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Nioh general discussion

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TaiTsurugi
AeternalSolitude
hedfone
Nadster
TheFirmament1
RedShot
Birdman
Gabriel Phelan Lucas
Royta/Raeng
13 posters

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101Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:27 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

I keep bouncing off this game, but I'm gonna try and make this work this time.

I don't know why but the combat hasn't clicked for me yet. I don't really understand how to be aggressive. I always end up being cautious and just kinda dodge in and out of enemie's attack range taking pot shots where I can.

The weapon leveling is also confusing to me. Whenever I pull up any stats menu, my eyes just glaze over. Every time I boot up this game I kinda feel bombarded with information.

I know this post is scattered, and know I'm not really complaining about the game, but for whatever reason this game befuddles me. It seems there are a few Nioh vets around here, so some advice on the basics would be appreciated! OR alternatively if anyone could recommend any good tutorials. A lot of the ones I've seen don't really talk about combat techniques much.

102Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:52 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
C-Rank

The first step if you want to learn mechanics and how to play aggressively is understanding how to Flux I and II. This together with the one that let's you ki pulse while dodging (I think it's called flowing water or something) are vital to be able to keep the offensive. For most humans learning how to flux is usually enough as they stagger easily and you can keep the offensive even if they block by just staggering your attacks. For Yokai, at a base level, focus on depleting their ki first. Most of the weapons have an efficient way to deplete ki, I'll use sword as an example as it's one of the more straightforward. Against most yokai, start by playing it safe when they have their ki, go in and out and use Kick or Sword Ki, once their ki is gone start to go on the offensive and take note of what they do when they regain their ki, some of them are open when they do so you can reset the offensive and either do some damage or start depleting the ki again.
Other general stuff is to use low stance, when you want to dodge, with it you can chain dodges without getting a roll, it's also a good poking tool as you can easily dodge back after most attacks. With Sword in low stance you have the dash attack which is an amazing approach tool, once you are in a bread and butter is a combo in mid and then flux into low if you need to dodge or in high for a triangle finisher for good damage.
Start by playing it safe like this, once you start to understand how your enemies and weapon works, experiment with the various opening and see what you can do with them.
If you have a problem in particular with either an enemy or a weapon let me and I'll try and help you as best as I can. Explaining general stuff without being able to show it is kinda hard.

For the more advanced tech you can check out this tutorial by Last to Load, it's made in Nioh 2 but most of the tech can also be used in 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56og5N0qlnY&list=PL6K4hxM_v9JCJxgTwgmkK3b0F34mx89Bz&index=12

Regarding stats is kinda complicated. During the first playtrough you don't really need to pay attention to them too much, just use wathever has more attack and defense while maintaning the agility level you prefer. The only way to learn them is to take the time to check their tooltip when you have some time, take it one step at a time.
If you find any set you like feel free to just craft it and use it, once you see that it starts to be a bit too weak just craft it again at your current level.
Levelling up equipment is not something you should do untile you get Divine in NG+. Divine have + value to them and you can soul match other +value to them to increase it:
so if you have a 150+1 and soul match it with a 150+1 (or better) you will get a 150+2 and so on and so forth.
Finally, if you are interested in creating a strong build instead, your best bet is to check out some of the build guides and see what type of stats they stack and try to apply them to what you want to do. Keep in mind that creating build is something you do starting in NG+1 at the earliest, as you don't have all of the tools before that point.

If you have more specific question just ask, I don't consider me a veteran of the game, but I'll try to help as best as I can.

Royta also knows a lot more than me regarding Nioh 1 in particular and I'm sure it will be glad to help.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

103Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:15 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

WOW!!! Big reply!!! But helpful.

I've seen some tutorials suggest throwing tons of debuff items at yokai to whittle their ki down. I wouldn't be against doing that for some bosses, but for every generic Yokai I come across it seems a bit much.

What attacks generally do more ki damage? I've kinda assumed heavy attacks do; but maybe it's like the final hit in a combo or something. Since I take more damage from behind (I think), I've assumed the enemies do as well. So I've been largely dodging yokai and heavy armor units to get behind them. But sometimes I can stun-lock them for a big combo and sometimes they auto correct to face me. So I'm not confident this is an effective strategy.

Can combos flow fluidly between stances? This is strangely something I've never thought of or tried. Sometimes I'd bait someone to into a high attack and then do a low rush combo, but nothing too fancy. Every combo for the stances seemed kinda canned so I didn't experiment much. But I'll certainly try now.

Ki pulsing while dodging sounds nice. I need it.

I started with the spear, which is fun, but have switched to Dual Swords and Kusarigama, because I wanted to have a Ninja build. It seems the game expects you to weapon swap. But I don't know if certain weapons go better together then others. Guess I shouldn't worry about it just yet.

Weird thing to complain about, but I've definitely had issues with the game dropping dodge and d-pad inputs. I've died a couple times because of it. Has anyone else had these issues?

But anyway, thanks for the long reply TAI! It's crazy to me how much time people take sometimes to be helpful. I'll take a look at the tutorial a bit later.


104Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:42 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
C-Rank

You're welcome, I'm happy to help when I can

>Using Buffs and Debuffs
It depends on how you want to play the game. It can be played as pure action game avoiding all of this and the overpowered stuff or you can play Diablo-style with an op build that destroy everything in seconds. Most people play the op build way and that is the exact reason why finding people talking about mechanics is so rare.I higly advise you yo play it more as action game tho, it has a great depth of mechanics and if you go the Diablo route you don't use any of them.
Regarding buffs and debuffs in particular you can still use them and experiment with it, some of them (like Sloth Talisman which slows down enemies) can easily trivialize encounters so it all depends on what balance you want to find. They are not needed tho, you can do everything without them once you learn the mechanics.

>Ki damage
Generally speaking "blunt" attacks do more ki damage, so stuff that uses kicks,attack with the hilt etc.
But it greatly depends on the weapon, Tonfa for example excels in destroying ki all around. Other than that there some stats that increase the ki damage that you do to the enemy. And finally most Yokai have a weak spots (Yoki's horns for example) that if you destroy it will bring their ki to 0 immediatly, but you can do it only 1 for Yokai.
Attacking from behind does more damage, but doesn't do anymore ki damage.
For some example good ki damage moves are (the names are from Nioh 2 so some of the could be a bit different:
Sword: Kick and Sword Ki
Dual Sword: God of Wind (the rotating kick move)
Spear: Pole Kick
Tonfa: Shove,Sweeping Kick,Double Kick
Odachi: Crashing Waves and Tail Strike
Kusarigama: Tangle Strike
Axe:Southpaw

There are a lot more option tho, so feel free to experiment with the different weapons.

>Combo Flow

Generally you can't start a combo in one stance and finish it in another. What you can do is Ki Flux after finishing a combo (or during it) to then start another from another stance and keep up the pressure. Here's an example with the sword:

Quick=Square
Heavy=Triangle
Ms=Mid Stance
Ls= Low Stance
Hs= Heaby Stance



Here I do, Ms quick,heavy (Kick), Ki Flux into Ls, Sword Ki, Ki Flux into Hs, Hs quick, heavy (Morning Moon) and then finish with an Iai strike. As you can see you can keep up the pressure while managing your ki.

There are also weapons that let you change stances mid combo. In Nioh 1 you have the Odachi that has some skills, that let you use an attack in Ms and follow it up with one in Ls and other combination. Here's an example:



Ms heavy,heavy,quick (Sunset Breeze: Earth which changes me to Ls), Ls quick,heavy (Waking Winds: Heavens that makes me finish with an heavy in Hs) and then an iai finish.

>Weapons pairing
There are definetly ones that work better together either because they compliment each other or because they scale with the same Stat, but you use what you find more fun as every weapon is viable once you understand how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

105Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:06 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Great post Tai! Your work reminds me a lot of Kagerasimaru's, you familiar with him? He's a big Nioh fan/player/YTer too. Great little videos you have there, short and concise. Great job!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

106Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:29 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
C-Rank

Thanks Roy! I tried to be as clear as possible as I'm not the best at explaining stuff.
I really like Kagerasimaru's content, I follow him on and off since the first Nioh and I learned a lot from his videos especially some tech regarding the Katana, the guy is a beast.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

107Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:00 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

When I played Nioh I used the spear exclusively for a while. Got really got at poking at max range with the mid attack I think. I liked to throw down those spikey things and stab from the opposite side with a poison coated spear. Didn't really work out.

108Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:15 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Alright I'm an idiot. I didn't even notice the "Learn Skill" tab until Tai mentioned some abilities I hadn't heard of and I went hunting. Turns out I had tons of "Samurai Skillpoints" or whatever built up. Don't know how I missed it.

Figured out the issue of the dropping dodge inputs. Turns out it's just that the running animation starts insanely fast and if your taps are even a few frames too long William starts running. I just didn't notice in the heat of battle. My muscle memory is still struggling with it but at least I know now.

I'm still referring back to Tai's posts every now and then. I think I'm getting the hang of the game now. I was confused and put off by the stats and grinding stuff. I don't like Diablo or Borderlands personally so I kept wondering if this game was even for me. But now I'm learning how to counter enemies a bit and play it more like an action game and it's a lot better. I'm still trash but at least I'm having fun now.

Some questions

-> Do bosses have similar weak spots to yokai for depleting Ki

-> Should I COMPLETELY ignore the blacksmith or grinding until NG+? (Edit) You kinda already answered this one my bad.

-> Should I level up Ki or health at all? I've been pumping my weapon stats
   exclusively.

err... that's it.

Seriously though Tai. Your two post's have been more helpful then all the tutorials I've seen put together. Thanks again!

109Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:24 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

@Birdman

The Spear is great! I realized how dependent I was on it's range after switching to Dual-Swords. The second boss only took me like 3 attempts with the Spear, but with the DS I died 20 times straight.

Birdman wrote:I liked to throw down those spikey things

Caltrops right? I didn't know they were in the game. They're not useful?

110Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:31 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
C-Rank

Glad I could help Smile

>Not finding "Learn Skill" tab

Don't feel bad about it, the UI and the tooltips in this game are really confusing. A lot of stuff is not really explained and the menus are convoluted. You'll get used to it tho.

>Bosses weak points

Some of them do. You can , for example, break Onryoki's (the first boss) horns.

>Level up

For how I play I heavily focus on increasing Ki as much as possible and I usually don't put much on health. It all depends on how you feel comfortable, don't be afraid to experiment as later you can respec at any moment just by buying a Book of Reincarnation. Also weapon stats are not that important, they do increase damage don't get me wrong, but it's not that big of a difference. Most of your damage comes from weapon and armor stats, so feel free to also put points in other stuff if you want too.
Some people even just level every stats evenly (so all 5, then all 6 and so on) and while It's not something I personally like or would recommend on a first playtrough, it is still a viable way to play.

One last thing regarding stats, armor have stats requirment to be used (you can find them on the bottom of the stat page). You can still equip them even if you don't meet the requirments, but the stats and bonuses on them will not activate (they appear dark). If you craft a piece of equipment you the requirments gets halved, so if you don't want to invest in that particular stats, but want a specific piece just craft it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

111Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:04 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Bought Nioh 2 on a whim when the Claws DLC was announced, so far have a lot of fun. It really feels like a much improved version of the original. Mostly using the Splitstaff currently since I want something new, which is part of the reason why I didn't buy the game originally since the new weapons didn't appeal to me. Just finished the first two levels and some side stuff.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

112Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:54 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

I got the Platinum for Nioh yesterday and have already moved on to Nioh 2 (got the season pass as well). I'm still only in the first region but so far so good.

- Really enjoying the enemies, they seem quicker and more aggressive then in Nioh 1.

- Sounds in general I've noticed seem a lot better, weapons sound super sharp now.

- Weapons no longer clang off walls which is my favorite improvement so far.

Not much else to talk about for me yet. Still just using the weapons I'm used to. How you liking the Splitstaff so far Roy?

113Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The Yokai abilities really steal the show for me so far!

Splitstaff is great but still need to unlock more moves with it. Love how the 'hold' button deals bonus damage and ki-damage, very well designed weapon imo.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

114Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:23 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

- Yokai Abilities
I immediately noticed when you hold heavy attack you absorb Amrita in a very familiar way. Great stuff...

115Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:58 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

About half-way through the second world now, still having a good time. I kind of like how each weapon now has its own skill-point which I was originally against. It really allows you to constantly switch between them and it is even benefitial since they all generate Samurai Points. Just replayed an older stage yesterday with the Hammer to try that weapon out and had a blast honestly.

My biggest gripe is how the stages still aren't that interesting. In terms of design, verticality, using the enviroment to hide dangers, in all those terms it is generally good level design. But they are all so bland. The music is muted. Every stage is dark with burnt down houses.
I know this is kind of "wanting everything to be DMC" but then with Ninja Gaiden haha, but I just wish they'd put in more extremes here. Some good pumping music, action setpieces and more fantastical enviroments instead of 'dark cave' and 'dark burnt down village'. Every stage sort of blends together for me now. Almost would wish it was just grey corridors at times.

On a more positive note, really love those Yokai abilities even more, that you can use them as cancels when out of Ki is brilliant. Do feel I lean too much to the Feral-counter right now, how are the other two?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

116Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:05 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

- Counters
Is Feral-Counter the dashing one? That's what I've been using, haven't tried any others yet.

Haven't played in a couple of days (October hit and I went right into replaying RE4). Last time I played I beat the guy with the Elephant spirit.
Were you able to Burst-Counter his Elephant lightning attack? It has the tell of a burst attack, but I couldn't seem to find the right timing.



Last edited by AeternalSolitude on Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

117Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:57 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
C-Rank

That is where the Brute Counter comes in handy, it's an attack so when the enemy goes red you can immediatly interrupt it with it even if it's not attacking or if it's still in the anticipation phase.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

118Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:02 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

-Counters
Oh ok... So can some attacks only be countered with Brute or is it just easier to do so?
Recently swapped to Phantom and so far I prefer it to Feral. Sometimes after a counter I immediately go into a Yokai Shift grapple. Not sure what causes it to happen or if it's unique to Phantom.

Bosses in general seem like a big step up from Nioh 1! Today I fought the forest-squirrel thing and it's definitely my favorite so far.

119Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:35 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

That's interesting regarding the brute-counter, never thought of it that way. Currently really abusing Shadow Form, its counter is more of a royal-guard which I use to keep my agression up!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

120Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:09 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
A-Rank

Quick note, don't we have a thread for Nioh 2 already?

121Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:35 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

Some time ago I decided to try again this game and it was the right choice. I finished the main story on Way of the Samurai and now I'm doing the first DLC. I'll do the three DLCs to skip Way of the Strong so the path to the last difficulty will be shorter.

I want to transform William in a member of the Hayabusa Clan who can use all weapons effectively. Is it possible or, for example, an odachi can be used only by a certain build on WotN? I don't like talismans, magic or stealth tools because I feel they don't add much value to the game and, at the same time, they trivialize parts of it. So, do you have any advice for this build, necessary stats, etc.?

122Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It's been a while since I played the original, but as long as you put most stats up to 18 you can use every weapon as I remember it. The rest of the elements, it really depends on how you want the game to function. If you're not into debuffs, magic and other tools I would guess most bosses will get very lengthy down the line. Once you get instantcasting it can help speed up the process though and I would recommend at least some minor buffs like Powerpill for increased attack power, an elemental buff and perhaps a talisman to boost Ki Recovery.

I personally never really used the more offensive magix.

It would help to focus for the end-game on a high damage setup in some form or fashion if you want to get some enjoyment out of it. It doesn't have to be too high, but for example some bosses later-on (especially in Abyss i.e. Bloody Palace) can really take a pounding. Gear stats become very important then.

Let me know if you have any other more specific questions, I can search around or ask a vet to join the forum to help you out. I still know a few from back then.

Should add, Nioh 2 really is Nioh 1+. If you're going to put time into a game I'd honestly recommend putting it in that game. It has everything Nioh 1 has and more more more. It really is one of those games that doesn't change a lot with the sequel, but instead just refines what was there and adds a ton more shit (enemies, weapons, movesets, bosses, abilities, mechanics).

Let me know!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

123Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:19 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

I've put all my stats up to 20 and it's fine for now. I'm doing the dual bosses submissions and DLC areas and it seems balanced. Going from B to A agility it's awesome, I won't ever go back to B. I'd like to have all weapons' skills at the same time but it is impossible, isn't it? Several armors are beautiful but the Hayabusa Set... Looks aside, is it good for Way of the Nioh and the Abyss?

>vets
I read useful information here and I found some videos about techniques few days ago, but if I have specific questions thanks for the offer Wink

>Nioh 2
Doesn't it have a bigger focus on counters thanks to yokai's abilities? It seems interesting but different, so the first game could remain important per se, such as Ninja Gaiden (2004).

124Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:31 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It has counters, but also a better Ki system imo. In Nioh 1 it is more about draining the ki, and when you do, the enemy is toast. In Nioh 2 enemies have a max-Ki, and by draining their ki you also lower the max-ki. If you drain their Ki, and attack them, you'll damage their max-ki even more. If you get their max to Zero you can do a special finisher. It makes it a lot more offense based. The same goes thanks to the Yokai abilities which are true cancels that can cancel any and all animations you have which really speeds up gameplay.

Nioh 1 is fantastic though don't get me wrong, and you are super super super busted in the game which they severely toned down in Nioh 2 (lot less super overpowered derpy builds). I just like Nioh 2 more. The level design and enemies also got a good overhaul.

The counters are more reactive, nothing too special. Though the fact that you now have a Royal Guard-esque move is just gamebreaking fun imo.

> Hayabusa Set
If you can get it to 200 Toughness, you're set. Unless you want super super broken builds, it is the best set in the game. The end-game and Abyss are mostly Yokai, and the True Dragon Sword has a 40% damage buff against them which is nuts. I used it exclusively and managed to do a lot of cool fights with it. I did buff my Iai with some stats though so I could nuke the more boring bosses.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

125Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:16 am

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Might look into Nioh 2 if they release a complete edition.

It dropped to $28 here not long ago. I figured it was because complete was coming.

126Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:58 am

RedShot


B-Rank

>Nioh 2's counters and ki
They seem great mechanics to speed up the game. Are enemies more aggressive?

>Hayabusa Set
200 Toughness, got it. I've already dropped this set fighting against some revenants but I don't know if I can enhance it beyond lv 150 at this point. I have some weapons lv 150+2 but armors seem more difficult to obtain.

By the way, right now I'm against Sarutobi Sasuke and damn... what a great boss! I'm really loving these DLCs, I missed some ninja dogs haha. There are some crazy submissions with a lot of enemy waves and bosses, I imagine the Souls crowd didn't expect those difficulty spikes, thanks Team Ninja Laughing

127Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:34 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The Soulscrowd pretty much left Nioh after the second boss in the campaign. The game really doesn't work well for bait-punish mentalities, you really have to play more agressive.

> nioh 2 enemies
Somewhat, there's more agressive enemies for sure and its harder to drain their ki fully. You can still lock nearly everything down though.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

128Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:58 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

I've completed the main missions of the DLCs, then I've beaten again the final boss and lastly I have entered the Way of the Demon. I've only done a sub mission in the first region and there were nice improvements: red enemies, more aggressive mobs and advanced yokai. Was the alpha harder than this?

I tried the Hayabusa mission and it's a fantastic fight. I hope I can unlock all of those moves.

Is it a good idea to level up guardian spirits? If so which one should I choose?

129Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:09 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The Alpha was mostly just very different. Twilight Missions saw bosses get additional foes and the Ki system worked very different. If your ki hit zero you immediately went into your 'out of breath' stance which was very deadly. Stats were also a lot less prevalent and more a side-thing.

> guardian spirits
Just upgrade the ones you are using.

> hayabusa
You can unlock a few! :)

https://stinger.actieforum.com

130Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:00 am

RedShot


B-Rank

>Alpha
It would be interesting to play it.

>guardian spirits
It's time to enhance my lv1 Kato.

>Hayabusa's moves
Good to know. Is Izuna Drop useful in this game?

131Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:46 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The Alpha is sadly unavailable. Not sure the modding community ever went far on the PC to be able to retrofit it. The few BETAs that followed had already removed a lot which made me pretty pissed at the time haha. The original Alpha was just absolutely fucking brutal. Items like Salt were also a lot more important.

> Izuna
It's fun, but not fantastic. Iai'ing a out-of-ki foe will always be more efficient than any grapple. But style is worth a lot too!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

132Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:40 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

Ok, I need help. I've reached Way of the Wise but I don't know how to survive at least one hit. My stats are: lv 270, 3500hp, 210+20 random gear, my damage reduction should be around 20%. Should I farm a specific set, use the blacksmith in a certain way or?
The game is getting better and better action-wise, but I hit the rpg wall haha.

133Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:06 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The game is very much black and white, if you're a Light Armour build (like most are) you'll generally die in a single hit. If you want to survive two or three hits you'll really need heavy armour.

There are ways around it, there's a phoenix-stat (not sure about the name) that makes it so that when you die from a single hit you'll be left with 1HP instead, iirc you can get that one to 100%, making it impossible to die from a OHKO (think God Hand's hp mechanic).

You can also use the Quick Change Scroll if you're into that.

But yeah dying quickly and painfully is sadly part of the deal.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

134Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:13 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

I can survive most hits with 4000hp and 27% damage reduction. My damage is low but it's a problem only during boss fights. For example Tachibana and Li Naomasa are too tanky (with my current setup) in WotW. Nue is still easy so no problem, fake Tachibana is easier than the real one.
Now I'm doing the main mission where you have to fight Yuki Onna, I hope to find better weapons.

135Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:06 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

Way of the Nioh is fun to play when you have some decent gear. I got burned out reaching it and doing other side missions (hair locks, huh?) so I need a pause with something else.
I really underestimated this game. It's not as good as Ninja Gaiden, but its merits elevate Team Ninja at the top of this generation.

136Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:01 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

One thing I've felt with Nioh is that it is far better to experience it on launch. As a result you have 'time' to go through a difficulty, experience it's nuances, get better gear etc. before the next expansion-pack hit. I experienced Nioh 2 when everything was already out and by the time you reach the difficulty you want you're nearly burned out.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

137Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:43 pm

Tyr

Tyr
D-Rank

I've just finished Way of the Strong. I’m level 126, and I’ve played the first half with odachis, and the second with katanas. I’ve not really used the onmyo/ninjutsu yet. The start of the WotD is quite challenging, and I think I’m gonna learn more advanced combat techniques before going on (I’ll have a good look at ninjutsu/onmyo too).


I've wanted to put my impression of the game in words, but my feelings about it have been changing.



I think it was a mistake to structure the game like a story. I understand it is expected from a game nowadays, otherwise the players who write online reviews by sections (most of them) will start their writing with : "STORY : 0/10".
The problem with a story (a first playthrough at least) is that you want to finish it. It undermines the most interesting part of action games : mastery.
You most often beat a new creature with precautions, chance, and tricks. And the game says : "alright, you can go on". And that's ok because if the game said : "hey no, you must beat it with more honesty, try again", then of course it becomes really hard to finish the story and you quit, or bear the pain.

I think the game should have announced clearly from the start : "there is an end to this game but maybe 1% of the players will get there. Here are all the missions, except a few of them, unlockable if you’re really invested". And then you can take your time. Practice the missions you deem interesting. "Spending three hours to beat two Raven Tengus and an Onyudo seamlessly ? Yeah I want to do that".
And if you really need a story, just read it on the loading screens.



For the most part, the levels are lackluster. A playthrough should be only half as long as it is. There are many identical parts. "Oh, a corridor with a ninja. Done. What's next ? Two ninjas ? Nope, still one ... And the five next corridors ? Still one...." Of course the identical parts are not next to each other, but still.

On the next playthroughs, I believe most of the issued of the game are gone. You choose your missions, and you can skip the parts that don’t interest you. That’s why I still can’t give my opinion about the whole game.



I dislike the lock-on. Why deprive the players of the satisfaction to land a hit at the right spot ?
But of course I’ve used it, for convenience, (I always ended up moving the camera in isometric mode). You also might have noticed the camera isn’t kind to you when you fight near walls…
However, an isometric mode would have inevitably forged a game of a different nature.
Providing more open spaces is a solution to camera issues. For cramped places, a fixed camera is best I believe.


The good ? The combat is fast, precise, exciting.

138Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:09 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The joy of Nioh isn't there imo until you beat it thoroughly yeah and you just play it as an action game with a ton of maps with different enemylayouts/ waves without the story. Apparently the story is very, very well received in Japan as it is (so I'm told) a beautiful retelling of Japanese history, but for me a lot was lost in translation and not actually knowing said history and figures outside of a very few (Oda, the Black Samurai etc.). Also feel the co-op was really underselled and they kind of realized this later-on. In Nioh 1 originally you both had to have beaten a mission for it to be able to be co-oped. This was patched later and a staple in Nioh 2.

I think the lock-on was a terrible move as well, since it immediately makes a game 1v1. And William (and in part two, Hide) are just in a totally different ballpark than any enemy in terms of mobility and speed that the only way a 1v1 enemy can play ball with you is massive hyper-armour/ damage output/ health or other gimmicks. They realized this a bit in Nioh 2 with some DLC foes, but generally speaking, you're just a brokenly powerful Team Ninja protagonist beating on weak-ass Dark Souls rejects.

How are you liking the RPG aspects to it?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

139Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:16 pm

Tyr

Tyr
D-Rank

I haven't really be sensitive to RPG aspects yet.

I spend my points in my main stat and some others when necessary, without noticing much difference. I also spend two minutes regularly to get rid of my huge quantity of items.
In short, I relieve myself of points and items. It is a bit like urination.

A nice quantity of items dropped is supposed to create a positive reaction in the brain, but for that, the items need to be potentially game-changing. So far, drops have only been providing very slight improvements, and I don't even look at what I'm picking anymore.

I've been able to unlock almost all my skills very fast and that's a good point.

While the endgame might bring meaning to the drops (build-making items,...), I've read that some builds can break the game. It is the danger of an uncontrolled RPG-side. I don't see why Team Ninja would have wanted that (maybe they did), at the age of the Internet, in which one man getting the idea of an overpowered build is resulting in everyone playing it.
(In a diablo-like, being overpowered isn't a problem because the player skills are not at the center of the game. What matters is how much stuff you can accumulate. I don't know whether you can find accumulation pleasure or not in Nioh...).

I think RPG elements are a good motivator in general. But here, I would have preferred a rating system and/or a timer instead.

140Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:30 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

I think it's very hard to handle well the RPG aspects and this title is full of semi-hidden stats to take care of (toughness, just to name one). At the beginning you're overwhelmed by different numbers, loot and game systems, but after a while it becomes easier to understand and to see the whole picture.

There are some crazy builds like ranged ones that destroy every enemy in a matter of seconds with shurikens, guns or magic, but at the same time you can use stats to toy with enemies in a more balanced way. For example, you can confuse an enemy after applying two or more status effects or use magic to destroy yokai's horns. There are a lot of possibilities.

I wish there was a specific setting with fixed stats and RPG aspects, like the LV1 mode in KH2FM, but this game works in a different way. If you feel you're too strong you can use low level weapons or change your character's level. It's a compromise but it's still there. The Action part is so well done that I can tolerate the rest and even find several merits to enhance the combat system.

141Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:18 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The items are a tad weird yeah, on the one hand there are a few that can influence the way you play the game through a stat combination i.e. the phoenix-stat allowing you to always have 1HP remaining (negating OHKO shots) or the gun-tonfa stat that adds a move to the Tonfa.

But generally speaking it doesn't appeal to me. Finding it more interesting recently in Grandia 2, a turn-based RPG, where weapons are more changes to movement or ability i.e. "do an extra attack" or "you teleport instead of walk to the enemy" which are cool modifiers.

In terms of Nioh, it's best to dis-assemble them if you're interested in the end-game. You'll need a ton of materials if you want to craft a decent set.

> overpowered builds
And very easily might I add. Some are still in the game, some constantly got nerfed, which was the wrong way to go about it I feel. Nerfing one build just made the next in line the most potent. In a game where you've got stats like "buff iai-damage done by 50%" and with this many stat-types and modifiers to stack, you can't balance. Either accept that player creativity to nuke things from orbit, or don't give the option in the first place.

> specific stat mode
Yeah I've been clamouring for something like that too. World of Warcraft ironically has a pretty good take on this called "Heirloom Armour", which is armour that levels with you. Would be neat if Nioh 3 would have an armour set that just is the level of the stage you're doing.

Now you're constantly balancing your gear and stats so that a stage isn't either a 5 second snoozefest or a 5 hour bore.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

142Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:48 am

GodModeGOD

GodModeGOD
B-Rank

Nioh has a lot of pros/cons to consider, but the con aspect of RPG I had greatest disdain for (beyond even the Diablo onslaught of garbage loot to sort through) is the consequence of their attempts to balance (even in vanilla). What they favor (or don't), the disparity between weak and strong builds, etc. As Royboy notes, depending on stats (but more so gear arrangement *not really player skill in most instances*) you either have to chip to an ultra extreme degree or obliterate in seconds with sometimes actually no fight to speak of. It is even worse than Souls in this regard.

My set-ups rode the line for a sweet spot with enough damage to keep capable of fighting (avoiding one-shots and not killing bosses in just a handful of punishes). So I could have an experience where I was learning the battle (and it was necessary to do so). For a challenge runs, however, one may not even be able to escape (depending on how far you go) the cruel fate of being ineffectual with autistic focus on the most potent things available (and executing well). Even just a proper NUR+ spells disaster (before talking about what a PAIN/PAIN+ would be). This is a pretty damning issue.

While I was able to enjoy vanilla by just limiting myself slightly (knowingly avoiding the most absurd options) as I slowly progressed through the drip-feed releases of DLC and higher settings...I just don't think there was much hope for challenge runs even had I gotten the time to finish the '100%' (of missions) I intended before checking into such things. The eventuality of trying to use lvl1 white gear would have been disastrous in no time at all. I find it deeply regrettable that gear rules to that extent (even beyond abilities *and stats*). More than that, gear 'level' (and what RNG garbage is on it *before you try to adjust it*). I favor runs like NUR+ in particular, but this game is very, very poorly suited to it. Even a NUR (as I recall) would be a really questionable way to spend time (on the first setting alone).

Much could be said, but I'm rusty and don't feel like putting in the work to discuss it. Just know that I fucking despise the favoring of DEX fairies and their faggy dodging weebshit style. They have a path to power, but there is no way in Hell to actually make a tank (high DEF), no-selling (poise), guard crushing (break *if I remember right*), block monster (fuck parry, just 100% negate attacks without losing a ton of stamina*) with even trash damage. It isn't a thing. At all. You can't even have one of those things in exchange for everything else being bad. Even by end-game with the final DLC and super secret mission WotN bullshit, you absolutely have no paths (Abyss won't change this) to realizing such a thing.

The game refuses any of these aspects legitimacy. You get fucking nothing and should eat shit for trying. That's the stance the game takes. At best you can play pretend as an over-leveled WotN type making for such a build and go all the way back to the original setting (and still the early bits) and pretend it isn't so. Again, it is worse than Souls in these regards. It strongly promotes the stance switching mechanic while avoiding attacks (at worst, parrying them with good timing). That is how they want you to be. That there are other options is mostly for laughs. You are to feel the heat at your ass for even thinking of straying from God's light. Needing dumb-ass magic set-ups to pretend otherwise is sad, too (to say nothing for trying to be a mage in this series *should have gone ninja*). Don't want to get one-shot? Your armor ain't the way. Better learn arcane arts (or have a good 'buddy'). Despicable.

143Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:01 pm

HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

Gonna start playing this game soon I think, someone I know wants to do co-op. I know there's RPG stat stuff, and I hear you can ignore it kinda sorta maybe? Not really interested in one-shotting stuff personally, I've had my fill of that type of thing.

My question is this: how should I approach the game if I want to enjoy it as an action experience? What should I ignore, what should I pay attention to? Any other tips for enjoying the game would also be appreciated.

144Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:29 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

If you want to play it as an action game (assuming you're playing Nioh 2, though in a sense it also goes for Nioh 1):

- at the end of every stage or region (up to you) update your weapon to the one with the highest attack stat. I tend to have one weapon of each type so I can play around. You can just 'lock' these in place. The rest you'll just sell or disassemble at the smith.

- be sure to explore and use abilities, in Nioh 2 usage determins skill points for weapons and abilities. So use them.

- level up each stat to 10 for starters, then to 20. This allows you to use just about everything.

That helped me at least!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

145Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:54 pm

HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

Nioh 1 because it was on sale, and the PC port of Nioh 2 is kinda broken apparently? Thanks for the tips though!

146Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:19 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Those tips should still carry over mostly. Nioh 2 works fine, at least for me, at least...it did. On launch haha. Not sure about now Razz

https://stinger.actieforum.com

147Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:18 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
A-Rank

Just an FYI for any PC players, the complete edition of the first Nioh is free on the Epic Launcher until 16/09.

Sponsored content



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