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Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion.

+14
AeternalSolitude
hebass
NiceNinja
TheFirmament1
CKR
Royta/Raeng
hedfone
RedShot
KSubzero1000
Nadster
Infinity_Divide
Birdman
Dark_Blood_NG
Gabriel Phelan Lucas
18 posters

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301Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:08 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I think it might just be an emphasis thing for style, nothing gameplay related. Though could be wrong. Don't have the 360 hooked up sadly, still waiting for the AV cables to arrive to hook it up on the CRT.

@RedShot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o34ZgIe-rp0
This is the only one I could find, it starts simple but it goes berserk pretty fast.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

302Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:31 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

That video isn't the Master Ninja version, but it's still entertaining. I'd like to watch the MN fight, but it doesn't seem to be present on Youtube, sadly.

303Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:59 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

You can delete patches on 360 so anyone could film it.

304Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:19 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

IIRC if you do that your save-games are voided, since they are linked to a specfic version.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

305Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:16 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

Ah ok. Still at least not lost to time.

306Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:12 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

I talked about my Sereis S controller dropping inputs, it was the A button when jumping with Ryu.
Well I found this, so this is just an issue with MS controllers now. Absolutely disgusting.
And no one really talking about it.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/is-xbox-elite-series-2%E2%80%99s-a-button-not-registering-when-lightly-pressed-a-qc-issue-or-a-design-issue.452353/

307Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:19 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I've heard a lot of issues regarding Elite's in the past, so that could definitely be the issue here. I've also had some issues with the Xbox One controller in the past, but I had a backup which worked fine thankfully.

Generally speaking it seems the Elite is absolutely ass. The issue you had with the Series S/X regular controller makes me afraid though, especially since nobody is talking about it..

https://stinger.actieforum.com

308Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:19 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

It is literally the same issue as the elites in that thread. The A button not registering on the side, or not hard enough. I guarantee they are the same button manufacturing for series S/X.
People with elites probably notice it and bitch because if you are going to spend $200 dollars on a controller, you probably are sensitive to that.

309Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:54 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Yeah I remember Iconoclast, the NG player, had a lot of issues with NGII since the Elite barely worked for that game. We tested it and it was like 50% of his directional inputs were lost. I still have no idea as to how they dare sell that controller as an option despite being so terrible.

Shame companies keep skimping on hardware.

My order of Xbox 360 AV got canceled sadly btw, so no CRT-NGII for me sadly. Haven't played the game in a bit now either. Need to get back to it. How's your TDS run going?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

310Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:00 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>TDS run
I am at the blood fish before the boss rush so almost done. The blood fish grabbed me like 8 times and I just turned it off ha, that is objectively bad. Also really not looking forward to Elizbet and Dagra, I think they are both trash fights.

The TDS is really bad in a lot of situations and it has a horrible UT. It is unfortunate the detection is so bad. Regular DS just doesn't connect fully on purple vangelfs almost ever.
An enemy has to be right there when he starts each phase or full wiff, essence wasted and there are 7 IS in your ass.
Where as a lunar or scythe almost never "fails".
Wish the TDS tracking was better, and ryu would teleport more to any enemy within like 20 feet but whatever. Game was clearly not finished so you have to take it how it is.

Whats great about weapon runs, you fully learn the weapons strength and weakness for every enemy and boss by the end, as frustrating as it can be sometimes. Very interesting.

311Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:51 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I really enjoyed my TDS run back then too, it's just a fun way of learning the weapon's strengths and weaknesses. Personally the Claw run was the lowpoint for me, as that weapon just doesn't bring enough interesting moves to the table to stay interesting for 14 chapters imo.

For Elizabet you can sort of loop her if you want, but personally I just used Flying Swallow and the typical punishes. Dagra Dai was a fucking nightmare though. I did get him on my first try IIRC, but I used a lot of heals.

The UT is a disaster, I usually just use the 360 version for style.

> Fish
You can use the gattleing gun if you wish, or just use the water-dodge to get to the end. Always hated those fish though.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

312Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:06 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>I really enjoyed my TDS run
Loved mine too. Ninjas, gajas, and van gelfs are really fun with it.
Also found out about 3/4ths of the way through that wind run counts as forward input for FS.
Now I under stand how people do some of the combos they do.


>Flying Swallow and the typical punishes

Yeah this is what bick did on his TDS run, but I hate how NG2 has like one way to fight a boss at best sometimes. Nothing else works. You try to punish after they wiff, they dodge or grab you or block.
They are just 90% of the time not able to be attacked.
Often feels like there is no rhyme or reason they were opened up, it is just that NG2 let you get some hits.
Then Dagra which is just an absolute lightning bukkake cluster fuck, even without his minions.
Yet they still felt the need to put in fiends during that fight.

For the most part, NGB bosses were sooooooo good.
It can't be stressed enough how much I enjoyed a lot of those fights.

I would rather fight NGB tanks and helicopters than most NG2 bosses.
What went wrong with 2?

313Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:21 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> bosses
Time, mostly. Itagaki noted in a later interview he felt the bosses were unfinished, especially Gigadeath. They were refined a bit more in NGS2 but also neutered as a result imo, losing any and all threat related to them. I think their biggest flaw is that they play like NG:B bosses, in NGII. They are very 'dodge until the opening comes' with the occasional Alma-shenanigan dodges. They don't use delimbs. They don't play into Ryu's increased speed or cancelability or his sped up UTs or ranged UTs. They are very cooky cutter basic. The only boss I like is Fiend Genshin since he really is that ninja-v-ninja fight we've been wanting. He's lightning fasts, teleports around in cool ways, has neat attacks, a grab whose speed depends on his health, just a lot of fun to fight.

I do really like the designs though, artistically speaking.

> Dagra Dai
In a sense I do like the boss for being this modern interpretation of classic NES clusterfucks. There's just so much shit thrown at you, enemies spawning, lightning, guy is barely touchable, he just teleports around. The boss is super, super jank. I fucking hate him though.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

314Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:25 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

Interesting stuff in this video.

315Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:04 pm

GN1


C-Rank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTno7HEuThY

Ninja Gaiden 2 progressed immensely in Xenia, still not perfect but performance is better than the actual 360 now! Might be even better with a faster PC (not sure what his specs are).

316Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:58 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Very surprised to see it being pushed so much farther, had always assumed emulation of that system would die out but it's going strong, which is great!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

317Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:24 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

I'm testing NG2 on Xenia. I've just reached chapter 11 (Warrior difficulty) and it's extremely satisfying to play. Framerate is good, it's certainly better than on Xbox 360 even without a beastly PC.

Going back to the game, NG2 is incredibly unique, even on Warrior. People say it's easy and almost brainless on the standard setting, but I don't agree with them. I can sort of understand if this claim is supported by JayTB123's experience, for example, but for the average player Warrior can be tricky at first. It's certainly a bit easier than Normal (NGB), but you have to multitask a lot more enemies and some Tests of Valor are definetely tougher than base Fiend Challenges. If you spam mindlessly against IS Ninjas or Gajas your life bar is gone, because they attack almost without stopping. The rate of aggression makes Warrior (NG2) much harder than Mentor (Sigma 2). Master Ninja (Sigma 2) is harder for the damage output but you can control enemies using a fraction of the focus you need in NG2.

These considerations might be banal, but the Master Collection has caused the spread of misinformation and the stupid whining about the purple mist, which is the last problem of Sigma 2.

By the way, you can play NG2 without title updates so you can experience the original staircase battle. I think a very strong processor could guarantee 60 fps on MN.

318Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:53 pm

GN1


C-Rank

RedShot nice observations - I will say that I felt NG2 warrior was a bit too easy, and definitely easier than NGB normal, but I've also started it after beating NGB on MN so take that as you will.

The enemies on warrior are aggressive, but their damage output is way too low I think, so maybe that's why it felt underwhelming.

Also glad to see more people realizing the purple mist is the least significant issue of NGS2 - I've only beat the first 2 chapters of NGS2 (on both warrior and mentor), and while it's still a good game, after playing NG2 it just feels off. IMO, the balancing is really odd if not outright bad.

In vanilla NG2, I don't enjoy fighting only certain types of enemies - and with the exception of mechs, what all of them have in common is too much HP, and that they cannot be delimbed. So while NGS2 enemies can be delimbed like in NG2, it takes way too much time, and with their added HP, it makes fights feeling longer and more tedious. The combat simply wasn't built for this, and it shows even on the first chapter. It really is a different game, that also loses what made NG2 what it is, unfinished nature and all.

Regarding Xenia - it's unusually GPU heavy for an emulator, but I'm also looking to try the unpatched version of NG2 on it for the staircase fight, gonna be fun.

319Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:03 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>NG2 warrior was a bit too easy, and definitely easier than NGB normal

I couldn't agree less, don't know why everyone says this.

First, you can only hold a few potions and a couple mushrooms that only fill 1 orb in ng2.
In NGB you can hold an UNGODLY amount of potions.
Grinding in NG2 is very time consuming and only possible in a couple places. In NGB you can reach max money in like 10 minutes with complete ease.
Other than a few NGB bosses there is nothing as fast and punishing as ng2.
The crabs skating guys on NGB normal DON'T have a grab, you can just stand there with block held in the sewers and parry. Again NG2 has a parry wiff animation, NGB doesn't, so it is completely free.
I could go on all day.
NGB normal is a serious joke. But I came from NG2 so that might be the disconnect.

320Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:36 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

@GN1

> enemies do low damage on Warrior
It's true, but a new player would be overwhelmed with a harsher treatment. If you have already played NGB on Master Ninja and Mission Mode, then the first experience with NG2 is a piece of cake.

> NG2 rarely mixes enemies
I think it's fine the way it is because almost every enemy has multiple moves in his arsenal and can play different roles during a battle. I would agree with you if enemies were more simplistic like in several action games, but NG2 does a good job in this department.
However I wouldn't be against a "Remixed Mode" with different spawns, it could elevate the game to a higher level. Survival missions accomplish this to some extent, though.

@hedfone

> economy in NGB and NG2
Without using too many UTs I have every weapon upgraded and maxed items in NG2. In NGB you can stock up more items, but you don't regenerate health after fights or thanks to statues.

> bosses
Some bosses are tough for a newcomer in NGB, while in NG2 you can use ninpo and UTs to bypass a lot of hurdles. In NG2 bosses have more erratic movements but their low health compensate this factor. This argument is valid just for Warrior, of course.

> I came from NG2 so that might be the disconnect.
Yeah, it's mainly a matter of order of play. I shouldn't have used the term "definitely", I don't find the standard setting in NGB much harder than in NG2. I have done multiple MN runs in Sigma 1 and NGB, three MN runs in Sigma 2 and many missions in these games, so when I say "I'm always full of items in NG2 on Warrior" it could be different for people who started with this game.

321Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:39 pm

GN1


C-Rank

@hedfone

The order of play could make a difference, but even then I'm sure NGB normal is more challenging than NG2 warrior, at least partially from the enemies lower damage output. Combine that with the fact NG2 enemies generally dodge and block less than NGB enemies - I feel it's simply easier and more forgiving than NGB normal, as even when they gang on you, they can be easy to deal with. Could always be just me though. If they did more damage maybe it could be the other way around? Can't really say.

I will also note I never used ninpo in NGB - at first because I didn't know how to activate it, and when I beat normal I just kept playing till MN without Ninpo as I always felt I can beat it without using Ninpo (also did more than 26 missions on mission mode at MN difficulty and never used Ninpo there as well).

I also always restricted my UT spam and healing items usage, so I never came close to using all of my Items at any given situation (even at Alma fights when I was so close to killing her). in NG2 warrior, I passed entire chapters without healing outside of save statues, and also never Ninpo on that difficulty as well.

@RedShot

I don't think I said NG2 rarely mixes enemies, so maybe you confused me with someone else? I mean it doesn't remix fights the same way as NGB of course, but still quite a few fights have different enemy composition on each difficulty.

322Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:27 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I think it's really hard to judge. NG04 was absolutely crushingly difficult when it came out for many players, but I find it really hard to look at that game as difficult since I have such an instinctive understanding of how Ryu moves now and how these games are meant to be played.

I mean, NGS2 nearly broke me on Warrior when I first picked it up since I really didn't "get" how to play this game. So your mileage might vary. NGII later on Warrior also kicked my ass a few times for being overconfident ("huhuh I beat NGS2 on Master Ninja let me style around wait why am I dying").

My wife played both and she's a pretty terrible gamer, and she 'beat' NGB on Ninja Dog (I helped her out here and there). She didn't get through Chapter 1 on Acolyte of NGII though, far too chaotic and made her panic.

That said, on the flip side, I know a lot of users that managed to 'mash' their way through NGII but never on NGB. NGB's random ass bosses punished that hard, while in NGII you could basically just facetank if you had the items and spam X. I've seen it happen. There was this wacky guy on the subreddit a few months back who kept bragging NGII was piss easy, showing him mashing bosses to death on Warrior.

> MC caused spread of misinformation
It was always there sadly. I didn't pick up NGII until I saw M0aninR0nin's video comparison, until that point due to all the comments on the internet I thought the only difference between NGII and NGS2 was "more gore" and "more lag" and "no online". This has been going on for like a decade now, it just resurfaced again.

> NGII enemy remix
It's imo the biggest flaw of the game. It's too stuck in "this is ninja town" and "this is fiend city", instead of mixing Van Gelfs with IS ninjas or something funky like that. I really would've liked to see them go further with this. They also still don't do this in Mission Mode for the most part which really made me scratch my head.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

323Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:06 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

I always thought NG2 on Normal was WAY harder than NGB normal. My first playthrough I legit got stuck on chapter 11. NGB I didn’t get stuck until VH at the ice caves. I suck at the games but that’s my experience.

324Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:02 pm

GN1


C-Rank

Seeing all the answers here it seems it's a really personal thing. Perhaps NG2 clicked even faster than NGB for me. I know many people really struggled when they started mentor, but for me, from the very first fight it simply clicked for me, and I already knew how I should use my delimbs and OTs etc..  It became clear to me after ch11 on warrior.

I died a lot of course, but that was also due to not using healing items mid fights (except for ToVs) and not using ninpo (except for CH6's ToV and CH11 Rasetsu fight) while also limiting my UT usage. Paid off when I started MN.

Raeng

I agree with you on this, it's a missed opportunity that we didn't see more remixed fights with fiends and ninjas, and also different groups of fiends together. Either way I'm still at chapter 10 on MN, and already planning to do all 8 weapon run achievements on fresh MN run, but yeah more remixed fights would have been awesome. I just meant that quite a few fights on MN have different enemy compositions in comparison with mentor (and by extension warrior of course) even if not to the same degree of NGB.

@Infinity_Divide

Do you still play them?

325Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:12 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

Not in a while. I messed around with the master collection a bit but I stopped because I’d rather just go back to the originals. I’ll go back to NG2 eventually(I think I’ve watched the game more than I’ve played it at this point).

326Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:46 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

@GN1 I highly recommend the single-weapon runs. They are very fun and are what keep me coming back to the game. With NGS2 modding coming along, it might be possible to slowly get the dream-NGII.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

327Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:59 pm

GN1


C-Rank

Raeng

Oh yeah I definitely gonna do all 8 of them on frsh MN runs, I just need to beat my first MN run first haha.

NGS2 modding - It's far better than expected, but I can't imagine getting the NG2 experience in regards to the inner-workings of it - delimb chances etc... but who knows?

On an unrelated note - What's your opinion of NGB bosses?

328Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:28 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

IIRC the modding has already restored the delimbvalues, the later videos have them completely nailed. Maybe they were still in the code. I'm not sure.

> MNM runs
Might want to try them on NG+, allows you to work towards a maxed file which is fun and allows you to start with maxed weapons. And...it gives you a bit of leeway with Ninpo/Items to skip the more boring fights like Gigadeath.

> NGB bosses
This will depend on who you ask, but personally NG never had good bosses, in terms of mechanics. There's a few cool ones, and the music and presentation in them is fantastic. Awakened Alma, Doku, Murai, just classics in terms of presentation. Mechanically though, eh.
They are either way too focused on the randomization part with a single real opening that people either learned to manipulate (like Murai's roll punish) or work around (like just spamming FS against Alma). Doku for example is just...weird. Attacks randomly bounce, so you generally just attack him during his animations to avoid this i.e. use an UT during his shockwave etc. They aren't that...fluid of a boss if you get me. I think what keeps them interesting in Black is that they have allies helping them out, which adds to the chaos/randomized etc.

I think the one boss that really encapsulated NG, it is Fiend Genshin in NGII. He's fast, dodges random but his punishes are a teleport into a dodgable punish, he's always on the move, so are you. It's like a dance. I love that. Murai also has that a bit, but his punishes are a bit rough and he's too easy to abuse after his roll.

That said, mechanically speaking...there aren't that many great bosses out there, period. This isn't a problem unique to NG.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

329Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:34 pm

GN1


C-Rank

Great to know about NGS2! Really excited to see more of it.

NG2 MN weapon runs - I love the extreme challenge of minimizing UT and Ninpo, trying to heal only at save points etc... I did Gigadeath without ninpo or healing on MN... frustrating as fuck, don't think I will do it again.

NG Bosses - Perhaps it's just because I love the game so much, but while I can't argue that most bosses don't really let you use mechanics such as wind path, shurikens to stun them etc...
I enjoy them a lot for how they feel random but fair at the same time (I enjoy replaying the Alma fights a lot), with the randomization and added mobs adding replay value. They always keep me on my toes, and I did find Ishtaors, Both Dokus and Fiend Murai very fun to replay (also regular Murai on VH/MN CH1), and not just because of the awesome presentation.

I also agree about Fiend Genshin being very fun to fight, despite being antithetical to NG2's combat design. My favorite boss of NG2.

However, my favorite boss in the series (didn't beat NGS2 and 3RE yet), and one that I think is also mechanically great is clone Ryu - lets you use all of your tools and can provide a very back and forth duel (as long as you don't cheese it of course).
What do you think of it? And what bosses are great in your opinion from a mechanical standpoint?

330Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:42 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> MN runs
Yeah it's mostly that, it's great to challenge yourself, but some of those fights I really just don't care for challenge-running again haha. The thought of doing Gigadeath 8 more times makes me want to reconsider existence.

> NG bosses
Yeah the random mobs keep them interesting, and I don't actively dislike them. There's more to a boss than mechanics, Awakened Alma is just pure pressure and epic-scale, I love it. Just objectively, if you ask me, I don't think they are really good. Subjectively, I enjoy most of them. Fiend Murai, Emperor, Spirit Doku etc. are the ones I don't enjoy.

> Clone Ryu
I never saw him as a boss for whatever reason, so he always slips my mind, but by far the best yeah. Fantastic enemy and I love how he also 'teaches' you how to play.

> what bosses are great mechanically
You mean, as in general?

I think Noah Prime from Astral Chain is up there for me as one of the genre's best. I love rival fights like Vergil in DMC3 and Jeanne in Bayonetta, but generally speaking mechanically they aren't that complex. Vergil has some funky openings, but generally it is "wait until finished, punish hard". Fiend Genshin is cool as noted, Fiend Ryu. I always loved Meta Ridley in Metroid Prime but that's more 'cool factor'.

But yeah probably Noah Prime. He's great since mechanically everything works. You can use items, you can use the 'free cutting' on him, your shield works, status works, parry works - it all just works but he's still extremely threatening and agressive, with numerous forms and attacks that force you to use every tool that you have. Fantastic fight.

Another would probably be the final boss in Vanquish. What about you?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

331Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:23 am

GN1


C-Rank

Well I haven't played enough good action games yet (due to trying too many things and not committing to anything), and I have played the God of War games 9-10 years ago so I don't recall much about them.

Nice to hear about Astral Chain, I will wait for Switch emulation to progress even further.

IIRC I enjoyed the last boss of Metroid Prime due to how it requires you to use switch visors mid fight and perhaps also use the morph ball? I don't recall much about it (The Metroid Prime herself IIRC?) so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

NGB bosses - Now that you put it like that it becomes clear to me why I love NGB bosses so much. I do enjoy fighting Fiend Murai, and it's fun wracking him with the UF. agreed about Awakened Alma, Ishtaros is also great.

Clone Ryu as already noted (perfection IMO), Fiend Genshin is really fun but I just feel disappointed by NG2 bosses not playing to the strengths of the game.

In Bayonetta I only played up to the 2nd chapter, but I enjoyed the Jeanne fight a lot, it feels like a dynamic duel that lets me dial combos while rewarding my dodge offset usage.

I also enjoyed Monsoon in MGR, and the boss in the first chapter (forgot her name, but I remember geckos in that fight). Haven't played beyond Monsoon though - How is senator Armstrong fight?

PoPWW- only played for like 2 hours or so, but I enjoyed the 2 Shahdee fights. They are fun duels that let you use your toolset, and I just enjoy counter attacks in that game.

The final boss of Vanquish is the 2 dudes in the flying suits? If so I recall enjoying it, but I played it at 60fps (which breaks some things as you told me before). Didn't play God Hard yet.

332Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It's tempting to jump from title to title, these games really shine better when you put time into them though. Maybe put a limit on how many you play per year / month or w/e, space it out a bit, before you burn yourself out.

> MGR:R
Forgot about that one strangely enough, fantastic game with great bosses.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

333Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:58 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

These two playlists are from Gigue who is one of the most skillful experts of NG, but he doesn't upload on YouTube very often so many players don't know him. If you create an account on that site you can watch videos in high definition.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1zb411t7ze?p=1

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1wb411h71a?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0

334Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:52 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Gigue is the player that convinced me to play NGII. His clips were in a wacky DMC/GoW/NG style-video and seeing him just absolutely blast through the game showed me there was potential. He was also the one who played NG3-vanilla on a pretty high level.

Shame he never uploaded to YT or was re-uploaded there by players like TMKO.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

335Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:21 pm

TrunkyDunker


D-Rank

@GN1 I am new to this site, I love NG2. I don't understand at all how you have had such an easy time with Warrior for NG2. I am not the best, but that game is insane. I agree with @hedfone and @Infinity_Divide, do you have any footage of you playing? I would love nothing more than to see you play.

336Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:14 pm

GN1


C-Rank

WaitingForKaty wrote:@GN1 I am new to this site, I love NG2. I don't understand at all how you have had such an easy time with Warrior for NG2. I am not the best, but that game is insane. I agree with @hedfone and @Infinity_Divide, do you have any footage of you playing? I would love nothing more than to see you play.

I started NG2 after beating NGB and some of the missions on master ninja so there's that for starters.

Aside from that, I simply think NG2 on warrior is more forgiving, due to the enemies' low damage output. The only points that I got stuck on for a bit were water fights, double armadillo fight, water dragon, and the start of ch8 with the RL ninjas (which went smooth after I figured how to deal with them). CH11 was also challenging of course. I truly feel NG2 warrior is easier and friendlier to mashing than NGB normal, but that is also subjective of course.

I don't have any footage of me playing on warrior or mentor, but I did capture some footage of the CH8 church fight on MN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-xjsuUJgpI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxmjUoEVCg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAT8xW24h7A

337Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:26 pm

TrunkyDunker


D-Rank

@GN1

Damn that is very impressive. My discord is WaitingForKaty#8827, if you want to chat NG2 or other games, I don't have a mic though. Just text for now.

338Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:51 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It's a matter of practice, and getting familiar with how enemies function off-screen. After a lot of practice you can sort of gauge how enemies will act before they do so and play into it. Idem for positioning, prioritizing etc. Which attack to use when and why becoming second nature instead of having to think about it actively. When you start on Warrior for the first time it all is pretty daunting. But once you beat Master Ninja a few times it seriously gets easier. Practice makes perfect! Or in this case, practice makes you die a bit less haha.

Also welcome to the site :)

PS: the church fight is so much fun

https://stinger.actieforum.com

339Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:43 pm

GN1


C-Rank

@Raeng

Going through church fight footage of mine I think I noticed something interesting regarding when being tagged by IS is causing damage and stagger mid attack (not iframed attacks): If I was being tagged during a light attack, it didn't cause any stagger or damage, and I was able to continue my combo without interruption.

However, if I was being tagged during a heavy attack, Ryu takes damage for being tagged and staggers.

In both cases I'm only taking about being tagged, not about impact explosion when ever an IS hits the ground or a wall.

Is this observation correct? Is there more to it? Or did I actually miss something?

340Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:22 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

If I'm understanding this correctly: this is just i.frames playing their part. Heavy attacks mostly don't have i.frames in their animations, while most light strings actually have quite a few frames in the middle of their animation. You can get tagged at that time, since you're still 'physically' active, but you won't take damage or get a stagger animation.

Explosions tend to still hit you since the i.frames are pretty short in those attacks, while the explosion lasts a tad longer IIRC. We'd have to do a full frame-breakdown of the game (which we can't really do) to be sure ofc.

But this is generally why it's so safe to go on the offensive in NGII, since a lot of your attacks have hidden i.frames in them.

Please let me know if I misunderstood your question!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

341Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:28 am

GN1


C-Rank

I think you definitely understood my question and gave a well informed answer, I was a tad worried I might have not explained myself very well.

The vid I was taking about was church fight with level 3 DS. I tried XXY>Y a few times - at one time I was tagged during the XX part of the string and received no damage or stagger.

At a different time, I got tagged during the Y part (before the iframed >Y), and got staggered and lost some health. a simple XX with the DS has iframes in it?

342Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:31 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I know that lower-strings have i.frames. For example the first X of the DS has very minor i.frames mid-swing. This isn't new, NG(B) also had this. It was one of the reason so many players liked the lunar without really knowing why, as a lot of its moves (including its running attacks) had minor i.frames inside. The frames are very minor though as noted, you won't be able to have attacks phase through you as their lasting hurtbox outpaces your i.frames. But against projectiles which are a one-and-done deal, it's great.

I think they added these i.frames because in testing the combat slowed down too much with all the machinegun fire and shurikens in NGB. But that's just my guess.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

343Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:04 pm

Malcar

Malcar
C-Rank

Replayed MN on NG+ and have a few questions.
-Do counters only work if you do them before an attack is incoming? I swear I pressed it after an attack and sometimes it worked. Could be wrong.
-How to deal with the Drunken Skelly? It seems like he can attack whenever it wants regardless of recovery. You can stunlock him with the Kusari but you still have to deal with the bugs/Gajas on Mission Mode.
-If you dash after a guard break you get a special, flashy dash. Does it do anything aside from the different visuals?
-Is there any feasable way to do the staircase fight without Ninpo and UTs? I wanted to do it but there are just too many enemies. Even delimibing them to corrupt the spawn pools is hard as fuck when there are a billion of them.
-Is there a way to get into Izuna Drop with the Flails from Piercing Mountain?
-How to deal with the Mech Gelfs aside from Scythe UT and Tonfa UT? They hit like a truck, are hard to stagger and delimb aside from those two UTs.

Played around with the Flails more and I love them. Some pretty powerful moves there. The 360Y is pretty good, which I didn't expect. Piercing Mountain is the most insane move in the game and a proof that Ryu is secretly as much as a showoff as Dante, he just hides it. Wished it did more damage, most of the time it just delimbs once. There are also like 10 ways to combo into it, which is great.
Also tried the Kusari and it's very hard to use, but probably the coolest if you know what you're doing. I only need to try the BOTA and the Tonfas now, they seem more intimidating for whatever reason.
Revalued the TDS. Thought it was boring at first but it's the smoothest weapon in the game. Lots of cancels and movement options.

344Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:08 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability!

> counters
There's a time before and after, it depends a bit on the attack. For example the 'flipgrab' of white-ninjas have a very active counter-box so to speak before the grab becomes active, allowing you to pre-emptively counter it. Other moves also have a pretty big counter-box/window/whateveryouwanttocallit afterwards.

> drunken skelly
There's a few methods:
- UT spam, using the essence from the bugs/gajas you can lock him down pretty badly.
- Dualkatana 360Y abuse is pretty effective
- kusarigama 360YYYY is pretty safe, as long as you keep the Gaja's offscreen or keep Skelly between you and them, they can't really do a lot.

Generally, learn to anticipate his pattern and what he can cancel into what (he has a few pretty nifty cancels into that kick of his. Also, dodge TOWARDS him. A lot of his ranged attacks arc upwards (like the rock kick). If you dodge backwards or to the side you'll get clipped. It's also a pretty big fight in terms of positioning. If he ever puts distance between you, you're basically done for.

It also helps to learn the inferno-method. Basically if you start casting Inferno the second he starts to tumble, it'll hit him with a critical. It seems to be a bug, but this deals like 60% damage to him.

> bluedash
Just a fancy visual.

> Piercing Izuna
Yes, and no. Technically you can do Piercing Mountain into shuriken into XXY iirc, but you have to be near a wall otherwise he gets out of range.

> staircase without ninpo / UT
I sorta 'did' it once on a NG+ file on 360, though you can substitute 'no UT' for 'a few level 1 UTs' haha and I used a two healing items. You can view the fight here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB9NfMYoebQ&lc=Ugxiao5sqdMqNx9jPs14AaABAg

Looking at it now I still have a lot of room to improve here, but the video is over 3 years old at this point so I've learned a lot since then. On the other hand, it's still solid gameplay imo and really...the staircase is so epic when the Xbox is melting like holy shit it just looks so insane and cool haha.

I think I could do it better today if I just grinded it out. The general things that help is IS usage and wall-attacks when IS'd for i.frames. Sometimes you'll see me use AoE attacks while angeling the camera away to get as many delimbs as possible, like with >XXX.

As you noted you CAN use the delimb tactic but that tactic honestly lives or dies in the first few seconds of the fight. If you cannot get the key delimbs off you're dead before you can seperate them.

(note: at the end I kinda go ham though haha, I always love just throwing out UTs and other massive attacks in that final wave)

> metal gelfs
I always locked them down, they technically cannot damage you in close range since you can guard-reset their entire string and they tend to slot, meaning they won't attack together. For a punish I tend to use either >Y with the flails or talons, or Tonfa sometimes. YYY with DS works too or any other three-hitter.

These days I kinda just skip them with Ninpo, don't feel they are worth my time haha.

> flails
My personal favourite, paired with the TDS. Flails just has such fantastic mobility while Piercing Mountain is just...wow. XXYY is my favourite though, the decapitation% on that is just beautiful. Fun fact: Ryu states in the description that "it's okay" haha.

> kusarigama
It's a weapon that requires a lot more thought imo, but plays wonderfully. It's a tad slower, OT's are a lot more unsafe, but it has a ton of great other options. Fun note: grounded enemies are OHKO grabbed by hit, so you can use On-landing-X for example to knock enemies down and cancel into a ranged grab for a sweet insta-kill.

> TDS
JUP! It really is the flow weapon, maybe even moreso than the tonfa somehow. It isn't the best, but I like how it has a bit of everything.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

345Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:59 pm

Malcar

Malcar
C-Rank

Thanks man, appreciate the help. Already applied some of these tips. Didn't know that Kusari on landing XX was a grab, pretty cool.

>but you have to be near a wall otherwise he gets out of range
Have to try this. It feels like it should be possible.

346Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:42 pm

Malcar

Malcar
C-Rank

Managed to beat M13 on Master Ninja (100 fiends in the sewers) after hours of attempts. I had like a pixel of health remaining, good stuff.  The number's fitting since it feels fucking cursed, at least now I rarely whiff my Guillottine Throws ahahah.

347Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:15 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It's peak NGII that one, the others I never liked as much but that one is solid gold. Love the usage of the fan as well, it's a great enviromental that you can use but also can be used against you.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

348Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:34 pm

Malcar

Malcar
C-Rank

>fan
It seems inconsistent, but yeah it's pretty fun (except when the archers snipe you in the air and push you into it deleting half of your healthbar).

Managed to patch the game again to get past the crash in CH12, even though there aren't that many fun fights in that part. Also tried the new upscaling Xenia does. Much better than whatever resolution NG2 had on the 360.
Tried the BOTA more seriously and I'm not sure where I stand on that one. It's pretty satisfying to use and very brutal, but a lot of combos end with a decap, making them a bit too omogenous. It also has a boring FS, wall attacks and running attacks, nothing too crazy. Might use it a bit more before finally trying to study the Tonfa more.

EDIT: All right, used the BOTA more and it's pretty neat. Would be completely unusable if it weren't for 360Y, but it's pretty strong against ninjas. Air combo into FS is pretty nuts, didn't know this game had pause combos.

349Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 7 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:25 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> dual kats
There's some good moves, lot of it is slow though. X>XX / >XXX are good AoE moves that I used a lot, same with running XX. Running YY is a good cancel into OT and has high delimb.

The key to the weapon though imo, aside from 360Y ofc, is the aerial juggle into pause FS into IS into falling YY. It's such a brutal combo that's great against hordes. The FS usually delimbs or vivisects, the followup IS shower the idiots down below and the YY spreads them around and creates space. Also Hold>Y is just insanely strong.

It's a weapon that I initially disliked, hence it was my first one to use in a single run to learn it more. It has a lot more nuance than I gave it initially credit for, so it might also grow on you.

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