Your not seeing what I'm saying here
Maybe, but in addition to being hit WHILE being stuck in a grab, you have also mentioned being stunlocked while being hit. I'll try to answer all your points and see if I'm getting exactly what you want to say.
God hand you have iframes right after god hand and roulette uses as it lets you gain control and not immediately take damage with no chance to react as you are stuck in an animation.
There is a difference here. These are abilities designed with i-frames given to you in order to use them effectively or we wouldn't use them at all. I don't have an issue with this.
Not a reward it's to allow chance to recover so you can't be hit constantly during recovery
Recovery as in, once you hit the ground and are considered 'down'? Or instances with grabs where you might be able to shake off the attack, and in that instance where you haven't fully regained control right?
I can agree that it sucks to be grabbed and have some other guy hit you while you're still in the grab. But as long as the grab (which I consider no more than another attack) is avoidable then there's no issue for me.
Not a reward it's to allow chance to recover so you can't be hit constantly during recovery,which can lead to unfair situations and make certain actions practically useless.
In terms of getting hit by attacks consecutively, for example, say a ranged enemy shoots you with an arrow, and you get a small stun, then a nearby enemy with a sword jump slashes you while you're still reeling from the arrow. I have no problem with this. Avoid the arrow. I know you were originally talking about EW, but this concept can apply to any game with combat. Action games usually give you tons of options to avoid damage, with i-frames on dodges, jumps, attacks, and various abilities.
In the case of re4 during a GRAB you are invincible for sake of balance
1)This isn't RE4.
2)Not every horror or action game has them, or at least not in the same place and it doesn't mean they HAVE to have them. If the attack is avoidable in the first place, it's fine.
it's a loop of being hit then being hit then being hit with no chance of surviving.
Avoiding the first hit solves this. And even when you get hit or grabbed, it's not even like this most of the time even in EW.
I'm not in control during recovery and a grab, all because I didn't avoid a grab which was my fault not the chain of events that folllow.
I agree it sucks when it happens, but I never had an issue with it even then. Because once I let a guy get close enough, for whatever reason, with his fellows in tow, I knew I had royally f*cked up.
The fact that we know what happens when we get grabbed with enemies nearby means we have an advantage right there. We have the tools to avoid it, though yes, there are some nasty situations, though only the burning house was really a problem due to lack of space, but even that we prepare for with bolts.
What are you interpreting with my writing exactly? What logic do you think I'm using?
That you can deal with the situation, but you don't want to I guess. I never felt anything needed i-frames just because if they caught me I could potentially be heavily damaged by follow up attacks.
In vanquish If you had iframes for whole overheat it would be unbalanced as you would be immortal and their would be no penalty for overheating.
I guess I see anything that happens after you screw up as a penalty for screwing up. Which it is.
You get iframes in fighters, like after getting hard knockdowned you get iframes for the RECOVERY animation usually so you can't be hit with no pause that's a fighting game balance,
My point in mentioning fighters is because I asked you if you have an issue with getting stunlocked by regular attacks and you did.
combos only last so long so you have a chance to recover and retaliate.
Like the majority of your health.
If you get hit in a fighter than that's usually p your fault, then you get comboed until the combo ends, then you can regain CONTROL.
Yeah eventually, but I guess this comes down to how you view being grabbed in EW. To me it's an attack, like a Tekken launcher. Once either hits you, you lose all control until the opponent/enemy is done with you. Answer? Don't get launched and don't get grabbed. Work towards this.
In tekken you can roll away to avoid hits after being knocked down, that's to help let you regain control.
True, but even then with good players there are numerous options for catching tech rolls that lead into more hits/combos. They let you TRY to regain control but they aren't safe.
stop equating horror=no iframes and action=iframes, iframes are a tool to balance a game. It's one of many tools to allow for a safe RECOVERY.
Not in every game. Multiple ghosts in Fatal Frame can combo grab you. Haunting Ground slowly makes you lose control the higher your panic gets, and you can end up running into walls, and then the stalker hits you during the rebound. If you're on the ground from being knocked down, the stalker can pounce on you and you're dead unless you can get Hewie to attack enough to hold them off long enough for you to get back up. I could list numerous examples that would take pages on all kinds of games where follow up damage is guaranteed after being hit or grabbed, and none of it is unfair. Sure, just adding i-frames to everything would make stuff easier, but isn't necessary. I actually like not always having them. It leads to new ways to think and play other than relying on them to save you.
I know of a few action games that have no i-frames on dodges and have seen them criticized for that when it's unnecessary. The dodges work without them.
if you get hit while in CONTROL then it's on the player, getting grabbed while in CONTROL is the players fault,
I think this is the root of the issue. You had control, and you lost it, and now you pay for it. I don't view this as a design issue at all.
EW you are capable of being hit and killed during recovery that's the issue, which means you can't reliably regain control as you can remain being hit/grabbed with little to no chance to gain control, if you never had recovery animations then you would be able to remain in control and then react and be hit of the players accord. Don't have recovery animations that don't allow you to recover its pointless.
Then avoid getting too close to groups. You know what they can do.
you typically fight groups of mobs so the more mobs the more chances to not be able to recover, and they attack constantly so groups you have little chance to survive. One mob can still stun lock you while in recovery.
I have never had a major issue with this. Sure, I've been comboed, but not often. I know what can happen if I take on groups and get too close to one of them. If I need a group taken down, I have bolts for that. I have a shotgun to get someone out of my face.
A use of Iframes can be called mercy invincibility, check it on Tv tropes to see what I mean, this is what I'm talking about they let you recover so you can't be stun locked constantly.
I already understand perfectly what you're talking about. I've been playing these types of games for years.
What do you have to say about rule of rose use of iframes?
That the game is the worst possible example due to how glitchy it is. Can you link me to that page?
I played RoR for a very long time and found some serious nonsense in the game's mechanics. I'd need to see what that page says, but if it's what I'm thinking, the game doesn't have actual i-frames at all, (being knocked down and having the enemies leave you alone is not what I mean) it is a glitch related to consecutive hits not connecting to due to collisions being some of the worst you'll ever see.
Can you see removing iframes from re4 as an issue?
Yeah, it would drop your capabilities in terms of melee dramatically. I wouldn't be wanting to use melee in a group at all. You could still get through the game, but it was built with those i-frames in mind.
That's what EW issue is, same situations but EW has no iframes and mobs don't stop attacking while recovering or being grabbed.
Yeah, if you added them it would solve those issues you're having. I'm not saying it wouldn't. I'm just saying I don't agree that it needs them.