Welcome new members (introduction topic)

Gonna make a topic of it when it is released on Steam. Not that I'm shilling or anything.

Hello everyone, Newbie here. Big fan of character action games however, there is no good place to talk about them. I don't remember how i found this site but i sometimes check this forum for interesting game discussions. Finally, decided to make an account after Seeing there is no elitism & DMC circlejerk. The character action games i have found most interesting so far are MGRR & Wonderful 101. The former because it was my first platinum as well as first action game & the latter due to well... everything. Love the gameplay , Music , characters , story(best Videogame ending of all time). IMO it is platinum's best game.

Welcome to the site Monsoon! With an avatar like that (one of my favourite games) I'm sure you'll fit right in haha!

> MGR:R
It's the title where I first started to take the genre seriously as well, it's a great gateway drug I'd say. Has a lot of high notes, just enough depth to keep you coming back for more etc.

> W101
It's still a game I have to 'get into', but for some reason it keeps not clicking with me. I think I just need to find the right time and frame of mind for it. I finished it on the WiiU many eons ago.

Feel free to ressurect old topics you want to chime in on or talk about games that aren't featured here! Again, welcome!

Nice to meet another POP fan. Unfortunately, ubisoft doesn't care about us.

For me what made wonderful 101 stand apart from the other action games is drawing system. Okami also uses this system and that is the only game which has made magic engaging for me.

One of the biggest issue I have with other action games is remembering all the button inputs. It's far easier to remember geometric shapes than button inputs. The controls in W101 are intuitive compared to something like DMC however combat has just as much as depth as DMC if not more.

Very recognizable! I think with more inputs, they tend to mean less if you get me. In a game like MGR:R there's not a lot of combo's or inputs, but they all have a meaning. Same with an even simpler game like Shinobi(PS2). I've been playing SIFU a lot lately and it kinda suffers from this as well, with a lot of the inputs being practically useless or adding little to what's already there.

> PoP
Warrior Within is just such gold, so is Sands of Time. It's such a shame the series was abandonned in favour of Assassin's Creed. Really loved the freeflow-system in WW. I'm still mixed on Two Thrones, I really loved the original concept and how it ties up all the loose ends, but it felt a bit less polished than WW still. You?

Yeah, I get what you mean. Even MGR has strings which are difficult to memorise and not that useful in regular combat compared to bayonetta. I understand the developer wants to give player as many as option as they can, but that also makes controls a pain in the neck.

I think W101 is like a combination between DMC1 & Bayonetta. It's got the simplicity of DMC1 controls while having the depth & complexity of bayonetta.

Actually, T2T is my favorite from the series. I played the trilogy backwards, so that may have influenced my choice. T2T pros

Stealth mechanics
Better variety of bosses
Chariot race set piece( I might be one of the very few people who liked this addition)
Improved platforming (Dark prince section being the highlight)
Dark prince ( I'm a sucker for alter ego stories)
General concept of prince being hunted in his own city & rising to the occasion to accept his princely duties.

I have seen the original concept of T2T. It seemed like they had a different idea for story.

WW brought some much needed improvements in the combat department, but I am not fan of it's level design. I'm not into metroidvanias or open world. I like linear games as they don't destroy the pacing for me. Also, didn't like the excessive edginess. Personally, I like MGR like edginess, WW is too serious. Some campiness would have made the game better.

SOT - Story, Characters & Platforming are good, however the combat is tedious. Frankly I don't like the combat in SOT trilogy hence the reason for my preference of T2T. I like the idea of acrobatic combat that utilizes environment around you. The execution, IMO left a lot to be desired.

What about 2008 POP? Have you played it? I like the reboot a lot. I would have preferred if ubisoft had continued with the reboot instead of regressing back to SOT formula with Forgotten sands.

I love the concept of Assassin's creed a lot. The issue is Ubisoft barely made any improvements to POP formula that AC inherited.

Yeah absolutely! In MGR:R though the low volume of moves tended to give them all a practical use, helped by their uniqueness mostly. Like the Sweep, Palmstrike and Divekick all had their unique uses, while the regular moveset still had it's own reason to exist supplemented by it.

The further it builds out though the more messy it gets, also in application. You never know what moveset your player has, since a lot are locked behind upgrades, so games tend to lose balance once you get your full kit in these types of games.

> T2T
I played SoT first, then T2T and then WW. I loved T2T originally, but after WW it felt kinda like a step-back in terms of combat options (especially no strangle).

The bosses were pretty cool, though I kinda prefer stuff like Shadee and Griffon to what we got in T2T (the two brothers were super cool though).

Fully agree the dark-prince was great, absolutely adored their banter. "Tick tock prince, tick, tock, tick, tock". Would've been cool if they'd made the voice of the Dark Prince the voice over the Prince from WW.

Also LOVED how the game ended, fantastic final boss with a great closure in storytelling.

> WW combat
Yeah it's mostly interesting for its implementation of platforming into combat, which was really novel at the time imo (NGB ofc. did it better, but there's still a lot to it). Also loved the grapples and weapon-switch system. Think it still has a lot of potential and ability to grow.

SoT has the best story imo and mood, but yeah the combat really wasn't...fantastic haha.

> 2008 PoP
Tried it, but couldn't get 'into it' for whatever reason. I kinda liked the movie-tie-in game though. Did you play that one?

> AC
Adored the series originally, but around Revelations it started to outstay its welcome for me tbh. I think also due to its lack of growth.

That Tick tock line is also my favorite line from the game.

Haven't played the ninja gaiden games yet. I was looking forward to the pc port, but was disappointed due to lack of K&M support.

More games should utilize environmental attacks in the combat. REVENGEANCE had a wall running feature in it's initial stages. I guess platinum couldn't get it working hence they dropped it from the final game which was disappointing.

2008 POP had a lot of neat ideas.

The cell shaded visuals are gorgeous.
Non linear progression.
New magic powers used for Platforming.
Combat had a bit of freedom. You can chain some really long combos.
Elika is my favorite companion from the series. I like how they made her a major character in both gameplay& story. Also the game has a really clever boss fight involving one of the game's major criticism.
The game is very relaxing to play.

Personally my biggest issue with the game is lack of combat encounters & how automated the Platforming is compared to the SOT trilogy. All of this can be improved in a sequel which now seems like will never happen.

I'm unfamiliar with the movie tie in game. Are you talking about Forgotten sands? I'm also on pc so I'm unable to play the games on another platform.

I still love the AC series. IMO AC has the coolest premise of any video game I have ever played. Usually games just imitate movie plots but AC came up with an original& gripping plot. It's a shame the gameplay is mediocre in the single player mode. The multiplayer however is another deal. Have you played it? I recommend it if you haven't yet. They really nailed the' blade in the crowd' feel the single player could never deliver. Anyway, even with mediocre gameplay I just find running&jumping around virtual recreation of historical time periods very satisfying.

> Ninja Gaiden
If you ever get to them, try and play the Xbox versions if you can i.e. Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden II. While the Sigma versions are fine, the original releases are generally loved more and are more uniquly 'Ninja Gaiden' while the Sigma games are a bit more generalistic (imo).

I can't imagine ever playing them with M&K, but hey I've seen weirder games played that way haha.
If you ever get around to the series, hit me up!

> Forgotten Sands
That's the one, didn't it get a PC version? It greatly improved upon the platforming once again and the special abilities. Combat took another massive dump though.

@Memes of Monsoon

Even if you end up playing Sigma 1 on PC (Assuming you have no access to any Xbox), just play the PS3 version on RPCS3. It looks and runs great, it's better than the native PC port. You can do the same for 3RE. You can also try emulating NG2 on Xenia.

Assassin's Creed - Even as a kid I remember finding the gameplay to shallow and automatic. Both the platforming and combat were downgraded compared to PoP. I mostly adored the recreations of historical cities, as you noted the premise is really cool. I also enjoyed Black Flag for a little while due to being a casual pirate simulator.

Agreed about the multiplayer, though that's mostly from watching a friend playing it, as I didn't play, but what I did play was a really good 'blend in the crowd' stealth as you put it.

@Raeng

We talked a bit about Onimusha 1 before, but when I'll finally get to it, should I play through Warlords once before moving on to Genma for all subsequent playthroughs?

I'd say you only play Warlords if it's all you have access to or if you really want to see how much changed in Genma out of interest. Otherwise I'd go for Genma and never look back.

I always heard it's much improved over Warlords of course, but some people also told me I should play Warlords first because without it Genma will be much more brutal or something (Not that I'm afraid of a challenge of course), so that's why I'm asking. I have Genma on my OG Xbox.

>more brutal
It's definitely a little harder due to certain elements but I don't think playing Warlords would matter in that regard.

New enemy, enemies absorbing souls to get their own power ups, new areas, different item placements. If anything playing Warlords would make Genma confusing.

> Onimusha
As Birdman noted, just play Genma. I started with Genma too, and it's not too brutal after the initial learning curve of how the game works/plays. Considering your action-experiences, I'm not too afraid you'll get stuck.

GN1 wrote:Even if you end up playing Sigma 1 on PC (Assuming you have no access to any Xbox), just play the PS3 version on RPCS3. It looks and runs great, it's better than the native PC port. You can do the same for 3RE. You can also try emulating NG2 on Xenia.

The Steam remaster should have less input lag, more content and it's also mod-friendly (NG+ and other nice additions from what I have seen). All emulators add some input lag so I don't think RPCS3 is a good idea if you have an alternative.

NG2 is the only one which should be played on Xenia if you don't own a Microsoft console.

While I don't have any scientific test method, I'm pretty sure input lag was the same for me on a real PS3 and also emulated on RPCS3. I think the PC version had the same amount of input lag as RPCS3/Real PS3.

I recommended RPCS3 for 2 reasons: unlimited resolutions, and normal bow aiming (Master collection uses the Vita bow controls, which are bad IMO). If there are mods to restore normal bow aiming then I guess the PC version will be good to go.

I'm sure input lag will vary between games but just chiming in to say I've had good experiences with RPCS3, too. I played some Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection not too long ago and was very impressed with how responsive it felt. It's worth mentioning that, on PC, the controller you use can impact input lag too. I recently found out that the 8bitdo controller I have is a fair bit slower than the PS5 DualSense controller, so I've started using that instead. May be placebo when we're talking about a matter of milliseconds, but it does feel a bit better to use.

I mean effects on the order of ms definitely matter. 60fps games have 16.66ms per frame, and input delays of a few frames are definitely noticeable for some people (myself included). There are a bunch of ways to lower it, it's a big rabbit hole.

Hi. I decided to join here after Raeng gave me an open invitation a while back when I was going through mental health problems. No worries, I'm feeling well today.

Anyway, if you don't know me, I'm mostly a Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none sort of player, where I cover a bunch of PlatinumGames/Capcom action games alongside stuff like Ninja Gaiden (and failing at it) on youtube while also doing combo vids and guides for games that pleases me.

It's been largely difficult for me to connect with a lot of people and make friends because I'm somewhat new to this thing, even now after 10 years, since I didn't exactly grow up playing these types of games during the PS2 era. I was mostly a SEGA/Sonic fanboy during my childhood and teen years and now I just try to play a lot of classics today to see what I've mostly missed out on.

I hope not to be burden here so I'll probably just spend my time lurking.

I've been waiting.

Long has Birdman observed you.

...Setnaro_X? Two days ago, I was re-reading a topic where you happened to post in. What a coincidence.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241018-devil-may-cry-5/78119469?page=1

Either way, welcome to the forum.

Really, really happy to see you here Set! As noted, you're always welcome here, feel free to resurrect old topics of games you want to talk about or just lurk/hang around. Things can sometimes become 'serious', but it's always in good spirit and just mechanical discussion. Hope you have fun here :)

> still exploring the genre
I also came into it later than most I feel, but I think nobody has played it all, it's still such a wide genre. Trying to nail it all down is impossible, which is part of the fun!

Oh hey, I haven't introduced myself yet. Been here since Oct 02 2021, but I guess it just slipped my mind, haha. Name's mageknight14 and it's nice to meet you all. I like to play a wide variety of action games, but my primary series are the TWEWY games, a series of really damn underrated ARPGs that I feel deserve a lot more love for their unique takes on combat and their stylish presentation. I've even done several combat challenges covering NEO TWEWY in particular that I hope show off how in-depth the combat of the game is. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC671sTX-5RcrS9fZIXZlklg
I also like to explore all kinds of ARPGs and action games and I'm always up for discovering more.

Another friendly face! Cool to see you all hit the site up, fantastic! Welcome :)

Royta/Raeng wrote:Another friendly face! Cool to see you all hit the site up, fantastic! Welcome :)

Thanks man, that means a lot. I’m hoping to get some quality discussion about action games here and this site seems pretty ripe for that.

Hey man, great to have you here :)

I got NEO TWEWY when it was released on Steam last month, I watched some gameplay and it looks fantastic. I never played the original TWEWY though, and I want to play it before NEO.

Usually I see the original DS version being recommended but I currently don't have a 3/DS (Might get one in the future). In terms of gameplay, how does TWEWY Final Remix compare to the original DS version?

GN1 wrote:Hey man, great to have you here :)

I got NEO TWEWY when it was released on Steam last month, I watched some gameplay and it looks fantastic. I never played the original TWEWY though, and I want to play it before NEO.

Usually I see the original DS version being recommended but I currently don't have a 3/DS (Might get one in the future). In terms of gameplay, how does TWEWY Final Remix compare to the original DS version?

Final Remix is an alright way to play the game but it pales in comparison to the original. Your partner is literally just a 7th pin for Neku in Handheld Mode / Solo Joy-Con. They can't take damage, have shit availability, their stats are added onto Neku's, and you have to build your deck around their input method (tap for Shiki, slash for Joshua, something to combo after Beat's holds) so you can build up sync % for a instant win fusion mini-game since your psych damage is ass. It's an incredibly shallow single-player experience controlling just Neku, and this gameplay style was first seen in the mobile port Solo Remix.

Final Remix's Solo Co-Op (two Joy-Cons) is more respectable, because while your partner still can't take damage, they have 3 pins (more availability), better damage output, a cross combo multiplier that can build up to 2.0x and isn't stuck to just 1.1x, and you can juggle your opponents between your two characters. This tried to replicate the DS version's multitasking with gyro in absence of a second screen, but this port walked so NEO could run.

For the DS version, your partner faces an entirely separate battle on the top screen complete with their own input method (direction pad/face buttons), ATK/DEF stats, dodge, and card minigame to rack up fusion stars for a cutscene attack all while Neku is still doing his versatile psych inputs on the bottom touch screen, bound together by a shared HP pool and the green Light Puck for a 2x ~ 5x psych damage multiplier for chaining combo finishers back to back between your party members. There's 3 boss fights that fundamentally make use of these two screens better than either port, the 2 bat boss noise and Konishi fight,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKmMfPelPhs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGypH9DPGYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi13zQq9M84
and thematically works as the player tries to wrap their brain around dodging/puck passing while Neku is simultaneously trying to trust his partner.
There’s a lot of mechanics at play, one of which has you increasing the sync rate between you and your partner (increase puck duration by fighting well, matching trends, eating, etc). It may seem overbearing at first but the game gradually eases you into the mechanics and by the end of it, controlling the two separate characters feels extremely satisfying.
There’s also tons of little tech too, like how you can equip clothing that has you be able to increase or decrease combo panels on your partners for either longer combo strings, give you shorter time to execute finishers for more Efficiency damage or build up your Fusion quicker, how Joshua's ground and air combos allow for more enemy manipulation since you can use his ground combos to stun and move enemies to the side and set up his dual Jesus Beam finisher, dodge out of attacks by switching to air, or build up stronger combo finishers on the ground, picking up or throwing enemies/obstacles with the Psychokinesis psych and doing more or less damage depending on their size and more.

Royta/Raeng wrote:Really, really happy to see you here Set! As noted, you're always welcome here, feel free to resurrect old topics of games you want to talk about or just lurk/hang around. Things can sometimes become 'serious', but it's always in good spirit and just mechanical discussion. Hope you have fun here :)

Sure! I'm just glad to feel welcome. I'll be honest, sometimes I wonder if my views on stuff don't matter because anytime I recommend folks the games I love, it's usually met with bitterness and I'm left wondering if I just have shitty opinions. Like, I won't shut up about how much I adore Wonderful 101 and I remember Tetsuo9999 asking if it was worth playing and I said yeah, only to then see him post completely out of frustration how horrible the game was. Watching his stream where he was yelling to the Gods how awful PlatinumGames were for making W101 made me stop talking about that game these days.

I've lately been backtracking to old games to see what makes them tick. I've lately been playing God Hand and that's a fun game. I decided to also give Ninja Gaiden Black a second try after I had a somewhat bad experience streaming the game (still embarrassed by my own anger meltdown during one bit). If it means anything, I'm starting to totally get why folks love NGB. I've been able to handle normal difficulty with ease, and by "ease" I mean die less frequently. I've figured out more tactics for surviving and it feels good to turn the tables on the enemies. My biggest problem was my own self for expecting my PG skills to transfer to NGB and after learning to embrace everything, using items, play more slowly and precise, the game is now growing on me. Eventually, I'd like to take a crack at streaming the game again as a sort of redemption run.

Anyway, thanks for welcoming me. I'll definitely resurrect any interesting topics while I hang about.

Phoenix Wright wrote:...Setnaro_X? Two days ago, I was re-reading a topic where you happened to post in. What a coincidence.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241018-devil-may-cry-5/78119469?page=1

Either way, welcome to the forum.

Hehe, yeah, I tend to hang around Gamefaqs from time to time. It's one of the earliest message boards I still hang around in. I'm still quite sad they removed spaces from names. I was one of the very few folks who managed to have a space in their name, to the point that I was invited to the hidden Gamefaqs board called "The Space Bar". I used to go to Gamefaqs purely for Sonic stuff before W101 came into my life and then I'd start visiting more action based games like DMC and Bayonetta. I'm no pro at DMC but my expertise at most PG stuff means I can at least throw in my 2 cents on certain subjects. And hey, it's not like I don't know how to play DMC myself :)

> Tetsuo9999
Honestly never heard about him. That said, people can be mean spiritid and vile, especially when going for clout. You'll find no animosity here I think, just discussion, though sometimes with a bit of barb or directness. If something rubs you wrong, feel free to hit me up (this goes for everyone ofc.).

> W101
It was quite a topic here too. Personally I love the combat but I cannot get into the game itself, but there are users here that have fallen head over heels inlove with it.

> God Hand
Such a gorgeously great game.

> NGB
Interesting to hear you raged at it, didn't know that! It's a fantastic series and one that, since it changes so much per entry, has no true best game. It's very enjoyable to play all the entries. Going by your history I think you'll find the most fun in NGII once you get good at that one.

> gamefaqs
Fun site still to this day, love how unmoderated it is. It makes it a bit unwelcome at times but also just means people are purely themselves.

Setnaro, listen well.

Keep talking about the games you love. Keep promoting the mechanics ruthlessly.

It doesn't matter if someone hates them or if some mechanically blind fool talks shit.
Most people don't care about this stuff.

But the ones who do will seek it out. I've experienced it.

It's rare but it happens. I've had people PM me about Chaos Legion, Lollipop Chainsaw and even Knack 2 because they'd seen my posts and were smart enough to realize there was more going on than what the mechanically blind fools were spewing, who are the majority.

Arguments go nowhere. Just keep posting and making videos. This is what I've learned from like 20 years of action gaming.

Yeah if there's one thing I've learned is that it's a numbersgame, if anything. I think I've talked to over a thousand individual users, and, well, the fruits are on this forum (generally speaking). Maybe 10-20 people that when talking and discussing with they saw something they hadn't before (or likewise, they made me fun in a game I despised before (MGS2, KH1 for example)).

And when someone who hated it before or just didn't care for it, suddenly loves it, man I love that shit. Seeing someone find these great games and explore that entire library, great stuff.

Hi. I kinda just jumped right in with a thread before introducing myself here, so I'll correct that. Roy, we spoke years ago, and you changed my views on what makes a game cheap, suck or unbalanced. I may not be the most active gamer or forum member (on any forum), but I'll try to make high-effort posts and not repeat what's been said before.

I kinda misjudged the forum, thinking it was some safe haven for combo mads, when really it's about finding new, interesting and challenging ways of playing games and showing one's mastery. Gimping yourselves with the handguns in Bayo or wooden sword in MGR, so you actually learn the enemy's attack patterns and never get hit, rather than relying on the Killgore glitch (although it is a very efficient way of playing, so I'm not sure of the forum's opinion of it.)

I tend to avoid games at release, for price, bugs and the growing backlog. Stuff like Callisto Protocol vindicate it, but it also leaves you out of the news, opinion and exploit-finding cycle. I don't want to use this place like a blog, so I'll be sure to find a glitch or exploit one day that helps everyone. Call it the Black Adam bug.

> I changed your point of view
Damn! High praise. Where did we meet? Gamefaqs?

> Killgore
Both have their advantages, Killgore Glitch with Climax Bracelet is ofc. very very efficient, but also limiting your level of experimentation (which is the true goal of mastery imo).

> avoid games at release
A good practice these days with all the day-1 patches and what not.

Again, welcome man, glad to see so much new blood and activity :) One question, I assume you're a Black Adam fan haha. I never got too deep into Shazam lore (mostly a bat-family reader). Any stories you'd recommend?

Thanks. You got Setnaro joining, next you'll see Creative Handle, Yosheque, Matthewmatosis, Rakunx and the rest.

>where we met
Reddit

>comics
If you want a short story where Black Adam goes ham, then World War III is good. Not exactly the antihero he is in the new film.

>Reddit

> Yosh
She blocked me on Twitter, though I still don't know why. Always liked her content on Bayo, especially now that I'm revisiting the series.

I pretty much learned how to play from her, so I'm surprised. Maybe you got hit by splash damage, like Daedron12 when he got blocked by Kamiya because someone shared his video.

I block/mute people who post shit I don't like most of the time.

Hi all! I'm very happy to have found this place, I read everything in the main site some years ago but for some reason never jumped into the forum. The other day someone on the CAG subreddit recommended the site so after discovering all the amazing content that I have been missing I finally jumped in and registered.

I love everything from Platinum and DMC (though I haven't played 1&2) and I'm also a hobbyist game developer: Unfortunately I have a very time-consuming job so I just make a lot of prototypes that never amount to anything, but I LOVE studying how games are made, discussing about them and I am a huge "GAMEPLAY IS KING" guy, so the Character Action/Stylish Action genre is one of my main interests.

I'm currently studying some 3D animation to see if I can make a cool action game, something like the old Xiao Xiao clips, a sort of Musou game but with a deeper combat system Platinum style. I tried to do it in 2D but the amount of animation frames that I needed to draw were just impossible to handle, so it ended in my prototype graveyard along the other 1000 ideas I've had along the years

Hope to learn a lot here and that someday you'll guys be able to play something I make

Welcome Jon! Cool to see another dev. here, we've got a few hobbiests and serious..ists(? is that a word?) here too! Glad to see you finially signed up:)

> dmc 1 and 2
The first one is a highlight, definitely give it a go at some point in your life for sure. The second game is overhated, but it isn't fantastic by any means.

What's your favourite title so far?

>Welcome Jon! Cool to see another dev. here, we've got a few hobbiests and serious..ists(? is that a word?) here too! Glad to see you finially signed up:)
Great to know, if anyone wants someone to test some gameplay or just bounce ideas I'm more than willing to help!


>The first one is a highlight, definitely give it a go at some point in your life for sure. The second game is overhated, but it isn't fantastic by any means.
Thanks, I had planned to play it at some point, but I'll bump it up my backlog for sure!


> What's your favourite title so far?

I'd probably say the first Bayonetta. It has a lot of jank but the combat is much better than that in B2 (though B2 is a much more polished game in every way). I'm still in the fence with B3, I love the crazy weapons and Demon Masquerade, but it's too easy to just summon the demons and stomp everything. I didn't like Viola much (gameplay-wise) and the story is the worst of the 3, but the level design is great and I found the minigames quite entertaining this time. It does need a Bloody Palace mode though. I think in some years I'll probably rank them 1>3>2, but I still want to put B3 a bit above because I love crazy weapons and B3 overdelivered in that regard.

DMC4 is probably my second favourite, because it was the first game in the genre that I played and probably the one I've played the most. Dante was too overwhelming for a newbie like me, but Nero was just the perfect character to introduce new players. DMC3 (specially the special edition on switch) is the best and more rounded game in the series, everything from the combat system, to the weapons, styles, characters, story is just the best in the genre but 4 still holds a special place for me (and uncle Dante is my favourite incarnation of Dante). 5 has the best combat but everything else (story, level design, V...) was very underwhelming.

I also love Astral Chain, TW101, Aztez, Sekiro, the Souls games, DmC (it's not comparable to the "real" DMC but it's not a bad game by any means), NioH, the Batman Arkham games (super simple combat system but it can be very enjoyable with the challenge modes)...I liked Metal Gear Rising but consider it a big couple of steps below Bayonetta, TW101 or AC. I was bored to death with Nier:Automata and the original GOW and absolutely despise GOW2018.

I've recently been rediscovering my enjoyement of Bayonetta-1, so I can fully understand that. When it's good it's super super good, but it's also quite jank at times, like my personal favourite (NGII). So I can fully support that.

> astral chain
My man!

> Batman
MY MAN. I still really like those games.

Not seeing any Ninja Gaiden yet, you played those yet?

>Not seeing any Ninja Gaiden yet, you played those yet?

I got the collection for Switch a couple years ago and starting playing NG1, but got stuck at a lady demon boss fight in a church. Usually I have no problem banging my head agaisnt a wall until I "git gud", but I was making no progress at all and the closest checkpoint to the fight is before a very slow underwater section and a couple of filler fights, so in the end I was using more time in those parts than in the fight itself. So at some point I got tired of it and dropped it. Do you recommend that I try to get back to it or should I jump straight into NGII?

BTW, like I said I usually have no problem dying at the same stuff a million times until I improve, I actually love when games give me a challenge but there are somethings that I have little tolerance for, like unnecessarily long runs to the boss and OHKO attacks. This last one is specially bad, IMHO you can get the same or even better effect if you make the boss use an attack that will leave the player with 1HP if he has more than 40% HP left and kill him otherwise (it could even destroy all the player healing vials as well). The player will still be terrified about that attack, and the result of having to fight the boss with just 1HP will create a very high tension situation as well.
As for long boss runs, I think they're only justified if they are used to teach you something about the boss; Maybe there are some enemies along the way that use weaker attack forms of what the boss does and that way you can train with them on your way to the boss. But having stuff like clunky underwater sections, elevator rides, or long empty corridors is just a waste of time. Put a checkpoint on the door to the boss room and you instantly have a much more enjoyable game.

I didn't die many times to her, but when I did, getting back to her was irritating as fuck.

Isn't there a second fight with her?

There's a Jeanne fight in Bayonetta 1 where I think you have to do a shooter segment first. I hate that shit. Why wouldn't they just put a checkpoint before the boss?

Does the PC version allow save states?

> Isn't there a second fight with her?

God please no


>There's a Jeanne fight in Bayonetta 1 where I think you have to do a shooter segment first. I hate that shit. Why wouldn't they just put a checkpoint before the boss?

Yup, that's pretty horrible, it's the best fight in all the series and it's right behind the looooooong Space Harrier level.
Kamiya is awesome but he needs someone by his side to tell him when it's enough.

> ninja gaiden
The Collection is, if you're wanting the best experience, better labled as Ninja Gaiden: The Bad Collection. It generally speaking has the worst versions of all the games, both in terms of content and at times also performance (depending on console). The only version that is great imo is NG1, since it also has the vita-content. If you have an Xbox I highly recommend playing the originals if you're thinking about diving in deep. Should note that there are no BAD versions, just ones that are better than others.

> got stuck on Alma
Quite common, she's without a doubt the gatekeeper for a lot of new players. Few notes on her:

- the backtrack
There's a savepoint in a cave underwater close to that elevator. What most players do is they go up, kill the small fights, backtrack to that savepoint and just go from there. The fight doesn't respawn. 60secs tops.

- OHKO
Not sure if you mean she has this, but she doesn't have OHKO moves, just very potent ones.

- general tips
Getting a feel for her moves is the most important. You're (assumingly) playing on Normal, so she's alone (let that be a mental image to terrify you of subsequent harder difficulties). You can punish her safely after she does her sweepkick while standing, and you can risk going for a flying swallow after every attack she misses. She's also fully open when she lifts off of the ground - which she tends to do at the start of the fight so immediately Swallow her.

You can use a Flamewheels combo to melt her if you know how to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxY0YoSU5rM

You see me do the Swallow immediately as she was about to lift off, making her vulnerable and unable to dodge.

> Second fight
Yeah, and generally speaking when people say Alma is hard (that's her name), they are refering to the second fight (and for good reason).

> should you press on
Honestly I'm the last one you should ask since I'm extremely biased, it's my favourite action series by a mile so my answer would be yes-yes-yes-yes-yes haha.

>second fight
>God please no
I'd even take a third.

Reason I asked is she might be more accessible. Preferably beside a savepoint for testing.

>60secs tops.
Oh.

I tried again these days and I finally managed to beat Alma :) Thanks for the tips!

I still don't like the fight. Beyond the horrible run to the boss (wait for the chapter title screen, swim slowly through a serpent-like tunel, wait for the elevator gates to open, board the elevator, wait for the elevator cutscene and black loading screen, wait for the elevator exit cutscene, go through an empty-if you killed the minions before and saved-room, quick door opening cutscene, jump down to the arena) the fight itself was pretty broken. Alma doesn't provide many openings and sometimes the AI will just refuse to let you deal any damage and constantly repeat pilar and red energy balls attacks without letting any opening. You can't stay close to her because she can pop the light pillar grab attack almost instantly. On the ground she can use the leg grab attack which has insane range and is really difficult to avoid. And above all else, the camera is constantly waiting for the best time to get stuck behind a pillar or anywhere else really. The only sort-of consistent opening I found was after her dive kick attack, but to bait that you need to gamble and stay at a range where you'll be caught if she uses the light pilar instead, so in the end my victory felt more like luck than me getting the hang of Alma.

Congrats! Yeah the checkpoints before bosses can be a drag, though granted I've played the games so many times I don't notice it too much anymore. NGII and NG3(RE) fix these issues (mostly).

She is quite the core of how Team Ninja designs bosses though, they seem to want a back-and-forth fight where nothing is fully guaranteed. In NGII there's plenty of bosses who will constantly randomly block or dodge, moreso in NG3:RE. In NG:B they'll just have attacks *clink* off or they'll just dodge them. It's a mindset you have to get used to.

Some closing notes:

- leg-grab: has a really funky timing to it, you have to delay your roll as it's designed to catch roll-happy players.
- camera: yeah that can be a bitch, try and incorporate the 'recenter' input with your dodges.

Also don't forget you have items. This isn't DMC, use them! Heal up, there's no shame (or ranking system) that punishes it.

Hello there! Decided to join after lurking for quite a bit, mainly to add my 2 cents to the discussions of games Im familiar with. I mostly play DMC (5 and 3), Bayo 1 and the NG games and some FPS games like D:E and Ultrakill. Looking to delve into more games this year though.