The interview is interesting. He has some really good ideas.
Shame that they don't end up working how he wanted them to, which is kind of weird because if he went to this much effort to think them up trying to make something unique, you'd think he'd make sure it worked.
What I mean is, the legions don't come off as individual as he seems to think (to the point that the Sieg is essentially a nobody) and they get utterly decimated on later stages to the point you wouldn't even consider summoning them for a brawl.
You want to summon in quick bursts, not just let them run wild. While that looks cool and all, they can't dodge, block, coordinate themselves in any way, or even tell which enemy is a type they're strong against, or any sort of targeting priorities. All of this is managed by the player.
They still don't really have dodging or blocking even then. I mean recalling them to avoid an attack. Arrogance is the only legion that 'blocks' but it's not really blocking, rather absorbing damage to fire back as a beam.
I wonder what the game would have been like if the legions had that much autonomy? Personally, I don't think it would be as good. It would make the game more random and take control out of the players hands.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Posts : 736 Join date : 2019-01-17 Location : Ohio
I loved this game when I was a kid, it’s been on my list of things to re-buy but I never have. Still remember a magazine I had that said “if you loved Devil May Cry, you’ll love Chaos Legion”. And I remember thinking “...what?”. Good times.
I think CL also suffered from god hand graphics syndrome. The thing that took me so long to get into CL was how bland it looked. God hand is ugly, but has awesome art direction. Everything visually in CL that I have seen puts me off, but the gameplay keeps me in.
Yeah I've seen that complaint as well though the colors didn't bother me at all. I actually like this drab color scheme and it contrasts well with the pale blue of the legions and the item pickups but not too much as they're also quite subdued and don't look out of place.
If you look at Haunting Ground, RE4, PN03 and GH you see these same colors (one of the reasons they are favs of mine) and they all had the same complaints. Haunting Ground not as much, probably because I don't think many people played it. RE4 was too brown, PN03 too white, etc. I know some of these games share assets but wouldn't be surprised to find they all did.
One thing I don't like in CL, though it's not a huge deal, is that some stages have a really bright, white sky and it hurts my eyes if I look at it for too long.
Damn, the DMCV board is really showing its stupidity lately. No doubt you've seen the Army of Zin and Chaos Legion topics.
People making claims like how CL is a 'low budget DMC' yet not being able to explain why.
Getting told I'm biased for daring to say anything positive about it, yet over the years I've been the first to talk flaws. It's just that the flaws most people are talking about are bullshit based on their lack of knowledge.
Notice when I said to Alexx to PM to talk CL seriously, and that guy popped up and told him not to do it and that I'm biased? That's happened before. Not regarding CL, but for Lollipop Chainsaw and Knack 2.
But it's not the games I'm talking about. I've had someone get all mad and weird when I've suggested someone to PM me to talk serious. It's like these know-nothings are actually scared that that discussion is being taken away from them and they won't be able to convince someone that the game is like they claim it is. They get all triggered about it.
It's bizarre. It's like these people have a personal stake in whether or not a game has depth or is good or whatever. Like something bad will happen to them.
Then again, maybe it will. There is an ancient horror, that the very whisper of, strikes fear into the hearts of all message board dwellers.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total
I've been messing around with Baby Thanatos on my no upgrade file.
It really sucks that when you evolve Thanatos to Perfect, you can never use his 3 previous forms again (Baby, Adolescent, and Adult). Sure, they're a million times weaker in every way, but they're different, or at least Baby is. I've barely used these forms.
Without upgrading, Baby only gets like 2 seconds of its assist (The Ignorant Masses) which slows time for enemies and at the same time sends out homing fireballs. Baby only fires two. They still cause the enemy to launch though.
The main difference is in their force attacks. For Baby, he will vanish then appear high above the enemy, and drop directly down on them. For most enemies, this is their head.
This actually causes a stun on some enemies. I haven't made a full list yet, but I'm working on it. So far it works on most light enemies, and stuns them for about 2.5, maybe 3 seconds.
It's normal attack has it hover near and enemy and smash into them 3 times quickly.
It's bad in groups and will get destroyed unless you trigger its force attack constantly which gets it out of harm's way.
I have tons to say but I'll post again after I've made some more notes.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total
What I need to do is create a separate file where I max out Baby Thanatos. He only changes form if you level up Force.
I want to max his attack to see if it has any influence on what can be stunned with his force attack.
Found out something I didn't know today, due to barely touching this form. If you let him do his regular 3 hit attack, you can press force before it ends and it'll link straight into the force drop attack.
Also, if you launch an enemy, then force, it will cause the enemy to be smashed down. I put him in passive so he wouldn't do his regular attack while I was launching.
Funny how the weakest, most useless form is turning out more interesting than the final one.
I just ordered this, should have it by the end of the week. Hoping to start playing it shortly after, will reference this thread. Nice. English version?
I ask because in the English version they really ramped up the difficulty with enemy count, strength, exp requirements, etc. The Japanese version is easier, but more balanced.
In fact, due to the changes, some of the rank requirements in the English versions are weird. Arcia has two stages where AAA+ isn't possible. Feels like they didn't test them at all.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Look at this comment from a random from GFAQs regarding CL.
Saw a playthrough of the game after seeing this thread. The game had serious flaws, but the concept was great. It has a LOT of potential and honestly needs a remake. Badly. Like Parasite Eve.
Such authority. I mean he DID see a playthrough on Youtube after all. More than enough to know all the game's mechanics, flaws, and possible potential, and know for sure it needs a remake! Who are we to mess with THAT???
This particular level of stupid should be framed in gold and displayed.
Do you prefer the Japanese version then? Kinda, but I played the Eng release for most of my time with it.
I post how many times that in CL, you can defeat enemies fast if you know what you're doing. I'll admit early game can be tough but it's nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be.
It's like they skip that, and go on to post all these so-called flaws that basically equate to not really knowing what they're doing/trying to play the game like some other game (like how I tried to play old GoW1 like a ninja by dodge rolling everywhere and barely used grabs).
Why not say, 'Oh hey, can you elaborate on that? Sounds good' or, 'What do you suggest? I'll give it a try'.
That's what I always do when I hit a roadblock. I seek out the authorities on the matter and see if I'm doing something wrong rather than keep complaining and ignoring all advice.
Posts : 3968 Join date : 2017-07-01 Age : 31 Location : Netherlands
Because that would impart a fault on their side. It is much easier to say "no, you are wrong. I played correctly" than to admit they have no clue as to what they are doing wrong. They are children, not mature people. It stings, because people like these can run the reputation of a perfectly fine game through the mud, but it is best to just ignore it. This isn't a battle anyone can win outside of scaring them away.
Not gonna lie, CL has flaws. It's one of my favorite games of all time but I'm not blind to the issues. I'll make a list tomorrow of what I don't like. I do get why someone wouldn't like its type of gameplay though. It's just that A LOT of problems people have with it are due lack of knowledge or just bad play.
That's fine too, I went through some of the same shit when I first started actually, though I saw what needed to be done pretty quickly. It's when they stick by that limited experience as fact and act like they have a real stake in it that gets me.
You can still not like it even if you master it. I have no issue with that.
The enemies hit too hard, legions die too easily, can't avoid this, that takes too long, etc. It's all solvable but they would rather plug their ears.
But yeah, you've summed it up perfectly. There's really nothing more to say. I probably need to stop complaining in here lol.
Posts : 3968 Join date : 2017-07-01 Age : 31 Location : Netherlands
I saw it happen with Metal Gear Rising, Shinobi, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta and even Resident Evil 4 of late. People are ... weird. A game can be flawed and still good. I really like Devil May Cry but I'll be the first to admit the series has some serious controller-layout issues.
No worries about complaining, this place is as much a discussion forum as a 'safeheaven' to relax and unwind.
Here's a few flaws that immediately come to mind. I'll probably think up more as I type.
1 - Cannot repeat Side A stages after completing stage 12.
This activates Side B which gives all the previous stages different enemy layouts and are much harder. This doesn't bother me too much, but it puts pressure on the player to get the AAA+ rankings before stage 12. I can do them all easily, but the issue is the game doesn't tell you what's going to happen. It says Side B has opened up but not that Side A and those ranks are forever lost. Side B has it's own set of ranks that take over. I had to learn this the hard way and it pissed me off.
2 - Not being able to repeat the prologue stage EVER.
The prologue is the tutorial stage, and you have Adult Thanatos, so it's pretty easy. The AAA+ rank is actually not so easy. That's fine, but the flaw is the game doesn't tell you that you can never repeat this stage. I don't really care that it's for a story reason. A warning would have been nice.
3 - On stage 11 you fight Victor, but when you repeat the stage, the boss will be multiple waves of tough enemies. You can never fight him here again. Again, story-wise, it makes sense, but you get no warning.
4 - Some legions become obsolete later in the game. Stuff like this is near unavoidable in almost every action game. You'll always have something that winds up being the best.
5 - A few enemies don't have much to them, and are just dumb to fight. Some don't have counter hits, while others have a few moves and they can all be countered. I don't mind if an enemy has some moves that can't be countered, but it would still be nice if they did. Some just feel like leftovers.
Take this guy. I love this enemy. I'll give an example of a good enemy vs a bad one.
Sorry for the size.
Anyway this guy has a few things he can do.
At mid-long range, he will run at you with his head down, and up close he'll do a slam attack or two different swipes, one for each arm. Many the new player was decimated by these, as he likes to clip you as you try to go around him.
He attacks depending on range, and everything he does has a counter hit. The swipes and slam are extremely dangerous to try to counter, as is the slam. On a new game those will near OHK you. His head is also a weak point, and if you hit it with an attack that has enough power, it causes a stun. You can infinitely do this with the jumping spin slash once you get a few points in attack power.
Other enemies, like this fool, have pretty much zero to them.
See that blade arm? All they can do is run up and slowly swing it once. No counter hit. Nothing. They aren't even strong. Feel really unfinished. You can see a huge difference between this guy and the previous one. They are kinda durable, but for some reason every time you encounter them, which isn't many times, for the most part it's only them. No mixing them up with other enemy types. I think there's only one part of stage 7 where you'll fight them with some other enemy types and you can just run past them.
6 - The English versions have some balance issues due to every aspect being increased to make the game harder. In two of Arcia's stages, you can never get the AAA+ rank.
7 - Mission select any time would be nice. As it is now, you have to wait until after stage 9.
8 - Here is a big one. You can cancel recovery of sword attacks by jumping. This is better than dodge rolling in a lot of cases because in addition to avoiding attacks, you gain access to both of Sieg's jumping attacks (as well as double jump which if done on an enemy is an attack, and Airblaze when you unlock them). You also have much more freedom of direction than a dodge roll.
But you lose the ability to JC if you learn a move from Flawed called Despise. Starts at 0:35.
See that back-flip type of move? That's done by pressing X (jump) after a sword slash, which means it takes over the ability to jump normally. Despise is NOT a bad move at all. When he kicks off of the enemy, it electrocutes them and any that touch them causing a stun. It also launches light enemies. It can get you out of trouble due to how it moves you backward, and I've even done it over enemies coming in from behind.
The issue is that it takes over JC, and that is always more useful. With Despise, you can only go one way, and can be hit if you land in enemy attacks. Enemies will not always be right in front of you.
There is a way around this, though it hurts just as much. You would have to not level up Flawed and lose double jump. So the flaw here is that it's not a different command. The Flawed legion is Flawed (gehehe). Makes sense I guess.
9 - When you double jump, you can't do the spin slash. I think you lose access to Airblaze too. Only the down slash is available. This makes no sense to me. It isn't about height, because all the air attacks can be done close to the ground too.
That's all I can think of right now. Here's what AREN'T flaws.
1 - Enemies doing too much damage. 2 - Legions dying too fast. 3 - Not liking the colors/graphics or whatever doesn't mean shit. I like the colors and I'm not biased, because I love the color schemes in RE4, P.N 03, and Haunting Ground. Look them up and you'll find they're all very similar.
Well, that turned into an essay fast lol.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Framing the situation to discredit me by claiming I'm 'triggered', for simply asking for clarification. Like I've always said, it's like some people have a personal stake in a game having 'depth' or not.
Deeper gameplay as in more combo variety. Not just one standard 5 button combo. It's comments like this that make me shake my head.
1. The translation's a bit crap. Kinda hard to understand some of the tutorials, as a result, but I'll get by.
2. Damn, the game's budget was so low that they couldn't even display buttons for the tutorials, based on your control scheme. Annoying to have to constantly go into the controls to remember which button I'm supposed to use.
3. What the fuck is the shift button? It's R1. So dodging is like DMC, a bit. (Type A control scheme)
Only played the first 2 levels. Game's pretty weird, but I'm liking it. I'm assuming it opens up as I go on?
I'm also considering trying the PC version, if possible, but I hear the game is incredibly buggy. Or should I try the Japanese version? Does the JP version have English subs, or menus? You mentioned that it was more balanced, and easier. I'm playing this on an emulator, so keep that in mind.
>tutorials Can barely remember them. Wouldn't be surprised if they said something weird though. Let me know.
>budget Yeah I assume it was low. I once read the reason the backgrounds are so bland is due to it using hardware designed to fit as many enemies onscreen as possible without slowdown. Never confirmed it though.
>dodge Pretty much. Don't know why they call it shift. Fall recovery is called Drop Evasion. It's odd, I'll agree.
>PC I wouldn't.
>Japanese No subs or anything.
I can really only respond to issues or observations. If I start giving out tips they probably won't end but I'll try some quick ones.
*The jump slash has two variations. A spin and a downward multi-hit. The spin can cause a knock down even on some tougher enemies that you wouldn't be able to stagger with regular sword attacks.
*The game has stats. After getting more attack power, you'll notice you'll be able to flinch certain enemies better than before.
*There are counter hits that work like fighting game counters, where you interrupt an enemy attack with your own. If you don't have the attack power for tougher enemies, you'll trade hits. This is the kind of thing that won't be apparent until it happens to you and you learn from it. Like if you see one of those tall ugly alien looking things running at you with it's head down, you can counter it, but at low stats you will trade and take heavy damage. There are tactics to get around this but I'll go into those if you end up sticking with the game.
*Roll or jump after attacks to cancel the recovery and reposition yourself.
*Don't let legions run wild. Summon in short bursts. Disband (unsummon) has i-frames on Sieg.
*Disband, assists startup, some special moves and dodge roll, all have i-frames.
*You gain special moves from the Enchant legion stat. At first, you will only be able to use them when that legion is equipped, but later you'll find an item that unlocks an extra tier of upgrades that lets you keep anything without equipping the legion.
*Use Malice's sniper mode (hold Triangle) to attack the metal tip atop monster generators to kill them super fast.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Good question, and one that isn't immediately clear first time through. I'll spare you most of the details and just give you what I do. Start with Enchant as that can give you extra slashes and bonus attack stats. If you have spare points get an extra Legion unit.
You want to keep Guilt equipped until you get your first spirit gem (the thing I described earlier that unlocks an extra tier of upgrades) so you can keep his stuff. Guilt and Malice are a good combo to keep until then because you're covering organic and metal and the enemies aren't that tough until later.
Alternatively, you can swap out Guilt for Blasphemy as soon as you get it. You'll lose Guilt's bonuses but Blasphemy's assist is so good even at low levels so upgrade that instead. Up to you. I'd stick with the first option though since it's your first run.
Depending on the legion, I might get a certain stat last. Like with Blasphemy, assist comes first, but legion units and defense come last because I never summon it. In general I do defense last because I don't let them get hit.
Last edited by Birdman on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total
In all honesty Birdman, I don't really think this title is holding my attention very well. The gameplay's functional, but there's something about the whole atmosphere and look of the game that just puts me off the whole thing. The best way I can describe it is that it just feels totally dead.
I really hope I'm not coming off as some close-minded asshole, here. I'm not trying to say the game is bad, and I'm not trying to claim that the game is too hard, or anything, it's just really uninteresting to me.
There's almost certainly a lot of stuff I'm not using.
A lot of the "generator" fights end up with me just using Malice to shoot at the metal tip from afar, or if it's bent over, I go in, and kill it myself with the basic sword attack.
Anyway, here are some other questions.
- How exactly do Counters work? Does it involve timing my attack to an enemy's attack, like in the DMC reboot? I seem to be doing something with Ogma when they roll at me, and I attack them. Is that the counter? - So I should just use my legions as burst damage, yes? When are the best times to summon, and dismiss them? - What exactly determines which air attack I use (Spin vs downward slash)? - How can I use my assists most effectively? E.g the properties, and their situational usefulness? - How can I get the most mileage out of my basic attack string? - Is there a way to cancel my action into a summon/dismiss?
>generator That is the most efficient method. Otherwise, you'll have to keep killing enemies until it gets tired and slumps over, dropping its defense to pretty much zero.
The idea though, is to be able to fight respawning enemies for exp, or just take the thing out and move on. I remember in the early days where this wasn't known. Absolute nightmare for a lot of players and was one of the main complaints.
>counters They work like fighting games. You attack at a certain point during the enemy's attack animation. It's not like MGR or Onimusha where you do a unique counter animation. In CL, like say, Tekken, your animation plays out fully.
There's no way to see the counter timing other than learning all enemy attacks. This is what I did. Now I can pop any of them as I please. Not all attacks can be countered though. You'll know a counter by this weird, squeaky sound effect, a brief hit-stop, and you'll see a different hit effect.
>ogma When it's rolling, either on the spot or when it's moving, it's open to a counter. As practice, try coming down on it with either of the jump slashes.
>legions as burst On earlier levels against weak enemies, it would be reasonably safe to let them fight, like against those green spiders or a few ogma. For more dangerous stuff like those tall guys, I'd lock on with Guilt and have them attack with their Force attack, and be ready to dismiss for when it takes a swing. You don't have to fight it this way. Just an example.
Here's an example for the stage 5 boss. I have other videos but they're so old I can't remember what happens in them.
>best time That really depends on the situation and enemies present.
>air attacks Can't believe I forgot to mention this! The down slash comes out if you delay a bit after you jump. Wait until just as you start to descend. The spin is when you slash immediately, but you can delay it slightly before it becomes a down slash. You can still hit small enemies near the ground with it, or use it while rising.
>effective assists Depends. There are a lot of examples and situations. I'll give you some quick, early game examples.
Guilt's assist is that forward dash. This is great as a safe counter hit due to assist i-frames. Take that tall guys dash. You can counter and go right through him without risk. At this point you won't have the attack power to pull off a counter with Sieg alone. It's fantastic as a counter against the stage two boss (big sword monster) when he dashes at you. Since it cuts through enemies, you can use it to position behind them.
Malice's assist is good for metal enemies like those stationary cannons. You can get nice, safe metal damage without having to summon or snipe since Malice is invincible while firing. It will launch small enemies, but isn't very useful in a game like this. The launch can be used for a simple knock down, but not something I would really do.
When you get a new legion let me know and we can go over possibilities.
>basic string This remains ever useful on organic enemies. You can link assists and other actions into it. The final hit, once you learn it, is a slash you can't recover from so be careful about committing to it.
>cancel to summon/dismiss The only thing you can cancel the recovery of is the basic sword string, minus the final hit. You can link into summon/dismiss though. Dismiss has good i-frames. Never use summon like this though as you'll just call the legions up into an attack.
Posts : 121 Join date : 2019-10-30 Age : 32 Location : Saint Louis, Missouri
>Lady is better Even without being fully realized (lacks her SMGs, not grappling around to foes/objects, not poledancing off KA impaled in the wall or floor into shots or flips, no DT for motorcycle attack access, etc.)? How nice for her.
I took your advice from the DOOM thread, Birdman. I've started a CL playthrough (English version). Playing via emulation on PC, but I do actually own a boxed copy for PC I got on eBay a while ago.
I'm enjoying the game so far. It's challenging, but I think I'm learning - tells on enemy attacks, what gives i-frames, etc. I remember playing this game as a kid, and giving up very early on. I think I rented it as I never owned it for PS2. I must have been around the age of 10 when I first played it - I would definitely not recommend this game to a child!
One thing I'm unsure of is how long it should take to kill the "generator" style enemies. I think I've figured out that their health will drop faster if you kill the enemies they spawn. However, with some of them, it still takes me an absolute age to kill them even when they're the only enemies on the map. I know about the organic and metallic enemy types, but I found using either of the first two legions was slow. Maybe I was doing something wrong.
I can't remember if it was Stage 3 or 4 I beat (the boss was 6 monsters - you fight one on it's own, then a pair, and then the last three together), but that's where I'm up to for now. Once I figured out I just had to jump to avoid their charging attacks the fight got a lot easier.
>generators They have super high defense. Use Malice in sniper mode (hold whatever the equivalent of triangle is) and aim at the metal spike on top of them. They'll go down super fast.
>that their health will drop faster if you kill the enemies Eventually they will stop spawning and enter a weakened state and will not produce any more enemies. When this happens you'll hear a weird whistling/screeching sound. The generator will be slumped over. In this state you can kill it in a few hits.
You have the choice to kill all the enemies for exp or kill the generator and remove all enemies tied to it.
>metallic enemy types There are also special types that only take real damage from legions. If you come across a transparent, stealth camo enemy, those are legion only. Summoned or assist will hurt them. They can be lightly hurt by Sieg's sword but it's barely noticeable. Fire effect hurts them too.
The generators are their own special type. The top spike is metal, and the main body is technically organic but with super high def.
>the boss was 6 monsters Stage 4.
>I just had to jump to avoid their charging attacks There's more tech for these guys. Let me know if you want me to post any.
Feel free to ask any and as many questions as you want. CL is my life.
> Malice in Sniper Mode I tried this! It was the first thing I thought of (I'm glad I watched a review of the game first where the sniping weak points were explained - definitely wouldn't have figured that out on my own). I'm wondering if there was a glitch and maybe the generators still had enemies to spawn, but stopped for whatever reason. It took me a few minutes to get rid of them, even aiming for the weak point. I think it was in Stage 2 or 3, there's an encounter with 5 generators all packed in next to each other.
> Tech for monsters I take it I'll be facing more of those then? Please do share, always interesting to learn new tech/strategies.
>sniper mode generators When you summon Malice for this purpose, have Sieg face to the left or right. This means the legions will appear in a vertical position, and all their shots will fire in a straight line. I like to do this for generators because if you have them facing forward in a horizontal line up, some of the shots will miss. More noticeable when you have the full number of legions.
>glitch >packed next to each other That sounds like stage 3. A large area just before the boss with 5 generators surrounded by those big guys.
If you didn't see any enemies you would have still seen the generators slumped over in their weakened state.
The only other thing I can think of is you aren't aiming at the metal directly. Malice's shots have a pretty large hitbox and it can appear you're hitting the metal when you're actually hitting the base just before the metal area starts.
Maybe only one shot was connecting due to this. Listen for a distinct sound of clanging on metal. And aim a little higher than the spike to avoid to the hitbox of your shots doesn't hit the bottom part.
Those things go down pretty fast even from a new game. I don't recall them taking long at all but thinking about it now, 5 of them and low level Malice. I might test it when I get home.
>tech Just let me know if any monsters give you trouble and I'll go over them as they come up.
>stage 4 bosses If they hit a wall while running they'll get stunned for a few seconds and take way more damage.
Wait by a wall and roll towards them just as they're about to hit.
Use Guilt's assist, which has i-frames just as they're about to hit the wall. You'll safely pass right through them. It's like a short, invincible dash and you'll get some counter hit damage.
If you want to be fancy, wait with your back to the wall and when they're close do the first hit of the sword combo at max range so the end of your sword connects for a counter hit, then either roll forward or link into Guilt's assist.
Later when you get more attack power and moves you can OHK counter them. When you come back with double jump you can just pop right over them.
>camo enemies They'll start appearing but never in huge numbers. Legions hurt them. The safest bet is to snipe them. Later you'll have more options like Blasphemy's assist.
>notes After you beat stage 9 you'll be able to replay all stages except the prologue. Once you beat stage 12 all previous levels will become Side B, with different enemy layout and rank requirements.
The jumping spin slash can knock down most small enemies. You'll find it particularly useful when you first encounter white spiders. These are just bigger versions of the green ones but when you encounter them at first they can tank the first two hits of your sword attacks. Jump spin at them to knock them down then do whatever.
If you have enough attack power this spin slash can stun the those big green guys if you hit them in the head.
You can turn on enemy life bars in the options menu. This can be useful for determining what's effective.
Played a little more last night. The Stage 5 boss took me a lot longer to beat than I'd like to admit... I ended up looking up some strats on YouTube and came across your Hard playthrough, Birdman! Smart move to stick to the sides when the boss uses the AoE blast attack. I tried jumping, rolling, just couldn't find a consistent way to avoid it... I didn't think the solution could be as simple as wait at the side of it. I also took the Shield legion instead of the Bows one, which was a huge pain in the neck as the gunner style enemies are weak to the bow projectiles, as I saw in your video. I was getting a bit frustrated knowing how much easier it would have been with the right Legion but I didn't quit, stuck it out and figured out I could just take out a couple of gunners the long way and then I'd have room to attack the boss without getting shot.
I got partway through Stage 6 when the emulator crashed so I decided to take a break then. Forgive me for not knowing the name, but what's the best strategy for the "bomber" type enemies (skinny blue metal things, fire a big yellow/orange bomb)? I kept forgetting they were there, and paid for it.
Was that the new game hard video? I'm pretty sure I did a new game video of that boss.
>just couldn't find a consistent way to avoid it...
Jump works. You just need to get the timing down. Always dodge towards the wave. Anything else will result in your dodge ending while still inside the wave.
Iframes on assists work but no point wasting a bar of soul when there are free ways to avoid it.
You can win just fine without using the sides. It just takes longer because you'll be avoiding more stuff.
That one is only useful when powered up. Usually I stick with Guilt and Malice, then at some point switch Guilt with Blasphemy, then Blasphemy or Malice with Perfect Thanotos.
That would be the optimal set up but of course you're free to use whatever.
One of the downsides to CL is how most legions become far less useful the further you get, and playing first time can really screw you over.
>skinny blue metal things, fire a big yellow/orange bomb
At that point in the game you want to use Malice and just shoot them. Summon or assist depending on safety. I remember on stage 6 they're always on higher ground like in the first area and the last, constantly firing down at you. I'd jump up and assist. Don't stay in one place while attacking them. Just assist and move. They might take two assists at this point. If it's safe to summon do that and snipe or shoot normally.
Like in the final area you'll get destroyed if you move in on the ground enemies while the cannons are bombing you from above. But you can jump up to where they are and they're sitting ducks. On the left side theres actually quite a large space up there and I think 3 bombers. You can summon safely though watch your range. Take them.out and secure this part then snipe the other 4 which are high up on the right side.
You can tell when they're about to fire. When idle they'll just hover and sort of wobble. When about to fire you'll see them stop and become completely still, and aim upward. Their bomb goes in a set arc. It doesn't have much range that's why you'll often find them positioned above. Later you'll encounter types that can move around.
When Sieg gains more attack power you can kill them with heavy hitting moves like Ground Zero and Breakdown.
I think it was New Game Hard, yes. Do you earn more XP in Hard mode?
Thanks for the tips. I've just got to the boss in Stage 7 and had another emulator crash - super frustrating. I thought this stage seemed like a big difficulty spike, but once I got my strategies down I got through it fairly quickly. It's surprising how many encounters you can win by hiding behind the generator and protecting yourself with Guilt. I've noticed the hitbox on Sieg's sword is pretty generous, so you can also do the falling slash (after the apex of a jump) to move and protect yourself at the same time. Useful!
I know you've played both the japanese and western versions - do you think the japanese seems more balanced? I know it has lower XP requirements for unlocks, which seems a godsend - I already need 1.5m XP for some upgrades and based on the speed I'm gaining XP at now, that's going to take a while. I'm assuming the balance changes in the western version are supposed to encourage you to repeat and grind missions later on. I'm really not a fan of that.
It already seems like some of the legions are less useful. I'm finding any mission where I don't take both Guilt and Malice is much harder. I've missed at least 1 Thanatos part (I didn't have the double-jump Legion with me when I needed it) so I'm going to have to do that stage again if I want it. I'm enjoying the combat but the design does seem to want to hassle players more than it needs to.
It's the same. If you want to get more exp, do counter hits and get higher ranks. Don't forget your exp gems.
Kind of. The extra exp requirements on the western version is stupid. Doesn't add anything to the game. The JP version could do with tougher enemies. It's far easier even on hard than the western releases. Ranking feels more balanced. I know they barely tested the western release if at all due to two levels being impossible to AAA+ with Arcia.
>hiding behind the generator and protecting yourself with Guilt
Ground Zero or anything that generates fire makes this better because it's a knockdown on most small enemies so you essentially have a huge flaming object protecting you. Stage 7's narrow hallways make this possible.
This won't help much with exp but it's great for stats. You'll be able to get the max possible on Side A.
>Guilt and Malice is much harder.
And what's worse is Guilt loses use the further you get. You start getting more than one enemy type so Guilt won't hurt them as much and will just get destroyed. Side B introduces metal zombies which walk right through Guilt. The end set up you'll find yourself with is Blasphemy+Malice because Blasphemy hurts ALL types and controls crowds.
Or Blasphemy+Perfect Thanatos because Thanatos makes Malice pretty much obsolete due to his range and ability to utterly destroy all types and absolutely destroy crowds.
That doesn't mean you can't win with others. I've done many runs using uncommon combinations.
Yeah you will repeat a few levels. I forgot which. I think some parts are only on Side B.