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The Evil Within 2

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251 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:39 am

I've seen Bick still hates this game. One thing I've noted over the years is that Bick is prone to extreme stubbornness to the point of irrationality. He's noted it's partly because of his expectations, so I don't really know what he expected out of an EW experience so to speak.

He was like this with MGR, citing on multiple occasions how he hated the dodging, usually the input and how it's also an attack. Same with DMC, he hated the dodging in that series too. He went on to make guides of MGR, DMC1-3-4 and DmC.

He's aware of God Hand, so I wonder what he thinks of that, he might hate the dodging there too haha. I'd love to see that guide, I feel like he'd hate it, then love it years later.

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252 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:41 am

Bick is Bick, he's a great guy but stobborn to a tee. I talked to him about The Evil Within 2 and it is just Chapter 3 that puts him off. He likes everything else, he just thinks the whole game is openworld and won't listen to reason. He'll see the light one day.

I still remember him smashing his MGR:R disc with a screwdriver haha...

About God Hand, he's played it and didn't care for it as it is too ugly. He can't really stand older games sadly in terms of graphics.

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253 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:58 am

I hear that a lot about GH, as far as I'm concerned it's not ugly at all, just has low detail environment textures so as to save resources(they where dying for fucks sake). To me many areas have a really goofy charm to them, many stages(say the carnival/stage 3 or Venice/stage 5) look like a fake stage play, cardboard cut-outs or something, like an old best em up stage from Final Fight or Streets of Rage(there even called stages).

The character models, particle effects and animations are superb to this day, let alone what the PS2 was capable of, that's not even an opinion just look at that shit! Genes character model is gorgeous. Suppose I should have saved this for the GH thread.

Chapter 3 isn't technically open-world, it's really an open-level. Also completely optional.

EDIT: oh yeh I played all the way until chapter 5 and stopped after the guardian boss. Really good so far, making use of all the info I've consumed, no thanks to multiple Roy-thrus ;p.

Also are knife prompts damage set or get boosts from melee damage upgrades? Also has anyone used the brass knuckles? I've seen footage and enemies heads don't fucken explode when you punch them, maybe they had low damage if that matters. Wonder if you can punch someone's arm off?

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254 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:44 pm

> God Hand visual
I like it for what it does, namely it serving gameplay first and formost.

> chapter 3 isn't technically openworld
A part I highly discuss in my article, I hope it brings some light to it.

> roy-thrus
HA! Fun term.

> knife prompts
What od you mean? The stealth attacks? They are set damage, scales with nothing.

> brass
Used them a bit, fun toy weapon. You can punch of heads, arms, legs, the works. Really fun to play with! Damage is a LOT lower though, on Nightmare a Lost can survive it (but not 3 haha).

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255 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:58 pm

Knife execution animation kills I mean. Doesn't matter query answered.

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256 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:06 pm

Ah! Yeah the knife-execution is a bit weird. Basically you get it if an enemy is beyond a certain damage threshold and you knife them twice in a row.

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257 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:32 pm

I've knifed an enemy and they fell over, don't know how that triggers beyond a damage threshold, I think they fall over when they have too much life to trigger the stunned state needed for knife executions.

Do knife executions have iframes?

Also, any use for the kick move? Does it have iframes, knock back foes and let you stomp them?

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258 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:48 pm

> knifed enemy falls over
Sometimes they just fall over if they take enough damage, it's random I think though some moves do have a fixed fall over stat. Like a shotgun to the chest will always make them fall over.

> knife execution
It's fully i.framed

> Kick
Mostly pointless, though it was quite usefull in my Knife Only run yesterday in the Cabin fight. Torres tends to stun foes easily with her machine gun, making the kick worth it. Sadly you cannot stomp after the kick, they don't enter the 'downed' state. It is fully i.framed and knocks enemies back and has a chance to decapitate.

Most special animations have i.frames. The only thing that overrules this is grabs, you can be grabbed out of your i.frames, even during a stealth kill.

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259 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:01 pm

Kick might be useful if your surrounded with no way out, so knock the group back and escape as opposed to just an execution. Would be much better if it knocked down the kicked foe, and maybe others right next to the kicked foe, maybe putting them into a stunned state for follow up kicks.

How much damage does it do(if any)? Does it scale with melee damage upgrades. Does it damage other foes?

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260 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:06 pm

> surrounded
Doubtful, if you are surrounded better to just use the shotgun. You cannot do the kick on command, it can only be done to a stunned foe which requires some work to setup. It is more a bonus, if you see someone stunned, a free kick is fun and nice. But it's not something to 'aim for' basically.

> damage
Not too big. I don't have the numbers, but it's around the damage of a unupgraded shotgun to the chest.

> scale
No.

> Damage to other foes
You can catch them in AOE. You can see it in action here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW4gA2-le6w#t=1h15m45s
(1 hour 15 minutes 45 seconds)

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261 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:23 pm

Had another stream of knife only, actually managed to knife Harbinger without stealth - really satisfying but took nearly half an hour of just hitting him and running back. I knifed straight through him multiple times, his hitbox is really bad. Currently stuck on the Fire Walk - don't think this is doable unless you get really lucky.

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262 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:56 am

Got all the way to chapter 11, stopped after I owned O'Neil. Luckily I didn't encounter any missing hit box shenanigans. I kept circling a pillar, blasted him with the shotgun, revolver and sniper a few times, done job m8. Dos Harbingers and their tech man, I tell ya, damn harbinger based cancels.

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263 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:34 am

Glad to hear you're enjoying the game man! What setting you playing at?

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264 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:46 am

Just beat it on nightmare(cuz I ain't no bitch). Just getting to chapter 3 on NG+, but I'll do a NUR on nightmare before doing classic.

It's pretty much what I wanted out of EW1, definitely adding this to my selection of horror games played each year.

EDIT: Yo dos brass knucks got a sick dirty overhand for its melee swing. #KnucksWithin.

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265 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:00 pm

Need some insight and discussion on this thing right here when it comes down to the Knife Only run, namely the Fire Walk. I have been trying this part for a while now, and I don't really see it being possible. I'm on New Game +++ on Survivor and can barely reach the first checkpoint without severe heal-spamming.

Some points:

  • the firezone is way too small to manevour, especially with the amount of running around needed to avoid double engagements while protecting your partner.
  • at some points the circle shrinks to such a small degree some attacks become unavoidable unless the auto-dodge rng kicks in (if you have that ability to begin with).
  • the enemies can randomly go into flame-mode, making them impervious to damage from the knife.
  • rng decides if you accidentaly knife off a limb, if you do so, might as well reset since it means the Disciple enemy gains a ranged moveset that allows him to cover parts of the already small arena in lava, making it unable to traverse.


So what are your guys opinion on this? Should it turn into a run exception? I'm not sure on this since I generally don't like it when a part becomes a run-exception, but I honestly don't see this being doable. Thoughts?

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266 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:19 pm

If it's too much trouble then call it an exception. Maybe spam infinite bottles or use knuckles to keep it melee only even if you have to cheat to do it.

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267 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:47 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Sounds like an exception to me.

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268 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:21 pm

I'm going to give it one final go this night, see if my new tactics prevail. Otherwise I'm calling it an exception yeah.

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269 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:43 pm

You note the stumble in your article, i found that bothersome too, takes away control from the player in combat got me hit a few times, more due to chance.

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270 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:34 pm

Yeah, I found it a strange little thing to be in the game especially considering how lethal it is. I've had a Guardian chase me in Chapter 7 only to 'stumble' randomly because one Lost saw me and get cut to ribbons. Weird design choice.

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271 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:13 am

One thing that's complete bullshit is that unavoidable grab by that enemy that just spawns when you pick up the laser pistol. I had low life and died because of it, it'd be fair if it couldn't kill(have the qte do no damage) you or you could spot and kill the guy before they grabbed you. So odd as you can kill other enemies lying under cars but this one spawns just for picking up the pistol.

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272 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:54 am

@Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote:One thing that's complete bullshit is that unavoidable grab by that enemy that just spawns when you pick up the laser pistol. I had low life and died because of it, it'd be fair if it couldn't kill(have the qte do no damage) you or you could spot and kill the guy before they grabbed you. So odd as you can kill other enemies lying under cars but this one spawns just for picking up the pistol.

Yeah I remember it happening and thinking it was just a cinematic moment like the one at the train-door. It killed me too, but after that you'll remember just to mash the buttons haha.

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273 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 am

So what's the damage numbers on guns? Aside from the revolver what's the next powerful pistol? I wonder if one pistol has a higher crit chance.

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274 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:04 am

Best data I could find: http://evilwithin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39655

There are no real damage numbers it seems, and with Mikami loving decimal values, not going to happen anytime soon I fear.

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275 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:59 am

The limbs regrowing is really neat, not something I'd expect. Reminds me of how re6 j'avo goons can mutate depending on what body part was shot, some crazy shit in that game, puts plagas to shame.

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276 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:11 pm

Pretty cool, John Johanas sent me a twitter message to thank me for playing "to the extremes" in his game. Really happy with that haha!

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277 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:04 pm

Birdman


Moderator
That's awesome.

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278 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:25 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Hey Roy you and your runs have triggered the insecurities if a few people on Gamefaqs LOL.

I love these types of comments like 'idk why anyone would do this lol'. Thinly veiled insults while trying to downplay another's achievements and enjoyment.

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279 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:28 pm

@Birdman wrote:Hey Roy you and your runs have triggered the insecurities if a few people on Gamefaqs LOL.

I love these types of comments like 'idk why anyone would do this lol'. Thinly veiled insults while trying to downplay another's achievements and enjoyment.


Typical gamefaqs! But which topic? Old one? New one? I have a ton of people blocked there... haha

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280 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:37 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Just a few comments on an old one. Nothing too serious but you can feel what they mean. I have tons of notifications from that board and was just going through them this morning.

I've seen the exact type of topics in various speedrunning topics over the years. They always start with 'I don't understand why' or something similar. Thing is they do understand but cant just come out with straight up insults so they stealth troll in an attempt to downplay what others have done. They understand and it hurts their little egos. Why voice how you 'don't understand'? It actually makes no sense. There's zero logic to voicing such a thing EVER. If you don't speedrun/challenge, then don't enter topics about it and get mad when people do cool stuff you can't.

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281 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:55 pm

This might be a good counter-pole, really good topic with insightful discussion and respect:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/601430/discussions/0/1621724915782060334/

No joke, I am surprised it exists.

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282 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:47 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Nice topic.

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283 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:10 am

Birdman


Moderator
First person mode added.

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284 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:09 am

I was here to post this haha, pretty cool that they added it in (it was already in the PC version and could be activated using console commands). Going to try it this weekend probably. One thing that DOES surprise me is the decision to show all, even the final, bosses in the trailer.

In other news, going to start doing my Knife Only Nightmare run this weekend probably.

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285 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Finally decided to start this up. Already did some other runs, including a melee-only on Survivor. I'm almost done with Chapter 4 now on this run. You can watch it here if interested: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw

I'll edit the streams down later this week to just the highlights. So far the general strategy has been killing everything with stealth kills for tons of Gel. Knifing the Spawn (dogs) is a fun experience though. 

Rules of the run:
- knife only, so no axes;
- bottles and stealth allowed;
- allowed to aim with a gun, not shoot;
- upgrading, keys and such are also allowed;
- all bosses must be knifed, including Obscura2, Harbinger and Laura;
- Crow allowed;
- new game, nightmare difficulty.

Run Exceptions:
- you have to open the gate in Chapter 3 with a stun-bolt;
- the Chapter 5 goo-boss can't be knifed, using unupgraded pistol there;
- the second part of the fire walk in Chapter 13 has been dubbed as 'impossible' to knife only, while I'm still not convinced but I can see why. One part has a very small arena and two Disciples coming for your blood. If 'impossible' I'll allow an unupgraded pistol there, but doubtful.
- you have to shoot some valves in Chapter 14;
- the final boss can't be knifed, using unupgraded pistol there.

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286 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:38 am


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287 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:40 am

Birdman


Moderator
I saw your topic and I'm looking forward to the insecurity posts lol.

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288 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:06 am



Really happy with this video haha!

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289 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:16 pm

They addded a 1st person mode now right?

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290 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:52 pm

Jup! Might do a runthrough with that one too (maybe on NG+ with infinite ammo for lolz). It just uses the First Person Mode from Chapter 4.

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291 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:49 pm

Birdman


Moderator
What's it like when running and turning, or if that auto dodge kicks in? Is it disorientating?

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292 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:16 pm

The game does a type of 'sway'. It isn't too disorienting (I've only played it for a few minutes in this mode, I prefer 3rd Person generally in all games). 

They still haven't gotten rid of the run-turn though. If you're grabbed or do any scripted animation (steathkill, stomp) and then hold run in another direction then Sebastian will just go nuts. Looks really weird.

In other notes: managed to save Sykes using just the knife. This was one of two parts that were dubbed 'impossible' to Knife (the other being Fire Walk). So 1 down, 1 to go.

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293 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:55 am

Just going to keep this bumped with some updates on the run, managed to Knife both the Sykes encounter in Chapter 7 and the whole Cabin fight in Chapter 10. That last one is especially nice, since most considered it to just be up to chance, but it really is skill and timing based mostly - as long as you know how the AI works. Still, doing this...wasn't easy haha. Should be smooth sailing until the Fire Walk now (though O'neal will be a bore...)

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294 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:55 am

Second to last update: I DID IT. Beat the whole game using the knife, including the Fire Walk which was dubbed 'impossible'.

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295 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:46 pm

Birdman


Moderator
How did you manage the fire walk?

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296 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:20 pm

A few things made it possible:

1. I'm not a streamer, so I don't call it quits after 5 failed attempts and burst out the shotty (shots fired haha)

2. I abused the first checkpoint. Basically I just redid the first section a ton of times until I got a good run in. Eventually I got through the first checkpoint by some miracle with using only 2 heals.

3. You can loop the Zealots after testing, though it is really hard. If you knife them they'll stagger, but knife them again and they'll counter you. But between that counter-frame and the 'i'm ready to attack again' frame is a window where if you attack them again they'll stagger anew. So you can keep them stuck in a stagger until they go flame-on mode. It is insanely hard and the timing is really tight, but it helped a lot. 

The rest was tanking through. The final two waves cost me all my healing items and 35 herbs in crafting to buckle through. The second to last wave is 6 Zealots in a row, and the wave after that is 4 with a small arena. 

Took about 3 hours of attempts, it really was the hardest part of the run. Knifing Laura was also good fun. The most fun boss to knife was Guardian. The Cabin Fight was the most fun 'encounter' to knife.

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297 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:48 am

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298 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:10 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm super impressed by the amount of work you've done on this game.

Sadly, while I like it, I just wasn't able to get that level of mileage out of it. I think this is in part due to how much I love horror games and how much they scare the crap out of me, but that only truly works first time. Also, this generation with it's cut-scenes, walky-talky segments, and long load times really make replaying a game like this over and over difficult. The game play is good, but I don't personally consider as enjoyable as others I replay forever like Fatal Frame, Haunting Ground, and RE4.

Those games, FF more than the others, are more replayable for being shorter, and sorta 'arcady' in a sense with lots of super fun mechanics and modes. FF's camera mechanics are great, and it has challenge modes with SS ranks to obtain. Their short length makes them fantastic for speedrunning too.

I'm going to start FF5 this weekend. Been waiting quite a while to play this. Hopefully I can get Horizon's DLC finished tonight.

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299 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:31 pm

Thanks man! I think for me it is because The Evil Within 2 finally feels like what I've been looking for for ages: Resident Evil 5 - the true successor to 4. It just has that little spark of gameplay and design for me that makes it like crack. I just keep on coming back to it. 

It also has just about the perfect length for me (around 4-5 hours if you skip the openworld nonsense (which I do for all my runs except Knife Only)). 

Not quite sure where to focus on next. Off camera I'll be playing Yakuza 5 while doing a 100% run of Yakuza 2 (PS2). Might finish up some NGB for Youtube, or dive into Shinobi (finally).

Still, this game. This fucking game. Looking back I recall only buying it on a whim. Can't imagine it becoming my most loved game this generation.

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300 Re: The Evil Within 2 on Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:14 am

Damage notes from Reddit user MyyBoi (https://www.reddit.com/r/theevilwithin/comments/8fogkg/evil_within_2_weapon_strength_breakdown/)

Default Health - 100 Default “Critical” Health - 30 Syringe Heal - 40

Upgrades:

Max Health Upgrades do not affect Critical Health amount

Critical Health Upgrades - 110%=40 120%=50

Enemy Damage:

[Classic] & [Nightmare] (150% Enemy Damage) Lost Axe to the Face - 48 Lost Thrown Axe - 30

[Survival] (Default Damage) Lost Axe to the Face – 32 Lost Thrown Axe - 30

[Casual] (50% Enemy Damage) Lost Axe to the Face - 16 Lost Thrown Axe - 30

Chapter 5 Guardian Starting Health: Nightmare - 1250 Survival - 1050 Casual - 975

Weapon Damage (Un-upgraded unless noted):

Shock & Smoke Bolt - 0 Freeze Bolt - 1 Knife - 7 Assault Rifle - 10 Laser-Sight Pistol - 18 Semi-Automatic Pistol - 20 Burst-Fire Pistol – 22 (x3) Harpoon Bolt – 60 Vehicle Oil Slick Fire (can be done twice) - 99 Full-Barrel Shotgun - 100 Sniper Rifle - 100 Sawed-Off Shotgun - 120 Explosive Bolt - 130 MAX Shock Bolt - 150 Brass Knuckles - 150 Magnum - 150 MAX Smoke Bolt - 232 MAX Harpoon Bolt - 660

Explosive Damage (Varies by Proximity):

MAX Explosive Bolt - 80-1080 Damage Barrel Explosion - ~203 Damage

Bullet Cascade Damage Per Shot:

Assault Rifle - 10,11,12,13 Semi-Automatic Pistol - 20,22,24,26 Magnum - 150,165,180,195

Some things to note:

*“Critical” Health is the health below the white tick you recover over time.

*I only tested briefly with the first lost by the dumpster after O’Neil’s Safehouse, but the axe it throws always did 30 damage to Seabass regardless of difficulty while his regular melee and his “quick slap” were both properly affected by the difficulty setting, meaning there might be other attacks in the game that don’t scale either.

*Weapon damage was tested on Chapter 5’s Guardian Boss. Upgrading critical hit chance on the pistol did no extra damage and “popping” her heads is a purely visual effect as far as I can tell. Weapons that are not explosive always do their exact damage; explosive damage seems to be based to how close they are to the blast but is fairly consistent.

*The shotgun’s damage upgrade is exactly as it says. All those weapon parts and you still just get +30% for maxing it. The game in general doesn’t seem to lie about upgrades. 25% Health Boost will bring Seabass’s HP from 100 to 125, ect.

*Shock and Freeze does not affect subsequent damage at all.

*Fire damage and the last smoke upgrade both have damage over time. As long as the enemy’s burning they are rapidly losing health. Smoke is slower than fire though.

*The Explosive Bolt is crazy with the last upgrade. The 80 damage is from a high-up headshot to the Guardian and none of the shrapnel hitting. The 1080 is a shot to her chest/upper legs and all shrapnel hitting. I would not be surprised if you could one-shot her on causal/survival with a very well placed shot. It tends to the low end though so don’t expect too much without maybe the focus upgrade and some self-testing. Un-upgraded it always seems to do exactly 130 damage. Weird.

*Bullet Cascade adds an additional 10% of the weapons base damage every shot after the first. So by a cascade of 10 each bullet does double damage and just keeps rising with the combo.

*Most of this testing was done on Nightmare difficulty. Damage done is not affected by the difficulty settings, only how much health enemies have, if that matters. I assume classic is the exact same as nightmare with the addition of its restrictions.

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