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Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion.

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ZestyTaf
herodeath99
Omar73874928271728
Zapan
nepu47
Hyperfist/Malcar
TrunkyDunker
GN1
Dan.A
AeternalSolitude
hebass
NiceNinja
TheFirmament1
CKR
Royta/Raeng
hedfone
RedShot
KSubzero1000
Nadster
Infinity_Divide
Birdman
Dark_Blood_NG
Gabriel Phelan Lucas
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551Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:58 pm

Hyperfist/Malcar

Hyperfist/Malcar
B-Rank

Also when he's summining lightning you can use wind run (X+A) and use Ninpo when landing for a good amount of iframes.

552Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:09 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

>ninpo
Ran out of them sadly. Sadly, a niece is watch ass potter currently so I would have to do this tomorrow.

553Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:56 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Something cool about ninpo imo is how it gives you many grabs that get rid of certain enemy limbs.

554Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:21 am

ZestyTaf

ZestyTaf
D-Rank

There's masturbating, there's sex, and then there's Tonfa.

Nuff said. Just fought a giant boulder looking turtle that catches fire, and absolutely scull-fucked it with the Tonfa. It was a complete stun lock. Kept pressing Y and attacking its head until it got to 'the phase' where it turns into a firey turtle.

Tonfa supremacy. So far, i'm loving how unique all the weapons are. With this fucking thing, it feels like i'm playing a different game dodging WHILE attacking.
Lunar is controll, as i learned from NG1, Dragon Sword is bread and butter, Dragon's Claw & Tiger's Penis is Dragon Sword but harder to handle with better results if done right, and Tonfa is FUCK FUCK KILL KILL of this game.

This is all i've understood so far from this game's awesome arsenal. There's also the Fiend's Bane Bow that i can't imagine having without the charged shots (Sigma 2, pliss). I'm enjoying myself with this game. It's goated. Just awesome how i'm getting introduced to games like this and NG1 THIS late into my gaming life.

https://www.youtube.com/@ExtremeGameplays1

555Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:50 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

>Tonfa
So your on mission 9 already?

556Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:52 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Never mind, chapter 7. Great chapter although the turtle bosses are dogshit. Not annoying or hard, just a complete waste of time.

557Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:53 am

nepu47

nepu47
C-Rank

>Turtle bosses

They are armadillos, which I rented a lot lol
And you can just erase him by throwing bomb shuriken


(look on 0:43)

https://www.backloggd.com/u/nepu47/

558Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:18 am

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

So, I reprised my NUR, and I got to Chapter 6. Holy crap, that Dino Skeleton is suck a jerk, I beat him but he was driving me mad with his stupid grab, his bone kick, the odd way some of  his attacks reach you, not to mention it takes too damn long to beat him. What a crap boss, I'd take Skorp over him any day.

The best strategy I found is getting behind him when he starts eating bones, but again it takes too long (even with upgrades, let alone without them).

I love Wolves, but  the problem is not being able to stunlock them, or stun them enough to land a combo, except after they try to grab you, not to mention their offscreen charge grab, which they sometimes  execute even AFTER you jumped on their head. And doing the latter doesn't stun them enough, of course.

Still, you can use your moveset more liberally against them than against IS Ninjas. I prefer Gajas and Van Gelfs, though.

Overall, 5 and 6 are good chapters, but 7 will be better, imo.

559Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:51 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

>wolves offscreen grab
It’s annoying yeah, there is a cue though if I recall. Giving it more thought, unsure why they game got rid of them after chapter 6.

560Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:52 pm

ZestyTaf

ZestyTaf
D-Rank

>Armadilos
>Incendiary Shurikens
I would've tried them if i got stuck a little further in the fight. I like to experiment with stuff in games, which is a big reason on why i beat Gigadeath so fast. Still, i'm aware that he's broken in MN. Thanks for the video.

https://www.youtube.com/@ExtremeGameplays1

561Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:52 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
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> dagra dai
I think I made a post about him in this topic (or was it the GoW one?). God I hate him. You can despawn his allies by not killing the Van Gelfs on the way to him, but this only works once (if you die, they'll spawn again).

> lightning
You can also use the running Y from the tonfa and cancel it into another running Y, but it's insanely tight in terms of timing. Generally I use XY into an aerial combo ending into a bow shot into Y with the scythe, then onlanding Ninpo to mitigate damage.

> the tonfa
I love how it just CRUSHES their limbs, the sound effect is second to none (best UT in the game as well).

> bow
It's a great utility tool. A half charge drags essence to you for an easy absorb, a single charge is a guaranteed delimb too. It doesn't deal bad damage, good airtime.

> dragons claw
That weapon's biggest draw is it's damage, which it has the most of. It also has the 360Y, arguably the best move in the game as it's fully invincible.

> armadillos
I still laugh at the suicidebomb he does at the end.

> dino skeleton
Horrid boss. There's a short timeframe when he falls down that, if you do Inferno, something glitches out and you deal 80% HP damage to him. I still don't know what causes this, but it's nice to have.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

562Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:20 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Dagra dai is making my ass a campfire stew(with some extra oil). God I hate him. But, am mega hyped to start mentor. The scythe is now my favorite weapon in the game by far. Only thing I want to learn from it more is moves that grant specific delimbs(like cutting off arm, decapitations, cutting legs,etc). That’s why I love kurisgama. Also watched a ninja gaiden 2 scythe only run and it was beautiful. One of the most beautiful showcases of a weapon I have ever seen.

563Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:24 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Raeng

> Horrid boss

After him, what bosses remain? IIRC, there's the Worm in CH9, and maybe the double dragons. Hopefully, after that, only regular enemies will pose a problem.

Omar

> Dagra Dai

For future reference, the trick with him is using the Scythe's aerial attacks (try X,X,Y) with some shurikens thrown in to stay in the air longer.

564Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:35 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

>air x,x,y
Fighting him now, thanks for the notes. Also the camera sucks in his fight haha.

565Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:59 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
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> horrid boss
Double Dragons isn't too bad, especially since you have Ninpo (I didn't on my OLBNN) and it was still doable. Worm is just UT spam, or you can use the Ninpo semi loop if you want with dual-kats but...eehhh just UT him.

Eli will be a problem. I know a few NUR runners that quit there. Your damage output is abysmall and eventually she'll whittle you down. After her, it should be pretty cake until Double Armadillo. Volf and Zed are annoying, but doable. Same with Alex2.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

566Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:40 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Royta/Raeng wrote:> horrid boss
Double Dragons isn't too bad, especially since you have Ninpo (I didn't on my OLBNN) and it was still doable. Worm is just UT spam, or you can use the Ninpo semi loop if you want with dual-kats but...eehhh just UT him.

Eli will be a problem. I know a few NUR runners that quit there. Your damage output is abysmall and eventually she'll whittle you down. After her, it should be pretty cake until Double Armadillo. Volf and Zed are annoying, but doable. Same with Alex2.

I was talking about quality, I know the Worm is easy but it's still a bad boss. And regarding Eli, IIRC there is a specific combo with the Scythe that is slow but has good reach. Should be available at level 1 too.

Double Dragons are bad because you also have to use the bow, with those small flying jerks spitting fireballs at you in the process, but I don't know how powerful Level 1 Piercing Void is. For Double Armadillo IS should be enough, right? Though the camera sucks during that fight.

567Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:11 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Well, restarted chapter 14 to grind ninpo and health against Dagra cai.

568Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:39 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Let’s gooooo beated him. On the god of war wannabe boss now.

569Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:42 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Let’s gooooo beated him. On the god of war wannabe boss now.

How did it go with the Scythe?

570Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:49 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Greatly. Mainly spammed X,X,Y. Am in the real final boss now and that stray works well as well.

571Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:58 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

The weird ass devil final boss is ass but easy luckily.

572Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:09 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Beat the game for the first time in like 8 years finally.

573Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:16 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:The weird ass devil final boss is ass but easy luckily.

A suggestion for future runs: use ground Y,Y with the Scythe (no full combo, just the first two hits). You can even no damage him that way, if you're careful.

574Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:32 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Mentor ain’t no joke. Love how they use tactical ninjas at the beginning since they are by far my favorite enemy in the game.

575Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:59 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
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Zapan wrote:
Omar73874928271728 wrote:The weird ass devil final boss is ass but easy luckily.

A suggestion for future runs: use ground Y,Y with the Scythe (no full combo, just the first two hits). You can even no damage him that way, if you're careful.

Against Vazdah? How does that work?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

576Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:15 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Royta/Raeng wrote:
Zapan wrote:
Omar73874928271728 wrote:The weird ass devil final boss is ass but easy luckily.

A suggestion for future runs: use ground Y,Y with the Scythe (no full combo, just the first two hits). You can even no damage him that way, if you're careful.

Against Vazdah? How does that work?

Well, that's the safest strategy I personally found in my first MN run, especially if you want to avoid his grab getting you while you're trying to land a longer combo, but I did manage to no damage him by using that and properly timed dodge i frames, especially against his slam combo attack (which can't be blocked IIRC). I also faced him directly, without moving to his side.

Admittedly, that was years ago, though. But, now that I think about it, I remember having almost no healing items, which is why I was super careful.

577Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:30 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
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For Vazdah I always just stick to his left arm.I found it easier to stay there and just jump over his laser. Ground pound dodging always sucks tho, I always mess that one up

https://stinger.actieforum.com

578Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:19 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Question, for mentor how do you usually get the weapons in order?

579Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:16 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
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The weapon locations don't change IIRC. So just the same as on Warrior/Normal.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

580Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:25 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Oh, so it’s master ninja that changes the locations then I assume? Not sure if I should ask the weapon spawns for that since I’m not there yet.

581Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:52 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Ninja gaiden 2 just gave me the greatest gaming moment in my life, during the section with the boozoka launchers on platforms in chapter 1, I got knocked down to a floor and tactical ninjas came running at me and beating me up, so I was in a panic and found something to take cover in but a boozoka guy with a MULTI ROCKET LAUNCHER was hiding there the entire time and blasted my ass. I was rofl.

582Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:33 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
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Was one of the original users
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Lived through the infamous "Mentally Challenged" Souls topic
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Ninja Gaiden II expert

Weapons are in the same locations on every difficulty, I think the items are the same too (not fully sure on that one).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

583Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:02 am

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

I got to the church in CH8, suggestions for dealing with IS ninjas?

584Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:18 am

Hyperfist/Malcar

Hyperfist/Malcar
B-Rank

Delimb all of them and then kill them one at the time. Use the pillars for cover against the shurikens.

585Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:10 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Beat chapter 1 in mentor and oh boy that was fun.

586Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:22 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Help, at chapter 2 rasetsu boss and I have no ninpo but a level 2 LS. What should I do?

587Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:46 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Help, at chapter 2 rasetsu boss and I have no ninpo but a level 2 LS. What should I do?

Try 360Y UT. If there are enemies (don't remember if there are on Mentor), try using Guillotine Throw to smash them against a wall, and then use UT against him.

588Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:35 am

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Anyway, I got to Chapter 9 and I already started hating it. I mean, the very first section has multi rocket ninjas AND those damn medusas on water, so you have to find a hidden spot to shoot the ninjas, not to mention the medusas respawning.

This will be bad.

589Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:04 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Well, it ain’t gonna be fun on mentor that’s for sure.

590Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:25 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Well, it ain’t gonna be fun on mentor that’s for sure.

Not to mention having to spend minutes in the next section trying to destroy all medusas. And then the water section with multi rocket ninjas and fighting robots on water. God I hate this chapter. Fortunately, the next one will be epic.

591Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:10 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Question, what is the difference between white and regular ninjas?

592Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:13 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Question, what is the difference between white and regular ninjas?

What do you mean? White ninjas can also attack you with the bow anyway (you'll understand how obnoxious they can be once you start your MN run). Other than that, they should have the same melee attacks as regular ninjas from lower difficulties IIRC.

593Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:24 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Was mainly wondering since for some reason I didn’t really know how to approach them. Didn’t know they had bows tho.

594Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:25 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Like I knew, but I thought only certain types had it, not the default dude.

595Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:33 pm

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Was mainly wondering since for some reason I didn’t really know how to approach them. Didn’t know they had bows tho.

Not all of them do, but white ninjas armed with a bow can also attack you with the same melee attacks as regular white ninja. And bow ninjas are insanely accurate on MN. Fortunately, at least in some spots (e.g CH 2), you can despawn them or draw them to your location for an easier kill.

596Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:46 pm

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

Will say, I do think the camera sucks in this game if I am being truly honest. I think it has to do with there being no transparency. Not a deal breaker tho. But it can get really frustrating, I kind of wish it had a fixed camera at times, but that’s just me. A lock on on the other hand would be atrocious. All you have to look at is the new gow games, those games aren’t designed with lock on in mind and it shows. Yet people like cvit say it sucks, yet begs for it still?

597Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:04 am

ZestyTaf

ZestyTaf
D-Rank

>Camera
Rarely is it ever the game's fault over here in my playground. It never fucks me up unless _i_ make it fuck up. I'm sure with enough playtime, you'll know how to navigate it. New GoWs camera can suck huge dick when you're not taking care of it. You're in a hallway with a Draugr? Do NOT try pinning him to a wall for stun or whatever. Just fucks up the camera.

>Lock on
Turned it off in the settings THE MOMENT it fucked with me trying to grab once (a long time ago). Game's not designed for it. They added it in at the very last moment.

>Cvit
Love the guy, but his take on NG2 was bonkers. He, like others, wants every game to be stylish. But at the same time, his experience with the game is what ruined it. Man put the game in... idk, D, in his tier list? Criminal.

I really hope he gives it another visit. He hated stuff that takes the player out of the usual circle of play.
"Why would i use a bow in my action hack and slash game?"

Trying to be flashy gets you fucked. He played it on the 360, which says a lot on why he hated the performance to all hell. On Xbox One Fat, game runs like a horse.

>Lock on for NG
No, sire. No.

Edit: Today, i made it to chapter 12.
Chapter 11 was "fuck you. Try me" and i loved it.
These later chapters FUCK. The staircase of DOOM? The MOMENT i saw that, i remembered Royta's video. The best "oh boy" moment in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/@ExtremeGameplays1

598Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:25 am

Omar73874928271728


A-Rank

>camera
I think it has to do with the specific enemy encounter I’m in rn tbh.

>cvit
He’s funny, I watch them at times during the night to sleep faster, I just don’t think he’s the best when it comes to game design imo.

599Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:27 am

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Omar73874928271728 wrote:Will say, I do think the camera sucks in this game if I am being truly honest. I think it has to do with there being no transparency. Not a deal breaker tho. But it can get really frustrating, I kind of wish it had a fixed camera at times, but that’s just me. A lock on on the other hand would be atrocious. All you have to look at is the new gow games, those games aren’t designed with lock on in mind and it shows. Yet people like cvit say it sucks, yet begs for it still?

I disagree. The camera certainly could use some improvement, but most of the time it works well enough. That said, when it doesn't work it is indeed infuriating. A good example of that is Alma 1, fighting her is frustrating in part because of the camera not being able to properly adapt to how fast paced the battle is, as well as due to how her attacks work (on top of the arena being enclosed).

That said, I think it's pretty clear that Bayonetta, DMC, and GoW are all better than NG in that respect.

600Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 12 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:30 am

Zapan

Zapan
C-Rank

Zapan wrote:
Omar73874928271728 wrote:Will say, I do think the camera sucks in this game if I am being truly honest. I think it has to do with there being no transparency. Not a deal breaker tho. But it can get really frustrating, I kind of wish it had a fixed camera at times, but that’s just me. A lock on on the other hand would be atrocious. All you have to look at is the new gow games, those games aren’t designed with lock on in mind and it shows. Yet people like cvit say it sucks, yet begs for it still?

I disagree. The camera certainly could use some improvement, but most of the time it works well enough. That said, when it doesn't work it is indeed infuriating. A good example of that is Alma 1, fighting her is frustrating in part because of the camera not being able to properly adapt to how fast paced the battle is, as well as due to how her attacks work (on top of the arena being enclosed).

That said, I think it's pretty clear that Bayonetta, DMC, and GoW are all better than NG in that respect. I definitely never had any camera problem in those games at least

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