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Resident Evil 4

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1Resident Evil 4 Empty Resident Evil 4 on Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:13 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Legendary Survival horror third-person shooter released in 2005. We all know the one.



I've started my 1st pistol only run, doing it on pro difficulty. Using costume 1(haven't worn it before), punisher, grenades, upgrades allowed, knife/melee allowed and for variety I'm going to get the mine thrower as I've never used it before. I've stopped before the big cheese boss, did both paths as usual, pretty fun so far, I've played this enough times so it's no issue.

The punisher's penetration is super useful, It makes up for its weak damage with its utility. It's why I'm using it for this run, it'll make a mockery of the shield guys.

2Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:21 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Beat big cheese no problem, he's super weak incendiary grenades and the knife for phase 1 owns him. Water room gave me some trouble but not much more than usual.

Oh I got the mine thrower it's super neat gun, looks like a scifi arm cannon or something, does massive damage and sticks to things, this weapons got setup potential, it fires a dart that stuns foes, even the novistadores who get killed with 2 shots, was perfect for dealing with them during the sewers. I stopped after that sewer section.

3Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:26 am

Birdman


Moderator
How's ammo for it though? Does more drop when you have it equipped?

4Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:47 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Ammo only seems to drop when you have it, I've not once seen ammo drop for it before as I've never used it. Ammo drops seem decent, I've got about 15 shots, it stacks up to 5 and ammo takes the same space as any other. You can only buy from the castle chapter onward, I got it as soon as i got past the last village section with the truck.

Also it's darts are projectile unlike the other guns which are hitscan so you have to take the shots delay to its destination into account. I haven't used it on bosses so I wonder if the dart stuns them, the detonation seems to be the same as a frag nades in terms of damage and blast radius.

5Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:02 am

Birdman


Moderator
Sounds like a nice idea for a challenge run. Mine thrower only.

6Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:32 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Haha, I might just do that, it's very situational, but the fact that its darts stick to whatever they hit, stuns a hit foe which can let you melee prompt them and explodes makes it super useful with proper set up. To think that you can stack up to 5 rounds and 10 magazine capacity max with each shot doing as much damage or more than a frag nade with upgrades is nuts, plus increased explosion radius upgrade too.

I've also used it a tiny bit to see its fully upgraded form before I starter this run, it gains homing mines for it's exclusive upgrade, it flies after the nearest foe(even around corners) really funny seeing it chase crows in the opening.



Look at this stylish shit, mine throwers got Knacktics(tm).

EDIT: oh yeh, you can buy a scope too, super useful for pinpoint shots.

7Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:27 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Stopped before verdugo boss, gonna reck his shit with the mine thrower, definitely the hardest boss in the whole game, none of the others give me trouble. Without the cryo tanks to stun him and the rocket launcher or knife exploits his defences are impregnable, he's so fast, hard hitting and is fought in such a claustrophobic area it's hard to get away from him. I've yet to beat him legit, as in with just knife, pistol, magnum and shotgun, I'll have to do it on NG+ with upgraded weapons.

8Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:53 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The Right Hand is a pretty fun boss to fight head on, though I generally just buy an RPG for him. He is fun to knife though and there are a lot of exploits like the door-exploit to use. All around good stuff!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

9Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:35 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
I love how the game gives you the option of insta killing or just running away from the boss, they knew he was a bitch so I appreciate the options.

Reminds me of The End(not the final boss that just hid codename) boss in mgs3, since you can kill that boss way before the actual fight or another way via setting your systems internal clock a week forward during the boss. I'll have to make a topic on mgs3, it's the one I WILL convince you to play sir Wink.

10Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:37 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Got all the way past Krauser, I had some trouble with the first island area, I was messing up a bunch with my positioning. U3 wasn't much of a threat, one dart stuns it when it explodes, then it borrows underground rinse repeat.

The area with the novistadores that leads into the tunnel with the big dumb pillars that squish you gave me some trouble. I activated the 2 buttons then ran past the bugs and used the mine thrower to kill the ones grouped up by the melted gate as they can't travel into that area, stupid bugs pathfinding won't let them.

Minethrower made th shutter door section a joke, 1 dart sticks to a goon, door closes, door opens and they all blow up. The explosion death animation always cracks me up, its like they freeze frame in a pose before they just vaporise into nothing.

11Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:09 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
Beat it. Saddler wasn't a threat, usual tactics of throw frag nade, knife, use barrels, use construction bars. Only had 2 mine shots left but each shot puts him in the prompt state.

Also what's the damage values of the prompt vs revolver?

12Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:21 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
You can do both, I believe you can do two Butterfly shots and then the prompt for maximum damage as the prompt is still active for a few frames even when his eye is already closing!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

13Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:56 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
I am just starting my first playthrough! I thought this topic may as well be revived rather than making a new one.

I've gone with the original Gamecube version - am I an idiot or is this game supposed to have black borders across the top and bottom of the screen? (I'm playing 4:3 so the black borders on the left and right were expected). I've only played a few minutes but it's pretty jarring playing the game in a small window.

14Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:01 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Yeah, that's arguably the one drawback of the GameCube version. The game was always meant to be played at a widescreen ratio but came out at a time when CRTs were still the norm in most countries, hence the forced letterboxed format.

Is there a way you can zoom in on your TV / monitor without distorting the picture? That's what I do these days.

If you really can't get used to it, the Wii version played with a GC controller is just as good and has native 16:9 resolution.

15Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:23 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
For convenience, I've ended up using the 360 controller on the PC version. Sorry purists! Sad (I've gone for the 30fps setting though). I'll be honest I, I immediately felt better about playing the game in widescreen.

I'm coming in to this with quite a lot of RE5 experience (although it's been years since I played it) and some RE6 experience. What melee moves are available in RE4? I remember you were able to melee downed enemies in RE5 and stun them for a melee by shooting them in the arm.

16Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:26 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Are you using the control scheme that lets you aim with RT and shoot with X, at least?

There are only two melee states in RE4: head stagger and knee stagger. Arm stagger and ground melee are RE5-exclusive.

17Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:19 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
I'll have to remember those stagger states...

Yes, I am using that control scheme - I knew I wouldn't be forgiven if I picked a different one!

18Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:31 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Ha! Well, you'll have to forgive us purists. This game has been so badly treated by Capcom and has aspects that are so widely misunderstood or undersold within the gaming community that we (I!) have grown rather protective of it over the years. :)

It's not uncommon for folks to bounce off of it these days, and I believe that all these half-assed ports are a big reason why. So I'm always trying to nudge newbies in the right direction at first.


Anyway, speaking of melee, another aspect worth mentioning is the knife. In RE5, it might as well not exist. But in RE4, it is SUPER important and a crucial part of the combat sandbox. Most basic enemies have very generous recovery frames after their attacks and are leaving themselves wide open for a quick knife stagger to the head or knee. Some enemies are extra sensitive to it, too.

It's definitely a high risk weapon, but it is surprisingly versatile and useful once you get used to the enemy animations and know how to recognize and make the best out of the combat's possibility spaces.

19Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:09 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank
Any normal enemies one on one you can just back up to avoid their attack, knife the head to stagger, kick and finish him off with the knife. 0 bullets and very fun. You can do the same with groups but it takes more skill. Honestly you don't have to worry about that much. On normal you get ton of health and ammo drops, just shoot guys in the head and kick em. This game is such a blast to replay with all of the secrets, enjoy.

20Resident Evil 4 Empty buying? selling? on Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:06 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
C-Rank
Doing the NA GameCube version, too atm. New Game Normal. Keeping rank maxed with 0 deaths and aiming for no more than 8 saves till finish. All shooting galleries. Last save just before The Red Right Hand (it comes off?!), expecting it to be the last castle-save. Really thinking that the Castle drags on too long.
The biggest letdown to me is the faux Krauser cutscene qte battle. That's not action. That's a thesis.

21Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:21 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Funnily enough, the Switch version actually has sort of Gamecube Controller support:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrwELExa1qA

EDIT: not liking the Krauser QTE? Heresy. I still remember seeing that fight in one of the two teasers at the "press start" menu, as a kid it facinated me since it was so mysterious. Here's the teaser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH9uz40lsZY
So mysterious. Loved that!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

22Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:36 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Doesn't the GC adapter/controller work with every Switch game? You just can't play games that require the left or right sticks clicks or ZL (or is it L? I always get them mixed up...)

23Resident Evil 4 Empty No thanks, "bro"! on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:41 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
C-Rank
Getting grabbed, I'll use either the palm to waggle out of it or both the tips of the index and the thumb. Never the thumb alone.
Professional mode taught me that.

Krauser qte: It's not that I don't like it. I loathe it and think it dates it by diminishing. I mean think of the proper JK  battle.



Last edited by Zenyn on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:48 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : warped)

24Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:45 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Some games are optimized for it, while with others you can be 'shit out of luck' basically. RE4 seems to be optimized for it, only the QTE's are borked in terms of icons.

> grabbed
I liked that getting grabbed from behind could actually be used to kill enemies safely, as it did zero damage to you and you could knock their heads off with it, even on Pro.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

25Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:08 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
The prompts are what make me think the game isn't optimised for it - I watched the video wondering why the player was prompted to press Y to melee/pick up items instead of A, but if you look at his control scheme at the beginning, Y and A are both mapped to the action button, so he can press either. I'm pretty sure games that are optimised for it (there aren't many) have the actual GC button prompts (green A button, red B button etc.)

I'm not sure that there's an example in that video of the prompts not matching the correct button. On the original GC controls, Z is Map and X is command Ashley, but in this video you can see he commands Ashley with Z. He also brings up his inventory with start instead of Y. The control scheme is basically the same as the one i'm currently using on 360, which is inspired by the original GC layout, but not the same.

26Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:20 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Good point! Still, was just curious if it would work. Would be a typical Capcom thing to just not support the controller at all.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

27Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:35 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
@Royta/Raeng wrote:Good point! Still, was just curious if it would work. Would be a typical Capcom thing to just not support the controller at all.

Oh it definitely would be a Capcom thing to do!

I might be wrong in saying this but I think Smash Bros is the only game properly optimised for GC controllers, displaying all of the correct prompts and such. Any other games will just recognise it as a generic 3rd party controller, I think.

That's on a game level, but on a system level it seems different. I quite often take my adapter to my friends to play Smash, and plugged in to my dock, the controllers show up as GC controllers on the controller sync menu. On my friends dock, they come up as a generic USB controller. The controllers work exactly the same for Smash regardless of which dock we play on, and seem equally as optimised (displaying the correct prompts and controller icons in-game). I wonder if the docks having different firmwares is the cause.

28Resident Evil 4 Empty you need not only money but also guts on Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:55 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
C-Rank
Picked it up where I described before. RPG for Right Hand (it does come off!). Smooth sailing beyond that. Pumped the one Dr. Salvador off the edge in the mines and lost the monies. Got both El Gigante in the next room as compensation. No further mistakes to speak of. Did every qte. Squashed Salazar. Changed disks. Got a chuckle ("Saddler you're small-time!"). Past the J.J. and laser mirrors. Further toward the complex entry and got tapped by a taser in the back while pumping one of the cronies. You're dead. I'm not mad. I did learn something. Watch your back.

29Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:03 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Talk of controllers aside, how's the run going so far Greg? Enjoying it :) ?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

30Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:44 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
Yeah Greg, gotta keep us posted on your thoughts on the game, we’re all going to relive our pasts through you. Ha!

31Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:19 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
I'm enjoying it so far. I've killed El Gigante a second time after you choose to take one of the paths after defending Ashley in the house with Luis. I must admit, I wasn't having an awful lot of fun to begin with, but it is growing on me as I get further in!

I'm using the Red9 pistol as my primary weapon at the moment, but I've got the standard Handgun and Punisher in my case. I know the Punisher has a bullet penetration mechanic, but is there any reason to keep the Handgun?

32Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:35 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Every weapon has its own advantages, the regular handgun for example has a cool critical hit bonus with its exclusive upgrade. But as a general rule, there's no need to carry more than one of a single weapon category at the same time. Inventory space is limited and they use the same ammo type anyway. If you're liking the Red9, you might as well get rid off all the other handguns for the time being.

33Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:40 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Good to know, thanks! I've read something about exclusive upgrades before but can't see anything in-game. Do you have to max the other upgrades out before it's available?

34Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:07 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
@Gregorinho wrote:Do you have to max the other upgrades out before it's available?

That's exactly it. Most exclusive upgrades are boosting one of the basic stats, and some add or enhance specific functions. Upgrade tiers are unlocked automatically over the course of the campaign.

35Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:34 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
What did you think of the Cabin scene or the first village part? I admit that, despite the game being still really gold, we're all massively nostalgic so it's refreshing to read a new opinion. What was helding back the fun factor at the beginning for you?

> pistols
All have their ups and downs, I prefer the Handgun and Blacktail myself for their exclusive uses. But mostly the Handgun since it looks so stylish and is present in all the cutscenes. Note that ammo-upgrades refill ammo completely. So if you have the cash you can for instance empty a gun, upgrade its ammo, use it until empty again and then sell the gun and rebuy it. Lots of fun stuff possible that way in terms of ammo management.

> exclusives
Each exclusive is available when fully upgraded, but should be noted that some are hard capped and cannot be accessed until you pass a certain point in the story. Each is really the 'defining' ability of that weapon.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

36Resident Evil 4 Empty ballistics! how rude!! on Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:22 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
C-Rank
Further. My next save was the reuniting with the ol' ball an' chain, aka Ashley Graham, the President's daughter, fyi. On 5 saves, will save one more. The 7th closing the round. Sticking to it.

Playing it, I don't think of the bosses as that great. You shoot, you keep your distance, you follow the prompt. The proper JK being the noteworthy alternation. A point 5 had to expand upon. And they created...

The Wesker battle!  pale

37Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:47 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Generally I'd say let's not care about spoilers, but since we have a pretty rare case of a player here who has never played the game before, and is doing so currently for the first time, let's keep spoilers in the spoiler-tabs.

Regarding bosses:

Personally I do like the bosses, in how they play out and what they allow in terms of creativity. El Gigante can be knifed, you can shoot him and use the dog as a distraction, but you can also just nuke him with grenades (or skip any boss with the RPG, which I found to be pretty novel). But it also has a lot of efficient tactics to it, such as optimizing the damage you deal to the plaga before activating the prompt.

Del Lago is a more simplistic boss, but he does use the game's core mechanics i.e. dodging attacks and shooting.

The later El Gigante is again pretty interesting, as you can fight him, use the rock for extra damage and stun, or just avoid him altogether. The big Chief himself is a more straight up fight, but enemy weaknesses to fire work too. There's a lot of little details that just really appeal to me in these bosses.

The weakest of the bunch is Salazar to me, just a damage sponge without any real noteworthy attacks. Saddler at least has the bars you can use smartly, while Krauser is this long combat sequence which is pretty entertaining, not to mention his hidden knife-weakness. Also liked Verdugo. U3 is 'okay', good intro but his later segmented fight is just circlestrafing. Not that great.

Which ones did you like and which ones didn't you?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

38Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:21 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
> Pistols

Didn't know that regarding ammo management, thanks! If you sell guns you have upgrades on, do you have to repurchase the upgrades if you buy the gun again? I didn't think about that before I sold my Handgun! I suppose if you don't need more than one weapon per class and they each have their own benefits it contributes to the replay value.


> "Fun Factor"

I think some of it was just adjusting to the game's mobility. I've been playing a few fast-paced action games recently where you fly all over the screen, so going to something more grounded took a little getting used to!

I'm more used to the combat now in terms of knowing how to put enemies in the stagger states. Even though I knew there wasn't a stagger state in this game for shooting enemies in the arm (thanks KSub!), I religiously spent the first 2 or 3 hours running over to every enemy after shooting them in the arm, only to get stabbed/grabbed/smacked for my troubles. They have a similar animation to the enemies in RE5, so playing so many hours of that game was a bad influence on me here! I think with a gameplay system like this your enjoyment grows as your skill does, so I'm gradually finding I'm having more and more fun as I keep playing.

I'm enjoying the "flow" of combat more now in the standard enemy encounters, but I'm feeling 50/50 on the bosses. I wasn't crazy about the El Gigante boss fight (I'm not a huge fan of "David vs Goliath" boss fights in most games if I'm honest) or the one against the giant fish monster, but I did enjoy the one in the barn against...the guy who's name I've forgotten...the one with the beard and the false eye. If I hadn't seen clips of the fight beforehand, the moment where he transforms would have been horrifyingly brilliant. I still haven't properly figured out how to avoid damage against bosses, so I'm sure my enjoyment will grow as I improve.

I've realised as I make my way through the game that this it does follow the Capcom action game formula, just with a more grounded and "realistic" protaganist. You're left to figure out enemy weaknesses and advanced tech for yourself, you use your currency to buy upgrades and items at the shop, you get a performance evaluation at the end of each chapter (although unless I missed it, you dont get a rank in this game, do you?). Thinking about the game in this way has eased me in to it a little more, I think.

I'm also kind of surprised to say that this game, in some ways, is not really a horror game at all. It's hard to describe - when you think about the moment in the village where the chainsaw guy screams as he flails at you, with the music playing behind it and the other villagers stumbling around shouting at you (I know they speak spanish, but it's assumed your average player won't understand them) - that's obviously horror. But on the other side of the coin, Leon comes out with these whacky one liners, flips out of buildings and suplexes his enemies...he's an action hero! The way his character is presented here isn't a million miles away from DMC's Dante - much less supernatural, but the humour and flair seems to be there. The fact we all know about the relationship between RE4 and DMC might influence my thoughts, but once you've played them I think it's really quite apparent that they both stemmed from the same project.


> What did you think?

By Cabin scene do you mean the first time you meet an enemy or the one I mentioned earlier where you defend Ashley with Luis? As for the village, it's a great opener. You get a couple of little encounters before it to give you an idea of how the combat works, and then Shinji Mikami says "okay, now try not to die". I enjoyed the set piece that forms if you decide to enter the house - it sets up a scenario where you're genuinely thinking "how am I gonna get myself out of this one". Each of the villagers contribute to your overall experience in this scene, but the chainsaw villager really makes it. I sometimes feel the camera is a little too close to Leon and becomes a hindrance, but it's perfect in a horror context. You might turn round and run round the corner to reload, and you don't know how close your enemies are to catching you up...until they start screaming at you!


> Some general mechanics comments

I fully respect how these mechanics are perfectly suited for a horror game, but they can sometimes feel a little too restrictive (even though that's the point). Leon takes up so much of the screen that enemies can get lost in front of him. I don't know if it was an issue on the original GC release, but the handling of the Rifle feels...off, especially compared to the other weapons that generally handle pretty well. I expected Ashley to be a complete nuisance to babysit, but her programming does a pretty good job of keeping her out of your way. I like how, if she's behind you, she will basically magnetise herself to your back when you aim in, so you can freely turn and shoot without worrying about hitting her. I also like how she's fairly quick to react to you aiming your gun or knife at her and ducks out of the way - I've saved her from a couple of bad guys like this and it makes you feel like you've created some kind of cool action choreography, but really you haven't really had to do any more than usual. I watched a YouTube video yesterday and saw a clip of somebody using the knife to parry the throwing axes - I'd genuinely have never thought of trying that. I knew you could shoot them out of the air, but in Capcom fashion it's cool that they put these sorts of little details in.


> Spoilers

I do appreciate you guys trying to shield me from spoilers but don't worry if you forget - over the years I've probably seen gameplay of every boss fight, so those parts are the least surprising for me!

39Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:29 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> Pistols
Yeah if you sell a weapon, its upgrades reset. So you can upgrade its ammo all over again if you wish for a ton of free ammo rounds. This can lead to some trecks back to the Merchant, but it's nice that the gameplay option is there.

> ranking
It's open ended, just like Vanquish it gives you some data for you to evaluate how you did.

> bosses
The El Gigante fights are interesting when you start to tinker with optimized kills and using the knife prompt at the absolutely last frame for maximum damage. The second one can be skipped, which is pretty fun to try.

> horror
Always prefered to call it "tension horror" in this game, since you're under such pressure and enemies are scary not due to the horror, but what they can do to you. They run and hunt you down. Should be stated that the game was also dropdead gorgeous and probably the most realistic looking game out at the time of release, which helped this even more.

> cabin scene
Meant the defence mission with Luis yeah!

> Chainsaw
Fun tibit, there's actually two in the area that you can spawn. One is hidden away, it's a neat touch.

> Ashley
Also fun thing being that, when she's standing behind you, she will sometimes cheer you on when you're killing. Lots of neat little touches like that.

> Camera
I can understand that. Using the c-stick to turn while walking helps, but they mastered the over-the-shoulder camera in games since.

> Plagas
What do you think of those elements, where their heads burst? Note that it's a disproved myth that headshots trigger them, each time you enter a room it is pre-defined which ones pop a plaga (it is random per load).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

40Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:09 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
RE4 talk! My element.

My boss tier list (not counting sub-bosses):

Krauser in the Sand Fortress is one of my all-time favorite boss fights. I love the level layout, I love the music, I love the bite-sized optional initial fights, and I absolutely adore his hidden sensitivity to knife attacks. Rarely do you see such a simple yet effective risk vs. reward mechanic.

Verdugo - Super tense and threatening, love the music, love the dodging QTEs. My only issue is how you're kinda forced to use the liquid nitrogen tanks if you want to fight him properly, which can be a bit limiting. And yes, I know there is always the door knife trick if you have an extra week to spare. No thanks.

Mendez - Tough but perfectly doable, great environment, hidden fire sensitivity for that extra bit of strategic oomph.

Salazar - Point taken, he doesn't exactly require the most mobile strategy. But I think he makes up for it with the cool shooting elements and overall spectacle. I also love his fake opening maw attack that forces you to get out the way QUICK.

El Gigante (1st Fight) - He can be a bit of a bullet sponge at times, but the environment here is really well-designed so as to provide enough opportunities to attack and dodge him safely. Lot of fun overall. Plus, the dog!

Saddler - Not sure why he's getting so much hate. He's basic but perfectly serviceable as the game's final boss. I love the multitude of ways he can be stunned and the fact that you don't HAVE to use the special Rocket Launcher to finish him off if you prefer to hold on to it.

U-3 - Love the look and feel of this clown, although he's known to land cheap hits in the container section. I prefer the final section, despite him being ever so slightly too aggressive at times.

Del Lago - Surprisingly substantial for a setpiece fight, but a bit repetitive overall. Nice presentation.

El Gigante (Canyon) - I'm not a fan of the Gigante re-runs, and those are probably the only bosses in the game I could do without. This one can be a bit frustrating to fight, almost like the devs intended for you to run away from him. Almost impossible to dodge him properly in that narrow environment without you or Ashley taking damage unless you're willing to waste all of your grenades. A bit cheap, imo.

Los Dos Gigantes - Same as the canyon fight while being mandatory. Almost impossible to get one in an advantageous position without the other one already being in your face. A lot of circle-strafing ensues and the environment is meh. The trap door trick is kinda cool, though.


@Gregorinho wrote:I'm also kind of surprised to say that this game, in some ways, is not really a horror game at all.

Yes mate, it really isn't. Don't let the brand name mislead you. It's an atmospheric action game with a very methodical combat loop. But the goal of the game is never to scare or terrify you. You're always in complete control of every gameplay segment and everything is centered around the combat. So it's definitely closer to DMC than to SH2 in that regard.

About the point of "mechanics are too restrictive", think of it this way: Street Fighter 2 is restrictive in that it limits the playing field to only two out of three dimensional axes. Classic Mega Man is restrictive in that it doesn't allow you to shoot at an angle. But the goal of these games is always to adapt to all of these restrictions, because their entire systems are constructed around them. Resident Evil 4 is no different in that regard, considering how every single enemy has been carefully designed around Leon's movement system. There is a lot going on under the hood and the deeper you'll get into this, the more you'll like it.

The First Rule of RE4: You can bait almost every attack by moving within and out of an enemy's perimeter and safely attacking them during their recovery phase.


PS: I wouldn't recommend buying and selling the same weapon over and over again to exploit the ammo capacity refill, personally. It's tedious as hell, there is more than enough ammo in the game and the upgrades are actually very useful. You're better off picking a few favorites and sticking with them all the way through in my opinion. The Red9 is a great start.

PPS: As far as sub-genre names go, I'm a big fan of "Survival Action" for this one. I just can't see it as "Horror" in any way.

41Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:00 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Yeah I should've maybe been a tad clearer on the ammo management, reselling weapons for more ammo is more if you're obsessive or have time to spare, it is far from necessary. In the vain of classic Gamefaqs discussion I do hereby breathe new life in the eternal war between Blacktail and Red9 and say you should go for the Blacktail instead Razz

Seriously, those discussions were a guaranteed 500-post discussion, if not through numerous topics. Shame most of them got deleted thanks to Gamefaqs older policy.

Spoiler:
Regarding Verdugo, you can still fight him head on without the tanks, he just takes a lot of bonus damage without it. For the dual Gigante fight, they are pretty fun to fight using the Mine Thrower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXWSIo0J8Uk
He also has a great 2 cylinder kill for Verdugo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VloZhd_v_hk

Regarding the Gigante fight after the Cabin, I had a OHKO loop on him at one point that didn't cost a lot. I think I shot the rock, use a frag, then 3 handgun bullets, 2 sniper rounds and a knife to his plaga iirc. I posted the strat nearly 20 years ago on Gamefaqs but that topic is long gone.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

42Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:11 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
> El Gigante

Which knife prompt? I dont remember one...uh oh, have I been playing the game wrong? Neutral

> Cabin Scene

I thought it was great! Similar in ways to the Village encounter, but inverted - rather than having an open area to navigate around, your boxed in and forced to be more aggressive. Luis loved dropping exactly what items I needed - thanks dynamic difficulty!

> Chainsaw

I think I did trigger both, actually - am I right in saying one spawns if you enter the house and the other is stood by the door on the opposite side from where you enter? I assume the one by the door despawns if you survive the encounter to the point where the bell rings and everybody leaves.

> Ashley

I haven't heard her cheering me on yet, but she does shout for help a lot! It's quite useful though, as you can't always play in a way wher you can keep her on-screen.

> Plagas

They have more health (and range) than I assumed they would. Is there an optimal way to deal with them? I think I read that using the suplex is guaranteed not to trigger the plagas - is that true?

> Restrictive mechanics

Great point on SF2/MM. "Restrictive" mechanics are fine provided the gameplay is built around them, I totally agree. I remember when RE5 came out and my friends and I must have been in our early teens, some of them struggled to get in to the game because they thought it was bad that you couldn't move and shoot at the same time. Even thought I wasn't really thinking game mechanics back then, I knew straight away that it was good game design because it made your decision to run or stand and fight more important - you couldn't do both.

> Baiting attacks

I picked up on this from watching a few Professional Mode playthroughs, so I've been trying to get better at this. One thing I'm struggling with though is when enemies do the animation where they lunge forward to grab you - the enemies move forward continuously, so you don't have enough time to backpedal out of range. What triggers this grab? Is it only enemies without weapons who do it? Do they try it if you're considered "out of range"?

43Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:02 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
@Royta/Raeng wrote:In the vain of classic Gamefaqs discussion I do hereby breathe new life in the eternal war between Blacktail and Red9 and say you should go for the Blacktail instead Razz

The Red9 packs as much raw firepower as the default shotgun when fully upgraded, plus it looks sophisticated as hell which makes it the perfect companion piece to the GOAT BAR. And it has an attachable stock! So you can take that puny ammo-wasting TMP-wannabe peashooter of yours and shov[REDACTED]. Razz

Blacktail stanning in 2020. To an impressionable new player no less. Some people have no shame.


@Gregorinho wrote:Which knife prompt? I dont remember one...uh oh, have I been playing the game wrong?

When he's down on his knees with the plaga protruding out of his back, you can activate a knife QTE. Perhaps you missed the button prompt by being too far away?

Resident Evil 4 LZz_IL

It's not the end of the world if you missed out on it, it just takes a bit more ammo doing it the other way. Razz


@Gregorinho wrote:"Restrictive" mechanics are fine provided the gameplay is built around them, I totally agree. I remember when RE5 came out and my friends and I must have been in our early teens, some of them struggled to get in to the game because they thought it was bad that you couldn't move and shoot at the same time. Even thought I wasn't really thinking game mechanics back then, I knew straight away that it was good game design because it made your decision to run or stand and fight more important - you couldn't do both.

Precisely. And RE4 is significantly better designed than RE5 in that regard. There are plenty of enemies in RE5 that contradict the game's core design ethos in this way, like the machine gun wielding soldiers and hyper-aggressive plaga varieties. But RE4 is polished to a mirror sheen (Hi, Inf!). Everything in this game has been designed around Leon's so-called limitations. It takes a while to brush off the muscle memory of modern dual analogue games, but meet it halfway and you'll be rewarded aplenty.

Let me put this another way: Do you think that the game is somehow "missing" a jump button? Not really, right? Because there would be absolutely no need for it in the context of the game's combat. Strafing and mobile shooting are the exact same.


@Gregorinho wrote:One thing I'm struggling with though is when enemies do the animation where they lunge forward to grab you - the enemies move forward continuously, so you don't have enough time to backpedal out of range. What triggers this grab? Is it only enemies without weapons who do it? Do they try it if you're considered "out of range"?

Good question.

Only empty-handed basic enemies (Ganados, Cultists, Soldiers) do this, correct. It triggers when you're a few meters away, otherwise they'll do their short-range grab nudge instead.

They don't try it if you're out of range, no. As a general rule, enemies in this game only ever attack if they have a chance of actually hitting you, with some rare exceptions.

They actually don't move forward indefinitely, they stop after they reach a certain distance. But it does take a while, which often takes new players by surprise.

So just to be clear: You CAN sometimes dodge it by simply walking backwards if you do it as soon as possible, but it also depends on their starting position, so I wouldn't recommend it at first. You'll learn when it is possible and when it isn't after a while.

Another thing to keep in mind: The grab DOES NOT HOME IN on you. They lunge straight ahead and can't turn mid-attack. Which means that if you're at a certain distance and they attack you from the side, you can rather easily step out of their way.

Anyway, the best way to deal with that is to simply shoot them. A single bullet should stagger them when they're in that state. "Aim caRrRefully!"


PS: Another cool trick worth learning early on is C-turning. Pan the camera either left or right and tap RT, which will instantly turn you in that direction without the usual lengthy animation. VERY useful if you need to turn around quickly in certain situations.

44Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:13 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
It’s funny reading all of this, games like this have so much to them that you don’t notice when you’ve played them enough, everything regarding the enemies’ animations, attacks, staggers, etc. probably aren’t noticed by a lot of players who became familiar with the game early on.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned(theres a lot to read through and I haven’t had a lot of time to post), but there’s a sort of buffer between you and the enemy; enemies can run at you at a distance but when they get to a certain points they’ll start walking to allow you time to stagger them or get away(shooting an enemy in the leg while they’re running will make them fall over).

And yes, the grab doesn’t home in, this is not a RE2make situation. Most grabs and attacks can be dodged by just backing up. Make sure to shoot those projectiles out of the air too.

Regarding the plagas: a flash grenade will kill them instantly. I recommend saving them on a first playthrough for when you’re cornered by them.

45Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:24 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Completely forgot to answer this!

@Gregorinho wrote:
Plagas have more health (and range) than I assumed they would. Is there an optimal way to deal with them? I think I read that using the suplex is guaranteed not to trigger the plagas - is that true?

The FLASH grenade instantly kills all plaga variations, very useful to carry a few around with you! As a general rule, toss them as soon as you have two or more on screen at the same time.

If you don't have any flash on hand, mutated ganados can't run any more, so take your distance and use your handgun / sniper rifle to deal with them safely if possible.

The suplex can cause an instant kill critical headshot that doesn't trigger a plaga, that is correct. But the critical isn't guaranteed either, so it's not a be-all and end-all strategy.


FLASH GRENADES

46Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:34 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The Blacktail has a far bigger damage per second output than most other weapons in the game thanks to its high firerate, gives you that slick professional FBI look and feel and laughs at your puny attempts to conserve ammo. So grab that relic of a by-gone age and enjoy Ashley's overtime if it were a weapon Razz

Ah man. The memories.

(ironic since I always prefered the Handgun and Punisher. Still, that's why I love the game so much, each weapon version has something on offer. Except the shotties. Striker for life)(Also version differences were nuts, I remember the BAR was so much better in the PAL version iirc, nearly double damage.)

> Cabin
Just such a great and tense encounter, loved how little things like shoving closets were added into the game. Really gave it that horde feeling. One of my favourite scenes. Try shooting Luis a few times next time for a fun extra.

> dynamic difficulty
Note that the Dynamic Difficulty is exclusive to Normal Mode. Easy and Professional are 'static'.

> Chainsaw
Yeah that's the one! There's one that arrives when you enter the house, and another is waiting by the gate. Both drop some early items to sell which is fantastic.

> Suplex plaga

Incorrect. As noted, a plaga's pop is determined on loading a room and a few enemies are preprogrammed to always have one appear. A suplex will just see it happen regardless. Note that some weapons by-pass the Plaga spawn like the RPG. I think regular grenades also bypass it now that I think about it, but I'm not sure now. @Ksub, any notes?

The optimal way is to use the game's lore. They only appear at night. This would mean that they are weak to...? Wink

> every enemy built around Leon
I still feel that J.J. at times didn't really fit, but in that sense it was exactly the reason why I liked him so much since he was just such a different enemy.

> lunge grab
One thing that's important, you can always do a quick turn. If enemies grab you from behind you don't take damage but instead take bonus damage from other enemies that attack you while grabbed. The nice thing about this is that if you wiggle away free fast enough you'll OHKO the grabber. You can also dodge them by running to their side, shooting them or knifing their head (extremely hard, don't recommend it, sometimes they tank it iirc).

> running enemies buffer
Thought that was only on Normal though. On Professional they can run all the way up to you iirc.

Fuck me I really want to play the game again now haha!

EDIT:
"The suplex can cause an instant kill critical headshot that doesn't trigger a plaga, that is correct. But the critical isn't guaranteed either, so it's not a be-all and end-all strategy."
That's not true iirc. An Critical Headshot does not influence plagapops, negative or positive. I remember it was used as both an argument against and in favour to the Handgun Exclusive, but was proven a few times to just be false. A Critical headshot can still trigger a plaga. Plaga's do count as 'heads' though and can be OHKO'd by a critical headshot afterwards.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

47Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:57 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Leaked footage of RE4R's combat sequence showcasing both Blacktail and Red9 action in short succession:
Spoiler:

Exclusive footage of Roy using his trusted Blacktail to dispatch the Bella sisters (with the HD texture pack):
Spoiler:

Razz


@Royta/Raeng wrote:Note that some weapons by-pass the Plaga spawn like the RPG. I think regular grenades also bypass it now that I think about it, but I'm not sure now. @Ksub, any notes?

There are several ways to bypass even scripted plagas. Lethal explosions of any type (Hand grenades, Rocket Launchers, barrels), but also lethal fire damage (like Incendiary grenades and lamps, although most enemies will need to be weakened first before they can die from it). Hunks' Neckbreaker and Krauser's Arm Lunge also work. Not sure about Wesker's melee moves right now, will have to experiment.

Also, enemies wearing helmets will never spawn plagas.


@Royta/Raeng wrote:An Critical Headshot does not influence plagapops, negative or positive. I remember it was used as both an argument against and in favour to the Handgun Exclusive, but was proven a few times to just be false. A Critical headshot can still trigger a plaga.

You're definitely correct that regular crits can still trigger plagas. But I was under the impression that Handgun exclusive crits and suplex crits were special OHKO and guaranteed no-plaga? It's been a while since I checked, however. Maybe I'm wrong about the suplex ones.



Last edited by KSubzero1000 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

48Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:04 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
> El Gigante

Wow - I stayed as far away from him as possible, so that's exactly why I didn't see the prompt! Razz What's even more impressive is that I've fought this boss TWICE without noticing it. I was getting thrown around by him, so I thought it was safest to stay back and snipe his weakpoint.

> Grabs/C-Turning

I didn't mean to imply that the enemies will move foward forever - what I should have said is they can move forward at a greater speed than I can move backwards, and I found that the move was triggering at a range were I couldn't escape by walking backwards (unlike the axe/pitchfork swings). It might have been the case that I moved within their range too much and created a situation for myself that was inescapable. So, when you say a single bullet should stagger them in this state, do you mean that it will put them in a state where you can follow up with a melee attack?

Didn't know about C-Turning! Sounds like it will be very useful so I'm glad you mentioned it! Could you do this in RE5 too..? Mad

> Plagas

I'll make sure to keep some Flashes handy. Thanks for the tips guys!

> Shooting Luis

I think I know the extra you're talking about - I've seen that scene a few times on YouTube, but didn't realise it was triggered in the cabin. I always assumed it was a failed QTE at some point in the story (which also made me very suspicious of Luis!). I love it when devs bother to put it in little extras like this!

49Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:10 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
@Gregorinho wrote:Didn't know about C-Turning! Sounds like it will be very useful so I'm glad you mentioned it! Could you do this in RE5 too..?

Yep! :)


@Gregorinho wrote:So, when you say a single bullet should stagger them in this state, do you mean that it will put them in a state where you can follow up with a melee attack?

Well if you hit them in the head, sure. But if you hit them anywhere else it will cancel their attack at the very least.

It's possible that you might need to use more than one bullet with some of the weaker weapons like the base level handgun. Will experiment a bit and report back. I know the game likes to give some enemy attacks hidden super armor properties sometimes.

50Resident Evil 4 Empty Re: Resident Evil 4 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:18 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Resorting to memes immediately, alas, that is the level of intellectual discussion one can expect from a Red9 user Razz

> plaga bypass
Yeah I knew there was something with explosives, thanks for the addendum. Wasn't sure about fire but this confirms it. Don't think Wesker's melee moves negate plaga-pops either, but my memory is drawing a blank to them happening to him. Hm.

> Exclusive Crits
I can confirm that the handgun from experience that at least the Handgun's exclusive does still spawn plagas. One bug in its exclusive though is that it can simply happen from any shot, doesn't need to be a headshot. The chance is very low, but I've had it happen in my PAL version. It looks really weird but you basically do a body shot, the head explodes and they die. Very weird.
My memory is a bit janky in regards to plagas popping from Suplexes. But I think it could happen. But, when in doubt, Youtube it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APZF_SefAFM

This red enemy is supposed to spawn a plaga, always, but suplexing him doesn't trigger it as shown in the video. So I think we can determine you were right, suplex stops a plaga from appearing!
Also, note the weapon he is using. Fantastic player.

> weakpoint Gigante
Fun fact, on the Wii version that prompt was tied to waggling the wii-mote and by shaking rapidly you could actually OHKO him.

> Flashbang
ALso kills crows in a single flash, great for dealing with crows (some have a ton of goodies). There's a huge nest of them at the start of the area where you fight Gigante later-on, just pop a flash and fork in the cash. One of them even drops a Flash. Delightful. One crow just after the game's first typewriter holds a Frag. A few later-on are holding gold bars.

> Luis
The game is filled to the brim with really varied death-animations. Some of them are still gruwesome and unique to this day imo.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

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