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301What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:50 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The first few missions are always a blast for me, great balance of combat, exploration, good and cool arenas with fun enemies to fight. Then it just sort of staggers in the middle with all these weird stages, minigames etc. I know a lot of people hate on Bayonetta 2 for changing the combat mechanics etc, but its stage-design was so much more interesting imo.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

302What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:24 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>does not click
When I first played I felt something like this. I realized later it was just the weird enemy design and using hair as a weapon.

Doesn't bother me anymore but the giant bosses and QTEs do a little. I just want to fight regular enemies or Jeanne and practice stuff.

303What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:08 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I'm mostly on the latter end too. The combo-scoring system also is a mystery to me. Just let me fight and derp around in the areas, keep those weird QTEs and bycicle sections out (man I sound like Bemo now haha).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

304What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:45 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank
Someone recently posted his problems with Kamiya, which made sense as I have always struggled to enjoy his games. Dude just needs an editor.

With bayonetta the mini games and OKO QTEs just wreck the pacing for me.
Okami had a great foundation but just stretched it past the point of tedium.
Does anyone actually get to the weird shooter mundus fight in DMC and go, yes I love this part!..?
RE2 was imo as close to perfect as he has come, but I haven't played 101 yet,

305What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:08 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>OKO QTEs
They do suck, but I find the rest of the game, as in the mechanics,  overshadow how bad they are.

>Okami stretched
It did go past a point where I thought it would end, but I loved the game so much it was fine for me.

>weird shooter segments
No one does. They suck shit. Last night I did Bayo's missile riding part and it was awful beyond words and wouldn't end. Who in their right mind would make the dodge spin the screen like that?

306What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:46 am

Phorus1987

Phorus1987
D-Rank
No I haven't played Nioh 2 in any capacity and have stayed away from watching trailers so I will play the game blind in coop with a good friend of mine. As for Bayonetta I haven't played the sequel but I thoroughly enjoyed the original.

307What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:48 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I can understand going in blind, in which case I'm sure you're in for quite the surprise. The Alpha was highly enjoyable, they really made it stand out with some of the additions.

> Bayonetta
Just finished it, had to absolutely force myself to get through it. The actual fights are an absolute joy, but the constant interruptions, minigames, QTEs, mash-actions, it just gets to me. Really tired of it. You mentioned the missile riding part, I hate the bike more. Bayonetta is in the middle of the screen, the only way you can even see something is by moving around.

> dude needs an editor
Which, sadly, he has. But Project GG will probably be him unhinged, which really worries me to a degree. What's funny though is that generally speaking sequels to his games are a lot better in terms of less distractions, but the core mechanics suffer i.e. VJ2 and Bayo2.

> resident Evil 2
The difference here, imo, is that this was a sequel, so he was confined within what was already done. That said the original vision (RE1.5) was so weird and different he almost got axed and had to start over. RE4 was so wack it had to become its own game with a new title.

> mundus shooter
First time I quite liked it, but no more.

> Wonderful 101
Has the most minigames of the entire bunch, it is absolutely nuts just how many there are and they all influence your ranks. Otherwise fantastic game, but that's really bad.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

308What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:54 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>bayo
Finished the remaster last night. Forgot how bad the final boss was. Horrible platforming, weird angles, and overall extremely boring.

I love the regular enemy and Jeanne fights though and in general the enemies are way more aggressive. I get more fun out of Bayo than any DMC for this reason alone.

309What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:00 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I had the same, in my head though the final boss was excellent, but I almost ended up calling it a day there. Regular and Jeanne fights are gold as you note, also love fighting Gracious and Glorious - just such a great dance of combat.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

310What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:18 pm

Birdman


Moderator
The spectacle of it is pretty incredible and I never would have imagined games would be like this as a kid. Sadly, that's all it is.

>G&G
Yeah those two are mad. I need to fight 9 at once. Bayo needs a BP mode.

311What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:32 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
You guys are really encouraging me to not finish Bayo, geez. Really hoping they cut some of the nonsense down for W101R, since they’re a huge flaw on an otherwise amazing game.

Wish games could do something more like GoW2 with its climbing and Pegasus sections, adapting a miniature version of the combat to incorporate into traversal.

312What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:45 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Worse you have to go through each mode to unlock the next. I finished normal last night and will take a break because it sucks making a new file. So much shit to unlock.

313What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:52 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Going to probably put Bayonetta to the side, too many games on my plate right now aside from all my other hobbies. Might dive back in in the future when I start writing about the series.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

314What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:38 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
@Infinity_Divide wrote:You guys are really encouraging me to not finish Bayo, geez. Really hoping they cut some of the nonsense down for W101R, since they’re a huge flaw on an otherwise amazing game.

I know I'm very much in the minority on this, but I would encourage you to give Bayonetta 2 a look at some point if you haven't already. They significantly cut down on the most egregious design elements for the sequel and give the core gameplay more room to breathe. Barely any significant interruptions worth mentioning over the course of the entire playthrough.

Most purists take issue with the implementation of some mechanics and the borderline unfair boss AI. I personally think it stands head and shoulders above its predecessor, all things considered. Don't give up on the series just yet!

315What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:49 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
That's it. Get out.

Jokes aside, I never understood it. The biggest flaws Bayonetta 2 has is the combo-breakers and the fact that Witch Time is now an integral part of the design as NSIC doesn't disable it anymore, and of course Wicket Weaves being somewhat nerfed. And honestly, considering what we got in return, I'm okay with that. Bayonetta 1 is a title that has some great chapters that are a blast to play, while 50% of the game makes me want to just play something else. Bayonetta 2 was fun from beginning to end for me. Even did a NUR in that game which was good fun. Umbran Climax sucks though, felt rushed.

When it came out I even considered it might be 'the best' action-game ever made due to how well made it was. It was finished, barely had re-used areas, tons of unique areas, fun new enemies and mechanics, a TON of unlockable content, fun co-op mode - the works. For a genre that mostly as incomplete games, this was wholly complete.

It'd be interesting to see if we can talk to some of the Bayonetta experts about it. Because I know they really dislike what 2 did, and I wonder if it was also because they expected it to be just the first game but more instead of it changing some features around? Curious.

Here's some topics I could find:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/228830-bayonetta-2/76628777
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/76629377
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bayonetta/comments/9pnvzc/what_makes_bayonetta_2_so_bad/
https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-critical-look-at-bayonetta-2s-flaws-yt-video-by-daedron12.33316/

EDIT: did some reading and I can really understand some of the complaints, while others feel more like a change in vision i.e. something like what Ninja Gaiden Black to Ninja Gaiden II had.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

316What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:40 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
I remember enjoying my playthrough of Bayonetta 2 a lot more than the first game, but I think I last played Bayo1 in something like 2010, so it's definitely due another playthrough.

I've just started a playthrough of Burnout Paradise Remastered. I saw it on PC for £5 and couldn't resist. It's a very good arcade racer, although I preferred how the older titles had a unique set of tracks, whereas Paradise uses an open world sandbox and all races are point-to-point. It's cool in the sense that it's up to you to pick the best route, but having all the routes in the same city environment makes every race feel the same, even though they aren't.

317What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:39 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I loved the first Burnout, never played the other ones but they were just really fun racers too from what I saw. Which one is your favourite you'd say Greg?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

318What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:47 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
I absolutely adore both Takedown and Revenge for their super-tight gameplay and fantastic track design. The kind of arcade-focused experience that simply doesn't get made anymore, especially in a genre that has become so obsessed with realism and graphical fidelity. Lightning in a bottle, really. The only racing game I would consider to be superior to either of those is F-Zero GX. Well worth playing if your only experience with the series is the very first one, Roy!

Paradise is... meh. The core driving mechanics and sense of speed are superb. But the open world formula completely works against the game's core strengths (the track design is massively dumbed down, there's basically no crash mode, you're constantly taking the wrong turn mid-race, idiotic collectibles, etc...). One of my biggest gaming disappointments.

319What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:36 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
I agree with pretty much everything KSubzero has said above! I haven't played much of Revenge (although I'm looking out for a 360 copy), but I think Takedown is unparalleled in the arcade racing genre. I might even go as far as saying I think it's one of the best pure video game experiences ever created. You can argue Takedown is better than F-Zero GX or vice versa, but they are the best the genre has to offer in my opinion.

I echo the above on Paradise's mechanics and sense of speed. I think the point-to-point-create-your-own-route races are fun as one race type, but for almost an entire game? It gets stale way too quickly. There are no circuit races (outside of the Big Surf Island DLC), which also means there's no eliminator events from previous games, The old Crash Mode has been replaced with a sort of "crash when you want" mode that sounds good on paper but just feels like it lacks a sense of direction in terms of design.

Road Rage events are still fun, and taking down vehicles is cathartic as you can create your own chaos. However, I think takedowns are less enjoyable in Paradise than they are in Takedown - its hard to describe, but it feels like the animations of the vehicle takedowns are more samey. Perhaps the open world design and different car physics are to blame? Maybe I'm just imagining it!

The single player progression isn't very interesting either, and this is my biggest issue with the game. There are around (I think) 120 events to complete across the city, and you can add them to your map by driving past them in freeroam. You rank up your license by completing events. When you rank up, all the events you have completed reset so you can complete them again to make progress towards your next license. Because of this, it's easy to be drawn into completing the same events over and over again. I think the final license rank (Elite) requires you to complete every event, and you'll have already completed most of them at least once before, if not more. This is technically optional postgame content, as the credits roll after you unlock the penultimate "Burnout" license. It's just padding the game out for the sake of it.

I've probably made it sound like the game is terrible, but it is a fun game. Unfortunately, it's just not as good as the titles that came before it. I'd recommend the remaster as it includes all the DLC, and there were quite a few good additions made there. Despite all my complaining, I'm working towards my Elite license and still enjoying unlocking new cars. It does manage to create that adrenaline rush you get from the earlier titles, and when it comes down to it, I think that's the most important part to get right in a Burnout game.

320What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:43 am

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
The reason I would put F-Zero GX above them is because of its design purity, for lack of a better word. Ultimately, spectacle is a pretty big part of Burnout's formula and some of its mechanics can be cheesed, especially in Takedown (like the rail-grinding in a corner to auto-takedown the cars in front of you, that sort of thing). GX on the other hand is 100% gameplay focused and has significantly more mechanical depth under the hood. You really have to learn the game to even stand a chance of beating the more advanced tournaments, putting it more in line with action classics like Ninja Gaiden. The difference between novice and master play in GX is simply staggering.

Takedown is easily the fan favorite of the two, but I think Revenge gets a bit of a bad rap. From the sound of it, it seems like a lot of people didn't play it and that it didn't really benefit from its cross-gen release status. Some players take issue with the introduction of a new mechanic called traffic checking, which lets you ram smaller vehicles that are driving in the same direction as you without crashing. Personally, I think it adds another layer of carnage that is pretty well-balanced considering the presence of larger vehicles and oncoming traffic. An acquired taste overall, but I think I prefer it over Takedown ever so slightly.

Also, it looks like both of them are available as Xbox Originals on the XBO marketplace, so I assume that would be the best way to play them nowadays.

I wouldn't recommend Paradise as their first Burnout game to anyone, really. Especially not to action game purists who would probably be more receptive to the previous games' immediacy and old-school linear structure. I think it's a fine game to play if you're still hungry for more after squeezing the others dry and are aware of what you're getting into, but ultimately, Takedown and Revenge are where it's at.


PS: Oh, and in case anybody wonders, Dangerous Driving (the spiritual successor by the original Burnout devs) is hot garbage. It would probably have been a lot better with a decent budget and development time, but as it stands, it's a borderline unplayable mess which doesn't have a tenth of the depth, polish and replayability of the classics it pretends to emulate. Don't do it to yourselves.

321What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:27 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
F-Zero GX really is a master class in racers, I mean I generally dislike racing games but that game got me hooked. Still proud of my 100% completion save-game. Beat all cups on the highest setting first place with all racers for those cutscenes, story mode beat on Very Hard etc. Think I also beat all Staff Ghosts but not sure about that now that I think of it.

Great soundtrack too. Especially Beastman and McCloud. Just so much fun.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

322What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:56 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
Agreed regarding F-Zero. It's a much more challenging game than any of the Burnout titles. I love everything about GX to be honest - Hidenori Shoji's soundtrack is phenomenal, it's still a fantastic looking game even for 480p and having a game run at 60fps with the visuals it has and the speed it runs at...we're blessed!

I must admit the traffic checking has made me a little unsure of how much I'll enjoy Revenge when I get round to playing it. I'll hold judgment until I can try it for myself. I might be wrong but I thought it was just Revenge that was XB1 compatible - I dug my 360 out thinking I'd need it for Takedown, but if I can play it on the XB1 then that'd be handy.

I heard about Dangerous Driving a couple of days ago, and while I respect the intention, it certainly didn't look good. It doesn't look like it excels at any of the things we like in Burnout titles.

323What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:30 am

Birdman


Moderator
Bayo stuff
I believe we discussed this in another topic. I actually forgot what I said but I don't feel the combo breaking is that bad. Other games have similar mechanics where an enemy can stop your offensive. Knack 2 does it if you keep the pressure on.

wicked weaves integral
The question is, is the mechanic itself bad? TFD has Focus, which is very similar, on the highest difficulties. So what? If the mechanic itself is fine, does it matter if they don't disable like Bayo 1?

Umbran Climax sucks
Is that the huge super move? I've seen a few Bayo 2 vids but had no idea what was going on. How does UC work?

Because I know they really dislike what 2 did
I'm guessing the combo babies?

From the links.

Reliance on Witch Time
What's wrong with this as a core mechanic?

Bayo 1 can be completed without witch time.
This isn't Bayo 1. Why does it need to be the same?
Bayo 1 was designed to be beaten without WT.

some enemies are impossible or take way too long to kill outside of it.
So what?

changed for the worse, and the changes that were done to it were mainly to make the Umbran Climax stand out.
Is this true and what does it mean?

can't launch this can't launch that
Why does everything need to be launched?

Only the Umbran Climax can do any sort of feasible damage as well as shoving out every enemy on screen to give yourself a breather.
Sounds like the enemies are super aggressive, requiring 'breathers'. Good.

The game actively encourages defensive play rather than being offensive
I'm guessing because you need to trigger WT to do anything substantial? Is it more defensive Roy?

especially with many enemies now able to counter for absolutely no reason.
This, to me, isn't even that bad. I get how it could be annoying, but TFD already does this and I never had an issue with it.

In Bayonetta 1, enemies that could counter you had armor, so all you needed to do was break it off and you're free to go crazy.
COMBOCOMBOCOMBOCOMBOCOMBO!!!

There's seriously not enough freedom in this game to be stylish AND effective
The false term, 'stylish' thrown around again. It's nonsense. A well timed single strike is just as cool as a spastic looking air dance.

thats why the best enemy on the first game is BY FAR the most hated and the most whined about (Gracious and Glorious)
People hate these guys? All credibility lost.

Grace and Glory was a bad design that Bayo 2 inherited like enemies having armor that breaks your combo randomly.

Gracious and Glorious are the black and white ones that cannot be witch timed on any difficulty, and they are the most hated enemies for THAT reason

It's bad design if it fights back instead of becoming a midair sandbag. How dare they!
These guys must also hate NG.

OP is right. People will disregard them but these are complaints high level players have too.
lol 'high level players' only posting their best attempts at well practiced sequences.

What about the enemies that were burning, and blocked hits until the fire was off? What about Fearless (and the other dog) who could counter out of nowhere? Cant whine about armour and counters in 2, when they were just as much of an issue in 1. Combat in 2 cant be worse that 1 because of a key issue that comes from 1
This is a good point, especially on NSIC.

No, they're the most hated because of combo breaking not because there wasn't witch time. You were forced to play keep away against them because you couldn't just go in and do your bread and butter and dodge thereafter.
See? The same type of shit is in Bayo 1; enemies who won't take your combo shit.

The rest is that guy whining about sound cues. Sounds like he can't deal with multiple enemies and looking for any excuse.

Couldn't be bothered reading every post in the reddit threads but I saw the ranking systems and enemy dodging and blocking mentioned more than once.

Answer me this. What if Bayo 2 was Bayo 1? What if Bayo 2 was the only Bayo game? I seriously doubt it would have half the complaints.

This is only a half serious rant. I have pretty much zero knowledge of Bayo 2 so I could be totally wrong. I know solid whining when I see it though and it just makes me feel it IS the better game. Might set up the WiiU tonight just to see.

324What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:25 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The biggest downside that I remember from Bayo2, especially after reading the notes, is that the combat really focusses on Witch Time. What this does is that most enemies cannot be hit or damaged outside of WT, meaning the game becomes more singular in focus i.e. you have to play defensive, while the previous game allowed both offense and defence. You stand still in Bayo2 until you get a dodge off for WT and then you attack for 4 seconds - it makes for a more 'efficiency' based game. On the one hand, that's great. But I can understand the annoyance with this as you're basically turning a game-series known for 'style' into something more akin to Ninja Gaiden Black.

Some short notes based on your commentary:

> Umbran Climax
You spend an entire bar to enter it. From that moment on your moves are harder to dodge by bosses, all have Weaves in them (thus, regular weaves are nerfed to compensate) and it just deals high AoE damage. It really feels like an after thought as a lot of moves that cost meter in Bayo1 still do, and are now a lot less useful. Torture Attacks also still cost one entire bar, why ever use those if you can become super-you for the same cost. The whole game is built around it too, with each timer-rank being very tight since it relies on you using it.

> Witch Time
In Bayonetta 1 it was clearly an after thought, training wheels for new players that the game slowly let go of as the player progressed through the settings. In Bayo2 it is mandatory, and I think that steared it too much in one direction.

> weaves
Nerfed, don't launch or knockback as often anymore, while they are still the 'finishers'.

> gracious and glorious
Best enemies in the game imo.

> what if bayo 2 was the only game
It would be liked, but I still think people would complain that Witch Time is a pointless gimmick and making an entire combat system rely on it was a bad call. But that's hard to say still.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

325What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:53 pm

Birdman


Moderator
cannot be hit or damaged outside of WT
Really? I've watched tons of videos and I'm seeing hits and damage being done outside of WT.

You stand still in Bayo2 until you get a dodge off for WT and then you attack for 4 second
I'll admit, I haven't seen everything, but I've watched quite a few including stuff from yosheque and it looks the same as 1, attacking and cancelling into dodges as needed.

a game-series known for 'style'
It only has one previous game. Can we really call it a series?
I don't accept the style term, as anything that looks cool is style. Bayo 2 looks as 'stylish' as it gets.

more akin to Ninja Gaiden Black
So a massive improvement then?

harder to dodge by bosses
Only bosses?

regular weaves are nerfed to compensate
By how much?

It DOES sound like a system created for an excuse to have the UC system. But is it actually bad?

In Bayonetta 1 it was clearly an after thought, training wheels for new players that the game slowly let go of as the player progressed through the settings. In Bayo2 it is mandatory, and I think that steared it too much in one direction.
Sure but that was Bayo 1. TFD still uses it. I don't see anything actually wrong with this mechanic. The only reason I hate it in Bayo 1 is because I know there's a mode that doesn't use it and I see that as the standard. If NSIC didn't remove it, I wouldn't care.

It would be liked, but I still think people would complain that Witch Time is a pointless gimmick and making an entire combat system rely on it was a bad call. But that's hard to say still.
I think these types will say the same shit about ANYTHING. The gimmick term is often thrown around as a negative. They said it about legions, blade mode and tons of others that are mechanically fantastic.

I can see some issues though. If attacks outside of WT don't knockback, launch, or sweep, I might get annoyed by that. I really like the sweeps in Bayo 1 with Durga, making them get up into bombs.

Oh and in 2 she has a bow. SHE HAS A FUCKING BOW.

326What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:45 am

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
Keep in mind I'm far from a Bayo expert but I thought I would give my perspective on this.

I think one of the reasons why I prefer Bayo 2 over the original is because I tend to gravitate towards a more efficient play style anyway, and so the [Dodge > Witch Time > Max DPS > (repeat)] loop comes rather naturally to me. With that said, I don't think the purists are entirely off-base with their criticism either.

It's difficult to explain if you haven't played it, but some of the bosses in Bayo 2 simply cannot be attacked without waiting for the exact moment to [Dodge > Witch Time > Max DPS > (repeat)]. They are often essentially invulnerable outside of WT, even if you wait for what appears to be a solid window of opportunity. Like I said above, it doesn't really bother me personally all that much, but it might explain why someone who prefers a more free-flowing approach to the combat would find it unduly restrictive.

The ordinary enemies are a mixed bag. I think all of them can be damaged even outside of WT. But it is often ill-advised, and a lot of their attacks don't seem to give you enough time to dodge if you just start playing hyper-aggressively.

The Ninja Gaiden Black comparison is valid to a certain extent, but it doesn't really tell the whole story either. In NGB, everything is built around efficiency from the ground up and the game is almost always respecting its own rules, which is a very important element to keep in mind. It's a much more coherent game, so to speak. In Bayo 2, you are being given all sorts of fantastic weapons with great audiovisual feedback and really cool combo strings but often simply don't have the opportunity to use them, especially on higher difficulty settings. It's not so much a matter of skill as much as the noticeable dissonance between the enemy AI and the player's toolkit.

I still prefer Bayo 2 overall for many reasons, but I can totally see why so many people prefer the organic congruence of the various mechanics in the first one. The basic interplay with B1's default enemies is more fair and the combat isn't so centered around WT activation.


PS: I can't really comment on stuff like Armor or UC balancing as it's been a while since I last played it, although I would agree with Roy's observations from what I remember.

PPS: The bow in Bayo 2 is borderline unusable, if you ask me.

327What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:03 am

Birdman


Moderator
haven't played it
I'm about to give it a try. Had to dig out my WiiU stuff which was a real mission. I got Mad World too so I'll give that a go while I'm at it.

prefer Bayo 2
Can you go over all of your reasons?

bow unusable
Then I'm going to love it.

328What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:07 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> damage outside of WT
I think the humanoid bosses have a 90% dodge rate, basically Alma on steroids. They also have auto-counters, making it so that attacking is highly dangerous. Regular enemies have lower percentages. Everything with a healthbar on screen can barely be touched iirc outside of WT.

> standing still
This was a bit of an exaggeration, you can stay on the move if you wish but it has no added value outside of keeping your combo going. Yosheque etc. use dodge-offset and regular bullets (undodgable iirc) to keep the combo-meter from decaying.

> NGB
There's a reason I like Bayo2 a hell of a lot more.

> Regular weaves
IIRC their damage was more than halved and they lost most of their unique properties like launch, knockdown/back etc. The power of weaves was - imo - in Bayo1 that they were strong finishers that allowed you to launch specific otherwise impossible to launch foes to controle the battlefield more. Now they are just fancy animations that deal a tad more damage without much of the application. It is a clear sign of depth being removed imo.

> witch time being designed around
I haven't played enough TFD to make an expert call on it, kind of like you with Bayo 2, but isn't TFD possible to complete without the slow-mo? It was more an added feature there yes? Not the crutch of the entire combat system.

> bow
Great weapon imo, but large learning curve. The downside Bayo2 had for me is that it really pushed the efficiency angle while also having two of the most broken weapons in the genre (Rodin and chainsaw+freeze combo), meaning the meta got boring really fast.

> WiiU
It is also on the Switch mind you with a better performance. A system that also has Chaos Legion 2.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

329What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:18 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
TFD? Chaos Legion 2? I'm having trouble following. Neutral

330What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:12 pm

Nadster


A-Rank
I think he means Astral Chain.

331What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:47 pm

Birdman


Moderator
humanoid bosses have a 90% dodge rate,
That sounds awful. The cool thing about Jeanne in Bayo 1 is that while she dodges a bit, there are many windows to hit her if you know her moves.

use dodge-offset and regular bullets (undodgable iirc) to keep the combo-meter from decaying.
That's what I ended up doing mostly in NSIC in Bayo 1 anyway with tougher enemies.

IIRC their damage was more than halved and they lost most of their unique properties like launch, knockdown/back etc.
I started playing last night and saw the damage really is far less, but all the waves still have all their properties. Launch and knockback and slam down are still present, and there's a new launch state where there stay in the air spinning for a few seconds.

This is on normal though so maybe these don't work on harder modes. I noticed when a regulat enemy goes red they get super armor and in that case it seems like only WT can budge them.

TFD focus required?
I don't see how you could avoid it because you HAVE to dodge and enemies are super aggressive on higher modes. It's going to happen whether you want it to or not. It's not only activated by dodging either.

It's possible to play and win any mode without SS fully upgraded loot without it being stupid though.

Switch
Good to know. Still trying to save for one.

TFD
Transformers Devastation.

Chaos Legion 2
Referring to Astral Chain which is similar and the reason I want a Switch.

332What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:10 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> dodge rate
It gets really annoying, but it is only OUTSIDE of Witch Time. So most bosses are more 'learn pattern, dodge timely, WT, win'. Jeanne was a fun fight imo.

> weaves in bayo2
Give it a go on harder settings and against bigger foes, I think everything above regular angels/demons barley launches/staggers outside of WT.

> TFD
Makes sense, I haven't played it a lot so I really cannot comment too much.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

333What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:42 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Sounds like the issues are more apparent on higher modes.

I'll play through normal first just to get used to stuff.

I HATE the gamepad. Awkward as fuck. Borrowed a pro controller but it's just as bad. I have this weird issue due to the placement of the sticks.

Like the right stick is above the punch button and I keep touching it with my thumb and it makes me think it's actually the punch button. Like everything is rotated in my head and messing up my inputs. Why is Nintendo so retarded? Sick of their shit and I barely play Nintendo stuff.

Crow Within seems to activate slower. Will need to check that but I keep screwing up the timing. I would juggle with it in Bayo 1 but now I can't get it to connect. Might be the controller issue above though.

UC is braindead mode. Once I activate I can barely see anything due to all these demon hair limbs.

Having panther from the start is nice.

334What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:00 pm

KSubzero1000

KSubzero1000
C-Rank
I had a bit of trouble adjusting to the Wii U Pro Controller's stick placement at first, too. I wouldn't discount it just yet, though. I think it's actually a very ergonomic controller once you get over that hurdle, and the digital shoulder buttons are particularly well-suited for Bayonetta (more precise dodge timing).

335What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:23 am

Birdman


Moderator
I think I'm getting used to it.

Will post any further Bayo 2 stuff in a dedicated thread.

336What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:27 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> UC
That's the main problem with it, it adds nothing and makes meter-management more dull. You have all these cool abilities that cost meter, or you can press a single button for 'smack stuff' mode with insane animations.

> Having panther from the start is nice.
Absolutely.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

337What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:06 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
I've had 2 people on YouTube ask me to finish my Urban Reign playthrough, so I'm going to have to pick it up again. Can't disappoint my legions of fans!

338What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:14 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
What’s your channel?

339What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:20 pm

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq91atelNl7JsOUw6nhUPFg

There isn't a whole lot on it. Just as an FYI, I was joking about legions of fans! Razz

340What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:20 am

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
Subbed. Gotta show support!

341What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:34 am

Birdman


Moderator
After I'm done with this Bayo 2 playthrough I'll just rent NG3. Csng seem to find it here anymore. Still a few more bargain bins to try though.

342What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:42 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Isn't the game dirt-cheap digitally, or still super expensive?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

343What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:15 am

Birdman


Moderator
No idea. I totally forgot about the digital option.

I'll check that later.

344What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:52 pm

Nadster


A-Rank
I'm continuing Fist Of The North Star Lost Paradise. At Chapter 6. Level 58. I'm really despising the bartender segments.

345What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:15 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Those looked really bad when I was looking into this game. What exactly do you do in them?

346What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:16 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
The Bartending is just mindless fun, I'd shake it out between bouts at times but I can understand it gets tiresome. Some of the minigames in general are just not well done this time around, though the arena is fantastic imo. Had a lot of fun with that game when it came out.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

347What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:53 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
C-Rank
I started playing the PS4 Spider-Man game last night and I'm really enjoying it so far. I've been pleasantly surprised by how good it's been despite using the formulaic AAA open-world template. If you're a Spidey fan and haven't played yet, I'd recommend it based on what I've played so far.

348What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:48 am

Nadster


A-Rank
@Birdman wrote:Those looked really bad when I was looking into this game. What exactly do you do in them?

Sorry that it was taking so long. Anyway, the bar games have these three in 1-3 stars of difficulty: Rotate the right stick, press the four buttons over and over, and tilt the controller. I think the difficulty is just the length of the timer. I couple of things I noticed, the game says I need to tilt by holding the controller with both hands but I find it easier with one hand. With the button pressing. If you hit S instead of T for example, the bar gauge stops. If you continue to do so, it will decrease.

349What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:28 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
A-Rank
I thought those bartending sections were funny, at least.

350What are you playing right now? - Page 7 Empty Re: What are you playing right now? on Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:02 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
From all the minigames I didn't mind them that much either. The hostess club was also much improved imo since you now finally had objectives and some fail-states. Other than that though, some others were pretty forgettable imo.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

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