Doom: Eternal

Have been watching some gameplay of Xiae, pretty interesting.

https://youtu.be/AsJKYm2NEos

His(?) playstyle is *extremely* optimized i.e. spawns are memorized and optimal combos are used. This means that, sadly, you barely see 10% of the arsenal. It is fully Precision Shot canceled into RPG/ Supershotgun (depending on range). Ballista is only used for its spreadshot mod (OHKO's turrets!) and movement. Chaingun only for the shield in dire situations, and he doesn't even fire with it to save ammo for Precision Shot.

It's interesting to see it played as such, puts the game in a unique light. You do see how weird Spirits play into the playstyle though. Don't think this is what the dev's intended.

I've been playing a bit of Doom lately again (classic), and the weapon balance barring the SSG&Pistol is just so excellent in that game. Takes me by surprise.

> stun bomb
I think it is much improved yeah, it being a standard kit tool that also doesn't require a weapon shot is pretty sweet. Do feel that the more I watch Eternal gameplay, the more I feel spawnkilling really ruins the flow. It becomes an almost mathematical problem that Ninja Gaiden managed to avoid with off-screen spawning.

> horde mode
I googled it after you mentioned it, looks fantastic. Why are modders coming up with this stuff and not developers?

That's amazing. I'd love to see a handcam of his keyboard - I find it stressful enough trying to reach for the "1" key in a firefight.

I always like the thought of playing classic Doom, but then tend to get pulled in by something shinier in my library. They're an awesome set of games though. Eternal is my favourite but Ultimate Doom/Doom 2 are still far superior to 99% of the genre. I should get a source port downloaded for them. I think I last played them on the 360. It's pretty crazy how few games have come close to Doom given how long other developers have had to try and perfect the formula.

> Modders
It's frustrating, isn't it? Imagine the suite of single player content we could have had if id had pooled their resources towards more Master Levels, a Horde/Bloody Palace style mode, mabve even some sort of editor to design your own Slayer Gates (with the option of picking preset weapons, runes etc. for extra challenges) and being able to share them like SnapMap from 2016...but no, we get regular bug fixes for Battlemode. Did I make it up or were we supposed to be getting a new Master Level every month? I think we only have two and one of them was a pre-order bonus...

I finally finished my Nightmare run, had a blast with it. It was challenging but fair, and I definitely felt like I grew as a player to overcome it. Really, really enjoyable game for me. Definitely in my top 5 action games of all time...maybe even top 3. I tend to find my favourites are the ones that feel like they have a strong sense of "rhythm" to them, and the player feels like the last piece of the puzzle that clicks everything in to place. I agree with the concept of the "Doom dance", but I think all the best action games have their own "dance" that engrosses you.

I know some people hate how formulaic Eternal is but if I were to be selfish, I really hope this inspires a new wave of FPS design. I try to respect everybody's tastes but I just really can't get behind this "I should be able to kill any enemy with whatever weapon I want" complaint. The game would be so boring if none of the enemies required a strategy to beat. Sure, you wouldn't want every enemy having strict requirements, but I think this is balanced well. Even the enemies that have weakpoints can have them destroyed in multiple ways, so you're rarely "forced" to use a certain weapon. It's not a rarity in the action genre (either first or third person) to have weapons that are better in some situations rather than others, or enemies that can be beaten quicker with particular strategies. Virtually every game in the genre has this, even if some games are less strict about it. For me, I think the people that believe they are denied creativity just haven't grasped the system and aren't prepared to learn it. I suppose DMC is the game that comes to mind when you think about creativity and expression in combat, but there's plenty of things you can do in those games that make you more efficient. It'd be boring using 50 different moves in a fight if they all had identical properties.

There's a game in early access on Steam at the moment called Ultrakill that looks to be along the same lines as Eternal (although I think a prototype of Ultrakill may have existed before Eternal started development, interestingly). It uses a similar system of "push-forward combat" where you have to play aggressive to survive, and features similar movement mechanics, weapon mods etc. It also takes inspiration from DMC (3 especially) featuring a style gauge, just-frame defensive options and references to its characters and weapons. The game markets itself as "Devil May Quake". Only one of three acts are currently finished but reception is looking very positive. I'm not massively keen on supporting the early access model but I'm certainly tempted - worth a look for any Eternal fans.

Early Christmas present for me! The Classic Mode looks cool, like the Pistol starts from the OG games. I really like that the developers are embracing the idea of challenge runs rather than just letting the community choose to do them. I hope the mode is ready for the whole game and not just Super Gore Nest. The enormous delay on getting the Master Levels out has been disappointing but between COVID and having to work on the DLCs I'm willing the give them the benefit of the doubt.


EDIT: Just finished the new Master Level. It was pretty challenging, but not as hard as the DLC missions (which I still need to do on Nightmare). The changes in this ML are greater than the others - there are some new paths and rooms not seen in the original, and without spoiling anything, they've taken inspiration from the enemy changes they made in the DLC. There are 10 challenges to complete, and completing them all gets you the golden Combat Shotgun:
- Beat the mission (4 difficulties)
- Beat the mission in Extra Life mode (4 difficulties)
- Beat the mission on Ultra Nightmare
- Beat the mission in Classic Mode (you start with the Combat Shotgun, and all other weapons/mods are pickups found throughout the mission. You get a character skin for beating this.)

Sadly, Classic Mode isn't available for the whole game. Just the new mission, for now.  Very cool to see something like this as a free update. I'm not sure if all the other Master Levels are going to get this sort of treatment. It'll be interesting to see if they update the first two, seeing as they were pre-DLC and theoretically easier.

Classic Mode sounds absolutely fantastic. One of my favourite memories of the original was Pistol Starting each stage as it really felt like it made the maps better since you had to explore to get good equipment (Pistol Start Nightmare hurt my soul, never managed to beat the fourth stage iirc). Big shame it's not available on all stages. Do feel that this 'peacemeal' content is fun but there should be a better pattern to it. This is the first Master Level since launch iirc for example. Also still not a fan of gating content behind a timer.

Regarding the Challenges, how do you 'complete' it on Ultra Nightmare exactly? I thought Master Levels weren't available on that setting.

> Ultra Nightmare
You're correct, but the approach to this new update is different. It's almost like a mini DLC - as in, it's a bit like what they've done with The Ancient Gods. You can play any difficulty (including UN), any mode type (normal/extra life/classic) and there are rewards locked behind challenges. The main difference between this and TAG is that it's not a "separate game" - you have to load a save game of the main campaign first, so you'll have whatever gear you've unlocked so far (no maxed out slayer by default). I noticed somebody on Reddit say that they didn't have any saves, so they started a new game to do the Master Level... which meant he started with absolutely nothing. Not even the chainsaw. Good luck to him with that!

There have also been a lot of complaints on Reddit about bugs in the new content - being softlocked in rooms, content not unlocking after completing challenges, etc. I've not encountered anything like that (and it took me about 2 hours and plenty of retries to beat), but worth mentioning.

> Timed Content
Are you referring to the seasons that they run? I don't like that either. I guess it's their way of trying to get those player retention numbers without the negative PR of microtransactions. There is a black and gold skin for the SSG that I've seen loads of people using in YT videos and it's cool, but there's no way for me to get it now. Not a fan of devs trying to control when and how often you play. This is what I hate about these battle pass DLCs that games have now instead of loot boxes. Okay, sure, it's "better", but now I have to play on the devs terms and put in X number of hours by a certain deadline, or... I can no longer unlock the stuff I paid for? It's ridiculous. At least we aren't being asked to pay for Doom's seasons.

I don't think anything in the new Master Level update is timed, thankfully. There's not too much to unlock (a weapon skin, slayer skin, some titles and icons) but that's fair enough for a free update.

> timed content
Yeah that was what I was aiming at. Hitman did the same thing, though it fitted the mold better. Though I still feel that in a sense you punish late-adopters with an inferior product while also punishing players for playing other games or having other hobbies.

Like, it's great to have content that's exclusive to high level players (golden skin comes to mind), but having content be locked behind "you were on holiday that week, sucks to be you" really sucks.

> UN Master Level Pistol Start
Game on.

I might have been wrong on something - I'm not sure if you can do Classic Mode AND UN (or Extra Lives) together. I think it is it's own self-contained thing. I'll try and test it tonight and update this comment. Given how they're all about the challenge, it'd be a weird omission.

EDIT: You can't do Classic Mode on UN. My mistake.

I think I saw somebody say that there's a Marauder fight you have to do without the SSG and Ballista -  eek.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't get the Crucible in Classic Mode because they probably couldn't be bothered to model a pick-up icon for it. You can find at least 1 charge for it on the map in the regular mode, though.

EDIT: You do find the Crucible in Classic Mode. 2 for 2 on mistakes!

I won't say where, but I actually found a use for the Unmaykr in the new Master Level! It's not a total waste of space after all.

So apparently in the latest update they have nerfed the Unmaykr so it no longer has unlimited ammo with the Overdrive power-up (which was pretty much the only thing it had going for it over the BFG), and they've also completely re-made the Slayer Gate in the final mission of TAG Part 1 and it's now much harder. It features the Posessed Marauder (that we assumed was coming in DLC2), among other changed enemy formations.

Neither of these things are listed in the patch notes. Really not sure what id were thinking with this one - rather than buff the least useful weapon in the game, they make it even worse again, and remix an already hard optional challenge to make it harder. I guess Hugo doesn't like the idea of so many players beating 100% UN runs.

Played the new Master Level but wasn't in the mood I feel. Maybe give it a chance later.

> nerfed Unmakyr into the ground in the 3 instances it was actually useful
This is absolutely beyond me. One of the few fun fights in TAG was that part where you got Overdrive and a ton of shield enemies to use the Unmakyr on. Did they give any reasoning as to this? Might a bug, or it used to be a bug that became a feature.

> Hugo hates players breaking his game in half with 100% UN Speedruns a week after release
He keeps taking notes from the Sigma 2 handbook and not the NGII handbook. Don't let enemies hit you harder, let them hit more frequent. I really do feel off-screen spawning should be something to add in some respect, as spawn-memorization really is the way to go currently I feel.

> Unmaykr Nerf
As far as I know, the devs haven't said anything about it. One of several things they've stealth patched in the latest update. As you say, genuinely baffling. This is the same dev team that are trying to push the idea that everything is useful and you'll need to use all your tools to succeed.

> Hugo hates players
Yeah, if they really want to crack down on the 0.1% of players absolutely blitzing their way through the game, remixing or randomising enemy spawns could help. As it stands though they just keep making the game harder and harder for anybody outside of that 0.1%. I enjoy the challenge, but I just don't feel like it's necessarily a good design approach. I've also heard that there are rumours that the Ice Bomb is getting a re-work (unclear if its for the entire game or just TAG Pt. 2) because Hugo feels it should be earned and not tied to a cooldown. I think if this was really an issue they wouldn't have had equipment tied to cooldowns to begin with.

Some Ancient Gods Part 2 info/leaks below. I'd say there are at least a couple of nice surprises in there so big spoiler warning for those that might care:

Spoiler:

A trailer for the DLC is due to drop on the 15th next week, confirmed on twitter along with some cool promotional artwork (worth noting that there are some pretty major spoilers in the artwork, despite it being official):

https://twitter.com/DOOM/status/1368634833761624064?s=20

Looking really cool, wonder how this will impact the series. It really feels like a "this is the final one" for some reason. Despite my (many) grievances with the game, I still really enjoy it. Going to play this like hell tomorrow!

I believe they've said a few times that this is the final part of the Doom Slayer's story, effectively making the DLC like Part 3 of a trilogy. Will be interesting to see where Doom goes from here!

I probably should have played through DLC1 on Nightmare to prepare - I'm going to be very rusty! Had a bit of a slump with gaming recently and not really felt like playing much, but the incoming DLC will hopefully be a welcome pick-me-up.

Yeah I've been away from Action myself for a bit, mostly spamming Battlefleet Gothic (so good, my god) and FFX. Looking forward to playing this when it hits tomorrow.

> end of the slayer
Might be good. Would be cool if they made a game next that's different again, perhaps akin to the classics?

Finished the second DLC in two sittings.

It's....Doom Eternal. Haha, can't say nothing else. Everything I hated is dialed up to 20, everything I enjoyed is dialed up to 20. A lot of weapons and mods are still useless, the combat is still fantastic. Some of the new enemies are pretty cool, there's one that is harmless but if you kill them they buff all enemies around them, promoting you to aim well and not use AoE shots. The 'cursed' imp is pretty fun too as is the guy with the armour (that strangely reminds me of God of War 1).

The absolutely most laughable entry though has to be the Rock Imp. I can just imagine the office conversation:
"Hey Hugo! We just got a new enemy ready"
"AWESOME...but you know what..."
"What Hugo? "
"Players aren't using that one shotgun mod at all"
"Yeah that one is terrible"
"MAKE IT SO ONLY THAT MOD CAN KILL THAT ENEMY"
"ON IT CHIEF UR A GENIIUS"

When I saw that popup saying "this enemy can only be killed by the Shotgun Full Auto mod" I laughed.

Final boss was terrible imo.

That said, fun DLC. Liked the levels, platforming was cool, setpieces were neat, lots of fun fights and they got really creative with some of them. Just...come on man, let us use our tools instead of pushing us. Enfin, that's a tired argument haha.

One thing that took me by surprise was the Hammer, it's actually a pretty neat weapon that allows for creativity. It can be paired with other weapons for bonus results, it's a AoE stun too. Lots of fun applications.

Anyone else here play it yet?

Not got much to comment on at the moment as I've only just beat the first mission - glad your experience was mostly positive by the sounds of it! I really enjoyed that. Not as "annoying" as DLC1 can be, pretty creative enemy encounters (at least by the game's own standards) and a good challenge. New enemies are good so far, I think. Not just "the same but stronger", they have a bit more to them than that. Sentinel Hammer is pretty cool, as noted. Much more interesting than the Crucible - so much so that it makes me wish that got a rework for the base game to use similar mechanics.

On the Stone Imps - unless you're playing on a higher difficulty than me (Ultraviolent for my first run), or unless things change later in the DLC - you can kill them with anything. They're weak to the full-auto mod (and the sentinel hammer) but you can do decent damage with any other weapons/combos.

True, but they are insanely resillient on higher settings. I've seen one tank more damage than a Hellknight which was a bit much. It's also the only way to stop their semi-homing dash attack.

This DLC definitely has the most interesting and fun fights. Some gimmicks here and there but generally fun.

> hammer in main game
I have this feeling too. The Crucible added nothing for me, but this weapon is a good part of the kit, works well and promotes weakness/glorykill usage more than any other mechanic in the game did so far. Also fun sound-effects haha.

Gotta give them props for the Conan skin too. Looks gorgeous.

This final boss is utter shit, possibly my least favourite thing in the whole game.

Any idea if you get a checkpoint mid-boss? I've got him down to his last healthbar and I don't know if I've got the concentration to see it through to the end!

Edit: Completely forgot I had the sentinel hammer... turns out it's VERY useful against the boss. Beat it fairly quickly after that!

Still a crappy boss though, to be honest. I expected a lot more from it. I thought we were going to get an FPS equivalent of the "rival fights" of other action games - Dante vs Vergil, Bayo vs Jeanne etc.

Will write a more detailed post on my DLC2 thoughts tomorrow, gonna get some post-Doom sleep in first.

Yeah that boss was terrible as noted. Once you get him down he's not that bad, but I'm becoming a weird disliker of "wait until boss flashes green to open him up".

> hammer usage
I was a smart boy and enabled the tutorials again haha It immediately tells you.

Let me know what your take was on the final DLC!

So far I'm still doubting what to do. I kind of want to give the game another shot now that it's done, but I'm also kind of looking forward to uninstalling it tbh.

Right, I've had my sleep now, let's get in to it. Just gonna talk about things as I think of them so it might be a bit disjointed.

I (very stupidly) forgot to turn the tutorial prompts back on, and only remembered about 10 minutes before I finished the DLC. I'm going to put that down to not being in an action game-y headspace lately... very convenient excuse, but I'll make the most of it! Haha.

As soon as I replied to Roy telling him "it's not that bad!" regarding the Stone Imps, I struggled to kill them efficiently without the Full Auto shotty, as if to spite me. Maybe I got lucky with Ballista headshots the first time round and took them down that way. These sorts of enemies are an interesting point of discussion, I feel. On the one hand, it's another example of the devs doubling down on one of the more common criticisms of the game (discourags player creativity). This is a criticism that I've fought against before, and still disagree with. However, with enemies like the Spirit (and now to a lesser extent the Stone Imp), they are turning the game more into what it's being accused of.

Personally, I think they just about get away with this. Only being able to kill the Spirit with the microwave beam seemed kinda crappy to me at first, but it encouraged thinking about enemy prioritisation (do I go for the kill now and risk it possessing something even nastier, or do I try and avoid dying and take it on 1v1 at the end of the fight), ice bomb usage (you'll probably want to throw one down to cover you) and smart chainsaw usage if you still want to use the Ballista. I came to appreciate their inclusion over time. The Stone Imp is less egregious, having two weaknesses (as well as taking at least some damage from other weapons), still chainsaw-able at 1 fuel pip, and still able to be faltered. I think there's a place for these enemies in the combat loop, but I wouldn't ask for any more like them.

The Armored Baron was an okay addition. Thankfully, there are multiple methods of breaking his armour, so he doesn't feel too restrictive in combat. The Cursed Prowler was a little shit and gave me plenty of trouble. I don't think he's necessarily a bad addition, but he feels a little more like artificial difficulty to me, so I'm yet to form a conclusive opinion on him. I expected the Chaingunners to be a much bigger threat than they were. Despite their shields being indestructible from the front, I still fought them using tactics I used against the Shotgunners (explosive splash damage). The Screecher is probably the best new enemy as it makes you think about whether or not your biggest and baddest weapons are safe to use in any given moment. The Marauder/Screecher arena towards the end of the game was very cheeky, but I liked it.

The Sentinel Hammer is honestly great. I was curious how they'd manage to fit another meaningful weapon in to the combat loop, and I think it's fair to say they did a really good job with it. Making it have synergy with your other equipment was clever, the in-game feedback is satisfying, it introduces a sort-of new enemy property with stuns (which aren't the same as the existing falters, although serving a similar purpose). I've not got many complaints about it, other than saying it's maybe a little too effective? Having it recharge through combat is much better than the Crucible pickup system in the base game, but getting a charge off of 2 fodder glory kills is maybe a bit too easy. Maybe changing that to 3 glory kills would help.

Let's get the story discussion out of the way. Was there a story? I'm not really sure, because it's about as interesting and comprehensible as a sack full of bricks. I honestly paid as close to zero attention to it as possible, but I've seen some Reddit discussion claiming there are retcons of stuff established in the base game (big lol, if true) and plot holes, and that the "plot twist" invalidates the agency of both the entire storyline and the main cast of characters. I wouldn't know because I didn't even pay any attention the story in 2016, which is supposedly good according to the player base. Did it take itself more seriously and have more tonal consistency? Sure. Was it "good"? For me, not really. Par for the course with the genre, though. If I want a gripping story I'll play a different one.

Meathook platforming was a nice enough addition, enjoyable pace breaker between combat segments. They even managed to incorporate it in to some of the fights, which gets you thinking more about how you can use the Meathook for a height and mobility advantage in the base game and DLC1 encounters. Good design, I think.

The final boss - not too difficult once you remember to use the MASSIVE HAMMER the game gives you (duh), but not a fun boss even with the right strategy. Boss fights are really not a strength of the reboot Dooms. They were better in the first game, but even they didn't match the quality of the bosses in good third person action games. I'm struggling to think of a good boss fight in an FPS, now I think about it. I think Eternal's best boss is probably the Doom Hunter in the base game. No wait-for-the-green-flash mechanics with him.

The levels themselves were nice enough in their design, although I felt they were shorter than DLC1 - I didn't run out of lives in DLC2 so maybe not getting stuck on anything made it feel quicker. I can't help but shake the feeling that it seemed a bit... unfinished? There was a bit of an anti-climactic feel for me but it's hard to put a finger on exactly why. It felt a bit like I was being shoo'd away by someone who didn't really want me to be there.

I played on Ultraviolence and must say I found it much, much easier than DLC1. I think I've improved as a player since then so that will factor in to things, but it definitely seemed tame by comparison. Maybe I'll eat my words when I try it on Nightmare mode! There were also some nerfs to DLC1 that I believe weren't included in the patch notes, including making The Holt slayer gate easier (fewer Archviles, fewer Blood Maykrs, fewer Marauders) and removing the tentacles from the Possessed Tyrant bridge fight. I wonder what influenced them to go easier instead of harder, as all the signs pointed towards DLC2 being "fuck you" levels of difficult. Maybe DLC1 didn't sell as well as expected? Maybe Microsoft had some influence behind the scenes? Who knows.

Overall, I'm pleased with the DLC (both parts). I think it's good value for money and would definitely recommend it to people like me that keep coming back again and again. Like the base game, it isn't perfect, but I think they tried to cater to what the more ardent fans wanted, which I appreciate. DLC1 was Eternal cranked up to 12, whereas DLC2 feels like the devs thought "actually, we best turn it down to 11". I think Eternal has the best combat design I've seen in an FPS (although I've heard Ultrakill gives it a run for its money) and it belongs with other major action titles, regardless of it's sub-genre. It's already one of my all time favourites, and it's made that little bit sweeter by coming out at a time when microtransactions are still king and AAA gaming is consistently underwhelming. I hope they're still planning to release Master Levels and give us a NewGame+ in spirit. It might be time to call it a day with Eternal for others, and that's fair enough, but I think I've still got more to do. Bring it on!

The Armoured Baron is a good new enemy imo, since it has a lot of elements to it. You can OHKO his armour using specific weapons on the ball, which is generally in motion but stops for a key attack. Unlike "green flashes", this one can always be hit, but it's harder outside of the green flash - which is neat. You can also nuke his armour with plasma or just nuke the ball in general. There's a level of choice based on your positioning, confidence in aim and ammo count which I think is pretty cool.

In terms of the stone imps. Let me note that, I don't think it's bad. I just don't like the phylosphy behind it. If you have to force me to use a certain tool in this way, then that shows to me there's an underlying problem i.e. not all weapons are equally useful. It'd be like MGS2 having an enemy that can only be stunned with the Coolant Spray to 'promote variation' or something or another. Going into the problem that most guns in Doom Eternal still have a usability problem, it's all about DPS and some just lose out on that. Especially since there's so many enemies on screen.

Screechers are great, absolutely.

> story
I liked Doom 2016's "who cares about the plot? Doomguy doesnt" style, while those that wanted to could delve into codex entries. This entry though...felt like a heavy metal music video at some points. It did take itself a bit too seriously later-on though.

Also, kind of bummed we couldn't use the dragon. Had kinda hoped for a unique aerial fight there or something. Despite my grievances with games like W101, I do feel it is sometimes cool to have an off section like GoW2 does or w/e.

> meathook platforming
Was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

> difficulty
Yeah it really got a lot easier. I died once in the entire DLC, and with died I mean really lost a life. I had the rune for "gain back a lost life" on which made the game pretty easy.

> cursed imp
I like the idea of him, though the removal of the dash is a bit much imo. Still, he's a fun idea. He's extremely volatile, dangerous but can die super fast too. Very fun and interesting enemy imo.

> hammer
I think it could've been done a bit better for sure, but they finally made glorykills worth doing as a result and having an AoE stun is just great. Also fun that it extends staggers, which is a neat touch.

> eternal best combat design
Hard to say for me imo, if we're talking pure combat it still has to fight against the 90's games like Blood, Doom 1, the Duke etc. which are pretty beefy foes. Let alone Painkiller, Quake etc.

One thing I did feel vastly missing here was level design. I liked the way levels looked and the variation they offered, but there were nearly zero secrets. I think the game devolved too much into a secret being something meaningful i.e. statue, collectible etc. A secret could just be a powerup, some ammo or armour etc. Perhaps 'bonus armour' that goes beyond your base 150. Something that at least promotes exploration.

> blood makyrs
My personally least favourite enemy btw.

> lowering difficulty
Probably to make it easier to beat so people would play DLC2.

> master levels
Really wish they'd boost this up. The game has a ton of potential in this regard i.e. Bloody Palace, replayable slayer gates, NG+, Hammer in Campaign etc.

> FPS bosses
I had this discussion before and though it's a bit cheating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj6SO2WMA7s
I mean, the combat in that game is FPS. Aiming isn't key though, but it really had *excellent* boss design. What made it work I think was that you could always do something. You were always shooting. Shooting didn't necessarily deal damage, but it opened up a weakpoint for example. A lot of FPS games should take a long-hard-look at the bosses in these games.

> great action game
I give it a lot of hate but only because I love it. I agree it's absolutely fantastic, especially since it came out NOW. Of all times. From a western dev. I still feel it lacks some things to put it anywhere close to my action top-10, but it's always on my mind which is a big big plus.

NOTE: making the final boss apparently damage-resistant to the UnMakyr really shows that they just don't care about that weapon.

NOTE2: one thing I noticed and found weird/annoying was that some fights immediately despawned the filler enemies when you killed the regular foes, while others didn't. That sucks since sometimes I'd like to heal/armour up with the remaining zombie.

> Weapon usability
The only weapon/mod I think is pretty useless is the Full-Auto mod (but not anymore! Thanks Hugo). It's outshined for DPS by several weapon combos and the mastery ability to regen shotgun ammo isn't really that useful IMO when most decent players will be savvy enough to use the chainsaw sensibly for recovering ammo. The Microwave Beam is another one people mention as useless, but also one I've really grown to like for stun-lock combos. Remote Detonation on the Rocket Launcher is great, but generally outclassed by the Lock-On Rockets which are too strong and nuke pretty much everything in the game. I think the "certain weapon for certain enemy" criticism is exaggerated, with the exception of the Spirit and the Stone Imp. I think having 2 out of 20-30 enemies be that specific is something you can get away with.

> 2016's Story
I agree that it's better, but I honestly don't rate it very highly. I feel like it's a game that's a bit at odds with itself (this applies for Eternal, too). They present the game in the "Doom Slayer doesn't care" way as you've suggested, and have throwaway characters like Olivia Pierce, the ending (which is basically just acknowledgement that there will be a sequel - it's not satisfying or interesting in any way, in my opinion), and then counter those things with the massively (over)developed lore that's sat in the codex entries. I get the logic in saying it's good that it's there for those that want it, but I think I'd prefer for a game to either keep it simple or make the effort to tell me it's story if it's worth hearing.

> Combat design
Subjective one, of course. I love the mobility of Eternal. I really like the addition of the dodge over just strafing as a defensive option. I really like the combat arenas as they don't offer places to hide - you can't backtrack through the level, peak round doorways to take pot-shots etc. You have to play smartly and confidently. You can dash away from enemies, of course, but with no regenerating health and relatively small arenas, it won't be too long before you come across something else that wants to kill you. I think almost every ability you have is useful, which is an improvement over other FPS games where (for example) the shotgun is obsolete to the double barrelled shotty, the pistol is obsolete to the akimbo pistols etc. I was impressed with the amount of statuses and attack properties there are, the challenging difficulty, pacing and frequency of unlocks. Resource management keeps you thinking in a way where a lot of other shooters allow you to switch off.

That said, I still really enjoy old school Doom. Before Eternal, the original Ultimate Doom was probably my favourite FPS. I think it might have been somebody on here that likened it to a shmup played from an FPS perspective, and it's a good analogy. Old Doom's secrets are much better (on the basis of being much more secret!) and there's a lot more exploring to do, although the levels do become a bit maze-like in some instances. It really is a timeless game though - I can't imagine a point in the near future where OG Doom stops being a good FPS. 2016 and Eternal obviously try to evolve the 90s golden era FPS formula in to something new, so it's fair to compare them to those titles. I've still not played Blood or Painkiller (blasphemy, I know) and to be honest, I'm not really a Duke 3D fan (perhaps more blasphemous again?!). Regarding the boss topic, I haven't played Metroid Prime either, but it's one I feel I should get around to at some point.

> Master Levels
Agreed, there's so much they could add to the game that wouldn't require creating new levels, enemies, weapons etc. A full campaign's worth of Master Levels and some sort of Horde Mode would be brilliant. I believe Hugo has said they plan to continue developing content and adding stuff "some people have been asking for" - I suspect this would be either a Horde Mode or maybe a Deathmatch mode if they're finally willing to sink with their Battlemode-shaped ship. I can understand why they treat it so much like its their baby - its fairly unique and sounds good on paper, but it just isn't that good in execution.

> Unmaykr/Unmakyr/However you spell it
I laugh every time I think of this gun. How is it still so useless? In a game where the developers have so carefully tried to give everything something useful, how has the game's secret superweapon been left with nothing?! On the subject of weapon usefulness, there is a YouTuber called the Doom Penguin who does informative videos on the various weapons/mods - they taught me quite a lot that I didn't realise before (check his playlist): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCalMe4bgGKK61amQBvR4xNg

> Music
Just wanted to bring this up - what did you think of the DLC2 music? It's just occurred to me that I couldn't hum a single battle theme from it to you and that horrifies me. Was it really that forgettable? Was I not paying enough attention?


EDIT: THE UNMAYKR OHKO'S STONE IMPS - HUGO BEST DEV?

EDIT EDIT: AND dashing while Chaingun Shield-ed is a OHKO too!? (can't post two stolen facts and not give credit)

> weapon usability
I think 'useless' is less of a good word, more 'outshined'. Now I'll be the first to note here: I'm a hypocrite in this scenario. Ninja Gaiden II has a similar problem (UTs too good), yet I keep pressing players to "use more of their tools". As each has a specific usage and allows the mechanics to shine more.

In that sense I should give D:E the same respect, but I don't. And I'm having trouble pinning down why. Perhaps it is the difference in how the games handle 'states', how to manipulate enemies, ranged vs melee? No clue. I do feel that I'm being a bad player when I don't play smart in this game though. In terms of useless, none of them are imo, but they are either extremely outshined/situational.

As noted, not bad. Not useless. Just outshined or situational. The Shockwave is king against the super-duper tentacles since it OHKO's them iirc. Microwave beam has its uses i.e. low-HP explodes (think that one would be a lot better if it didn't slow you down). HMG's regular shot is ... I guess nice to get weaker enemies in a staggered state. But I think you know what I'm going for here.

> shield and unmakyr nuke imps
I smell a patch coming.

> mobility
I kind of want a return to the classic movement, i.e. what quake/unreal etc. had. That type of movement is still just so unreal once you get into it, but this is a nice balance for casual/midlevel players since the movement in those games was galaxy-level tier haha.

> Greg risking a ban by noting his blasphamous takes
It's not that bad honestly, I still have to get into Blood propper. Duke honestly is more fun when you take your time with it, the game is really, really built around secrets. And there's a fuckton of them. If you just play the levels they are ... okay I feel. Great shotgun though.

Metroid Prime though, yeah that's highly recommended. I know it gets a ton of praise which makes people skeptical, but it really is like RE4/MGS2 - a timeless classic of that era. If you were to play it today you'd think it was crafted by some of the best designers around today...except it's nearly 20 years old at this point.

> battlemode
It is almost praise-worthy how much they stuck to their guns on that one.

> music
Honestly, I kinda liked the D2016 one but it really just isn't my genre. I much prefer the OSTs from games like Painkiller, that really got my blood pumping. D2016 was the closes I'd ever come to liking that style of music. D:E...This just...does nothing for me. It's a bunch of sounds. The DLC was completely forgettable in that regard.

> nightmare
Just finished the first stage, honestly a lot of fun. Super easy though.

> Weapons
Fair comments. Yeah, the standard fire modes for the Combat Shotgun and Heavy Cannon are basically only good for fodder staggering once you get maybe half way through the game. I find the Combat Shotgun's standard shot to be a little inconsistent too, but maybe I'm just not accurate enough to consistently put enemies in to a one-hit stagger.

I didn't try it, but do you know if you can Meathook/Chainsaw the Chaingunners? Not sure if their shields have the same properties as the Shotgunner, other than being indestructable.

> Patch
If they patch those OHKO tricks on the Stone Imp then I...will do nothing, but I'll be very disappointed. Just let us have some fun Hugo, ffs. The pros keep steamrolling your game anyway, no matter what odds you stack against them.

> Metroid Prime
I have a feeling I know what you're going to say here, but: Gamecube or Wii version?

> Movement
There is a sort of brilliance to old-school Doom's "ice skating" movement. I have less experience with Quake (the first one), but I enjoyed that game too. I've been meaning to get a source port up and running for Quake 3 and run some bot matches on that to get a feel for it. It's one of those games that always looks great when you see gameplay of it.

> Music
I really enjoyed Eternal's OST. 2016's is good too, but I like Mick Gordon's groove metal-y style in the sequel. Andrew Hulshult composed TAG1/2 OST (alongside David Levy), have you heard any of his stuff? He's done the soundtracks for Dusk, Amid Evil, Proteus and others. He might be more to your liking when he isn't trying to make music that sounds a bit like Mick's.

> Nightmare
I should really give TAG1 a try on Nightmare some time. I'm wondering if TAG2 is even as hard as the base game - I guess it's maybe a bit harder? The enemy compositions are more difficult but you start out fully kitted, have the bonus rune and get the Hammer early on.

Haven't got DLC2 yet but I'll probably pick it up soon. Some thoughts on base game + DLC1:

>bosses
These are horrendous in almost every FPS, and this game's no exception. Since Doom 1/2 have bad bosses, the genre never really developed a tradition in that area, and now they all just kinda suck. The usual problems such as uninteresting attack/movement patterns, forced waiting, whacky difficulty, etc. are all here in varying measures. Ultrakill and Metroid Prime (forgot about this one, it is an FPS I suppose) are the only FPS games I can think of with good bosses, and I doubt it's a coincidence that both take inspiration from the non-FPS games DMC3 and Super Metroid respectively.

>difficulty
DLC1 was quite hard on UV, never got around to doing it on Nightmare. Apparently it got nerfed though? Regardless difficulty seemed to be in a decent place for the game in general.

>story
I'll preface this by saying that this doesn't really matter that much. 2016's story was a black comedy of sorts about corporate greed. NPCs babble on to you about their high-minded goals while Doom Slayer ignores and interrupts them, it was hilarious and perfectly matched the gameplay. Eternal on the other hand drank its own Kool-Aid, Doom Slayer now seems to care about the various convoluted lore bits and stops to let villains say their spiel before killing them, akin to a Saturday morning cartoon or a superhero comic book. Of course, you can just skip every cutscene, the game is vastly improved by doing this.

>mobility
I like how the mobility turned out in Eternal: basic tools like jump, dash are easy to use, while the more advanced stuff like meathook, ballista, and environmental objects have nuance to explore. For me it's important that the basic speed is fast, I like bhopping as much as the next guy but Doom 1/2's movement has an elegant simplicity that reminds me of shmups: fast and no-frills.

>level design
I still think the developer that can fully merge the old, complex levels of classic FPS with the newer style combat will have a golden formula on their hands. ARC Complex Master Level has a feeling of forward momentum (with some arenas to break it up) that I was really getting into, sort of like Half-Life but in a more combat-centric way.

>music
Mick Gordon stuff (2016 + Eternal) is amazing IMO, Hulshult (DLC1) is alright.

>overall quality
This game has some dumb stuff but I'm so glad it got made, they are shooting for the right kind of game. If more games were trying to be Doom Eternal than the industry would be in a much better place.

>Blood
Play that shit. Movement, weapons, levels, cultist enemies, art style, sound are all good. Use NBlood or BloodGDX, last I checked (~year ago) Fresh Supply was still kinda broken, with the Voodoo Doll being way too precise and some jumps being much harder than intended. I think Nightdive, the studio behind Fresh Supply, wanted to keep fixing it but Atari, the IP holder, didn't care enough to let them.

Didn't take long but there's a mod that allows the Hammer to be used in DLC1 which I'm going to give a spin later-on. Kind of bummed that all the Doom mods are apparently hosted on a discord-server which is a terrible idea imo.

> chainsaw chaingunners
It gave me an "invalid target" notification, so I guess not.

> pros keep steamrolling the game
I think that's an interesting thing, we're still seeing players break new ground in games like Ninja Gaiden to this day, with the first "ultra nightmare" run being completed a few weeks ago. Yet Doom Eternal has been mastered one the first day, I wonder why that is or where that change comes from. Some players even beat DLC2 on UN on their first try and first go through the DLC. Is the skill level of players that much higher? Is the game that much easier?

Regardless, Hugo and co. wanting to have a challenging game hasn't really worked out for them.

> Metroid Prime
The Wii version is pretty much superior in every way possible. The only reason to play the 'cube version is for older versions (NTSC had some fun sequence breaks) and for using the original controller. I do prefer the GC version for the controller as that was the 'intended' playstyle, but the Wii version is seriously fantastic (and comes with its two sequels).

> fusion of modern and past
I agree that would probably put gaming on its head, which is pretty cool if someone were to pull it off. If one thing would really have to go imo it would be the focus on arenas. A few are fine, but having missions basically be arena > platforming > arena > platforming > arena; gets stale. Foundry in Doom 2016 is probably as close as we'll get it these days, seriously fantastic level that really has the best the series offered, from hidden weapons, out of the way armour pickups and even ambushes that were triggered if certain paths were walked. Fantastic stuff.

> DLC2
Almost finished it on Nightmare and honestly really enjoy it. Some stuff still rubs me the wrong way but it is minor. Very enjoyable!

> Blood
IIRC Fresh Supply was fixed last year with a massive patch, CIVI also made a vid about it IIRC that it was now a very good port.

> Mods
I saw that one, sounds fun to play with. Agreed, having the mods hosted on a Discord is a bit crap. I joined their modding discord a while ago but haven't tried anything yet.

> Difficult game
What they've succeeded in doing is making a pretty difficult game for novice-average FPS players. The average players will either improve in to decent players and enjoy the game, or fail and complain about how unfair it is. I just find it so weird how they doubled down on the "too hard" criticisms of the base game when designing DLC1, but then when DLC1 was considered "maybe a little bit too hard in some fights" DLC2 got a pretty noticeable nerf. Seems like a very sudden shift in priorities. I think this is probably explained by Doom being the most commercial/least niche "proper" action game. Can't think of any Japanese action titles getting nerfs, off the top of my head. I assume with the reputation that it has that NG never had anything like this back in the day?

> Arena combat
How do you think this differs from the combat environments in other action games? To be honest, I really like the arena structure, and my first thought is that it works because it's basically what happens in third person action games. You aren't constantly fighting in arenas in those, but there are plenty of fights in those games that are in some sort of room or environment where you can't leave until you win. Do you think Doom just relies a bit too heavily on arena combat compared to other games?

> Metroid Prime/Blood
I do need to get round to these, at some point... feel like I say that about a lot of games!

> difficulty
Nioh had a pretty big difficulty balancing problem for a while, where the developers would constantly take away overpowered or interesting tools as it was not 'their intention'. PS2 era games tended to have the reverse problem (harder versions in PAL regions). Platinum got pretty casual friendly with W101 remastered. But I admit I'm pulling on straws here.

To note, D:E has (from what I can gather) already sold more than 5 million units. That puts it in PS2-era God of War territory, way ahead of what DMC enjoys today (~3 million iirc). So it's a pretty big action title, might even be the biggest around currently if we don't count the cinematic masterpieces. So it is understandable they want to 'appeal to a wider audience' in some way.

It strangely reminds me of World of Warcraft. That game had some uber-tier dungeons in the end game, and always before the next piece of content hit (usually the one with a pricetag), they'd heavily nerf all the content so that players would try to come back and finish the old content just in time for the new. Might be something similar here.

> arena
This is, mind you, a gripe I have with the genre en-mass. Games like DMC, NGB and GoW had the right idea with being adventure/ exploration games that just happened to have good combat. Doom was similar. When they had arenas they stuck out as 'the fight to beat'. DMC3, NGII etc. went more the arena route (though sometimes without locked doors, allowing for backtracking to break stuff). By comparison NG3:RE is just a hallway slasher. Walk > fight > walk > fight basically.

The downside of this imo is that enemies feel more like pawns instead of creatures in the area (if you get me), but also that you eventually run out of 'escalations'. You can only throw 2 Marauders at me once, you can't do it twice for the same result. By having less arenas, those that are there stick out more and also have more personality. The 'blue room' in DOOM with all the pinkies (D2 I think), is a classic arena fight, but sticks out since it's one of the few (and even it can be skipped).

In Doom 2016 I mostly remember the arena fights since there weren't that many of them either. And those that were there were epic showdowns. In D:E it kind of all becomes a blur. Ironically the fights that stick out the most to me is the Pinky one with the barrels in DLC2 which was good.

> Metroid Prime
Well, you just experienced RE4 iirc, so go for it. It isn't a long game (8-10 hours) but it is as close to perfection the medium has gotten imo.

> Pulling at Strings
To be fair they are worth mentioning, some of those I didn't know or had forgotten about. Was the W101 nerf the care-package things that let you unlock stuff early or were you referring to something else?

> Arenas
That's fair, there is a lot the genre could do to try and make the downtime in between fights more engaging. Some titles seem to know they don't really have anything to offer outside of combat so they don't bother trying (Urban Reign is a good example of this). Most of the best (or at least best-selling) games in the genre seem to be ones that go more down the lines of "action-adventure with good combat" as you say.

> Metroid/RE4
I think it was last summer I played RE4, so given the game's age, yeah it was pretty recently! Haha. That's very high praise, I'll have to give it a shot.

> W101
Care-package, but also the excessive tutorials that were added and fact that iirc the dodge and block were reduced in cost and the game really points at them with neon signs saying "buy these". Not really nerfs, but it is catering to ... less mentally capable players haha.

I think Nintendo also does it quite frequently through its absolutely excessive tutorials. The Super Mario Galaxy 2 Tutorial DVD comes to mind (check it out if you haven't, it's hilarious).

> arenas
It's a hard balance. As noted we've had this talk befdore a lot. I think using the game's mechanics alone in minor instances can be enough i.e. shooting a bell in RE4, punching a door in God Hand or wallrunning in NG:B etc.

Doom might already master it if exploration was a tad upped with more optional armour pickups or something similar.

> MP
I'm curious to hear how you'll enjoy it or not. It is an old game that most experienced at release, when it blew them away. Would be interesting to see a modern opinion on it, if it aged gracefully. You played any of the 2-D Metroids?

>DLC2
Played the first 2 levels on UV, man have I gotten rusty. Liking it a lot overall, the Spirits are much less obnoxiously used than DLC1 and the Hammer is cool, even though I'm not using it as much as I should be.

Stone Imps are silly but Unmakyr one-tap cleans them up well. Screamer is really cool and creative. Chaingunners are okay but I would have liked to see them be treated similarly to Doom 2, as a fragile area control enemy. Maybe the game couldn't support something like that?

>Blood Fresh Supply port
Unfortunately it's still kinda broken even with the latest patch, here's a list of inaccuracies: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1010750/discussions/0/1644292444647662838

Apparently Mayo started quite a fire with his review on TAG2, understandable since he was quite...salty/bummed in that review. It's interesting since this might be the first time for me that I'm experiencing this on the other side of the fence.

TAG2 is undoubtably a more toned down vision of D:E. It retroactively nerfed some things, it's a tad unfinished (probably Covid related), it's easier, lots of reskinned foes, lower difficiulty and insanity. If this had been NG, DMC or anything else, I'd have been in their camp. Yet because I play D:E mostly casually these days, I'm finding myself very much enjoying TAG2, even moreso than the basegame and especially more than TAG1 which was made for "Raeng who is super into Doom Eternal like NGII" people haha.
I found myself thinking at one point "what's the harm", only to try and spin it around thinking "what if NGII got a DLC like this" and it turned my face sour haha. Just a little brainfart, but a weird experience for me tbh in terms of the hobby.

> Blood
Interesting, that's a pretty insane list not gonna lie. I really should take the time to get into the game. What would be the best 'true to form' version now you'd say? BLoodGX?

>Blood
NBlood and BloodGDX both work, I think there are minor differences between the two but nothing to worry over. You should have all the original files that you need in the Fresh Supply install.

> Mayo
I sometimes feel he's a little too "my favourite game is better than your favourite game" but generally I like his content, particularly the tech/strategy stuff. Always good to have players sharing their knowledge for others to learn from.

I must say I was very surprised by how negative his review was - I kinda expected him to overlook the issues because it's D:E and he absolutely loves it. I respect him not backing down on criticising one of his all time favorites. Even though I enjoyed the DLC I can't say I disagree with most of his points. I watched his review before I went to bed last night, I remember a handful of his complaints so I'll comment on what I remember.

They've quietly removed quite a lot of enemies from TAG1 and it's pretty needless, IMO. People should be able to just step down a difficulty - that's what they are there for. They've also nerfed the Arachnotron across all modes. Why? Who can't beat the game because of the Arachnotron? It's such a weird decision. There's also claims that the Blood Maykrs have been nerfed - I did think that they were easier than I remembered from TAG1 but wasn't confident enough to say for certain. I was looking forward to beating TAG1 on Nightmare but now I know I'll be playing the watered-down version which is disappointing.

There were comments on the audio mixing (is THIS why I had nothing to say about the music?!) and some sound effects being played too loud/often. I'm on-board with these criticisms, the Summon-Wolf howl is now very loud in the mix and it's a bit tiresome to hear so often.

I don't really agree with the idea that the levels aren't "Doom" enough. I thought this was a weird complaint. Maybe I just don't care enough about the visual aesthetics of the game to complain about it. However, I did think the Dark Lord would live somewhere a bit more... dark and hellish? I'm not really bothered about the new stun sound effect either. It is goofy, but I'm okay with an extra audio-visual cue for gameplay purposes.

There is a definite unfinished feel to the DLC, even if its generally good content. None of the new enemies have completely new character models, bit disappointing. Reclaimed Earth has re-skinned sections of previous missions set on Earth - clever callback or convenient use of existing assets? Signs point to the latter, unfortunately. Oh, and those human enemies in Immora that are just a multiplayer model from 2016, can't be chainsawed or glory killed and just keel over and explode from one hit? Did they add those in the day before the DLC dropped? What a weird and obviously unfinished (and unnecessary) enemy.

I don't think the Hammer "completely breaks" the combat loop as Mayo suggests but I do agree that you earn it too quickly. If you use it to stun an enemy that has two weak points you can restock your Hammer almost as fast as you use it. It does give you a lot of resources, which I think helped me do a continue-less playthrough (I did lose lives in a couple of fights, thanks Cursed Prowler).

I just can't help but feel there's been some corporate interference somewhere. They've gone from making DLC 1 "Fuck you" levels of difficult to toning things down in the base game which have been fine for a year, but are now apparently not. Hugo has insisted that the upcoming Master Levels will maintain the high level of challenge people expect, which is good.

Tbh, I think the retroactive nerfs are worse than toning down TAG2. TAG2 is still fun for what it is, but so was TAG1 for what that was. A big part of the game's enjoyment is improving to overcome the challenges you face, so to have stuff made easier across ALL difficulties is a valid cause to complain, I think. There was already a crutch for non-Nightmare modes in the Sentinel Armor (I don't even know how it works because I've never used it). If you're playing on Nightmare you should know you're gearing up for a challenge. Nobody complains DMD is too hard in DMC. Did people complain GMGoW was too hard in the GoW reboot? I don't remember that being nerfed, but with that being a cinematic masterpiece title you'd have thought people would be straight in there to complain that they couldn't beat it.

As you say Raeng, maybe if it was NG you'd feel differently. People will feel differently based on how passionate about a game they are, it makes sense. I'm not suggesting how much anybody else should care - Doom is not ruined for me by these nerfs but they are a shame, I think. Isn't the reduced intensity of encounters one of the reasons Sigma2 is considered inferior to NG2? Are they Sigma-fying D:E? Haha.

> MP
No, not played any Metroid titles. As a kid/teen I always had the Sony or Microsoft consoles, so Nintendo gaming is only something I've gotten in to more in the last 5 years or so, and even then, I've still only played a handful of first-party Nintendo games (mostly on Switch)! Metroid, Zelda, Mario... my experience with all three is pretty lacking, to be honest. Can I even call myself a real gamer? Haha.

> Blood
Thanks for the recommendation on the alternative engines. I think Blood looks the most interesting of the major Build engine FPS titles. I think my experience with Duke3D might have put me off trying Build games - I played the Atomic edition of that and there's something about the up/down look which just feels... wrong. I think it's because it's not true 3D, the environments kind of warp in this weird way to maintain the illusion. I preferred Doom's horizontal-only aiming.

Note that Mayo apparently took the video offline. He's going to redo it it seems, I admit I was surprised as you were. I fully expected him to handwave it.

> difficulty nerfs
I'm in the same camp as him, just nerf Normal Mode. If you're going to play on the highest difficulty setting, you should not get any mercy and it is weird that they are downplaying that mode. The optimist in me thinks it might just be a glitch, of the changes to Normal being accidentatly also made for higher settings. That might be what's going on.

The Blood Makyr I noticed as well, as I distinctly recall them being harder. Did some comparisons and they made his charge time longer in his attack and opening, which imo is a pretty solid change. Wasn't a fan of this enemy at all.

> re-used assets
Personally, I don't mind it at all. Plenty of great games do this and at times even to great effect like how some enemies in DMC1 are just Dante reskins. That said you can definitely notice that time was an issue and some arena's were reused or unfinished.
The Inmora soldiers were just a fun 'power moment' I feel, there to make the Slayer feel powerful or what not. They were completely gone after the initial fight IIRC, so I find that to be a bit of an overblown complaint, though it is still absolutely valid.

In regards to them not feeling DOOM'y, I've had that for nearly the whole game at this point. Doom Eternal had a few Doom'esque levels, but most felt very different than what the series has done. Which, imo, was what made it so good. You wouldn't see stuff like Cultist Base in the originals or even 2016. TAG2 really feels like a super-heavy metal album, and I also got quite a lot of Painkiller flashbacks in the first mission tbh.

> hammer
It's broken for sure, but I kinda like it. Fun animation, insanely powerful, plays into the mechanics. It does make pickups even less relevant though and it is great for a powertrip. If anything it is at least more interesting than the Crucible while also promoting Weakness/Glory kill usage which was going out of style. Does need some balancing though.

> TAG1
I think that one was solid looking back, especially the swamps, but definitely catered to the elite crowd (which, as noted, I usually am but not in the case of this game). It kind of reminds me of the Nioh free DLC. Near the end of the game's lifespan we got 10 extra optional challenge maps that were absolutely out of this world. We're talking "here's the hardest three bosses at once, after 5 difficult waves" levels of hard, paired with others that had you fight 100 enemies in a row etc. A lot of players hated them, I loved them, but they were optional so I never saw issue with them. Just like how TAG1 on Nightmare is optional. It should've just remained unchanged.

That said I can understand them toning down TAG2, but didn't expect them to do it for Nightmare, on which it is still piss easy. I think the game could, ironically, really benefit from a third DLC. A campaign or optional challenge pack that doesn't introduce anything new, but instead focusses on upping the scale one last time.

> nobody complains about DMD
Oh yes they do (sadly) haha. GoW's reboot especially got a lot of flack for "give me god of war" difficulty at the time since it was too hard. Which just makes me question my sanity honestly. If you're selecting Hard....shouldn't it...be...like..you know? Hard?

> Doom Sigma
I wouldn't go that far haha, but it is in the same line. Sigma 2 is a huge, huge conversion of the game made from good intentions mind you (more stable framerate being one). But playing chapter 1 of NG2 and chapter 1 of NGS2 just..a lot of things come to mind.
If you have time, watching these two vids a bit side-by-side is... downright scary.

NGII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZdno-EIYFY
NGS2: https://youtu.be/7SWs8lkynZU

If we'd get a Doom Sigma it would be far worse. That said, the comparison is valid and it is why a lot of people felt Sigma 2 was inferior at the time. By comparison we barely have single-segment completions of NGII's chapters, while NGS2 has it of every mission with zero damage taken, and most of those were done in the first year of release. Sigma 2 has other offerings obviously to compensate like its multiplayer mode, but still.

So yeah from an NG mentality, I fully get it and respect that high level players are up in arms. My biggest question mark remains though: "why are they nerfing Nightmare mode". That part just really doesn't make sense to me.

> Nintendo games
They really are worth playing, if anything. I won't think anything less of you but some of the classics still haven't been topped imo like Super Mario World, Metroid Prime, some of the Zeldas, Pokemon Silver, Golden Sun (YESGODAMNIT), Splatoon 2, Ringfit - tons of unique games. With limited time being a thing I would recommend at least playing Super Mario World (SNES), Super Metroid or Metroid Prime (both are gold) and Ocarina of Time (mostly to see just how influential it is, and it is still great).

> up down aiming
Have the exact same thing, I just play with auto-aim and remove the up-down aiming. It really warps the camera in weird ways imo.

> Mayo
The video is down and he's redoing it? Really? For what? To pretend he likes it more than he does? I don't get it, haha.

> Nerfs
Agreed, you do these nerfs for difficulties below Nightmare and there's literally no outrage. Players who lack skill get a mode they're happy with, better players keep the mode they liked. It seems simple to me, at least. I wasn't really a fan of the Blood Makyr (I have no idea what the correct spelling is and it annoys me every time I type it!) but I don't think I'd have nerfed it quite as much as they have. After all, stun-locking with the Meme Beam or using the Chrono Strike rune (I think it's called?) were pretty effective ways to help you set up for a headshot. A bit of a nerf would be okay but they honestly gave me no trouble at all on Ultraviolent. They absolutely wrecked me in TAG1!

> Assets
There's definitely good ways to re-use assets that provide good content. I don't know, I guess it's just a matter of how it's done? In an "epic conclusion" DLC I guess I was just expecting more. Something shocking we hadn't seen before, a real "oh shit" moment. I don't hate the new enemies or anything, but none of them gave me that feeling. I thought the Chaingunners were gonna be horrible little bastards like in OG Doom, but they're pretty easy to deal with.

> Hammer
Agreed, I think it's great. Only thing I'd change is how often you get to use it. Much more interesting than Crucible mechanically, serves a better purpose in the combat loop (rather than just OHKO sword), requires more thought with it being an AoE attack and helping collect resources - honestly, much much better than the Crucible.

> DLC1
I guess somebody, somewhere at iD/Bethesda(/Microsoft?) has decided that they shouldn't be charging people for especially difficult content. As you say, there's nothing wrong with leaving Nightmare mode unchanged. Just had a thought that makes me laugh - the original Doom even warns you that it's Nightmare difficulty is unfair, yet it still makes in to the recent re-releases intact. They're a funny bunch, those devs/publishers. I'd welcome a DLC3 which was "no story, just challenges". It's a game that'd really suit it.

> Nobody complains about DMD (actually, they do)
Oh god, really? I'm not sure how I've managed to avoid that then. There are loads of action games I don't play on the highest difficulty - doesn't mean I need to cry on the Internet to get them made easier. I'll play them if/when I'm ready.

> Doom Sigma
I was being a little bit cheeky when I made the comparison but interesting to hear you note the similarities. I'm "working" at the moment but I'll check the NG videos later tonight.

> Nintendo
The ones you've listed there are just a small sample of what I need to catch up on! Haha. I did buy Splatoon 2 a couple of months ago but didn't really click with the motion controls. I should give it another go.

>Auto-aim
I'm glad you understood what I was trying to explain! What is the "true" way to play Blood? Did it have full free-aim in the original release?

From what I could gather he felt he was too negative and emotional and didn't want to incite a flamewar, let alone come over so elitist. Personally though, backpeddling won't really change that. Your take is your take.

> nerfs
A little rebalancing isn't bad, though it really should just remain a little tweak and it helps if it is "take one, add one". Perhaps make the animation slower, but increase their HP or damage output - something or another.

> asset reuse
One thing I'm finding more and more I'm playing it, is that it really feels like DLC2 of 3 - if you sort of disconnect the content from the fact that it's the 'epic finale' it is a fantastic piece of content honestly. New interesting foes, fun maps, fun secondary weapon addition, some new skins etc. The idea that it's the final one though, yeah I can see more and more that that would take the fun away for a part as it is lacking that hardcore appeal, but also that grand scale. The final level has some great backdrops but quickly leaves them for 'red reskinned Urdak' for example.

> hammer
I'd sooner nerf its potency personally, one of the fun things for me has been optimizing its usage and basically spam it instead of saving it for a rainy day (like I did with the sword) and it's a lot of fun honestly. Have to give special props to the animation, doing a melee-move in first-person and not have it disorient you or suck in general is an accomplishment.

> DLC1
I wonder if M$ had something to do with this. I honestly doubt it considering how 'pro gamer' they've been lately, but they have made weird decisions in the past.

> Doom Sigma
There's a reason that, despite it being nearly 10 years old at this point, there's still flamewars between NGII and NGS2 fans. Hell we even had one here.

> 'working'
Me too haha, you working from home?

> Nintendo
Take your time with their titles, they tend to not be too long and really have so much detail you won't appreciate them fully on a single run personally. Despite my dislike for the model, the "classic" consoles might be interesting for you, or the subscription service on the Switch.

>nerfs on all difficulties
Agree with the takes here. If you play on Nightmare, you get what you ask for difficulty-wise. The Master Levels seem like a perfect place to jack the difficulty up also, especially if they make Master Levels for the DLC missions.

>Blood up-down look
Yeah, the Build Engine in DOS does some strange warping to preserve the 3D illusion, however the source ports (NBlood, BloodGDX) don't have this. Mouselook was present at launch, it was in Doom too!

> Mayo
I suppose it's... commendable, that he's trying to quell all the abuse that people are dishing out over the DLC. However, it's not his responsibility to worry about. He's allowed to have and make videos about whatever opinion he has. I'm not sure how his revised video will be improved but I'll give it a watch when it's up.

> Assets
Good point on the DLC2 final mission - it looks great to begin with, with the epic war going on in the background (and an impressive amount of animation IMO), and then it's just replaced with a pretty barren area that looks like a re-skin of somewhere we've already been. I think we know where most of the time/budget went there!

> M$
I'm possibly getting a bit "tin-foil hat" with that one, but it just baffles me how much of a 180 they've done. All the stuff they said about making a tough experience, where they want to frustrate the player - not enough to make them angry, but enough to teach them how to get better. Now, the DLC apparently isn't for a challenge - that's what the Master Levels are for. It literally says (in jest) on the in-game difficulty selection for DLC2 that it's harder simply because it's DLC. There's just something not right with how contradictory it's all coming across. If the difficulty is an issue, why did they make DLC1 to be so challenging in the first place?

> 'Working'
Yep, been working from home for a year as of today! My typical work duties require me to be in the office, so my workload has been reduced since last March (luckily our company have decided not to furlough anybody). I've just been helping out with other bits and pieces when asked. How're you finding it?

>Nintendo/Classics
Funny you should mention them - I had the SNES Classic and was actually quite excited to play through some of the games, but I absolutely hated the controller. I don't know how similar it is to the original SNES controller, but I don't think I can get used to any of the old-school controllers that were pre-PS1/N64, with the prong-less designs. I ended up selling it for a profit on eBay (thanks Nintendo?) so it wasn't all bad.

> Mouselook
Doom 93 had full mouselook at launch?! That's crazy, I never knew that. Good to know the Blood ports fixed the warping, I guess those engines support true 3D graphics? I have so many games to catch up on that I should ban myself from buying anything new until I play through a bunch of them! Haha.

I just finished TAG2. I love the base game, even with all of its flaws, but I thought this DLC was pretty bad.

Most glaring thing for me: the new enemy types are mostly terrible. Mayo said something to the effect of “this is the perfect way to design an enemy” in regards to the stone imp. I’m really not sure how he came to that conclusion. The tutorials before every enemy type is already a failure in design. Making enemies extremely resistant to a large portion of your toolkit CAN work, but making it so that one weapon is the overwhelming favorite in every scenario is just lame. I guess I could use the unmaykr but why would I when the ammo is so valuable? It’s not a case of putting in equal effort or resources to achieve a cool result, it’s putting yourself at a disadvantage.

The other enemies aren’t much better. Cursed prowlers are stupid and of course the game wants you to use one specific thing for them. Armored barons are fine but when the armor is off they’re just barons, unless I’m missing something. The new maykr enemies(I’m bad with names) are probably the worst in the entire game.

The entire thing also just feels anticlimactic. Where are the unique encounters? Why is everything so dialed down? Why are the environments so bland? Why is the new platforming style so underdeveloped?

I’m also not a fan of the escalation encounters or whatever they’re called. We already had slayer gates, we didn’t need another form of “hard and crowded arena encounters” when that’s already what a lot of the game is anyway.

Final boss sucks ass. My least favorite thing about the entire game is the bosses aside from the Doom Hunter, and this dlc just continued that low point.

I hate being so negative, because I do love D:E, and have played through the game probably 6 or 7 times at this point. But I think they went so hard on the cuhrayzee that we got one dlc that was just trying to be as over the top as possible, and one that was completely limp dicked.

Hopefully for the next game they switch up the style somewhat. Maybe reduce the guns or combine their functions more, make the enemies slightly more unique, make exploration a bigger aspect, more resource management, etc. I doubt any of that will look cool in promo material though.

> Mouselook
Note that it only had horizontal mouse look IIRC. By default the mouse had you move as well which was really...unique haha. Moving the mouse forward would move you forward etc.

> menu popups
Some of them are a bit hand holdy for my taste, the constant reminder of "please play this way" and "please understand that we make a game like this" come off as a bit desperate.

> working from home
Good to hear you haven't been thrown to the wolves, you're in the UK right? Do you have any type of jobsecurity there in terms of perpatual contracts? In the Netherlands you can only work at a company for two years, then they have to decide if they fire you or keep you 'for life'. If they choose the latter they really have to work to get you fired, you basically have to not show up for work for a month straight, shit on the boss's desk and set the company on fire...for your first strike out of three haha.

Personally I honestly love working from hom though. I have a lot of colleagues with whom I don't have a 'bond' so to speak, so all the small talk always gets on my nerves and feels like wasted time. And I have the attention span of a goldfish, which works a lot better at home. At home when I don't feel like working I'll just draw, do laundry, paint warhammer, write stinger or w/e and then work when it suits me since I just need to make my hours per day. No need to do it 8 hours straight if you know what I mean. I take walks. Have a few cups of coffee. It's just really a more relaxing way of working for me and strangely I'm getting a *lot* more done as well.

> Nintendo games and controllers
Interesting. See that's the sort of stuff that catches my eye. I hated the NES controller for example, while people that grew up in that era loved it etc. What is your take on the Gamecube controller? What's your next aim regarding their games now though? Mario? Zelda?

@Infinity

> Cursed prowler
Got hit by one a session ago while I didn't have a bloodpunch which absolutely wrecked me. You don't want to get hit by it.

> platforming
Thought the hook-shot stuff was pretty fun, but it was also abannondoned fast I feel.

> next game
That would be an interesting question: where do you go from here? Personally I hope they ditch Doom for a bit, try their hands on something new. ID is definitely talented, but a change in pace/genre might be what they need to get excited again.

> Mouselook
Yeah, that was what I thought, horizontal only. I think I misinterpreted what was said.

> Working from home
Yeah, I'm in the UK. We don't have anything like what you've described, but it's quite normal for jobs to have a probationary period (in my place of work it's 6 months, which I think is pretty standard) where they can basically get rid of you for whatever reason if it suits them. If you're kept on past the probationary period, it's quite difficult to get fired after that unless companies choose to make you redundant on the basis that they can't afford to keep paying you long term. The only firing I know of at my current place of work was after a drunk guy was bothering a couple of women at the work's Christmas party. I don't know the details of what he did but I'd assume it was quite inappropriate if he lost his job.

I like being at home too - it's a shame my normal duties don't really lend to it. I would go for a walk on my lunch break in the city centre every day anyway, but it's nicer to go for lunchtime walks by where I live - quieter, more greenery to walk past, generally nicer. We've already been told that the plan for the future is to adopt a flexible working pattern where we will be able to split our week between home and the office, which is nice. They're not rushing us back in to the office either, they've been very accommodating with it to be fair to them. I've not missed spending £700 a year on train fares (and some of my friends based elsewhere in the country pay a lot more)!

> Nintendo
I quite like the Gamecube controller, but I don't feel it suits many games (particularly third-party ones). When compared to the PS2 controller, (I didn't have an OG Xbox) I find the C-Stick harder to work with for FPS games. Some games work better with the face buttons in the "diamond" layout, like the Tony Hawk ones. I'm not sure why they didn't feel the need to have two Z buttons (especially when they don't have clickable sticks, but the pro of that is the sticks last longer). I really like the controller for Smash Bros, even though I don't play it that much. I bought 3 extra controllers pre-COVID with the intention of having my friends over for multiplayer nights...still waiting on that!

> Next Doom game
This worries me a bit - how do they top Eternal? I think the fans are so conditioned to the gameplay loop that they might reject a future game which tries something different (even going back to 2016-style gameplay would upset them, I think). I'd like to see them try their hands at a different type of action game first. Maybe a new IP that they can just go wild with.

> working from home
My employer hasn't noted anything yet, though I do fear that once the doors open again we won't be allowed to work from home - they are too oldfashioned sadly. When that's the case I'll start looking for something else, as I quite enjoy this. And ditto on walks, walking near my home is pretty nice, lots of green, playground so always cheerful stuff going on, fresh fruitshop etc.

> travel expenses
Max I ever paid was 3300 per year and I still wonder just how I managed to survive with that, since the job didn't even pay that well haha. What kind of work do you do anyway?

> gamecube controllers
It is from the interesting time when controllers weren't universal, which was pretty interesting. Right now every controller is the same since it makes porting easier, back then it was no-man's land. I really like how first-party games worked so well with the controlescheme. How it would cycle through the button size in terms of importance. Very neat touch.

> post Eternal
They're on the verge of becoming FromSoft unless they do something drastic. If you double down now you'll forever be "that shooter dev" that somehow manages to throw in dubstep, demons and weaponswitching in their games. And if they make the jump too late people will just constnatly complay "why no Doom". I think now's a good time to jump to something new before they become stuck in DOOM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM97MtOuds4

Hugo got interviewed, and he notes that TAG1 will be changed back. He said he honestly didn't try to make it easier, just make the pacing better. Because he felt TAG1 was too 'over the top' constantly and too tiring. He also notes that Nightmare isn't for the hardcore players, the Master Levels are. But yeah then you get the issue...where are they?

Finished the DLC on nightmare. Never again haha. Mission 1 and 2 are really fun imo, but mission 3 is just a dull mess with the worst boss I've played since Dagra Dai.

You can't make the pacing of TAG1 better without making it easier, that's just the nature of how they've designed it. Not really sure how Hugo can say that, to be honest. How're you going to make it less tiring without removing some of the more challenging enemies per encounter?

Nightmare isn't for hardcore players? I know the Master Levels are a step up but the hardcore players got to their level by playing on Nightmare. I'm not sure where iD are going with these explanations.

Mission 2 and 3 gave me some pretty bad stutters on PC, I had to switch to the dynamic resolution mode which mostly fixed it. I hope that's something they can sort with a patch and it's not just a sign that my hardware isn't good enough! Got no chance of getting a new GPU in this market...

Had a pretty interesting conversation with a user on Twitter about this too: isn't this too close an communication between user and director? He's literally in the stream just talking to the players, talking about how Mayo is the 'community leader' etc and even 'asking them to make room for casual players'.

I've always felt that, even us in our glory, are just users who have no idea what we want until we see it and play it. We're not designers. We're consumers, players, gamers. Can't imagine if Kamiya or Itagaki would get this close to their consumers. Would probably drive them up the wall or reverse.

>who have no idea what we want until we see it and play it.

I don't know about that. Maybe there was a point when we didn't. Or maybe when we're trying a genre we aren't familiar with.

The fact that I ask so many questions about what level of customization RPGs have shows I know exactly what I want.

You know what you want in a new NG right?

>We're not designers.

Yet look at all the dumbass shit they make.
I don't think they know any better until they've all put it together. They probably scrap tons of concepts that didn't end up working.

Doom eternal is tough even on normal due to how aggressive the enemies are and you can't stay in one spot for too long to pick them off. Mobility is extremely important in this game and due to me dying alot on the 1st level made me realize that. oh yea getting to those weak spots too. overall, game is amazing.