Chaos Legion

Interesting.

All I know is I'd never go over the kill counts (intentionally) and focused on improving time and boss time.

I made a quick list of counters but some I might need to test again. There are a few I can't remember clearly and I don't want to be putting up faulty info.

>go over the kill count intentionally
Me neither, I killed 50+ more in Stage 4 because I wanted to fill the Soul meter to the max while also killing the fast spikes in the center of the stage until I fulfilled the kill count requirement. I met the kill count requirement earlier than the Soul meter getting full, so I just kept killing more until that happened.

As a matter of fact, in my new Hard playthrough, I tried getting an AAA+ rank in Stage 2, and stopped until I met the Mark monster requirement, which also happened to fullfil the kill count requirement (would have stopped earlier if not for the Mark monster requirement, since there are more enemies to kill *right before the boss*). This wasn't an easy task, especially for the HP requirement (have to kill a lot of enemies in a small space *again, right before the boss*, and there's one of those big enemies in it).

>list of counters
I have three questions, though I'm sure I know the answer to one of them.

1. Spiders can only be countered when they're doing a jumping attack, right?

2. Is there a safe way to counter those big enemies (the ones that get stunned when you do an air slash *and have enough Attack Power to do so*)? I can jump in time somewhat consistently in response to its movements, but if it decides to do the attack where he slams the ground with both hands, there's not enough time to land and dodge roll this. Or at least, not consistently.

3. I might be going crazy, but I could've sworn you could counter the jumping attack from rollers (the one where they attempt to pin you down to the ground). But I've never been able to counter them this way again.

-----------------------------------------------

Is it possible to get an AAA+ rank on Stage 3 (Side A) when starting out? I was trying to get this to see if I could get to use Blasphemy earlier (by having Guilt earn just enough EXP to upgrade Enchant to Lv 4, so I'm aiming for these to get as much EXP as possible), but it seems they want me to kill a few of the big guys to fullfil the Mark Monster requirement, and killing those guys takes a significant amount of time, so much that I don't even come close to getting an AA+ in Stage Clear.

I made a save in the event that you say yes, but I opted to just counter hit the majority of enemies. And on that note, it seems the amount of EXP you get from the weaker counter hit (via the lock-on thing) is the same as a regular counter, even if the latter is significantly stronger than the former.

>Spiders can only be countered when they're doing a jumping attack, right?
Yes, not counting the lock-on counter.

>Is there a safe way to counter those big enemies
Being pro like me.

>attack where he slams the ground with both hands, there's not enough time to land and dodge roll this.
If you see it coming you can strafe around it (if locked on) pretty easily and counter.

I don't remember if this is a move that won't be stopped if you don't have attack power, .

>counter the jumping attack from rollers
You can but it must be right before than land on you, otherwise you just knock them out of the air.

>Is it possible to get an AAA+ rank on Stage 3 (Side A) when starting out?
I think you can but it depends on how well you did in Stage 2. Don't remember the details.

>kill a few of the big guys
How are you dealing with them?

>counter hit (via the lock-on thing) is the same as a regular counter
What about outright killing them? Metal zombies give 48000 per Ground Zero counter kill.

>Yes, not counting the lock-on counter.
Thought so.

>being pro like you
More practice sessions are in order then.

>If you see it coming you can strafe around it (if locked on) pretty easily and counter.
I jump semi pre-emptively regardless of what it does, since I'm not good enough to tell whether he'd do a fast swipe or that slower attack. But in doing so, I'm vulnerable to the latter, since the attack will connect the moment when I land.

One more thing I need to practice is knowing the exact moment (determined by distance) I need to use Ground Zero when he's using the charge attack for a powerful counter.

>I don't remember if this is a move that won't be stopped if you don't have attack power
Will have to check.

>You can but it must be right before than land on you, otherwise you just knock them out of the air.
I see. I also learnt something else. The rollers from Stage 6 seem to have a much bigger window for this kind of counter, I've even done so a moment after they left the ground. This explains why I suddenly felt like I could no longer counter them this way as easily as I could.

However... the rollers from the third scenario (the one where there's a big green guy, spikes, and cannons) are not like this. Even after some time has passed after they leave the ground, you just knock them out of the air with a normal hit, like the rollers from earlier stages. And even more bizarrely, the rollers accompanying the transparent enemies (acting as the stage's bosses) CAN be countered, again, at pretty much any point during their airborne period.

>I think you can but it depends on how well you did in Stage 2.
What? Your performance in one Stage affects the requirements of another? It isn't fixed?

>How are you dealing with them?
The standard way. Summon Guilt, un-summon when the big guy is about to attack, repeat.

>What about outright killing them?
With a normal kill instead of a counter hit? A Metal Zombie gives you 12.000EXP. A Legion gets 24.000EXP. Ground Zero counter and the lock-on counter both get 48.000EXP.

Which lines up with what one of the tutorials taught us. x1 for normal kills, x2 for Legion kills, and x4 for counter hits.

Also, for Blasphemy's Assist, it varies. If they die from the explosion, you get 24.000EXP, regardless if it's a counter or not. However, if they die from Sieg's kick, you get 48.000EXP if it's a counter, 12.000EXP otherwise (or 24.000 if the explosion is what kills them).

Oh, and I found someone else who bought CL Day 1:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/562548-viewtiful-joe/78212507/978872278

>I've even done so a moment after they left the ground
That's one of the things I can't remember clearly.

>again, at pretty much any point during their airborne period
I'll have to check this.

>What? Your performance in one Stage affects the requirements of another? It isn't fixed?
I mean like how much exp you got possible allowing you to buy another Legion unit or something.

>A Metal Zombie gives you 12.000EXP. A Legion gets 24.000EXP. Ground Zero counter and the lock-on counter both get 48.000EXP.
I was just wondering if all counters gave the same amount of exp.

>someone who bought CL day one
I know that guy. Pretty sure it was him who said DMC1 has more depth than CL.

Likes the game but doesn't know much mechanically.

So I beat the tree boss who gave me PTSD as a child lol still an absolute nightmare but ngl I had fun with the battle, unlocked claw legion. I really hate the fact that your moves are locked behind legions 'till you upgrade to enchant Level 4 but it is what it is. I guess I'll have to wait to stage 9 to get level select so I can do side b missions for those spiritual gems? Or is there a faster way to get enchant Level 4?

4 on Side A, 3 on Side B I think.

Side B is after stage 12.

>faster way
To get the gems or level 4? Spiritual gems are the only way to unlock level 4.

>check this
Let me know if it's not an emulator thing.

>I mean like how much exp you got possible allowing you to buy another Legion unit or something.
Oh, then yeah. If you go for maximum kills while countering most of what you encounter, you'll definitely have more than enough to buy 1-2 more upgrades (could be more if you count different categories) compared to just killing what is necessary to clear a Stage. I was able to get enough EXP for Guilt by Stage 6, so I was able to use Blasphemy much earlier.

>I was just wondering if all counters gave the same amount of exp.
I see. Then yeah, they do.

>Pretty sure it was him who said DMC1 has more depth than CL.
That... sounds like something he'd say. From what I've observed, he's definitely a huge fan of DMC1.

I had a very important question to ask, and I forgot. How frustrating.

Oh well. I'm currently at Stage 11 on my second Hard playthrough. I've been wondering if, by chance, Arrogance could remove a good chunk out of Victor's HP when he does the shockwave attack. But that probably only works for his Stage 11 version, since he can use that attack while close to the ground (need to have him be close to the stairs), unlike the final stage version.

>same exp
Still better to GZ them to send them flying into others in addition to one shotting otherwise they'll overwhelm you.

>Arrogance vs Victor
Tried it before. You're right about his height.
Don't remember if it does as much as Perfect Thanatos.

An idea just came to me that requires deep consideration. I'll need to test something. Will get back to you.

Birdman wrote:4 on Side A, 3 on Side B I think.

Side B is after stage 12.

>faster way
To get the gems or level 4? Spiritual gems are the only way to unlock level 4.

Yeah I meant faster way to get the spiritual gems

They're only unlocked by beating certain stages, so the faster way is to just go after the stages that have them (and do well in the stage, I suppose).

>Still better to GZ them to send them flying into others in addition to one shotting otherwise they'll overwhelm you.
True.

>Don't remember if it does as much as Perfect Thanatos.
I assume both had max stats. In that case, Thanatos would still win out, if only because you could get in a few counter hits yourself to speed things up. Not to mention that you don't to absorb damage prior.

>idea
Looking forward to see what it's about.

I also did a small test myself:



Relevant stats:

- Sieg's Attack Power: 225 (MAX is 500).
- Flawed's Enchant was never leveled up, so the jump is at its base level.
- Blasphemy's Assist Level is 4.
- Malice's Force Level is 3, and Attack's is 7.

>fast way you get gems
No there's only the one way of beating the stages that have them.

>damage comparison
Malice wins? Interesting.

Yeah, but further testing reveals it's pretty inconsistent. I wanted to see the difference in power between Lv 7 and Lv 8 (I have the EXP for it, but wanted to reserve it for the Force upgrade *which I'm not sure if I'll need*), sometimes I deal less damage than the above video, sometimes I deal even less damage than 3x Blasphemy, and very rarely I can manage to remove 2 full health bars. I've been trying different angles, positions (Sieg's and the crosshair), etc. but I haven't managed to find a consistent way to deal maximum damage. Some shots seemingly clip through Victor, or barely miss (if I move the crosshair so that one of the shots that's missing can hit, some other shot *or shots* will miss).

I was wondering if it's a case of the game buffering damage intake (a shot landing on the very next frame won't register, it has to be every other frame or so), but that kind of falls apart when you consider that all shots via Force attacks land. Or maybe it's because Victor's hurtbox is small.

Which means that the Force upgrade may or may not make a difference.

>clip through
Same happens with Perfect's assist. When you try to hit things being hit by the lasers you'll pass through them.

I'm having issues against Siela. Not sure how I did it last time, but I don't recall facing so much trouble against her. Though not sure if it's because I don't have a double jump this time (in part it's because I want to get some practice on how to avoid that attack without double jump).

What do you do if she does the laser rain attack while a bunch of mobs are still alive? Jumping seemingly doesn't work, so dodge roll seems to be the way, but I can't quite do it with all the ranged enemies attacking me (plus the robot).

Victor and Azrail aren't issues (moreso the former), so Siela is pretty much the only major problem I have (again, not sure how I did it on my first Hard playthrough).

Also, on an entirely different matter, have you ever looked into Battle Network? I feel it's something you could appreciate. Maybe not the randomness of your offenses coming at different times, but the statuses, hazards, obstacles and their interactions with other offenses (weaponizing them or making them stronger), etc.

>avoiding lasers
Run around her in a circle. As long as you don't stop they can't catch up. Use the markings on the ground as a track.

With enemies I'm not sure. Something might clip you and then you're toast. When ranged enemies shoot it's only at your last position. They can't track you so the only way to run into a projectile in this case would be if you happened to be running toward them which is possible as you go around. Or if they're directly behind you. Then again there could be a stray shot here and there that you could run into since you'll be going in a circle. I don't recall having too much trouble.

Golems could be bad if you run into one or if they dash.

>Battle Network
Yes I've looked into it but don't like what I saw.

>run around
I meant the lasers coming from above (telegraph is when you see red circles on the floor). This is when enemies can be around during this attack.

Though in general, it sounds like I need much more practice.

>didn't like what you saw
Hmm, I see. Care to give an example?

I saw this guy's video:



Seems like he uses Guilt when Siela is floating around doing nothing, which apparently skips the mob summoning phase. This is extremely huge for me. I wonder if there are other hidden things you can do with bosses or even enemies.

However, in the video, you could see him dealing more damage than what should have been possible (most notably Blasphemy's Assist against Azrail). This is probably a PC version quirk, but since it's Azrail, it doesn't matter much (he's not what I have issues with).

>above lasers
Dodge roll but do it from between the lasers on the edges of the red circles. Forward roll is best I think. Otherwise you roll into the main beam.

>skip summoning
If you do enough damage, yes.

>PC version
It is.

>didn't like
Don't remember exactly but I read about how it worked and didn't like it.

>Dodge roll but do it from between the lasers on the edges of the red circles.
Yes, I learned about this (even with double jump) the hard way. The only problem I have with this attack is if any mob is around.

>Forward roll is best I think.
From my experiences, it's the only thing that works when you don't have a double jump. Maybe one of the Assists that provide better i-frames, but I doubt you'd want to dedicate a Legion slot just for this, when dodge roll works well enough (execution isn't that tight).

>If you do enough damage, yes.
Yes, I see you're right. Couldn't be hitcount or else Malice would be able to do the trick. Tested things a bit, and I'm able to skip the mob phase half the time with Force Lv 4 and Attack at Lv 8. Doubt Hatred has better DPS than Guilt. Arrogance and Malice are out of the question, and likely Flawed. Blasphemy's Assist doesn't work most of the time since Siela is constantly on the move (even if you lock onto her).

So this means I'll have to deal with the mob phase in a NUR+ either way. Will need to practice, indeed.

Unless there is a way to have Siela just stand at the center while you deal with mobs in the meantime (for all cycles).

>Battle Network
Fair enough.

Also, I realized something (pretty late). You can actually control the height at which you can kick Blasphemy. Small detail, but still.

Haven't tested that idea yet but found some ancient notes on an old hard drive saying it doesn't work, though I don't clearly remember what happened.

Everything about this reminds me of GMG and GoW. Even the old hard drive thing.

Which drives me to say the following. Make backups of your old stuff if you haven't already, so you can preserve them (at least for longer). It's seemingly too late for GMG.

----------------------------

I've been trying different things in order to deal with the mob phase. Using Malice's Assist against the robots for three reasons: A bit of damage, buying me some time to kill the ranged guys, and if there's more than one robot, using the Malice assist to attempt to make the robots to focus on the two Malices while I'm busy killing the ranged guys (I guess you could say this is a different way of saying the second reason). Haven't thought of anything to deal with the laser part yet when anyone is around. One step at a time.

>notes
I'll just have to test it again. Probably over the weekend.

>lasers
I have a video where I double jump the lasers while enemies are out. The method is the same. You just run around keeping an eye on them and remember where the red circles overlap. Just choose one part and hover around it then get there and quickly roll when the beams are coming down.

>video
Saw it. Still, it's something that I needed practice with, and that's just what I did. I'm a bit better at handling the attack now. But still, I'd like to ask something. Siela following you around while the mobs are out... is it scripted, or is there a way to avoid it?

------------------------------------------------

Nothing worth adding. Just want to say that I'll start the NUR+ soon.

Can't remember exactly when she does it. I think it's a phase thing depending on her HP.

Doing enough damage before that is all that's going to skip it I think.

I'll probably won't do any testing this weekend. Can't be bothered hooking up the PS2 and have a few demos of RPGs on Switch to get through and since these are ones I might but I want to try figure out if they're worth it asap.

I was going to test if GZ could done repeatedly by changing the buttons to put attack on two buttons at once so you could be charging two GZs at once and after the first see if the second could do something weird like cancel the first.

I have no idea why I thought this and can't even remember being like over 10 years ago. Either you can't make this button set up or it doesn't work. If this layout can't be done on a controller maybe you can force it on a keyboard.

It's true of all special moves that you can't cancel them, but since GZ is a charge move instead of a command with multiple buttons I must have thought something weird might happen.

GZ's recovery can slightly be canceled by moving which means you don't go back into a neutral. It's barely noticeable.

>phase thing depending on her HP.
I see. I'll pay closer attention to this next time.

>demos to go over
Such as?

NOTE: I believe you said you played Triangle Strategy once. Is it good?

>if they're worth it asap
Understandable. For me, I just know most of what I'll play is quality (a good number of them are highlights of the genre I haven't yet gotten around to). The question is whether I'd like them or not, but there's a good chance I will.

>idea about GZ
Well, all I can say is that you apparently can't do that on console (there's predetermined control types in the settings, but you can't manually map inputs to your liking). Doing so on emulators via different key bindings is another matter. Doubt it will work, but I'll let you know nonetheless.

>Such as?
Unicorn Overlord, Crystal Project and I forgot the other.

>Triangle Strategy
Yes and love it. Did 100% which took like 4 playthroughs. Haven't beat hard mode yet.

>Unicorn Overlord
Never heard of it. Let me know if any of those (except CP) are any good. Aside from Triangle Strategy, FFV, XII, Tactics Ogre Reborn, and maybe SMT3, I feel like there are very few great RPGs out there.

--------------------------

Started the NUR+. Got through Stage 2. Absolutely no changes from a normal experience since you can't level up Guilt before Stage 2 anyway. Only difference is avoiding the upgrades for Sieg, but they don't really make a difference this early, so obviously, I haven't had the need to change up how I approach these stages yet.

Well, not quite. I got an AA+ rank in Stage 2, and got a Life Max Up (S). So I guess I have to try and not get good ranks if I want to stay at base throughout the whole game. Got a worse rank and got an item instead.

>Unicorn Overlord
There's a demo. It has something like the Gambit system.


I don't think you can stay at base. You'll always get awarded something and sometimes its a stat up.

End of stage ones don't make up much though.

>There's a demo
I own none of the consoles it will release on. I would try it right now if it was for PC, as it looks like something my machine can handle.

>don't think you can stay at base
So I'll just have to live with it, then? Won't complain either way, since as you said, the rewards I get shouldn't make that much of a difference.

Hasn't been announced for PC but wouldn't be surprised to see it at some point. Look up Coffee Potato's videos on it.

>forced stats
Yeah they're negligible.

>will probably get announced on PC later on
Hopefully. Ideally when one can still try out the demo.

>Coffee Potato's videos
On it.

>negligible
Alright then.

Just realized that even if I got bad ranks on every stage, there are some instances where you get stat ups, no matter what. For example, when you destroy all the spiders at the beginning of Stage 3. You MUST colled the DEF Up in order to proceed.

Shouldn't be too many cases like that.

You'll never be replaying stages so any random stat ups won't make a difference.

It's alright. Following GMG's philosophy for NURs, this would actually be perfectly okay. Which is to say, progression/forced upgrades are fine.

Still though, I've been having fun so far. Without playing for ranks (i.e killing a certain amount of enemies first), things have been progressing much faster (so far) in a NUR+ by just killing the target or the necessary enemies and moving on. I made an exception for Stage 4 (destroyed all the fast enemies in the center, just to be 100% safe when destroying the generators from a distance with Sniper Mode), but it still didn't take that long, and going around in circles made it so that not a single enemy touched me or Malice.

Stage 5 completed. I preferred to use Guilt over Blasphemy here, since the former can help me more against the tree boss. Not sure which is better at dealing damage per opening, but at least Guilt can open the boss up for damage without consuming Soul more often than Blasphemy's Assist (due to it needing meter), so you don't have to keep destroying cannons to refill your meter each time you run out.

Also, most of the targets in the stage are metallic types, so Malice can take care of the Stage and the cannons, while Guilt gets better results against the boss, if only because of what I said above about not having to destroy cannons for more kicks.

I also wanted to give Arrogance a chance, but the maximum charge isn't great. I think Guilt does more damage without needing to absorb hits. Arrogance should have dealt more damage at base, I feel. This also reminds me of people complaining about Reflect being 'too overpowered' in KH2. You need an attack to proc it, so without it, it's useless. It needs to be strong as an offense that gives you an option for a defense in a game about commitment (at the cost of meter). And if the damage it deals is weak, you end up with things like Water in KH3, where it's not even worth using the more you progress through the game (at base it's good enough, though).

So yeah, I think Arrogance should have been considerably stronger, especially if that means not being on the offensive for several seconds, depending on the enemies, their strength, and their attack frequency. Counters are another matter, but given Arrogance's startup, I believe the buff still sounds reasonable even when you take into account the counters, given that it would need anticipation and an understanding of the enemy's behavior.

For the Stage 7 boss, does anything happen if you keep damaging parts of the boss beyond what's needed to expose the weak point?

Stage 8 beaten. I probably made a mistake in bringing Hatred instead of Blasphemy, but I wanted to have an easier time against the boss, since I have no issues with the stage itself. Also, Breakdown lets me counter hit the big green guys safely when they're charging at me (Hatred's Assist does more damage when you're at base Strength, but wanted to conserve meter here and there in order to not run out).

The boss itself was simple. Killed it in 4 cycles. First one is a freebie since the 'legs' are two slashes away from giving in. Used Malice's Sniper Mode when the boss was down, which dealt about half a bar (and a bit more) of damage, and the boss has two bars of HP.

Second cycle onwards was dealt with via advancing jumping slashes from a distance to one of the legs, then immediately run backwards and do a jumping slash in order to damage the leg again and to possibly avoid an attack from one of the legs. Then when the leg started flashing red, I'd break the other one with Hatred's Assist. Used Malice to kill all the spiders, un-summon, then slash the leg I was focusing on (which had very little HP from my attacks). The only attack that I needed to watch out for was the laser attack, which I avoided by running back to the open area on either end of the arena, then running from left to right. The boss was much more easier than Stage 7's boss, mostly because this one didn't have infinitely respawning enemies to assist it.

Edit: Demonstration of what I said above:



Did an Item demonstration for comparison:

>stage 7 boss
Seems to just keep falling apart. Only a visual thing as far as I know

>laser
There are only 3 beams in the Japanese version from what I remember.

>Jump slashing legs
No jump run is going to be interesting.

>videos
Very good.

Thought something happened to you. Glad to know that's not the case.

>only 3 beams
Definitely more than just number changes. Interesting.

>no jump run
That'll have to wait. I feel like playing ZoE2 next after the NUR+.

>Very good.
I had also recorded Stage 10's boss, it should be uploaded tomorrow. Didn't record Stage 9 because there is too much stuff going on and I can't record while playing. Same for Siela, Azrail, and stages in general, so Victor may be as far as I'll go (where videos are concerned).

NOTE: Half the reason for these vids is to see if something could be done better in terms of tactics.

-----------------------------------

I'm having a lot of difficulties with Stage 11. Specifically this part (skip to 1:12):



Can't do what this guy does since an unupgraded Malice can't destroy the target generator or the robot before something breaks the crest. Also, ranged attacks can still get me, since I don't have the 2 frontal units gotten from upgrades.

I tried going to the back while preventing the robot from chasing after me, but Blasphemy's blast radius doesn't reach the generator above at base.

All I can think of is to kill every soldier until the generators get tired, since there's no way to safely snipe the generator from with all these enemies.

>Thought something happened to you. Glad to know that's not the case.
Meant to reply three times but every time I tried recently something came up and I forgot.

>video
I remember that part being quite a bit of hit and run.

You might be able to take out the robot first with Malice.
If you get up there you can knick the gunners down to the lower part.

>forgot
I see.

>hit and run
Hmmm....

>take out the robot first
I assume you mean over time and not when the fight starts, since I don't have enough DPS to do this before the soldiers rush at either of the units (or me), or the gunners start shooting, or whatever else.

However, I think I came up with a plan. The start is a bit risky, but first I must lure the robot to the lower part, then get to the very end of the arena (a bit beyond the central generator, on the stairs). Robot cannot get up there as long as I don't go too far to the sides. Then I focus on bombing the side generators to get rid of the soldiers (must make sure to catch the soldiers in the blast, while hitting them here and there to replenish meter). I must also be careful of the gunners during this part (I wish I had long range lock-on, as I could pull them to the other end of the arena at the start of the fight, so they don't bother me during this part).

Once I destroy the generators and the soldiers, the next step depends on how much meter I have left. If enough, I can proceed to destroy the generator above, then lure the robot to the stairs with me, attack him with the sword to refill the meter back to full, summon Malice, stun him with the lock-on ray and press triangle rapidly while it is stunned. This has a double purpose. Stunning him with the ray resets the robot's 'counter' meter, so it won't ever retaliate as long as I keep stunning him. Also, Malice's shots become stronger when the robot is stunned, so this speed things up quite considerably.

If, on the other hand, I don't have enough meter to take down the generator with Malice, I just lure the robot, do the above plan to refill meter, destroy the robot with said strat, and then proceed to use Sniper Mode to take down the generator.

This will take time, but it's fun having to think of such starts in order to be able to win a difficult battle.

Also, Stage 10 video is up:

>robot
You can get it stuck at the bottom or lure it to the far end. I've had it stay down there and forget about me.

>gunners
Push them off.

>the robot
As long as he doesn't bother me while I myself am at the far end dealing with soldiers and generators, either way helps.

>push them
With normals?

----------------------------------

I was able to beat that section. Forgot that there was another encounter after this one, but I knew that if I failed this, I'd have to do the previous one again. So I approached it as safely as I could think. As in, running in circles, using a jump slash each time I passed by a gunner. If I landed a counter hit, great, but I'd still keep running to avoid the soldiers. This actually worked. When I was down to one gunner (which fell down from its platform), I used a bomb on it, and it also caught all the soldiers as well (I ran around the platform to be able to bomb him, so the soldiers that were behind me could run into me again from the front), and since I had the meter, I spammed bombs to get rid of the gunner, just to be completely safe. Then I blasted everyone left. The other soldier spawns were also killed this way, but I wanted to get some meter back by hitting them, so I juggled the soldiers right after bombing them. Even a second after touching the ground or so, they could still be juggled (would get off the ground again), so I drove them to a corner and kept slashing at them. Finished the first part of the stage with about 3/4 of my meter ready for use.

And most important of all, I'm past the checkpoint.

>with normals
Yes.

Oh? I'll keep that in mind, then.

I have a sound strategy for most Scenes during the second part of the stage, but I have issues with the final part before Victor (skip to 5:59 in the video I linked to above). What is the strategy for this in NUR+? I prioritize the gunner on the back (from the perspective of the guy in the video, on the platform he jumps onto), since that makes it easier to read everything else. But then I'm not sure what to do next. Fast spiked enemies spawn not too long after, and the robot can actually get onto the platform for some reason, and its attacks are a one hit kill (well, if you're tagged by an attack, chances are that you're dead by way of the follow-up from an ally). Can't really focus on one enemy type at a time, since the allies (especially the gunners) are covering one another pretty much constantly.

More hit and run.

Move to another platform if the robot gets up. Get in some bombs on a generator but watch out doing them consecutively due to gunners shooting through them and you won't see the shot. I remember doing it something like this.

I have finally beaten Stage 11. Pretty brutal for me. My failures ranged from doing an action I shouldn't have done/an off-screen enemy taking a swing, to incredibly silly stuff such as picking up a stat up.

Here's a copy/paste of the coverage for what I did to beat it (wrote it as I went along).

- Starting out, I lured various soldiers to the starting place, away from the gunner's range. Then I proceeded to do the usual, bomb them, juggle the crowd to regain meter, repeat. If one or two remained, I'd use Sieg's attacks to preserve and gain more meter.

- I ran to the sides to be able to jump onto the platform on the center, and bombed the gunner right as it was about to attack (so it died in one hit). Two soldiers jumped onto the side of the platform, but I pushed them off. Then I summoned Malice to destroy the cannons, and then the generator.

- Went to defeat the shield guy on the right. I didn't want to spend meter, so I countered him until his shield was destroyed, and attacked him afterwards until he died (being careful of his spinning attack). I had no business going right, and killing the shield guy made all the enemies on the left to vanish, so I proceeded.

- There is a gap where you're able to shoot the gunner on the distance with Sniper Mode (before going down to meet another gunner). I did this so I could push it off the platform, so it wouldn't bother me at all.

- Pulled the other gunner towards me (had to be a bit close since I didn't have the long range upgrade *obviously*), then killed it via delayed jumping slashes.

- Went further down, destroyed the two orange generators (probably unnecessary), then lured soldiers up to where the gunner that I destroyed was in, then did the bomb/juggle strat against them.

- On my way up to the green generator I used a jumping slash (from a lower point, so I could land it) on the gunner I had pushed earlier, so this would knock it back a bit further to the wall, which seemed to block its shots, so I was safe to use Sniper Mode to destroy the target generator.

- Now, the hardest part of the first half of the stage, the one that I asked help for. Since I'm still not quite experienced, this bit is a bit luck based for me. Before the cutscene initiated, I summoned Malice in order to do a variation of the strat I described earlier. Instead of bombing both generators, I use Malice's Sniper Mode to either remove a good chunk of the right generator's HP, or destroy it entirely (that depends entirely on how quick the soldiers are to reach my position, and the fact that sometimes, only one unit's shots can actually land *the other either goes through the enemy, or whatever, but it doesn't register*). There were two soldiers immediately rushing through, but before Sniper Mode initiaded, the two Malice units used their strong shot (the one that knocks stuff back). I was lucky enough to destroy the right generator, but one of the units took a hit from a gunner. No biggie, since I was prepared for this (and if it meant having to deal with one less generator, that was a very appealing trade).

In the chaos, I managed to avoid the soldiers, the gunners, and the cannons, and lured the robot below. So I rushed to the far end to do the strat I detailed a few posts ago; the one about bombing soldiers, trying to catch the generator in the blast as well, while being mindful of the gunner below (I didn't push it, since this usually ends up with the robot, the soldiers, the other gunner, or the cannons tagging me). The soldiers naturally went down before the generator, but since I had already destroyed one of the generators, I had to deal with less respawns this time. Then I repeated this process until the generator was destroyed (and the soldiers went along with it).

Afterwards, I lured the robot to where I was (on the stairs), then did delayed jumping slashes until I refilled the meter back to full. Then I summoned Malice, stunned him with the lock-on ray, pressed triangle rapidly, repeat. Sieg would sometimes slide a bit to the sides, so I had to reposition quickly, so the next lock-on ray wouldn't miss. Then the robot went down relatively quickly. Then all I had to do was destroy the main generator, and this nightmare section would be over.

- But that wasn't the end of it, for there was one last section to clear (fail to clear it, and you must repeat the whole thing from scratch, and I mean the beginning of the stage, not just the section above). I just did the strat that I came up with via improvisation; run around in circles, jump slashing the gunners (sometimes I'd land a counter). Once they were all gone, the soldiers were dealt with the usual antics, bomb+juggles.

- Now I'm past the checkpoint, so I didn't have to worry too much about repeating the above if I failed at this. Anyway, for this part with soldiers, fast moving spikes, and a generator, I took one step forward and summoned Malice, then readied Sniper Mode to deal with the generator. One soldier was knocked back by one of the unit's strong shots, the others remained in their place (not within range to draw their attention). This may seem risky (and it is) because of the spikes, but more often than not, the spikes either ran into one of my shots from Sniper Mode (they were destroyed if this happened), some would zig zag past me, some would not move past the invisible wall (wouldn't get on the main path to where I was), and the ones that zig zagged past me, often, just stared at Sieg while moving slowly. Anyway, the generator was destroyed after some seconds.

- Rushed to the back, switched to Blasphemy, waited for some seconds, and then bombed the target gunner (it died in one hit owed to a counter hit, this is why I waited for some seconds).

- Ran to the top left of the map (from the perspective of where you start in), and did the same for one of the four target gunners. Killed it with a counter-bomb. Then I lured all the soldiers back to the starting point to do what I've been doing against them (bomb+juggles). Regained some meter while doing so, which I used to kill all the gunners with counters (waiting for the right moment for when they'd attack).

- Got right next to the gate on the back, summoned Malice, moved the stick forward for around half a second or less to move forward just a bit, and used Sniper Mode to hit the robot (the sole target). This would make him rush forward to where I was, despite it not being within range to 'know' my location (at least not without provocation). Moved back to the gate, just to prevent a gunner from moving towards me (since it gets pushed a bit from the robot's rush). Then I used Sniper Mode to make the robot rush towards me one more time, since it would still wander about (would need to get closer to him, which I don't want to do owed to calling everyone's attention, so I need to do this to the robot a second time). I didn't need to move out of the way, it still couldn't reach me (only barely). Then I waited for it to come closer, and when it did, I did a normal slash to stop it on its tracks, then started doing delayed jumping slashes to get a full meter again. Then I destroyed the robot with the same method I used for the other one; stun via lock-on -> press triangle rapidly -> repeat. Unsummoned, and switched to Blasphemy to prepare for the next bit.

- Skipped the cutscene with the lizard, and used Blasphemy while it was running towards me, which resulted in a counter hit. Waited for it to rush towards me. Bombed the lizard when it started doing so, moved a bit to the left to be able to forward roll past it, and it crashed into something behind me. Then I spammed bombs until it died. One spike hit me once, but I regained health back immediately (since I had destroyed the lizard, and the damage taken was relatively minor).

- Moved ahead to make the soldiers spawn. Lured all of them out of the sight of the gunners (who couldn't attack or move, but still), and then it was bomb+juggle time again. Then after all of them were dead, I summoned Malice. There is a particular spot where you're able to shoot the generator way back without alerting the gunners, or making the fast spikes spawn. I use the things on the left of the road as a guiding point (specifically the gaps in-between, the middle of the first gap is where the spikes spawn, so you want to stand behind that spot). Then I just destroyed the generator with Sniper Mode. Unsummoned, moved ahead, the spikes spawned, but soon vanished once the generator finished exploding.

- Jumped onto the next elevated area (the next encounter), summoned Malice, moved towards the left, and then forward. There is a black spot on the ground that I use as a guiding point to not move furhter (or else I'll have to deal with soldiers). Had Sieg face right (which moved the units in a desirable position, so both of them could hit the generator *sometimes this still wouldn't work, but it fortunately didn't happen this time*). Had enough time to destroy the generator, unsummon, and jump to avoid the upcoming spikes from the right. Destroyed these, then focused on the generator from the right. Then I moved to the center to snipe the central generator. Quickly unsummoned, switched to Blasphemy, and moved to the far end on the left side, waiting for soldiers. Once they came, I'd to the usual. But the problem with this part is that some gunners are always on the move, even if I'm not within range. Once they themselves get within range (one of them did), they proceed to shoot me while I'm busy dealing with the soldiers. Also, the robot was alerted since I moved towards to where it was (not on purpose, so I was forced to switch sides). The other gunner wasn't around, so I waited for the half dead (kek) soldiers to come, and the robot was fortunately stuck on the other side (it could easily clip through and get onto the platform to move towards the spot, but it didn't). So I killed all the soldiers. The other gunner came along, but I could kill it with a counter bomb.

Next, I lured the robot and did the same as with the other two robots, delayed jump slashes to get meter back. Unfortunately, the gunner came to its aid, so I had to deal with both. I bombed the gunner (not a counter), and interrupted the robot with a slash, who was rushing to hit me (an OHKO attack in NUR+). Then I got behind the gunner, in a way that it and the robot where in the same direction, then started bombing both until the gunner died. Used the lock-on ray to reset the 'counter' meter of the robot, then resumed the meter gaining shenanigans. After that was done, I destroyed the robot via the stun -> mash triangle method.

The only two threats were the alt. gunners. One of them was dealt with a counter bomb, and the other with delayed jumping slashes to get meter back.

- Next bit had soldiers. Lured them to the lower part, and you know the rest. Then I moved ahead to spawn all the other enemies (soldiers, gunners, and the generator). Here I didn't kill any soldiers, I pushed them to the left side where they can fall into a place they have no hope from returning via jumps. For this, I bombed a crowd, then attempted to juggle them towards the intended area, while being mindful of not being too close to the edge (so I wouldn't fall myself, and to avoid being shot by a gunner). After two soldiers remained to be pushed, I made use of Malice's strong shots to knock them on their backs, and kept waiting until the units pushed the soldiers below (which was great, since the gunner couldn't shoot me for using this safe method from a distance). After every soldier was knocked down there, I moved the camera to see below, waited for the gunner to shoot, took two steps to the side, and used Blasphemy's Assist. By the time Blasphemy was close, the gunner readied another attack, which resulted in an OHKO counter hit. Then I could use Sniper Mode on the generator without fear of being interrupted by soldiers or that gunner.

- The next bit took a while. I moved to the road to where I was supposed to go next, but moved back and jumped onto the platform. There, I waited for 4 fast spikes to fall to the left. I could either jump back to the area where I knocked soldiers to (by jumping down from that same spot), but this could come with the risk of a gunner shooting me. Shockingly, I didn't need to wait TOO long for all 4 spikes to fall down there. So I didn't need to worry about them at all for the remainder of this scene. But the wait wasn't over, since I wanted to lure the gunners towards the platform I was waiting from. Long story short, the two of them took the bait, and paid dearly for it.

Then I moved to the high platform where the two alt. gunners are. Chose to use the right side to get there. Then I waited until one of these gunners was ready to shoot, then I used a jumping slash to land a counter hit, which left it with about 20%~ health left, or less. I fell down below while doing so, but I could avoid the soldiers, and there were no spikes to worry about. Then I did the same; counter hit via jumping slash, which killed one of the gunners. The other was killed via a bomb counter. Proceeded to summon Malice and destroy two generators. Used Sniper Mode from a platform to destroy the robot. Didn't get meter back from it, since I could do so with the generator further in. Made my way to where the ATK stat up was to make some spikes spawn, and destroyed them with Malice. Of course, the stat up was left there. Then I did delayed jumping slashes against the generator to get meter back. Used Sniper Mode to remove about 90% of its health, unsummoned, attacked it again to regain meter, and summoned again to finish it off. Then soldiers appeared. Lured them to the area below. You know the drill.

- Final scene. Summoned Malice, and moved to the left. Made Sieg face right, so the units could have better chances to land all shots. Destroyed the generator on the left. An unit got shot twice by gunners and got knocked back, but again, this was part of the plan (since it means I have to deal with less soldiers and the one less generator). Then I ran around in a big circle clock-wise. Attacked the gunners with delayed jumping slashes as I was about to run into them, then kept running in circles. This way, the soldiers could never catch up to me, and the gunners never landed a shot on me, owed to my ever changing position (good thing that their shots don't home). After getting rid of them, I lured all the soldiers to the side of the destroyed generator, but the opposite end. Bombed all of them, juggled them ONCE, then quickly jump cancelled the third slash and made my way to where the generator was. The soldiers remained in their place. Used Sniper Mode to remove about 70% of the generator's HP, unsummoned, and used delayed jumping slashes until I got all of my meter back, and until the generator had one silver of health left (judging from the bar). Summoned Malice again on the bottom left corner (the camera facing the gate we came from). Then waited until Malice destroyed the generator on their own.

This was the tricky part. The position Sieg is in is of vital importance, since the robot cannot come close (so it can't get on your platform) if you remain on this exact corner. When the generator disappeared and the two gunners on the left appeared, the units would automatically fire a strong shot, this was the cue to start holding triangle to use Sniper Mode to juggle this gunner as far back as possible. While on Sniper Mode, I also attempt to destroy any spikes that spawn on my platform, as well as pushing off any soldier that jumps onto my platform.

Once I had killed all the spikes on this platform (including respawns), I proceeded to focus on the robot, while keeping soldiers at bay. It is imperative that no soldier ever reaches the platform while the robot is initiating its rush counter. Just kept shooting the robot while trying to keep one soldier away, but it was important to keep a constant barrage of shots on the robot, so it would just keep flinching, but if you never stop shooting it, the robot will not counter again (and the counter will very likely make it go onto the platform, likely OHKOing you and ending all of your precious progress right then and there). The other soldiers were stuck behind the robot and couldn't jump onto the platform. After destroying the robot, I waited for the soldiers to come onto the platform to do the usual antics, but I had both less room to maneuver owed to the gunner we pushed back a while ago still being able to shoot us if we move towards its position while juggling the soldiers to get meter back (and we should have very little left, owed to the long use of Sniper Mode). After carefully getting rid of the soldiers, I had more than enough bombs to counter the two gunners on the left. Destroyed the normal gunner on the right via pulling him with the lock-on ability, and doing delayed jump slashes on it, while avoiding the shots of the other gunner. The sole remaining survivor (the alt. gunner) was dealt with in the same way.

And that was the stage. What a journey it was. Most of the difficulty came from having to start from scratch after dealing with tricky scenes.

Victor was ridiculously easy in comparison. The approach was the usual, drive him to the far end on one of the sides of the arena in order to jump slash him while the black swords on the center move around. This does too little damage, but I suppose it adds up. For the shockwave attack, I used Malice, since it proves useful in NUR+. For the second shockwave attack, since Victor doesn't move to the center (he performs the attack based on where I am, not giving me time to move away to snipe him safely), I kick Blasphemy instead. Repeat until he summons soldiers, and the strategy for them doesn't change. Just make sure to use Blasphemy when you feel Victor wants to do the shockwave attack, so you can damage him with counters.

And that was that. Stage 11 finally complete.

Stage 12 beaten. That was like 20 times easier than Stage 11, so I beat it on my first try. Just everything about it is easier. More easier arenas, and not a single annoying enemy to deal with (like gunners). There are probably less arenas to cover per checkpoint, but that may be in part because, again, everything is easier to deal with, so it feels like you're making progress much faster, and with less thought.

And the boss is still as easy as he is in vanilla runs. Just takes more time to beat it, but you can comfortably keep doing the loop without fear of running out of meter (you can regain about 80% or even all of what you spend with Hatred's Assist with delayed air attacks, which also deals relatively good damage for NUR+ standards.

I wonder if Stage 13 will be as hard as Stage 11. I forget if the 'boss' has a checkpoint, but if it doesn't, it's probably at the start of the circular staircase with a bunch of optional enemies you can (evidently) skip anyway.

Stage 11 is the hardest. Are you going to repeat it to face the enemy horde that replaces Victor?

Are you going to do Side B?

Stage 13 has a hidden room where you are trapped in a small room and must face tons of enemies. I think it's Side B too.

I completely forgot about Side B. Not sure if I'll go for it right after this. I can think of two trouble spots already. Stage 2's final encounter before the boss (small space with lots of enemies, and you can't reach the higher levels above, since the jump upgrade is not allowed in this run *probably wouldn't help much if at all, because of the gunners*), and of course, Stage 11 (what else?) with the problem spot from the first half now replacing the cannons on the center with two more gunners. I think the soldiers are replaced by metal soldiers too, so they're going to be hard to kill even with Blasphemy's Assist. So I can definitely see this as being even harder than what I've been through with Stage 11.

...So I think I'll leave it for later, actually. I really want to try out ZoE2 after this. I've been saving the game at multiple points spread across two memory cards to revisit most stages, 11 being one of them (before it turns into Side B), so I may repeat it when I come back to it before delving into Side B.

>hidden room
In Stage 13? I don't remember (or know) about this room. I could revisit it on my MAX save file to check it out.

>ZoE2
You going to be playing it up to extreme?