them. I've personally gotten a bit rusty, but my record was 7 deaths in total at one point which is pretty sweet. Of course most of them were against the Bogeys haha.

>extra runs
A good chance to try other tactics, too.

Doing a second GH run, going much faster than the first. My stats are also looking better so far, especially on parts like the hill and the plaza fight where the main difficulty is figuring out the proper approach.

Encountered a strange Unknown, perhaps Zaitsev is running some tests?

I've never seen that happen haha! Got any idea what triggered it?

No, I just walked in normally. Pretty funny though, gave me a laugh.

>little BITCH playing keep away
Unknown doesn't want the BIG MELEE COCK.

Wrapped up round 2 of GH. Stats: 0.95% Cover Usage, 76 Deaths. Run restrictions: No AR or AA Pistol

Overall much more consistent results. Handled the BIAs much better this time around, LFE and melee combined locks them down hard. I also made better use of EMPs, using them all without wasting any is very similar to the skill of bombing in shmups. Burns is still tough, the marines are very unforgiving. Only 4 deaths to Bogeys, the shotgun is absolutely key here and pumps out damage if you stay spaced for it.

Damn those are some fantastic stats, getting a lot better man! Especially the cover usage is excellent. I still hover around the 2-3% I think due to some engagements. Great stuff!

> Burns
Have you tried killing the marines before entering the arena?

>Burns
Yeah I have, I did the strat in the video you sent and it worked way better than my method. In general it's just easy to get nicked at any point in the fight, even before the last room. The halls you fight in cramp your movement and Burns himself can get you every so often with a missile. I am probably not using grenades enough, maybe that will make it a bit easier.

If you play it safe and manage your ammo good you can also whittle down his health by a sizable margin before the actual fight begins. Note that he's pre-programmed to run away to his next phase when he reaches a certain thresshold, but he doesn't get damage-resistance buffs or anything. So if you lock him down, you can really put in the hurt.

Note that if you die his HP resets to a pre-defined default.

The flow of a lot of encounters (or at least how I like to approach them) really reminds me of the classic FPS Blood. In that game you are a glass whirlwind: insane damage and movement, but a few seconds of enemy fire will crush you. The strategy for tough encounters is to carefully bounce your dynamite off walls and into key targets, then once the room is "softened up," go in guns blazing and wipe out the main group as fast as you can. This encounter/combat archetype of tension and release is also present in Vanquish. Quickly and efficiently taking out enemies like snipers, turrets, and gold robots is crucial to success in some of the tough fights like 1-3 and sniper pit, and once you do that you can really let loose with your crazy movement and abilities. What's really cool is how the meter contributes to both modes of play, and the better you are at taking out the tough stuff, the more meter you have to play with, and the more you can break the rules a bit and start playing aggressive even before killing all the key enemies.

>Burns
Alright, I'll see what I can do next time around, whenever that is. This game isn't that long so I'll probably go again sometime soon.

Round 3, I'm on a roll. Only took me two days to get through. 0.16% Cover Usage, 36 Deaths. Same restrictions as before.

Going back to checkpoint sometimes starts you out of cover when you otherwise would be, so that shaves off some of the percentage. By the way, how is returning to checkpoints counted in terms of deaths? Because if we're counting those then my counts are a bit higher haha. At this point the main contributor for cover percent is 2-5, I can probably do it without cheesing but it will amount to trial and error. Sniper is becoming more and more of a workhorse weapon with its one-shot power and the faster movement from melee cancels.

The system handles deaths and continues weirdly.

If you die and press "return to title screen": the game doesn't count the death
If you die and press "restart from checkpoint": you get a death, and your grenades and ammo are reset
If you pause and press "restart from checkpoint": you don't get a death, and your grenades and ammo aren't reset.

Hope that clears things up :)

Glad to see you enjoying the game so much!

Speaking of delimbs, don't know if anyone has mentioned this here but I just learned of this game called Metal Arms. Was watching some reviews and it mentioned limb damage. Showed some examples.

Go to 11:15. EMPs a large bot, shoots its gun arms, but this doesn't stop them from shooting. More like breaking their joints. Now they fire anywhere like ragdoll arms. Pretty cool mechanic.

HotPocketHPE wrote:Doing a second GH run, going much faster than the first. My stats are also looking better so far, especially on parts like the hill and the plaza fight where the main difficulty is figuring out the proper approach.

Encountered a strange Unknown, perhaps Zaitsev is running some tests?

There's a very funny (and dangerous) bugged form of Unknown near the end of this video too: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30037699
As far as I know that only happens on PS3 and only if you perform that tram skip.

I am giving this a hard run on steam, haven't played since 360 launch day.
Just noticed I lost my weapons and upgrades when I died, really lame.
Does going to title screen and restarting on death keep your upgrades if you die?

I am playing this with a trainer that disables the overheat of melee. It isn't completely broken as it depletes half of your bar, so if your bar is less than half it functions as normal. I find it much more enjoyable and it makes me play more aggressive and close which is what Vanquish is all about.
I wish the roll wasn't nerfed when over heated. Only mechanic I would change in this game, but other than that it is really solid.
Playing this with a controller with paddle buttons is much more enjoyable, you can dodge around while keeping your thumb on right stick at all times.
Very fun action game, period.

I’ve always wondered what the game would be like without the instant overheat from melees. It would make me try out the different melees, at least(since I always the flip kick and the boost kick).

Always wish more games would take cues from this. It’s the only cover based TPS that has deep weapons, and some of the bosses and enemies are unmatched in the genre.

I just really enjoy how I can go from a long range cover shooter, to an up close tight i frame action game at a moments notice. The game is mixing in some of the ninja like melee robots now. Very fun to be in their face perfect dodging into slow mo shotgun.
Kind of like Devil's Third but only guns, and actually good, and also max payne.

Yeah, I mix long range sniping with zipping between cover with shotgun blasts and grenade drops. If you play on God Hard the meter management gets absolutely cranked since your slomo time is cut in half. Make sure to take advantage of stuff like the LFE, probably my favorite weapon ever(sans mr. crossbow).

I played some god hard back in the day and.... I don't think it is for me.
Even on Hard you can be one shot no AR save, and often get one framed straight to AR.
(Did they ever fix the pc framerate damage fuckery? I am playing at 120fps.)
Hard feels perfect for me.
Vanquish doesn't speak to me to master it like RE4, TEW, and GH.
Praise Be Mikami, Hallow Be His Name.
It is still a ton of fun, pure video game top to bottom.

I remember never really using melee. Never felt worth the overheat. Only one I used a lot was that backflip kick because you could use it like a jump anywhere (if they don't connect, no overheat) and go into slow in the air. I'd hide behind stuff that wasn't actually cover and be able to jump and slow-mo snipe.

Under the Mayo is apparently making a video about this game. I can only imagine how utterly horrendous and full of shitty takes it will be.

Oh for fucks sake. Alright guys get your bingo cards out:

Forgot a big one: complaining about how you have to use cover, because according to him and other cuhrayzee fans, cover is inherently bad.

As far as weapon swapping goes, that's a given. To him any game that doesn't force you to switch weapons every 3 seconds through shitty ammo economy doesn't have good design.

lol@delimbs. This is the guy who said Bayo is a "dodge-based game", so I have zero faith that he'll even realize there are delimbs at all, let alone how they work.

Where did you hear this actually? That he'd do this I mean.

Also look forward to these quotes:

"It would've been cooler if the melee attack was tied to a seperate cooldown like the Blood Punch to keep up aggro"
"The LFE deals too little damage to be worth it, would've been cooler if it was a stun like the stunbomb from Doom"
"the shotgun is strong but really needs upgrades to shine"

Oh yeah I forgot he's probably going to complain about the upgrade-system. Wonder what his take is on the disc-launcher.

Who is this guy? Yous are already expecting the Mechanically Blind Greatest Hits.

The name sounds familiar but I don't know anything about him.

>where did you hear this?
He made a community post about it. I guess Vanquish, RE2R, and another Doom Eternal piece are his next videos.

>x should be like Doom
We know the comparisons are coming. He'll think the guns have too much ammo and they need weapon mods(even though they have more going on without them than anything in D:E).

>who is this guy?
His channel blew up by making a bunch of videos about Doom Eternal around the time it came out, with basically every video being in extreme defense of the game. He defends the ammo economy, chainsaw, Marauder, basically everything. He started branching out and covering other games and his takes are unbelievably bad. There was a period where every time he would talk about a different game, he somehow compared it to Doom. It was like parody.

The usual mechanically blind casual then. Nothing to see here.

Mayo's video just dropped. Going to go give myself an aneurism now.

Just watched it. Never in my life did I expect someone to complain that Vanquish was too hard on Normal. Probably going to make a video reply if I can.

Yeah, that was weird to me. I was fully expecting "I can just the AR and sit back! Why would I get in close?!" but he actually said normal was hard. I mean...what?

Thought it'd be fun to make a videoreply, though it's mostly just me talking why I love Vanquish haha

https://youtu.be/sGPJ8j-Cm5A

I mostly though his video was weird, and contained my biggest annoyance with modern youtubers i.e. "I played this game for the video, here's a bunch of day-1 takes and now leave me alone" which I think does games like this a massive disservice.