Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion.

>works well enough
I agree honestly, but at times, mainly in the encounter in chapter 2 with rasetsu, it can be a bit of a ckisterfuck with the IS ninjas doing a dmc2 style combo video on my ass and the camera gets next to a wall and the big bug grabs me and starts chewing on my flesh while the camera is having a seizure in the background. Never really experienced it too much with the other encounters tbh. Which is why I think it stands out to me here. Most likely a skill issue I can see tho.

Well, rasetsu is bodying my ass. No joke, I have been stuck on this encounter for like 2 days. Worst of all when I killed him 1 time a IS ninja threw a bomb at me and I was screwed. Wanted to punch my tv.

Eended ch14 of Master Ninja. And honestly my mind is not that changed, I still prefer mentor difficulty. If I would play fresh run, I would play on mentor.

This games is extremely good when it's good, extremely boring and annoying when it's bad. These are more vivid on mater ninja difficulty thanon other difficulties. For example, Ch10-Ch11 were like twelve out of ten, the first TOV was fifteen out of ten, but Ch12-Ch14 were minus seven out ouf of ten(at least imo).

What *exactly* changes between difficulty settings?

Never touched Acolyte, Warrior was somewhat challenging and Mentor is a big step up (i'm currently on chapter 10 in my run)

But aside from enemy distribution/items and upgrade values/damage taken, does anything else really change? I feel that the enemies are way more aggressive and mobile but I can't say it for sure because i don't have info enough

Lenz wrote:What *exactly* changes between difficulty settings?

Never touched Acolyte, Warrior was somewhat challenging and Mentor is a big step up (i'm currently on chapter 10 in my run)

But aside from enemy distribution/items and upgrade values/damage taken, does anything else really change? I feel that the enemies are way more aggressive and mobile but I can't say it for sure because i don't have info enough

Explosions, explosion everywhere on Master Ninja. That aside, there are less new enemy types introduced on higher difficulties compared to NGB (where you also had completely new bosses introduced on higher difficulties). I don't remember if Fiend Ninjas (the ones who explode their arms on you) are there on Mentor, though.

Btw, I'm also on Chapter 10 of my NUR, I struggled in the starting fights (but more due to skill issues and not concentrating enough), but I skipped the Rasetus fight. Now I got to the worms+bugs fight. Don't like this encounter much, as you can't face worms directly without them randomly grabbing you. Fortunately, there are infinite IS in the arena.

> NEPU
Mentor is more the safe choice if you just want to play, be challenged but not want to be fully focused. Master Ninja, no matter how good you get, it's a rough ride. You have to be on your a-game, which is half the fun of course. I fully agree that after chapter 11 the game falters. I tend to just rush through those last parts to be honest.

> what changes
Enemy locations/setups and item-costs. That's about it. I'd like to say Enemy Agression, but I have no hard proof on that (i.e. game data).

> Explosions, explosion everywhere on Master Ninja.

So, the IS frequency of IS Ninjas is increased or it's just because they're everywhere in that mode?

Anyway I'm excited, it looks like an entire game of that church encounter and that's my kind of bullshit

Roy

> I'd like to say Enemy Agression, but I have no hard proof on that (i.e. game data).

ok it makes sense. it's just a matter of feeling tho, that church encounter is the exact same in warrior and mentor but i keep getting staggered all the time in mentor while in Warrior the IS Ninjas are way more generous with you

Lenz wrote:> Explosions, explosion everywhere on Master Ninja.

So, the IS frequency of IS Ninjas is increased or it's just because they're everywhere in that mode?

Anyway I'm excited, it looks like an entire game of that church encounter and that's my kind of bullshit

Roy

> I'd like to say Enemy Agression, but I have no hard proof on that (i.e. game data).

ok it makes sense. it's just a matter of feeling tho, that church encounter is the exact same in warrior and mentor but i keep getting staggered all the time in mentor while in Warrior the IS Ninjas are way more generous with you

IS Ninjas are definitely more present, and in CH 11 they are replaced by Fiend Ninjas, who are more durable and can even tank an Izuna Drop. Also, multi-rocket ninjas get replaced by white ninja archers (who are obnoxious due to being insanely accurate with their bows).

The church encounter is for some reason much worse than many other encounters with IS Ninjas.

> The church encounter is for some reason much worse than many other encounters with IS Ninjas.

In what sense? It's the hardest fight in Mentor so far but also the best one since it has its own learning curve without being too rigid about memorization. MN overall seems to be a big hit or miss tho.

Lenz wrote:> The church encounter is for some reason much worse than many other encounters with IS Ninjas.

In what sense? It's the hardest fight in Mentor so far but also the best one since it has its own learning curve without being too rigid about memorization. MN overall seems to be a big hit or miss tho.

I meant in terms of difficulty, not quality, the encounter is good. And yes, MN has a lot of fun parts (e.g Gajas , Van Gelfs, and even Wolves, though I get killed a lot by these enemies as well), but also a lot of garbage (like much of Chapter 9, and Gigadeath). Still, I learned new strategies in my NUR that made some fights more enjoyable.

>I fully agree that after chapter 11 the game falters.

I maybe play new gameplus on master ninja, because I didn`t upgrade all weapons(Vigoorian Flail & Duel swords) so I wanna play around. But I will manually save the end of ch9 and ch10 so I can always enjoy the best part haha.

The best chapter imo is by far 7, fantastic chapter is all I have to say.

chpater 7 >

It`s not best to me, but ch7 is wonderful except for intro arrow section. Enemy types are various, situations are tense, New weapon(tonfa) to experiment, and a fantastic boss fight.

CH7 is the best if you're bad at the game (which is why it's also my fav level lol). If you're good it's CH11.

Malcar wrote:CH7 is the best if you're bad at the game (which is why it's also my fav level lol). If you're good it's CH11.

It's due to those tactical Ninjas allowing you to experiment more with your combos, and the ToV is fairly easy too IIRC. Still, it has Mechas, who can be nasty especially with their stomp attack. Also, Genshin is very hard in this chapter, in part due to IS Ninjas, and the arena you fight them in. Though it's also easier to avoid his combos for that same reason.

>best if bad
EXACTLY!!!! I just think tactical ninjas just allow so much freedom while still being a great challenge.

Will say, the encounter with raetesu in mission 2 on mentor should have used tactical ninjas instead of IS imo. I think IS is too much of a jump in difficulty. Wanna hear your guys take on this.

Finally beat it, and it was really fun once I got a hang of it. I was playing too passively at first, so I decided to play more at their faces, and won. I just had to balance aggression and defense. It was really rewarding after doing so. Overall, chapter 2 is very good so far imo. Got to the teleporting mages on the higher level. Near the end I think.

I think I found a loop for the final boss for chapter 2, that being X,X,Y which breaks his guard constantly.

Omar73874928271728 wrote:I think I found a loop for the final boss for chapter 2, that being X,X,Y which breaks his guard constantly.

Which weapon did you use? A good strategy, according to JTB IIRC, is using >Y with the Talons.

>which weapon
LS(lunar staff).

Just finished NG2. This game? Baller.
I loved the entire journey, onto the next difficulty setting (here's hoping i can skip cutscenes **even tho they're not that long**).
Really, really fucking good. A very different game that the usual. Might not even do challenge runs for it and just aim for efficiency for every run from now on. Game's vanilla run is a challenge run on its own, as Zapan said.

The encounters were top notch and creative. Making the best use of my entire arsenal is what got me through them all. Encounters are what i live for in action games. The ones in NG2 required some really ON-POINT decision making. Insanity.
Some, i died once to and knew how to approach the second time around with well planted UTs.

I loved the bosses of this game. I know with enough practice, i can get better at fighting them. Tho, sadly Gigadeath wasn't the challenge i was expecting him to be. Mainly becuz i think i got way too lucky with my arrow usage. Wasn't the gatekeeper i was expecting him to be, but i know he's gonna fuck me up in future runs.

Overall, the game is one of my all time favorites now. Very beautifully designed with the delimb system and a bunch of other shit to talk about and learn even further. Thanks for telling me to NOT touch Sigma 2 and just go with this one. Best decision ever. NG2 is king.

On the sideline, i played NG 1989 today. And i got really busy with it. A very fantastic game that held my attention THIS many years later. I love the snappy nature of it, and was seeing the transitions that the team made when they made NG1 for Xbox. This snappy and precise movement that i've fallen in love with in NG1 and NG2 was always there since day one. The wall jumping, the weight of the attacks, the precise jumping, and the weighty running that Ryu does. It's all been there ever since the start.

So, basically, NG 1989 is a VERY GOOD FUCKING GAME. I love this franchise now. I had a very messy walkthrough with NGS1. Started my walkthrough nearly 2 years ago, resumed it a month ago after having a play style change (favoring efficiency and planning over styling and stuff). I can't wait to replay both these games to death. Huge games.

> NG 1989

It's a very soulful game. I feel that NGII is much more akin to the NES games than Black, and considering all its structure and combat system, I think this is a miracle. The last stage of chapter 8 is literally a Castlevania level (stage 17), I don't know if it was intentional but I think this is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xqm2XCzmpw&t=33s

>Clock tower
Honestly, yeah. And that clock tower was a fun level.

> NG1989
It's such a solid game, I'm still surprised by how many little factors are going on in its despite it's outwardly simple nature. Just the secondary weapons alone add a lot of freedom and fun experimentation. I never clicked with its sequels though, despite them having some cool new ideas and mechanics.

> NGII
Glad to hear it clicked so well with you Zesty. In terms of future runs, the general gatekeepers are (on master ninja):
- the run to the first save in chapter 1 (unless you're lame and constantly savescum)
- the run to the first save in chapter 2
- the Claw-room in chapter 2
- the test of valor in chapter 3
- the vangelf hallway just before Gigadeath
- the run to the first save in chapter 4
- staircase in chapter 10
- the entirety of chapter 11
- zedonius in chapter 12
- dagra dai in chapter 14

Those are generally the breaking points to watch out for. Not necessarily all ultra difficult, but they are moments where you might go "damn, this shit's unreal".

> challenge runs
The older I am getting, the less enclined I am to do these. I did them a bunch as a teenager and in my mid-20s, but now that I'm pushing mid-30s I find that there's more fun in vanilla runs on the highest setting, or even just doing NG+ and toy around more with the kit.

> chapter 2 boss
You can sorta semi-loop him on higher settings if you know his pattern, there's also the neat mechanic of countering him, which works wonders. In NGS2 you can legit infinite him with the lunar-Izuna (doesn't work in vanilla).

> chapter 7 is the best if you suck
I feel attacked.

Chapter 11 is fantastic, but I love the setting and music of Chapter 7. Also the announcer is just hilarious. "Warning, we have an intruder. Be careful! She is very hot"!

Only in a Team Ninja game.

> - the run to the first save in chapter 1 (unless you're lame and constantly savescum)

HOW DARE YOU SAY THIS, THAT IS A TACTICAL DECISION MAKING (from a humble savescummer)

This poster right here admin.

Wait. I'm the admin.

Fuck.

So chapter 3 in mentir seems to spam van gelfs it seems?

Yeah there's some tacticals on the roof and at the start, but later-on it's Van Gelfs for life haha

So, I got to Chapter 11 after beating Eli yesterday. It was a brutal fight that I barely got past while using all my healing items, and the strat I found was using aerial X,X,Y with the Scythe, as it's not clear when she is vulnerable to ground combos. But aside from maybe a few encounters with the Worms, Ch 10 was great.

Now I'm sure Ch 11 will be very fun, but also enrage me, since the enemies here are Fiend Ninjas. Hope it goes well, especially against the triple Rasetsus. Fortunately, I have a shit ton of essence to buy healing items.

That's some NG2 renaissance. Never seen this much activity concerning NG2, almost makes me regret griding all those hours in NG:B/Σ, where instead I should have been playing it. Wonder if NG3:RE gets its moment to shine.

Paul Allen's profile wrote:That's some NG2 renaissance. Never seen this much activity concerning NG2, almost makes me regret griding all those hours in NG:B/Σ, where instead I should have been playing it. Wonder if NG3:RE gets its moment to shine.

NGB is the best game in the genre, so nothing to be regretful about. Definitely better than spending them on a fresh NG2 MN run. And I hope the series returns to NGB's levels of speed and difficulty, tbh.

Question, is river Styx drop with scythe just a nerfed izuna drip or does it grant different recourses and such?

It's an alt ID, similar properties and everything (the KG also has an alternative ID). It's useful if the enemy you're comboing isn't dead yet or if you need iframes or the AoE splash you get after the drop.

>alt ID
Interesting. So it’s more about the splash damage I assume?

>splash damage
Pretty much. Honestly the combo before it is powerful enough that you don't always need the drop to kill the enemy, but if he isn't dead you might as well go for it (and the splash makes it safer to land). The move's also somewhat bugged, since Ryu will perform it but won't always grab the enemy (at least on a visual level).

> NG2 renassaince
Glad to see the game get any activity, it's just such a gem.

> NG3RE love
I sometimes pop it in still, it's super good but a bit grindy at times since it's just fights after fights and you have to unlock so much on so many characters. I wonder if we'll ever see a quality karma or no-damage run on it. Don't think that's been done yet.

Gee, I got to the Rasetsus fight in Ch 11, and these jerks are driving me mad, I don't know how to deal with them, especially considering there are IS Fiend ninjas.

I think I'll pause my NUR, as this fight is too frigging hard.

> rasetsu gauntlet
Since you have Ninpo, I'd suggest stocking up and going in with windblades. Do windblades, and tag some i.frames together afterwards (roll+jump+scythe attack) and then do it again. The windblades of the Rasetsu's also kills IS, and they count, so together you can whittle them down. Use any essence for a Tonfa UT.

It's rough, doubly so knowing that if you beat it you still have to do two decently hard fights before being allowed to fucking save.

That gauntlet is going to kill me on mentor I know for a fact. Ughhhhh……….. Like who came up with that encounter? Most likely itagakai knowing him. Although it is a lovable encounter due to how hilariously bs it is imo.

I tried again today, but it was useless, it's still too hard. Granted, sometimes I did manage to kill all IS Ninjas, but then I always die to the Rasetsus themselves.

It's a crazy fight. My OLB+NN run took me like a few days to get through it of near continious attempts. I eventually managed to clear it once ever few attempts but the follow-up is just so brutal too.

Royta/Raeng wrote:It's a crazy fight. My OLB+NN run took me like a few days to get through it of near continious attempts. I eventually managed to clear it once ever few attempts but the follow-up is just so brutal too.

You mean you didn't use Ninpo at all? Btw, my run is actually a NUR+ (if we use GoW's rules), as I didn't upgrade my Ninpo bar and life bar. This means that, with items, I only have 6 Ninpos at my disposal.

Some other tips anyway? I always start the fight with a Tonfa UT, and then try to either kill a IS Ninja with it (via redirection) so I can also charge an ET, or use Wind Blades for i-frames afterwards.

Yeah I beat the game using no lifebar upgrades and never picking up the Ninpo chests, so I had zero-flames. Looks pretty cool.

I'd say start with a Tonfa UT, then immediately get out. Try and chain the essence if you can. Don't forget that your tonfa dash counts as a 'jump'. So if you hold Y after dashing you immediately OLUT and get the UT instantly. Don't forget that walljumps have good iframes too. Jump against one, use the wallattacks etc to buy time.

> items
You should have 9, 3 base, 3 items, 3 through resurrection.

Royta/Raeng wrote:Yeah I beat the game using no lifebar upgrades and never picking up the Ninpo chests, so I had zero-flames. Looks pretty cool.

I'd say start with a Tonfa UT, then immediately get out. Try and chain the essence if you can. Don't forget that your tonfa dash counts as a 'jump'. So if you hold Y after dashing you immediately OLUT and get the UT instantly. Don't forget that walljumps have good iframes too. Jump against one, use the wallattacks etc to buy time.

> items
You should have 9, 3 base, 3 items, 3 through resurrection.

That looks like a PAIN run. Or at least, it seems to be the closest thing there is to a PAIN equivalent, if you combine it with no upgrades, imo.

Gee, I forgot I still have an unused Talisman of Rebirth, that should make things a little bit easier. Didn't realize Tonfa dash counts as a OL, that's good to know. I suppose walljumps will be useful once there are no more IS Ninjas. At least I hope so.

I finally beat the Rasetsus. It was very hard indeed, but also fun. I had to use all my healing items, but thankfully I got to the next save.

I don't think any future fight will be nearly as hard as this one.

Gonna experiment more with the claws. I have a feeling I am underusing them.

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Gonna experiment more with the claws. I have a feeling I am underusing them.

Just so you know, forward+Y is an almost guaranteed delimb, though I prefer the DS in that regard. And you can turn a Flying Swallow into an Izuna Drop, which is arguably one of the best and most reliable techniques in the game, even on Master Ninja mode, at least against human-sized enemies (who also tend to be the most problematic in general).

Alas, the Claws' UT is not that great, though, imo.

Other good moves the Claws have are YYY (which ends in a powerful attacks with a high decap rate), XX->XYYY iirc (good aerial combo which will destroy anything, including bosses), the ->X strings (very mobile strings which can end in a grab for quick iframes) and the normal combo which ends with the kick on the head grab (don't remember exactly the inputs but I love that combo). Lastly you can also abuse the on landing 360Y, which does good damage and delimbs a lot, but overall the most useful moves of the weapons are the ones Zapan listed already (FS into ID can be used and abused a lot until you get to the more powerful ninjas, because they require 2 IDs to die). And yeah the UT is pretty meh, the range especially.

My personal favs are:

XX>Y; ends in a jump, which can transition into a wall-climb/attack. Very mobile and fast, high delimb too.

>XXY; the Y input is a grab, great for mobility and avoiding IS explosions as the grab is invincible.

XXXY(hold): good damage, final hit is a grab.

off-the-wall X; I think it's this one, it's the one where Ryu does this massive spin attack in the air. Insane decapitation%.

running attacks: in general all just really good. If you do XX>Y, once you land you're immediately in a running state. So you can use these two in tandem.

XX>XYYYY: absolutely melts bosses. Also great against airborne foes as it tracks them, like Dagra Dai.

Y: just a single input. Fast and can knock down.

>Y: insanely delimb%. Learn it, love it, don't rely on it too much as you'll suck at the game due to how great it is.