Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition

Was curios about this and I think I found it. I love old action game videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08eWKsbce6M&ab_channel=HoChuang

That's the one!

Can't believe it's still around.

Omfg Ho Chuang. I used to devour his content. You know it's class-action gameplay footage when it's compressed to like 240p with sound being a crispy earbleeder.

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It's funny to see these clips, as they are ironically part of the problem why players can sometimes bounce so hard on DMC3 looking back. Just browsing that video you technically only see two(?) fights in the entire game, since they're the "style" fights (sometimes even with infinite enemies) giving a very weird expectation of what the game actually is.

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I had absolutely no idea Gigapede's energy blasts were reflectable. Mind blown!

Love a good bit of old school 240p high level gameplay. Great little relic of gaming's past.

Will continue here the discussion with @Memes of Monsoon

>Weapons & styles are much better balanced in 5 than 3
Aside from Cerberus in 3 everything is pretty well balanced. In 5 you have Faust which is the most broken weapon in the series, DSD which got hit by an heavy powercreep and a lot of moves which aren’t worth using most of the time (more about that later). For the styles, RG in 5 takes a lot longer to charge up to do the same amount of damage, and GS has some cool moves but it’s more complementary than anything else.

>I don't see how this is bad
It isn’t in fact, just that if you try to only use it like in 3 it won’t be the same. Aside from some of the aerial moves and Coyote A some of the most powerful GS moves require you to be a sitting duck.
Basically what I'm saying is that DMC3 is better at being DMC3 than DMC5 is at being DMC3 (just how DMC3 isn't the same as 5 even with the Style Switching mod).

>broken moves
Every red orb spending move with the white Hat, DT Percussion (guaranteed stun with little to no setup), Cav aerial moves in general (no JC required, great safety, massive damage and style gain), Round Trips (literally free damage) and Sin Inferno which is an instant win the moment you get to SSS. These are all moves with low risk and very high reward and don’t require that much skill to do. That said, aside from the hat they really aren’t that bad but still something worth noting, especially compared to 3.

>weak moves
A lot of ground combos have been done dirty imo (DSD combo A, B, KC combo A, B, D, Barlog’s kick combos) which is one of the major aspects I dislike about D5nte. The ground combos were excellent in 1 and remained pretty good in DMC3. Starting with 4 they got heavily nerfed for no reason and this got also into 5. They do low damage, are pretty slow, have bad cancel windows and have generally poor utility compared to the rest of his moveset.

>that choice isn't interesting
It is to me, and it’s well done given the game design. That’s why I don’t think it would work in 5. Also in 5 you have something analogous with the Breaker system, which lots of people disliked but I found the loadout choice and resource management interesting. How did you feel about that? I know some players really wanted an on the fly switch option for the Breakers.

>dual swords & nunchucks
This is probably the only bad weapon loadout since those weapons serve basically the same functions (multi-hit, wide reaching long combos with below average mobility). Also A&R has a decent Stinger equivalent.

>for a new player who has no idea what is coming next they are uninteresting
If the goal is to arrive to DMD, then you’ll have played the game twice already, and one time with the same enemy loadout. When I played DMD for the first time, I tried a mission with a loadout, saw if it worked and replayed it if it didn’t. It’s the same with the Breakers in 5.

>The better choice is to stick with DMC1 arsenal because it covers all bases
I played most of the time with A&R and Beo and had no problems. Reb is a great support weapon but it’s not fundamental and Beo’s DPS is nice but can be offset by other weapons in certain situations.

>style gain isn't hard in 3 either.the fact that style gain leads to Sin Dt alone makes it more interesting than 3.
It’s definitely easier than DMC3, both easier to get to SSS and to mantain it. I agree that it’s more interesting thanks to quadruple S (the style meter is only a factor in one (1) fight in DMC3 aside from the end of mission ranking) but if they wanted to make that ability so powerful they should have also made it harder to get to SSS, also to give a pragmatic use to some of the weaker moves.

>Faust which is the most broken weapon in the series

meteor move is OP but everything else seemed well balanced. its also got a cool gimmick.

>RG in 5 takes a lot longer to charge up to do the same amount of damage,

How long does it take in 5 compared to 3 ?

>GS has some cool moves but it’s more complementary than anything else.

What does 5 lack that 3 has?

>some of the most powerful GS moves require you to be a sitting duck.

I feel like you are inconsistent. Some times you criticize for not offering risk & reward system then you go back on that opinion.

> DT Percussion (guaranteed stun with little to no setup), Cav aerial moves in general (no JC required, great safety, massive damage and style gain), Round Trips (literally free damage) and Sin Inferno which is an instant win the moment you get to SSS.

All of the moves make the weapon unique which 3 lacks. Now you can choose to go with any weapon beacuse every weapon offers something interesting. Cav is slow and will punish player if they play recklessly.

>DSD combo A, B, KC combo A, B, D, Barlog’s kick combos)

what are these combos ? i don't remember much about combo strings.

>How did you feel about that?

Nero already has built in stinger, helm breaker & divekick equivalent in his basic kit so it doesn't bother me much. Breaker switching is whatever but i would have preferred on the fly customization. Nero's gameplay is gimmicky and unfocused so i don't really care about him much.

> If the goal is to arrive to DMD

the enemies in 3 become lankier as the difficulty increase . Due to limited weapons and styles the game becomes tedious not only that on repeated playthroughs it also loses effect since you become familiar with enemy encounters. I played two missions on DMD and dropped the game because my hands started to hurt from the button mashing.

>everything else seemed well balanced
It really isn't unfortunately. You can double jump, hold square and everything will melt without problems. Someone has said this before, but a good way to balance it better would have been if you could only use the orbs you collected in that particular mission. Even if you don't buy the damage upgrade it still does too much damage for no risk. I only basically use it for the Snatch type move.

>How long does it take in 5 compared to 3 ?
You can see it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIJM4iYZ-tc&ab_channel=M.SatriaWijaya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNXUlQyKNE&ab_channel=VincentTurnt
In 5 it takes a dozen attacks (or more) to fully charge up the meter, in 3 only about 5. Sure, in 5 a full meter deals more damage overall, but the one in 3 is much better at dealing damage per parried attack. Note that in 5 you can also fill it up in 5 attacks, but only if you block shit like JdC End. Also that gap in damage between the games can also be explained by the fact that the DT damage buff is stronger in 5 than in 3. I should do some testing but I'm too lazy to do that.

>you criticize for not offering risk & reward system then you go back on that opinion
Those GS attacks are fine, but I was talking about when taking into consideration GS as your only style like in DMC3.

>All of the moves make the weapon unique which 3 lacks
That wasn't what I was saying, but yeah I like those moves but they are pretty unbalanced overall.

>what are these combos ?
These are the normal ground combos Dante can do by pressing melee multiple times or the style button when you are in SM. Those have gotten pretty weak over the years when they were some of your main sources of damage and crowd control in 1 and 3.

>Nero's gameplay is gimmicky and unfocused
Agreed. Don't like him as much as I used to.

>my hands started to hurt from the button mashing
Why are you button mashing that much on DMD? For the jump cancelling or crazy combos? You can pretty much minmax the amount of moves you can do on DMD and still come out on top. You have to focus on crowd control and enemy positioning, otherwise you'll get bodied.
DMC5 was my first DMC game and my entry game into the genre. I played 3 after and loathed DMD at the beginning. Got stuck to M5 (the Jester + A&R mission) and quit there. It took a while for me to click with it.

What are we comparing between DMC3&5 exactly?

Comparing how well does DMC5 work when played DMC3 style (two Devil Arms, two guns, one style) vs DMC3 itself and weapon/game balance in general.

>work when played DMC3 style
Why compare this?

>weapon/game balance in general.
Aren't they like, running on different engines though?

Does it matter if RG is faster or Stinger does more damage in one and not the other?

>Why compare this?
The conversation started with Monsoon saying that he dislikes the DMC3 weapon and style limit and that, when playing with these restrictions, DMC5 is better than 3. I don't think that's the case and I'm explaining why.

>running on different engines though?
I don't think that matters too much. Games on various engines can be easily compared if they have the same base. At its core DMC5 still uses 3 as a base.

>Does it matter if RG is faster or Stinger does more damage in one and not the other?
Depends on who you're asking and the context in which those things are said. Imo they're important when talking about this comparison specifically.
Granted I'm probably fixating a lot on small details that don't matter to a lot of people but that's how it goes with these type of discussions. It's hard to put into words the feel you have for a game, which is something made by lots of little things, so listing those things is one way to do it.

>move differences between games
So if RG doesn't function like 5 like it does in 3, that's bad? Or is it just different? Or just wanting stuff you really liked in the previous games to be in the sequel?

>Granted I'm probably fixating a lot on small details that don't matter to a lot of people
I care about the details too so I get that.

Regarding the topic, I guess I see DMC3&5 as totally different things.

The debate originated also a bit since I felt that the moveset in DMC5 was bloated, which originated from DMC3 since in that game you could only bring two weapons and one style, so some moves had to be universal or, reversed, unique to a style or weapon to make them stand out. It makes no sense why ukemi is locked behind Trickster in DMC4 for example, but it does make sense it's tied to trickster in DMC3. In 4 and up it should've just been a universal ability since you have access to all styles anyway.

That was more my initial point.

>that's bad? Or is it just different?
It's not bad per se, but it is when taking into consideration the DMC3 playstyle. As a single use style RG is better in 3 than in 5, because in 5 RG is always present with the other 3 styles.
Personally I would have liked RG in 5 to be as powerful as the one in 3 for damage and cancels, but that's not part of this discussion anyway.

i will say that the style meter is really annoying to me in DMC 3 and i wish it didn't exist or i could turn it off, it's a little hard to block it out because it's so prominent on the screen and once in a while i catch myself varying my moves/weapons for the sole purpose of keeping the meter up. and that's an issue for me because once i start doing that then i'm sliding down the slippery slope of playing the game stylishly because that's the way my mind works on this matter, it's very binary; i'm either in the mode of efficiency or i'm being flashy.

that was why i was playing 3 like that to begin with, i didn't come into the game actively thinking it was meant to be played like that or wanting to play it like that, it was just the style meter, the limited amount of flashy stuff you can do in this game, and my muscle memory being dominated by playing DMC like that in general, that all lead me down that path; that's why it took me a little while to even realize i was in that mode. it's not something i typically have to be aware of.

One thing I do feel is neat is that orb-count is decided by your style-rank WHEN you kill the enemy. So you can for example be efficient, and then quickly do a quick style setup on another foe and go for a DT-explode or something.

That said, I do agree you could just turn it off. Especially in high-level play it basically does nothing.

>One thing I do feel is neat is that orb-count is decided by your style-rank WHEN you kill the enemy

i did not know zees

>That said, I do agree you could just turn it off

i just want it off my HUD is all. obviously the problem i have with it is very specific to me and i'll be able to totally block it out at some point so ultimately it's not an issue.

DMC 3 is a legitimate classic, glad it's in my rotation now

Replaying this a bit, this time trying to experiment more with stuff I didn't use.
I gave Cerberus a more thorough try and yeah, it still sucks. It's not even the lack of damage (even though that's important), but it's the lack of utility that kills the weapon. No launcher, no decent stinger like equivalent, small AoE for its attacks. There is no reason to use it over A&R except against element weak enemies. In SM it's a bit better but Cristal and its CC are basically the same as A&R and Flicker does really pathetic damage (and doesn't change in the air version like Nevan's Air Slash). Ice Age is interesting, since this game has really few iframe moves, but it's too clunky to use. Honestly they should have upped the damage and stun and made Crystal into a normal move.

Artemis is interesting. It's basically free damage: the weapon. Its normal shot against a single target does 70 damage (which isn't bad considering it has good range and can also be used in the air), and the multi-target shots do 50 and can hit everyone. In terms of DPS is decent, but GS is crazy. The GS shot basically gives you 400-500 free damage every few seconds or so and Sphere+Acid Rain is nothing to scoff at either.

E&I are also suprisingly good in GS. Alternating between normal shots and Twosome Time increase your style meter like crazy and even Rainstorm does good damage (around 300 on a single target if you mash hard enough) and crowd control.

Shotty is good but I have to study Fireworks more, since it seems only useful for cancels instead of its intended purpose, which is to be a get off me move. Gunstinger also has the most DPS out of any Stinger-like move in the game. Don't know how much damage the followup does, have to test this (since the pastebin seems to have some inaccurate stuff, like Charged Shot for the Shotty which does around 200 damage instead of the 130 the pastebin claims).

KA's grapple is cool and also does decent damage, but I'm not sold on Hysteric. I've seen some mention that it has some uses but I don't see them tbh.

Finally we have Nevan, a weapon I never really used that much. My interest in the weapon resparked after I saw these on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss0tDF-oDHg&ab_channel=vul4ak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7GEymDbs_U&ab_channel=vul4ak
Every physical attack brings Dante into the default stance, so you can chain everything fluidly. It's also great for buffering and in general does good single target damage (Combo 1 does 300 with the bats and 100 with the shockwave, while Combo 2 only summons the bats, but you are then free to switch weapons and the bats will still hit the enemy you've locked on to). I like how easy it is to buffer Drive with Nevan, made me use that move much more.

After this I will experiment with Doppel and QS a bit, before doing a full GS playthrough.

> cerberus
I always kinda liked that weapon in DMC3. The shield is a fun utility move, and its stinger auto-cancels into an enemy-step which is a neat way to go about it. You can chain it pretty fast if you're good on the timing (so >T X >T X etc). That said it is more of a 'style' weapon than an effient one for sure.

> mixing it up
I recently found remnants of my old 'pick a setup' script but couldn't get it to work properly. I'll have to fix that.

> EI
Very flexible weapon. IIRC isn't the charged shot tied to GS as well? That always rubbed me wrong.

> Nevan
Really fun weapon as it basically negates most enemies if you use it well. It's shockwave can parry attacks, even those from Enigmas and the jamsession (?) is basically a free SSS.

> Doppel
I used to play a bit of DMC3 co-op this way on the PS2 during lunch breaks which was fun, but if you are an insane person you can play with two controllers and do absolutely mindmelding shit.

>Cerb
It can be fun but it just feels so unsatisfying to use. The damage should have been increased by something like 20% but even that might not have been enough.

>charged shot tied to GS
Yes, a downgrade from DMC1 where they were always available and also super strong. I get why they did it but it sucks anyway.

>insane person you can play with two controllers and do absolutely mindmelding shit
Never thought of that, but some combomadder must have done it in some capacity.
For how much the community raves about combos there is still a lot of unexplored territory. I've only seen a few co-op combos (even in DMC5) and very few multi enemy combos. Fuck skyruns and gunraves, gimme something new.

Now I'm trying to do Leviathan with Artemis and Acid Rain melts the thing. It's insane.

I remember one combomadder being pissed at a clip of his being ruined because he got attacked during it, which should tell you a bit haha. I generally feel you though, too much focus on single target stuff. There's a few multiman/freestyle vids though, they're generally cool.

DMC3 has an absolutely bonkers TAS run btw that's worth checking, shows a lot of gameplay potential.

> doppleganger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ZhKu0uGCg
It's also TAS but absolutely insane to watch

>Nevan tech
*drools*

>combomadder getting mad
They're called that for a reason.

>TAS
Good shit. I've been watching more DMC3 vids lately and there is a lot of good stuff (old and new). I like even speedruns of the game since it's basically all Royal Guard porn, plus some combo video here and there. A shame that one of my favourites deleted his channel (MIZUKI), since he also had a couple of neat guides. He had a very calm and calculated playstyle, something you rarely see for this game.

>Mizuki
I'm following someone with that name on Twitter. Must be the same person since they post DMC3 stuff mostly.

Yeah he's that guy. He also set his Twitter to private while also making all of his YT videos private as well. Wonder if something happened. Just wish I could have saved them somehow.

Not too long ago he said something that set off the DMC elitist fags and then he started making all these pathetic apology posts. I told him to never apologize.

Wouldn't be surprised if the same crazies scared him off.

Yeah that makes sense. Unfortunately japs on Twitter tend to be really soft in this regard (except Kamiya).

I think it's a big culture difference. My wife is Taiwanese and she once read my inbox on Reddit and got depressed haha. "how can people be so mean" etc and just wanted to go to sleep. I think they still take it very personally to their core, while we're just...empty inside hahahaha

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>empty on the inside
That plus we simply are used to it, be it via GFaqs, /v/, YT comments or Reddit. It's hard to care about a dude calling you a retard after the billionth time.

>soft-served
Yes but they are also vicious when given the opportunity. Japs rarely attack anyone and instantly apologize the moment they get attacked themselves. They should learn to say "fuck off" to these pricks and go on with their day.

Remaining on topic, enjoy some Vergil 3 RG goodness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwXupIA_5j4&ab_channel=VincentTurnt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGu5rgQafyo&ab_channel=VincentTurnt

Replayed the game,does it get better in higher difficulty’s? I find some of the encounters to be good but some other kind of not great. Own that comes to mind is the shield dudes in the spike room. Really just felt like I had to limit myself. And in general I kind of felt like a lot of the stuff in environment was just stuff enemys could use but not me. Spike room also comes to mind.

>does it get better in higher difficulty’s
Frankly the game is too mindless on anything below VH, and even then you can just kill everything one on one without issue. On DMD you need to manage enemy healthbars a lot, use AoE attacks and in general be more efficient with your DPS and crowd control, which is what the game excels at.

>Really just felt like I had to limit myself
Some enemies are pretty limiting but those are fortunately not that prevalent. Soul Eaters only one one way of dealing with them, same as Dullahans and Bloodgoyles (though the latters still offer some variety in how you can deal with them). The you have Wraths which are barely enemies and Greeds which are basically DPS checks on DMD, but the rest can be approached how you feel like.

>environment
The use of it in this game is practically non existant (can only think of wallsplats *which don't even do damage like in God Hand* and making enemies fall from the elevator), which is a shame but the combat is still meaty enough without it.

>Enemy wall splat
From what I have seen from zesty streams and such it seems like it’s good for crowd control and I guess stun locking enemys. From what I have played on my first playthrough I mainly stuck to spiral spam and such but DmD sounds really fucking cool. I always thought DmD was too punishing with enemy’s becoming invulnerable to 90 percent of your attacks but I do like the idea in here. Not sure about the punishment but then again I haven’t got there yet and you guys are pretty much gods at this game so you are probably better at critiquing that mechanic than I am. Although I do think it would be cool if at times you do want to DT enemy’s since maybe depending on the type it gives you some sort of advantage during combat.

>wall splat
It's good for guard cancelled shotgun shots to keep an enemy stuck in one place, otherwise it's just a cool effect.

>spiral spam
Very safe but not very damaging (nor too engaging, but it depends if you were using GS or not).

>DmD was too punishing
If you are good you can avoid a lot of problematic DTs. You need to use crowd control and AoE attacks a lot more on DMD. Also DTE makes things a lot more manageable, since you can finish off everyone at once with it.

>gives you some sort of advantage during combat
Aside from letting you use knockbacks more without impunity you never want an enemy to DT. It would have been cool if a mechanic like this was in GoW, so that you could make an enemy DT and then use it's collision or friendly fire for triple damage, but there is no such thing here.

>would be cool in god of war
If only Cory copied them in gow 2 and not 2018. What a waste of a cool mechanic that could have added so much cool shit.

DMC3 is pretty fun on DMD and VH where you have to do more enemy management and play on your feet. A lot of players just play the cool missions (like 1 and 2) over and over again, but there's a lot of fun to be had in experimentation in other stages. Every boss is pretty well designed to, allowing for a lot of differing options and such. Every chapter is wildly different depending on your loadout, so I often recommend not sticking with favourites too much. Play a stage one time with gunslinger+artemis+katalina+nevan+angi or something wack and see how it goes.