General Sekiro

I read on reddit that a deflect will never break your posture, is this true? If so, then holy shit this game is a joke. I have been running away when my posture gets high even though i deflect everything, which usually leads to me getting hit.

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Yeah it’s true. It’s why there’s a lot of comments saying you can mash L1 in this game, which I wouldn’t say is entirely true but it doesn’t work somewhat often for me when I try it.

Fuck. Then the bosses are a joke, they are just simon says. Learn the hits and you are invincible. The armored guy on the bridge gave me trouble because I kept trying to get away after two deflects when my stamina was almost full, usually that would get me hit. But his attacks are piss easy to deflect, so I literally could just stand there. Jeez.
I haven't touched this in a week but now that I know this I am gonna just breeze through it. Such a disappointing combat system, love the world and exploration though. Wish the loot was worth a damn, i guess ill just use the sugars all the time to get through this quick

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Yeah that's basically the combat. You attack twice, deflect their deflect and go ham. Most bosses are best done just standing still. It's supposed to feel like this epic duel, but most of the time mechanically it doesn't feel that way at all.

Doing a no-upgrade run right now and some bosses just have insane amounts of Posture. Corrupt Monk will sometimes just backdash and recover it all in seconds.

I made a big mistake and put NGII back into my X360 and never looked back...

I really want to get into NG but I am not a fan of no checkpoints for a game that can get that hard. Hoping for Xbox og and 360 emulation so I can just save state to learn it. I did some play 2 when it came out and loved it, but I think I was on easy. Just don't have time to replay long sections these days.

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Depends on the game. Ninja Gaiden 1 is just savepoints. Ninja Gaiden 2 is savepoints and gives a checkpoint before each boss. Ninja Gaiden 3 is checkpoints. Note that you can always just quickly run back and save, this isn't Dark Souls so things don't respawn (usually).

hedfone, this is why I sold the game.

The way people talk about this game like it's the second coming of christ for combat in an action game, reminds me of how people reacted to God of Bore 2018.

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It is the downside with most people only playing those games. If you just play Dark Souls, God of War, Last of Us and Uncharted - then yes this game is probably the re-invention of the genre as you were thinking it would be. But when compared to even Onimusha 1 this title is a tad lacking.

I've even seen people praise its stealth mechanics which as a stealth-nut I find to be pretty wild a notion to make with enemies seeing you through freak'n houses.

In the spirit of positivity, there is a lot of good too. The combat, when you go all out, is pretty fun and looks nice. There's a bit of openings to experiment with combat arts and arms, the platforming is pretty freeflow and Hardships are a nice difficulty modifier.

>stealth
This is probably the most confusing part of the game’s praise, is seeing the stealth defended. The game doesn’t even have the most basic options or details we saw in MGS1 or SC1. I realize it’s not a stealth game per se, but stuff like enemies only halfway reacting to dead allies, seeing you through objects, no actual stealth tools aside from a couple passive things, etc. really makes me question what kind of games these fans are used to.

I think this is just going to be another game you can’t criticize. Any negative discussion of the combat just means you didn’t understand it, apparently.

The stealth is fun, but it is so easy. There is no real freedom either, you just follow the route they set up and you get to kill everyone. Has anyone here played Tenchu Z?

Guessing I didn't lose much by skipping this game then? Decided to pick DMC5 instead because at it's worst it's just mindless wombo combo action fun.

Will probably give Sekiro a chance once we get the game of the year edition so I can actually buy a full game 1 year after it's release.

>Tenchu Z
Oh yeah, played a ton of it in high school. Really miss the series. Was hoping Sekiro would fill that void but...nah.

>lose much
I do enjoy the game for all of its flaws, but it has very little of its own identity or any idea that really sticks with me. I’ve already gone back to playing HD collections on my PS3, if that tells you anything. Souls might not have the best reception around here but that series completely surpasses this game in almost every way.

>If that tells me anything
It's a sad reminder to me that we're way past the golden age of action games(ps2 era) and we'll never see the light of that glorious age ever again since we're stuck in the dark(souls) ages.

>Souls not having the best reception here.
Would most certainly not be around here had the overall opinion on it be that "it's ze hardest and bestest action vydier ever", I do enjoy that people here give what it deserves(solid jrpg with well thought rpg mechanics) without going full hysteria unlike most public boards.

>that series completely surpasses this game in almost every way.
I'll probably stick to replaying something else or giving DMC5 more time then I guess. Still have quite a few snes games I feel like replaying.

>PS2 Golden age
Word. I’m pretty sure like 70% of my favorite games are on PS2.

>Souls
Yeah the series has become something of a meme. I know people who barely even know what a video game is yet they know Dark souls as “that hard game”. Pretty much all of my favorite things about Souls aren’t even related to the combat or difficulty but I guess that’s what gets streamers views and it made for good marketing.

>DMC5
Game turned out better than I was anticipating. That style of combat still isn’t really my bag but I think I’ll go back to it since I’m basically done with Sekiro for now. Was expecting to get more than two playthroughs in but I just don’t have any interest.

>snes games
Nice. Which ones?

>I’m pretty sure like 70% of my favorite games are on PS2.
A lot of mine are too though I'm not sure if it has such a huge ratio in my case considering I love a lot of stuff from the snes/megadrive, Saturn/psx and even some dreamcast games. What I can say for certain is that I have very few favorites for the ps3 era compared to the previous ones and the ps4 gen made me consider quit gaming more than a few times.

>I know people who barely even know what a video game is yet they know Dark souls as “that hard game”
I remember listening to random people talking about Dark Souls speedruns while waiting on a line inside Burger King, it sort of weirded out because I've playing games for god know how many years(and also going to eat out) and that was the first time I've heard random people talking about speedruns on a public space

Coulda been a coincidence but it speaks loads about how deep Souls rooted itself on common sense as "that one hard game" yeah.

>Pretty much all of my favorite things about Souls aren’t even related to the combat or difficulty
Yeah I personaly like how the rpg aspects are implemented in a way it isn't just "numbers the game" like NuGoW and the way the game gives you lots of tools to crush the game at limited settings. Which when you think about it's kind of ironic considering they're all stuff that makes the game easy.

>I guess that’s what gets streamers views and it made for good marketing.
Lots of opportunities for them to make weird noises and faces to appease the Zoomer crowd.

>Game turned out better than I was anticipating.
Kind of surprised that the game offers so many viable tools to kill stuff while ditching all the 4 cuhhraizy tech, Dante had more stuff than I expected with DSD and SinDT both being great additions(though I'm still unsure about how I feel about the "charge your anime meter" with SinDT, Quadruple S is great though).

>Which ones.
Replaying Soul Blazer right now, recently found out that Sword Maniac has secret difficulties in the japanese version so I'll probably attempt it later on(game's called x kaliber 2097 on the american release iirc).

If I'm still up for it I wanna replay Goemon 3 and 4(Mystical Ninja), and will probably play the two 64 games as well.

Edit: Since my snes is hooked up I'll probably sneak a Demon's Crest and Super Metroid playthroughs somewhere since those two are of my favorite games ever.

Infinity: Yeah the praise for the stealth is...weird. I've had enemies look straight at me and not see me, I've had enemies seen me through walls, I've had enemies just casually walk past their talking buddy who was being cut to shreds by me. You don't even re-crouch after a stealthkill. Some, like the ledge-kill, are fully invisible even if the guy is standing right next to him. So weird.

Birdman: they're not even good at it. A lot of players just either grind, use magic or summon spam the game and consider that an MLG feat. It is the marketing. All the marketing. You buy Dark Souls, you're the best.

5Does: you missed being disappointed. That aside, DMCV was a much better purchase by a metric ton. Also note that you either buy the PC version or just run, the console version is laggy as hell (10-25 FPS depending on locations and fights). Also: screw NGII am I right? :D Unfair!

> Souls might not have the best reception around here
Note, the community doesn't, at least in my eyes. The games are fantastic Action RPGs. The combat isn't that deep in terms of mechanics, but RPG wise it's a really open system that allows for all shorts of shjenanigans (not going to spellcheck that word today).

> golden era
It will come when the mainstream audience moves to a new form of entertainment (hopefully VR or something like that) and leaves the games for us again - a niche product.

> DMCV
The game has a lot of functionality to it. Some things like the menu-swapping constantly for Nero is a chore. But things like Dante's new 'damage buff taunt' and indeed SinDT are very welcome additions. I was toying around how I'd write the article one day about it and I feel it is a game for nearly (note, nearly) every fan of the genre. It has something for combo-fans, something for DMC fans (it's basically a fanfic), something for Chaos Legion fans (albeit basic), something for efficientplay fans etc. Just misses an actual difficult setting with agressive foes. Imagine IS-ninjas in this title...

PS2
Speaks volumes when I go into a game store, and of all current gen titles, I walk out with Okami, RE4, FF12, Dragon's Dogma, RE1&0, and Valkyria Chronicles remasters.

consider that an MLG feat
And the problem is it has been normalized as such.

>few favorites on the PS3
PlatinumGames really saved last gen for me. Aside from their work, I mostly played HD collections or just played my PS2. The Wii and 360 were decent too but again, nothing compared to the previous gen imo.

>Souls
Yeah I’m always a fan of RPG elements that are more for changing playstyles and giving you some new tricks rather than just upping numbers. It’s a shame how many games seem to take the “more numbers=better game” approach now.

>Snes games
Soul Blazer is great, I actually wanted to replay it recently but I don’t have a TV to hook up my Snes to. Never actually played Demon’s Crest, it’s been on my backlog forever.

>Sekiro stealth
And considering you’ll be using deathblows for 90%+ of stealth kills, it gets old really fast. This game also might have the worst case of “if I just run away or go on a roof, no one will care that I’m here anymore” that I’ve ever seen. Especially the first few areas where there’s no enemies who can go on to rooftops. There may be some cool experimentation with the combat, but there is damn near nothing for the stealth.

>souls mechanics
Yeah the combat itself isn’t too deep, but it’s supplemented with a lot of great other stuff that helps carry the combat. While I obviously want games to have deep combat, I think Souls is an uncommon case of it not being much of an issue for me.

>move on to new form of entertainment
We can only hope. I was looking up new releases and there just isn’t much on the horizon I’m excited for. I have enough games to last me the rest of my life as it is, but it’s still disheartening.

>DMC5
Completely agree with everything. I actually was thinking this game might be a rare case of trying to appeal to all kinds of action game fans and somewhat succeeding. I just wish there was some kind of difficulty after DMD but before HaH. I have never, ever been a fan of games where enemies have high HP and DMD is especially bad with this, and HaH feels more like a novelty mode than anything. I would love a difficulty where there’s more enemies who are also much more aggressive, with less health than DMD.

Raeng:

>Pc version.
I bought it for the pseudo lesser pc(ps4) my computer is sort of outdated and I don't feel like upgrading anytime soon whenever I look at newer titles, will probably upgrade eventually during mid ps5 era since at that point I won't buy any consoles that aren't nintendo ones.

>the console version is laggy as hell (10-25 FPS depending on locations and fights)
Haven't ran into many of them personally, though I could feel a significant drop during the stupid co-op segments even if I was playing on single player(because someone thought a souls-like pseudo co-op would be a better idea to have at launch over BP).

>NG2 being unfair.
Because apparently offscreen projectiles are objectively bad once they cross over a imaginary threshold that can't be contested.
I eventually have to boot up my 360 to finish my Mentor run and the subsequent MN run, would really love if Vanilla was ported to pc as lately I don't feel like booting up any consoles aside from my snes.

>mainstream audience moves to a new form of entertainment.
I just hope that I haven't gone senile by the time it happens, would love to see that happen.

>a game for nearly (note, nearly) every fan of the genre
Yeah I agree, and I also feel like despite not being even remotely my favorite HnS it's worth noting that DMC actually holds so much importance to the genre as a whole by being a big budget HnS game that sold well during the dark(souls) age of gaming, it blows away the NuGoW nonsense that HnS games are outdated and no one has a interest on them anymore, it's even more important when you consider that the only other real big HnS title(Nier) was filled to the brim with storydriven nonsense and i m m e r s i o n, in the end DMC5 despite it's shortcomings is a revival of "gameplay matters" on a game that isn't a From title.

>Just misses an actual difficult setting with agressive foes.
I agree, and I feel like out of all the characters the one that suffers the most from this lack of aggressive foes is without any doubt V who ends up being a steamroller on lower difficulties and a drag on higher ones due to spongy mobs.

Inf:

>PlatinumGames really saved last gen for me
Yeah there weren't that many games that I really loved on that gen aside from P* ones.

>It’s a shame how many games seem to take the “more numbers=better game” approach now.
Way easier to implement and most players won't really care about the depth of how stats work on rpgs, it's even worse if the game gets labeled as a storydriven game.

>SB
Really underrated game yeah, I'm stil missing Terranigma to complete the Gaia trilogy.

>DC
Really great game, probably one of my favorite platforms ever along with Super Metroid. If you haven't played it yet I highly recommend it, it blows so many recent platformers out of the water by a huge margin.

>HaH feels more like a novelty mode than anything.
I've never been a fan of games acknowledging no hit modes as a part of 100%-ing the game, it's a lazy attempt at stretching difficulty that ultimately isn't going to be the hardest the game has to offer(because they have to balance it around SoS so normal people have a chance at the platinum) so it just feels... moot.

Surprised at the fierce backlash, to be honest.

I love the 6th Gen just as much as the next guy, but I find plenty to like in the games FROM puts out, even if they're not full-fledged character action classics. I agree that a lot of the AAA sphere has become stagnant and plagued by numerous questionable design decisions, but I don't know that I would put either Bloodborne or Dark Souls in that category. Too early to have a definitive opinion on Sekiro as I'm still at the beginning. I am enjoying myself a lot, though.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I love the Souls games and Bloodborne. I really like this game too, even though I have issues with it that I maybe didn’t with Souls. I completely agree that these games shouldn’t be lumped in with modern AAA stuff, even though these games have become popular they are clearly made with something completely different in mind.

Infinity

> last generation
Looking back, yes, Platinum saved it for me. Though I will admit there were other titles that made it worthwhile for me. For one we saw HD re-releases. But also titles like Infamous, God of War 3, Killer is Dead, Shadows of the Damned, Force Unleashed, Final Fantasy XIII-LR and some others. There were still a lot of AAA titles that had killer gameplay mechanics behind them. I still wish Infamous hadn't become what it did, first game was fantastic.

Wii had a few hits too, but nothing spectacular that makes me want to hook it up again.

> More numbers is better
It works in some games, but I think titles giving options to ignore it is better. Final Fantasy always does this right, and Golden Sun and Pokemon also always had great mechanics that allowed for creative play. Nioh did this the worst I feel, where high numbers could effectively replace player skill.

> Souls
Nioh got really close, it had fantastic combat mechanics and a lot of stuff to supplement it. They just went overboard with the diablo-styled loot.

> DMD HP
Ditto. While I like that it forces you to be knowledgable with your attacks and breakers, some foes having more HP than a boss is just dumb. Cerberus on DMD has insane amounts of HP. It's telling when boss videos that last 6 minutes see the boss reach 30% HP in less than a minute only for the last 5 to be DT mode.

5Does

> lag
Confusing, but I was talking about Sekiro, not DMC5. DMC5 is very consistent. Sekiro is a lag-fest.

> NG2
Got it on the X1X now, game is lag-less. Out of this world.

> DMCV shuts them up
Totally with you on this one and also why I bought it day one despite being worried about it. It is the last high budget traditional HnS that isn't polluted (too much).
THough I always fear it will just push other games to again be nothing but combo-simulators, it is still better than seeing Ryu crouch down next to Momoji to show her how to throw a kunai in the remake.

KSub

Don't take it the wrong way. We're mostly a bit more critical here since we can be without too much hate from outsiders (say the things we say here on Reddit and it's down-vote heaven). Personally I liked what I played and really enjoyed some of the fights. The level design was out of this world. The art-style was fantastic. The gameplay just wasn't what I had hoped it would be, especially in terms of experimentation or how the stealth works. As a result I had fun, but it is also a game I won't play for the next few years I feel. I like the beginning stages the best personally.

I am definitely completely done with this. Hopefully some dlc adds new weapons or something like nioh. I watched a video of the bosses, and other than a couple of bloodborne rejects, it is really just stand there and deflect for most everything. The "difficulty" is just learning the deflect timing. I would rather play rock band or something, not my kind of action game.
I guess I really only liked souls for the rpg elements and the exploration that was tied to it, and fashion souls.. let's be honest haha. Nioh feels too bloated for me though, souls had it right.
Like others have said, I wish they just ditched all of the souls stuff, bonfires, lose xp on death etc.. Imagine if it was linear and tight like onimusha. Right now, it feels like an rpg that forgot to put in the rpg part.

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The "no fun" Police strikes again. Latest patch of Sekiro removes most of the creativity the game had. Stealth kills on bosses that were there by mistake have been removed. High Monk has been nerfed since it dealt too much posture if used against sweeps (the whole point of the move), making it trash.

They did retweak some arms and weapon arts - making some actually worth while. So it isn't all bad. But still surprised to see them remove so many fun little quirks as well.

I was afraid of this happening. The worst thing about steam is auto update, can't revert. You could always play a pirated version, but what I just said is the dumbest thing in the history of video games. Pirating a piece of art to play it how it was originally created. We live in a shit time all around.

I still don't understand why singleplayer games don't allow Version Swapping. Street Fighter always did this, allowing players - at least offline - to pick older versions of characters. So they could technically pick V1.0 Guile versus V2.3 Guile (to some extent).

I finally got around to playing Sekiro and I'm liking it a fair bit now that I'm approaching the end of my first playthrough. In the past, I've bounced off pretty much every other Soulsbourne title halfway through them, (Bloodborne and Dark Souls at least) but with this one I think I'm finally getting why they're so beloved. Their worlds are so cool, especially if you go into them with no prior knowledge. It's something I wish I could have done for Bloodborne and Dark Souls in hindsight. I still hate pretty much all the souls mechanics in Sekiro though. The more focused combat is more to my liking, but man do I hate the concept of losing accumulated money and experience in conjunction with long loading times after death. I get that it's supposed to create tension, but it feels particularly at odds with the gameplay in Sekiro due to how you're expected to put yourself at risk learning the timings of when to deflect. But eh, perhaps I'll warm up to it more as I play more From Software stuff. Was thinking of giving Bloodborne another go to wrap it up after Sekiro possibly.

Hey Gouf! Welcome back :)

Sekiro has some great ideas, but squanders it - at least in the eyes of most people here - by sticking to close to the Souls-roots. Things like the 'walk back' after a death, losing currency upon death etc. It is just a very tired trope for many. The combat, though a tad one-note, is enjoyable. But the world man, the world. I really love the way they build their worlds. Fantastic level design, but also art design.

I personally like Demon's Souls and Bloodborne the most of their offerings.

Hi Raeng! Nice to see you're around.

Yeah, I think overall the game is pretty good even if there are quite few issues. The combat kind of reminds me of a more single player focused version of For Honor in a way with how parrying works in a pretty similar way and is super advantageous. Funnily enough they both have the same issues except what results from those issues is pretty different. In Sekiro you just go in super aggressive and react appropriately with deflects in a rather flowchart manner once you learn the timings, but in For Honor, due to it being PvP focused, it basically just created a painfully defensive game because everything was capable of being reacted to, parried, and consequently punished.

But yeah, I also kinda wish there were more bosses that weren't just attack, attack, deflect too. I actually like most of the bosses and think they're fine for this type of game, but I think one of the best bosses in the game, the optional demon one near the end of the game, is great because it demands a little more from you while not relying on the deflect mechanic so much.

Definitely gonna give Bloodborne another go though. I think I'm starting to understand the patience I'm gonna need for these games now. I think I've come to accept that I'm just gonna end up losing a bunch of exp/money in boss encounters when I'm playing these games now. lol

The problem with the bosses, for me, was that it was mostly relient on 'gotcha' attacks and patterns. Since the whole game is based on patterns, the only way to make bosses harder was to make new patterns that confused players or switch things up i.e. the dreaded "now comes my ultimate form" trope.

I'm curious to hear your opinion on Bloodborne when you give it another shot!

I really wanted to like this game. It has quite a few cool aspects but the deflecting system needs to go.

Roy I saw your post on Gamefaqs about the lack of options around deflecting.

Have you played Kengo Zero? The series started off as a traditional fighting game but Zero is an action game.

It has quite a few options from clashing swords like pushing and pulling, throwing opponents off balance, running alongside them with swords crossed, etc. You can do stuff like direct enemies into walls or over bridge rails. And what's cool is everything has a counter.

For example, if you get deflected and flipped to the side, you're open for a heavy damage, if not an OHK to the back, but a timed input will see you roll just as you hit the ground and avoid the enemy's deadly follow up.

I played it so many years ago so I don't remember a lot though I recall a way to cancel attacks. I don't know how much you can expect from the AI in terms of mind games but it has a Vs mode

Might be worth your time. It's an X360 exclusive though, unless they put it on X1.

The manual is really good and I even typed out all the explanations, planning to make a topic here. Might so that this weekend and see if it draws interest.

I think you talked about this game before, though I'm not sure. I watched a trailer and it seemed familiar. But yes what you mentioned (and also what I saw) seems more in line with what I've mentioned. The AI looks absolutely idiotic though and super passive in the footage I've found. Is there truth in this? Or just youtubers playing on easy mode?

You like the game?

I cant remember the harder modes. All of the youtube videos suck ass though.

I like the game but I haven't played it much. It could boil down to repeating something over and over against the AI and the real depth only becoming apparent in Vs mode.

If there's one thing I think Sekiro could really use, it's DmC: Devil may Cry or Ninja Gaiden 2004 style parry/intercept move.

Time a sword swing in sync with the enemy's attack, and then do a big chunk of posture damage. I'd say it should have much stricter timing than both of the other games I mentioned, but it would do far more posture damage than just a deflect.

I think that'd be excellent! That or something like high/low being a thing. As is, it just isn't that deep yet or lacking options beyond deflecting.

Regarding your question @Birdman, there's a few good ones.
This player is really good: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdGyaKUgO9hM2C0cH-Xe8LQ
Lots of challenge runs and using prosthetics and items.

This is a pretty good video from him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft_Z5K3PGwM
(warning, final boss)

Really cool speedrun, no glitches, just pure skill and smart item usage.

Good stuff. I’ve been thinking a lot about this game lately, I think I was too hard on it before. It definitely has its shortcomings but I really love the overall feel of the game, from the art style, world design, enemies, etc.

I think the last patch which mostly buffed moves and retweaked some of the insanely broken ones like High Monk, really added to the game. It's been on my list of games to revisit, I think I went in with too big an expectation of what it was going to be. I still stand by that it's 'simon says'-TheGame, but a darn fine one.

I started this game earlier today completely blind. I'm not the biggest FS fan in the world, but I do enjoy the philosophies in some ideas (Bloodborne was one of my favorite game experiences of this generation). Interesting if this game sets some kind of experimental precedent in trying to build a more combat oriented style for them moving forward because combat certainly isn't their forte (nor is it I think the true focus of all the games, hence why I'm not that hard on it), but it is minimalist and works to a fault. I've noticed (it appears others in this forum have already said it) how a lot of it is the old dodge/block and counter formula, but it discourages evasion by the looks of it (very anti-Bloodborne's evasive aggression approach) and opts for this steadfast defense with reactive countering as the focus over proactivity.

I could be really presumptuous here about it though, but that's my initial impression. I can see there being a huge issue of repetition with that kind of thing though - at what point does a set number of combos and returns get boring for a player from enemies?

I look forward to finding out. I always get value out of any game usually, so I look forward to discovering more.

Sekiro is mostly a very complicated version of Simon Says, with memorization at the heart of it. Each enemy and boss is a case of knowing the moves and which response of yours fits best. Because enemies come in such small numbers it can play out this way, also in thanks to its low game speed.

The dodge does play a part but generally speaking not nearly as much, the parry+jump+mikiri reaction is at the center of this design.

NOTE: the game is exceptionally better when fully patched as it really makes the sub-weapons a lot more useful.

I haven't been able to play as much due to work getting intensive among other things, but I've definitely been encountering the basis of what you're talking about and I do enjoy the applicability of the mikiri. It's functional and certain fights are engaging, yet I've been feeling a disconnect playing this one and I'm really not sure why. That's usually a sign to me that A) I ought to try something else, or B) Keep playing and experimenting. But it seems like A is the more prevalent inclination of the two. I might just have to set it down for now and try something else, but it definitely seems like a "me" thing.

One big downside of Sekiro is that experimentation often is a road that just makes the game harder without any reward. In most cases a regular parry or mikiri with a slash here and there is the optimal way of murdering someone, even bosses, with only a few exceptions (which are usually exploiting a certain prosthetic or item combination).

I would say try to beat it at least once. The final boss is fantastic and worth it imo.