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101Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:27 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
I keep bouncing off this game, but I'm gonna try and make this work this time.

I don't know why but the combat hasn't clicked for me yet. I don't really understand how to be aggressive. I always end up being cautious and just kinda dodge in and out of enemie's attack range taking pot shots where I can.

The weapon leveling is also confusing to me. Whenever I pull up any stats menu, my eyes just glaze over. Every time I boot up this game I kinda feel bombarded with information.

I know this post is scattered, and know I'm not really complaining about the game, but for whatever reason this game befuddles me. It seems there are a few Nioh vets around here, so some advice on the basics would be appreciated! OR alternatively if anyone could recommend any good tutorials. A lot of the ones I've seen don't really talk about combat techniques much.

102Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:52 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
The first step if you want to learn mechanics and how to play aggressively is understanding how to Flux I and II. This together with the one that let's you ki pulse while dodging (I think it's called flowing water or something) are vital to be able to keep the offensive. For most humans learning how to flux is usually enough as they stagger easily and you can keep the offensive even if they block by just staggering your attacks. For Yokai, at a base level, focus on depleting their ki first. Most of the weapons have an efficient way to deplete ki, I'll use sword as an example as it's one of the more straightforward. Against most yokai, start by playing it safe when they have their ki, go in and out and use Kick or Sword Ki, once their ki is gone start to go on the offensive and take note of what they do when they regain their ki, some of them are open when they do so you can reset the offensive and either do some damage or start depleting the ki again.
Other general stuff is to use low stance, when you want to dodge, with it you can chain dodges without getting a roll, it's also a good poking tool as you can easily dodge back after most attacks. With Sword in low stance you have the dash attack which is an amazing approach tool, once you are in a bread and butter is a combo in mid and then flux into low if you need to dodge or in high for a triangle finisher for good damage.
Start by playing it safe like this, once you start to understand how your enemies and weapon works, experiment with the various opening and see what you can do with them.
If you have a problem in particular with either an enemy or a weapon let me and I'll try and help you as best as I can. Explaining general stuff without being able to show it is kinda hard.

For the more advanced tech you can check out this tutorial by Last to Load, it's made in Nioh 2 but most of the tech can also be used in 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56og5N0qlnY&list=PL6K4hxM_v9JCJxgTwgmkK3b0F34mx89Bz&index=12

Regarding stats is kinda complicated. During the first playtrough you don't really need to pay attention to them too much, just use wathever has more attack and defense while maintaning the agility level you prefer. The only way to learn them is to take the time to check their tooltip when you have some time, take it one step at a time.
If you find any set you like feel free to just craft it and use it, once you see that it starts to be a bit too weak just craft it again at your current level.
Levelling up equipment is not something you should do untile you get Divine in NG+. Divine have + value to them and you can soul match other +value to them to increase it:
so if you have a 150+1 and soul match it with a 150+1 (or better) you will get a 150+2 and so on and so forth.
Finally, if you are interested in creating a strong build instead, your best bet is to check out some of the build guides and see what type of stats they stack and try to apply them to what you want to do. Keep in mind that creating build is something you do starting in NG+1 at the earliest, as you don't have all of the tools before that point.

If you have more specific question just ask, I don't consider me a veteran of the game, but I'll try to help as best as I can.

Royta also knows a lot more than me regarding Nioh 1 in particular and I'm sure it will be glad to help.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

103Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:15 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
WOW!!! Big reply!!! But helpful.

I've seen some tutorials suggest throwing tons of debuff items at yokai to whittle their ki down. I wouldn't be against doing that for some bosses, but for every generic Yokai I come across it seems a bit much.

What attacks generally do more ki damage? I've kinda assumed heavy attacks do; but maybe it's like the final hit in a combo or something. Since I take more damage from behind (I think), I've assumed the enemies do as well. So I've been largely dodging yokai and heavy armor units to get behind them. But sometimes I can stun-lock them for a big combo and sometimes they auto correct to face me. So I'm not confident this is an effective strategy.

Can combos flow fluidly between stances? This is strangely something I've never thought of or tried. Sometimes I'd bait someone to into a high attack and then do a low rush combo, but nothing too fancy. Every combo for the stances seemed kinda canned so I didn't experiment much. But I'll certainly try now.

Ki pulsing while dodging sounds nice. I need it.

I started with the spear, which is fun, but have switched to Dual Swords and Kusarigama, because I wanted to have a Ninja build. It seems the game expects you to weapon swap. But I don't know if certain weapons go better together then others. Guess I shouldn't worry about it just yet.

Weird thing to complain about, but I've definitely had issues with the game dropping dodge and d-pad inputs. I've died a couple times because of it. Has anyone else had these issues?

But anyway, thanks for the long reply TAI! It's crazy to me how much time people take sometimes to be helpful. I'll take a look at the tutorial a bit later.


104Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:42 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
You're welcome, I'm happy to help when I can

>Using Buffs and Debuffs
It depends on how you want to play the game. It can be played as pure action game avoiding all of this and the overpowered stuff or you can play Diablo-style with an op build that destroy everything in seconds. Most people play the op build way and that is the exact reason why finding people talking about mechanics is so rare.I higly advise you yo play it more as action game tho, it has a great depth of mechanics and if you go the Diablo route you don't use any of them.
Regarding buffs and debuffs in particular you can still use them and experiment with it, some of them (like Sloth Talisman which slows down enemies) can easily trivialize encounters so it all depends on what balance you want to find. They are not needed tho, you can do everything without them once you learn the mechanics.

>Ki damage
Generally speaking "blunt" attacks do more ki damage, so stuff that uses kicks,attack with the hilt etc.
But it greatly depends on the weapon, Tonfa for example excels in destroying ki all around. Other than that there some stats that increase the ki damage that you do to the enemy. And finally most Yokai have a weak spots (Yoki's horns for example) that if you destroy it will bring their ki to 0 immediatly, but you can do it only 1 for Yokai.
Attacking from behind does more damage, but doesn't do anymore ki damage.
For some example good ki damage moves are (the names are from Nioh 2 so some of the could be a bit different:
Sword: Kick and Sword Ki
Dual Sword: God of Wind (the rotating kick move)
Spear: Pole Kick
Tonfa: Shove,Sweeping Kick,Double Kick
Odachi: Crashing Waves and Tail Strike
Kusarigama: Tangle Strike
Axe:Southpaw

There are a lot more option tho, so feel free to experiment with the different weapons.

>Combo Flow

Generally you can't start a combo in one stance and finish it in another. What you can do is Ki Flux after finishing a combo (or during it) to then start another from another stance and keep up the pressure. Here's an example with the sword:

Quick=Square
Heavy=Triangle
Ms=Mid Stance
Ls= Low Stance
Hs= Heaby Stance



Here I do, Ms quick,heavy (Kick), Ki Flux into Ls, Sword Ki, Ki Flux into Hs, Hs quick, heavy (Morning Moon) and then finish with an Iai strike. As you can see you can keep up the pressure while managing your ki.

There are also weapons that let you change stances mid combo. In Nioh 1 you have the Odachi that has some skills, that let you use an attack in Ms and follow it up with one in Ls and other combination. Here's an example:



Ms heavy,heavy,quick (Sunset Breeze: Earth which changes me to Ls), Ls quick,heavy (Waking Winds: Heavens that makes me finish with an heavy in Hs) and then an iai finish.

>Weapons pairing
There are definetly ones that work better together either because they compliment each other or because they scale with the same Stat, but you use what you find more fun as every weapon is viable once you understand how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

105Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:06 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Great post Tai! Your work reminds me a lot of Kagerasimaru's, you familiar with him? He's a big Nioh fan/player/YTer too. Great little videos you have there, short and concise. Great job!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

106Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:29 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
Thanks Roy! I tried to be as clear as possible as I'm not the best at explaining stuff.
I really like Kagerasimaru's content, I follow him on and off since the first Nioh and I learned a lot from his videos especially some tech regarding the Katana, the guy is a beast.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

107Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:00 am

Birdman


Moderator
When I played Nioh I used the spear exclusively for a while. Got really got at poking at max range with the mid attack I think. I liked to throw down those spikey things and stab from the opposite side with a poison coated spear. Didn't really work out.

108Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:15 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
Alright I'm an idiot. I didn't even notice the "Learn Skill" tab until Tai mentioned some abilities I hadn't heard of and I went hunting. Turns out I had tons of "Samurai Skillpoints" or whatever built up. Don't know how I missed it.

Figured out the issue of the dropping dodge inputs. Turns out it's just that the running animation starts insanely fast and if your taps are even a few frames too long William starts running. I just didn't notice in the heat of battle. My muscle memory is still struggling with it but at least I know now.

I'm still referring back to Tai's posts every now and then. I think I'm getting the hang of the game now. I was confused and put off by the stats and grinding stuff. I don't like Diablo or Borderlands personally so I kept wondering if this game was even for me. But now I'm learning how to counter enemies a bit and play it more like an action game and it's a lot better. I'm still trash but at least I'm having fun now.

Some questions

-> Do bosses have similar weak spots to yokai for depleting Ki

-> Should I COMPLETELY ignore the blacksmith or grinding until NG+? (Edit) You kinda already answered this one my bad.

-> Should I level up Ki or health at all? I've been pumping my weapon stats
   exclusively.

err... that's it.

Seriously though Tai. Your two post's have been more helpful then all the tutorials I've seen put together. Thanks again!

109Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:24 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
@Birdman

The Spear is great! I realized how dependent I was on it's range after switching to Dual-Swords. The second boss only took me like 3 attempts with the Spear, but with the DS I died 20 times straight.

@Birdman wrote:I liked to throw down those spikey things

Caltrops right? I didn't know they were in the game. They're not useful?

110Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:31 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
Glad I could help Smile

>Not finding "Learn Skill" tab

Don't feel bad about it, the UI and the tooltips in this game are really confusing. A lot of stuff is not really explained and the menus are convoluted. You'll get used to it tho.

>Bosses weak points

Some of them do. You can , for example, break Onryoki's (the first boss) horns.

>Level up

For how I play I heavily focus on increasing Ki as much as possible and I usually don't put much on health. It all depends on how you feel comfortable, don't be afraid to experiment as later you can respec at any moment just by buying a Book of Reincarnation. Also weapon stats are not that important, they do increase damage don't get me wrong, but it's not that big of a difference. Most of your damage comes from weapon and armor stats, so feel free to also put points in other stuff if you want too.
Some people even just level every stats evenly (so all 5, then all 6 and so on) and while It's not something I personally like or would recommend on a first playtrough, it is still a viable way to play.

One last thing regarding stats, armor have stats requirment to be used (you can find them on the bottom of the stat page). You can still equip them even if you don't meet the requirments, but the stats and bonuses on them will not activate (they appear dark). If you craft a piece of equipment you the requirments gets halved, so if you don't want to invest in that particular stats, but want a specific piece just craft it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

111Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:04 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Bought Nioh 2 on a whim when the Claws DLC was announced, so far have a lot of fun. It really feels like a much improved version of the original. Mostly using the Splitstaff currently since I want something new, which is part of the reason why I didn't buy the game originally since the new weapons didn't appeal to me. Just finished the first two levels and some side stuff.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

112Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:54 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
I got the Platinum for Nioh yesterday and have already moved on to Nioh 2 (got the season pass as well). I'm still only in the first region but so far so good.

- Really enjoying the enemies, they seem quicker and more aggressive then in Nioh 1.

- Sounds in general I've noticed seem a lot better, weapons sound super sharp now.

- Weapons no longer clang off walls which is my favorite improvement so far.

Not much else to talk about for me yet. Still just using the weapons I'm used to. How you liking the Splitstaff so far Roy?

113Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The Yokai abilities really steal the show for me so far!

Splitstaff is great but still need to unlock more moves with it. Love how the 'hold' button deals bonus damage and ki-damage, very well designed weapon imo.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

114Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:23 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
- Yokai Abilities
I immediately noticed when you hold heavy attack you absorb Amrita in a very familiar way. Great stuff...

115Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:58 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
About half-way through the second world now, still having a good time. I kind of like how each weapon now has its own skill-point which I was originally against. It really allows you to constantly switch between them and it is even benefitial since they all generate Samurai Points. Just replayed an older stage yesterday with the Hammer to try that weapon out and had a blast honestly.

My biggest gripe is how the stages still aren't that interesting. In terms of design, verticality, using the enviroment to hide dangers, in all those terms it is generally good level design. But they are all so bland. The music is muted. Every stage is dark with burnt down houses.
I know this is kind of "wanting everything to be DMC" but then with Ninja Gaiden haha, but I just wish they'd put in more extremes here. Some good pumping music, action setpieces and more fantastical enviroments instead of 'dark cave' and 'dark burnt down village'. Every stage sort of blends together for me now. Almost would wish it was just grey corridors at times.

On a more positive note, really love those Yokai abilities even more, that you can use them as cancels when out of Ki is brilliant. Do feel I lean too much to the Feral-counter right now, how are the other two?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

116Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:05 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
- Counters
Is Feral-Counter the dashing one? That's what I've been using, haven't tried any others yet.

Haven't played in a couple of days (October hit and I went right into replaying RE4). Last time I played I beat the guy with the Elephant spirit.
Were you able to Burst-Counter his Elephant lightning attack? It has the tell of a burst attack, but I couldn't seem to find the right timing.



Last edited by AeternalSolitude on Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

117Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:57 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
That is where the Brute Counter comes in handy, it's an attack so when the enemy goes red you can immediatly interrupt it with it even if it's not attacking or if it's still in the anticipation phase.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

118Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:02 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
D-Rank
-Counters
Oh ok... So can some attacks only be countered with Brute or is it just easier to do so?
Recently swapped to Phantom and so far I prefer it to Feral. Sometimes after a counter I immediately go into a Yokai Shift grapple. Not sure what causes it to happen or if it's unique to Phantom.

Bosses in general seem like a big step up from Nioh 1! Today I fought the forest-squirrel thing and it's definitely my favorite so far.

119Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:35 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
That's interesting regarding the brute-counter, never thought of it that way. Currently really abusing Shadow Form, its counter is more of a royal-guard which I use to keep my agression up!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

120Nioh general discussion  - Page 3 Empty Re: Nioh general discussion on Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:09 am

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
B-Rank
Quick note, don't we have a thread for Nioh 2 already?

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