Dragon Ball

Saw the game and was honestly pleasantly surprised. A lot of people are whining, but at least it's something different than "Saiyan Saga...again". Pretty creative use of the setting for once.

Probably needs more human survivors. Not sure why they resorted to OC so quickly. Could get Hercule (stronger than normal people)? Videl (her flight being a big boon though a good way to be detected along with a higher PL she needs to hide *don't think she learned how to*). Can't use a proper Z fighter (Uub would beat Cell's ass convincingly when provoked). Well, maybe those beneath Tien. Krillin really isn't going to manage much other than to blind and maybe cut apart before running away. Yamcha has some power, but that's about it (without him wising up to use Power Ball in a smart way as to distraction). Chiaotzu has psychic abilities that could be of some small use (gap between him and the target being so large is the main problem for their usefulness, but he would allow team speak that should otherwise create noise the villain can potentially hear *and use to locate by way of*). They're all too capable, I'm sure.

Cyborgs like 17 and 18 can't be detected, have flight, can somewhat fight, etc., but are sort of disqualified as they are just power-ups to the primary hunter (thought I saw that Cell was NOT the only one). Really, Roshi should be able to humiliate Cell if he's not careful (ECW done right). The bug has genetic memories from a guy who knows how to reverse the technique, so it is improbable he would just job by way of sealing (still possible). Baba would be too much for the insect (slipping dimensions, calling upon Devil Man to wreck him, etc.). Still too capable. Puar isn't as capable as Oolong for not being humanoid, except he can fly without ki AND has infinite duration on transformations (while not able to increase power, refined sharpness/hardness can bypass that issue as with the giant scissors used to cut off Gokek's tail). Probably a could inclusion if allowing for the pig, just that one is a clear animal and the other is a furry (lots of that in DB).

We're getting them in their youth, so does that mean dead people from the past can be included? Black with his mech (Pilaf gang would also cover that among other things while being more popular *gas the villain with insecticide not unlike how Mai defeated JOBku via KO*) and Blue with his paralysis. Not going to bring up things that cannot be absorbed as there is no fun in that. Not sure what merit exists in many of the others really. We don't have any 'light' drinkers among people. Baba's Invisible Man would be a pest to detect. Just wouldn't be allowed as he is on lease from Other World (as with her other champs). Maybe as an unlockable/DLC? Bulma is her own thing.

While Oolong is given weapons and some access to his shapeshifting (limited), she should be the one with capsule tech. Capsules for places to shelter, weapons, armor, vehicles, etc. Shame she never made one to put enemies in a pocket dimension prison (maybe even hide oneself in one *way out designed in it*). Had a device for shrinking. Maybe attach that to Cell in a way he won't readily notice (seemed to proportionally weak those affected, so that is something *just that he would be harder to spot now*). Useful for getting around unseen already. Reversing the effect to get bigger would even make you stronger, but not enough to face him. Making a device to shut down his 'borgs' (then destroy them) let alone remotely set off their self-destruct would really ruin his plans even before reverse engineering the bomb of 16 (and putting it on the Beetle Borg *kill him outright*).

Bulma having a basic gun, simple things to drive around in, a dragon ball locator, scouter, etc. are all things from canon without taking liberties. Scouter would really make it hard for him to not get detected by normal people so long as he doesn't flex to break it (needs to be adjusted so it doesn't over-react in this fashion). Lowering his PL enough to evade it should be a hassle (limiting movement). Sort of strange she didn't make any guns with alien tech even after encountering Frieza's soldiers. Could have made better lasers (or even ki weapons based on the 19 and 16 designs). Speaking of the mimebot, absorbing his attacks or sapping him has A LOT of potential. Just make a swarm of bots (nano-drones, maybe) to cover and sap him.

Again, getting well beyond things she has ever done (MAX level Bulma would wreck his ass). Just using a means to send him into the time machine on a one-way trip to another (new) dimension would be plenty (no longer their problem). Without the fuel he is stranded (can't even come back to the same place to begin with). Would help if she made a trap that was the machine, but built large enough to fit him (and conceal what it is). Asking a lot to have her copy Gero and actually give cybernetic upgrades to people, construct kill-bots, etc. Not really her style (gadgets). Could take a page from her pops with use of gravity. Vegeta was only really shown to handle 150G in canon (even during Buu Saga he was not actually shown working with more in SS). 300 (much less 500) should actually mean something.

Dumbass chimera monster still refuses to use things beyond his jobber MC DNA. Get some shades and Solar Flare is fucking useless. Too easy. Kamehameha is only a problem for those that don't learn Crane School's hard counter. That requires Tien unless others can learn it. PL gaps are no issue there. Cell would be in for a nasty surprise if some punk turned his own blast against him. Of course, he can take a lot of punishment (beyond his own power even), so it wouldn't kill him (aside from not likely putting much into an attack meant for rubbish). Nobody present can do SB, but without pulling from a star and powerful people...No users of IT let alone FSF (slapping the absorbed power out of him). The latter is Super anyway.

Using pods to get away is comical. With the speed of their travel and the mass, one might expect just making one collide with the ultra insectoid should prove effective. Escaping to another timeline is an easy way out to be sure. Not sure why Cell is evolving from swallowing nobodies here. An objective could be to keep him away from the stupid teen twins. He should be drinking the survivors, but I suppose the rating would suffer for how that (faithfully done) would look. Where is the diarrhea pill to make the villain sick with a word? That might cramp his style a bit. Take ol' Spots down a peg. He going to have a mode where he makes Juniors to create a team of his own (if only bots)? Obviously no multi-form (his use of that was never canon). Only Tien has that. Tien is OP, so he can't be here.

I was watching the Spanish dub of Kai, and Imperfect Cell mentioned that he knew how to use Kaioken. Perhaps this explains my earlier confusion as to whether he explicitly mentioned it in the manga or not.

EDIT: Regarding Super, is it worth reading anything past the ToP?

>earlier confusion
Got to stick to the source to know canon. Even putting aside dubs, the anime in general will give the wrong impression (Kai or otherwise).

>worth reading
Depends. You into seeing Vegeta become a gimmick guy? Just want to see the latest nonsense with forms, techniques, etc? I wouldn't expect any of this shit to end up in a game (seem keen on acting like only the anime exists). Well, other than card shit exclusive to Japan.

The next arc after ToP starts with a bit of promise, but quickly falls apart. The latest still lacks a strong antagonist, really. Not in the power sense, but in the role of opposition you care about. While humoring the material, expect more of what would be retcons (were it canon).

Art isn't terribly impressive. Other fan works are better. Characterization barely exists outside making Gokek worse and Vegeta continue a slow advance to his EoZ self (with pretty rapid shifts in stances as I see it). Doubt we ever get to a point where they reach EoZ (let alone beyond it *as with GT making him significantly more mature in terms of a hero mentality*).

It's a bit disheartening how strong Super started off with the Beerus movie, only to slowly have me consider that GT - which I often felt was worse than anything - was at least more unique and inspirational. The show took quite a lot of risks and unique storytakes, while also pushing the envelope on forms. It also had some characters grow further like Vegeta really settling down, Krillin being a family man etc. Everything had aged and moved on, gave the idea that the world wasn't standing still.

In Super it's like the universe just 'froze' after Buu was vanquished. Also most of the new forms are very lackluster in presentation and application. I kind of miss the time where cunning strategy, smart moves or unique abilities decided the end of a fight instead of "power level".

Granted I'm far from as invested in the series as you two probably, but just my 5 cents.

>how strong
Can't say I agree. BoG set the stage for Super (while other offerings set expectations). This is true.

>worse than anything
Limited experience talking. It is certainly bad, however.

>more unique and inspirational
An amusing fact I only just recently learned. The intro? There is a reason the JP version was so different from the others. Like it wasn't made for a mystical adventure with fistcuff world-ending action for the entertainment of boys. Like it was a J-pop love song. Which it was. They just slapped it on the project. A project where AT (with questionable quotes about his granddaughter) designed some interesting attires for very young girls. One of which is a copy of her paternal grandmother (wife to the now de-aged Gokek). She sure grows close as his designated cheerleader. One might (without listening to her oft used title for this relative) easily confuse her for a love interest. Most curious. Then there is the lewding of this not even 15 (typical age of choice for JP) year old (to say nothing of Bra). I suppose this isn't CANONku, so maybe TOEIku's 'savior' mindset includes room for such things? Guess even that wasn't enough as she is still abandoned (just like in the source). This time NOT for WAKU WAKU with a little brown boy he intends to wail on (at the expense of a starving village and an extorted father-in-law of his eldest). G(oku)T(ime) was an odd one, indeed.

NOTE: Ignoring all that, there were certainly some interesting ideas and not everything was terribly executed. Just a great deal.

>Chestnut doing what he was already doing in Buu Saga
Continued from EoZ. He did say (from the start) he only ever wanted to be strong to get a girl.

>miss the times
Mostly pre-Z.

> episode of Z
I think the series commited suicide with that part, it's just so out of left field. While I like it when series give an 'epilogue' of sorts to see where all the characters end up, a lot of the characters felt off. Broken record but I really wish the series ended after Cell. The passing of the torch to Gohan was perfect and ended on a high note.

> GT
Mostly the interesting ideas bit yeah. Having the dragon's wish nuke the planet was a neat excuse to have a revival of the original formula on a galactic scale (though nerfing Goku was done in such a dumb way and the writing was horrid (#notmytrunks)). Babi was a cool idea and fantastic design, terribly done. Majuub was a great design, badly used. Piccolo's death was emotional, but completely out of left field. SSJ4 was a fantastic design for a new form, but very inconsistent (sometimes Goku notes it makes him more animalistic, then it doesn't).

I especially loved the concept of the final enemies being 'wishes' throughout the series, punishing the protagonists for their abuse of the balls.

Lots of cool ideas, far superior to "lol multiverse here be dragons" and "it's Freeza, again". Garbage execution and budget though.

> pre-Z cool moves
Z also had it quite a bit imo. Raditz was all strategy all the time. So was the (brutal) fight against Nappa. Vegeta as well, which was more a mutual slaughter house with both parties being decimated and broken with a lot of cool new moves being used and pushed to their limits. It wasn't until Vegeta vs Pui and later Zarbon that it really became more of a "powerlevel creep". I always found it insanely meta when Vegeta (not sure that happens in the manga) straight up asks Dende to basically kill him so he gets stronger haha. Why don't they just do that every day instead of train? Way faster!

After that the only time 'moves' really mattered I feel was when Tien used tri-beam on Cell. At that point it was just 'cool haircolors' and 'neat fusions' for days sadly.

I did like Goku versus Freeza though despite the powercreep. It was pretty cool that despite the surprise transformation, Freeza was still his equal and it was a tense fight where Goku's martial prowess and superior stamina ended up deciding the victory (that last part always sat weird with me though, since Goku was still getting used to SSJ, so the form should've drained him pretty hard as well I'd reckon).

>with that part
EoZ? AT was done. He didn't have an editor to crack the whip anymore. Buu Saga was him allowed to bullshit his way through. He's an ideas guy that likes to crack dumb jokes while showing basic martial arts (with some solid paneling *his art getting very lazy by this point so you would find the source WORSE than the adaptation oftentimes in the final stretch*).

>felt off
Do tell.

>passing of the torch
With a villain that was made from the previous MC (father), his prince (villain that was 2-0 over him), his teacher (Pickle Junior) and the glorified slum lord himself (Frisbee). Also, bugs (nerds love having them for their collection, so where better to start than to pin one to the wall as to establish dominance as the new head/face). A being made by an organization his deadbeat dad was famed for taking down (with more antagonists absorbed into its being *two of which had murdered him in the original timeline*). A lot was set-up for him (though he did little in the saga to work up to the mantle, mind you *fumbled a bit, too*).

>black star balls
I feel like it was a bit out of leftfield to have another set with a magical consequence like blowing up the world they are used on being their drawback (for such a poorly realized wish *can't compare to the two small balls collected for one mega wish without refractory period like with Super's latest set*). They wanted a plot device to make Gokek a kid again. Really, they shouldn't have used him in that role at all. He kept his adult Toei personality (not like his canon self *even got their made-up move from films*) with only the lightest mix of his kid self to make GTku (basically just his Buu Saga self, but a shameless exhibitionist).

The tool was also one meant to force an adventure off-world since they found it hard to bullshit an adventure on Earth. Sending the crew with the power they have made them finding threats a bit hard to believe (after the universal terror *an ancient evil* that was bubble gum genie). Even if it were JUST the quasi-Saiyan girl after slacking on her training in pursuit of boys, it would be hard to expect her to have a single soul in all of space that could challenge her power (as this works from filler they made-up, she was already mightier than Goten at half the current age). Lacks SS? Still not an issue. Only MAYBE could one expect her base rusty and unrefined self getting any sort of trouble from gimmick abilities and things from other galaxies (if not finding herself in Other World *possibly the Makai if finally exploring it*).

>not my Trunks
Did you even like Kid Trunks (main timeline)? Did you expect that brat born and raise in a mostly peaceful timeline as a rich, spoiled child to turn out like his original timeline self (forged in tragedy and the rigors of an unkind existence *taking the MC role there*)? That he was so lacking is displeasing, but not entirely surprising. Still, shame on Super for not letting him look like the Teen Trunks from the special (likewise, aging up Goten properly).

>Babi
>i
Better that than actually being called "Baby".

>cool idea
Using Toei's made-up lore for a people the Saiyans wiped out for full control of the planet that would be renamed before having another Gero make an artificial being pulling a variant of The Thing (taking multiple bodies and even altering them *different take on Buu, too*)? Fair to say, yeah. He didn't get good intel before leaping into a body. Should have gone with a mutt hybrid. Still, there is something poetic about taking a royal body as his vessel. However, it would be more sensible for him to have chosen Gokek (just to have his body jobbed out to Bejita-sama just like when Ginyu tried that *Super took a swing at this through Zammy with mixed results*).

>design
It was pretty random, but mostly aesthetically pleasing (some states more than others).

>Majuub done dirty
Uub was a complete wash. Not even included in the adventuring, but then how could he be? Even if only as strong as he should have been able to become (Kid Buu level) without the likes of KK boosting him further...that's still overkill. GT went way, way beyond that with talk of BASEku being beyond his Buu Saga self's SS3 and working with the non-canon multipliers for transformations. Really, there is NO WAY at all he could get that strong (beyond Mystic Gohan). His capacity for growth just wasn't there. Really, even getting as far as he did should have been it for him (pushing it as is) given what a shitter he actually is (and what it took to claw to this point). Buu was written out through this merger to shut down the host of ridiculous possibilities (Super just has him take naps).

>Ma Junior's demise
Always struck me as silly. Just writing another guy out instead of leaving him alone (he was already way too strong for adventuring, but way too weak for meaningful action *they didn't seem interested in giving us minions that support could go up against let alone letting villains work their way up against the good guys before reaching a state only the top can contend with*). Others dodged the bullet by being forgotten. Chestnut wasn't so fortunate. Just there to get taken out as a motivation for 18 to...Well, do you really want to get into that mini-saga?

>fantastic design
But quite random. It being beyond Gohan was absurd and illogical. Gokek being able to get it without the right training is dumb, but worse it let him double dip on the multiplier (bullshit). He should have needed KK to make-up the difference (for him it would merely act as SS3 with different drawbacks *except GT didn't really give it much of any save light strain*). How you get it is awful. You have zero conditions to keep it upon "achieving" it. Cute of them to work from their lore depiction of the legend (ignoring a movie alternative). Again, using their filler well.

>more animalistic
Even SS has this problem (supposed to fill you wish savagery and rage, but clearly isn't a factor in actuality *one flare-up tantrum from TARDku telling his kid to beat it is all it really amounted to*). If it was drawing on the Oozaru personality, it wouldn't be a problem at all for Vegeta (who had harmonized with that aspect of himself to become the ONLY known master *not just avoiding getting KO'd by reversion, working out the tail weakness, having a back-up for lacking a full moon, doing more than simply not being berserk in that he had full control including speech, etc.*). 'Our hero'? He would NEED his Prince to help him finally tame that part of himself enough to somewhat use a form drawing from that source (else he would just pull a Broly *another reason why Ikaru would be a bad fit for JOBalot besides it just being the double dip issue once more*).

>SSJ4
>J
Haven't we been over this? I feel like I've noted before that it is grammatically and officially wrong (in all languages). Communities have made the mistake for three decades. This is true. However, a mistake it remains.

>concept of wish karma being a thing
Could have been handled a bit better, but agreeable.

>multiverse
People thought it would be different timelines (what-ifs) as in DBM. Not so much. We still barely see a thing that is new. Mostly recycling the familiar.

>Fridge
What a fall from grace. As if his canon end wasn't bad enough for his legacy.

>quite a bit
It doesn't really compare (where wits over power was a focus). Even still, let's have a go (the main champ on this front is Early Namek antics from a newly minted anti-hero).

>Radish
Jr. tried to be direct. Was about to get clapped, but the glorified Saibamen got distracted. OHKO'd the young father with a Tiger Knee. Pretty straight-forward. Their next move? Team-up. A rare thing to be sure. Match quality with quantity. It wasn't working. Tried their moves, but nothing meaningful was coming of it. Somehow, Junior had a reversal, but couldn't just do the sealing technique (ECW). Sure. Anyway, the minor grunt had the same lackluster combat sense as little bro, but nobody pushing him to address a serious flaw (tail). Exploited it, but fucked up. Fortunately, a raging mongrel shattered the bad guy's ribs (power wins again, baby) so a move (slow owed to being crippled) with enough direct damage could do the job (as another just applies the Full Nelson). It's...okay. Not a ton to be impressed with here. Power was really strutting its stuff just fine.

>fight against Nappa
Tien was cucked hard. Yamcha was himself. Chiaozu participated (power meant his utility was meaningless as exemplified by his TK before his useless suicide). Krillin was given a boon only for Vegeta to steal that thunder (showing it was just a generic he already knew). How sad. Rice Junior? Didn't do shit. The only teamwork here was Big Green and Chromedome (working together at least as much with this one instance as the "best friend" ever had with the monkey king's shout-out). Power was, in the end, the determining factor. Just ran them all over at half strength before meeting his match (who just used a move that gave him more power for a surprise backbreaker *before the even more powerful super elite blew him to pieces for getting crippled*).

>cool new moves
I feel like we're not talking about the same thing. Not just in terms of techniques, but the actual fisticuffs and strategies in question.

>Vegeta as well
How he tanked what he did is beyond me. His power should not have allowed for that. Plot was on his side (actually planned to be the villain on Namek and lose to death for the rematch, but best editor thought otherwise *and the new villain got his personality as described by the author*).

>both parties
Gokek didn't do much against his better before being turned into a crumpled paper ball made of man-flesh. Gave him an ocular ouchie. That's about it (also scuffed the uniform a bit). I imagine you're extending this to his fellows backing his broken form.

>Zarbon
The rematch was one of the strongest instances going against the grain (by using sand and hubris to weaken his foe before properly wrapping up the bout).

>asks Dende
>Dende
Even in the anime, it was Cueball who got threatened with death if he didn't do as commanded. Vegeta lowered his PL enough to allow the attack to do severe damage.

>meta
Too bad he didn't know he didn't need another person at all. Gokek accidentally exploited this the whole way to Namek by almost killing himself repeatedly before gobbling another bean. The gravity training didn't matter. This genetic gift was written out (along with tails) until letting SPC dabble as a final showing.

>just do that
You need a healer, for starters. The only one who really knew about the mechanic was Vegeta, but his means to exploit it were limited (he would have to trust others to NOT kill him while using a healing pod, for instance). That you could do it to yourself was such a bullshit boon for the protagonist's benefit it had to be overlooked (thus people forget and just assign everything to glorified weight training). The moment it was being figure out, it stopped existing (much like KK *when about to introduce strain and a way to deal with it for SS* and Oozaru *can't have a way to get tenfold stronger on the table or threats would have to scale up*).

>Tri-Beam
The only wanking the man ever got. The move was good, but it wasn't THAT good. That display was clearly over-compensation for how badly the character got treated (and would continue to be).

>mattering
Lots of neat moves don't end up actually qualifying as this.

>haircolors
And styles.

>fusions
Again, AT going wild without a wrangler.

>liked the embodiment of creep
Legend fulfilled and a super hyped villain getting brought low in the manga.

>still his equal
Only in the anime. It was just a straight ass-kicking. One way road with no reach around. In actuality, I can think of no character with more unproven skill as a fighter (including their techniques) than "best baddie" himself. He relied completely on having an overwhelming advantage to get anywhere. Ignoring his use of ki discs (homing with them, at least), the only attack with anything to say for itself was Nova Strike. How so? Again, the Super Saiyan was MUCH stronger than him and used KMHM (bad though the move is, it is still more than doubling his output) yet the barrier held enough for him to stalemate briefly and go aside it for a surprise flank shot (really, the only thing he managed at all for what little it was worth).

>sat weird with you
Not only regarding the retrospective (accepting a later made-up weakness only created to justify KK being gone without saying it, but also allowing for the concept of FPSS leading to SS2 *on some load of crap that was clearly NOT the case before*), either. Recall the goodie two-shoes was beaten before this. Totally drained of ki (used the last of it to muster the SB) and badly beaten up (though not crippled like with the Snowball Roller). Should have been wracked with pain from KKx20 (at least matching how KKx4 *previous limit* had him so fucked up he couldn't do more than x2 and love taps made him scream). Didn't even inflate to match the exceeding of his limits. Then he gets SS, which heals and revitalizes him. Convenient.

> cell setup
The whole saga felt pretty well established in general. Gohan's accension to protagonist was set-up from day 1 and was coming more and more to the forefront, especially after he became a blonde. Cell being a sort of 'fusion' of past heroes and villains only made this series come more full circle for me in retrospect too as you note. The 'horror' episode where they find the second time-travel ship was also pretty nicely done, at least as a kid watching it without any outside information. Flipped the entire script upside down (going from having to kill the Androids, which we had been fearing for quite a while now, to needing them alive).

That said I do still hate that Gohan never got a propper actual fight against Cell. We only had:
1) Cell dominates Gohan, who suddenly has fighting PTSD for whatever reason despite his growth as a character
2) Gohan dominates Cell
3) beam struggle

I would've loved to see Gohan face off, at least once, against super-perfect Cell (or w/e his name is for when he returned). Think that'd be really interesting as opposed to the beam struggle.

> black star
Agree they came way out of left field with zero setup. Still, the idea is neat, just should've been introduced sooner.

> notmytrunk
You have to take age into consideration. When GT launched here on TV, we'd only seen previews and some random snapshots in magazines of the show. We all assumed the Trunks we saw was actually Future Trunks (not putting 1 and 1 together). When the show launched I was like 11 I think, dumb and naive. I hated how stupid, childish and almost cowardly Trunks was. Let alone how rare SSJ was used.

> SSJ
We talked about this before. SSJ was used in all the Dutch media, to the point that I even had Trading Card Games for "Goku SSJ Twee" (Twee being Dutch for 2). It just stuck with me as a result. You're a strong man, you'll live.

> Baby
Killer design too btw, very alien-like with those colors and weird rods sticking out of him. His voice was a bit too 'whiney' for my tastes. Do like how he basically made his own harem haha.

> Uub
They kind of wrote themselves into a corner. Even if they wanted to go adventuring, the entire cast was too powerful. Even Goten could solo pretty much everything thrown at them at this point without throwing some galaxy-threat their way. In that sense Pan was a good addition (young, unestablished). Uub though, barely saw any use IIRC. I only remember him getting his ass handed to him.

> super android
Even as a kid, that entire saga just bored me to tears.

> SSJ anger issues
I too recall the "fuck off Gohan" moment, outside that it basically just vanished (like a lot of things). Animation also led to some weird things, as SSJ sometimes required a full effort of transformation, while other times it was just a 'nod' and suddenly the haircolor is different. I did like how Vegeta got a bit more like his earlier self when he turned Super for the first time, though his humiliation at the hands of blondie quickly stomped this part of his personality.
Guy was a complete fool in that regard too, rarely learning his lesson. He wanted to see the Androids, to show his power, and later fell for the exactly same ruse with Cell.

> Vegeta the tank
Even as a kid it was pretty brutal seeing them all beaten within an inch of their life. Later-on in the show it's more mellow, just 'hurt'. They clearly lost bones and even ripped entire tendons here it seems. Goku couldn't even move while Krillin basically was about to cut Vegeta in pieces while he was crawling away from a nude Gohan (probably too much for him).

> Tien
Shame how badly he got shafted, same with Big Green. Both are clearly Martial Art masters, but keep getting cast aside. Piccolo beating Mystic Gohan in Super is just laughable.

GMG:

>stick to the source

Right. I presume that this applies to OPM too, right? I started reading the manga a while ago, but realized that the webcomic is the source material.

>wrong impression

Like SS2 Goku's fight against Kid? Or Base Vegetto vs Buuhan.

>Vegeta turning into a gimmick guy
>latest nonsense with techniques and forms

Not too terribly interested. Though I do have some nostalgia for the series, so that's most likely why I can see myself going back to it in the future, even if Super isn't canon (?).

>SSJ
I asked this to a certain community in GFAQs (not DBG or the likes), and they said that they didn't want to confuse 'SS' with a ship's name instead of the actual meaning (even when given context), were used to the J, and because it's apparently very old enough to be a valid thing. In the past, I thought Spanish speakers referring to it as "Super Saiyajin" was one thing, so the J was fine, I thought (until you explained it), but I didn't understand why most English speakers I've seen used the J, when they normally call it "Super Saiyan", without the "jin". Maybe it was because of the name in Japan? Even prior to your explanation, I've always wondered about that.

>Tri Beam

Remind me again, did the move do any damage to Cell, or did it just push him back?

Raeng:

>not as invested

I am by no means as knowledgeable as GMG is, but I think two things everyone should know about Z is about a certain win record, and how 'useful' the Spirit Bomb actually is throughout Z as a whole. There's most likely more, though, like the outcome of an hypothetical fight between SS3 Goku and Mystic Gohan.

I will address both of your other points later, right now I don't have the time to respond to it all.

Roy: >the whole saga
Well regarded in the West.  Not so much in the East.

>needing them alive
Not necessarily.  Just not absorbed.  ECW could have sealed them (among other options as with locking in with RoSaT then blowing the door *could even do this to Cell*).  Disabling and killing them works (murder in general, obviously).  18 could have just blown herself up anytime Semi was distracted.  17, too (but that was never crossing his mind).  Tien could have just blasted THEM with that ridiculous attack (or just used ECW *or bait a massive KMHM just to auto-deflect it for big damage*).  Trunks is a putz for not instantly trying to kill 18 when she was spotted (looks worse in the anime when he gets right up to her and gives the option to flee).  They can simply hide.  Gokek was able to warp to the field.  Had he just done so, grabbed one and IT'd them away (like to Other World *King Kai*), that pretty well takes out the concern with evolution.  But DB is a series that thrives on bad decision making getting rewarded in the long run.  They needed the foul-ups to be ready for the next problem (even if they don't cause that self-fulfilling prophecy, the cycle must go on *else they will job when it isn't their fault one day*).

NOTE: Of course, I get what you're saying.  Suddenly they find themselves framed as not yet all that bad (just want to kill Gokek, which is reasonable) and a proper villain appears to gobble them up threatening untold destruction.  Like Vegeta, they end up working with heroes, but unlike him they don't get to do enough to even be called anti-heroes.  They're just victims suddenly (18 goes full damsel *unable to even try to defend herself*).  Suddenly the main villains are just a stand-in for the Dragon Balls hunted in previous arcs.  Villain gets them first, so things get worse.

>proper actual fight
Don't get a lot of those in Z.  Most of 2-0 was off-panel.  Filler puts on a good show, but one has to realize it isn't canon.  Very little of it happened.  Even some 'even' fights get one-sided for one reason or another (like the Zarbon rematch where Vegeta played dirty).

>beam struggle
A pretty DB thing as of Z.  The dramatics are taken even further with Toei's additions (big improvement).  No, rather than a fight, we get Vegeta's growth (getting Rice Junior jacked up *who then gets down on himself thinking he can't win like that*).  One of the shame's for the boy is never having a single fight where he was the underdog (winning with wit) or on even ground (prevailing with skill).  He had to be well beyond his foe (and/or have help).  He jobs even at those times (Supes was a sad one *putting on a show before absorbing the others just to bully him when he could have taken the failed MC's power from the start*).  No respect.

>introduced sooner
At least have some build-up.  Do other things until ready for all that.  They were in such a rush to make the space adventuring happen they threw caution to the wind.

>assumed Future CHAD was in GT
You wish.  Super tried to coast off his rep, but dragged him through the dirt as much as it propped him up.  No, he's quite the disappointment.  Victory defeated him.  He didn't have the loss needed to make him grow up properly.  Hybrids just don't have the Saiyan drive even if their power potential exceeds pure-bloods.  Doomed to be wastes.  Even if you give them all they can be (and then some), their questionable battle sense is a problem to work around all its own (need proper molding *tragic trauma was what it took for this boy*).

>talked about it before
As we will time and again.  That some official translation localized it improperly is something to let go of (past-be-past).

>you'll live
You'll grow strong enough to someday let go of the falsehood.  Reject the lie.  Cast away whatever reasoning is clung to.  It is then that you too shall become a strong man (overcoming this nonsense *you should expect that I researched heavily into future material early into the stateside appearance of DB as we kept getting dicked around with Raditz...despite the questionable nature of the net then*).  It is a simple thing.  "SS".  See?  Just like that.  One need not cling to that which is untrue forever merely for some arbitrary span of time passing.  You're not a crystalized codger unable to learn better.  Why be Kid Trunks?  

Be:

>whiney
Which dub?

>his own harem
Pretty different take for a villain in DB, yes.  AT would have NEVER allowed it.

>even Goten
Even some of the humans, really.

>3 episode saga bored to tears
Oof.  Hurtful.

>like a lot of things
AT "forgor". *raffs*

>stomped this part
ORE WA?

>fell for a ruse
Someone needs help recalling how things went, I see.  How about it, sailor?  Ready to brave those seas with ol' Capn' GMG?  Fret not.  It is a common error in understanding how things went.

>brutal
That filler ass-kicking by Kid on Geets wasn't too light, either.  As far as canon, about the only brutal beating I can remember was Spopovich laying down THE LAW against Videl.  Kicking her teeth in sells it.  Without that, it would just be another pounding (not like he snapped her arms, blasted a hole in her, took a limb, etc.).

>cut to pieces
Just a stab, rather.  He lacked the power to slice through that armor (at all).  Would have been wasting his strength as his foe got away.  A thrust was more sensible.  That he didn't seem to be targeting a non-armored spot is proof of stupidity (once more).

>cast aside
Not popular enough to hand, I guess.  Doesn't help that Mean Green rushed his advancement of character.  Just premature ejaculates like crazy for lesser results than Bejiter.  Tien is apparently not well regarded for being Chinese.  Being that JP only really cares about what JP consumers think, they weren't really listening at all to the huge audience outside (it took decades of Latin America shilling just to get tranny Broly *then Nu-Broly*).  While DB was being made, he didn't get the sort of following that would see the editor push him with AT (who had no plans for his gimmicks *in his writing, this is a death sentence for you, but it might fly with Toyo*).

>just laughable
Perhaps less so if he had done what 'he' had been doing for basically ALL of canon to get anywhere.  Just merge some more.  "Piccolo" is among the least well earned powers even as compared to TARDku (his boy still wins this dubious honor).  Seriously.  He was born with power beyond his pops, just grew up (not much in the way of training) to be relevant in power, his "rival" wasn't really even trying to get stronger while raising his kid (that didn't last) and he was still unable to pass him (beyond a technique *not saying much when up against a guy who sticks with the most basic, low tier crap*).  The meager power increase from horsing around in the wastes saw him job to death.  Got some proper training, but apparently results that didn't matter enough to even cover (and no KK).  No, he joined with Nail to skip to the tier of Second Form Frieza.

At least this NEW PERSON borrowing that name did some working out so he could go up against Gero.  Not really clear how he stakes up to Frieza (final form).  Seems like he did alright during this period.  Not good enough.  Merges again.  Now he skips way ahead once more as a new entity.  Then gets clowned anyway.  Ran out of fusion fodder (apparently not willing to learn multi-body, make the Nameks train, etc. to set-up a good stock of 'materials').  Got left in the dirt (RoSaT apparently not mattering for him *at least he did it, where AT had Tien bitch out*).  Go the DBM route with a "Gast" situation.  Maybe, then.  Maybe he could approach the level of Mystic Gohan.  Yeah, perhaps with KK (and cybernetics *and fucking god ki*).

Phoenix: >applies to OPM
Were it only so simple as DB.  The source material there is the only authentic, legitimate work of the author.  Officially published.  Drawn and written by him (though influenced by an editor time and again).  With ONE, the web-comic is little more than a draft in reality.  A free script drawn by the author.  He then works with Murata to redo his own story (one of the goofiest retcons had to do with Sweet Mask *unfortunate redraws to be sure*).  In essence, a second draft (properly released).  Arguably, the manga is primary canon (and the webcomic is, as such, just a prototype).  The anime would be the adaptation (clearly not canon).  Toei having their own take is not legitimate or authentic work of the author.  Funi's redub ain't either.  This much is obvious.  Toyo being allowed to dick around while the author (who doesn't give a shit) hands him bar napkins with scribbles and vague notes doesn't hold much water.  Least of all when he admits large portions of a saga are just his ideas with suggestions from AT.

>like 'various'
Yes, just so.

>?
There is no question here.  BoG starts with a retcon that has no legitimacy.  It isn't the author's work alone.  A guy made a script, AT rewrote it and they rewrote that as suited them (Toriyama hardly cares and often jokes about wanting to see what they come up with after it releases instead of supervising properly like fans want to imagine he does).  That is the entire basis of Super and it provides a foundation of sand.  The rest sees either Toei (and its writers) or Toyo doing two different paths of the same recommendations (adding to them, altering them or even dismissing them when not doing it in whatever order with tons of details to fill-in).  In what world could this be a continuation (certainly not with the anime that recognizes filler)?

>asked GFAQs
They're exactly the sort of dipshits (it is hardly just DBG *some are taking the piss and know better there*) that would make the error in the first place.  Not understanding grammar rules or the official way of things.  "Jin" is a suffix and is not to be added like part of the word used for the abbreviation.  Super Saiyan doesn't become SSN in English.  That is nonsense.  "SSJ" has always been dumbass weebshit from the very start.  The same clowns that unironically say Toranksu like they can't fathom the Japanese just can't pronounce "Trunks" (his actual fucking name).

>fallacious excuses
Boats, nazis, tradition, legacy, bandwagon, popularity, culture, etc.  You name it.  They're all invalid excuses for being absolutely fucking wrong (and well deserving of a brick-filled glove slap).  It happens to be that "SS" is used by other things?  Well, that's too fucking bad, isn't it?  Lots of initialisms are used up with English alone.  It is just a pathetic attempt to weasel out of being proper (continue misbehavior).  Let you be as wrong as you like?  Like Hell.  As ever, it is a fine day to REMIND.

>didn't understand why those saying Saiyan used the J anyway
It never had anything to do with what is correct.  For them, they were just kids that wanted to blend in with the lot reading the raws in the now distant past (cool kids with early access).  In the end, just weeaboos.  The same dorks that insist on sputtering all the Japanese terms (just keep calling it Tri-Beam until they die).  Not because it is correct.  But because it is Japanese.  A silly sort.  When I say Bejita-sama, I'm wholly fucking around (fairly evident).

>do any damage or just push
Restraining someone against their will when they should be many times more powerful than you is already plenty.  Chiaotzu's bind worked on Goku in its first showing despite there being no way he was close to the MC.  Later he tried that shit on Nappa and the gap proved too great (didn't work).  Some moves are just ineffectual even with a power gap advantage (like KHMH against Vegeta while hitting effectively for fourfold his PL despite us seeing Vegeta with some unnamed effortless blast insta-killing a guy just 33% weaker than him).  Tri-Beam was punching well beyond its user.  That it was beyond Semi to get through it is all it needs for making a point in its favor (much less defense).  The Toriyama handjob was the first and last apology Tien would ever receive (paid in full all at once).  Sure the move was always billed well, but it was demonstrated to have limits (though not an ideal case with Nappa).  This was an absurd outlier.

If you believe AT (you're a fool), Krillin is above Tien.  Krillin is nothing to 19.  19 can't hang with Gero.  20 was nothing to Pickle (Nail).  He is nothing to Goku.  Goku loses to Vegeta (about the same as 18 *ignoring stamina*).  Vegeta is nothing to 17 (Kami helped Pickle measure up *losing to stamina again*).  17 was noting to 16.  16 was nothing to Semi.  Semi jobbed to Tri-Beam from THIS Tien.  Normally your best non-gimmick move shouldn't have let him even do this to 19 (ignoring the devices to succ as a consideration, of course).  Whatever very lethal force multiplication goes on in the invisible wall heading your way, it is a big damn deal.  For one so much stronger as with Semi, it was too much to overpower, but not enough to seriously harm.  A curious case, indeed.

>most likely more
Plenty.  A fun one for those that like to hide behind other characters (Gokeks often engage in this when confronted with that which they must ACCEPT)?  These types enjoy citing Vegeta's loss (gassed out) against 18 (as they forget Gokek's situation *and what Vegeta did to her shortly thereafter*).  What are they really overlooking?  Given they don't know canon, most are anime-only know-nothings with not an ounce of understanding for pre-Z.  While Yamcha is the first to lose (via fleeing) to a female, it is Gokek who first gets KO'd by one.  Not a cyborg.  A regular human (not even a martial artist).  Mind you, it was via gassing (if that helps at all *treated like vermin*) after he fell for an incredible dumb trap.  Perhaps that is the real basis in Super for her joining the royal family, eh?  Defeating one of the jobber lineage using the surname of a guy who beat up their progenitor (twice in all likelihood given he lived to tell the tale about the Oozaru before jobbing when it happened again *2-1 against his adopted grandson until a rematch later for 2-2*).

>v. Mystic
He couldn't even take Majin/Kid Buu.  Hot air is all he was in Buu Saga.  If he was lucky, maybe the genie would let him puff up in Other World with a dead body and give all he could with KMHM.  Real good damn track record.  Would definitely go down that way (keep dreaming).  Too scared to even try (even with Vegeta there to back him) with Supes.  Shit himself with Buutenks.  No WAKU WAKU to be found.  Good thing his Prince chopped the villain down to size, eh?  Gohan?  He handled Supes pretty easily.  Even Gotenks was able to hang (someone who as a SS1 measured up to Gokek's best).

Made a lot of amusing observations in my continuous process of research, review, etc. in DB for ammo when trolling my fellows.  Quite productive times.  Setting that aside for a bit, I’ve taken notice of this fellow more recently.  Not always super accurate, but generally amusing:

Ayyy:

Seems like people are pretty reluctant (if not in complete denial) to admit that Goku lost his second fight against Vegeta, eh? Referring to your topic.

>reluctant
The first fight tends to have some whinging and coping, but most will ACCEPT the L.  The poll pretty well reflects this (as in the prior topics).  The second is where they get really cross (scrub mindset into over-drive).

>my topic
I'm taking my sweet time there.  Mostly ignoring the regulars there while engaging with SBK (and yourself).  In no rush to do more than poll updates, use more meme material (be it OC from myself or the hit pieces like what is linked above).  I'll eventually make time to respond to the old topic leftovers.

Maybe next week I'll begin (a user at a time).  Perhaps link them and ignore their responses.  Well, until it is time to address things said in the current topic.  Stringing things along to make it last a good while (as a change from prior editions aside from being essentially a two-year special and the third in the series).

Jobber vids don't get as many views much less likes.  Same for anime on JaG's channel (more about Goons from Comics as his actual base).  Shitting on Gokek in particular is going to chap some asses (but P1 saw them mouth off and get themselves in trouble with the rest of the community *and the uploader*, which helps me out *including code "GOKU" becoming a thing for sales temporarily*).

It seems the case is already set in stone that Gokek will be in the Hall of Fame for jobbers (possibly the first), which will leave the overlap of his fans that happen to be TARDku fags feeling some type of way (read: seething).  Suits me.  I just need to take care as the content creator is volatile (from early observation alone).  Regarding comments, I dabbled early in P2, but held off a bit for the full sweep (usually a week or more).  I'll probably get to that by week 3 (have a few exchanges *silencing those willing to put up some fight*).

The like goal for the next release (P3) isn't until 500.  Hard to say when it'll be reached at this rate.  I don't have good outreach to help him (and it) along.  It will happen, but might be three months or more before it is slated to get worked on (sort of like Vegeta's Goon video *P2* where he needs 1K likes, which is easily the most I've seen asked of anyone).  There was supposed to be a free goon vid for JOBalot, but that never came about (which suits me fine *they don't deserve shit including a free pass on him being an immunelet*).

Pretty sure P4-7 are meant to be part of a collective "movie".  Likely stuck behind another like goal (as these videos don't net enough likes and comments to please their maker) that may be as much as 700.  I would expect to wait the rest of this year to see these things unfold.  The series ain't going anywhere nor are the retards backing the man-child, so that suits me fine.  I can work on DBG for a bit (before I have to help /dbs/ with recollection of details *sometimes they forget they can't step to me or some newcomer tourist turns up looking for clout*).  Still need to get back to the clowns at DBM, but that will probably be delayed until year's end.  We'll see.

>ignoring the regulars
Figured you'd want to keep the topic active, so I didn't want to post too much there (to keep it from reaching 500 posts too quickly).

>respond to old topic leftovers
Looking forward to read it.

>videos asking for likes
Shame that it depends on it. Not sure if I'd make a difference. Would tell some cousins of mine, but they're fans of the anime (don't think they ever read the manga), and are most likely Goku fans as well, since one of them sometimes mimics Goku's reaction when Frieza kills Krillin.

>keep it active
Just enough to be open, really. Not really looking to keep those that count waiting, but I have the bad habit of reading when not able to respond (then not being able to make myself reply for a long while as a consequence).

>looking forward to it
Wouldn't get hopes up too high as these things are mostly just repeats.

>makes a difference
It would need to be a large community as with social networking using some 'influencer' type.

>most likely AO
>thus a Gokek
I believe I've noted it before, but the vast majority of the fan base doesn't know the franchise well at all. Most are secondaries (anime-only *non-primary continuity adaptation*). Said material by Toei had chaps working to make the material more presentable. In DB, they aimed the style for kids, but when the tone started shifting (towards "Z"), the art style was adjusted (and budget sometimes increased with popularity) to seem more serious. More importantly, there is a fellow who did a lot of the adjusting of details like dialogue, filler scenarios and even whether things from canon got altered wholesale (though rare). One's perception could easily be warped by such meddling.

His aim? Add depth, dramatics, emotions, romance, pacing, characterization, etc. While the medium itself likes to stretch things out and add filler for on-going material being produced, it would still be his call how things got done (and what that filler was). Bejita getting trashed in movies while Gokek just slides on challenges? Him. Bitches all over the MC? Him. Friendly moments with the cast? Him. He was damage control and hype man for the protagonist. AT took a falling punch and made it into a launching one finishing King Pickle. This guy? Made it into a one-shot of vastly stronger foes until it became "Dragon Fist" (going from a simple visual thing for readers to see his fighting spirit *with a potential power harnessed by Super Kami Water* to...literally a weird magical, golden ki Shenron impaling, strangling and exploding the target).

Goku is shown driving without a license? He makes the episode showing him getting it to humanize the guy. Never shows his wife affection? Show them marrying, off-screen kissing implications, adventuring together, etc. World-building to a limited extent, but mostly changing viewer perception on characters. Like with Geets, Chi-Chi usually got the bad end of it (tiger mom that was a bitch most of the time is how she gets perceived thanks to the bonus material exaggerating that aspect of her as if to help excuse 'our hero' distancing himself). This is the guy to blame for much of Toei's changes to help the rep of TARDku (as best he could). But it can go further.

FUNI, for instance, is one dubbing organization (apparently ready to fall after their battle with the VA for Broly *internal nonsense with casting couch behavior, leftist agendas, cat-fighting, gossip, etc. brought down by a 'hit list' for careers including he who was to be their boss*) for English speakers. Ocean being another. The former in particular went hard with the Superman-lite reframing via dialogue. They try to make the lead more traditionally heroic. He wasn't begging his "best friend" to let Vegeta go so he could have a salty runback for fear of there being no more exciting foes to WAKU WAKU with. Not at all. No, the change was deliberately made that he was actually being merciful and forgiving. Seeing the potential good in people (hoping sparing him would set him on a different path to be proven right by material that was long since finished *easier to manipulate as such*). A con.

Most fans are not aware of any of it. Most wouldn't even care. They speedwatched some of "Z", saw some movies or whatever and got an idea of "Goku" in their head. Headcanon including fanon, community misconceptions, etc. Buying into a mass delusion that is the notion of this character NOT being a terrible father, husband, friend, hero, lover, etc. He's not actually a retarded low-born with brain damage, nope. Definitely doesn't lose more than half of his fights (all of them against Geets) or need help to win anything of note. His signature isn't just iconic, but STRONG and his learning it so fast is amazing (neither thing is true, obviously). Spirit Bomb is the strongest move and beat the most powerful enemies! That's what you're up against. Propaganda run wild.

This series doesn't really matter to the powers that be, so I can go hard on them (myself not even being alone in this). Still barely able to put a dent in the lies believed in with decades of sustained effort. Had to pick certain large communities to influence, but a few are outside my reach (very insular and unaccepting of opposing views *circle jerks, echochambers, etc. little different from Reddit, which was made to be that way by a child sex ring operator and Israeli spy*). Rejecting truth is a creed. A virtue. No, they don't like CANONku. They like their headcanon born of a want for the lead to not be an asexual, man-child, jobber, psycho battle junkie. It doesn't even matter to them if the author explicitly says he can't love his family as more than 'friends' (this being a guy who thinks he can just shelve friends for years without a word when able to warp to them, telepathically call them, etc.). The guy I shit on? "Not my Goku".

It is no small wonder so many reject Super's portrayal (playing up his bad qualities and muting the good *even disregarding the elements played upon previously to get him popular in the first place*) and warm up to GT where he is treated a bit more kindly for their tastes (even if so much is wrong there, too). He lost his crown to Vegeta pretty easily thanks to that. If you ever wish to annoy them, you might try stopping said cousins in their tracks with their citation of his righteous vengeance talk to REMIND them he made the fight about his own satisfaction (seeing 100%), got Namek dusted, tried to save Frisbee from his own attack, gave him ki so he could get attacked AGAIN, held back too much and failed to kill the guy...he just didn't do any of that merciless avenging shit he was yammering on about. Instead, Trucks-kun had to make confetti of the rigged up cyborg before clapping those ashes away (along with "daddy" and the pitiful army).

NOTE: Perhaps they'll bring up having overheard or glimpsed material where the lizardlet returns, blows up Earth with Vegeta only for Goku to save the day. I'd be happy to help you there, too. I've been doing this a long time, indeed.

>repeats
Oh, I see.

>large community
Think he's part of a Facebook group. But like I said, it wouldn't matter either way, especially if I say anything bad about Goku, the anime, or Super being canon.

>influencer
Thought the video only needed to hit a certain like count?

>noted it before
Yeah, but you didn't get into details back then (or at least, not in the post I'm thinking of *CTRL + F "earlier confusion"*).

>perception could be warped
I know mine did some years back. Imagine it would be the same for those who don't read the source material.

>Dragon Fist
Pretty weird, yes. On that note (for what little it matters), don't recall if they gave Goku any new moves in Super, like this one. Believe he remembers Kaioken now, but that's it.

>guy to blame
Taking notes...

>make Goku seem more heroic
Yeah, no wonder so many have the wrong impression.

>not aware of any of it
I once asked someone if he read DBZ's manga, to which he responded he had no idea what it meant. He wasn't related to me, by the way. Different person.

>Spirit Bomb is the strongest move and beat the most powerful enemies!
Yep, this is what my cousins believe. Think I once told one of them that its kill count was 1 out of 3 (I think). Then he brought up movies (absorbing it to kill Android 13). Paused for a brief moment, chuckled, and left it at that.

>very insular and unaccepting of opposing views *circle jerks, echochambers, etc.
I seriously thought you meant Reddit for a moment.

>tried to save Frisbee from his own attack, gave him ki so he could get attacked AGAIN, held back too much and failed to kill the guy...
Actually, someone else told them this exact thing many years ago. Suppose I could remind them about it... If I wish to annoy them, like you said.

>I see
Yes, the kids generally refuse to learn from the past.  New evidence, solid arguments, etc. do not move them.  It has been this way for decades.  Some of it will be new to you, but don't expect a lot from the old material that isn't already covered in this incarnation.

>Facebook
Bleh.  Still, it would be decent outreach if spread around among them.  Not that many would be especially receptive as would be the case if one managed to share it on Reddit, for instance (on a main board, not a meme one).  Twitter shouldn't have as much of a problem to that end, but that is about being the one many follow to get attention (if not riding some trend *setting one is improbable*).  All very gross.

>like count
That's just it.  To do so in a timely fashion requires this.  The maker also wants to see such a thing sooner rather than later to motivate with dopamine hits (proving the effort valid *a success*).  The best way to achieve this is using people able to throw a wide net (exposure).  Were one able to get Pewdiepie to watch and promote the thing, for instance...And at some point he might break through the YT algorithm again (as with his first Green Goblin GOON video being an outlier thanks to getting such help obtaining traction).

>didn't go into details
All good things with time.

>mine did
Can't be helped if that is your only window into the material (a dub taking liberties and censoring an adaptation already censoring and doing its own thing).  Some fixes are appreciated (AT does make mistakes like having Saiyan Saga armor Geets leaning against a tree right after being wished to Earth by accident).  Other things...maybe not so much.  As before, some of the filler is decent (just don't put stock into it).  Some alterations are BETTER than the source, but just aren't authentic and legitimate works, so it is sadly to be dismissed (should not have been done, really).  My favorite example remains everyone trying to help against the bug (when it was just Bejita).

NOTE: Plague of Gripes does good coverage (for a few things really *like Tien being shat on, Super being terrible, etc.) on the topic of Rice Junior as an MC and character.  His version of events for Cell Saga is superior writing.  I would also say Togashi's (YYH) Yusuke vs Toguro is a better version of the same fight set-up.

>new moves
Super didn't, but a movie from Super had him parrot a technique demonstrated by Hit in the anime (ki binding rather than time *already a copy of Guldo's esper ability which was an AoE version of something Blue did better than Chiaotzu*).  That's pretty close.  Manga has him rig up a Hakai and later a ki construct (with a charitable power donation) before using that for a sealing strike as if he knows how to do such things.  Think Toyo's tale also has him be the one using ECW.  Games often name random shit before wikis add them to a list as if they count.  That's how you'll see Gokeks trying to cover their hero's ass on this front.

>KK returned
Anime-only and narratively nonexistent (just 'mastered' blue flexes).  It is never written like x20 (owed to saying things like that, this gives the impression of the side-grade form Geets uses appearing to give him a multiplier on that level *said form is not a thing in the manga, either*).  These are things not part of the bar napkin scribbles at all.  AT abandoned multipliers (part of why tails went bye bye *just handwaves their existence away even for the other universe Saiyans*).  He prefers being able to be vague (I'm surprised Toei don't give him the finger and do an 'official guidebook' with a bunch of made up numbers with his 'blessing' again).

NOTE: Allowing the strawman to stand (SS suddenly being given a strain and drain *as with the rage talk messing with SB except when it doesn't*), FPSS should have been when we saw KK being used in conjunction with a transformation.  It would trounce Cell pretty easily without needing to go far with it.  Wasn't something AT wanted, so it just got the silent treatment (and fanon excuses as with tails not growing back anymore *or future mutts not having them*).

>taking notes
Same guy that STANS for his creation (Broly), by the way.  He had him doubly dunk on Geets as he ran wild on everyone (Gokek was allowed to Toei Punch him away only at the last second with power donations that shouldn't have meant jack *didn't have the clearance to let his boy win as the sequel wasn't assured yet*).  There is no reason the MC to be (even with this set just a bit before the Cell Games anime release) should have been styled on so badly.  He is STRONGER than his dad and ought to have had plenty of motivation to go SS2 in this obviously non-canon side-story set during the training for Cell Games period (yet they're carefree enough to have a party in a park and act like FPSS isn't a thing *not always in SS1*).  Didn't even let Geets go Grade 3 FF (not like his opponent intends to avoid the attack or has the sense to defend) to give the 'legend' something to think about.  Could have been a moment not too unlike Bui vs Hiei (regarding Dragon of the Darkness Flame).  Nope.  Total disrespect to put his OC over (jobbing everyone out without any regard at all).

NOTE: Roshi was there and could have just sealed him, by the way.  TEN?  Not even present.  Fuck 'em.  Not popular enough, right?  Also able to just seal this threat.  Can't be having that.  I won't bring up a ki disc as this is in anime land where power gaps will break the thing.  But Geets has already shown he can use that and wouldn't be nearly as far behind as Chestnut you say?  Shut that whore mouth.  Brocolli is getting promoted and pushed to the stars (as the games and side-stories continue to prove with incredible wank).  I'm surprised Pickle didn't bust out SBC so it could do fuck all again.  Maybe have Trucks-kun's sword reforged so it could be snapped like a twig before he is sent packing once more.

>had no idea what it meant
As in what "manga" is?  Did you explain it was an Eastern equivalent to a comic (and the source material for the franchise adapted into an animated form *cartoon* called "anime")?

>kill count was 1 out of 3
Correct.  It didn't even defeat the other two to cut it slack.  It needed a lot of help working the one time it did.  Setting aside everything else, it was powered by a guy giving his full strength who absolutely styles on a Supes (equivalent of SS3 Gotenks) who already tap dances on SS3 Goku (equivalent of Kid and SS1 Gotenks).  Colossal gap on a pure evil foe with a move designed for the job.  Still struggles (needs a wish to make TARDku full power again so he could push properly).

>brought up non-canon content
Every time.  These days you shouldn't see so much of the movie stuff as you would Super's anime (ToP *as if that was a good showing at all*).  It is fairly obvious why they don't stick to 'what is' (which would include the time he blew up a block with it).  They likely don't even know the canon time it takes to muster the involuntary Earth ONLY that doesn't scale to Saiyan Saga Vegeta (and requires ki from the user to gather *another aspect not recalled even by the author*).

The best showings Spirit Bomb had?  Not by Gokek (nor canon).  Not a good state of affairs.  Trunks had ZERO training on the matter and never heard of the fucking thing just to bullshit one from a dead world with less than a dozen people left (mostly regulars and a superhuman) into a sword that cleaved Merged Zammy in two (someone billed as way beyond SS1 Vegetto).

Geets?  Pickle suggested he reverse engineer and repurpose the move using what he learned on Yardrat (FSF).  First try pulls in ki without any note of cost in and did it rapidly (including a donation eclipsing even the current MUI MC).  Used it for a BUFF (then used to pull a Korra *or Madara if you prefer*).  Pretty silly stuff.

>meant Reddit
They would be one example of this, yes.  The stuff I was saying about a Mossad agent dealing in extortion of powerful people using kids in highly illegal fashion (like what we've done using CIA operations like "The Finders" as the FBI revealed on Twitter)?  That was one of their top posters (and one of the people controlling how the place operates).  She is from one of the most powerful families (with a fake name) in the world.

>REMIND them
There's a good lad.  Just don't forget THE SCORE.  THE RECORD.  AT's will.  Vegeta?  Undefeated against Goku (2-0, by the way).

NOTE: Those sad bitches will hide behind other characters and do all sorts of deflection along with denial using scrub excuses.  I'm fond of when Buu comes up (Kid taken out by SB) not just for going over who helped that plan (and who made it), but who nerfed Buu into being Kid in the first place (down from Buuhan whom was felled by our heavenly prince *using his vassal who then shat himself upon seeing Supes just for Geta to bring him low begging for existence*).

>refuse to learn
I was telling SBK that he's super patient, given that people in the KH3 board refuse to listen how KH2 is superior, they just either think he's a troll or Block him. Guess the same would apply to you, whether the subject is about DB, GoW, and probably others. A few weeks ago, I saw a certain topic in the nuGoW board where a lot of you guys (you, Roy, 5hadows, Infinity, Birdman, etc.) posted in. Does the phrase "book genre" ring any bells? If not, what about playing GoW chronologically?

>Reddit
Yeah, it would just get downvoted to oblivion.

>Twitter
Can't help there. Don't think there's anyone I know who uses it (and 'knows' about DB).

>exposure
There isn't much we can do about it.

>only window into the material
Yes, but at some point I decided to look into the source (and sometime later, the truth *even when I was oblivious about the score, which SBK pointed it out*).

>non-canon material shouldn't have been done
Especially if the result was giving people the wrong impression about the MC.

>Plague of Gripes
Never heard about him, a Google search showed a YT channel and some furry images. Is it the same fellow?

>Yusuke vs Toguro is a better version of the same fight set-up.
Will look into this.

>never written like x20
A bit late to realize, but this was around the time where I thought Beerus was always going to be a moving goalpost.

>FPSS + KK would trounce Cell easily
Indeed. But within the realm of possibility, wouldn't Cell know how to do this as well (don't remember up to what point Gero stopped collecting Goku's DNA *but I'm leaning on Saiyan Saga*)? Imagine if Gohan knew how to use it (but then he'd need to be careful to not get absorbed when facing Super Buu).

>same guy that stans for his creation
No wonder he appeared in three movies (four if you count nu Broly).

>Gokek was allowed to Toei Punch him away only at the last second with power donations that shouldn't have meant jack
Exactly.

>stronger than his dad
Yeah, I wondered why Gohan didn't put more of a fight.

>motivation to go SS2
>Grade 3 FF
>sealing
Yeah, so many things that would've realistically happened, didn't. Instead, they had to go with the pier donation thing.

>as in what "manga" is?
Yeah.

>explain
Yes, but he didn't seem too interested in it.

>still struggles despite the power gap
>target was something SB was designed for
How can people not see that this is inefficient?

>SB's best showings weren't by Goku
>not a good state of affairs
Very true.

>Mossad agent dealing in extortion of powerful people using kids in highly illegal fashion was one of their top posters
Wut.

>don't forget 2-0
Of course. Also, did you make this, by chance?

https://chadsofa.miraheze.org/wiki/2-0

>hide behind other characters
He'll most likely bring up a 'what if' scenario (Goku using SS3).

>super patient
It is a tough lot, but he's no stranger to inking such fine literature as this:

First Edition, by the way.

An accurate depiction of an average conversation between teacher and a soon to be corrected ward.

>book genre
It mostly brings to mind a former co-worker trying to brag while hilariously outing himself saying he would DAILY read 3K page books.  I need not expand on that.  As for what you're referring to, I'm not able to recall the specific incident, no.

>play order
I've had that conversation more than once.

>not much to be done
That's what I told Zim.  I'll do what I can, but don't expect much.

>degenerate furry porn
That's the fellow.  Has a few vids regarding DB, but started with TEN:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPBmbs-JPhHfF-d08nm_NY7Q1kO7vqG4r

NOTE: Doesn't quite have all his facts straight, but be assured he's not far off the mark.

>look into YYH
You do that.  Dark Tournament is great.  Downhill from there with a finale that is...different.  Might like it.  If you fused Bejita with the triclops, you might find the product in that series:

Another show-stealer, but this one doesn't take the Bulma of the series.  Gets the...18, I guess she would be.:

>shouldn't Ceru have it, too
Indeed.  The samples were taken from Saiyan Saga.

>Mystic Rice using KK and STILL getting gobbled up
You just KNOW it would go down like this without Bejita-sama to hold his hand.

NOTE: I wonder if Pickle fans are vulnerable to emotional damage should I point out that Geets gets called "Uncle", but Big Green isn't even addressed by Bread.  She doesn't give him the time of day at all from what I can recollect.  Might be fun to deride the babysitter as a FORGETTABLE nanny who does it for FREE.  See how they feel about that.

>so many things
Including warping to Earth (if playing pretend it is too far, just warp to KK *always seems close enough despite being so weak and in Other World* first) to pick up Devil Man from Baba.  Borrow him for Devilmite Beam.

>wasn't interested
It is the reading, I'm sure.  He ever put himself through subs for anime?

>how can people be so blind
Willful ignorance?  They see only what they wish to.

>wut
Her involvement is tied into darker matters that are joked about by Foundring in a fun song mocking their most recent failure on the world stage:



As for a tamer bit of coverage that is just directly informative:



>did I make this
The wiki?  No.  The article?  No, but I did some of the corrections.  As you may recall, I'm the most prominent (and among the oldest) figures among those spreading the truth about this matter (in particular).  Absolutely the top opp to Gokeks of all time (other than Toriyama himself).  Speaking of such things, JaG suggests the next (big) part of the Jobber series (with you know who joining the Hall of Fame as its first entry) will be out in a week or so.  How unfortunate.  I'm going to hate sharing that around.

Anyway, I've been doing this for over two decades (intensifying with time).  I rarely bothered with helping the chans to that effect owed to the way they work (lessons easily missed and quickly forgotten).  Super came along and a general (this being /dbs/ *against the rules, by the way*, which is ignored by mods as a containment sub-board for the most part) formed regularly discussing the material.  A perfect opportunity to hammer them until I brand my mark upon them.  My job was done well, as you can see.  The bulk of the things they're saying in that article are from the antics I get up to in the threads.  The wiki itself is (best I can tell) made by a guy that identifies as a Jerryfag (Ayy the Gray's supporters almost certainly are just taking the piss, but I dig their style).

NOTE: Still need to update it with more examples of 2-0 as with Vegeta with Gohan, Nappa with Piccolo and Buutenks with Gohan (worse if treating all forms of Buu as different beings where it becomes 4-0 *4-1 if you count his ki as support for the SB, but then you're saying Suna beat Kid, which is just silly*).  The old image they supplied of Bejita-sama's famed final tally over his vassal was lost, so I need to fix that for them, too.

>what about Supa Saiya Jobber Tres
Ah, yes.  Another popular choice (like whinging about Majin while forgetting the dead body and SKW).  Made up later and wasn't going to save him even if he had it (I got the impression it wasn't even twice as strong as SS2 despite what a non-canon mag says *and we both know how such a lackluster lead at the cost to stamina has worked out for TARDku against his prince in the past*).  Glow-in-the-Dark, Hippy Caveman form?  Didn't even get the impression it would last a full minute.

While his power should be able to do the job, this is JOBalot we're talking about.  He proved to us he can't do right in a fight against his master.  This form?  Definitely showed he could NOT get over himself enough to take things seriously (blitzing as he needed to if he wanted to do more than be gassed out by his own misplaced pride source).  I wonder how he would feel being told ol' Geta would beat him there, too.  Setting that aside?  Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but didn't.  Take the L, kiddo.

NOTE: I'll try to get to you and a little birdy before too much longer.  Then I need to get started up with Zim again.  Probably touch base with SBK (rubbing salt into the wounds of DBG with the same update I gave you).

>first edition
I can imagine how people reacted upon seeing that.

>depiction
Wait, are they really saying that exploiting mechanics is a bad thing to do?

>incident
Look at post #314, see what he has to say in regards to 5hadows' quote.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/191627-god-of-war/76572771?page=6

>more than once
Fair point, I should have known.

>started with TEN
Interesting. Let's see what's it about.

>21 episodes in just for Ten to use a technique
>no more techniques up until episode 83
>Goku doesn't think of him when looking for candidates for the ToP
>Ten gets sidelined even in his 'own' episode
>Roshi manages to beat Ten
>does basically nothing of note in the 'teamwork' episode
>finally lands a Kikoho against 'not-Cell'
>the second Kikoho seen in the ToP is just him hitting a rock
>Ten gets eliminated (but for some reason the guy who was on the edge of the ring beside Ten didn't)
>somehow made more clones to bring the guy that eliminated him along with him
>Making it clear that it doesn't matter that they lost Ten
>weaker than Krillin
>no love or mention about the techniques he used in DB
I didn't think it was this bad. Absolutely ridiculous.

>look into YYH
Will do. I have a bit of free time to do so now.

>show-stealer
He seems... strangely familiar. And I mean besides what I've looked up on Google and seen in your channel.

>I wonder if Pickle fans are vulnerable to emotional damage should I point out that Geets gets called "Uncle", but Big Green isn't even addressed by Bread.
Only one way to find out.

Also, excuse me for getting the topic a bit closer to the posting limit. Got carried away. So I will leave it at that.

>Devilmite Beam
Keep forgetting this is a thing.

>It is the reading, I'm sure.
Safe bet.

>He ever put himself through subs for anime?
If Spanish dubs are not available (DBS when new episodes were coming out, and more than half of Naruto Shippuden), yes. Think he also sees Dragon Ball Heroes.

>They see only what they wish to.
True.

>Reddit's dark tale
...I never knew the rabbit hole was that deep, or that it was a rabbit hole to begin with. I'm seriously amazed at what I just saw.

>didn't make the article
I see. Just don't know of many others who speak about 2-0 besides yourself and SBK (and two other users).

>JaG suggests the next (big) part of the Jobber series (with you know who joining the Hall of Fame as its first entry) will be out in a week or so.
Does this have to do with you mentioning that he got distracted in your topic?

>My job was done well, as you can see.
I commend you for your dedication.

>The bulk of the things they're saying in that article are from the antics I get up to in the threads
That explains why I thought the article was written by you.

>more examples of 2-0
Huh, and I thought they already noted them all.

>like whinging about Majin while forgetting the dead body and SKW
Indeed. That reminds me, didn't Goku learn ki-sensing from SKW?

>and we both know how such a lackluster lead at the cost to stamina has worked out for TARDku against his prince in the past
I hadn't thought about it that way. Would be hilarious to see a similar scene playing out.

>I wonder how he would feel being told ol' Geta would beat him there, too.
"Dude, please stop, you have no idea what you're talking about".

>Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but didn't.  Take the L, kiddo.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

>NOTE: I'll try to get to you and a little birdy before too much longer.
Take your time. Feel that I'm ready to get one of those 'run skeletons' you mentioned in the other thread for a NUR coverage (I'll open a new topic in the GoW1 board on GFAQs, when you're available). Just need to know all of what is allowed and what isn't. And I mean just about everything that I need to know. Think I recall that 'increasing' health via death was not allowed, in one of my glances towards run coverages. I want to know all the details (especially for the '+' variation, but I suppose knowing about the rules of other runs would be good to know for future reference).

But as I said, I'll look into YYH in the meantime.

Should be worth noting that I got GoW2 now. Guess I could get the handhelds as well, but I want to play DMC1 (which I also got) after being done with GoW2.

How absurd. Pants-pisser pretender villain (not the antagonist just like the previous fake-out *anti-hero*). Momentary tease it would be important for Gokek to remember his background (had some hoping he would get edgy *no fucking chance and if anything it would hinder UI mindset lending more towards UE*). I can only assume the Namek made these balls as it has always been a rule that without the maker around they go dormant. They also scale to that person depending on the construction. Frankly, these balls are stupid OP what with the same day cycle for a wash with there being just two spread across a globe. Believe we went over that before. Yet Bardock is able to overpower a wish to send him away (as is doable when more powerful than the dragon else you should be able to just wish for the death of people against their will).

There is a pretty substantial controversy over a recent wish that is being teased. It might have gone through, actually. Bardock was asked if he wanted to be warped out of danger (back into it really), but answered something to the effect of 'that his sons thrive'. Translation is tricky. The implication is that the plot armor of Gokek comes from this. Clearly it didn't do much for Raditz...or did it? Super Hero has rumors of his return (as if the 'too many monkeys' lot weren't vocal enough about their hatred for the current hierarchy *why not Nappa while we're at it*). Then again, there is an issue with how that movie is presented (with regards to even recognizing this arc or Moro's * as ever, Toei and Bird via Toyo playing at AT are not on the same page*).

Think of the implications (provided it goes through and can be done). All his chance meetings, fortune in battle, favorable interactions, etc. can be attributed to a wish. Figuring out things an idiot shouldn't? Surviving when he should die? All of it would be a blessing he didn't earn. The low-class carried by plot (who still jobbed both times to Bejita-sama *too much for the wish or is it "thriving" to serve as vassal among vassals to his Lord and Liege, the Majestic Prince*) explaining his assent to power even more than living to get zenkais, drinking feline jizz for an amp, being handheld into god ki, extended time among the dead for more desirable training, working with the highest power structures (and 'best' masters), etc. Perhaps him being tolerated by Zeno himself.

The ToP incident (which got damage control) was substantial. He was framed as a villain where his retardation and WAKU WAKU was out of control (enemy of the multi-verse and menace to his own team). They walked it back in a future issue (as they probably will this business to some degree) such that it was always the case the supreme being would erase everyone, but it was just on delay (with no stay of execution or way out on offer). This gave them a chance (as compared to the previous implication of putting their necks on the line for his battle boner to amuse an insane child deity he could convince NOT to have such absurd stakes to the level of erasing the souls and existences within multiple universes).

Him being kissless (and not being able to love his family being being friends *or even being around for the birth of his kids let alone understanding why Vegeta cares to be*) was too much for Gokek advocates. That REALLY hurt their ability to see him as a macho man (who totally likes sex, is into girls, is attractive to females, etc.) Not a manchild imbecile. An asexual retard. Ignorant hillbilly. Even in canon this is the reality, but we couldn't know for sure it never happened. Super makes it clear, but they deny it with cope about how he just meant mama bird-feeding food. They favor Toei for letting them interpret it as such where the manga version wasn't so generous. The only joke here is at the expense of TARDku and his "fans" (of a lie).

The laser incident evokes the old demons of the past. His MANY times being misdirected and/or dropping his guard. Naivety (like giving beans to opps *fourth incident with Moro*). Guns shaming him keeps being a thing, but to see him penetrated by a common ray gun in the debut of Blue from the front by some non-fighter lackey? A fucking decoder ring with a red light pointer for entertaining cats (which JOBalot always puts over as with Billy *AT's insert for a pet of his*) brought him down. Damage control there was to have it from behind with lots of talk of how his guard was down so his defenses were lowered (doesn't really help). Someone with Popo training should automatically detect the threat, but at his level to get caught without reacting to the sound is ridiculous even before considering his being weak enough to get penetrated even in REST when not near dead.

Sure it was awful he forgot the seal and/or beans. Wasn't great he had his youngest doing his job for him (still not keeping his promise to his wife). And yeah he just keeps jobbing with whatever new forms or techniques he bumbles into, but he tries...right? That counts? He beat Hi-...No, actually he forfeit. At least he looked good for it? He won the ToP! ...He got eliminated while holding the AYY for the lil' lizza who knew about 17. Ignorant of the plan. Dumb luck about the right wish being made, too. Toei version has them fall out before he does, so they lost in taking him out. This unfavorable tie (mutual elimination) is saved by 17 again. Not even sure they knew about him that time (making it just an accident he carried the team). This business with the wish (were it to be how it looks)? Might eclipse all of these things combined. The anime-only Gokeks are immunized against this danger (for now), but the people advocating for the tracer would be in shambles among the Carrot Cult. All this "earning" talk becomes highly dubious. Also, the chapter ends with Bardock being wanked as usual (possibly with UI, but it sounds more like UE sans Hakai). Didn't look like SS, but a FSS situation isn't out of the question.

NOTE: It did seem suspicious how strangely quiet things were with the schizoid, denial enthusiasts. Quick to extreme irritation even (trying to doxx me with my most recent drive-by REMINDER). Had to settle for coping with the wiki trying to talk shit, making copypastas, falseflags, etc. They'll be in real bad shape when I give them focus again (busy with simps for Speedy and helping Xristos Zimnas reach his great potential).

>how they reacted
Anything other than falling to their knees in prostration would be ill-advised.

>are they really
Most commonly with i-frames, but mostly when done with what is referred to as "tricking" (fine for grabs, object interaction, spells using MP at the time, evades and sometimes attacks).

>Alky on Shadow
Which one? Apparently I'd responded to him.

>this bad
It's not great. This is my comment from four years ago:

Spoiler:

I later revisited it some 3 months ago with an updated understanding of TEN's situation:

Spoiler:

NOTE: More still has been learned and will be learned as I continue to pour over material for him as I have been doing for Geets.

>bit of free time
Ideally I'll be able to say the same for a few sessions (get back to your runwork).

>familiar
His visage gets around. Edgy manlet is as the picture indicates. Something of a mix of TEN with Bejita. The latter is quickly apparently, but the former requires a bit more thought (not just the extra eye). Perhaps something to go over more down the road.

>on my channel
The old AMV, then?

>one way to find out
I don't have an occasion to shit on them at /dbs/ (perhaps when heroes comes out and some talk out of pocket), but there is a guy at DBG I can use for him, Chestnut and the lizardlet.

>the topic
We talking about THE REMINDER?

>keep forgetting about hax
Just as AT would have of us all (and himself).

>watches Heroes
Oof. That's rough. Some AF tier shit.

>that deep
It gets darker as you go, but the maker didn't want to stew in it (turned back to peer at the remnants of light).

>don't know many others
It is just a J the Ayy fan (runs the place) taking note of the usual lines mostly myself would be using on the matter. An attempt at playing 'historian' (already one for being a gatekeeper in the form of 'warden' roles *when he reports that Bejitafags are not wardens in the article about such activity, it is mostly referring to how I don't concern myself with that business given I'm the most prolific representative with the only other standout being a lesser imitation that hosts streams and spams images using a purchased pass to go faster than regular posters*). Easy to pick up an ED vibe from the place. Perhaps not enough effort into covering things properly (origins like KYM).

I'd also made HBOC, but it hasn't received proper coverage yet (despite being in common use at this point as a phrase for a practice that was extremely closely tied into how Gokeks contend with confrontation *with 2-0*). "Hiding Behind Other Characters" (can't beat 'em, so bring up someone else who has *even pretending to be a fan of them and not the person being defended from the opponent with the advantage*). For Gokeks, it can be Spots, Huriza, Boo-boo, etc. Generally there is a desire to work those the Carrot has bested, so it can't be turned against them too easily (thus favoring the tranny albino mutant). Sometimes even people that he has nothing to do with (18 *despite more recently having it pointed out how Bejita got her VORE'd and the 'jobbing to women' thing was turned against them via citation of Mai gassing TARDku*). Even someone who hasn't actually beaten Geets at all (homosexual forced meme of the past in the case of Pickle).

NOTE: With so much of my vernacular flavoring the coverage and even some additions from myself, it is only natural it sounds like me. Before the days of the culture turning against "moe", there was a guy who took my side in shitting on Gokeks by repeating the basic takeaway in a variety of ways as clarification (using an anime squid girl for his picture). I've used his quote for an edit I made for Bloomer and I think one other image.

>related to distraction
Just so.

>noted them all
There were some incorrect inclusions (Cueball over Vegetable) and one remains (Ayylmao over JOBku). I'm noting a few that are missing. If being less favorable, Rice Junior should be 0-3 against Bejita-sama in canon (for the filler kids it moves up to 0-4), but I choose not to count him eating a gut shot unable to fight back. Not necessarily TKO'd (definitely not KO'd). Wasn't winning even with his prince flying off on him. Just a hit-and-run domination. I forget if Roshi was even present in canon for the Pickle Senior stuff. IF he was...he might be 0-2 against him (dying in the ECW attempt).

It's a lucky thing the old pervert wanted into the 'undefeated against the MC' club else PUAR would have become 2-0 over the pathetic jobber MC. With Super we currently have Grannie as 2-0 over 'our hero'. Technically, it belongs on the list. You could argue him being with Bejita during the end of the fight would be a tie, but it is still 2-0...-1. No wins, thus it holds. While the arc was on-going Moro was way over 2-0 for him and his most superior master. Technically, the goat is still undefeated against him (should be X-0 *there were so many jobs against him*). Billy Cat Man, too. Forgot to include Rice Junior on the list (aside from the things noted previously).

Need to add images and fix the most important one. Got help the kids keep the story straight. Just a pain to make myself learn the wiki formatting stuff. I give them all this fun material, but the only effort shown is with the admin talking up his boy (and the janitor he did battle with for hours). Could also bring up counter-examples to people that mistakenly believe in instances that don't actually apply (like with the bug against Geeter *closer to being the other way around*). Different timelines prevent some from applying. Ah, another one. Seru made one F. Toranksu give up against him before killing him (as SPC). The Ceru he got back at wasn't the same guy (just as the first Trucks-kun killed was a different mutt bastard twink). Nor the other one he and Chestnut tended to.

>learned ki sensing from SKW
Correct. He didn't develop it on his own. Without it, IT is impossible. Doubtful he could even use SB, frankly. Puts him in a bad place for some encounters, obviously. This aside from the passive Oozaru amp (tenfold more power than he should have at all times without needing to ever master the state or expose himself with weaknesses).

>hadn't thought about it as such
Yes, unlike Buu who can keep it forever while taking no damage, Gokek gets hurt and drains a hurry. Bejita-sama has already twice shown he can weather storms of equal proportion for longer than his vassal can keep that state up. KEKarot can't stop horsing around when he should blitz with it. All that and one has to keep in mind how we've been in this place before. Of course, accepting that it is just shy of x2 of Bejita is a bitter pill. Not that it matters as he just wasn't putting on a show better than Buu.

>would be a scene of great hilarity
Indeed. Be that with the dead body being deported by Baba for a DQ loss (BFR'd *Battle Field Removal*) or being drained fully to a tired and almost helpless base (AT forget SB costs ki as of Namek, so he got away with it on the Supreme Kai world as well) in his living body.

>no idea what you're talking about
Has he ever been told KMHM (the iconic blue *not in canon* beam) is actually really basic in canon? That it is LOW TIER? With a fourfold power advantage over a target it didn't even deal damage? The multiplier (x2.2*) doesn't compare well to others. GG, for instance, is at least x2.93 based on the power struggle. Maybe tell him SB is even less efficient. The full involuntary Earth orb probably couldn't defeat Nappa if it landed clean. Definitely wouldn't kill him. The Namek one was super wanked when you get into the details (ask away and I'll supply them). Still failed. The final case was VOLUNTARY. It had a near full sample of Mystic Gohan who is a league above Supes who is a league above Kid. Because this pure evil target (that could just warp away or send a piece of himself to safety) was up against a TIRED caster he could just catch it? That he needed to be restored to push it here was awful. No reason why it ought to have required any help upon landing (still seems strange it isn't homing and even attractive like gravity against foul ki).

>need a blank run skeleton
If you're ready to do some extensive typing (and reading *and possibly responding*), sure.

>NUR topic
>possibly at GFAQs, too
Right, right.

>what isn't allowed
Death exploitation is frowned upon, but it isn't a rule. You can save scum and avoid fights intended to be optional, even. It takes a major bug such as getting infinite of a resource (HP or MP) if not sequence breaking in unintended fashion (clipping walls, going over barriers, etc.). High Jump is intended, so going to ledges it reaches would be permitted for GoW1. Minor exploits as with tricking, cancels, boundaries, restarts, etc. are all fair-game. It only starts to be more worthwhile to check on DQ conditions with complicated runs like PAIN.

>in the meantime
Just be ready for a sad 'filler' after the big tournament arc (has a great ending, but getting there sucks ass). The second tournament is...okay. Ending is 'different' (sort of good). Author didn't want to continue despite being told he had to.

>have other entries to work on
Plenty to keep you busy, indeed.

NOTE: Seen any of Zim's stuff yet?

>want to work DMC1 as well
What's the plan there?

>pants-pisser pretender villain
Talking about Super?

>movie
Is the manga even recognizing nu-Broly?

>Him being kissless (and not being able to love his family being being friends *or even being around for the birth of his kids let alone understanding why Vegeta cares to be*) was too much for Gokek advocates.
Hmmm, this could prove useful for me to use.

>The laser incident evokes the old demons of the past.
Gotta love every time this is brought up.

>trying to doxx me with my most recent drive-by REMINDER
What the actual fuck.

>Most commonly with i-frames, but mostly when done with what is referred to as "tricking"
Assume that summoning Artemis is one such case?

>Which one? Apparently I'd responded to him.
Alchemy's post, where he mentions that he isn't into the [book] genre.

>four year old comment
As thorough as always, I see. For someone who hasn't read the manga in years (such as myself), I'm not able to catch the finer details, much less elaborate on them.

>not sure how weights can decrease one's PL
>KKx20 + Kamehameha shouldn't have been stopped so easily
Makes sense.

>elaboration on how GG was superior to Kamehameha
Did anyone respond to this?

>On the topic of zenkai, the worst was Goku getting a 33x from having his body thrashed by Vegeta.
That is pretty absurd, yeah.

>Ten being able to send back ki attacks back at his opponents
Definitely something that should've been expanded upon.

>AT's favorite
You meant the one who resembled Cell? Didn't AT hated the spots? Or is it just this one version of him which is his favorite?

>Ten couldn't handle RoSaT in canon
That was used by kid Goku, right? How long did he last?

>stacking Tri Beam via clones and multi arm
>ways of improving Dodonpa
Clever.

>Seriously, this man is sold short when he should be standing tall.
Lots of missed potential, indeed.

>Try to imagine the salt of SS4 Gogeta's using their lvl7 x100 BB KMHM only to get insta-killed by this Uno Reverse of an option.
Ha! Definitely would be something worth watching.

>Krillin had no business being stronger
Exactly.

>Ten would kill Semi if he was allowed to stack his techniques to power up Tri Beam
2EZ.

>NOTE: More still has been learned and will be learned as I continue to pour over material for him as I have been doing for Geets.
...More has been learned? And I thought that was pretty thorough as it is. You really are impressive.

>Perhaps something to go over more down the road.
Indeed. Will let you know when I finish reading it.

>The old AMV, then?
Correct.

>We talking about THE REMINDER?
Yeah. Aside from this thread and the one you noted, I don't know if there's any more DB related topics where you're present. I normally do not visit 4 channel, even (stumbled across the 2-0 article by typing 'tardku' on Google).

>Oof. That's rough. Some AF tier shit.
Figured as much, but as long as it is 'official' DB content, he'd happily watch it.

>It gets darker as you go
Good God.

>I'd also made HBOC
Haven't seen it.

>NOTE: With so much of my vernacular flavoring the coverage and even some additions from myself, it is only natural it sounds like me.
I see. But still wanted to confirm if it was you or not. Now I know.

>It's a lucky thing the old pervert wanted into the 'undefeated against the MC' club else PUAR would have become 2-0 over the pathetic jobber MC.
...Puar? You mean Yamcha's companion? How low can Goku get?

>Technically, the goat is still undefeated against him (should be X-0 *there were so many jobs against him*).
He is? Then who beat the goat (if they did it at all)?

>the moving goalpost, too
I would think so, even if I'm not keeping up with the manga.

>Need to add images and fix the most important one.
Would be fun to see them.

>Just a pain to make myself learn the wiki formatting stuff.
Oh, I see. Understandable.

>Could also bring up counter-examples to people that mistakenly believe in instances that don't actually apply (like with the bug against Geeter *closer to being the other way around*).
Why not? Text should be more simpler than adding images to a wiki, right?

>Without it, IT is impossible.
Oh, yeah, that's right.

>This aside from the passive Oozaru amp (tenfold more power than he should have at all times without needing to ever master the state or expose himself with weaknesses).
So, if you think about it, a Goku with Oozaru's boost AND KKx4 + Kamehameha couldn't beat Vegeta. Or even Majin Vegeta with SS2 and a dead body, as you noted earlier. Hilarious.

>Of course, accepting that it is just shy of x2 of Bejita is a bitter pill.
Something to keep in mind to remind others.

>Be that with the dead body being deported by Baba for a DQ loss (BFR'd *Battle Field Removal*) or being drained fully to a tired and almost helpless base (AT forget SB costs ki as of Namek, so he got away with it on the Supreme Kai world as well) in his living body.
Quoting a part of one of your poll options; "Too bad 3-0 can't happen with canon being done."

>Has he ever been told KMHM (the iconic blue *not in canon* beam) is actually really basic in canon? That it is LOW TIER? With a fourfold power advantage over a target it didn't even deal damage?
No... Not yet, that is.

>Kamehameha is inferior to Galick Gun
Haven't told him that yet either, but I do recall that he proudly claimed that Warp Kamehameha did 'more damage' than Final Flash.

>Maybe tell him SB is even less efficient.
Pretty sure that would be too much truth to handle at once.

>The full involuntary Earth orb probably couldn't defeat Nappa if it landed clean. Definitely wouldn't kill him.
Especially if I mentioned this.

>Kid was able to catch SB
Ah yes, I thought SB was only able to be caught (or redirected?) by 'good' people?

>still seems strange it isn't homing and even attractive like gravity against foul ki
Very much so.

>If you're ready to do some extensive typing (and reading *and possibly responding*), sure.
What should I be typing about? The tactics I would be employing for each and every encounter I come across, and nothing else (outside replying)? If so, then that should be no problem. Frankly, I like reading more than typing, but that depends on how well I know about a certain subject (which should still be no problem for just noting how I approach fights). Responding shouldn't be an issue either. If anything, that makes the 'typing' more worth it.

In any case, if recording was a possibility for me, I would definitely do that instead. But it cannot be done.

>possibly at GFAQs, too
Just GFAQs, not both places.

>Death exploitation is frowned upon, but it isn't a rule.
Noted. I wasn't planning to exploit that, either way. Feels somewhat cheap.

>You can save scum and avoid fights intended to be optional, even.
My plan was to try and tackle every fight I come across.  

>It takes a major bug such as getting infinite of a resource (HP or MP)
Infinite HP? I only know about one of the costumes having infinite magic, and regenerating MP.

>Minor exploits as with tricking, cancels, boundaries, restarts, etc. are all fair-game.
Got it.

>PAIN
Not sure if I mentioned this, but I want to let you know that, at the moment, I only plan on going as high as NUR+. I will save PAIN for another time.

>Just be ready for a sad 'filler' after the big tournament arc (has a great ending, but getting there sucks ass).
Okay. Will keep that in mind.

>NOTE: Seen any of Zim's stuff yet?
No. I'm afraid I don't even know if Zim is short for something, a nickname, or his actual username. As such, I don't know the name of his channel.

What I have seen, at least so far, is some exploits and glitches from Akheon's, Satvara's, Heavy Kevy's, and probably someone else whose username I forgot. I watched Shinobier's Artemis CotG run, which is what I used to attempt it myself, but as I said in the GoW1 subforum, I couldn't get past Challenge 2. And I have also seen Bick Benedict's CotG guide, as well as part of Taz's NUR+ playlist.

>Plenty to keep you busy, indeed.
Yep, GoW2, most of Clover's offerings except for RE4 and Viewtiful Joe (which I have already played *still need to revisit the latter on the hardest setting*), Chaos Legion, ZoE2, revisit Shinobi, MGS2-3, and others. In the future, I'll give the handheld GoW titles a try, and if you're still up to teaching them, I'll let you know.

>What's the plan there?
Not sure I understand your question. What's my plan for DMC1? Beat it a couple of times, learn as much as I can about it (with SBK giving me pointers), tackle DMD, attempt it again with no item usage, and/or probably going for the best ranks (along with Special Bonus), then move onto DMC3SE.

Slight correction. Upon recollection, unlike the Kid case where Geets was TKO'd during the victory (unable to enjoy an assist based win), he was active in his role (FSF used for a better SB that led to KORRAku of the Susanoo getting the big win *second for Gokek who had him beaten and gave a senzu for his fourth such case as he is a very, very dumb character*). Thus, upon review, it would not be among the "2-0" (read: character undefeated against another by more than one win) examples. Rather, I should clarify that with images.

>talking about Super
Just so. A guy named "Gas" made the same wish as Granola Bars (to be da strongest *shy of 'GoDs'*, which comes packaged with techniques at random at a level beyond their learning ability for no reason). Rather, his eldest brother is exploiting him (probably not telling lil bro he's got almost lifespan left in exchange for power). When chasing a fleeing Gokek from place to place by way of IT warping (not of the kai version, but the Yardratian edition) he came across some of a previous arc antagonist's gang (whom he was scared of as a boy and peed himself in the presence of *which they happily brought up to laugh at him when he was unwilling to free them talking like he doesn't need their help*). He also gets dirt (though drawn like shit) dumped on him before he's asked if he wants to take a bath before continuing with the fight (he refuses, warps and ends up in some guy's tub with him anyway). Just shaming the shit out of this pretend final boss.

>does Toyo's tale use Nu-Broly
Other than a promo image, I cannot recall any mention of that business at all, no. Some were expecting the warping to lead to setting Gas against the berserker, but it didn't pan out that way (instead leaving him with Whis before multi-warping *something he should have used to avoid dying to bug unless he WANTED to escape his promise to his wife...even going further using his oldest friend's silly magical thinking to prevent his being wished back*). I don't think there has even be consideration of warping to Dende to get healed up for them to go again (or even fuse to easily trash this dork). As ever, the tension is FAKE. Not even sure why they can't just lead Gas to Billy who is sure to piss him off and get merc'd instantly by the moving goalpost.

>useful to use
If you want more on the matter of him being a terrible father, husband, friend, hero, lover, etc., that is doable. Just lots of work to be thorough about. Vegeta? Better in all regards by EoZ. This also sets them off. They will intentionally misunderstand the statement wanting to compare an average of the full history. No, the man who stuck with and could actually love his family as family wins by default. He kisses his wife, fucks her (isn't just mounted for kids), is around for his kids and so on and so forth. Really fucks them up. The Prince of the alien race raised by a space slum lord? Better Earthling with more humanity than the retarded, brain-damaged MC (man-child, that is).

>gotta love the laser thing
It really was egregious. Filler has the rock incident. Super had an elephant step on his hand, which was bad (sold it as painful). It also had his base take damage from a bullet. GT had SS4 struggling to lift a building (held up by glass somehow). Weight-lifting in general is good for mocking DB as a whole. Going back to canon, he got taken out with a single dose of a regular drug. Regular gas, too. A fucking FLU killed him (one even Chestnut tanked without meds despite carrying him while still infectious *his boy was around him training all that time and never needed it, either*). He was threatened by Blue whipping out TNT. Was going to get Kebab'd by a tree, but that has an excuse via brute strength. Not so much when a shotgun at close range was presented like it would blow his head off. What was SHOWN? The Hyper Gun KO'd him and the follow-up was going to kill him (had to get saved). A shot that was stopped by Eighter's armored shell. That to say he has greater durability than the weak-bitch protagonist? Sad.

Speaking of that robot, had to save him from the cold (not even sure how his body was keeping the kid warm, but whatever). A little girl robot saved him from a nazi (wrongly made into a pederast by Toei *Gokeks project to bring down those that make fun their 'hero'...who would later run off with a little brown boy*). A schizo woman saved him from that same guy. A rat saved him from the fella, too. He beats women, too (OT, but fun to mention among some). That includes his wife. Sexual abuser too dumb to tell sexes apart without assault. Back on-topic, a girl is the one that gassed him. Puar isn't a girl, but people confuse him for one (he also defeated their hero *another animal doing the same was the commie pig*). Children have beaten him (pretty sure both the talking animals in question were ~5 while the lead was ~15). Pickle is a child while raising HIS child. Ridiculous.

NOTE: Seriously, he has WAY too many cases of naivety getting punished (especially misdirection to get cheapshot *his attempt at it was a big fail*). The most famous has to be 2-0 itself. Scrubs complain until it is their boy (in-universe he is a scrub, by the way *an ACTUAL cheater where real reals are concerned, but to his credit he isn't intentionally doing so*).

>wtf
Unhinged lunatic leftists are the rule, not the exception among the Gokeks.

>Artemis
Yes, for the Sword Summon (not Sword Sheathe) animation.

>the 'book' genre
HA! HA! Ah, yes. I had a guy at work who claimed he read 3K page books each day. To clarify, NOT that he reds 3K pages worth of books. A single book. Not a volume. Humoring him, I asked if these were auto-biographies or something, but he didn't know what that meant. I clarified it was like that book on Obongo he spoke of perusing. Made fun of him by mentioning it to others only to find there were a fair few people around that didn't see anything suspicious about that claim. Even if you're not an avid reader, it should be obvious no binding exists for such an absurdity. It doesn't even seem feasible for someone to do once much less repeatedly (such large material would run out in short order, I'd think). Who can read with understanding that fast shy of someone blessed/cursed with photographic memory (not even sure THAT counts).

>any responses
No. Not this time, at least. I get them from time to time. Few are willing to accept it even after it is made abundantly clear. Precious few were aware before having it pointed out. Many will reply while citing non-canon (Super) to back the opposite takeaway (among other approaches like talking about how KMHM kept getting improved *nice headcanon*).

>pretty absurd
Plot doing work to get him as strong as he needs to be for the sake of the story the author wants to tell.

>send ki attacks to sender
Not just with a ki shout, but something seemingly not using up his ki/stamina and ignoring PL differences (even if only a hard counter of KMHM as presented *Crane School treats Turtle School as a rival, so it isn't impossible it was made just to flex on them despite already having the better beam with Dodonpa while its master learned Tri-Beam rather than the sealing technique hax of the great master shared between the two former schoolmates*). Just seems too good to exist, so AT dropped it. Would be a problem if he just shits on the most iconic beam at every turn (Gero's ultimate lifeform would have looked awful silly killing himself with his own attack for the finale *what a climax that would make for with TEN kill stealing effortlessly*).

>AT's favorite
Semi. He loved his blackface version (thinks the Sambo look is cute *used it for his first genie Mr. Popo, too*). AT doesn't hate the "spots". That would be the animators of Toei.

>used by Kid Goku
Teen Goku (as he was never actually a Pre-teen or Tween during DB canon). Still, yes. The same Gokek who was amped by SKW to barely (with help) best King Pickle then gets shamed by Popo and finger flicked by Kami. While their, he would (at some point *not known if he was a shrimp or king of manlets like when we see him next*) spend a month in there. I ever go over the details of RoSaT's temperature range, gravity, air quality, size of the space, etc.? Canon actually gives that info (aside from a year in a day). Based on what we've seen Tien do and his PL, there is ZERO excuse for this. He was just being written out. Even Yajirobe should be able to manage with effort.

NOTE: Considering he NEVER stopped training (as he was always with TEN), Chiaotzu should actually be stronger than Chestnut, too. We just never get to see him do things. Wouldn't make sense for him to just peak (when that really isn't treated as a thing).

>clever
The Tri-Beam thing falls apart in canon. It only plays off how it is depicted in secondary continuity (anime). There is, however, no reason to think the fusion hax potential with multi-form can't work (no safeguards are in place to stop it).

>worth watching
Big boy counter-picking. Match-up Hell. Have I ever gone over how FSF with Bejita could play out in FighterZ? Would be hard to recall my coverage well to present the case at that level of the past, but I could try. Just another thing that would make a lot of fights not feel great for the opponent (a lot of the roster would be open to it).

>impressive
A fan of TEN from more than two decades ago knew much of what I know now then. Findings lost to time. Of course, I surpass him now, but there is still more to learn (some details to correct, even).

>reading it
YYH? I didn't get far into my manga session (got distracted). Wanted to see what canon was like (differing from the adaptation quite a bit at the start). Still need to finish (think I wasn't far from the big tournament). You might know the score better than I as such.

>DB topics where I turn up
I get around.

>don't visit the chans much
I've been around them since 2005, but I rarely commented (and was a frequenter with replies much less with images *and making content*) until Super gave a general for Dragonball (perhaps had their been a GoW proper general I'd have a reason to help there). Being a troll, I'm suited to the place. Despite my pride, I don't require a name. I tend to stand out (when being myself).

>TARDku on Google led you to the wiki
What had you searching for such a thing? Were there other keywords entered?

NOTE: Notice these sub-humans expose themselves by showing they frequent the places they talk bad about (GFAQs, Reddit, etc.) enough to encounter my REMINDERS (I place no limits on myself for where I will do business like outreach or how I will go about it *I was happy to use weaponize "moe" to shit on their 'hero', even*).

>official
That is the prevailing attitude among mainstream fans (anime-only that will accept pretty much anything like mindless drones *until told the popular stance shifted as with turning against GT*).

>haven't seen it
You would have to go to /dbs/ to see it best exemplified. The wiki's only mention of it by name is my addition to the 2-0 article. It doesn't have its own page. Having already explored the concept of 'hiding behind other characters', you can find it at DBG pretty readily even in my topic. Gokeks bringing up people other than their guy beating Vegeta in their place as a coping mechanism (preferably someone he has bested so they can attempt a transitive property type connection by implication). The fifth (20% on average) of the users (most vocal bunch as it happens) there that won't accept THE SCORE are precisely the sort to pull such stunts (quite intellectually dishonest).

>confirm who it was
I used an account there, so you can actually just see what I did to change the article. I prefer it that way. There is no need for me to play dirty. I'm able to be accountable (rather than being a VPN kiddie like the constantly ban-evading miscreants that are the adversaries of truth).

>Yamcha's companion
This fellow, yes:

https://imgur.com/a/Q8QveBa

>how low
GT had him put over a small child despite being multiple times more powerful than Buu. JaG should cover such things in time.

>fun to see them
Tempted to lazily throw them up without fully realizing the wording (getting to that in a later edit *along with images*). Just a bother to work with wiki formatting (that requires learning to familiarize with).

>text is simpler
Not as convincing as having accompanying visual proof. Hits harder and is better for the wiki format. Doesn't look as legit without citations.

>that's right
A limitation on the version from Yardrat that doesn't exist for the kai version. The latter uses ki by some amount per warp, but seems to hop to 'worlds' (celestial bodies in genera) rather than places or people. The vacuum of space? Not valid. Some guy in a dimension like RoSaT? Probably not on the table (aside from ki signatures being cut off when the door closes, so the other IT fails, too). Think it could warp OUT of the place, but not into it. Just not clearly defined. GT made IT take up ki. Think Super copied those notes. I forget if secondary material botches the rules for IT. Think so. I'd have to think on it.

>if you think about it
An unreasonable request of the adherents of TARDku.

>to keep in mind
They would certainly not accept it. Might even challenge you to back up that stance. I'd have to remind myself of how I came to this conclusion. One thing to keep in mind is that is usually only takes around 20% to no-sell, one-shot and blitz a fool. Might be hard for me to find my train of thought leading to this particular talking point. I really need to keep better notes. One thing is clear. He's not x4 Geets. He's on par with the fatty and kid edition of Buu. Neither was putting on a show at all suggesting such an overwhelming difference. Really need to refresh myself here. Short on time for now, so I can't do it presently.

>3-0 never
Alas, that's the truth. A fun "loaded" wording to make them accept Super isn't canon (such a thing is forever done) if they want to deny the will of AT. Make it hurt for them to answer as they like.

>did more DMG
The 'Warp' part has no bearing on the attack. This is Gokek that is more than double the Vegeta who used FF. One was caught off-guard. The other was taking it head-on intentionally. One was partially evaded. The other was KMHM (somehow failing when on an equal power footing to the target *half-assing bug* and hitting the fucking core). That it FAILED to kill him there is a SHAME to its credit, not actually a good luck (let alone favorable like with FF letting someone severely outclassed in the moment punch above his weight *wasn't even like he went Grade 3 to output power beyond Trunks as he could have done to make Spots shit bricks more than he already had and decide to NOT take that on at all*). No, the boy is simply not grasping the situation. He's seeing the data, but the filters he put it through? Led him astray.

>too much truth
Hard to believe the lizardlet nearly put it over. Huge jobber moment. The most planets there are even in our universe for a solar system? Nine. Even pretending they are all Earth level (lots of life) and ignoring Namek is dead, ten of those Nappa tier balls combined doesn't even reach Ginyu's level as a real threat. Nearly getting killed by his own admission while at 50% (able to instantly go 70%) and his Death Ball getting neg'd? HUGE jobber moment. Really can't understate it despite not losing/jobbing to it outright. Awful.

>if mentioning this
He would want it reasoned out. Shall I help you?

>good in relation to SB
Why it should care about good/evil is beyond me. Just energy, but whatever. As you say, only good should be able to redirect it, but that is when considering doings so while ignoring PL differences. Evil has to deal with it (maybe having a harder time, but I've seen no evidence of that converse being the case). If it blows up near the 'good'? They're fucked.

>what to put in the blanks
Questions, comments, concerns, etc. being the fat on the bones, but the meat would be the strategies employed, tactics to achieve them, what worked out, what didn't, etc. The devil in the details. You might take a gander at how I do it for further clarification (along with how my repeat encounters let alone runs have me just using "..." or generalizations like 'OS spam', 'grab rape', etc.). No need to type more than necessary for the unworthy.

>recording is out of the question
It is what it is (as it is with me).

>just GFAQs
Suits me either way.

>somewhat cheap
It undermines your ability to progress without mercy handouts, which is why I restart when not doing well enough (acceptable damage is a thing, but one has to be sensible about resources). Limping along with its help is a bit unsightly though valid. I'd be amused to see it weaponized for a 'RotG ONLY' run, mind you. See how well the meme could be realized with no holds barred.

>plan was the honorable kill 'em all
AKheon isn't getting any pacifist nods this day.

>infinite HP
You can be invincible in GoWIII via a bug Waffles used.

>just NUR+ for now
That's fine. It'll keep things simple for both of us. When the time comes for more, we'll cross that bridge.

>Zim
Xristos Zimnas on YT.

>saw some bugs and such
My playlists can help with that (aside from the Glitch FAQs).

>Shin's Artemis CotG
Can compare and contrast with Zim's showing. I didn't have a video of CotG2 or CotG8, so you would have to refer to my comments (as with on Zim's stuff).

>spoiler for coverage
REEEEEE-

>Bick's stuff
Often a travesty. Hopefully he was competent.

>Taz's NUR+
He also did partial coverage of Artemis PAIN (Zim has a fuller run showing).

>to-do list
Busy times, indeed.

>up to teach
Trying to free myself up as fast as I can. Takes a lot of time and energy even for a reply like this.

>SBK pointers
That will help.

>ranks
Bleh. Ideally exploiting the best ways to build it with the meta mentality so despised by /cgg/ers. No NUR or higher?

>then on to DMC3:SE
More worthy of higher focus, I'd say. Funnier to avoid style during challenge runs while showing efficient strats for dps killing things as such (high blasphemy to some).

Before making the proper response...

>Trying to free myself up as fast as I can. Takes a lot of time and energy even for a reply like this.
Would you rather not focus on multiple things at once (this topic and the GoW subforum *excluding any other things you are busy with as well*)? If you feel this current discussion is taking much of your time that you'd rather spend at addressing the other GoW topics, I could momentarily stop, if you want.

>before a proper response
Do as you may.

>multiple things at once
That is already unavoidable.

^ Alright, then...

>not among 2-0 cases
I see.

>clarify with images
That would be nice, yeah.

>the current threat is ridiculed for peeing himself in the past
...

>Some were expecting the warping to lead to setting Gas against the berserker, but it didn't pan out that way
Seems like they'll neglect him entirely as far as the manga is concerned.

>instead leaving him with Whis before multi-warping
What for? To fight Gas? Hold him out?

>something he should have used to avoid dying to bug unless he WANTED to escape his promise to his wife...
Knowing Goku, I wouldn't put it past him.

>I don't think there has even be consideration of warping to Dende to get healed up for them to go again
This makes me wonder, GMG, is there something that you find particularly appealing about DB, besides maybe the art?

>Not even sure why they can't just lead Gas to Billy who is sure to piss him off and get merc'd instantly by the moving goalpost.
That would be a good solution, yes.

>If you want more on the matter of him being a terrible father, husband, friend, hero, lover, etc., that is doable.
At this point, that is pretty clear to me. But it wouldn't hurt to know more about the matter (to remind people *and hopefully making them see the light*).

>Prince of the alien race raised by a space slum lord? Better Earthling with more humanity than the retarded, brain-damaged MC (man-child, that is).
My sides...

>Filler has the rock incident.
Ah, yes. Pretty funny.

>Super had an elephant step on his hand, which was bad (sold it as painful).
Don't recall this happening. Did it take place in the manga?

>It also had his base take damage from a bullet
...Like with Krillin (though not as severe, I presume)? Was he even caught off-guard?

>Weight-lifting in general is good for mocking DB as a whole.
Being serious for a moment here, is there a way to know how much SS would allow Goku (or someone else) to lift? We know that in canon, Base Goku couldn't lift 40 tons (had someone in GFAQs tell me that it doesn't count because apparently Goku as a teen could move a car or something along the lines, so that apparently makes the latest showing non-canon). Do we know his new limit when using SS?

>A little girl robot saved him from a nazi
Arale?

>Gokeks project to bring down those that make fun their 'hero'...who would later run off with a little brown boy
It's way too easy to shoot down the idea that Goku is a family man... Way, way too easy... To the point that you have to wonder why his fans even defend him in the first place.

>He beats women, too
Oof.

>another animal doing the same was the commie pig
W-what? I can't even...

>Pickle is a child while raising HIS child. Ridiculous.
Very much so.

>NOTE: Seriously, he has WAY too many cases of naivety getting punished
Yeah, I noticed. Though you probably know way more cases than I do.

>Yes, for the Sword Summon (not Sword Sheathe) animation.
Yeah, noticed that the latter didn't have any i-frames.

>To clarify, NOT that he reads 3K pages worth of books. A single book. Not a volume
Wot.

>Humoring him, I asked if these were auto-biographies or something, but he didn't know what that meant.
Excuse me? What the... What?

>Made fun of him by mentioning it to others only to find there were a fair few people around that didn't see anything suspicious about that claim.
Sometimes I wonder just how many people with an aversion to reading relatively large amounts of text exist.

>Few are willing to accept it even after it is made abundantly clear.
I wonder if they even read half of everything you said in those comments.

>something seemingly not using up his ki/stamina and ignoring PL differences
Would have been neat if he used this against SPC.

>Gero's ultimate lifeform would have looked awful silly killing himself with his own attack for the finale *what a climax that would make for with TEN kill stealing effortlessly*
Indeed. But it's Tien, so we can have none of it.

>AT doesn't hate the "spots". That would be the animators of Toei.
Noted. Thanks for the correction.

>I ever go over the details of RoSaT's temperature range, gravity, air quality, size of the space, etc.?
Don't think so, and I have also forgotten about them (just the details, I do know about everything you mentioned).

>Based on what we've seen Tien do and his PL, there is ZERO excuse for this. He was just being written out.
Figured that it wasn't something about him not being capable to endure it (realistically).

>Chiaotzu should actually be stronger than Chestnut, too.
That right? Then again, it does make sense.

>The Tri-Beam thing falls apart in canon. It only plays off how it is depicted in secondary continuity (anime).
Oh, I see.

>There is, however, no reason to think the fusion hax potential with multi-form can't work (no safeguards are in place to stop it).
Good to know that it is a possibility, at the very least.

>Have I ever gone over how FSF with Bejita could play out in FighterZ?
Pretty sure no.

>Of course, I surpass him now, but there is still more to learn (some details to correct, even).
Aside from reminding people, do you plan to save those findings?

>YYH?
Yeah.

>perhaps had there been a GoW proper general I'd have a reason to help there
Please tell me there isn't a nuGoW 'general'.

>What had me searching for Tardku
Boredom, just curious about what would turn up. I had a feeling that you would be involved with at least one of the results I was about to see (and technically I was correct). Also, the word itself amuses me, even more than I would like to admit.

>Were there other keywords entered?
Nope. Just "Tardku" (without quotes, of course).

>NOTE: Notice these sub-humans expose themselves by showing they frequent the places they talk bad about (GFAQs, Reddit, etc.) enough to encounter my REMINDERS
And apparently someone on Reddit made a post about you, SBK, Hotel, and Lithius.

>until told the popular stance shifted as with turning against GT
That is pretty accurate. A bit too accurate, even.

>Having already explored the concept of 'hiding behind other characters', you can find it at DBG pretty readily even in my topic.
Ah, yeah, that's right. Saw your replies towards other people, such as with Krillin.

>I used an account there, so you can actually just see what I did to change the article. I prefer it that way.
Oh, I wasn't doubting your word on the matter. Don't worry.

>This fellow, yes
I am speechless.

>JaG should cover such things in time.
Ever thought about helping him, or do you think he can handle it just fine by himself?

>Not as convincing as having accompanying visual proof. Hits harder and is better for the wiki format. Doesn't look as legit without citations.
Fair point.

>An unreasonable request of the adherents of TARDku.
Very true.

>They would certainly not accept it. Might even challenge you to back up that stance.
Copium would get in the way of acceptance, even if I brought all the evidence in the world to prove it. So besides annoying them, I'd likely gain nothing from it.

>One thing to keep in mind is that is usually only takes around 20% to no-sell, one-shot and blitz a fool.
Provided that you want to go for the kill instead of fooling around, I presume.

>This is Gokek that is more than double the Vegeta who used FF.
Just for the sake of having all the pieces to get the whole picture (and to back my statements up with solid evidence), do we know for sure that Goku was twice as strong as Vegeta?

>One was caught off-guard. The other was taking it head-on intentionally.
Though this alone should give me the edge.

>That it FAILED to kill him there is a SHAME to its credit, not actually a good luck
Very good point.

>let alone favorable like with FF letting someone severely outclassed in the moment punch above his weight *wasn't even like he went Grade 3 to output power beyond Trunks as he could have done to make Spots shit bricks more than he already had and decide to NOT take that on at all*
Of course, Vegeta had Grade 3, but chose not to use it. This is also great to keep in mind.

>nearly getting killed by something that shouldn't even pose a threat to Frieza's first form
Like you said, awful.

>He would want it reasoned out. Shall I help you?
Of course.

>Evil has to deal with it (maybe having a harder time, but I've seen no evidence of that converse being the case).
That evidence likely doesn't exist, but I wouldn't be surprised if you found something.

>Questions, comments, concerns, etc. being the fat on the bones, but the meat would be the strategies employed, tactics to achieve them, what worked out, what didn't, etc.
Noted. So, should I note stuff that failed at first, and (obviously) what ended up working in the end?

>You might take a gander at how I do it for further clarification (along with how my repeat encounters let alone runs have me just using "..." or generalizations like 'OS spam', 'grab rape', etc.).
Could you provide a link to one of your (or someone else's) run coverage (working with a run skeleton, evidently) to see how it's done? I suppose that I could copy and paste said skeleton from the link you'd give me.

But going from memory alone (based on quick glances), could you tell me if something like this is fine?

-Aegean Sea

-1st encounter
360 Toss spam.

-1st Hydra fight
Used s,t,s,s... to deal damage, blocked whenever it was about to bite.

------

-Net
Used square to kill a group of enemies directly above me. Climbed a bit more and grabbed one soldier, which killed another in the process.

Of course, pretty sure there are names other than '1st encounter' in a run skeleton, this is just a rough example. I'm being vague on purpose, but I don't plan to do that in the proper coverage.

>No need to type more than necessary for the unworthy.
The only way I can see myself typing "..." is when doing a puzzle, or a relatively simple platforming bit (not sure if you'd even want to know if I died X amount of times to the latter). Otherwise, as far as combat goes, I want to be as detailed as possible to give you a clear picture of what I did.

Also, before I forget, what does 'GK:PAIN' mean? Something above PAIN?

>Suits me either way.
Suppose I should be ready to start soon enough. Just want more info about how run skeletons work exactly.

Oh, and since we're at it, let's make sure I got all of what NUR+ entails:

-Very Hard (obviously).
-No HP upgrades.
-No MP upgrades.
-Upgrading anything (BoC, Artemis, spells) is not allowed.
-Artemis is not allowed (except for abusing i-frames via Sword Summon).
-Opening chests is not allowed. Regaining health and magic can only be done via enemies (and probably objects).
-Usage of magic is allowed.

Did I miss anything?

>which is why I restart when not doing well enough
Guess I should start getting used to this.

>I'd be amused to see it weaponized for a 'RotG ONLY' run, mind you.
I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been done (unless it requires some sort of cheat to get 'infinite' RotG).

>You can be invincible in GoWIII via a bug Waffles used.
I see, so it's not something present in GoW1.

>When the time comes for more, we'll cross that bridge.
For sure.

>Xristos Zimnas on YT.
Thanks, I found him. Seems like he adds 'no damage' on top of NUR/PAIN, huh? Also seems like he's uploading GoW1 content even to this day. Is it safe for me to assume that he's one of the best GoW players around?

>My playlists can help with that (aside from the Glitch FAQs).
Actually, your playlist is what I have been using to watch the glitches/exploit videos. I haven't seen all of the playlist, just a couple of them. Same for Akheon's FAQ.

>Can compare and contrast with Zim's showing.
Will do.

>Often a travesty. Hopefully he was competent.
Huh? I thought he was one of the good players, based on what I heard about him. Watched his CotG playlist to see how he approached it, and to see if I'd learn anything from it. And I did learn a few things from it.

>He also did partial coverage of Artemis PAIN (Zim has a fuller run showing).
Noted. Will watch both of their content when the time comes.

>Bleh. Ideally exploiting the best ways to build it with the meta mentality so despised by /cgg/ers.
Good point, I did hear that the ranking system is very exploitable. But I suppose that getting first-hand experience to see just how exploitable it is for myself wouldn't hurt.

>NUR or higher
Yes, I will attempt this as well. Are there defined rules for runs higher than standard No Upgrade (as in, the equivalent of NUR+, or PAIN)?

>Funnier to avoid style during challenge runs while showing efficient strats for dps killing things as such (high blasphemy to some).
Yeah, I don't plan to get into the cuhrayzee mindset with this or future games (though I'd be lying if I said I was eager to try DMC4 *not like I could do so at the moment, or else I'd probably try GoW3 after finishing GoW2*). Which is indeed pretty blasphemous for some fans, since juggling sandbags is apparently how the game is meant to be played each time you boot the game.

^ Nevermind, I found two run coverages (coincidentally, Lithius' and Hotel's) which gives me a good idea on how to use the format.

If I can get some things sorted out, I think I can start next week. I'll be sure to post the link to the topic to let you know.

Opted to make a https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/2000113-dragon-ball-general/80041003?jumpto=2#2 to rub salt into the wounds of Gokeks, but burned most of my time to continue where I'd left off earlier doing that GoW1 testing (which went pretty well with some decent findings *disappointing as one reality was*).

No major update with the chapter that continues to confirm the wish (Gokeks still hoping for damage control 'clarification').  Copium going beyond that includes preying upon the vague wording to say all sorts of shit like how it was JUST not dying to the destruction of the planet even though their beloved Herms clarified on the Viz translation to say it was to let him thrive...by being healthy and strong going into ADULTHOOD, which a baby is not (nor was he at the start of DB).  I basically cover it in my topic with a link to the old post, but there are a few cases to consider.

In actual canon, he is 11-12 at the start of DB and ~20 just before Z.  Minus adds 3 years to his starting age (which Super works from).  This creates two important differences.  Beyond those tracks, we need to know how old is an 'adult' where the dragon is concerned (ignoring the possibility his inability to mentally mature keeps it going forever *mostly trolling them with this talk, but you never know with AT who took the time to again say Piccolo is his favorite, he's more respected by the Gohan household than Goku and other shit that pisses Gokeks off*).

Starting points set aside, we need that end point.  15yo is Edo standards for males.  I'm only humoring that as a meme (to see the earliest stop time, which would be possibly just 3 years into the story if that were so).  In the modern age it has always been 20 for Japan, which takes us to AFTER Pickle Jr. jobbed, but before Raditz turns up to get killed alongside his fellow beneficiary.  How fun.  Only as of this year (which is when this new info was given, but a lot of the writing wouldn't have considered *if even this stuff does*) is it so that 18 is an adult in Japan (able to vote and everything as a full adult where before it was just legal to have sex earlier).

Like noted, there is case 0 (the cope of Gokeks about it being over before he even got to Earth) and case 7 (it never stopped), but the former doesn't require dwelling and the latter is too much work (though it would be fun to see EVERY instance listed to piss them off).  GT, movies and other shit included just to make it more obnoxious.  Case 1-3 will work from canon (I'll try to settle on 11 or 12 as the starting age rather than making three tracks going from 6 to 9 real  stop points *could be generous and just go with 12 despite us not knowing the exact month of most events*).  Stop point 1 is 15, sp2 is 18 and sp3 is 20.  Case 1 would be 3 years, Case 2 would be 6 years and Case 3 is 8 years into the story.  Case 4...if he was 15 (not 14) upon first meeting it would only be the stuff with the ravine and Grandpa Gohan (ignoring monsters, wildlife, starvation, sickness, etc.).  Just slightly more than Case 0.  Not even a year.  Case 5 would be 3 years.  Case 7 would be 5 years.

I'll be saving all that talk for AFTER I go through up to ~ch198 or so to reach the conclusion of DB as a reasonable stopping point in this study.  All I did so far was up to after the first Pilaf encounter (left off at ch.24), but I think I had 17 cases (could probably attribute more *still not including fateful meetings, other people made to job, etc.* to the wish, but no need to overkill even with just the 'got saved' stuff).  I'm not sure I'm going to be their favorite poster at this rate, you know?  Breaks my heart.  Still, it is done for them.  Not to them.  I'm a giver, you know?  I'm in the business of it.  Business is good.

>2-0 cases
Not sure when I'll get around to further updates with that wiki article (even just the images as I find it a bother to learn their system).  It has fallen out of favor with that community, anyway.  Might just be a waste of effort.  Still waiting on JaG, so I should probably REMIND him as he himself requests to be.  **does that** The goofs keep fucking themselves over with their buffoonery, so they got the general split with many of them frequently forced into a board for banned people.  Idiocy.  Avatarfags, Namefags, spam, off-topic, etc. really shit the place up even setting aside the usual issue with Gokeks denying reality, falseflagging, replying to themselves, samefagging, etc.  That's business as usual, regrettably.

>neglect him
Looking that way (maybe even for Fridge *again*).  Last chapter had Gokek doing a bunch of nothing and Geets got the first real blow on Gas.  Of course, it would be bizarre if they didn't betray our prince to give another the final blow after his shine.  Gokek doing it alone?  Never going to happen.  DB just doesn't see fit to do that.  Fusion is improbable though an obvious win.  Seems we're keeping outsiders out of this.  You would think Granola would be the third wheel in this tricycle of tardation.  3v1 isn't super likely (choreography would likely be beyond Toyo's tracer abilities).  Not for long, anyway.  I'd be surprised if he didn't factor in the defeat of Gas (who is STILL not looking like the final fight of this section not likely to end without Elec getting amped, too).  We'll see.  Still need to see what the deal is with 73.

>what for
Gokek felt Whis could handle Gas if he tried something stupid, but just assumed his enemies couldn't breath in space nor sense that far away.  The latter was correct (stopping warping), but the angel was happy to point the villain in the right direction for high speed flying.  The multi-warp (should have used this against Cell, Gokeks) was meant to strand their opponent so they could regroup.  Effectively a BFR (Battle Field Removal) attempt to win the encounter, which would be too smart for DB (like how sealing beyond flashbacks just fails).  Can't beat 'em with TKO, KO, etc.?  Just send them away (Samurai Jack jobbed to this strat...until he didn't *much later returning from the future to continue where they left off in that instant*).  Lots of salt can come of such a means (goes without saying).

Imagine had Geets used spirit control mastery (allowing for him to learn other techniques like multiplication seen by Tien in canon) to leave a clone of himself at a far away point (or a series of them if not working others) to during 3-0 to just IT the Carrot on contact (if not baiting from place to place) all the way to the endpoint (furthest location beyond their sensory abilities regarding the starting point or connecting waypoints even).  Imagine him dispelling the clone(s) to strand the idiot.  He wins the encounter in a way that is really underhanded.  His foe cannot continue their battle like this owing to the actions of the victor.  Lots of dirty strats are available, but don't get used.  This is just one of them (that Toyo had TARDku employ against Gas only to fail as no more than a brief pause in the action versus a full stop for a good enough duration to call a loss *that is itself a vague thing, mind you*).

A variant of this would be leaving a clone with an air supply (device, magic, technique or whatever aid) if not murder (killing waypoints as he goes) of an exploitable party...to strand him in space so he can suffocate (provided the location was chosen for distance from all things he can sense and warp to *probably not doable in the North quadrant/galaxy of their universe as somehow King Kai always seems to get sensed despite being sub-Nappa across the divide Hell should be in the way of*).  Variant of that would be to kill King Kai after warping to him (leaving JOBalot behind), but we're getting into more unlikely territory (needs to feel his ki signature and be willing to pull such stunts).  Rather than having JOBku learn ECW, it should have been Geets.  Then he can just seal Kakajobber.  Kekarot could also be screwed with RO in a Budokai (ECW can help there, too).

I'm unclear how the Budokai or even other tournaments with RO would rule on a certain other strat.  If using others to warp your foe outside the stage and make them touch out of bounds while holding them (but they touch first *if not releasing early*)...would that be fine?  What of clones?  If ANY part of you is outside the ring do you lose?  I presume a severed limb would NOT count (tails come to mind).  YOU are still in the ring.  If just a clone touches out of bounds it gets tough.  I can see the ToP allowing the fighter to continue so long as some portion of them is in-bounds (though that clone might not be allowed to rejoin).  Budokai could easily go the other way to screw the finesse (since 'our hero' isn't using it *opposite ruling otherwise*).  If Bejita-sama were to put a clone of him on the floor beyond, then warp to himself (provided that is a thing to begin with) while holding his foe before making him touch grass...seems like a win to be denied by a ref (and a furry).  Could 'cheat' with a miniature (not just Bulma tech for actual cheating, but the technique from Spirit Training to change size *should have learned that so he could SNOWBALL his vassal for big 3-0*) hidden in the grass and warping to that unseen, I suppose.

>something appealing beyond art
I'm fond of some of representation of power in this fantasy setting.  Energy from the body and basic martial arts.  Sometimes with the violence and even gore I fancy (rarer in the anime).  The VA work and music along with Koyama's efforts to add depth help on the story front (emotional depth).  Were it JUST the manga, it would be a harder sell.  I grew up with Z's original TV run (while early on looking way ahead to JP airings, GT, games, movies, etc.).  Nostalgia, first anime, etc. are factors.  Vegeta in particular suits my sensibilities (even post-rez has pros to go with his cons).  The writing of AT can be accidentally funny (rarely intentionally *schadenfreude set aside*).  Really, the art isn't that great in the source (perfectly fine, but nothing incredible as a style *good for what it is going for*).

It peaks for the tone I prefer by perhaps Namek, really.  AT just kept getting lazier.  Sometimes the anime artists are super terrible, but some helped maintain a style and quality left behind by AT (giving moments where Buu Saga looked great).  The power scaling doesn't get into more abstract levels in canon, which also suits me (comics go way too far *to the point of silly bullshit talk like overpowering time, ideas, etc.*).  Also helps that early DB had PLs for a more concrete value (along with some modifiers) for how people might stack up.  Some hate this being a factor, but I'm the opposite.  While it is bad if it is always about this for determining the winner (still not accurate, but there is cause for the belief), I don't mind when it just comes down to that all that much.  Outsmarting is great, but I can respect overwhelming might (don't always have to be clever, skillful, lucky, etc.).

Yes, vulgar displays of strength can be pleasing along with flashy feats of destruction to the environment.  Such things can elevate more basic exchanges (selling the tale of how incredible the action is even when the author is not able to mind physics properly to accurately show what that would really entail).  It appeals to me as well the notion of rage empowerment (taken to an extreme).  DB does a fair bit of this.  I have the opposite feeling about 'calmness' as a fuel for success in my entertainment.  Restraint over unleashing...bores me.  UI was never going to appeal as such.  KK doesn't run off anger, but the strain put on the body helps make up for that.  SS is initially linked to such emotion.  But a lot of it is just Vegeta in the end (Gohan had his moments).

>pretty clear
>more wouldn't hurt
Perhaps another time (in the interest of it), then.

>my sides
Seriously.  Geets is older.  He would have had 5 years to get some notion of his people's culture aside from hearing of it from Nappa (and others).  Knew a good deal for a glorified toddler regarding first-hand experience, wouldn't you say?  False Moon technique, zenkai, Oozaru mastery, their biology (aging, tail regen, hair growth, etc.) and so on.  Aside from briefly being raised by his pops (assuredly not a great person), he would go on to be an orphan serving under the 'emperor' (terrible person) sent on missions to genocide worlds for selling.  Would have had two decades of that given his unusual power and prowess would see him put to work pretty much immediately (if not already on such missions with his dad *already in their culture to have a go though not so much the profit angle*).

Meanwhile, our hero is raised by a drunk old pervert in the woods.  He is told to be nice to girls (fucks this up a lot), not to hit drunks (kept his word there) and to never look at the full moon (messed that up twice before the start of DB).  This 'good' influence (better objectively, mind you) gives way to isolation for some number of years before meeting Bulma who takes him on the adventure where he meets other influencers (ignoring the brain-damage taking his savagery out *not really about memories considering his age even with Minus though Super pretends recalling the day he was sent away is important*).  Sure they have faults, but many are pretty positive overall (a minor deity or so doesn't hurt).  He had decades of head start on learning the ways of the world (what is good, right, etc.) yet this is what we get.  Laughable.  Innocence born of ignorance.  Too dumb to be evil (on purpose).  Good thing lies, murder, etc. don't make you 'evil' in DB's universe, eh?

>pretty funny
In canon Boss Carrot's weak minions were beating Gokek to death when Bulma was held hostage (Puar and Yamcha had to make the save by getting her free *then he still needed to use Rice Senior's magical stick*).  They gave him a CANON black eye.  Something worth pointing out if Carrot Cult gets out of pocket talking about shit like Super giving Vegeta a black eye from Ayy the Grey in the ToP.  Compare canon to non-canon.  Foes way below you to one way above you.  They would probably move on to Zammy (still not canon) damaging some teeth.  I forget if the protagonist lost any only to get them back from healing.  I know it has happened to someone in canon (Videl would be one case).  Yamcha's lost tooth mysteriously just returns one day.  Lots of joking about arm holding attributed to 18 (with lots of non-canon and filler cases to keep up the meme) against ol' Geeter.  He's hardly the only person to do that pose (Rice Junior does it after Cell), but the joke is being tired and hurt (not necessarily struck in the limb again)...and just holding that limb.  Something I'll eventually look into further as with ki barrages, jobber pose (Bruce Lee), etc.

NOTE: Blue was going to kill Chestnut with a rock, by the way.  Super sees Moro-73 folded under a rock falling with the force...of gravity (not even high enough to reach terminal velocity nor of some insane material).  Awful.

>don't recall this
My mistake.  Non-canon material is what it is.  It was Z filler.  FPSS jobbed to having his hand stepped on (gag moment that makes it look like that amount of weight to someone so strong would hurt him).  This during the wait for the Cell Games.  Even I'm rusty on my filler (and other non-canon material, really).  If I knew it better, I'd happily use it against the imbecile's advocates using JaG (citing such moments).

>caught off guard
No.  He just blocked with his forearm (post-SSG 'absorbing') to take a scratch.  In the filler from earlier he catches a bullet (reminding AT to have Gohan do that in canon).  In DB, Roshi caught a bunch of bullets.  Amazing that Super had evading a slap from Bulma as a feat (even though canon had her keeping up with them despite a PL5 after the first Budokai, which implies a much higher PL *gag though it is*) and precursor to UI.  The same Chestnut slacker that bleed from a bullet (even OG did better) was putting on a show with Gokek moments later.  Hmmm, maybe this Super filler was before BoG (and SSG).  Doesn't matter much.  He still had a scratch with red (blood) while saying it hurt.  Even getting tagged was ridiculous no matter how off-guard he was shy of being unconscious.

NOTE: The times he is misdirected, made to look naive in combat or just 'caught out' are MANY, so it is a safe bet.  Another thing (along with zenkai) I need to make notes of in yet another pass through canon alone.  I'll never be done with studies.

>is there a way
No.  Not at all.  There is no canon multiplier and multipliers aren't reliable for 1:1 stat changes.  SS depictions of power escalation vary with plot.  The first time is what the guides go with (x50) and GT can state as its reality (their own universe, so all is fair even if it makes no sense).  After that, I don't get the impression foes are ever that much stronger than their base.  Too often we saw small gaps (way below 20%) lead to convincing beatings.  People on the level of base (much less way below it) factoring AT ALL is absurd talk when SS1 makes such a difference.  The same guides make up the x2 over SS1 talk for SS2 and x4 over even that for SS3 (despite Buu's meter making it look more like less than x2 over SS2).  He went from not really able to do one feat of strength to being able to easily do it in SS1, but it doesn't need to be anywhere near x50 for that instance.  It is really silly in GT when a building falls on SS4 Gokek (should be x4K stronger than normal where his base was already elevated to his Buu Saga SS3...that is x400 of his old base *it gets dumb fast talking about this*) only for him to struggle holding the small skyscraper of normal materials in regular gravity up (also he supported it by the window panes *had to be made of a super version of the canon 'shatterproof glass' that Pilaf had*).

>doesn't count beca-
Tell them to cope.  AT can't write for shit.  He's a gag manga guy.  It is weird to him you care enough to analyze his work seriously.  His (probably) 12 year old self did lift a car.  Even if a small one and downplaying it, this should be over a ton.  You would need a lightweight material (typical of comics) to explain it away when the average is 1.4 (not 1.0).  He didn't get 40 times stronger by the point of FPSS?  This scene was from canon, by the way.  It should be shortly before Buu Saga as it wasn't told via flashback.  The same Goku that would go job for 0-2.  THAT individual wasn't strong enough in base to lift 40 tons?  Super has Basegeta toss aside some building portion (like the GT case) that would be 20K+.  Casually.  This during the Moro arc.  Then again, the metal man was just over 1K (tons), yet SS Bejita couldn't lift him at all.  Isn't this fun?

>new limit
It is never consistent.  That is part of why it will always be something to ridicule the franchise for.

>Arale
The one and the only.  The first mention of her place in DB was a mini-Toribot hanging on a tree during the first 'saga' (first few chapters, really).  He appears at least one other time in canon for a gag panel (breaking the fourth wall with talk to his weak editors in Buu Saga).

>why they defend him
Often they are self-inserters with their own values projected onto him (all about his familia).  He needs to be their ideal.  The material they prefer tends to pander to this, so that is their 'truth' (indulgence over honesty).  Goku is asexual?  I'm not, so he can't be.  He has gay tendencies and goes in drag?  Just for laughs.  Never mind the bridal kidnapping of Uub.  He has never blushed, had a nosebleed or otherwise shown interest in females (even mistaking a short, fat black farmer for a pretty girl)?  But I like pretty girls, so he does, too.  And they like him too!  Look at all this filler shit where girls are into him or at least say he is handsome or something.  Look at it, please.  Koyoma-sensei's canon final take (bullshit) has Bulma still going on about how she definitely pines for him (before AT shits all over that).

Much of the issues with that fanbase is just the usual shit with MC dickriders, but this is with one that is pretty shit (not just in writing, but has a lot of undesirable qualities like being a retard *they're not retarded, so he cannot be...at least not in a fight, right*).  These people tend to want to go with the 'winner', but DB isn't super kind to the one getting the 'final blow' (biggest chunk of the glory pie) most of the time.  It is the easiest path in fiction (favored by the vast majority).  Why back a side-character when your favorite can be the one that tends to get the most development, be praised by everyone, do all the things that matter, etc.?  Just that in DB things aren't so peachy.  That non-canon material helps obscure the truth just makes all this worse (harder to help them know the truth *if willing to even care as anime-only is a religion for those who refuse to read beyond maybe subs*).

>oof
That's what she said.  Lauch, Mai, Chi-Chi, etc.  What a brute.

>can't even
That's right.  Cosby'd his dumb ass.  Date rape drugged him for the KO.  Not even a huge dose or some meds.  Regular shit did the trick just fine.  Mai's gas wasn't anything special, either.  Why should the space Rona be different?  Again, Chestnut tanked it without meds.  Gokek is pathetic.  An immunelet bitch that needs vitamins.

>way more cases of it
And how.  Dozens with combat alone.

>wot
Yeah, must be legendary binding.  Obviously no such book exists.  Let alone enough to reach each day (even if one had the ability to memorize with page flips AND process them).

>excuse me
You're excused.

>how many
The bulk of people online where text is the only way to go?  Don't want to read beyond a 'tweet'.  As in one.  It's bad out there.

>read half
Likely not.  Understand?  Almost certainly not.  Accepted what was understood?  You already know.

>used against SPC
If not a kill, it would put him in a bad way (setting up a kill).  Seems good to me.

>RoSaT details
It is the size of their Earth (whatever that is *their moon is tiny as shown with the curvature when visited with Boss Rabbit*) presumably from the height it aligns with on the tower (so more surface than the actual Earth).  Unclear.  Gravity is just x10 (a meme number as Geets was using x150 before this *filler has 300 and I think even 500**).  Same as King Kai's, Pui Pui's planet, Planet Vegeta, etc.  Temperature range is -40 to 120F (such a factor had not previously been used as a gimmick, at least).  Air is a quarter that of the surface by implication (would expect it to not be talking about the Lookout *where Bulma nor anyone else has ever complained yet even Korin's below is supposed to tire you out faster as part of training like being in high mountains*).  AT writing at work here.  Super removes the time limit inside that was random and bullshit to begin with.

>that right
He kept training with Tien throughout ALL of this while Chestnut didn't do a thing since the start of the Androids.  For a feat, while 17 apparently died to Genocide Attack, Chiaotzu was able to narrowly evade it.  Gives the impression he is beyond 17 who mogs 18 who absolutely shits on 20 who beats 19 who should fuck up Frieza who is way beyond the failed monk.  He gets no shine, but that feat carries (along with the logic involved *would take negative fanon to downplay him*).

>falls part
Even if you can't fire through each hand, you can still work multi-arms (even if just 4 rather than 6 for a proper Asura) to grapple enemies and still have two hands free for a full Tri-Beam (instead of needing to grip with one arm and do the improvised one-armed shot done to Nappa).

>how FSF could play out
A third of the cast is open to it.  Were this Budokai, you could have blows landed (even ki attacks as evidenced by Planet Moro) take from the ki gauge and even make fusion timers run out (aside from reversing transformations for Cell, Buu, etc.).  FighterZ doesn't leave room for form reversion, so a different penalty is needed.  We also (unless doing the rare 1v1) are in a team anime fighter (3v3), so the bar itself is shared between all fighters.  Can't be helped.  The penalty for using someone with a bad match-up should AT LEAST be that when taking damage (even chip) from BLUEgeta they loss some amount of ki meter.  Things like 21's absorbed abilities?  Lost upon taking a hit.  Life gain from consuming someone?  Should be lost upon taking a hit.  Wishes would not be countered by this (balls still reign).

Would FSF be a passive, special move (buffed state for a duration), heavy (meter burning) thing or what?  Passive is obviously the reality of things, but they might try to downplay him.  Just think of how many people get powered from sources not themselves in FighterZ.  Absorbing people, fusing, merging, etc. puts you in a bad place.  Pickle?  Eats shit (double merged).  Arguably BLUEku should eat shit thanks to not earning god ki (handholding ritual carry involved others putting their good ki in him).  Even Majin Buu (fatty) as even if we're pretending he is Mr. Buu he still has GSK inside him (runs off Super logic where that is still true).  Supes?  Open to it, too.  Kid Buu is the only version safe from this in canon, but Super ruins it for him (saying he had god ki from GSK after the split).  Again, about one-third of the roster is open season.  Moves like Spirit Bomb?  Should be able to beat them with a simple ki attack, really (just send the ki back *at best they get refunded with bar*).

Even without going over ALL the cases (unless you want to), you can see how this would make the Super Cyan Prince pretty hated even before gaining UE, IT, GBF, etc.  But fuck it.  I've continued the message since where I left off before.  I can do a good bit of it here and now.  Let's have a gander at the list then, shall we?  Alphabetical order:

1. Adult Gohan - Mystic, but the power is his own (and beyond *somehow*), so he should be immune.

2. Android 16  - Robot.  Power source is mechanical.  Not even ki.  Inelligible.  Really, IT should NOT work against him (or the cyborgs), but it fucking does anyway because match-up specifics that screw the lead are not okay.

3. Android 17 - Cyborg.  The core is mechanic.  They don't have ki per se.

4. Android 18 - Same.

5. Android 21 - Cyborg/Majin.  Only when taking HP from foes (candy) or copying moves would she take bonus damage (and lose the things gained to ruin those tools).

6. Android 21 (Lab Coat) - Cyborg.  Banned in tournies.  Ignoring this, I forget her moveset, but if she copies moves via absorbing their ki...You already know.

7. Bardock - Just a guy.  None of his moves use power foreign to him (belonging to others).

8. Beerus - GoD.  His power is his own.  Doesn't use anything from a power source that isn't his.  It would be a big stretch and require high level FSF to somehow pull a stunt like converting the energy of Hakai (antimatter behavior in destruction of matter) from an explosion to whatever as a means to negate the effects of the attack (I forget if the ki of worlds could be returned like that of living things using the technique).

9. Broly - LSS.  State pulls in ki from surroundings (before releasing overflow *not in the game*).  That is a clear target for FSF.

10. Broly (DBS) - Ikari is just his own power swelling.  Not valid.

11. Captain Ginyu - He would be fine up until switching bodies.  Someone in his body or him in their bodies?  That becomes a valid target and should probably also see the places switched back, actually.  Pretty well jacks up his signature.

12. Cell - He's a character with others absorbed (lots and lots of them, actually).  Them not being outside his body apparently doesn't matter, so he's wide open to being shit on horrifically.

13. Cooler - Fights with his own power.

14. Frieza - Calls for back-up (like some others), but doesn't run afoul of the tech we're focused on.

15. Fused Zamasu - Fusion.  He's fucked.

16. Goku - SKW is his potential.  KK is his power magnified.  SB, however, is NOT his power.  That is the only opening for this case.

17. Goku Black - He's another Ginyu, but he's stuck in the body, so he just has to keep being force-fed doo-doo butter.

18. Goku (GT) - His own power saved the SB as before.

19. Gotenks - SS3 allowed to get away with murder (on a fusion with a timer).  Anyway, obviously jobs.

20. Hit - Not applicable.

21. Janemba - An oni jannie that got covered in the dark souls of others.  He is a composite being, so wide open.

22. Jiren - Ayy the gray is his own man.

23. Kefla - Fusion.

24. Kid Buu - Super giving him god ki fucks over the 'Pure' one who would be immune otherwise.  If the games were accurate, you couldn't tire him out without being a magical entity to begin with.

25. Krillin - Guru's headpat was his power being brought out.  He's not on the list.

26. Majin Buu - Be it Mister, Good or Fat, it doesn't matter.  He's got GSK at the very least inside him.  Also, he has that candy devouring thing going on (technique to undo).

27. Master Roshi - Just an old guy.  The immortality isn't some power put within him to be stripped.  Immune.

28. Nappa - His own abilities.  Planting Saibamen doesn't change this.

29. Piccolo - Doubled merged.  Quite fucked.

30. SS4 Gogeta - Fu-sion-HA! HA!

31. Super Baby 2 - Foreign entity in the body of another.  Open to being expelled.  Revenge Death Ball is the evil ki of his subjects.  It is just another SB.  This dude gets shat on super hard.

32. SSB Gogeta - Fusion and part of him got god ki unnaturally (from the power of others).

33. SSB Goku - SSG from the handout might be coming back to haunt him here.

34. SSB Vegeta - O'natural.

35. SSB Vegetto - Earrings again.

36. SS Goku - Still just SKW.

37. SS Vegeta - Even were this Majin (it isn't), that is still just your own power (from evil).

38. Teen Gohan - Fondled by Guru, but that's legit.  Some for tard rage.

39. Tien - His clones could, in theory, be punished (but then the game already doesn't make them all open to damage in a way that makes the whole suffer way worse for getting caught).  It is HIS power, but it leaves his own body.  It would forcibly be ending the technique even before pounding them to a pulp as such.

40. Trunks - Like pops, he is going it alone. No Spirit Sword antics in this entry.  Not for gameplay.

41. Videl - Regular ass person.

NOTE: A shame Turles (another Goku some might say) isn't in.  He would job to it after consuming the fruit.  Omega?  Syn having the others in him sets him up for this.  Super 17?  Fused being.  Fighter Z 2 will have a lot of people on the chopping block in the unlikely case we get FSF adapted (and not ignored *even a critical downplay beats a blank as with limiting his IT capability while still recognizing he has it*).

>save findings
I probably won't beyond what is left online (no more preserved than his via a website subject to being lost like anything else).

>YYH
How goes the reading, then?  I forget what all you've watched (if not all of it).

>Nu-GoW general
That that I'm aware of for /v/, but /vg/ likely has some such faggotry.

>had a feeling results would involve me
Just as a Gokek found the case to be (while trying to doxx me with internet screen handles *dumb*).  Not sure how he thought this a win (nor even the duration of how long I've been helping people to learn about this franchise they are themselves big fans of).

>amuses you
Yes, it and Gokek capture his essence best.

>someone made a tribute
About a decade late, but yes.  They did that (with the hopes of it being found, getting their wish and then avoiding us).  I'm to be faulted for turning up on occasion to shit on the retards that don't know DB at some location not approved of?  For being hated by these people and antagonizing them?  Almost a decade among them with almost no karma.  Yeah, I'm a Redditor alright.  You can just tell I'm one of the boys with how I blend right in (posting style, views and all).  Gokeks just aren't too bright (like their favorite retard).  One of them even brought of Kanz, which I thought strange.  I'd ask who he thinks I am there, but they would just flag the post as Off-Topic and deny doing so without engaging while instead accusing of that which they have themselves done.  All very Khazarian, really.

>too accurate
It is ALWAYS this way, friend.  This is the autism of the casual fan.  They just mindlessly accept whatever filth comes next.

>such as with Chestnut
Yes, I'm ready to fight any and all comers.  Be it the turbo midge, the 5cm lizard, the bug, the town toaster or whomever they wish to pit against the prince.  I'm well versed in turning even unfavorable match-ups my way (their use of Super works against them, really).  Still, I prefer they be kept on task (Gokek should be the one getting shit on first and foremost *and always*).  Occasionally one has to help the kids to know their shield of choice has...holes.

They'll attempt to treat 2-0 as a meme, then just say their guy is that over Bejita (anonymously they're more bold with just sticking with Gokek and shutting out the objective truths from canon).  I helpfully correct the record.  You no doubt saw some of my assistance rendered for the failed monk (OHKO, 1-1, all the shameful stuff on Namek *hiding, fleeing, surrenderin, etc.*, being a zenkai bitch, and still being terrified of the prince *even his wife* to the point he goes along with dumb shit just to have a common enemy *among other things like the ki disc he's so proud of...or ki barrage coverage).

I've done it more than a few times with the others, but I don't have images readily made for everyone (maybe some panels with filenames *maybe even funny edits*, but not a full presentation/compilation).  It is their stupidity that digs the hole deeper.  As they go off-road they force me to review the tapes and find even more material to use against them.  Using Cueball's sex doll to hide behind?  Saying Chromedome's blow-up bride as a woman is undefeated against Geets and he lost to a woman?  Easily countered.

Took out the guy that just absorbed her stronger brother causing her to question (dumbly) if he was just fucking with her in their fight (16 reminds that this is dumb and he would not put her over on purpose).  Then makes an alliance with the dude against his own allies for his jollies.  Makes an anal suppository out of her.  Practically shoves her up the ass of Semi.  She gets anal VORE'd while KEKlin does NOTHING at all in canon.  Koyama tries to cover for it, but that shit didn't happen.  That's a Hell of a loss.  And the "woman"?  A cyborg.  Modified to be far beyond normal lifeform power.  What other non-magical, natural entity exists with their power?  None in the universe.  Not in canon.  Their power is beyond the highest deity (though below the 'demon king').

Meanwhile, Gokek has ALSO lost to a girl before.  Not content with getting robbed by Mai (and a furry), he then gets played with a trap knocking him out (regular ass gas).  That's right.  The future wife of the Prince's boy qualified for his hand by way of making the vassal among vassals JOB.  A young woman...a NORMAL human laid him low.  She goes on to almost do it again, by the way (this time with a mech).  Were it not for plot (just lost his tail) they would have taken him out again.  They go on to free King Pickle who births a child that beats Gokek before da kang himself beats his ass (all because of Mai and the rest of the Pilaf Gang).  With Super?  Bulma slapped tears from Goku's ducts.  That happened.  This besides the aforementioned "feat".  Not sure why they're suddenly acting like her slapping is a 'thing'.

NOTE: They had best remember to never pull a TFS and classify Zarbon as a fag or they'll be getting a deep-dicking with talk of Blue.  Same for talk of Black/Zamasu.  It is better they learn to ACCEPT the WILL of AT.  Don't fight it.  Definitely don't try leaving the Yellow Brick Road, little BITCH.  Granddaddy GMG is going to take that as choosing the 'hard way'.

>doubting word
Rather, I was noting it so you can just see version history (knowing the precise changes made).

>speechless
Always beat on Gokek (to fuck up).  Think about this.  Had Puar not been there, OOLONG was present to do the same thing.  He would be 2-0 over 'our hero'.  Had ROSHI not wanted in on the UNDEFEATED against the Man-Child club the flying cat kid would have been 2-0 over him.  Those are facts.

There are those that give TEN trouble owing to Chiaotzu's interference despite the triclops calling him off when NOT caught (nor was he going to be) and being such a good sport he even opted to not just blast him to death with Tri-Beam (warned him to clear out of the ring).  More than that, CHEATERku touched something out of bounds (Roshi) and stole an item (not allowed) to take Solar Flare.  That's right.  He STILL lost, but the ref didn't say shit.  Just like he was letting the bastard get away with it against Giran (costing him the match) and the number one Chunner (who won despite all the bias in favor of the lead).  Punk flagrantly went for the eyes (specifically was told that is an illegal move), stepped out of bounds as an Oozaru, got a late and slow count, was allowed to use a magical aid (once), etc.  They complain about a non-tournament (no rules) situation with being conned, but are deadly quiet about this shit.  Majin?  Unacceptable.  W-what is SKW?  I don't know what you're talking about.  Dead body?  H-He can't help that!  SS3 would win (if it existed yet *it would job*).

>think about helping him
I have been since the beginning (as much as I can *and he'll listen, which is very little as he is a comic fan who doesn't like to read*).

>handle it fine by himself
Clearly not given his immense delay on the continuation of our project.  I've given him the offer to cancel the 'movie' (for now) and just go for the usual shorts (five of them spread out through the rest of the year before combining them lazily like he seems to enjoy doing now).  Still waiting on that reply.

>gain nothing save their annoyance
Sounds like you will have nothing left to want for save a Coke.

>if wanting the kill
Of course.  Takes some serious 'holding back' (Ceru on Kuririn) or incompetence (WEAKu) to accomplish a different outcome.  Had over 33% over Jita yet could avail nothing more than a bit of blood spittle.  Took it to over 77%.  Got him good and mad.  Hit him with a beam fourfold his PL.  Just rode it unguarded and hopped off no worse for wear.  Insane.  And they think SS3 is going to go ANY different after showing how it would last about as long as KK and perform at about the same level?  What lunacy (same things expecting different results).

>know for sure
The Vegeta prior to the second RoSaT dip reacted to Goku putting out 'about' HALF his power before Korin (who was to measure him up against Spots).  Vegeta wasn't looking pleased (and didn't even know it wasn't quite half).  The implication is clear.  This Vegeta is weaker than half of FPSS Gokek yet FF made up all that difference.  Just how AT wrote it (with full power Goku at around half of Perfect Cell *as another measuring stick to mull over*).

>should give an edge
Make note Spots was putting out HALF his power (wanted a good fight from someone before he would kill the world) at the time along with being unguarded (sure he wouldn't fire upon the planet only to loose confidence in the bluff to the point he forgot having seen IT used once before *didn't occur to him this set-up could be a thing*).  We have no way of knowing what he was doing against Geets, but we know he was bracing himself for the attack as a flex and panicked in a way that couldn't be seen by Vegeta (not there to fool anyone).  He was taken by surprise and moved aside (losing an arm).  He felt the need to avoid taking the hit.  Telling.  It is, however, also true he recomposed himself and hammed it up before the regen (that doesn't drain him for no good reason).

>great to keep in mind
Of course, that also makes Vegeta look a little silly.  If he knew he had goaded his foe into TAKING the hit, he needed to make it count.  If going Grade 3 would let him put out MORE power to the point he could widen the attack to get all of him, he should have done that.  Perhaps his control wouldn't have been great enough to avoid bursting the world?  It isn't clarified.

>Nappa v. full Earth involuntary SB
Here's the deal.  Nappa was shown as equal to BASEku before the fight was called.  We know the latter is 'over 8K'.  Even if you just put Nappa at 8K, that's way above the others he was messing with.  Clearly someone was sandbagging (and got his ass beat fore it *even by Gokek for a bit*).  Even while fucking around, he was CLOWNING the others.  Gohan took like two hits and was ready to die.  His angry attack (2.5K or so)?  Deflected with minor numbness.  He just couldn't fight back worth shit.  His increase from what would be a zenkai?  Took him to ~1.5K (which we know thanks to Namek readings).  Prior to that his PL in combat would be over 1K (just less than this other reading).

A nerfed (by his own hand) and slightly injured (blast to the eye and severed tail) Bejita was so weakened he could be somewhat fought head-on by Gohan.  Yeah, that gives the impression he wasn't just halved (would be 9K), he was decimated down to sub-4K (not even half of Nappa).  THIS Vegeta took a halved SB of the case in question.  He was directly hit.  Didn't even get KO'd (nor TKO'd).  Hurt?  Yes.  Drained?  You bet.  Killed and defeated?  Not at all.  Again, the halved SB failed against this Vegeta that a Gohan at 1.5K could just about tango with (better fight than he put on against Nappa).  Really, I'm being fucking generous with this 4K talk.  Even just being 1.8K would be a 20% PL advantage, by the way.  The full version hitting an 8K target?  Not a fucking chance it takes Nappa out.

>found something
For evil being more adversely affected?  No, I don't think there is anything like that to be found.

>see how it is done
With GoW1 or any entry?  GoW:A has a lot of examples in a still open thread.

NOTE: Given I went over the run already, I'll skip some of this talk.

>GK PAIN
General Kratos (challenge costume).  Helps (mostly) nerf us (ignoring collisions and EXP) to help offset the boons of NG+ (while opening up more options *that PAIN mostly shits on*).

>NUR+
Just a composite of NUR and NER.  The latter just pertains to any means (collectibles, gifts, mega chests, etc.) to extend the bars (MP, HP, RP, IP, etc.)  Your meters stay at base units.  One aspect of upgrading focused on.  The former is about the other with using EXP to improve your gear (Power-Ups are not allowed where this run is concerned).  NUR+ combines the two for a truer version of what the run type gets at (working with tools as they start).

>Artemis and chests not allowed
That would be PAIN (adds other conditions).

>hasn't been done
EU lads (possibly other non-NA regions) failed to have another me until Zim came along.  Only they get access to that bit of fun, sadly.  I hate to see that be how it was, but it does explain how I could overlook something like that.  Without it, the struggle to build RotG is so tedious, so real that it becomes a serious CHORE to even gather it much less actually have it for about every encounter (then win with it).  Not even close to realistic for a full run, really.  False OS gave some hope...allowing me to dare dream the case otherwise.  But those hopes were dashed with my testing session.  Like with Wulf's cheat, I am again denied.  It is up to Zim and others with that privilege to enjoy it in my place.

>adds ND
He does seem fond of it.

>one of the best
The current best.

>thought he was one of the good players
Shin is a high skill, low strats type.  It is what got him the ire of the NG community, as well.  He has the skill and HQ recording equipment to impress the casuals, but vets recognize inferior tactics when they see them.  Teaching a bunch of people to do stupid shit (or not teaching them anything at all in a messy, chaotic performance) isn't regarded highly.  With time, I was able to help him up his game (at first he didn't know who to really listen to in the community).  He even pulled a 'me' with GoS (working the boundary in a fight NOBODY does honestly to this day *unthinkable to even try as it is totally bullshit to the point it is a trapcard to ask mouthy kids if they've beaten it as such yet*).  He came a long way, but his early work has a lot of bad takeaways.   Taz had my early approval for being high skill, high strats (a fine balance with good quality positioned well to properly spread the good word).  Myself?  Low skill, high strats (and LQ).  Zim is essentially a second Taz (but with my shitty recording set-up).

>learn a few things
Naturally.  You're new.  You could watch Bick play and pick up a thing or two (even excluding times he is just parroting my lessons without credit).

>very exploitable
Ask SBK about it some time.  The basic gist is that some attacks are worth a fuckton in general.  Hitting multiple foes at once will make even lesser options shine brilliantly.  Just spam away on a cluster.  Loop as much as you're allowed to to game the system (like anything else).  It isn't a human judge.  It can't actually tell what is going on.  It has no 'taste', really.  Just learn what it is made to think well of and how often you can just use such things (then use them well).  Some high DMG options build tons of meter, so why not focus on them?  Many moves just don't matter at all (merely there to fuck around).

It is like how things are for most Tekken characters (only a handful of moves in the entire kit mean shit *King is a rare case with a HUGE moveset and reason enough to actually use a healthy portion of it*).  You just shouldn't be using a lot of that absolute garbage.  They shit on Stinger for being leaned on by casuals, but guess what?  They're fighting right to be doing that attack to close the gap in a lot of instances.  These assholes stupidly suggest dicking around and try to play mental gymnastics (keeping off the ground as much as in their preferred uploader's videos) on why that is good for just beating the game (it isn't).

>defined rules
There are.  Just that PAIN/PAIN+ can vary with the entry (more room for exceptions as you pile conditions on).

>not eager to do DMC4
I could only make myself go through it once.  The second half is just the first portion in reverse (and Dante was pretty well ruined for me).  The first half was a shitty, basic character that managed to have grabs I didn't really care for.  Amazin'.

>found coverage by Zig and Hotel
So that's how it was.

Fair bit could be said since the last update. Frieza is black now, so that's fun (from the lizard calling Saiyans "monkeys" disparagingly all the time). Also, this:

Saw the Black Frieza transformation too, can't say I'm too pleased or amazed by the current transformation trends (recolors). The transformations from the just-released film are also a tad....eh.

They're going to get all the way through the rainbow soon.

Let me guess. He beats up the good guys who then train and become stronger and win in one shot?

Roy: >shit transformations
Not into early MK tier palette swaps? *hohoho*

NOTE: Gokeks pushed JaG enough that he'll do 100 chaps that dunk on him (and probably a follow-up to that).  Not quite what I'm looking for, so I'll be sure to push for those proper Jobber series vids (another five to the two existing *as I'm not trying to summon Toronbo-sama here, I want Zalama*).  So long as TARDku's fans keep fucking up, I'll get my way eventually.

Birdman: >the rainbow
Soon it will give up its power to Super Saiyan Rainbow (all colors of the visible spectrum).  What then?  It will kneel as spectrums beyond visibility are accessed.

>becomes stronger
A given.

>win in one shot
Probably not going to shit on the 5cm lizard this hard (sadly), but he will no doubt eat another L from them in time.

Follow-up to the previous vid:



NOTE: Haven't had the chance to view it yet, but a glance at the thumbnail shows it is indeed 100 rather than 500 characters. Duration is sub-50m, but not by a lot. Probably some explanation for why this is happening (as if justification is needed to shit on Gokek and/or the Carrot Cult when a paid hit *rather, I should be getting them as this is in place of four installments while forgetting the fifth*). I imagine the talk from before means after Marvel gets their 100, if there is enough 'love' it'll probably be DC getting their turn up at bat. Eventually I'll see Goku (Jobber) Parts 3-7 (properly covering DB, Z, GT, Super and movies/specials/games/side-shit).

Hey, alright. Have another:



NOTE: What do you lot prefer? Anime/Manga next or Horror?

^ For me, Anime/Manga. I'm just a little bit more familiar with it (way moreso than Marvel or DC). Horror should be interesting.

Horror was selected for the next outing, which met its 'like' goal in the first day or so, I believe. Will no doubt be 400+ for the next installment (Anime/Manga), so that will take a few days (if not a week). As for when it will drop, who can say?

>last left off with the DC edition
There have been some others to share since then, but he went way off the beaten trail. Seems reluctant to finish up the true project (of actual worth). This aside, Super's latest saga has been some garbage SoL stuff with Goten and Trunks as our focus (while leading into Super Hero events *making it clear that PISSculo and his orange state should be up there while BEASThan should already be beyond Obsidian Lizardlet if AT can be trusted*).

Still need to read the two or so chapters that have come out so far (lots of Mai focus and Trunks shaming himself *the part of Gotenks that made the ghost attack, yet he is afraid of them in a verse where he knows such things are not real being familiar with the actual afterlife*). Anyway, the time finally came to do what needed doing (help them to ACCEPT the WILL of the creator): https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/2000113-dragon-ball-general/80331002

NOTE: Would have been nice having a better option for sharing (that isn't the transient alternative I already had).

For fun, why not share a few choice links that shouldn't be too troublesome for dear old Royboy?:

I did it for the lulz:

NOTE: Cabbage's role was originally intended for Pickle Junior, but I've not gotten around to doing anything with him just yet.

Made quite a lot of fun use of DeepFake TTS. Not all of it can be used at GFAQs (maybe not even here *regarding some of what remains*). Not all DB (or even related to this matter). Had a good time with it. Might indulge gain some day, but for now this suffices. I've got a lot of other things to attend to (as is known). My other DBG topics, for instance. I've put /dbs/ on the backburner with the low priority saga (and the wiki is basically destroyed). Got redoubled focus on GoW through Wright (think it is just the GoW1 testing currently), Zesty (few streams and some vids *enough for a week or so if I could just focus on that alone*), Zim (just CoO, I think *for now*), etc.

Unrelated bonus:

NOTE: As before, I have a few others, but I'm unsure the language would tickle Ranger pink. Some hurtful things being said about some (very) protected peoples, I'm afraid. Not sure he would want any such heat on his forum (as it is probably illegal in his country *like actually*).

Been funny watching Gokeks suffer through Toranksu taking the MC spot in Super. However, that bit of fun is just about over. JaG badly wants views, so he's putting off the work he owes on the front of shitting on TARDku. The /dbs/ kids are mostly dead (little fight in them). Been working on DBG as of lately, but my priority has been GoW proper. Hard to find the time for both, really. Finishing up the Jobber Pose thing is going to take a lot of time. CRYku will have to wait (though that one should go much quicker). The Toronbo thing is done where canon is concerned, but I suppose I'd need to go through non-canon material, too (wonderful). The horror. Counting the losses of JOBalot is just such a bother. Still, fun helping the kiddies on YT learn the truth about PEDERASTku (as with Supa Saiya Jobber Tres being dogshit). Back to it, then.

Top 5 goku forms:

1. SSB
2.SSB kaioken
3.SSB perfect
4.SSB kaioken times 10
5.SSB kaioken times 20

It seem Toriyama has passed away.

Rest in peace.

Very unexpected, passed away a week ago due to a sudden subdermal hematoma (brainbleed basically). Already buried by his family. Heartwrenching news honestly, I have fond memories watching the show as a kid and drawing Goku and his family with way too much and long hair.

rest in peace, akira toriyama

you made everyone's childhood

>bump for 'Breakers'
Funny. Anyway: "Akira Toriyama...is dead." - Krate

"Amidst the saga of Saiyan strife, where battles raged with unyielding might, Goku and Vegeta clashed in epic fight. Through the chronicles of their storied lore, one truth remained evermore: Vegeta's victories stood at four, while Goku's tally remained no more. Thus, within the annals of their lore, the score endured, a truth to adore: "The score is 4-0, Forevermore."

May he have 1K granddaughters to peep on in the showers of Heaven. He's raffin' with the angels down at the Gokeks now.

also has anyone played the worst dragon ball game of all time called dragonball z sagas? i did when i was a kid..

Man this was so unexpected, a random ass Thursday night of all things……

No, though I did play the arguably worst one I ever played: Ultimate Battle 22. Oh lord that game makes you appreciate games with decent controls.

My heart dropped when I saw that last night. RIP.

/games

I played Sagas but it was years ago. I thought it was decent at best. My personal viewing of the worst game is Ultimate Tenkaichi. I thought it would be another classic like 2 and 3 but I did not like the gameplay.

Nadster wrote:My heart dropped when I saw that last night. RIP.

/games

I played Sagas but it was years ago. I thought it was decent at best. My personal viewing of the worst game is Ultimate Tenkaichi. I thought it would be another classic like 2 and 3 but I did not like the gameplay.

never played ultimate tenkaichi but i certainly played dragonball z for kinect which is xbox 360 exclusive with my friend. Dbz kinect uses same engine as ultimate tenkaichi. So it's pretty much a recycled game with motion sensors