You are not connected. Please login or register

Could use a few general tips in NGB so far

+3
Royta/Raeng
TaiTsurugi
HotPocketHPE
7 posters

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1Could use a few general tips in NGB so far Empty Could use a few general tips in NGB so far Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:27 am

HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

I've been very slowly making my way through NGB on Normal, just beat Chapter 4. This game/difficulty is pretty generous with the healing items and such, so I'm sure I could beat it pretty quickly if that was my goal, but I'm mainly trying to understand the combat system and general strategy. Here are my questions so far:


  • What's the strategy on breaking enemy guards? Most "normal" strings just get blocked (e.g. XXX, XXY). The Y attack from walljump and charged Y seem to pierce guard, anything else?
  • The charged Y seems to activate extremely fast if you use it right after landing, IDK why this happens or if this is part of some overall structure.
  • In general, what's the strategy for dealing with many enemies? Shurikens work to a degree but against multiple enemies with guns I haven't found a way to not eat lots of chip damage.
  • Does the blue afterimage effect on some attacks designate anything other than the move generally being high damage? E.g. Y from walljump, charged Y, Y from wallrun
  • Some moves seem to have iframes such as 360Y, I luckily discovered this while an exploding shuriken was lodged in my chest. Are there any other big moves or movement options with iframes, or is there a way to tell? It's a bit hard to notice just playing the game normally.
  • This sounds silly but is "running" (as in the "while running" moves in the movelist) just holding the stick in a direction for a bit? I don't think there is a sprint or anything as far as I can find.


Cool game so far though, movement is pretty fun.

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
C-Rank

>breaking guard

There are some specific moves that excel at breaking guards. With the dragon sword, XY (keep Y pressed) or ->Y on landing ->Y (more on the on landing later) are excellent choices. Y,Y and ->Y with heavy weapons is also good. In general you should experiment, but if you want a list I can probably find it somewhere.

>Charge on landing

You found one of the most important pieces of techs in the game. Like you saw there are specific "on landing frames" where you can do certain action faster. One of this examples are UT (the charged attacks), the other propriety this on landing (OL) frames have is that if you use an OL UT you will immediatly absorb every essence currently active. Absorb 2 yellow or 1 blue or red and you will immediatly charge up an UT. Note that if you kill an enemy with a UT you will always get money (yellow essence) at a multiplied rate (i think it's 7x but I'm not completely sure)

>multiple enemies

The easiest way to deal with them is chaining OL UTs. As long as you kill 2 enemies so they drop 2 yellow essence, you will be able to immediatly chain another OL UT. Using the Lunar UT here works wonders.
In more general terms don't do long string (->Y into Izuna Drop with the sword is extremely effective against humanoids), stay on the move using wind path into wind run (X+A, then A when above an enemy so it jumps on his head), wall attacks (both of this have iframes on them) and flying swallow. Keep an eye on enemy states,the soldier with the grenade launcher, for example, will drop it if you get close to them and the normal soldier will similarly change from ranged mode to melee.
While on the defensive know that the guard is extremely strong and if you get guard broken, know that you can cancel the recovery into a roll and immediatly guard again.

>blue afterimage

I'm not entirely sure about this one, some of the moves have iframes, but I don't think it applies to everything.

>Iframes move

360Y with the sword, wind run, wind path, wall attacks, UTs ,ETs (when you only charge one stage) and using Ninpo are the main ones. There are some more, but finding them is a matter of experimentation.

>running

Yes just move in a direction, you need a second of so to start the run tho, it's no instant.


There's more, of course, but I don't want to spoil more than I arleady did. If you have any other question just ask.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The healing system is pretty lenient as you note, on the highest difficulty you can still carry nearly 7 lifebars worth of healing with you. On Normal it can get as wild as 14 lifebars IIRC.

> breaking guard
Each weapon has a unique stat relating to this, some weapons break guard more easily like the Dabi while others less so. This also goes reverse by the way, with some of your weapons having an easier time breaking their own guard when blocking with them. Note that if your guard is broken you can just let go of the guard button and press it again, this is called a guard-reset.

Personally I find it best to just keep on the pressure or to throw them.

> charged Y
The technique is called an On Landing Ultimate Technique or OLUT for short and it is a key component for high level NG and NGII gameplay. Managing essence is a big part of the gameplay. Do you let it float (by holding block), do you absorb it (by doing nothing) or do you use it as fuel for a stronger attack (OLUT)? Lots of microdecisions.

Note that Essence's value is partially decided this way too. A regular absorb gives you 100% of its value, while an UT absorb only 15% (iirc). While a foe killed by an UT gives an essence orb that is 400% of the value (iirc, don't quote me on these values). Note that a foe killed by an UT can ONLY drop yellow essence, so if you're hurting for a blue-orb to heal, keep that in mind.

> multiple enemies
Divide and conquer for the most part, enemies aren't that spongy. Note Ryu's mobility and the generally large arenas. Dodge around, put distance between yourself and the groups and single out a foe. Wall-attacks are very overpowered in this game but be wary as they can also breed bad habbits (panic jumping).

> blue after image
It is just fancy. Most of those moves have i.frames, but it isn't consistent at all and some moves that don't have it (XXY with the lunar for instance) do have i.frames.

> i.frames
As noted, the ones Tai pointed out. But there are a ton of i.frames in every combo during certain parts of the animation but that's all just a safety net to make those combos more viable in the thick of it. Experimentation is key here. Sometimes it is literally a frame or two.

> running
The best movement is dodge > jump, at least starting out. Later-on "continuous jumping" is key, which means pressing Direction+A on landing, this lets Ryu jump extremely fast: https://youtu.be/tB9NfMYoebQ?t=386
(mechanics are generally carried over in the games, this was the only footage I could find quickly)

If you have any more questions, hit us up!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

>Multiple Enemies
Smoke Bombs prevent enemies from spamming projectiles right? Might be worth experimenting with.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

^that's a good tip. I always forgot to mention those. Fantastic weapon.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

Coming from NG2 I have some questions.

IIRC in NG2 dragged essence would follow you across the entire map as soon as you let go of block, here it only seems to be a few feet.
So you can let go of block as soon as you are a bit away.
Is that correct, or was this how it was in 2 and I am remembering bad.

I am having troubles with OLUTs in small rooms, I keep sticking to the walls. Didn't have this issue as much in 2, any tips there?
EDIT: As I posted this I saw Bigal using shuriken to stop a wall cling, Awesome!

Overall the game feels a lot clunkier, the camera is inverted on the X and Y, which is insane.
I do love that the game is much slower, it allows you to actually plan some combos, strings etc. Where NG2 is so fast, you have a split second to choose most actions.

Is Wind Run(the X and A one) I-framed in this game? I thought it wasn't in 2?

Also can whatever it is called when you hold Y for just a split second and don't absorb or glow, give you blue essence or are they like fully charged UTs, just money?

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> Essence
You can let go of block after a few meters away from the orb, after that it'll automatically drag to you if you UT. This way you can keep an essence in one room and then drag it to the next. Note that some rooms despawn essence if you enter them.

> camera
Jup, by default, this is why I just accepted my fate and inverted the X-axis in all my games from that point forward. Better to just accept it haha.

> slower game
Yeah it really is a different game in that sense, and also the reason why so many players who thought they were good at NGB, sucked at NGII.

> wind run
A lot of little animations have i.frames in them, be it very shortly. IIRC wind run doesn't have i.frames but it does reduce your hurtbox by a significant margin.

> ETs
IIRC ETs count as UTs.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

> Essence
Was this exactly how it worked in 2?


>IIRC ETs count as UTs.
So not ET, specifically Haze Straight Slash, when you don't absorb anything. Curious if that allows you to get blue orbs, since you aren't invincible during it.

Also do you know who we are killing at the beginning of the game?
Murai is all chill and I just murdered about 50 people lol

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

No, in NG(S)2 essence would automatically be absorbed when all enemies were dead - regardless of holding block.

> who are we murdering
IIRC Ryu goes to there to train with Murai and the Ninjas are his students, who Ryu slaughters. It's simply the ninja-code. They couldn't defend themselves.

Ryu is a psychopath.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

I love how fast you can soft reset then load back into the game.

The bow is very not fun. I thought it was bad in NG2 lol.

Holy shit chaining forward Y's with DS, so good

Is fire wheels good at all? Looks like it doesn't level up.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Fire Wheels is extremely powerful if you use it with the correct openings. It's useful for some funky loops or OHKO-setups against bosses.

I always use it to nuke Dynamo (Smoke bomb > fire wheels > XYY with nunchucks) and juggle Alma (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxY0YoSU5rM)

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

I feel like dynamo will be easier on harder modes with lackies because you can get essence.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I never used UTs on him, could never get them to connect properly. I always just nuke him hard with smokebombs>firewheels>XYY, he generally dies before I run out of bombs.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

It is very easy to farm essence in this game if you know how the multiplier works, because there are so many re spawning enemies.
Is it this easy in every difficulty? Wish 2 was like this.

Also should I mess with the wooden sword on my first run? I was thinking of just sticking to 2 to 3 weapons.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

You can farm essence pretty easily in NGII as well since there's a few infinite-respawn fights. Though on higher settings these enemies are a lot more juicy. Note that essence-farming can nuke your rank from orbit if you care about that sort of thing.

But yeah I usually have like 30.000 at the end of chapter 1 and that's nearly without any respawned fights. Once you know how the system works it's super easy to exploit. But also great. It adds a little layer of economy/tactics mid-combat that is absent in other games.

> wooden sword
You can do it if you want. I tend to just upgrade everything to max so I can derp around.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>You can farm essence pretty easily in NGII as well since there's a few infinite-respawn fights.
It is no where near as easy, 2 has farms SPOTS. This whole damn game respawns, all of the stuff after you land on vigoor respawns.

I have been just practicing killing the soldiers and after I finally got to the point where I could style and not just wall attack/UT, I decided to move to the spider ninjas.
Damn, they don't play.
They aren't as hard as 2 probably, but I feel like they love comboing you more than the IS in 2.
It's funny not many games these days will let multiple enemies fight you at once, it is like that John Romreo video, enemies these days just queue. But in NG, shit they all go ham on you, on NORMAL. Love it.
Anyways the ninjas were destroying me, but I just slowed it down and realized they kept hitting me because I was dodging and jumping to much. If you just keep your guard up bait, dodge izuna or whatever, they aren't too bad. Excited to see them on higher difficulties.
Knowing I can guillotine, wind path, etc. when stuck with IS from 2 helps.

Also started seeing fiends, i like them so far. Was surprised to see you could wind path the big red dragons.
The enemies in this game are really grab happy.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> farming
Ah I thought you were still derping in Chapter 1 or 2 for some reason, there's only a few respawn spots there hence my stuff. But yeah the regular game is full respawn city.

> ninjas
Note that if they roll, they'll do a grab. That's the tell usually. It's very tempting to jump around but they're best fought in the ground game as you note. Don't forget to parry them, works wonders. The regular kick-parry with the DS into >YXXXY is golden.

> windpath dragons
Remember this for the future.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

Any reason to use the nunchucks over the flails?

Also, are the mosquito guys in the catacombs the lamest enemy in any NG game? lol wtf

The big lumbering zombie guys are really well designed, extremely fair, love that enemy.

What do I press to get out of grabs? I saw jtb button mashing something when grabbed.

Do you know if the scarlet dragon, the forward Y hold with DS, the one where you stay grounded does the same damage as azure dragon, the forward Y tap, the one that launches you?

Which ninpo should i prioritize upgrades?

Jtb says ice storm is rubish, agree?

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> nunchuck
It is completely invalidated by the Flails imo, though it has a much cooler SFX haha.

> mosquito
They are basic essence-generation, though still decently fun to derp around with since you can parry them.

> zombies
Fantastic enemies imo, fun to fight though a bit too easy to UT abuse, but hey, still great.

> forwardY
IIRC it deals a bit more damage, but don't quote me on that one. I'm not too sagely on NG's damage values.

> ninpo
Inazuma is the most broken against regular enemies, killing entire rooms. Fantastic animation too. IIRC for karma runners you keep it at level2. Inferno is great for canceling combos and nuking bosses. You can for example do >Y into inferno with the dabi to have a fully safe string.

> ice storm
It's terrible. I get what they were going for but it's basically a budget Inazuma.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

I wandered into the archive challenge without knowing about it. Was very confused why that was so damn hard out of nowhere haha.
I am really bad at fighting bosses in NG games, especially the huge ones, or flying ones.
Just need more practice, but it is like a completely different game compared to a room of IS ninjas.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Ha, sounds familiar! Had the exact same when I first started playing, thought the game glitched or something since there were so many enemies...

> bosses
Never were the strongest part of the series imo. I know there's a subsection that really enjoys fighting them in games like Sigma 2, and only them, but for me they were always too 1v1 - while the series' strength has always been the multimanness.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>the series' strength has always been the multimanness.

Yeah imo NG2 IS ninjas and the insanity of that is peak NG. So chaotic but fun.


Sloppily beat Alma. They only way I could even get a hit in was using ninpo through her attacks. Felt like a shameful ninja.
Then noticed you can't do archive challenge after Alma so I loaded my save and did it.
Not too bad, the monk guys can be ignored mostly and just lunar ut the fiends.
After that monks are a joke one on one.

Gonna practice with alma more to try and not feel like a ninja dog.

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

What is with the little run ryu will do after a roll jump while holding block? It sucks because you can't do anything when he does it.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Not fully sure what you're talking about, are you letting go of the stick mid-jump? Could be a buffer issue. Never had an issue with this myself tbh.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

So this is specifically if you keep block held, and do roll jumps by just tapping the stick while blocking.
If you do it in the same direction, and press forward on the stick too early, Ryu will do like a quick run, four steps, where you cannot cancel it.

It seems the only way to not do it is either let go of block and tap it to roll.
Dodge in different directions instead of straight, or wait until ryu has come to a complete stop before tapping forward again.

This is only an issue when there are machine gun enemies as I have to keep the block held down. Normally I roll jump by just tapping block. It doesn't happen there.

EDIT:
I filmed it real quick.
This is just me blocking and pushing the stick forward after a roll jump. I can't roll forward when he runs like this. I can roll sideways to cancel it.

HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

Using my old topic, finally picked the game up again and beat Normal. I actually get stuff like OLUT, the movement, guard reset, etc etc. now. The bosses are really wacky, Alma and 1st Murai are okay but other than that ehhh... How did ZOE2 get this right?

Mainly used the Dragon Sword, for Hard I'll branch out and mess with other weapons. Haven't used the Shurikens much either, gotta do that as they're probably good for pressure.

Can you do jump -> OLUT from block with essence next to you without absorbing the essence early?

Wind Path is rad.

GN1


C-Rank

Seems like you already get it, but yeah shurikens are great for crowd control and staggering enemies, same goes for Wind Path but of course in a different way. Wind Path can also stagger bigger enemies which will not be stunned by regular shurikens.

While I personally only started doing mission mode after I beat Master Ninja, it might be a good idea to at least attempt the first mission there and practice with the different weapons you can use there.

You might already know about it, but on hard and above you you'll encounter a new boss, which is not only the best boss in the game, but just a great boss from a mechanical standpoint.

Malcar

Malcar
C-Rank

>The bosses are really wacky
Yeah not a fan of them. They force you too much on certain strats without much room for experimentation. Even the NGII bosses suffer from this.

>gotta do that as they're probably good for pressure
Aside from staggering and crowd control they are useful for animation cancelling. Give it a try.

>Can you do jump -> OLUT from block with essence next to you without absorbing the essence early?
You can't jump directly from a block, but you can from a roll. So you can block -> roll -> jump -> OLUT without absorbing essence, since in the air you can't absorb it.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> bosses
Probably the weakest part, it's all about finding the unique opening and playing around it. You can toy around a bit, i.e. special setups. For example with Murai, you can bait his roll by turning away from him at a certain distance. Then when you punish his roll, you can do XY into OL-Y. The OL-Y is grab invincible (only in Black), and he'll punish your XY with a grab, so you get massive damage out it. This type of stuff and these sorts of interactions will be your main enjoyment out of them.

Note that bosses, fights etc. are generally designed for beginners to use items against them. You can carry around 7-healthbars worth of potions, there's no shame in using them at first nor are you penalized for drinking them.

> shurikens
As noted, great for crowd controle. Biggest tip I can give, outside of using them to cancel animations like XXY for example, is to throw them at enemies you aren't engaging. Doing XXY on a foe in front of you, canceling the recovery into a shuriken to the guy behind you, is great stuff.

> jump into OLUT
Distance is a factor, otherwise you need to roll-jump or use moves that put you into the air like XY. You can sorta do attacks by really, really shortly letting go of block and repressing, but this is super hard. I can't even do it in NG:B, though I can sometimes do it in NGII.

> other weapons
Dragon Sword is a great all rounder, but Dabi/Hammer/UF are great heavy hitters with their UT while the Lunar has a better UT and general moveset than the Dragon Sword (but lacks the FS and later-on damage bonus it gets). Flail is style (and has some funky stuff like using the kick-talisman with >YYY).
Note that the True Dragon Sword and Warhammer get a (pretty sizable, might I add) damage bonus against Fiends and Alma in particular. By comparison the Warhammer deals around 200-300% more damage than the Dabilahro against Alma, it's really big.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum