General Sekiro

So, with the release being this week and a lot of people getting this title, thought I'd make another topic just like with DMCV.

Really curious about this title, wonder if it can secretly scratch that Ninja Gaiden itch I've had for a decade now. You guys?

I have the same hope. Haven’t been this excited for a game in a very long time.

Really curious about the contents too. Aside from the reveal trailer I haven't watched a lot, so I'm pretty free of spoilers.

It won't scratch the NG itch, because nothing can be as dope as NG.

But I'm cautiously optimistic about it and I'm looking forward to what will probably end up being one of the best action games in years. I haven't watched too much promotional material either! It'll be nice to dive headfirst into what basically amounts to an unknown quantity, unlike with DMC5.

Yeah with DMCV I was spoiled as hell. Knew basically everything about the game before it came out. Looking forward to it guys!

After watching about 10-15 minutes of gameplay, I decided that I was gonna get it and I have a similar hope. Nioh was one of the few more modern games that had me playing for months straight; I wouldn't complain if Sekiro does the same.

The main reason I'm interested in this over DMC5 is that I tend to prefer the "brutal efficiency" style of combat like NG over the more showboaty type that DMC falls into (partly because I'm usually lacking in imagination when it comes to using it but shhhh).

To talk specifics, I'm hoping that the grappling hook gives us some interesting options for combat as well as traversal. Does the hook remind anyone else of Tenchu, by any chance? A series I used to play the shit out of and now hardly remember.

I have something similar, I don't mind doing combos if I can but I do tend to play DMCV more efficiency based. My goal is to create a setup where I can real-impact or meteor a foe safely, though the motor-cycle is just too much fun not to toy around with.

But I am, like you, way too tempted to play .. smart? Efficient?

Hook does remind me of Tenchu and also a bit of James Bond: Agent Under Fire of all things haha.

I am playing the PC version now and will post general non spoilery gameplay impressions later today.
Nothing mechanics heavy unless asked, more a comparison to their past games and difficulty.

Cryoshock wrote:
I tend to prefer the "brutal efficiency" style of combat like NG over the more showboaty type that DMC falls into

Royta/Raeng wrote:I have something similar, I don't mind doing combos if I can but I do tend to play DMCV more efficiency based. My goal is to create a setup where I can real-impact or meteor a foe safely, though the motor-cycle is just too much fun not to toy around with.

But I am, like you, way too tempted to play .. smart? Efficient?

Me three. As much as I love watching DMC combo videos, I'm not really capable of landing these insane juggles and I tend to rely on simple, mobile strats instead. 2-weapon slots, Dance Macabre & Real Impact setups all day. Even on-the-fly style switching is proving to be a bit much for me to handle at times.

NG is where I feel the most at home in, with a limited moveset but great mobility options and aggressive enemies that force you to stay on your toes and exploit any window of opportunity that presents itself by any mean necessary. It's also why I love Bloodborne so much and am looking forward to Sekiro tomorrow!

Quick check in: parrying feels absolutly incredible.
Though I am at 60fps, I heard the consoles are rough, especially ps4 pro.
I couldn't imagine trying to parry with a fluctuating framerate. The timings are tighter than bloodborne, but not as strict as maybe royal guard. No where near issens.

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I am going to get the PS4 regular version, I have a super PC but...I don't know. I just want to sit on my couch. Hope the 30fps isn't too much of an issue.

I'm not really capable of landing these insane juggles and I tend to rely on simple, mobile strats instead.
I can do all the juggles, but what I found is I didn't really enjoy a lot of them. The players in the video like to use all the moves and styles in their combos for the most part, where for me, I usually dislike a few weapons and styles, and using them goes completely against my personal style.

I don't know for sure, but I might be one of the few people that considered Lucifer one of the best weapons ever, and am saddened by it's absence from DMC5. I have see a few combo videos using it exclusively, but they're rare.

I've often been told over the years that the way I like to play is weak, not using all the tools or whatever. I mainly used Lucifer, Shotgun, with Gunslinger and Trickster when I needed mobility. For a game that promotes all this freedom to create your style, this really bothered some people. So much for 'PLAYER EXPRESSHUN!!!'

>Sekiro
Whoever has it, do not fail to explain the mechanics in depth. I need to know exactly how it plays before I buy it.

I think I will wait until there a special edition. I haven't really seen much of this game tbh.

I just wanna know how the combat works. What's the focus? What kind of skills can you get? How much, if any, RPG stuff does it have not that I'm against that if the gameplay is good.

How is the exploration?

Basic mechanics rundown:
The game is a more action take on niohs stamina system done much better. If you perfect block everything and keep up the assault, you are invincible. Easier said than done though.
Big focus on stealth to thin the numbers. I would say it is a mix between tenchu z and far cry. All of the enemies have markers above their head and you can't turn them off. If they see things or hear things it fills up and eventually turns red and they spot you. It is really useful for knowing where shit is in new areas.
It feels like what we all wanted bloodborne to play like, and it makes nioh seem like an ancient mess.
It seems better in every way. Exploration is like DS 1. Two BIG areas to explore off the bat, and when one gets too hard you can explore the other place. I am sure it will open up more later.
Skill system is simple, but each skill is very useful so there is a lot of weight to what you pick.
It seems like you could grind and get everything like souls, but it would take forever.
Also only have the first skill book, there is one I found I could buy with what seems like the crystal lizard equivalent currency, but couldn't afford it.
If you die you lose half money and xp in your bar. But if the bar fills up fully you get a skill point and it stays with you. You just lose half of whatever is in your bar at the time.
There are sweeps, thrusts, and grabs from the enemies. Reminds me of choosing the right dodge in God Hand. They all have the same warning icon it seems. So you have to learn the timings and movesets of each enemy to know how to counter. They each have a hard counter that does huge posture damage and opens them to a deathblow attack. Deathblows one hit kill mooks, but not mini bosses.
They need multiple deathblows.
It is like actual sword fighting where you are just clashing swords until someone catches a hot one to the chest and ends the fight in one blow. You can't hack and slash like souls.
A lot of "Soulsfans" are finding this too difficult because there is no cheese. You have to learn how to parry. I am sure everyone on this forum will find it fairly simple to parry basic attacks. This game assumes you have played hardcore action games like Ninja Gaiden, and I think a lot of their fanbase has not. The difficulty for me comes from not being sure if it is a sweep or thrust and choosing the wrong counter and losing three fourths of my health.
I am picking up on the fact that an enemy with a sword isn't going to sweep, but thrust. Makes sense. Enemies with heavier weapons will probably sweep.
But you often fight 6-8 guys at once, especially if you suck at stealth so it is just a lot to process.
This is the most fun I have had with a From game since Demons's Souls and Dark souls 1.
What I have played it seems like game of the generation for me so far. It really is that good.

To answer your question about rpg mechanics. It seems to have most of the buff items from previous games. But other than that it so far is no more an rpg than dmc or god of war. As far as stat points.

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The game is a more action take on niohs stamina system done much better.
So there is stamina?

If you perfect block everything and keep up the assault, you are invincible.
How does this work? What do you mean by 'invincible' here? Are you rewarded for being aggressive?

If they see things or hear things it fills up and eventually turns red and they spot you.
Are there many options for messing with them?

Exploration is like DS 1
Cool. I like this type.

Skill system is simple, but each skill is very useful so there is a lot of weight to what you pick.
Can you equip everything or are there limits?

It is like actual sword fighting where you are just clashing swords until someone catches a hot one to the chest and ends the fight in one blow.
But what decides when the AI takes a hit?

You are invincible because a perfect parry depletes their posture and dosen't effect yours. No stamina just the posture gauge. Lets say you go to an enemy hit him twice, he counter attacks, you perfect parry and fill his posture guage and 1 hit kill him with a deathblow.
If the enemy or your posture gauge, like nioh stamina is full. You get wrecked.
As far as skills weapons etc. I need to play more. Just found an axe. There are secondary weapon equips. You can swap between 3 at once.

>stealth You have distraction items and you can pull them like DS.

Blocking from enemies seems random

Enemies are freaking relentless, and I’m loving the low time to kill. I’m having trouble getting used to jumping over sweep attacks and stuff like that. It’s also neat that when your health is low, your posture recovers more slowly.

One thing I’m not understanding, is there any reason to not resurrect? You lose half of your money either way, right?

There is a death penalty that effects npcs and potentially a bad ending. It is Dragonrot. Dying gives less than resurrecting I believe. Plus it's for scrubs I haven't looked into it much more than that, I will play this game many times so I don't care about the first outcome.

I have been trying to figure out what the parrying feels like. I am not the biggest Revengeance fan, but that is the closest thing to how the parrying feels for me. Specifically having to parry multiple quick attacks in a row, and finishing with a kill move.
It also reminds me of the Golden Fleece from God of War, mostly because the timing isn't too strict and it is the same button as those games.

It does sort of have that MGR feeling when clashing. Feels very satisfying.

I've only just started and only had a few fights. I guess I'm still in the tutorial.

Edit: Sick of dying. Demon roosters jump kicked me off a cliff out of the bushes. So have I lost all my stuff now?

I highly recommend everyone put dodge on one of the four shoulder buttons, i used R2 and put tools on L2. Being able to sprint and move the camera easily is great. Because there is no stamina sprinting seems vital.
I keep forgetting you can thrust by holding R1. The game never tells you.
I wonder if it does more posture damage or has specific properties.
Also there are at least 4 total tools to be found or purchased before the boss of the first two areas, some are very well hidden.

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Who is the first boss? I can't tell. It is the guy that cuts off your arm?

They both have a fog door behind them, you will know. Even if they are just mini bosses, if you can't avoid them I would consider them a boss. Really anything that requires 2 deathblows is a boss.
The first guy is similar to Demons's Souls where if you can beat him you get rewarded. I tried him after restarting and almost got him half way. He is tough as nails.

Dying you lose half money(Sen), and half of your current XP bar.

Now that I have the grappling hook I should backtrack a little. I'm sure there were some unexplored areas at the very beginning that I couldn't reach.

You can't go back to the pre sword area right away unfortunately. I saw an item right where you start the game that I want so bad. Also seems to have unreachable locations, I am expecting a longer grapple or some kind of glide move.

Ok, I'll wait until later then.

I have to say I really love the Souls level design, especially in Sekiro with all the verticality.

I also enjoy that levels look really vast even if they are linear, like souls. It makes exploring more rewarding, staring at ledges in the distance trying to find if it is even possible. I just miss finding cool weapons and armor. I don't want any more ceramics or ash items, at least you can sell them.

You can tell they made the dodge trash to force you to parry. I'm so glad they did. I think the Iframes are super tight, and if an attack is long enough or a grab, you cannot dodge through it period.
I have found great success doing two dodges instead of 1 for bosses like the ogre.

So you can't parry sweeps right? I keep getting hit by these. Not used to this yet.

Unless there is a skill later, no. You just have to learn the enemies moves, look for a tell and double jump.

Really wanted to play this today but I still haven't finished DMC5.

I will never beat DMC5 unless they put some interesting dlc mode.
So boring.

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People seem to be jumping the gun on calling the game shallow or simplistic. Game has been out two days, we have a lot to learn. I have 20 hours and there are some things I really do not like, mainly the stealth elements(or lack of), and the minibosses have a strong sense of saminess, but the combat is nice and to the point. Slowly starting to incorporate some of the side weapons more effectively, and get my spacing down better. Part of me wants to go crazy during combat due to the speed of everything but I need to practice being patient.

I’d like to also take a moment to point out how absolutely excellent the level design is. So many paths to just wander off on and think, “where am I even going?”, only to stumble upon a new vendor, some cool location, a boss, or a new prosthetic arm piece. At Senpou, there were several times I had to stop and think to myself where I was in relation to the entire area, and if going into some spots was worth it because I wanted to get to the next idol. Kind of funny coming from DMC5.

I read the same complaint about mini bosses but I've only fought one (haven't even reached the first boss yet) so I can't comment. Could you go into further detail on this?

So, just had a whole weekend bender on Sekiro, just got up to and almost finished Sunken Valley (doubt names are a spoiler) and got to do the puzzle boss which I finished.

There are some things, as Infinity also noted, that I really really (I added a second "really") don't like, but there's a lot of great stuff. I really enjoy the levels, lots of branching paths, lots of hidden places, hidden foes, hidden arms etc. The game also looks drop-dead-gorgeous.

I just found out I also missed 2 arms and a few vendors, so going to have fun tracking those down!

In terms of dislikes, just random thoughs intermixed with likes:

- not too big on the story so far, seems to be a mixture of Miyazaki's "lost in translation" style of writing and just AAA gamestory with cutscenes and exposition. Everything being written as a semi poem gets old fast, especially for sidequest descriptions.

- I really like the DragonRot concept. Punishing players for throwing their body at a hard fight without thought of consequence is a great way to push players to be smart. It is quite easily healed, but honestly still very smart. You can always escape a fight too, be it using an item (without punishment might I add) or the grapple.

- the general gist of the combat is really cool, with focus being on breaking a foe's guard and punishing them hard in a single OHKO stroke.

- but as a result the combat, so far, feels very mashy. I see a foe, no matter how big or dangerous, and I just run up to him and mash R1. If he parries, I stop mashing and parry his retaliation blow. If he sweeps I jump, if he thrusts I Mikiri Counter him. Once you realize that sweeps and thrusts are generally announced by the attack they did before it, it basically becomes Simon Says Combat, at least for me. And that's against hard foes, like mini-bosses and regular bosses. Regular enemies I just mash R1 and they die. I even put the game on Hard Mode (something you can find later-on) and it still isn't really giving me a hard time.

- the areas, especially at the start, are fantastic. Allowing avoidance, stealthkills or just straight up going ham. Lots of entries.

- love how getting detected means you cannot stealthkill just THAT foe, doesn't immediately negate stealthkills on other foes.

- not too big a fan of the arms so far, most seem ways to just incorporate basic tools or are just downright broken OHKO machines that suddenly don't work against some foes since the game doesn't want you to win that way (the Fan comes to mind).

- losing half your gold and exp is a tad 'meh' in my eyes upon death. Just means it's harder to either get the things you want, or you just play really safe. All it really does is waste time since you can easily farm in this game.

- Some skills are really really good, like healing when you deal a deathblow or the ichi-something strike that deals monsterous posture-damage.

- a bit saddened by the lack of your moveset though, and other weapons. Later-on something happens that made me think you'd get dual-katana wielding or at least a new sword, but the game really sticks to just the basic setup the whole game long it seems.
I think if you could equip three skills with three inputs it would be so much better. Right now you really lack a sweep or something to make things interesting. Or a hilt-bash that foes like to use etc.

All in all, having a lot of fun but also a tad disappointed. Will continue to have fun with it though, already thinking on what type of runs I want to do which is a good sign :)

Simon Says Combat
Is it that bad? Is it the case with every enemy? How about multiple enemies?

Multiple enemies, for me at least, is just rush down the small foes first with R1 mash to quickly kill them off. It is really divide and conquer, if you fight two at the same time you won't last long since your defense will crumble.

Note that this is after getting the mechanics down, before you see those patterns.

Hmmm.

I still can't identify the attack types that well yet but I've barely played 2 hours so far.

Once you reach that level, is it even worth playing? Wondering if I should just drop it now. Doesn't sound like much fun.

Maybe if enemies mixed up their attacks more.

Is there any correlation between Sekiro and God Hand in terms of how their dodging systems work?

It is still fun to play, just that every boss / enemy is more finding out their pattern and then just perfecting them. Attack mix-ups don't really matter since you just rush them down, and their parry-attacks are only few in numbers. The boss Genichiro only has two parry-attacks for instance. So if you rush him down he'll either do one of those or his retreating attack. If you let enemies go 'free' they'll have a ton of moves and mix-ups, but the second you rush them down the game sort of falls apart it seems. Really weird to describe.

I noticed that with the tougher grunts that if you rush them, they 'combo break' in a sense to get you off then do an attack you can parry. So really thats all there is to it huh? By rushing them you can control their parry.

Yeah I noticed they do more if you do what I was doing at the start, being a habitual dodger. They'd be throwing out various attacks until I started beating on their guard.

If you guys haven't seen the nightjar slash lady butterfly exploit, it really is something. This game could use some patches to remove the iron flesh equivalents out of it.

I heard about it but haven't done it yet, lots of infinites too using the FireCracker.

Birdman
Yeah that's...all there is basically. Some have a different style animation or follow up, but honestly it is all pretty scripted. For instance there's one who will always parry after three hits, follow his parry with a thrust and then follow your Mikiri counter with another attack which, when you parry that leaves him open. Works 100%.

>Works 100%.

Is that the Seven Spear guy you are talking about?

Not sure, it's the one from the tutorial area when you return to it.

I just beat that guy and that is basically what I did. It seems there is only one way to really beat most bosses, can't get too creative yet.

Agreed. Also enemies have tracking like I've never seen before. Saw a guy jumping in the air straight up turn 180 degrees while still airborne. They really want you to avoid a move a certain way and if you deviate from that method it sort of falters.

This game is getting ridiculous praise all over and claims of how hard it is. Has no one realized its system yet?

Honestly I feel like I should just sell it.

I'd finish it honestly, I may give it too much 'tough love' but I am really enjoying it and the level design is fantastic. Just got a new ability that set the world up side down for me in terms of exploration so that's really cool!

The fun in terms of combat right now is finding the perfect setups and smart usage of the Arms. Though in honestly most fights, especially bosses, will just boil down to posture-rushing.

Some other fights will sadly be extreme tests of patience. I can already imagine doing a certain giant boss just before you pick up a flower (to avoid spoilers) being an absolute drag to do considering you can't really break its posture, so you have to kill him through damage which makes it a tad boring on No Upgrade Runs unless some tech is found.

About the praise, it's a Souls game that punishes the mindset of the original games harshly and plays like a modern day iteration of a PS2 action game, albeit with a lot of modern tropes (sadly). Miyazaki could, at this point, make Superman 64 and release it as is with his name on it and it would be named a masterpiece. This is mostly also because of the way voting systems work, especially on Reddit. If you have anything but absolute praise, prepare to be burried and said you're bad at the game. Which is just sad, it's always good to be critical.

But tl;dr, I really enjoy the game and will be playing it for some time to come. But it isn't the master piece I had hoped.