Dragon Ball

Raeng: >drawing Goku
I might still have some of my old drawings.

>UB22
This came in a bundle with another title; Legends. Though that one was pretty boring looking back. You could spam the attack that sent opponents down to the ground and win everything, and this was pretty much the best option. Opponents could counter it, but you could counter their counter, which has a pretty lenient window from what I remember.

GMG: >quote
I imagined him actually saying this with that AI voice you can use on that one site.

>4-0 forever
Quite so. Set in stone for all eternity.

>granddaughters
I forgot the story surrounding this.

Nuclear: >played Sagas
Yes. Quite dull from what I recall. Not sure if this or Digimon World 4 are worse.

Nuke: >Sagas
No. Last I played was a demo for Infinite World. Wasn't the Budokai 4 I wanted. FighterZ doesn't focus on 1v1, so I'm not interested in direct playing.

>played worse version
Oof.

Omar: >unexpected
A meme word for these matters in more ways than one. He was quite private. What is noted as cause isn't elaborated on. Accident? Maybe. I wonder if he didn't go down like Miura to the jab.

Ranger: >UB22
It and DBGT:FB were my first two titles owned. Before that it was old Nintendo stuff (Fighters and RPGs *often in JP*). Difficult to play most, really. I committed all the same.

Nad: >Tenkaichi
The ESF style was not to my liking. Kept away.

Wright: >drawings
I'd only have a few. 5th grade and maybe one from 10th.

>bundled
Oh? Did it finally get some damn translations? Dubbed, maybe? The character upgrading was the first appeal it had. Same for Final Bout. Both were about frequency of using a move making it proportionally better than the other moves (latter might have punished moves not getting used *hard to say*). I got so over-leveled as to break the cap (99) with lvl130 or so Super Vegetto who had multiple moves that would one-shot lvl99 SS4 Goku yet some that barely hurt his many life bars. No idea what the real cap was. My up-kick string was the strongest move (probably nine hits all lethal DMG).

These games always have abusable AI. B3 was no different (though my favorite). Hell, T7 was no different. Clowning the highest setting in stupid ways is my specialty (for King I would b3 the taste out of their mouths then Burning Hammer them to death over and over as they couldn't understand how to avoid the UB if downed). With B3, charging moves made the AI want to do punishable actions. I liked running away to ki charge and do this (for meter while making them waste theirs on beams and such) until they were ready to tucker out (no more teleports and open even to ULTs). I could have my way. "Energy Barrier" was hilarious as a tool since you cannot warp it. The system only let you warp behind and NEAR, so you couldn't get away from it that way (AI was not programmed to do other things to counter it).

>imagined him
Who? AT? *raffs*

>set in stone
Likewise, Super at 6-0. Just shy of enough to wish for a better rival or to speedrun the whole thing with a time reversal.

>forgot the story
Interview when he was still doing canon material where he said he would like to pretend to be senile and peep on his grandchild (pretty sure Sasuke wasn't even that old yet, so his firstborn son was all he had at the time). Only half-joking (unlike talk of peeping on girls at the beach and hating his glasses fogging up).

Goku has never beaten Vegeta.

^ Good that you're not blinded by delusions and know the (obvious) true facts.

GMG: >wasn't the B4 you wanted
A downside from B3? What were its faults?

>DBGT:FB
I also played this one quite a lot.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I ever touched UB22.

>drawings
One of mine is Majin Vegeta doing the pose for the attack that pierced Fat Buu.

>translations
Not sure, but the one I played was all in Japanese. Same for DBGT:FB.

>character upgrading
I remember this very well. I used Kid Buu for this. Then I started doing this later on from scratch for Vegetto.

>same for
Oh, so UB22 had this as well?

>frequency of moves
Interesting that it had this as well. And yes, I also remember this aspect, too. Recall that I was a bit disappointed that my special attacks dealt chip damage compared to multi spinning kicks, so I set out to defeat an opponent by only using special attacks. Don't remember the result, sadly.

>punished moves
It definitely felt that way to me.

>over leveled
As did I, but I don't remember the exact level I had.

>up-kick string
For me, I used that attack where he does multiple kicks while ascending in the air. Then another where he did a gesture of 'shooting' someone, while something appeared below the opponent and hit them multiple times.

I also recently saw a TAS for the game. No idea how the runner is able to keep spamming special attacks with 0 ki left. From what I remember, the character would get tired and you could no longer control it for a period of time, making them open for easy, free damage.



>B3
Didn't invest enough time on this one to notice how to break the AI.

>T7
Tekken 7?

>AI wanting to punish charging moves
I see how this could be used in your favor, yes.

>imagined
Just the voice.

>Super at 6-0
Was this including Super Hero's win? I forget.

>an actual interview
Hilarious.

>Bird spreading AT's WORD
Hey, alright.

Wright: >faults
A fair few. Even in just the demo the systems changes didn't suit me. A new focus on on a gimmick mechanic with 'story' (cutscenes triggered by certain interactions) didn't sit well with me. Even in B3, it got rightly critiqued for a 'super state' where you could either got for an ULT or go into a RPS mini-game (RNG with AI, but against players it was pure guessing game *you cannot access FF otherwise*). The latter is indefensible, really. The former is somewhat excusable for presentation, but it would be good to also have a Shin Budokai style in-game version of such moves, too (maybe faster and less damaging for avoiding some of the risk and harder set-up). It just needed some work. Cute to have the 17/Pickle (most infamous case) gut checks (like when Geets put his boot into the belly of 19 and you could see his footprint come out the spine), but overplayed.

Not enough understanding of what worked, didn't learn lessons from handhelds, etc. The two pretend B4's both had things I didn't care for in the end, but the thing that bothers me most is failure to just have Character Creation. I don't care that much about having a roster of a gazillion. That's cool, but my focus is making my own crew. I don't need to replay the story again. What-ifs are sweet and even fun interactions (dialogue). But my focus remains on the gameplay with my customizations (and creations). I don't even want a story for the OC. That's a waste of resources that can be humored at a later point if at all. It just doesn't seem like asking a lot to me. They need only have the essential characters, port (and upscale) the old moves/attires and let us do the work (changing colors, remixing to our liking and all that jazz).


NOTE: Even just the demos made clear to me I wouldn't want to really mess with them. Wanted to like them, but they lost me.

>Atomic Blast pose
Final Atonement for me.

>in JP
UB22 was this. FB could be, but I had the rare original ENG VA (before Ocean Dub or Funimation were on that job). Became a collector's item (over 1K dollar value at the time).

>started with Kid and went to 'Getto
It was odd that FB choose to have so many non-GT things. The intro for my version was this:



Obviously there is a lot wrong with the intro. Part of the problem was it being made as Super Bebi was a thing. Before Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons. It was hurting for a cast. Despite this, it didn't have Uub let alone Majuub. There was a fair bit of snubbing, actually. Many versions of the same character (usually for transformations). Adult Goku feels like pushing it (just to include someone with a sparring match at the start against some unknown Indian not in the game). Jobbing to Geets in the intro is accurate, but it isn't even GTgeta (Buu Saga *amazed it wasn't Majin*). Sadly, this was before Final Shine, so his one GT thing isn't here yet (obviously well before SS4).

There were a few opps in space they could have used, but just choose not to. I don't mean Luud (though he could use the rig of the Golden Oozaru and have his own moves, but then Golden Oozaru Goku could have been a thing if they want all these forms *good luck Pan*). Where did the game get off NOT using Baby Vegeta AT ALL? Future Trunks is in it. GT Trunks still has his SS, too. An excuse DOES exist for Cell and Frieza in GT (no team attack for obvious reasons), but NOT Kid. Even Majin Buu (Good/Mister Buu) has an excuse (why is Super Buu in the intro at all).

Not sure why GT refused to age Pickle Man, but that's AT's fault. SS Goku is Cell/Buu. Why is he in this? Mystic Gohan is remembered even though GT blows it off. What? He should just be using SS. There is just a lot of head scratching to be done. Clearly Vegetto shouldn't be in this. But then Gogeta shouldn't (yet) either. I appreciate the 3D style makes alternative costumes a bother if they go too far off the rails, but still. They somehow don't even have SS3 Gokek (kid or otherwise). Pretty sure even SS2 gets snubbed (icon suggests one is that, but the model wasn't). Movelists are another matter. Blue Gorilla didn't even use GG. Had a regular mouth blast (instead of fire like GT went for).

Meanwhile:



Mystic Gohan is left out to let SS3 pretend it is tops. Super Buu makes it in this time (over Kid). Fat boy, too. Top reps of Ginyu and Zarbon get in. 18 was always going to get in over her brother for being basically the same, except meeting the female quota and being vastly preferred. 16 is his own dude. Only Perfection (for Cell). Shin (rather than his fusion). Not surprising. Wrong attire fore TEN (clinging to his glorious Cell showing). Gokek is SS1 rather than SS2 just for the familiarity. Teen Gohan actually makes it (SS2, of course). Majin Vegeta (typical). Chestnut is clearly not going to be his retired fighter self. Yamcha? Doesn't make the cut (among many others). Now way was Future Trunks getting snubbed (despite the brats *and SS3 Gotenks making it in*). Frisbee is unavoidable.



That's right. Kid Gokek (the real thing) make it in. Still has Power Pole, his tail and uses Nimbus. Roshi's no-flying ass is here. Even Satan. Just incredible they had a Potara variant leading into what is clearly the dance result.

>had to try special spam to focus on those
That would be the issue with that system as it was, yes. Thus my proposal differing a bit. FB was probably harder than UB22 to power up ki attacks. Don't think I really used 'Meteor Combos' in FB (their own thing, I believe).

>exact level
I think I was actually more like 127 or 129.

>upgraded the same move
AYYY.

>also Nappa's thing
Kek. I ignored that one almost completely. Weird they gave Vegetto a move he never used. Vegeta did his own version, but it wasn't blowing up the environment, but the opponent. Also, this was another early meme case of "Final Kamehameha" (in addition to the Ki Sword being treated like a beam for some reason). Give BBA to Anime Vegetto. Let Majin Vegeta use Atomic Blast and FF (aside from FA). Can't remember if he had a ki barrage advantage (he should).

>TAS antics
Not sure. I remember bugging the game out in a lot of ways (mostly graphical), but that isn't something I'm familiar with.

>not enough time
Too young, perhaps? With B2 it was funny to get OP in the story mode alone via power-ups to the point they couldn't harm you and you would one-shot. The infinities for +1DMG per hit after scaling went far enough was goofy even in B3. I liked the capsule system to an extent. Neat to have your own loadouts. Shame even upgrading never let you gain an extra slot even with investment (a powerful boon, indeed). Sort of the ATN meme, really. "AI" was funny if you wanted to watch them kill each other for some reason. These days the Tekken "ghost" model would be desirable to copy.

A shame even B3 did NOT have the usage thing as any sort of factor at all (could be its own independent and slow process complete with visual flair to signify the tier of modifier it enjoys compared to what your stats should otherwise enable). Still would want to ability to invest by choice (to help with things not landed as much getting strong and to a greater degree than via use by far). Likewise, we couldn't even dress up the characters (or have visible stuff from the capsules) like Tekken let alone make our own (when that ability finally came it was in ESL-likes that I don't give a shit about). Could have started light.

Smackdown 1 let you do what? Pick your head, torso and legs? Something like that. You gave a name, slightly adjusted height (maybe weight)? Very minimal. Then you choose a complete moveset and finisher. It gave many, MANY more options later. Even Tekken let us somewhat mix-and-match with Combat (not all it could be). This before later entries of Smackdown let us create even other things. In DB terms we could have had 'create an arena' (if only for a tournament with us making the rules, brackets, etc.). Obviously the coveted 'create a move'. Even if starting with pre-existing things (poses, VA lines, sfx, vfx, etc. with maybe some tinkering to the tune of recoloring, DMG/cost/SPD adjustment, properties, etc.).

Any concerns of balance could be handwaved as they wouldn't be permitted in 'normal ranked online' to begin with. Still, minimal efforts could go into it with 'ranges' for what is permissible being set (where if you want all the best qualities at their MAX, it shuts you down and forces you to not only favor things to varying degrees, but start taking L's for balancing). Like with attire, they could have motions and such NOT used by others in the game as bonuses to feel more unique (even from character they couldn't include or don't belong in DB, but don't want to get in trouble legally for using as a whole). Doesn't need to all be done in one game. Just dip a toe in the water and get started.

>KING of Iron Fist
DAS RITE

>including Super Hero
Both the movie and manga are 6-0, yes. Anime contributes with the 5-0. If going off manga continuity only, it is 5-0 as the final tally. The movie should work off the anime, but it can be hard to tell. This is talk of 'Super' as a whole.

>actual interview
He's a wild boy (saying a lot of goofy things).

Nuclear Sorrow wrote:also has anyone played the worst dragon ball game of all time called dragonball z sagas? i did when i was a kid..

Dragon ball sagas is not the worst dbz game, not even close, it's not mind blowing either, as a game.
But it fullfils the DBZ fantasy quite nicely, had fun playing as a kid and recently as well.

If you wanna talk about the worst dbz game you might wanna bring up DBZ Ultimate Tenkaichi

>Tenkaichi
*spits*
A curse upon it for going the route of ESF-lite.

GMG: >just the demo
So the issues were pretty apparent.

>gimmick with 'story'
This can't (read: couldn't have) end(ed) well.

>Shin Budokai
How's that one?

>17/Pickle gut checks
Kek.

>footprint come out of the spine
Was this a thing in canon?

>didn't learn lessons from handhelds
So those came out prior to IW?

>two pretend B4's
?

>Character Creation
Would have been neat, yes. Sadly, I think this only got to be a thing in XV.

>don't even want a story for the OC
...Also a thing in XV.

>Final Atonement
During his 'goodbye' speech, or when he actually does the move?

>UB22 was this
That, I remember.

>rare original ENG VA
>before Ocean Dub or Funimation were on that job
No wonder it became a collector's item.

>your intro
I definitely don't remember this.

>hurting for a cast
True. Lots of reps for some characters (mostly just Goku), as you note. SS1 Z Goku, Base GTku, SS1 GTku, Base Kid GTku, SS1 Kid GTku, and of course, SS4 Goku.

>jobbing to Geets in the intro
Kek.

>not using Baby Vegeta
Extremely bizarre, yes. Pity that only the Golden Oozaru version made it in (which wasn't playable).

>don't even have a SS3 Gokek
Never thought about this back in the day, but yes. Also strange.

>pretend SS3 is tops
>over Mystic
Oof.

>didn't use Meteor Combos
Never really understood how to chain them. I believe the opp could even break out and start one of their own (while I couldn't figure out the timing to break out of one myself).

Also, I remember the beam struggle minigame to be extremely demanding. I think one could reach a point where if you mashed enough, the game treated it as a foregone conclusion (reach that point, and even if you stopped mashing, the result wouldn't change).

>127 or 129
At least you remember it more clearly than I. I couldn't even give you a range.

>Vegeta did his own version
In the game?

>Final Kamehameha
True, that also appeared here.

>if he had a ki barrage advantage
Think everyone had the same version of it.

>TAS antics
It's also abused by human speedrunners, but even more often than the TAS, owed to the latter being able to secure hits with the move I noted earlier for Vegetto, so speedrunners opt to use Final Kamehameha ad nauseam until they win (running out of ki doesn't stop them at all). Had I known about this, I would definitely have been able to speed things up when I decided to power up special ki attacks.

>too young
Yes.

>get OP via powerups
I remember this, but for BT2. Think you could even bring the OP character to story mode fights.

>watching the AI kill each other
I did this for BT3 when I exercised at home. Couldn't listen to music because I didn't have working earphones, so I improvised this.

>Tekken "ghost" model
?

>Smackdown
Not familiar with it.

>6-0
Noted.

>anime contributes
So the 'foregone conclusion' is the actual 5-0?

>this is the case
Okay then.

Dante: >played Sagas
My condolences.

>had fun playing it recently
That right?

>phoenix

Shin budokai is basically watered down version of budokai series (I didn't liked both shin budokai) . Game was obviously marketed for psp so it controls worse and looks worse. Both shin budokai were released in 2006 then 2007

It came before IW (Infinite world)

I used to play the Budokai series religiously. B3 mainly.

Had this worthless SCUM scrub of a friend who used to come over and play against us. He had no ability to learn or adapt. Just kept trying to do the chains that lead to special moves. We'd beat him silly with vicious cancel combos.

One day I got sick of his disgusting gameplay and endeavored to teach him. Surprisingly, when I forced him to do some basic cancel combos (under threat of violence) he was able to pull them off.

But when we got back into real matches he just continued his same old nonsense. He had dead eyes.

The Word: >B3
>playing it like B1
Sounds like he got what he deserved.

>dead eyes
Mind empty.

Nukem: >Shin
It did alright for a handheld.  The dashes were alright along with new characters, alternate ULT system and the what-if approach.

Wright: >thing in canon
It was.  AT was goofy.  Even got gags by Kondo at times.  Pure machine as if it wasn't odd enough with the organics (considering biology).  At least with Pickle Junior that could sort of be a thing (slug man).

>pretend B4's
Infinite World and Burst Limit.

>only in Xeno
Deeply regrettable, yes.  There it tries to make a story including you for 'Time Patrol' rather than canon.  It isn't until 'Kakarot' that one gets some coverage for other material beyond Z, really.  DB in that case.  Obviously not GT (nor even Super).  Not in the Budokai style.

>goodbye
That one.

NOTE: Perhaps we should go over some of the things Vegeta has that are not properly worked (oversights of him through AT).  Fans dub the unnamed fireball a few things, but I'll just go with "Shine Shot".  As for the unnamed attack with pointing, that gets dubbed "Dirty Fireworks" owing to Budokai.  While 'Energy Slicer' (ki disc) is another obvious case, it is not unique to Vegeta.  (really, DF is a variant of what Nappa does *later Frieza with 'Death Wave' though his is more like another slicing move*).  I find FA (based on episode name if I recall right) a bit illogical on his part.  Even Atomic Blast (Budokai again) as a ki bolt is an odd assumption for him to jump to (with better results than it should have for no reason that makes any sense *opposite of the case with Gero's eye lasers on Pickle acting like the DMG taken was no big deal*).

>no wonder
And limited production, of course.

>bizarre
They really could have had Kid Bebi (not the actual baby form from the incubation chamber as that's too much) and even Adult Bebi (sort of a pity to lack him so including as an alt for Bebi Vegeta might have to suffice as a joke finish where he lacks in techniques and is mostly just getting beat down without much fight) though only really the former fought at all.  Maybe a two part penultimate (sub-boss)?  Kid Bebi into Bebi Vegeta (as if taking him over and skipping the no counts)?  For the final boss, Super Bebi Vegeta 1, then Super Bebi Vegeta 2 (mostly palette swap) into Super Bebi Ape Vegeta as a three round fight where each win made you face a higher version of him as the final boss (since they love swaps so much).

The other Bebi cases aren't that notable (Gohan, Goten, etc.).  Including them as such would be a waste even as slightly altered models.  They don't do unique things.  Still, the correct version of Gohan should have been used.  Goten got totally snubbed.  Just give him his abilities from Z to help out his GT self.  If he had spots from GT, use what little is on offer.  Same for present Trunks (GT).  This is meant to be a GT game, is it not?  Still hard to believe Rilldo got left in the rain (base is pushing it and his in-between sucks, but his final form is worthy).  Mutchy is pushing it.  Luud is a good swap for the work put into "Super Baby', at least.  While 18 wasn't part of the saga, if they were desperate, they could have used her GT design.  It was already a thing.  Mister Buu was an option, but they just said to Hell with it (Kid).  Uub just straight up got fucked (much less Majuub).  The last notable is Ledgic for sure.  Bra, Myuu, etc. would just be memes.  

>not playable
Not by normal means, yes.

>strange fan favorite left out
Huge oversight, frankly.  But then, if they were to include such things, where the fuck is Gotenks?  Fans were right to troll with a fake way to unlock what should have been there if we're using Z stuff.  If this were truly GT, it would make sense for him to just not be a thing (unless they wanted to do a what-if).

>never really understood
They didn't exactly explain the system, did they?

>demanding
The mashing was easy for me.  Think this was an early time for me to practice along with FFVIII.  I had a trick to use FA (think that was for B2 rather than B3).

>couldn't give a range
Was it over 99?

>in the game
No, not at all.  Think B3 first to have him do that.  *checks*  No, it was the turn-based JRPG I had in JP.  I wonder which titles have him use Shine Shot?  FighterZ has a bastardized version of it.  *checks*  Obscure.  Xeno dubs it as such.  No respect, I tell you.  What a waste.

>also appeared here
The posture from Shin Budokai for it was the most amusing though just aping the simple offering of anime filler would have been most sensible.

>all the same
Probably.  Those with sense would give some better capability with it than others.  Piccolo should get a nod as the originator with Vegeta on par if not better for using it the most and best.  Pretty sure the former doesn't even have Scatter Shot in Final Bout.  No homing attack, either.  Technically he could have turned huge to pull a 'Super Baby'.

>?
Essentially 'learning AI' (mimics your movement, punishment, defense, combos, etc.).  Once you save a profile for how you use a given character, that version can be fought versus sliders on 'difficulty' being the only real factor (outside stats).  The old "AI" category may as well just be that (largely input reading deciding to do the 'correct' thing more).

>not familiar
It is as I described.  Simple, humble start.  It just got way more complicated in the sequel (well within reason) and far more so down the line (allowing even making of our own moves *would have to keep this more basic*).

>the actual 5-0
Super isn't canon, so no. With AT dead, we can't actually get the post-EoZ 5-0.  Foregone conclusion just refers to the Super anime ending.

Right, so Wright requested this discussion away from YT (owing to issues with replying). Less censorship here and the topic is worth covering openly, so here we are. I am going to list some...curiosities regarding "Grandpa" (granpa/grampa) Gohan (aka Rice Senior/Senior Rice) the guardian/adoptive grandparent of Kakarot (dubbed "Son Goku" by "Son Gohan the oddball with the only surname *out-of-verse it is because AT doesn't give a shit and just wanted that name for Goku, so this was his excuse while all the rest get just given names only for it to be explained nobody else does that in the modern era of this setting*).

I'm now going to list a variety of details regarding the ties of these two:

-Goku was taught a gag martial art (Janken) amounting to deception (with an eye poke, palm or punch)

-Goku was NOT taught Kamehameha (nor even shown the move) even though "grandpa" knew it

-Goku was told to train his tail ("grandpa" knew about and exploited his weakness to disable him before)

-Goku was told to NEVER go out at ou (in a full moon) yet does ("grandpa" had to have survived an Oozaru encounter, but because no talk of a tail regrowth comes up nor missing moon, he either beats Goku clean (possibly grabbed his tail as Yamcha would later) or just steers clear long enough *given the PL difference and KMHM option, both are likely*)

-Goku was told to NEVER fight back against a drunk (very weird *and he does honor this even when just thinking Roshi's Drunken Boxing gag as Jackie Chun was legit*) like the perverted (confirmed) hermit "grandpa"

-Goku was a squatter (just as "grandpa" had been)

-Goku wasn't entirely isolated from neighbors (and yet he never saw a single human other than "grandpa" until Bulma) as we would learn from later visits to his place (just somehow never encountered them)

-Goku was unable to identify sex without "pat-pat" of genitals (despite "grandpa" never having others around he may have taught this method of verification)

-Goku was taught to be nice to a girl if he ever met one ("grandpa" didn't mention they have different parts *thought of boobs as butts on the chest*)

-Goku was seemingly unaware he was the only one with a tail, but recalled "grandpa" didn't have one (he saw his ass)

-Goku was taught to be comfortable with casual nudity as made clear throughout the series (itching his junk, fishing naked with his tail, swimming naked, etc.)

-Goku was seemingly aware of toilets (never once seemed unfamiliar), but didn't use them yet had zero familiarity with a bathtub (never knowing what one was *a very curious thing for "grandpa" to never teach so much as in the water streams yet somehow DID know about scrubbing his "dirty" ass*)

-Goku was made aware of witches and demons yet not much about civilization other than that cars exists (no description given)

-Goku was sleeping with his head resting on the "pillows" (nutsack) of "grandpa" every night for years (as made clear when he panicked seeing "no balls" on Bulma)

-Goku was a violent boy when first found, but was given brain damage leaving a scar making him retarded and more docile (official story is relayed by Roshi parroting "grandpa", but while we see proof of the injury, we DO NOT see HOW it happened *we are told he fell down a ravine/gorge and are left to take or leave this explanation*)

-Goku was the owner of exactly one gi (never a reason to believe he had a bunch of the same one *though we do see he had an alternate outfit he later changes into after destroying the OG as Oozaru*) and was incapable of making or repairing it yet despite his Oozaru it was NOT destroyed (highly probable he was NAKED on the night he went outside after waking up out of bed *with "grandpa"* to go pee *outdoors like an animal* being that zero mention is made of his clothing being shredded at all *nor even the first time it happened so "grandpa" would know to warn him against looking at the full moon*)

-Goku was living in another home that got stepped on by his Oozaru along with "grandpa" (no further explanation on offer)

-Goku was talking to the last keepsake (four star dragon ball) as if it was his "grandpa" (referring to the other balls as 'more grandpas'), and upon hearing their name instantly thought a dragon was castrated (between that and the extending pole, you decide which is worse for him to make the association with)

-Goku was taught to pee in front of others (no big deal for him and "grandpa")

-Goku was taught so poorly how to count he thought he was 14 (when he was 12 in canon), so Roshi must have taught Gohan shitty counting (as 8 months of daily lessons only resulted in Gokek managing to get to 18 without help)

-Goku was seen throwing his crotch into the face of "grandpa" as a greeting

-Goku was never into women, and indeed seems entirely asexual (zero libido with never a singular interest *not even a blush* even after having kids)

-Goku was so disinterested in normal life (family, friends, etc.) he ran off on them (with a little brown boy *on Satan's dime*)

-Goku was an immunelet for some reason (no other human or Saiyan or anything else put over the 'heart virus' like he did that we ever saw *Trunks gassing it up is just talk*) as if he had AIDS

Spoiler:

>Goku wasn't taught KMHMH
Curious.

>Gramps knew about the tail weakness
Very telling, isn't it?

>survived an Oozaru encounter
Interesting, hadn't considered it before (as well as most of these others, but still). Makes you wonder why was he killed the second go around then.

>told to NEVER fight back against a drunk
Again, telling.

>never isolated from neighbors and never encountered another human
>but still had visits
Were those visits human?

>never mentioned girls have different parts
But Goku still knew that there were two sexes?

>recalled gramps didn't have one
>implying he saw him naked
I trust Gokeks are taking this really well.

>taught to be comfortable with casual nudity
>knew about scrubbing his behind
>sleeping with his head resting on the "pillows"
Oh boy. This does not bode well at all.

>how the ravine thing happened
Oh, so the anime scenes are filler? Though I don't remember if this happened in the actual anime, or later in Z or even Super (flashbacks).

>the mysterious state of the clothing after going Oozaru
We can imagine what happened.

>living in another home
Before gramps got killed?

>dragon ball point
Dear Lord.

>taught to pee in front of others
....

>this greeting
No doubt a regular thing.

>Goku was never into women
Gokubros... MAKE IT STOP.

>immunelet
To this day the 'heart virus' was just treated as that? Seem to recall something about people saying he got it from Yardrat.

>groomed
Assume /dbs/ got this burnt into their minds by now. If so, great work as always.

This is possibly the funniest discussion that you can find here, I LOVE IT.

You should go to old gamefaqs discussions with both sbk and bigvee, such a spectacle to behold.

Omar says it best.  I was going to recommend Dodo see myself and SBK shitpost (doing a little trolling) acting like Shin was a mastermind (this in my Jobber Pose topic).  I'll have to get back to Wright (and SBK) with proper responses a bit later (got Waffles on hold at GoW:A sub-board).  Doing GoWII run progress at the moment.  Still need to slap up some Gokeks (aside from the monthly duo *was a trio but my boy dropped out*).  Still amuses me when goofs can't tell myself and others taking up my style apart (especially bad with SBK as he is much closer to my views, fuller format, lexicon/verbiage, etc.).  The "alt" talk goes hard on ol' GFAQs (arguably worse there on DBG than at /dbs/ on 4chan).

Regarding canon (for Super):

Spoiler:

This with Diaper on the way playing at legitimacy (and fucking retards like Geekdom talking about still another secret project AT super definitely absolutely worked on *to keep that lie going*). His death will end this bullshit eventually, but you will hear jackasses talking like AT left notes in his porn stash for future tales. This from a guy who didn't want to do DB and never planned ahead (rarely jotting anything down even from the past for reference or bothering to check his own work). The same fans that DO NOT understand canon, clearly DO NOT care about it are also the ones that desire to cover of it the most. It used to be that GT (more than movie and filler *from the anime adaptation*) were kings of this copium, but Super overtook them (between the two was DBO, but nobody gives a fuck about some stupid obscure game).

Was asked to cover a few things. Regarding Daima episode 1, off the top of my head some notables:

-Nameks are demons again (from Makai) *potentially something AT would come up with while raffing mind you*

-Shin randomly has younger siblings (Xeno OCs replaced with these OCs) that are Not-Zamasu and Not-Towa/Vomi living in Makai serving some goober

-Think the goober is some second-in-line (possibly sibling) of Dabura who was considered a benchmark for power (so they freak out with Perfect Cell and beyond)

-Conveniently have GodTube variant (complete with smartphone touchscreen viewing)

-Popo put in place as inferior to Kami/Dende (anime scaled him up beyond the cyborgs casually) with nothing suggesting the not-at-all growing guardian has trained up to help the case (OHKO'd by Shin's lil' bro)

NOTE: Him offering juice to the victory is bitch made.

-New elderly Namek just disregards the refresh on balls and summons them as stone

-He has canon colors, but non-canon hands

-Potara fusion returned to old rules (at least for kais)

-U7 concept still exists (so Super isn't out so much as Daima become prequel to a new continuity entirely which everyone is thrilled for)

-There is zero reason the wish to force age regression works on those stronger than the maker of the balls (and thus the dragon). That invalidates the whole idea of this. And if he can arbitrarily pick a point in their existence, why leave it to first grade (with first grade types being taken to babies). Why not all newborns (or worse)? If able to affect them all, send them to Hell. We already know it doesn't get rid of their memories nor return them to the power they had at that point in their lives (monkey paw'd). It is just GT bullshit all over again

-Headcanon is offered up about growth spurt at 15, but fucking Vegeta grows all the way into his 30's and his future son aged properly the whole way (as does Gohan). Gokek is the only one who went from shrimp to late teen all at once.

-Gokek is allowed an even fight with Vegeta (both staying in base) using techniques this time (pretending KMHM is better than GG *bullshit*) and letting it look like TARDku had the edge before they get interrupted with the wish (AT would NEVER *rolling in his grave with his spirit disturbed from spying on cherubs in the showers*)

---

Omar requested talk of Goku as a bad father and bad husband (which ties into being a bad lover, too). Nothing about bad friend (saving me some trouble). Going over ALL instances would require way more effort (and combing through the material at length). I'll mostly focus on canon here (as, again, I don't want to go out of my way with filler, movies, specials, GT, etc.). Really, the point should be 'actual Goku' anyway. Even if limited to mainstream, that would only extent to his anime self (light element of Z movies and Super since most will disregard GT *as they are now turning on Super for Daima, mind you*).

NOTE: This cycle repeats as I mocked the GT fags with Super while telling Superfags their time would come, too (so it has). DBO, Xeno, Heroes, etc. all take the L. Each 'new thing' is treated as something it isn't. Then discarded. No lessons learned by these mud-minds.

I'll see what I can dredge up in my current condition from memory alone (without dwelling too hard):

-(husband) First meeting of future wife is as a kid with pat-pat (foot taps her armored bikini bottom front) before she sends him flying off the cloud as she collides with a tree (all this after she grabs his tail to get on the thing)

-(husband) No notion of marriage, promises it (thought of as food), forgets whole thing, gets reminded, one-taps would-be fiance (wind gust to knock roughly out of the ring), no attraction to women, gets hugged (just looks in disgust and confusion telling her to let him go), etc.

-(husband) Obviously the more knowledgeable Chi-Chi has to take advantage of Gokek (violates for Gohan) with no proof of any affection really existing in this period for them (she clearly is only focused on Gohan by the time we next see her) with nothing indicating a kiss (not even the wedding we never actually see in canon)

-(father) Z starts half decent for 'our hero' here. Holding his boy and introducing him to 'friends'...just around half a decade late communicating with them at all (telling). The boy hasn't met people beyond his parents and grandpa by the looks of things. Definitely not far removed from the playbook of "grandpa" (GROOMhan). The biggest issue? Why does he have the damn dragon ball on his hat? Memento and ode to his namesake, sure, but why the actual thing knowing it brings trouble? Very dumb and dangerous, but he seems to care enough to fight for his child (jobs) who is kidnapped, then teams with an opp to go get him

-(father) With said opp, he risks his son with an honorable gank (silly as that sounds, but also still demanding the return) like a moron. Let's him go by the tail (risking his child and beyond even knowing the intent and nature of this dude whom he has no reason to believe is the only threat even if he kept his word). His idiocy is such a liability it undermined the heroic sacrifice (totally avoidable) even before it leads to his opp kidnapping and grooming his kid (luckily into a better person with a change of heart *plot doing work*)

-(husband/father) Has means to call back home to inform his wife and child how things are. Doesn't. Pretty sure he only contacted Roshi about when to wish for his return. This sort of thing will also be a recurring problem with him (as it was before with 'friends'). Even as a corpse he eats (doesn't need to). Time he could spend to communicate. Doesn't feel any need to. It isn't in his nature. He's naturally a bad parent and partner in this regard.

NOTE: That's enough for now. I'll continue little by little later.

Diana episode 2 comes out tomorrow for Netflix, will start watching it there(for professional shitting).

>Diana
I'll get to shitting on episode 2 (and beyond) eventually. Diaper is low priority with AT dead. I've heard talk not just Namekians and Fruit (Core) People *read: the kai* are demons of the Makai, but Saiyans are also from it. If it has pointy ears at all? From the Underverse (where before in canon the Oververse of Other World was to be the homeland of Shin's supposedly divine race of humanoid apples). No such tie in for Oni (yet). Maybe they're just from Hell (Oververse, by the way), but made to serve. Then there is the genie (Popo)...what's under the turban? Horns? Knife ears are all on a watchlist.

NOTE: I'll continue more about bad dad/husband stuff in time. I trust the Super as non-canon coverage was useful to you?

Finished episode 1 and 2, ‘‘twas actually not as bad as I thought. Although it’s mainly in the intro phase so who knows it may become abysmal later on.

>not as bad
Giving the low standards since canon ended, anyway. **raffs**

NOTE: Pointy ears all day. Pilaf? Probably a demon. King Kai? Seems even lesser kai are just so. Popo? Horns. Still haven't gotten around to E2 (or E3). I've got other business to attend.