God Hand general discussion

Getting to level 3 and level Die is really fun!

It is so dumb that Hard Mode just disables that mechanic in favour of a set-level. Always loved the way that mechanic played out!

Roy I agree with that to an extent but what if you can keep it on Die regardless?

Then that's fine, but you at least have the pressure to keep up the quality of gameplay. While on Hard Mode currently there's no such pressure, as you're never punished (outside of dying). Also kind of destroys the economics system, as you always get max-kill rewards at the end of a chapter as a result since you get full Die Kills.

>Punishment/economics
Maybe they should've made different rules for Die, like dying at all meant you get nothing at the end of a chapter.

Note that I'm talking about Hard Mode. On Normal Mode, LevelDie is basically level4, and thus if you kill a foe at that level you get extra money as opposed to level3 kills. But considering Hard Mode just locks you in level4 by default...you always have max money. The whole Hard Mode really feels like an after thought imo.

I get the merits of the mechanic, but I'd rather it stay full speed the whole time. I'll never go back to normal because getting hit means the enemies will slow down and become less dangerous. I think it takes a few hits for that to happen though.

It does, but for me just staying in Level Die is a tad boring. Granted, this comes from a guy with a lot of runs under his belt. So for me the only thing that's really interesting is staying at LevelDie, not surviving it.

I'm always confused as to why the D-Pad wasn't used in this game aside from the menus. If there's one thing I hate in games consistently, it's wasted buttons.

Would have been cool to have move loadouts set to it

Yeah I always kept that in mind as well myself, would've really been cool but might have been a technical limitation.

I'd seen some good work from various runners (and learned a bit from SBK), but only got to play very little (Oni and Eternal both gave up super fast). More is the pity. Not so much interested in the mixing-and-matching for combos (style) crap, but the cheap bullshit and environmental stuff seemed pretty swell. Can't remember how much friendly fire there was (don't think it had in-fighting or factions).

No factions, but enemies could damage each other pretty significantly as I recall with some moves, but this was rare. I still put it very high on my list of top-action games, but its length and later enemies also tend to bore me in some instances. Should give it another run one day, but Hard KMS really burned me out as did Hard KMS NUR.

>significant friendly fire
Helps offset lack of factions. I'm guessing no in-fighting.

>rare
Of course.

>bored with later foes
Ran out of new things by then, did they?

>burned out
I've heard nice things about those runs.

Pretty interesting. Someone modded 'style switching' into God Hand, allowing you to use the d-pad to switch between four customizable movesets that you 'save'. Though I tend to dislike this style of thing, I did feel that the ability to save movesets in God Hand would really improve it.

You can see and find the mod here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu9XTfZCGTM

Fuck yeah, finally that stupid D-Pad is being put to some use.

Gonna be seeing what Moike Kobe does with it.

This something that makes sense but I feel like we'll still be changing sets slot anyway. I know I was always changing a move here and there.

Time for a little fun.

I'm doing my first run and yesterday I reached 4-7 where a trident demon appears. This game is amazing, even the starter moveset is very useful. On LV3 and LVDIE the challenge is really exciting, enemies are relentless and they gang up on you easily if you don't do a good job with your positioning and crowd control options.

Before this game I was playing DMC4 on SoS but I don't like Nero, normal enemies, a lot of bosses, a lot of missions and how Dante is treated. Nero's grabs are awful compared to those you can do in GoW (I think Raeng talked about this and I agree), puzzles are stupid or annoying (the dice, uh?), it seems enemies are pretty passive but their attacks sometimes don't have a tell and they break from combos or have shields that limit your attacks. I don't know how DMD is but a lot of things are already irritating, I'd play DMC3 now but I have to be in the right mood for DMC4. God Hand is fresh air

God Hand is just such a gem. Doing a run with the starter moveset is actually possible, which is even cooler. The damage values get a bit wack but there's actual balancing going on.

I really love the level-system, what about you? I beat the game on Hard a few times but always find myself getting back to Normal as the level system really pushes you to play better I feel.

Have fun on the run! The game is also pretty long, which took me by surprise originally.

>DMC4
It has a lot of good in it, but also a lot of bad. I consider it a pretty sizable step back compared to DMC3 that's for sure.

Wow man, you recently played through REmake for the first time and now this? These are some amazing new experiences to be having. God Hand has been pretty much my favorite game in the genre since its release but I don’t play it as much as other games because I don’t ever want to wear it out...if that makes sense. Hope you keep enjoying.

>DMC4
Completely agree with everything you said. Not a bad game for sure, but it has so many massive flaws that a few runs was enough for me.

@Raeng

The level-system is a great idea but I also like to have a fixed LVDIE mode. Imagine if you die and decrease your level during a boss fight or a hard section, after "continue" you could easily destroy a good portion of enemies' health without too many hurdles. It's true that when your level increases you have immediate feedback on your gameplay but on LVDIE/hard mode if you don't play well you die (lol) so there's a kind of immediate feedback on hard as well.

@Infinity_Divide

Yeah, REmake is phenomenal. One of my favourites, no doubts. I even convinced a friend of mine to buy it after TLOU2, but he's one of those people who don't want to learn the controls so I have to insist more haha. By the way, it's criminal how little GH is played. It has an easy mode, roulette moves and the God Hand itself, so almost everyone could beat this game. Were better graphics and story really needed to sell more?

God Hand suffered from a lot of bad marketing and rep. The controls are, granted, not that easy to pick up and you have to remember it came out in a time when information wasn't that readily available. Shinji Mikami's name carried zero weight. Add a couple of damning reviews, a small print that lead it to be very expensive very fast, some...interesting commercials etc. and you've got a badly selling game. Which sucks since it's fantastic.

> LevelDIE
I'm glad it's there in Hard Mode, which is fixed to Level Die, but I kind of also wished there was an infinite mode that just keeps going. Levels 1 to DIE are nicely balanced in that they influence more than damage numbers, but would be cool if on 'Ultra Hard' or whatever the meter goes on forever which keeps bumping up enemy damage and speed values until you just die. Would be fun to see how far you can get.

That said, on Hard I personally just feel less pushed to play well since dying is technically a reward (gives more money). On Normal you lose rank and you feel bad haha. Dunno, personal thing I guess.

> Dying is a reward
Isn't there a bonus if you don't die? If you use more continues you get less money I think. Yeah, you could farm enemies and keep dying but you could also exploit the casino on normal. If you don't die, save all villagers and do fairy challenges you should get max money so no need to die or use casino/chihuahua races. Maybe there are some other parameters but it seems good enough for me.

> LevelDIE+
Well, I haven't played hard mode yet but it could be a great idea. Souls' NG+ during fights and without a cap, if the game was released on PC I think someone would have created a mod for that.

There is a zero-death bonus, but if you die only once the reward is completely void and it isn't that big of a reward either IIRC. If you want cash and have fun doing it you can just wipe on a stage. I used to just play 1-2 over and over again, such a fun arena, short too, and then buy what I'd want later-on.

I tend to play on NG+ so money is pretty important early on. Reason for NG+ is that a lot of the game's best and most challenging content is NG+ exclusive which sucks (arena challenge 40 to 51).

> Hard
I kind of like its existence, but it also just feels not really thought through imo. Would've prefered something more than just "locked into LevelDie".

Back to this fantastic game. Yesterday I reached stage 6-7, so now I have to beat the psychic midget. It's strange how some stages are so short and others have a lot of enemies.

Normal run is done!
It was a great experience all around: fantastic enemies and bosses, satisfactory challenge even on LV3, perfect starter moveset, great variety in Gene's setups, funny characters and good music. I didn't use many "safe" tools (drunken moves or the most powerful roulette moves for example) just because it's too fun to fight in the normal way.

Awesome to hear man, always great to see someone experience the classics in full. What was your opinion on the final boss? Just such a fun game all around.

> safe tools
Good on you. They're there to help ease the pain at times, but abusing them can really make for a lesser experience. It gets even better when you start incorporating the more risky moves into your arsenal like Granny Smacker (works great on Bezel(the guy in the suit, I think that's his name)).

What's next though, going to attempt another run? Hard Mode? Or NG+ to clear the arena?

> final boss
If you're talking about Azel, yes: he's one of the best bosses I have ever fought. I imagine he's a beast on LVDIE haha. I think he taught me how to use better my moveset even in the first fight. This learning experience reminds me of Ryu clones, especially when you don't know their loops and you have to fight them fair and square. Angra... well, it's probably strange but I died fighting against him a few times more. I didn't know how to dodge some of his attacks so I had to retry. Without any roulette moves it's a pretty lenghty boss fight but it isn't difficult to react on LV2-3.

> safe tools
Yeah, they are similar to ninpo in NG and even more powerful. I watched Mike Kob using Double Shaolin Blast against Angra and it melts him. I understand this is an extreme example but even weaker roulette moves can give you victory in an instant. I'm not complaining but I prefer to use the normal moveset.

> what's next
Hard Mode, no doubts. It's the best way to learn counter hits and enemy AI.

Yeah Azel is absolutely fantastic, I was talking about Angra though haha. Azel is just such a strong boss, great design and even allowing us to keep up the pressure during his Devil Hand mode is great fun. Once did him KMS with the starter-moves, absolutely challenging but also a ton of fun.

> Angra
He's weird. On Hard KMS he can take quite a beating, most moves can be avoided by either hugging him or just running away.

> roulette
Mostly a fun animation and a way to get singature moves in there. They were among the first motion captured moves iirc in gaming (though they were only used as a base from what I remember).

> normal moveset
Not sure if you know the term yet, but you've seen me mention KMS a few times. In stage 1-2 Gene gets a 'kick me' sign put on his back if you recall. If you use the God Hand or Roulette moves it is blown away immediately. As such it is a challenge to be the game with it equipped, dubbed KMS (Kick Me Sign). There's even an in-game reward for it (a shitty one).

> Hard run
Some sections are absolutely nuts on Hard, good luck!

> Mike Kob
Used to be fan, then I found about his past with Yosh and also apparent save-state editing of his emulated footage and stopped following him. Always found his uppertcuts to be a bit too psychic. Guy's not mentally stable.

> KMS
Yeah, I know about that challenge. If I get past Hard Mode I could try it. There are even people who did a KMS run with starter moves and no health upgrades, insane skills

> Mike Kob
I don't know the man behind the player so I can't say much about those matters. He has written a great guide which was useful to understand free/hidden moves, juggles and other things. I watched his videos after beating a specific part or stage to not get spoiled. I talk about gameplay, obviously.
His channel is full of shit-posting and nonsense but there are also gems like this:

I wouldn't be surprised if some parts were edited thanks to save-states, though.

EXCUSE ME WHAT?

Damn. Singlesegment Hard KMS no damage? Is it weird that I assume save-states were used? I mean...damn.

Watched most of the footage and...something is definitely off. Saw some comments that accused him of cheating like Mike in the past, but not sure on how true that is. That said enemy agression values really feel off and some dodges happened that...weren't supposed to happen. Could be the emulated version have issues though.

Also he uses God moves (NG+ only) which is basically cheating in terms of damage output. Still, even then this would be an *impossible* feat bordering on the ludicurous.

So yeah. I'm skeptical. Insanely so.

EDIT: apparently one of the record holders of God Hand speedruns said this in the comment section:
"because conchita shoulda definitely hit your ass. You, moike and theiekldh are the biggest fakers I’ve seen, from save states to manipulating your hit boxes. Y’all are good, but not what you claim to be. If you speed run it’s impossible to not take hits as it wastes more time. I’d love to watch a live stream of yours."

I hope it's a legit run, but yeah it seems almost an impossible feat in a single segment. I don't have enough experience on Hard to say if some dodges are off or manipulated. He probably should have streamed this attempt and the previous ones on Twitch, to avoid suspicion. Farnham did that for his challenges and he was playing a game difficult to mod.

The sketchiest thing here is one of this guys first uploads is this insane run. Most people would have years of uploads or a twitch presence before something like this happens.
I wouldn't believe this shit without a stream.
That said I truly believe someone can play enough of this game to basically be neo from the matrix.
But mega sketch from this guy.

Not sure how I feel on mike as well. His gameplay is very entertaining and he opened my eyes to some of the more fun techniques I never saw used.
It's all a bit hard to believe though.

Mike has been 'exposed' a few times over iirc, one of his youtube buddies turned on him when that whole drama of him happened and noted that all his runs are spliced save-stats. Basically TAS.

That said mechanically speaking they are fantastic runs, and they really teach players new things. So it's a win and a loss.

But yeah I do feel it's...very sketchy. I've done Hard KMS* starter moveset, Hard KMS kick only and just a regular Hard KMS originally and it cannot be put into *words* just how scary that setting is. When I saw how he handled the three-stooges ... something really seems off with their agression%.

*this one I skipped quite a lot of fights though, and used non-starter moves on a few to 'skip' fights I just couldn't handle.

>When I saw how he handled the three-stooges ... something really seems off with their agression%.

Yeah definitely.

It is weird how people just eat it up as true. No proof provided, not streamed, not on original hardware.
But the title says, so it must be true.
This emulator shit should be immediately waved off as horse shit, when it comes to challenge runs.

You never know with these videos, it could be that they are bought comments (it happens). The runs aren't uploaded to any archive though. For comparison his first video shatters the NG+ Easy record by nearly 20 minutes while also being No-Damage while the other isn't.

Weird how God Hand attracts these type of players..

Then again, reminds me about this:

https://youtu.be/AFrQ1_2bbsI

I want to believe someone can play this well consistently but it just isn't true. I would believe segmented. But a single run without getting touched in a game like GH? Not likely.

I can do any stage of CL without getting hit but in a single run something insignificant will always clip me.

>You never know with these videos, it could be that they are bought comments (it happens).

True but originally I also thought they were legit. Didnt know any better until you told about Mike's nonsense.

Yeah I'm a bit in the same boat. Technically it should be possible and segmented I could totally see it. But considering the guy's reputation, the comments of the speedrunners etc. I'm thinking it's false.

> True but originally I also thought they were legit.
Fair point, my initial reaction was also to believe it.

I love almost all of the enemy types in God Hand, with the exception of midgets perhaps (Don't hate them, they are just kinda meh), but The ladies with the whip really rub me the wrong way even when I pull off counter hits. Am I the only one that feels that their hitbox is busted?

I also tried Fist of Justice, and I love it. It can be OP but also very risky to use so I really have to plan its usage carefully.

Unlike my first playthrough, I'm also using Barrel Roll Kick more than before and I'm surprised at how viable it is even during normal encounters, even without using cheesy tactics. It's really fun just trying new moves, experimenting and seeing how I can use them during fights.

>Am I the only one that feels that their hitbox is busted?
How so? I don't remember them that well.

I can sort of understand, they are always a high-priority target for me since they can wreck shop pretty fast with their aoe-sweep.

> fist of justice
Fun tip, if you activate the God Hand you can use your final pixel of meter to fully charge Fist of Justice, since finishing a charge takes priority over the ability running dry. Love that move.

> barrel roll
Every move is fun to use if you go for it honestly, just such a good game!

The whip attacks seem to have a massive AOE hitbox that goes beyond the animation itself, I'm almost sure of it, and it's something I can't say about other attacks in the game.

If the whip ladies stand behind an enemy you are fighting and do their sweep, they will still hit you, and it looks like the whip doesn't even touch Gene.

Every move is fun to use - Definitely looks like it, it's just that at first I couldn't use barrel roll kick effectively but now I can so I appreciate it more.

I just read about what you guys said about Mike. It is a shame, I thought he was one of the best players around (it didn't help that a certain article praises him left and right *which was the first time I heard about his name*).

So, this makes me wonder, have any of you guys heard about InfoGenius Pro? I just recently watched his NUR KMS content, and it is impressive. But what I read about Mike made me skeptical, and I haven't played the game to know for sure if what Info has done is legit.

>that goes beyond the animation itself
I remember the range. Does it have any effect on it that might be hitting you?

>If the whip ladies stand behind an enemy you are fighting and do their sweep, they will still hit you, and it looks like the whip doesn't even touch Gene.
I remember that too. Happened all the time.

>barrel roll kick
That the one where he spins and lands on his back? I never used that much.
How are you applying it?

>Mike
He still around? Did he ever answer for his crimes?
Are the offending videos still up?

> Whip attack
I have to say I can't recall it being *that* bad, are you emulating? Might be an issue from there.

> Mike kob
> article
What article?

To clarify, I don't know exactly which are the offending videos. It seems he's still uploading content to his YT channel. As noted, I just read about this yesterday.

>what article
This one:

https://mranimefan.wordpress.com/2016/11/25/taking-a-look-at-the-combat-mechanics-of-god-hand/comment-page-1/

I'm emulating yes, but I don't have any emulation issues. I also watched real PS2 footage, everything seems to work right, including AI behavior. I'm not using save states or cheats either.

Perhaps it's just the range that is too much, especially since you are being knocked down as well. Or maybe I just need to get better at dealing with it.

Barrel roll kick - Yes that's the one.

I find it useful when enemies are getting moving towards Gene, and sometimes even during their attacks if I'm at the right distance, which will count as a counter hit, Best example is the combination that has a spinning kick in it, that moment is perfect for all kinds of counter hits.

While riskier and trickier to pull off, I did manage to do it a few times when enemies did their jumping attacks (when one of them jumps above the other), and it also counts as a counter hit, though I can't pull this off consistently.

im not sure if anyone knows this, but has anybody tried the moveset switcher mod for god hand?

i tried and it made the game way too easy even on hard mode

I tend to not play emulation, so no clue. What does the mod do?