Chaos Legion

About the enemies I mentioned earlier, I figure there is no need to record a video to show how they look.



Skip to 4:17.

>Spartan
It seems its timing gets progressively smaller. I haven't been able to use it more than 3 times, but with (the bad) tools, I managed to get a fourth, and if I'm not mistaken, I think a fifth.

>Overlord
Another game with summoning? Very interesting. Now I kind of want to see how they all work to get some ideas. Reminds me of how GMG used to study other games to come up with ideas to discuss on how one can improve various aspects from GoW. Counting CL, I've played 3 games with summoning systems (KH1 and 2), so there are 3 more to go (eventually).

>move units with the right stick
So the game had fixed camera angles or something?

----------------------------

Got through Stage 8 and 9. I'm under the impression that your damage is nerfed a bit on Hard, that or enemies get more Defense, because I think by this point I could stun those green big guys with a jumping slash, but still can't do it.

Stage 9 was easier due to knowing about the tech about Arcia's dodge. As a result, I defeated the boss in 2 tries (screwed up and put myself in a situation where tentacles could hit me on my first attempt).

Malice has Lv 3 Force and Lv 3 ATK. Everything else is at base (for now). He also has 3M EXP. Since I know more about Spartan now, perhaps it would be a good idea to max out Enchant, and then get more ATK upgrades (both Enchant upgrades are not enough to even reach 1M by themselves).

Hatred has 1.7M EXP, enough to either max out both Enchant and Assist, or Enchant and some ATK upgrades, or Enchant and save the EXP for the Lv 4 upgrade (though like I said, I could simply bring Hatred along).

I forget, but is Hatred's Assist (and other's, for that matter) dependent on Sieg's power (where damage output is concerned)? Or is it determined by Assist Level? Or both?

>those enemies
They don't have a counter.

>So the game had fixed camera angles or something?
I think using that kind of movement was a state where the main guy couldn't move. From there you could move the monsters around fast as a group. I think in that state the camera would enter a fixed position.

>Malice
Since I almost never switch out Malice, I don't level up Enchant.
I go with Force and Attack.

>Hatred
I never use him. Just want his Enchant to keep Breakdown.

>Assist power
I assumed it was Assist and maybe Legion atk. I've never tested low Assist+Max Sieg vs high Assist+low Sieg.

>don't have a counter
I suspected so. Was going to go nuts trying to press on by trying to find one.

>main guy couldn't move
Oh, so a bit like Sniper Mode? But instead of a crosshair, you control the units. I see.

>don't level up Enchant
I was going to ask if there wasn't any use for pulling singular enemies towards you, but it seems you don't need to get Spartan to do so. Unless I loaded the wrong file and mixed things up.

>Force and Attack
Basically what I've been doing. Force first, Attack later. Malice has Lv 7 Attack now, by the way.

>never use him
Not even to temporarily break one of the spider boss' legs in one attack (if it survives the first beating, of course)? Seems like it doesn't even care about power, Hatred will instantly break it. Love this. Wish more of his grabs were more potent, though.

>keep Breakdown
Outside of the above instance, yes, I can see the reasoning behind this.

>Assist power
May test it one day.

---------------------------------

Beat Stage 10 and 11. Brought Blasphemy along this time, for the Assist. By Stage 11, I could max out Assist and Enchant (without a Spirit Gem, of course).

Getting 3x counter hits on Delacroix is definitely not an easy task, it seems. Does he have to be decently above the ground? He did it near the stairs, so at a point where he was very close to the floor, and I got hit. Though I'm still not good enough to get it consistently, whichever the case.

At this point, I realized that I would have wanted Blasphemy to have more EXP by the time I reached Stage 10, so I could max out Assist (the greater AoE helps). Though I probably would have had to bring Guilt along for one more stage to get Ground Zero.

>Oh, so a bit like Sniper Mode? But instead of a crosshair, you control the units. I see.
I checked a video and you can move while controlling the swarm. Camera zooms out.

>I was going to ask if there wasn't any use for pulling singular enemies towards you
I never got much use out of it.

>Not even to temporarily break one of the spider boss' legs in one attack (if it survives the first beating, of course)?
I've done runs with Hatred on that boss for fun but in general I don't get much use out of him.

>Hatred will instantly break it
Yeah it's a special case. There's a few others.

>Does he have to be decently above the ground
Flawed's Enchant grants a jump height boost. Though recently while working with my friend on a speedrun I found it was possible with default jump height. Timing is different though.

>can move while doing this
I see. Wonder how one could reliably control both (multitasking), but stuff like TWEWY exists, so.

>never got much use out of it
Even for specific, isolated cases?

>in general
Yeah, I can understand the sentiment.

>few others
Like Stage 12's boss? I wonder if you can reliably force him to throw his shield away instead of having to wait for a bit until he decides to do it.

EDIT: Actually nevermind. I figured out a way to both remove the shield, and force a melee attack right away.

>jump height boost
But wouldn't that mean losing out normal jump cancelling?

>timing is different
Tell me about this.

>Even for specific, isolated cases?
Maybe one or two.

>Like Stage 12's boss?
Yeah and stage 2 (same but without shield) and stage 3 & 4 lizards.

>force him to throw his shield away
I think he might if you stay on the upper part that runs around the edge of the arena.

Also, Blasphemy can break the shield, though sometimes the boss calls it back instantly.

>But wouldn't that mean losing out normal jump cancelling?
I think you learn jump height before Despise.

>Tell me about this.
Not really sure. Seems you have to be a certain distance away. It might be that the wave hits lower at that distance. I have a video on it. Look for my playlist named something about speedrunning the Japanese.

I couldn't get it to work up close without extra jump height from what I remember.

>stage 2 boss
Makes sense.

>stage 3 & 4 lizards
Ah, those, yes. Wonder if it puts them in a knockdown state, or if it deals damage on top of that. Though the former is fine, I suppose.

>staying on the upper part of the arena
Yeah, I've tried that. Think he needs to at least make 3 moves (jump to where you start in, jump to wherever you move, and then jump to where he originally was) before he throws the shield. That's still good though.

>Blasphemy breaks the shield
Yeah, that's what I used in this video:



Looks like deliberately having Hatred be deflected by the boss' jump and slash move forces his AI to follow that up with another sword slash, allowing us to force a loop whenever we want. However, this requires giving up Malice for Blasphemy, which means having to deal with the high speed enemies without him... and I have no idea how to do so. At least not without getting hit a few times.

I tried recording AAA+ Rank attempts on this stage with the stats I have, both with Malice+Hatred and Blasphemy+Hatred, but it looks like CL is a bit more on the demanding side than GoW is, so my machine can't quite handle a room full of mobs + a recording software running. So I'll have to settle with boss videos, or text coverage.

>video
You mean this?



>couldn't get it to work up close
It works, but I had to use save states when testing this. Doing it reliably, however, is another matter.

>Wonder if it puts them in a knockdown state, or if it deals damage on top of that
Both from what I remember. At max it might even be an instant kill. Might have a video of it.

>having to deal with the high speed enemies
In stage 12? Which enemies?

>It works, but I had to use save states when testing this. Doing it reliably, however, is another matter.
Too risky in a speedrun too.

Good to know it works though.

>AAA+
To this day it's impossible to get this rank in some stages. I think it's the first stage with Arcia and Stage 5 Side A with Sieg. This is for the English versions. I suspect it's due to the times being changed from the Japanese version and not being tested properly.

>both
You're right. I just saw this against Stage 2's boss.

>Which enemies?
These:



Skip to 1:45.

>impossible to get this rank in some stages
I remember you mentioning this years ago. Shame. So would you say the Japanese version is straight better?

--------------------------

Finished the game. Victor was easy, Azrail not so much, but Siela was something else. Due to the fight extending for much longer compared to my first playthrough (where I grinded and got a lot of ATK upgrades), the fight took me like a dozen of tries to beat. I also tried to use Breakdown when she rushes at you (right after the laser rain attack), but got hit in the process. Thought this was safe, but apparently it isn't. Unless there's a certain timing aspect to it.

As expected, had much more fun on this playthrough, and very glad that I didn't really need any grinding to beat things reasonably fast. Between counter hits, Blasphemy's Assist, Malice destroying Metal types, etc., there wasn't really a moment I wished I had more attack power. Well, except perhaps against Siela, but I likely just suck at the fight (at the moment).

I also unlocked a 'Super Mode'. The menu says something along the lines of "this mode allows you to defeat enemies in one blow"... sounds like a Very Easy mode. Not sure if I should bother.

Also, something strange happened while I was dealing with Stage 2's Boss. He basically dealt extreme chip damage to me with all of his attacks. The same also applied to Legions. This frustrated me, since I wanted to use Arrogance against him, but now a dozen attacks won't even make the legions change color. Is this supposed to happen? I thought this was an effect of Super Mode, but I was receiving normal damage up until the boss.

Here's a video, if you're interested in seeing it:



At the end of the video, I showcase my stats, so you can see that I don't even have Defense maxed out, but pretty sure that even with it maxed, I shouldn't be receiving... nothing, practically. Of course, I don't have any cheats active to achieve something to this effect. Or is it an emulator quirk?

>fast enemies
That's how you deal with them; have them run into corners then bomb them.

>So would you say the Japanese version is straight better?
If you care about rankings that much. Otherwise, no. It's way easier.

>but got hit in the process
Breakdown doesn't have long enough i-frames. I have succeeded before somehow. I think by hitting her at an angle and the distance Breakdown travels got me out of the way.

It you want a guaranteed and better option, use Airblaze.

>super mode
I think you die in one hit too.

>taking chip damage
Did you turn on Super Mode?
I've heard of this before. Years ago someone mentioned it and a relation to Super Mode.

I've also had it happen on the Japanese without Super Mode. I'm not sure what causes it. I'd just stop taking damage at some point during the stage.

>That's how you deal with them
Yeah, I just looked for a video to show you the enemies, but then later decided to actually watch the video in the off-chance that it showcased a good tactic for them, and it looked worth trying. Going to try this later, good thing I made saves for every stage.

>rankings
Just for replay value, I suppose. But I get the feeling I'd end up favoring other kinds of challenge runs, however many you and vets have come up with.

>way easier
Everything just has less health?

>Airblaze
It works too? Huh. Noted.

>die in one hit
So... pretty much the precursor to Heaven and Hell?

>did I turn on Super Mode
No. I just reloaded my save file to start collecting Spirit Gems and Thanatos' chips. The only possible relation between this and Super Mode, in my case, is that I unlocked it. And since I use save states to skip the intro, the loading menu, etc., it's like I haven't 'powered off the console' (so it looks like I did it in one sitting). Not sure if that could be the cause, but I definitely didn't turn the mode on.

>also a thing in JP
Weird. I suppose devs just didn't notice this was a thing.

Although, I did give the mode a try for 2 stages. Your sword turns orange, and it looks like you have infinite Soul. Do you think Super Mode was meant to be a 'God Mode' of sorts, but due to a programming oversight, we just get killed in one hit? Not sure why they'd have the Legions have basically infinite 'health', but not us.

-------------------------

I'm thinking of testing Arrogance and Claw for the stages they're normally available in, given that they have 0EXP. Afterwards, I'll proceed to mess around with Thanatos.

I'll also request the roadmap as well. Curious to see how much it differs from what I did.

>showcased a good tactic for them,
Run to a corner with your back to the rest and watch the radar. Jump when you see fast dots coming in. Then bomb them.

>Everything just has less health?
And less attack power, less enemies, far lower exp requirements.

>It works too? Huh. Noted.
I-frames are longer.

>super mode
There was something about turning it on and off and something carrying over. Don't know if it always happens.

> I suppose devs just didn't notice this was a thing.
I have a theory that it has something to do with using healing items.

>Not sure why they'd have the Legions have basically infinite 'health', but not us
The Legions don't die in one hit?

>road map
Guilt and Malice. Keep Guilt until first Spirit Gem. Use on Guilt to get Ground Zero and combo. Switch Guilt for Blapshemy. Level up Assist.

Don't really remember what I did next. Doesn't really matter because Malice and Blasphemy cover the whole game.

I'd probably use another Spirit Gem on Hatred to get Breakdown. Flawed depending on whether you want Double Jump or not.

I leave all defense stats until last because I do getting hit.
Arrogance is left to rot.

Once you get Thanatos, get to Perfect Form first, then attack and stat farming Stage 7 AAA+.

>Run to a corner with your back to the rest and watch the radar. Jump when you see fast dots coming in. Then bomb them.

Noted. Does this work for any other instance they're present at?

>less enemies
Wait, you mean less enemies per arena, or does that version have a smaller bestiary?

>I-frames are longer
Meant to say if the timing for the ground stab wouldn't make it difficult to land, as well as the damage, but I tried it, and the answers are satisfactory.

>There was something about turning it on and off and something carrying over. Don't know if it always happens.
I see. Well, in my case, I loaded my file before even looking at the New Game menu, so I definitely didn't touch anything in regards to Super Mode.

>healing items
Didn't use them. At least not in that stage.

>The Legions don't die in one hit?
Nope. Thanatos can take multiple hits and is unfazed. You can even use his Assist infinite times.

>Guilt and Malice. Keep Guilt until first Spirit Gem. Use on Guilt to get Ground Zero and combo. Switch Guilt for Blapshemy. Level up Assist.
Similar to what I did, except I didn't switch to Blasphemy right away.

Does the roadmap expect you to get a certain amount of EXP during a stage (either by killing a lot of enemies before getting rid of a generator or whatever, and/or killing things via counter hits)?

Note: Shame that the EXP you get during the Prologue is basically wasted (unless Thanatos gets it when you get all the chips).

>I'd probably use another Spirit Gem on Hatred to get Breakdown.
This is what I did instead of focusing on Blasphemy. I noted it before, I wish I had used Blasphemy more often to have enough EXP to level up his Assist. So I wasn't that far off from the roadmap. Good to know.

>Arrogance is left to rot.
...Figured as much. Sad.

>Once you get Thanatos, get to Perfect Form first, then attack and stat farming Stage 7 AAA+.
Is this a tip for whenever I get him, or is this part of the roadmap? The run I did was mostly to see if it was possible to beat everything with relative ease without the need to grind even once (as in, repeating stages when you're able to).

--------------------------------

While messing around to get better at the final boss (sidetracked from gem/chip collecting), I noticed something. You can use the lock-on thing to stun the big robot that Siela summons, and when I attacked the robot, my next hit was a counter hit. Tried it on more enemies, and it works. Though it seems the strongest attack you can use is Breakdown, since Ground Zero has a bit longer startup. Though not sure if resetting the string via lock-on cancel has better DPS (for enemies that are open to this). You can still use Breakdown once the enemy's HP is low enough to finish it off.

>Does this work for any other instance they're present at?
They all behave the same way but depending on what else in going on, might not be the best idea. I wouldn't bother if there are huge numbers of them.

>you mean less enemies per arena
>smaller bestiary
Both. Less from generators, less waves in certain areas. Metal zombies don't exist.

>Thanatos can take multiple hits and is unfazed. You can even use his Assist infinite times.
I don't remember that. But I barely touched that mode.

>Does the roadmap expect you to get a certain amount of EXP during a stage (either by killing a lot of enemies before getting rid of a generator or whatever, and/or killing things via counter hits)?
I don't recall where I got the exp from. I'd just check what I had after a stage, do what I could and move on.

>Shame that the EXP you get during the Prologue is basically wasted (unless Thanatos gets it when you get all the chips).
You'll get so many millions in minutes on stage 7 you'll never consider another source ever again.

>Is this a tip for whenever I get him, or is this part of the roadmap? The run I did was mostly to see if it was possible to beat everything with relative ease without the need to grind even once
You won't touch his exp requirements without grinding.

>You can use the lock-on thing to stun the big robot that Siela summons, and when I attacked the robot, my next hit was a counter hit.
I think I mentioned this earlier.

>Though it seems the strongest attack you can use is Breakdown, since Ground Zero has a bit longer startup
That's true.

>Though not sure if resetting the string via lock-on cancel has better DPS (for enemies that are open to this). You can still use Breakdown once the enemy's HP is low enough to finish it off.
You can turn on enemy life in the options menu if you want to see what's the most effective.

>depends on the context
Makes sense.

>huge numbers of them
Like in Stage 4.

>Less from generators, less waves in certain areas. Metal zombies don't exist.
So yeah, by all accounts, it sounds easier than the US version. Also, you mean the zombies that appear in Side B?

>don't remember that
Could it be that the game is still being glitchy since I unlocked it? But I have restarted normally a few times without save states to skip any of the menus. It still happens.

>You'll get so many millions in minutes on stage 7 you'll never consider another source ever again.
I mean for helping out on runs such as the one I did. Earlier Ground Zero.

>You won't touch his exp requirements without grinding.
Yeah, I saw the EXP tables. Insane.

>mentioned this earlier
I don't doubt it, but not to me. I haven't read Page 1 and 2 of this topic yet.

>You can turn on enemy life in the options menu if you want to see what's the most effective.
It's already active, but tests will come later. I can say that Ground Zero + a full string against Stage 12's boss apparently deals slightly more damage per opening compared to 3x Ground Zero. But the thing is, your attacks can somehow whiff.

>Like in Stage 4.
Yeah. If you're going for ranks you need Malice there anyway. If not, you don't need to fight them.

>Also, you mean the zombies that appear in Side B?
Yeah. They stay the same.

>Could it be that the game is still being glitchy since I unlocked it?
No idea.

>I mean for helping out on runs such as the one I did. Earlier Ground Zero.
In that case it would help.

>I don't doubt it, but not to me
I think I started typing about it in response to something you asked about counters but deleted it because that kind of counter I consider a separate subject. It's weird and doesn't make sense, and is also kind of useless.

You can get the same thing to happen with enemies electrocuted by Despise and Avenger.

>I can say that Ground Zero + a full string against Stage
>can whiff
I've had that happen many times. Not sure what causes it.

It's a public holiday here tomorrow so I'm going to work on a counter list. How long this will take will depend on how bad my memory is. Already I can't remember clearly if Badbh's left or right arm swipe is the faster one.

I want to list the opportunity windows too but I can't remember them all exactly. Might have to do some tests.

Quick question, Birdman. I assume that for the Stage 7 method to work well, you need to one shot metal soldiers with a counter hit. But I can't do that yet. So the question is, which stage is a good place to get ATK upgrades?

And one more thing. Since I have to bring Thanatos with me (in this... baby form), it means I have to give up a Legion slot. Which is the best to bring? Blasphemy, or Malice?

I'm currently figuring out which are the mark monsters, and which are the best to take down. And also trying to get good enough to consistently no damage the Stage to get an AAA+ rank.

>one shot counter
Using Ground Zero, yes.

>where to get atk upgrades
Can't remember. I know a few stages have them sitting there. You shouldn't need too much.

>Legion slot taken by Baby
Blasphemy is best for the stage, Malice for the boss. Stage is easily doable with Malice and letting Seig do the heavy lifting from what I remember. That's something I'd need to check.

>And also trying to get good enough to consistently no damage the Stage to get an AAA+ rank.
I think there are some birds in the area right before the boss that drop green soul.

I can't find a list of every enemy name for my counter list so I'll probably just make them up.

I found this topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/562317-chaos-legion/73672622

Post #4. Though there's some talk further down about whether some stat ups exist or not, so it may not be accurate. Not sure if any of the docs in post #2 can help you.

>Blasphemy for the stage
>Malice for the boss
>stage is still doable with Malice
Yeah, Malice can melt the boss' health bar with Sniper Mode. Just wondering if Blasphemy could come in handy to get a lot of kills (one of the requirements) fast, though you'd still do part or most of that while countering the soldiers. I'll see for myself when I get enough ATK upgrades.

EDIT: I just remembered, the ranking system also takes into account remaining Soul. So using Sniper Mode might not be the best idea.

Also, I have concluded which are the most (seemingly) convenient Mark monsters to kill. All that matters now is getting a few more ATK upgrades in order to one-shot the metal zombies.

>birds
Good point.

I'll get back to you on the other points later.

>some talk
I don't even remember participating in that.

Whatever that person is missing must be one of the secret ones.

>So using Sniper Mode might not be the best idea.
This boss might give some back. But I don't recall using Sniper Mode in my runs. The enemies likely interfere. Jump slashing the eyes is probably just as good. Depends on the boss time. I think you have enough time to wait for it to land though whether or not you can do enough damage is another matter.

This AAA+ farming method was not intended to be used until strong enough.

>Also, I have concluded which are the most (seemingly) convenient Mark monsters to kill.
I found some old notes that said on one stage some mark monsters changed and appeared to be random.

Getting back on old posts:

>don't need to fight them
Noted.

>this counter is a separate subject
I think it deals less damage than a regular counter, as well.

>same thing can happen with electrocuted enemies
That so? Guess it makes sense, thinking about it.

>going to work on a counter list
Good to see you still have access to the game.

On that note, I tried landing counter hits with Malice's regular shots, and they indeed deal significantly more damage than usual.

>which is the faster one
I think it's his left arm (our right).

>few stages have them sitting there
True. While looking for ways to get good at Stage 7 to get AAA+ Ranks, I noticed I could get at least 2 small ATK upgrades. One hidden behind a Blasphemy box, and a generator drops the other.

>shouldn't need too much
I actually needed to repeat the stage 4 times in order to be able to one shot the metal soldiers with Ground Zero.

>boss might give some back
It basically gives almost nothing. Used Sniper Mode to melt the remaining 3/4 health bar it had, and my Soul meter still didn't get fully replenished. I held the button for about 1.5 seconds (boss takes a devastating amount of damage from Malice), but still, what little the boss gives you was not enough to put me back to full.

So yeah, I won't be using Sniper Mode in the boss fight.

>randomized Mark monsters
I will keep that in mind, but so far, that hasn't been the case with Stage 7 Side B in particular.

------------------------------------------------

So, I finally got my first AAA+ Rank ever. I did the following:

- Started one shotting the metal soldiers with Ground Zero. The soldier closest to the spawn point (relatively speaking) was dealt with by waiting a few meters in front of where he spawns, making sure to block the second soldier's path via the invisible wall on the left. When killing the first soldier, I lured the second one towards me, trying to kill it before the first one fully respawned. With a bit of spacing, I could counter the first respawn right after killing the second metal soldier. If the third metal soldier came along, I'd use the invisible wall to keep this one and the second one at bay, kill the first, and then lure the two towards me. With some luck I could kill both of them with a single strike in more than one occasion. Repeat until the generator gets tired.

NOTE: Soul meter gets maxed out by this point without fail. Got 2M+ EXP at this point.

- Destroy the generator. Time taken was 3 minutes and 15 seconds.  Generator is a Mark monster. 1 out of 10.

- Jump towards to where the target is to save time. Make the target spawn and the metal soldiers with axes as well. Get behind these metallic enemies with spikes.

- Kill these soldiers with Sniper Mode, as they're Mark monsters. I... forgot how many there were, but I think I had 7 Mark monsters eliminated by this point.

- Kill any birds in the off-chance that I get hit too much. Otherwise, killing the target will restore HP back to full if you took 1 or 2 hits.

- One shot the target with the shield via a counter. Think I took about 30 seconds to get all of this done.

- Rush to where the target is (the one with the shield). Bait an attack and one shot it via a Ground Zero counter. Spent less than 20 seconds on this.

- Begin countering more metal soldiers until the generator tires out again. There wasn't a very nuanced strategy to go about it, I was just careful to not execute an attack when I knew an incoming soldier wasn't far enough to hit me during the recovery period of Ground Zero. Think I had 3M-4M EXP by this point.

- Approach the generator and summon Malice when said generator and the metal soldiers with axes appear. This (along with the initial shots some of the legions do when attempting to enter Sniper Mode) should knock the soldiers on their backs, giving you ample time to kill the tired generator. If I'm not mistaken, I had about 7 and a half minutes. Target time is 15 minutes, but for some reason you don't get a perfect ranking if you finish it in 11 minutes or so. They should have been more clear about this. I think this generator is also a Mark monster so 8 out of 10.

- Kill the metal soldiers with Sniper Mode.

- Enter the narrow path for the next scenario. Kill the soldiers via counters, or if there are a lot of them and they're not tightly grouped, double jump and reposition.

- Use Malice's Assist against the big robot. After some time, use Ground Zero. It will attempt to retaliate, so back out. After it uses the tackle, use the Assist again. This should kill it.

- Proceed and jump to where the cannons are for some easy and quick kills. Destroy the generator as well, which is a Mark monster. 9 out of 10, and at this point, you should have 115 or so kills, and you need 130. So kill the metal soldiers further ahead with either Malice's Sniper Mode or counters. But first, destroy the rest of the cannons. I suppose counters are recommended, so as to not waste too much Soul and have it maxed out for the target ahead.

- Monitored my kills. Rushed immediately to the final target once I killed my 130th enemy (though I suppose I could also leave it at 129 or 125, then kill the last Mark monster *which is the target* and the lizards accompanying the boss).

- Killed the target with Sniper Mode. There were some soldiers approaching, but summoning Malice and some of the shots knocked them back. 10 out of 10 Mark monsters and kill count met. 9:34 minutes if I recall correctly. Onto the final boss.

- Killed some lizards to max out the Soul meter for the requirement. After the shockwave, I jumped over it and immediately summoned Malice (happened to kill every lizard without them respawning), and spammed triangle (not Sniper Mode, owed to the previous inconvenience with poor Soul returns). Destroyed the shell quickly and killed the boss soon after.

Final time was 10:18 minutes. Got my first AAA+ Rank and got 20M EXP to boot. Awesome. I happen to have 2 EXP Gems (XL), each of them worth 5M EXP, so that's 30M EXP, plus all the other gems I had. Could upgrade Force by 2 levels (Adult). Seemingly, I need to do this 3 more times to get Perfect Thanatos. And that's without all his other upgrades. Though I wonder if Adult Thanatos can help me speed up parts of the process a bit.

As I said, shame that I can't record a run of this, so I'll have to settle for something akin to GMG's run skeletons. Oh well. Hope the above paints a clear enough picture on what I did.

>Good to see you still have access to the game.
When my PS2 dies I probably will too.

>I will keep that in mind, but so far, that hasn't been the case with Stage 7 Side B in particular.
The testing I did back then was only on stage 2 I think. There are still fixed mark monsters.

>can Adult help
No.

>Hope the above paints a clear enough picture on what I did.
It does.

I just noticed that chaos legion is also on pc as well. So I really want to try this game so should I get ps2 Or pc version? Lastly are there any differences between ps2 and pc version of chaos legion???

PC version is a glitchy mess. Avoid.

Other than that Japanese PS2 is easier than US/EU versions.

It should work well on PCSX2

Birdman: >probably will too
Don't say that.

>stage 2
Alright. I'll remember this. Also, which Side?

>Adult can't help
Oh well.

NS: >PS2 or PC
As noted, PS2. Easily.

GN1: >work well
It looks like GoW is less demanding than this, so you probably need a decently good PC to run it well.

>Alright. I'll remember this. Also, which Side?
Don't remember.

It seemed to change if I skipped a certain group of enemies but I could never get a solid answer. But since it wasn't hard to get them just by killing most things it was never an issue.

>Adult
Really useless Legion.

>But since it wasn't hard to get them just by killing most things it was never an issue.
Makes sense. I just beat that stage (side B), and I had defeated more mark monsters than what was asked of me, so yeah, it shouldn't be a problem at all.

>Really useless Legion.
So I just got Perfect Thanatos. He really inflicts a lot of damage to all kinds of stuff. Though for mobs, the first attack of his Force move sends enemies flying to the other side of the map, so his other attacks miss. Though not sure if using him against mobs is the best idea. Which is still good, since it gives me a reason to switch to Blasphemy here and there. So Thanatos isn't the 'crushes every other offense in the game' thing that I feared he would be.

As for Adult, I noticed that his Force attack makes him teleport to where the enemy will be next, so his attacks don't miss as much. Though Perfect Thanatos may still have the advantage for packing a lot more power, but I didn't max out Adult's Attack to compare.

Also, how much use do you get out of Ignorant Masses? Seems like a powerful nuke, but it costs a LOT of Soul.

-----------------------------

Replayed a few stages with Thanatos, and he's certainly very powerful, but not as strong as I initially pictured him to have been. I even beat the final boss on my first try.

I'm willing to play the game again, but this time, I want to focus on Blasphemy (getting its Assist earlier than my previous run, to be precise).

How does the game hold up under no upgrade conditions? Figure most things would be a nightmare, but only because I haven't fully learned them yet.

>sends enemies flying to the other side of the map
Immediately unsummon then resummon. His full cycle is best on heavies, generators and bosses.

>So Thanatos isn't the 'crushes every other offense in the game' thing that I feared he would be.
He still is. At max power those enemies you sent flying won't survive. I think the only thing that will is those metal guys. I remember them taking two Perfect hits to kill.

>his Force attack makes him teleport to where the enemy will be next, so his attacks don't miss as much.
But he is totally vulnerable while Perfect is invincible.

>Also, how much use do you get out of Ignorant Masses?
Not much. You only get 5 uses and takes a while to build up. Never found it that great.

>How does the game hold up under no upgrade conditions? Figure most things would be a nightmare, but only because I haven't fully learned them yet.
Gets pretty tough in later levels like stage 11 where Malice with no atk and only two units can't beat back fast spikes. Blasphemy assist remains king.

>Immediately unsummon then resummon.
Oh, duh. Of course.

>full cycle is best on heavies, generators and bosses.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that as well.

>He still is.
Can he cover anything and everything? Including AAA+ ranks?

>But he is totally vulnerable while Perfect is invincible.
Wait, he is? I didn't notice. Though I assume you mean when attacking. In that case, yeah, Perfect is better in every way.

I tried using it on Victor's shockwave attack. Not only is he impervious to damage, it seems he deals even more damage than Sieg (assuming you land all 3 counters).

...Insane.

>Gets pretty tough in later levels like stage 11 where Malice with no atk and only two units can't beat back fast spikes.
Yeah, that sounds very difficult. I'll still try it.

>Blasphemy assist remains king.
Good to know.

>Can he cover anything and everything? Including AAA+ ranks?
For the most part, yes.

Right now the time he doesn't work as effectively is when you need to take down a lot of fast spikes. Like in the side B stage 3 boss fight.

>Though I assume you mean when attacking
Yes. He's a sitting duck.

>I tried using it on Victor's shockwave
Like this?

>for the most part
>not 100% of the time
I can live with that.

>can't clear fast spikes effectively
Should've known these would be a problem.

>Like this?
Yes, exactly. I don't even remember seeing that video on your channel. Do you have stuff not listed in a playlist?

Attacking with Sieg is also something I didn't think of. Mostly because I haven't got the timing down for the counter window.

>Do you have stuff not listed in a playlist?
Not that I know of. Everything should be set to public.

Nevermind. It seems I did watch the video, as evidenced by a red line under the video. So that means I... forgot.

On a side note, I got AA+ on everything in Stage 2 Side B, but only got an AAA rank (not AAA+). Why is that?

As far as I know it means in one or more of those categories you didn't do well enough. It's usually time or boss time.

You can never repeat the prologue stage. You have to AAA+ it first time if you care about seeing it in your records. I was never able to do this with Arcia. Even though I beat the stage time it was only by a few seconds and I never got AAA+.

So I assume it wants you to do even better but the game doesn't explain this.

Birdman wrote:As far as I know it means in one or more of those categories you didn't do well enough. It's usually time or boss time.

You can never repeat the prologue stage. You have to AAA+ it first time if you care about seeing it in your records. I was never able to do this with Arcia. Even though I beat the stage time it was only by a few seconds and I never got AAA+.

So I assume it wants you to do even better but the game doesn't explain this.

How is Arcia in general compared to Siege? Can you break down her combat mechanics? I do remember unlocking her when I beat the game ages ago, she had kicks and dual pistols. Really cool but I never ran thru the game with her.

PS: I started my replay today and just beat stage 3, unlocked my GOAT: bomb legion

Arcia is very limited.

She has kicks for organic and guns for metal. You have to switch modes to use guns.

In Kick Mode she has a 5 hit string, a Stinger and a launcher. Her dodge is similar to Sieg's but can't cancel recovery into dodge. She starts with double jump and her air attack is a kick that works similarly to Sieg's delayed air attack in that hits multiple times. Hers can hit on the way up too.

In Gun Mode she can shoot as fast as you can mash and has auto aim to a degree on anything in her field of vision. Holding shoot will go into a free aiming mode like Malice's Sniper Mode.

Dodge changes to a side flip. It's completely invincible and can be chained infinitely but if you shoot you lose all invincibility.

Lie Down is a state where lies on her back and shoots upward. There are a few ways to enter this state. From guns press something and she'll fall back. From the launcher kick in Kick Mode, I think you hold whatever button switches and she'll instantly transition. Energy Bullet finishes in this state.

Energy Bullet is a special move. Shoots all around her then fires an energy ball straight ahead.

In the air she has two attacks in Gun Mode depending on whether you single or double jump.

She's fun at first but quickly becomes boring.

>As far as I know it means in one or more of those categories you didn't do well enough. It's usually time or boss time.
Yeah, it definitely can't be HP or Soul. Those were full. I got AAA+ ranks on Stage 7 by simply meeting the kill count and mark monster requirements (going above them wasn't necessary). And it seems the 'rating' (measured by percentages) on time completion must be at or below 75% (the lower the percentage, the better, but in other requirements it's the opposite) for you to get AA+ on these. And I got 60% or so in both. So this left me very confused.

Then I found a topic that stated they could only get an AAA rank despite getting AA+ on every requirement. He figured that using 'restart' basically prevented you from getting AAA+.

That is completely bizarre, since I have no recollection whatsoever of dying and using a restart.

However, I tried Stage 3 and got another AAA rank. The difference this time? I clicked on 'Return' in the main menu since I had done something wrong. Then right after doing so, and when I completed the stage, I got the AAA rank. After completing the stage again without pressing 'Return', and getting slightly worse times? AAA+ rank.

So it seems the guy was right. Not sure if dying affects this, but Return definitely does from my experience.

>You have to AAA+ it first time if you care about seeing it in your records. I was never able to do this with Arcia.
It's a bit odd how the prologue is in any way difficult (slightly or moderately or whatever) to get this rank. Unless Arcia performs worse than Sieg with just Adult Thanatos.

>Even though I beat the stage time it was only by a few seconds and I never got AAA+.
From my observations, it seems you need to go way beyond a difference in seconds. So if the target time is 5 minutes, you must finish it in 3 minutes and 45 seconds (or 44 seconds, still not completely sure if it must be exactly 75% and nothing more, or if 74% is the absolute limit).

I'm going to attempt to get a few more AAA+ ranks. I feel I'm learning more quicker about how to solve a problem (read: any given scenario) better with this. Even if I don't get all the best ranks on every stage (impossible as noted), the knowledge I'm getting from this is pretty valuable, and that's what matters to me at present. That said, I'd also need to do this for Side A stages as well, since I only have access to Side B stages at the moment.

Also, one observation that is not exactly related to the game or even gaming in general... is how certain English speakers type stuff based on how the word sounds, not so much how it's written. For example, Seig vs Sieg. Or in other examples, their vs there. In the latter example, the words are more different than just having one vowel swapped, yet it's a common enough mistake.

>restart or retry affecting rank
Maybe. I don't do either so I can't say for certain. But I know that I've still received AAA after beating all requirements. There's a certain percentage you have to reach and I'm pretty sure it's time and boss time. Every time I got AAA+, I always improved on those two times and got the AAA+.

>Arcia vs Sieg prologue
They have different AAA+ requirements so it's not an issue of ability. I can do it the Japanese version but not EU. I think they didn't test it properly or typed in the wrong number. Same for her stage 5 boss.

>For example, Seig vs Sieg
I can never remember how to spell CL names. I usually have to search them but they're not English names so its OK.

>their vs there
Any English speaker who makes this mistake is a degenerate.

I'm curious, is this game good? Because I always heard it sucks.

> does Chaos Legion suck
There's one guy here who will convince you it's the best game ever made.

Listen to him. He is very dangerous.

Birdman: >But I know that I've still received AAA after beating all requirements.
Another theory I have that could change my previous views on what I stated about this is the possibility of not being able to get AAA+ on your first go. If you remember that this is not a thing, then perhaps more testing is in order. If not, then I can do a couple more stages, as there are several I have not completed yet (though Stage 7 and the final boss are already done *not that the latter matters*).

>improved on those two times and got the AAA+
For me it was the opposite. Got slightly worse times, and still got the AAA+.

Bizarre. Unless what I said earlier (or the theory) is true.

>not an issue of ability
To clarify, I don't doubt this is the case. Would be very silly of me to even suggest that this is the problem. Just wondering why they made it in any way hard to get it, given that it's the prologue.

>didn't test properly or typed the wrong number
Given that this issue apparently repeats itself in other stages, it could very well be the former. But that's still not conclusive evidence to disregard the latter.

>not English names
It's okay, that's precisely why I used the other example.

Zapan: >heard it sucks
Oh boy, that's quite a dangerous statement to use in this topic.

But yes, it is a great experience. I do not regret spending a single second learning this game. And you should stop listening to whoever said this.

Raeng: >best game ever made
Even in tier lists, no game deserves to even be in the same list (let alone tier). That's how good the game is.

NOTE: Play it.

>Because I always heard it sucks.
Leave your address here please.

>not being able to on your first go
Even if meeting the requirements? I don't remember if I got any on my first go.

>For me it was the opposite. Got slightly worse times, and still got the AAA+.
Then could it be like DMC1 where you can make up for falling short in other areas?

>Oh boy, that's quite a dangerous statement to use in this topic.
Well, he only heard this from the mechanically blind SCUM. He has not committed the unforgivable sin yet.

>That's how good the game is.

Well, maybe not that it sucks, but that it's not that great. How good is it compared to Astral Chain, since that's supposed to be its spiritual successor or something?

Also, is the PC version worth it, or is it better to play it on emulator?

>but that it's not that great
And they're still wrong. Anything other than my opinion on CL is wrong. My word is irreproachable. Consider it the law.

>How good is it compared to Astral Chain
They're completely different.

>PC version
Terrible. Avoid it even if it's your only option. It's glitchy and sometimes an attack will hit like 20 times.

Birdman: >Even if meeting the requirements?
That's what I think. At least on your first go on any given save file. And Side A completion should not affect Side B completion. Obviously.

>Then could it be like DMC1 where you can make up for falling short in other areas?
Interesting idea. I don't know yet whether that's the case or not, but I don't remember ever getting AAA on Stage 7. Maybe because I had already beaten it (by farming ATK upgrades until I was strong enough to one shot the metal zombies)? Then when I wanted to get the AAA+, I could get it with no problems (read: AAA was nowhere to be seen, since I had already beaten the stage once)? That would strengthen my theory. And like I said on my stage 7 coverage, I didn't go above the non-time requirements that much. At best I may have killed 11 mark monsters instead of the required 10, and 135 monsters (stopped at 130 *the target*, destroyed the generator *131* and I killed 4 lizards *135*). That was usually the case for all the times I got AAA+ to get EXP for Thanatos. In fact, I didn't even know AAA was even a thing until I tried getting AAA+ on Stage 2. But I digress.

>Well, he only heard this from the mechanically blind SCUM.
True. In that case it's understandable.

>the Force is strong
Just how it is. And my earlier statement needs an addendum. I do have a regret. Not having played this game earlier.

>the law
Just so. Decades of experience. To make a more familiar comparison, Zapan, Birdman would be the GMG to CL's GoW. There is no better person to discuss about the game's mechanics than him.

Zapan: >Astral Chain
I imagine their gameplay is not similar enough (beyond summoning systems) to be able to do direct comparisons. Suppose they both excel in different areas, so they're great in different ways.

>PC or emulator
The latter if there's no way for you to play on console. There is no question about it.

--------------------------------------

Here are the results of a small test I did. First things first, the rating for stage time must indeed be 74% or below if you want to get AA+ on this. I assume it must be the case for boss clear as well, since at 76% I wasn't able to get AA+.

Stage 4 testing (as noted, I have already completed this stage). Here are my results after completion:

1. Stage Clear:
- Target: 9:50.
- Record: 6:45 (68%).

--- Result: AA+.

2. Boss Clear:
- Target: 1:40
- Record: 1:05 (65%).

--- Result: AA+.

3. Smash Count:
- Target: 200.
- Record: 254 (127%).

--- Result: AA+.

4. Special Monster:
- Target: 19.
- Record: 21 (110%).

--- Result: AA+.

5. Life:
- Target: 1000.
- Record: 1000 (100%).

--- Result: AA+.

6. Soul:
- Target: 1100.
- Record: 1100 (100%).

--- Result: AA+.

Rank: AAA+.

Using a save state to load from the boss. Delaying kills as needed. We'll focus on the time requirements for now. Refer to the target times above (so I don't have to copy and paste again) for reference.

1st test:

1. Stage Clear: 6:56 (70%), AA+.
2. Boss Clear: 1:16 (76%), AA.

Rank: AA+.

2nd test:

1. Stage Clear: 6:55 (70%), AA+.
2. Boss Clear: 1:15 (75%), AA.

Rank: AA+.

3rd test:

1. Stage Clear: 6:55 (70%), AA+.
2. Boss Clear: 1:14 (74%), AA+ (this confirms that the Boss Clear time must also be 74% of the target time or below).

Rank: AAA+.

So far it seems my theory could be correct. But to confirm it, I'll need to tackle a stage I haven't played through yet. I'll make save states to learn the stage, and load it from the beginning to attempt to get an AAA+ rank. If I get an AAA rank instead, then repeat the stage, and attempt to reproduce my results (mostly by attempting to do slightly worse, so as to leave no room for doubt, so I don't have to do THAT well on my first attempt at getting an AAA+), then that would mean my theory is definitely correct.

But I'll do that later.

Another update. I haven't beaten another stage, but I went back to stage 4.

Tried to perform worse in the mark monster part (exactly what's asked of me *19, so 100%*). Also killed 2 less monsters (252 *126%*).

Stage Clear was also worse. 7:22 (74%). Boss Clear was also 1:14 (74%). Both AA+. As noted, both need to be at 74% or below if you wish to get AA+ on both.

Final rank was AAA+. Deliberately tried to push both time requirements to 74% (the absolute limit, anything past that nets you a worse rank). Still didn't get an AAA rank.

So yes, it looks like there's a high chance that what I said earlier about AAA+ being locked behind a second try per save file could be right.

EDIT: Another update. I brought down the kill count down to 202 (101%). Apparently I killed one more mark monster than intended (20 out of 19 *105%*). Oh well. Time requirements were at 74%. Still got an AAA+ rank.

EDIT 2: Did Stage 5. Here are the results:

1. Stage Clear:
- Target: 14:00.
- Record: 8:07 (57%).

--- Result: AA+.

2. Boss Clear:
- Target: 0:55
- Record: 0:25 (44%).

--- Result: AA+.

3. Smash Count:
- Target: 120.
- Record: 129 (107%).

--- Result: AA+.

4. Special Monster:
- Target: 14.
- Record: 14 (100%).

--- Result: AA+.

5. Life:
- Target: 1000.
- Record: 1000 (100%).

--- Result: AA+.

6. Soul:
- Target: 1100.
- Record: 1100 (100%).

--- Result: AA+.

Rank: AAA+.

I had a feeling I had beaten this stage earlier. This must have been one of the stages that had Thanatos' chips or a Spiritual Gem. But if that's the case, then my theory falls apart, since that means I already cleared Stage 2 for a Gem, yet I got an AAA rank.

I'll do Stage 13 again just to make sure. But I think we're back to square one. What I said earlier about Retry/Return affecting rank can't be it if you never use either, but still get AAA.

What a mystery.

I'll do a test on the Japanese version at some point. Probably the weekend.

It's easy to get AAA+ first time. I'll do it on the Prologue stage and reset if I fail.

I just did Stage 9 (another stage that I'm sure I haven't beaten yet). Got an AAA+ rank. I was one second short of getting 75% of Stage Clear (would have failed if I did so).

So that means my 'first try' theory is incorrect.

Going to use Retry and Return (dying on purpose and exiting to the menu). On Stage 4.

EDIT: Done. Here are the results (again, refer to post 197 for references on the target time for this stage):

Using Return (from the menu, at the very start of the stage):

Stage Clear: 6:52 (69%), AA+.
Boss Clear: 0:45 (45%), AA+.
Smash Count: 239 (119%), AA+.
Special Monster: 21 (110%), AA+.
Life: 1000 (100%), AA+.
Soul: 1100 (100%), AA+.

Rank: AAA.

Using Retry (dying):

Stage Clear: 6:53 (70%), AA+.
Boss Clear: 0:45 (45%), AA+.
Smash Count: 237 (118%), AA+.
Special Monster: 21 (110%), AA+.
Life: 1000 (100%), AA+.
Soul: 1100 (100%), AA+.

Rank: AAA.

Using an Item (HP in this case):

Life 1000 (100%), AA (not AA+).

The other requirements were all AA+.

Rank: AA+.

We already know that in other instances, I got relatively worse requirements than the above, yet they were still AA+, and despite that, I got an AAA+ with said worse requirements.

In conclusion: Time requirements must be 74% of their target time, and Retry/Return definitely affect the rank you get, same as using an item, but this is less severe than dying or returning to the 'Intermission'. Whether this is your first go at the stage or not is irrelevant.