Action RPGs

That really was a passion project from what I heard, know some people in real life that were quite fond of that title.

Not a JRPG, but Kingdoms of Amalur is getting a remaster, and that has really similar vibes to a lot of games discussed here like Ys or the newer Ni No Kuni. I've been meaning to revisit it, so hopefully this doesn't bungle the port work

>not a jrpg

True, though I'm not sure it really matters.
What do you think Roy? Should we make a new topic for western ARPGs?

As for JRPGs, I'm considering the .hack collection on PS4. Anyone play these?

I'm more than open for it, or we can just rename this topic Action RPGs. Both work for me.

>just rename this topic Action RPGs.

done

Got Trails of Cold Steel 3. Played the demo first. Feels a little like a mix of Valkyria Chonicles and Arc The Lad: Twilight Of The Spirits. No idea when I'll get to playing it though.

Got Fairy Fencer F and Atelier Ryza. No idea when I'll get to them.

How exactly do you guys define an action RPG? Obviously NOT turn based. But what about these ones like Valkyria Chronicles or Trails of Cold Steel where you have turns but can still move freely within a limited area?

I think the latter are more Strategy or Tactical, whatever you want to call them. Personally I would categorize an Action RPG as an Action game with RPG elements i.e. Dark Souls or an RPG game with Action elements i.e. Tales. In both the defining feature being that you press a button to attack and it immediately happens and you basically have full controle over your character's actions and movement.

A bit vague but I think you'all get me.

I've barely played Tales of Vesperia and I'm not sure I'm going to again depending on the answer to this question.

Is this game's combat all about comboing? Are there any status effects? If so are they even usable or is it all just chaining attacks like what I see in the combo videos?

I'm wondering if DBZ Kakarot is any good.

I've heard really mixed things. Some like it, but it is mostly a barren wasteland from what I've also heard with massive RPG-to-win aspects.

What can RPGs do to avoid this?

Usually if the mechanics are good I'm ok but Kakarot looks the same throughout the entire game.

Looks like it has those magnet attacks where you just home in and attack. This means there are no properly defined attack ranges.

Birdman wrote:I've barely played Tales of Vesperia and I'm not sure I'm going to again depending on the answer to this question.

Is this game's combat all about comboing? Are there any status effects? If so are they even usable or is it all just chaining attacks like what I see in the combo videos?

The game does have status effects, but you're not gonna centralize a strategy around them. Still, there are certain moves that are very helpful to a character for their status. Estelle in particular has the infamous Pow Hammer, which has a chance of inflicting Stun based on how many times you've used the move throughout the game, increasing with each use. Still they're few and far in-between, for non-combat options you're better off with buffs, which are much more plentiful with some interesting effects

Combos are central to the game, but it's not as simple as that. You need to and should want to combo, but not because it's an easy way to deal damage and purely as an easy way to deal damage.

The Tales series doesn't have traditional RPG roles, and does not have things like Aggro. Enemies can and will change who they're paying attention to on a whim. The point of combos besides dealing damage is to keep enemies busy- more fragile characters who attack from the backline such as spellcasters can't combo as easily, but their burst damage is a lot more than a physical fighter's DPS. You combo enemies to keep them unable to do anything to your party members, stagger enemy spellcasters so they can't get their spells off, etc. Combos are also about movement, it's not apparent in the beginning of the game, but every combo oriented character gets attacks that move you and the enemy around, a couple even getting air combos, that are used as much for dodging as they are for attacking. For example, the only reliable way for Yuri to dodge the spell Tidal Wave is to do an air combo on thin air until the spell is done (most characters are better off just blocking it).

For Vesperia in particular, there's also the case of Fatal Strikes. It's a mechanic you unlock later in the game, but the gist of it is if you use enough attacks with a certain attribute, you get a chance to perform a Fatal Strike and kill them in one hit. On bosses, they instead do a large amount of damage. Fatal Strikes end combos and the "Fatal Strike Chain" mechanic does not require combos (though they certainly do make it easier).

So yes, the game's all about combos, but not because it's stylish or anything like that. Tales explores the different possible utilities of combos, like the fighting games they're based on.

By the way, since the game doesn't teach you this, make sure you play Vesperia on Manual Mode. Doing that gives you the ability to Manual Cancel. Manual Cancel lets you cancel any grounded action into a Guard for free. It's useful not just for combo extensions, but also as a defensive option to stay safe.

Also, there are some bosses (Alexei, etc.) that you simply will not be able to combo, at least on a first run, so the game does test your abilities besides comboing. And bosses that you can combo have a Combo Breaker system that makes the act of comboing a lot more complex than just knowing which attacks chain into each other (which is already complex in and of itself). You really need to figure the boss out and make sure you don't get punished for comboing them mindlessly and instead turn it into an opportunity for more attacks.

Doesn't sound like my thing at all. I'll hold onto it for now because I'm unable to sell it for more than $10. Will give it a chance at some point but it's not high on my list.

Has anyone played Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive on Switch?

It's on sale now. Never thought I'd see a Nintendo game on sale.

Are there builds?

Anyone played Banner of the Maid?

Anybody getting Ys IX? I’m really interested in it for some reason.

Google auto-corrected "Ys IX" to "Ys IX gameplay" for me. Today was a good day haha. But no, not interested in it myself. I think Firma played some of those games?

I've been playing Ys 1 on the side, but you know me. I'm the type to get distracted by other things easily.

What? Magic affects the environment?

Neat.

I'll probably grab this. It's super cheap now.

I heard you can boil or electrify water too.

Everyone says the game is too easy and all you need to do is attack. So all this shit has been overlooked.

>game is too easy and all you need to do is attack.

If you over level and use potions.

If you fight things way over your level, don't use potions, or try for no damage. Game is challenging.
Really loved my time with FF15.

Asetoni FFXV on YT has great combat guide videos if you pick it up.

RPGs really should just be labbled "put in effort and you'll get a golden combat system". Far too many just up the numbers and use that to brute force their way through. Game looks pretty solid!

Good to know it has some challenge run potential.

I just posted my attempt at one on Fairy Tail. If you're interested go read for details. Basically you HAVE to grind right from the start.

So my question is, why do devs waste their time on adding all these mechanics then making them not work?

>Asetoni

Good for melee stuff but doesn't seem to have anything on magic and status effects like the one I posted. Did I miss something?

Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for the Royal Edition.

On the topic of Action RPG's, the remake of Trails of Mana (2020) is very compelling video game. I will start off by saying aspects of it are rough. Story is cheesy and the voice acting is Resident Evil levels of bad. And beyond the combat and the system surrounding it, there is not much in the way of side quests and other filler. I love this about the game personally but I can see if you play RPG's to feel full immersed in the world this game might feel like a let down.

What I love about the game is of course the action. You can a party of 3 characters which you choose at the beginning of the game from 6. They all feel different and very fun to play. And to add there is a job system for each character to do down, so you can fine tune a build depending on how you play. The game has a heavy and quick attack as well as a charge attack. Plus you can cast spells which can attack or buff depending on the character. When you enter battles it is all real time with no battle transition. But you will be locked to a battle area. It can be compared to a Tales of game but you have much more free movement on the battle field plus the game rewards timed evasions and you can jump which allows for in air combat.

If your a person who love bright whimsical visuals then Trials of Mana will probably look incredible to you. The characters kind of remind me of a Kirby game or a mushroom kingdom based Mario game. All the enemies have a cute bubbly look to them and the characters feel equally as charming.

I recommend playing on hard because I hear the game gets really easy on lower difficulties, plus if you ever decide to do a second run that will unlock you a harder mode which really adds a layer of depth to the combat which I found incredibly satisfying. Definite recommend from me if your into these types of games

>magic and status effects

Magic from what I remember is more of a full screen nuke or a lengthy animation single target.
There is friendly fire, but you can put on a ring to nulify it. There are weakness like robots weak to elec.
You craft spells with element rocks in the world, and items in your inventory. A really good health potion for example, might craft a fireball that heals you.
The spells are items you equip and there are cooldowns. I think you can have 4 at once?

I didn't spend much time with it, seemed way op. Melee was much more interesting.

>. A really good health potion for example, might craft a fireball that heals you.

Wtf...

Wait so does that mean you don't permanently have spells?

Could you make poison fire or something?

>Wait so does that mean you don't permanently have spells?

Yes. But he crafting stuff is everywhere and you often craft like 6 uses at a time.
The cool downs would probably keep you from running out since they can't all be spammed.


>Could you make poison fire or something?
I am pretty sure you can.

Was looking for info on the boards (mistake) and found this classic.

"Bait topic, but FFXV's combat is definitely not good. Even if there is hidden "depth" to the combat, or whatever, there's no point in actually uncovering it since all you have to do to win *is* button mash."

Intentional mechanical blindness.

I hear nothing but criticism towards XV. Even XIII-1 and LR seem to receive some love, but only for the combat system.

Please, do tell your experience with XV whenever you get around to it.

What I've heard constantly over the years is it's so easy you actually just hold circle to auto attack and you'll win the whole game. This is all anyone says and I've seen them go berserk when someone brings up mechanics or videos. Then they go into the tired old 'you don't need to use any of that' argument while not realizing you never have to use the majority of options in games like DMC.

I once completed Bayo and DMC 4 without switching weapons to prove the point that they're just as bad in this regard. Not in response to FFVX; it was some other game. Even on DMD I didn't need to change anything to simply win. They called me a liar or not playing 'properly'. Because only their special games need to be played properly despite being guilty of what they accuse others of.

Yeah, I've heard pretty much the same complaints. ''Hold button to win''.

I really like Final Fantasy XV, but it is far from a game I enjoyed for the combat system. I feel Final Fantasy Type 0 HD had a far more engaging combat system and besides the roots of it being a PSP game, I found it insanely fun to play

>''Hold button to win''.

I doubt it's even possible unless you are far stronger than the enemy so you can freely tank hits.

But what happens is these mechanically blind losers scream something enough and it eventually becomes 'fact'.

I am aware the upcoming Final Fantasy XVI has one of the combat directors who used to work at Capcom. Ryota Suzuki who assisted on Devil May Cry 5 and Monster Hunter games, to name a few games. So I do hope FFXVI does break some boundaries in terms of action jrpgs

Found two ancient PS2 RPGS that look interesting.

Tsunugai Atonement.

The video doesn't go much into the combat. I've been able to piece together a bit of the combat system from parts of other videos. It's turn based. When an enemy attacks, you can use the face buttons to do different types of blocks. You can counter and dodge too. I think some of these use meter. You can do special moves with the meter too.

The amulets offer some level of customization. Not sure how much. Each has a shape and attributes are those little triangles. You can rotate and slot them in. I'm downloading an ISO now.



Tower of Druaga

I vaguely remember looking into this game when it was released. At the time I wasn't that into RPGs though, so I forgot about it. Looks like it works like the Mystery Dungeon series, where every step of action you take, the enemies also take one. Don't know much about it. I'm downloading the ISO, but not super interested right now. Another for the list.

I had no idea Tower of Druaga ha an entry on the ps2 version. I have never played but the original arcade game is famous for being cryptic and full of secrets, people in japanese arcades had a shared notebook where they noted all their discoveries.
And yeah it's a Mistery Dungeon game, Fushigi No Dungeon is the japanese name of the series.
Kinda of a pity that a game famous for his secrets has been into a roguelike, curious to see how much of the original design has been kept in. Let me know when you get around to it.

I actually own the PS2 version of Druaga. It is an interesting game for sure. It took me forever back in the day to really get into it.

If I may be allowed to rant a little bit...

If you enjoy 2D Action RPGs and you should totally check out the remaster of Legend of Mana which releases June 24. Honestly put it is one of my favourite games of all time. The game was originally released on the PS1 and it is one of the few games on that console the still holds up incredibly well visually, large part due to the 2D visuals. Everything in the game looks hand drawn and the game has some stellar writing. Of course why I love Legend of Mana is the gameplay. It plays like a fantasy brawler close to Golden Axe, Capcom's old Dungeons and Dragons games, or even Princess Crown on the Saturn.

I highly recommend this one

How indicative is Sword of Mana to Legend of Mana's quality? I played the former and really did not enjoy my time with it at the time. Note that I was a dumb teenager at the time, but I tried it again later and the game just did not align with me at all.

I prefer Legend of Mana much more. I think playing both the games into my adult-hood, Legend of Mana feel more open and experimental compared to almost any of the Mana games prior or since. It is not a game that tries to tell a big epic story or anything. It is far more personal. You find yourself (your main character) bumping into scenarios where other characters are already experience certain conflicts. Story progresses through completing quests and unlocking more of the world as you progress. The is very non linear as well. You can really choose which order you do a lot of quests in which has given the game for me in the past 20 years lots of replay value.

The combat in Legend of Mana is much less "button bashy" aswell. There is a bunch of different weapons each with there own move set and abilities and to make combos you have to push buttons in sequence.

And if your into music in video games, the Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy XV compose Yoko Shimormura did Legend of Mana as well. I believe it was the first fantasy rpg we ever wrote a soundtrack for (Don't quote me on that one) and there is defiantly a style in the game that would bleed into later Square JRPGs.

I've really come dislike RPGs with 'break' mechanics. Put some more time into Trails Of Cold Steel 3 and just couldn't stand it.

On to Ni No Kuni Remastered. Played a few hours last year but now getting right into it. I often read that physical attackers are all that matter and sadly I'm seeing signs of it even this early in the game.

Status effects are 50/50 at the moment.

Since your love of status-effects, I'm curious if you've played the Pokémon games and what your take on those are Bird.

Only played Blue not long after release. Wasn't that into RPGs back then. I wouldn't bother with Pokemon now. In my day son, there were only 150 pokemon. Now there's like 3000 that range from living household objects to completely unidentifiable RE creations.

I grew up with Blue too. That said, some of the later remakes are great too like Soul Silver (best in the series so I'm told). Still has the best status-effects under the sun imo, just very reliable and each with unique quirks. For the gameplay I'd still recommend it honestly.

>best status effects

I never thought about it, but I think you might be right. Oddly enough I never had the interest to get past the second city in Soul Silver, even though I beat the original Silver multiple times. Also, any input on gen 5? Been told it and the gen 2 remakes were the best gameplay wise. May need to try one of these and try something else besides exploiting weaknesses and applying offensive buffs occasionally.

Yeah the systems are all pretty well thought out. Sleep is king probably, in that it disables certain enemies completely. But it can also be used in conjuction, like Sleep Talk and there are attacks that can combine with it i.e. Snorlax using Rest and then Sleep Talk.

Burned deals minor damage, but mostly it's massive melee-debuff is fantastic. Even absolute melee champs like early gen Hitmonchamp couldn't do much when afflicted with it. Freeze is pretty much curtains unless you catch fire or defrost (items). Poison is neat. Toxic starts weak, but doubles in damage every turn (forcing a switch). Spikes play into this. Paralysis is neat in that it has a %  chance to skip the opponents turn, but mostly reduces their speed by a huge amount.

Not to mention the weather-change mechanics and how they work with certain skills and all those other combinations. Or certain 'soft' buffs like Wish that allow you to heal other characters, batton-pass, subsititute, protect, reflect and all that. So many great moves.

> best games
Never played the later ones so cannot comment. Heard good things but others say less than favourable stuff about them. Might be worth messaging Khayam about it, I think he played them all IIRC.

> exploiting
The games are too darn easy sadly, but you can already see it in the online-meta where 90% of the moves used are non-damage attacks, just how good those moves are.

Really don't want to get into Pokemon.
There will probably be ones I want and can't get due to trading. Not interested in online. I avoid multiplayer games now.

Pokemon's battle system is actually pretty good, especially for PvP. As Roy mentioned, there are a lot of different mechanics to take advantage of, like typings, buffs/debuffs (attack/speed buffs are extremely powerful in Pokemon), status, weather, entry hazards, etc.

But the problem is that what really make things interesting in single battles is switching, and the AI basically never does this in an interesting way. This is a fundamental flaw of the series, made even worse if you don't turn Shift off, which lets you switch for free whenever you get a KO.

You can kinda sidestep the problem by doing what Colosseum/XD do and make everything a double battle, where switching is slightly less needed. You can also take the ROMhack route and just make the enemy Pokemon very strong, while have the player overcome that strength through use of switching. This sounds okay but in practice still feels underwhelming to me, because you are still ignoring a core gameplay aspect that many mechanics (e.g. Toxic ramp-up damage) are balanced around.

If someone were to play Pokemon PvE, I would recommend ROMhacks or fangames, they are strictly superior to GameFreak stuff IMO. Drayano's hacks are cool, he ups the difficulty across the board, does a stat/movepool rebalance for many underused Pokemon, and lets you catch all Pokemon in-game without trading or events. I played his Black/White hack, it was pretty fun as far as Pokemon goes. For PvP just use the simulator Showdown, don't bother with any actual games.