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Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion.

+14
AeternalSolitude
hebass
NiceNinja
TheFirmament1
CKR
Royta/Raeng
hedfone
RedShot
KSubzero1000
Nadster
Infinity_Divide
Birdman
Dark_Blood_NG
Gabriel Phelan Lucas
18 posters

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251Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:41 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

No problem! It's hard to find people to talk shop with about NGII so I'm always happy to discuss it!


> ghost train
His name is, ironically, Gigadeath. Nobody likes him. Me and some others were doing some pure data analysis if a single segment Master Ninja was possible and this boss was just one of the 'run killers'. He can just kill you outright, especially in base NGII where's an even more broken mess. The things he can do on Master Ninja are ridiculous haha.

> ranged emphasis
You'll learn how to counter this eventualy, but enemies like to wittle you down from afar before nuking you upclose.

> giant bosses
Nope, they were added in an effort to get more God of War fans iirc to play the games.

> dog with hand cutscene
I've looked around but, didn't see it o_O Could you find it? I have no clue what you're talking about!

> xbox one x
Might be wise to save for a Series X if you were thinking of entering the next-gen. Note that the Xbox One S, Xbox One Regular and Xbox Series S all cannot play NGII on max settings (god those names are annoying).

> changes
My biggest favourite one is just the hordes. In NGS2 it felt really controlled, but in NGII it is mayhem. You really feel like a master ninja if you survive some of the more bonkers fights.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

252Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:31 pm

hebass


C-Rank

> Gigadeath
lol can’t wait. Oh yah, he electrocutes when near, I don’t remember him doing that in NGS2.

> Dog with hand in mouth
When you first descend to the first actual village building next to a big bridge, there is a Muramasa shop. It’s very early in chapter 2. A cutscene plays with a dog walking around the building. Man, I hope I didn’t see this wrong lol.

> Dumb Xbox names
I agree here. Why did they think this was ok? I appreciate the delineation...and the Xbox One X hasn’t been available for awhile. The weird thing is I tried to buy one a few months back when the announced end of production, but I missed the boat. Will look into the new one a bit more. I do want to have Rare Replay one day, so I have more that one reason I suppose.

> Hordes
I can tell already. Most of the times, things are fine, but every once in awhile I get hit many times at I once and I’ve lost 75% of my health lol. It’s a different feeling than in NGS2, where it feels more well understood happened. I know there are less enemies at once usually...but the enemies seem dialed back in terms of group attack in NGS2. Much damage, but one one at a time will come at you. They do that here too, but it seems like sometimes all bets are off and they all take rapid attack turns. I have to play more to get a true sense of what’s happening though.

253Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:57 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Ninja Gaiden Black used a pretty exploitable code for the enemy AI, in that one enemy would always be 'offensive' and one 'ranged' while the rest would circle you mostly. In 2 they made the limiter on that a lot higher, resulting in...basically a monsterous rush all around you. Enemies still don't all attack at once, but the genius little trick is that enemy agression is lowered if you attack and a ton of your regular attack combos have i.frames in them (like XXY), if even a little. It really pushes that hype.

> dog walking around the building cutscene
I'm...absolutely not having a single clue what you're talking about hahahahahah

> damage
One tip I got early on from an NGII vet was "NGII is about dying slower than your enemies, getting hurt is part of the fun". When you keep that in mind, the fun will only increase. You have a regenerating healthbar (for the most part), so that helps a lot!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

254Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:29 am

hebass


C-Rank

That makes sense! Sometimes I go a little defensive to get a counter...I find that fun to throw in there...that's probably when I get jumped lol.

> Dog/hand
Man, I wonder if it's only on Warrior mode haha. So it looked like a 'dead for a long time' hand in a zombie dog mouth...it's like before you can even go to the first Muramasa shop in Chapter 2.
I found a link to it haha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1GjdB622y4&ab_channel=TempestWay&t=7m55s It is super short, maybe that's why.

>Regenerating
Good tip, I have found that I've almost died multiple times, but it's recoverable! Very fun, I like :)

255Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Wow, I really don't remember that cutscene. Sweet! Warrior Mode is a really long time ago for me, I don't think that scene is there on other settings.

I should add that I really like how you can sort of manipulate Essence drops, but not fully. I think if this game had the Doom Eternal route, i.e. doing this type of kill yields that type of orb, the game flow would be too set in stone. What do you think?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

256Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:52 pm

hebass


C-Rank

> Essence
You know, I did notice that blue essence seems to drop more often when I'm missing health, but not all the time. It's kind of fun to "hope" a blue essence drops, so I'm not sure I'd want to just automatically get one if I did something in a specific way. Part of the fun is "holding on" until the battle is complete or luckily finding a blue essence mid-battle. Heck even when they do drop, I sometimes think "I can make it through the rest of this battle before it disappears", so that I can extend my total HP bar afterwards. But when I try that in this game sometimes, more enemies appear just when I think it's over :) I know I'll start to learn how many enemies at each location will spawn, but right now I have no clue sometimes. Or you can scrap all of that and absorb it for an instant UT if that is your desire.

In short, I think I like it the way it is also!

But, now that you mention that you can sort of manipulate essence drops...do you mean you can make red/blue essence appear by _not_ killing with an ET, UT, or OT, or is there some other way to manipulate things?

257Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:43 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Circumstances have brought me an XBONE, and as such, it has become an NGII machine. And my god it is so much better than playing on 360. I don't even know what to say.
Anyways, I'm on Mentor already and managed to beat the Rasetsu fight in Chapter 1 my first try without items or Ninpo. It's just feeling really good to play, so I'm gonna attempt all the Tov's on Mentor (something I couldn't accomplish before) and then MN.

258Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:07 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Yeah it is absolutely insane how much better the game runs on the system. Do you also notice a weird increase in loading times though for the mission-mode DLC? I always wondered if something weird is going on there.

Might play it again too myself. In the mood for some slicing.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

259Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:13 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

I still don't own Mission mode. I just use my physical copy of the game. Was planning on buying the DLC after I do MN. The one difference I've noticed is I can no longer effectively escape grabs through mashing. Maybe it's imagined, but I could've swore I could escape some way quicker then I can now. You ever noticed this?

260Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:54 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Note that the disc is only used in the Xbox One to check if you have the license, it isn't used to read any data anymore. It is just installed on your harddrive.

> DLC
Fantastic addition imo, should've been part of the core game but alas. Costumes are fun too.

> grab escape
Can't say I've noticed, only the Gajia grab perhaps but that could just be my imagination. That said, I don't get grabbed a lot by the escapable ones.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

261Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:10 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

-DLC
Yeah I'll definitely pick it up at some point, but at this point my NG plate is still very much full haha.

-Grabs
Mostly noticed it with the dogs, seems I'm getting chewed on for ages when I get grabbed.

262Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:41 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Can't say I noticed it with the dogs...hmmm, strange!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

263Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:23 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

It’s time, boys and girls. I’ve put off playing this for far too long. I got sidetracked while going through Sigma 2, but recently got an Xbox and decided it was time to go head-first into this game. After the sad realization that the industry has mostly abandoned those of us who care about gameplay, I’ve taken to going all-out on my backlog, starting with the biggest game in the genre that I haven’t properly tried. The goal is to get to MN in under two weeks, hopefully I can make that happen with me having to work almost every day in December.

I’m on ch. 4, so haven’t made a lot of progress yet. I’m using the falcon’s talons a lot, since I almost exclusively used the DS during NGB. >Y is a lot of fun, and I never get tired of doing GTs. I’m trying to train myself to not just keep hitting buttons but be smarter about prioritizing and using certain mobility options. Roy’s vids have showed me quite a bit already. Playing this also made me realize how badly Sigma 2 ruined the economy of the game.

264Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:56 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2t4MBhGAg8

This video immediately came to mind for me for some reason. That's exactly how I felt while reading this haha.

> got an xbox
Xbox One X? Series X?

> it's time
Good to see you again here btw, feel like it's been a while, hope you're good man!

> get to MN in under two weeks
Don't rush it too badly. A decent run can cost you 10-20 hours, especially the first time through trying to figure out the 'bullshit sections' so to speak. Mentor is no sloutch either.

> talons
A fun move with them is >XXY as it leads to a 'grab' where you're i.framed. You can also do off-the-wall moves with them as they have obscene delimb%. Warrior is a good time to experiment since enemies don't hit that hard yet.

> dragon sword
The weapon is pretty dull at level 1 but at level 2 really becomes a beast of its own unlike what we saw in NG:B. Very unique weapon.

> economy
It's one of those things you won't notice until you get more into it. Essence is terrible in Sigma 2, especially on Master Ninja. Since you die in one hit there anyway, you can just OLUT away since buying healing items matters not. Here you're constantly thinking "should I do an UT? What if I need to buy a healing item? What if I need to buy some IS? Or upgrade a weapon?"

It is just such a fantastic economy system and also a good reason why I am happy NG+ doesn't allow you to carry over to the next difficulty. You have to start fresh.

> hitting buttons
Try and locate the instances where you do a whiffed GT, that 'panic GT' is a deathsentence later-on.

Have fun man and keep me posted!

EDIT: just to note, don't upgrade the Dragon Sword to level 3, level 2 is fine. Level 3 barely gives worthwhile moves, most are locked to level 4 which is a story event. Same goes for the Dual Katanas, keep those at level 2. ALso note that items from chests yield their value in essence if you already are maxed out. Handy if you memorized their location.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

265Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:45 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

On chapter 6. Ch3 and 4 are great. I almost always prefer fighting humanoids in my action games but those gargoyle guys are a lot of fun too. Throwing an incendiary shuriken at them and knocking them out of the air is fun, and I’m using them as practice for my enemy step(is that what it’s called in this?). For some reason I never realized arrows could delimb either. Part of me is scared to for UTs because I want to hoard money but I also need to practice my spacing and stuff.

I was pleased to find that >Y and >X worked well on the wolf guys in ch5(I’m bad with enemy names ha). Toned down my blocking against them since it seems like they’re more grab-heavy. Really try to stay at a mid-range and go in with attacks that close the gap. >XY I think it is, stabs and then knocks guys down right? Having good results with that too.

>got an Xbox
1X. Was surprised to see how much the price has dropped since last I looked.

>it’s been a while
It has, good to be here! Life has been uh...something...the last few months. I’m getting back into the swing of things.

>don’t rush
Oh I won’t, I just wanted a rough deadline but if I go over then it’s not big deal. Some of these chapters are longer than I remember them being and I know Mentor is going to beat me up pretty bad.

>XXY
Yes! That’s the other one I’ve been doing a lot. It seems that the talons have a lot of moves that re-position you in some way? Seems really useful.

>DS level 2
I upgraded it first chance I could, seems like a really strong all-around weapon? Inputs and stuff seem more consistent and reliable than in NGB, if that makes sense.

>Sigma 2 healing items
Yeah I was thinking that. I’ve heard a lot about OHKOs in S2 so it seems to just encourage UT spam even more.

>essence decision making in NG2
Yes, yes. This is the kind of stuff I love. Even on normal I’m always debating this because I want to save money haha.

>panic GT
Already catching myself doing this. Better to correct these bad habits early.

>keep you posted
I’ll probably post after every good bit of progress, especially since I’m sure I’ll have more questions.

>weapon upgrades
Good to know, what do you recommend for level 3 first?

266Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:08 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Glad to here you're at least getting back into the swing of things man. Hope it all gets better soon. And with NG, how can it not?

> Gargoyles
Van Gelfs will be the bane of existance later. Especially the golden variety. NGS2 has a 'black' version which is even more scary imo.

> chapters
Chapter 3 used to be the dealbreaker for me. Got stuck there on Mentor for a while and on Master Ninja it broke me. The sewer section is the only part in the game that still gives me PTSD. Chapter 6 is excellent. My favourite is 7, the Skyship Daedalous.

> arrows
A single charge arrow is a guaranteed delimb which is great. Note that the arrow UT has a delay to the charge, so you can actually use it to pull far away essence closeby if you want by just tapping it.

> Incendiary
A fun setup is to stick it to them and then do a delimb move like >Y with claws. An IS is an OHKO against enemies with a lost limb (as it has a guaranteed delimb, and 2 lost limbs = dead). You can do a ton of fun things with it.

> combos
XX>Y is also great as it leaps to walls, and then auto cancels into wall combos which is great stuff.

> dragon sword
Its key is how mobile it is. Double swallow is great, but >X is i.framed too for example. XXY>Y moves you about and has i.frames in some spaces too and its running attacks can be canceled into OTs. Very 'on the move' weapon.

> weapon upgrades
Generally I level most to level 2 first, with the Tonfa being upgraded last. The tonfa gains very little per level and is already monsterously good at level 1. I feel the Scythe, Flails and Lunar benefit the most. The latter since it gets the 'chains' part of its moveset.

> werewolves
Very agressive enemy that likes to hyper-armour through things. Attacking them from behind helps a lot.

> enemy step
It's called "Wind Path". To avoid confusion, Wind Run is the 'auto aim jump'. Try and ignore that latter one unless you need it. It can also lead to a lot of bad habits.

> UTs
What's fun is if you look for raw UT setups. The charge-time is very quick compared to NG:B, so you can for instance do XY with the dragon sword and then do a raw UT. A Wind Path on a ninja can also get a free charge as the headstomp staggers them pretty long.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

267Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:07 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Wind Run is great! I'd say it's the one move that made me finally understand NG. You just shouldn't mindlessly spam it or Ryu will carry you to unexpected and dangerous places.

@Infinity_Divide
Good luck on the runs! I feel like mentor is where most the painful learning takes place.

268Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:53 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

Chapter 9. Ch.7 was a blast, I stuck with the scythe the entire time aside from the boss. >Y, >X, the jump attacks, the amazing UT, what a fucking great weapon. Started playing around with arrow UTs, fun stuff. For some reason I’ve always felt weird about using walls and stuff to charge UTs but I was doing it against the mechs and just wrecked everything.

I love ch.8 too. Instead of using arrows on the rocket guys I just inched towards them, threw incendiary shurikens, and then did a scythe UT while they were stunned, it was pretty badass. What I said earlier about not pressing buttons was definitely important for the mech guys, because they just shred you if you mash. Learning the weapons and good habits, feels good.

>ch7 your favorite
I can see why, how much do compositions change on MN?

>arrow essence pull
Great tidbit, thanks!

>incendiary setups
What are some good setups for shurikens? Are they more or less moot against tanks?

>DS for mobility
Good to know, part of the allure of this game for me is the unique mobility. Yeah the double swallow is a great addition given the increased enemy counts.

>scythe, flails, and lunar
Scythe is considered the beginner weapon right? I upgraded it right away and it seems so insanely good.

>wind path free charge
Oh sweet. This game has so many possibilities.

>mentor painful learning
I’m ready. We all need some tough love haha.

269Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:57 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> scythe
It's a great weapon, easy to pick up and be decent with but like most in the game also has a ton of more advanced stuff. The Scythe-throw (wall Y) is a monsterously good move with pretty tight timing to chain into an OLUT. It has the best move in the game, at least aerial wise. I always felt the Kusarigama had a better aerial moveset, but this really just blows it out of the water imo after more playtime with the weapon. It's that spin move you do in the air.

Also has some of the highest damage moves, which is great against delimb-immune foes like Red Dragons.

> IS to stagger into UT
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

> ch7
It is one of the chapters that barely changes IIRC, it is always Tactical Ninjas up the ass at all times with cool music and fun hectic fights.

> IS
I like to do them in an aerial combo, so XYXXX-IS instead of ending with an izuna for example. Doing them in the air also works after a jump. Never do them standing I'd say, too dangerous.

> flails lunar scythe
Flails are just my personal favourite weapon so I always give that an upgrade. The hardest weapon to use is probably the Dual Katanas and Kusarigama, in the sense of high level play. Both have a ton of specific moves for very specific instances, and the former really lacks good delimb moves.

> wind path
Note that afterwards if you hold forward, you're immediately put into a 'running state'. So you can windpath and do an on-landing running attack like RunningXX with the Dragon Sword (great delimb move).

> Mentor
It's where the game really opens up. That said, the jump to Master Ninja is out of this world.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

270Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:22 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

Fuck, this game rules. Why have I taken so long to play it. The sheer number of good to great attacks is insane.

>high damage moves
I take it there are moves that are high damage but have a lower delimb%?

>tactical ninjas
Some of my favorite enemies so far, throwing them, sticking them IS, chopping off arms, etc. Such a blast.

>standing IS
Yeah it seems like a bad idea even on Normal, definitely won’t be attempting it as I move up in difficulty.

>katanas
I’ve been watching your run with them, really interesting stuff. It’ll be more interesting once I use them myself though ha.

>wind path to running attack
Nice! Does the little stagger afterwards work on every enemy type?

271Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:53 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It is such a golden game isn't it?

> delimb vs damage
Generally speaking, yes. Though there are some that have both. But for example, the BotA has very little delimb moves, but the ones it has are fantastic. XX>XY is a guaranteed decapitation (almost) which is an OHKO for example. But other moves rarely delimb.

> wind path
The stagger differs per enemy, some barely stagger from it, but it does force enemies into a 'you are behind me so i turn around' attack. Which is really handy.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

272Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:24 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Every now and again I rewatch this video (to take notes and what-not), and every time this Gaja fight blows me away!

https://youtu.be/QLJ5vXH5yb4?t=893


I'm on chapter 11 now (Mentor) and have completed all ToV's. An accomplishment for me as I gave up on most of them on my first run through Mentor. Honestly wasn't too bad after MN (which feels good).
I've kinda' been developing a playstyle of only using UT's when I'm on the back-foot. I know it doesn't score very high, and maybe it's the DMC in me, but I just wanna play with more combo's and cancels and shit. It's way more fun that way I find (even if any life expectancy disappears haha).


Anyway... I got a question for you Roy.
How do you do the thing where you cancel an air combo into a FS seemingly without forward momentum? I've seen it happen in videos and it seems like a useful repositioning tool, but so far I've been too stupid (big surprise right) to figure out how on my own.

273Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:09 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

If I think you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that's a unique combo to the Dual Katana's. You do XYXXX and then delay a bit and do Y. You can do a lot of funky stuff with it.

> score
The scoring system in NGII is super broken so don't worry too much about it. Most Karma runners get more Karma in chapter 1 than most players get in an entire playthrough. It is purely using single-hit UTs with the Kusarigama which gets old really fast.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

274Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:47 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Huh, coulda' swore I saw it done with the Dragon Sword as well... Guess I've been wasting my time haha. Good to know though. Gives me a good excuse to try to get competent at the Dual Katana's at least.

275Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:42 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

If you have footage of the TDS doing it, link me and I'll take a look, maybe I'm misunderstanding or misremembering :)

https://stinger.actieforum.com

276Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:21 pm

Dan.A

Dan.A
D-Rank

Ah NG2 and memories. It's been 5 years since I beat this, barely, on Master Ninja, but alas, I have some time and two chapters in on normal/Warrior (my save states have been loss to some abyss) and, gods, I'm rusty. It's still as incredible as it was years ago, but I'm also reminded why it's such a uniquely difficult game. Most difficult games, I feel, tend to have players think more defensively first and think offensive play leads to reckless decisions, but NG2 has never been like that. It's always about offense, but doing offense right and opportunistically, ruthlessly, and systemically where recklessness is because you miscalculated or misplayed. Good god, it's so good. But I'm so rusty and have forgotten how to do many of what I used to.

Currently reminding myself how to pull of those guillotine throws and on-landing UTs. And of course using the shurikens to cancel/slow enemies down before they get to you.

I think NGB will be my preferred game because it caters more towards my defensive styles of playing, but playing NG2 and nailing down those combos in the middle of the insanity is one of the most unrivaled, cathartic feelings I've ever had playing any game.

277Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:03 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Royta/Raeng wrote:If you have footage of the TDS doing it, link me and I'll take a look, maybe I'm misunderstanding or misremembering :)

Nah, you're not misunderstanding, I was just confused.
In the video I linked above, at 15:07, he does some sort of launcher into double FS, though I'm sure it's simply a combo I'm unfamiliar with. Otherwise I couldn't find anything. My bad... :)

278Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:04 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Oh that! That's just a combo yeah. That's X Y(hold) YYY. It ends in a flying swallow and then you can do a few more if you wish. Level 4 exclusive iirc.

> Dan
Fantastic to see you dive back in! As you note, NG:B is more defensive. But mind you, it's pretty interesting to go back to that title after getting good at NGII. The styles kind of intermix, it's pretty interesting!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

279Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:47 pm

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

Yeah sorry for the confusion. I don't know why I thought the TDS could do it too.

280Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:15 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Posted this on Reddit when asked about a tierlist for the weapons, thought it handy to back it up here in case anyone is interested. Note, just my opinion on the matter. Curious if others can agree :)

I'm mostly going to focus on the main weapons, as I find that the ranged weapons all have their unique uses but are more 'situational'. Of them though I still feel the regular Shuriken is the best.
Regarding the weapons, note that this is my take on them regarding the NGII variants, not NGS2. Also that C-tier is still absolutely great, just more situational:


SS
Tonfa


S
Scythe
Dragon Sword
Talons
Lunar


A
Kusari-gama


B
Flails


C
Dual Katana


Starting from the bottom, the Dual Katana is the weakest of the bunch due to its design. It is a damage weapon in a game where damage doesn't mean anything. The core of NGII is about delimbing foes, and it lacks any good delimb move that is tied to a quick button. While it has some great AoE moves like >XXX and running XX, or the instant decapitation move XX>XY, those are very situational. Its UT is fancy but is again mostly damage and low on delimb to the point that some regular enemies might even survive it if tagged. Its saving grace is its mobility, huge moveset and the double Y from walls and aerial moves which is a great sweep. Good weapon against multiple foes, but outclassed in nearly every category by others. Note that in NGS2 I rank it at nearly the top due to how much more important damage is there and that stagger was changed, making moves like YYYY much better in that game.


Flails are my personal favourite, it has some of the best moves in the game like XXYY which is a brutal decapitation move and a lot of fast running moves and quick strikes. It lacks oomph though and against heavier foes lacks punch like the giant Cyborgs. >Y might contend for the best singular move in the game though due to its speed, delimb percentage and damage output. Also has a very tiny movelist. Great counter though.


Kusari-gama, very hard to use weapon. Absolutely wrecks giant bosses with its 360YYYY due to it hitting multiple times. Its grabs are fantastic too as they are i.framed, making them great to escape IS that are stuck to your body. Paired with your own IS it becomes quite a potent OHKO tool as two delimbs means a kill. Has one of the best aerial moves in the game (XXY). Lacks potent ground strings that can be used safely without 'thinking'.


S-tier is harder to nail imo. Lots of great weapons that have a ton of strenghts and some weaknesses. Lunar has a great early game 360UT and jumping XY and standing XXY wreck shop and these three moves can carry the game alone. Rest of the moveset is excedingly mediocre though. XYYYY is an exception but locked behind level 3 and is only great against large groups and only if you can pull it off safely.


The Talons are fast and furious and have some great singular moves, but lack potent multi-enemy firepower. Sadly they are only in S-tier due to how insanely good its >Y is and how potent Swallow>Izuna is against the game. You can legit skip entire fights with it. Absolutely terrible UT. Considered it for A-tier instead, but its good tools are just *too* good.
Dragon Sword is just a great all round weapon. Can option-select some heavy attacks into an OT, great delimb options, running attacks, flying swallow is extremely mobile, great off the wall moves, good damage on its YYY string, XXY>Y is very mobile too. Just a fantastic weapon with no real downsides.


Scythe lacks a lot of strings, but it just wrecks shop. XXY alone can carry it to S-tier, but it also has the scythe-throw which deals monsterous delimb, while its UT is among the safest and best with its short animation not giving foes the time to shower you with IS. Its 'spin of doom' in the air is easily the best aerial move in the game. Safe, high damage, high delimb, just a monster move.


The Tonfa though... is just the best weapon in the game, hands down. For it has all of the things above that make a weapon stand out, except it has all of them as noted. It is fast. It can option-select heavies into OTs. It has a dash. It has fully i.framed attack combos like Dash > Swallow > Dash. It has the best UT in the game against regular enemies where a single charge is already a kill. It has great anti-boss attacks with >Y - >YY x 360Y melting bosses. Its Flying Swallow wrecks heads for an OHKO. It is just absolutely in a tier of its own. Some of its longer strings aren't really that useful I feel but you can even then still tinker with them due to the dash being a nice escape from them. Just a monster weapon.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

281Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:42 pm

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

Well, my goal of when to get to MN definitely didn’t happen. Work really crushes my hopes and dreams of clearing games. On the bright side, I am on Mentor, chapter 3. Can definitely see the difficulty bump so far, but thankfully I learned a decent bit last run so I haven’t had much trouble. Seeing the increased item and upgrade prices in the shop put a dumb grin on my face, gotta watch those UTs even more now.

Honestly, I don’t really enjoy the last few chapters. Chapter 11 is spectacular, but chapter 12 I didn’t enjoy much. 13 is good, but I find it to be soured by chapter 14. Maybe it’ll change as I get better, but I don’t like the boss fights much, with some being downright crap. On the flip side, core combat with most enemy types(ninjas) is just incredibly, unbelievably good. Some of the best core combat I’ve ever seen, without a doubt, and I’m just getting started(though I’ve watched a ton of Roy’s vids which is also a lot of fun).

282Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:07 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

The later chapters are among the weaker, though it helps to know what you can and cannot skip. Chapter 12 usually is just three boss fights for me to be honest. I skip the entire start until the Dual Armadillos. Then I fight a few Van Gelfs for fun, then skip everything until Zed. Then skip everything until Volf. Chapter 13 is pretty cool. Chapter 14 is mostly inventory management. The first fight is mostly Windmill Shuriken, the Centaurs are a bore I must admit.

> Bossfights
They are more fun when you know an optimal strategy for them or are confident enough to toy with 'em, early on they (especially Zed) can be super irritating I must admit.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

283Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:05 pm

Dan.A

Dan.A
D-Rank

My current progress is rediscovering old tactics (shuriken canceling and guillotine throws esp.), but I'm in chapter 9 and gradually getting less rusty. Sad that I haven't gotten to play this in years. Remembering all the enjoyment and the...well, not as enjoyable moments (Gigadeath is honestly a hilarious fight) is a joy. Chapter 7 especially is a barnburner. Though, it appears I forgot how to fight the mech units and IS ninjas well. Though I've enjoyed refighting some of the greater fiends, such as Alexei and Zedonius are particularly fun. Volf's hitboxes are, even years prior, still strange on his charge move or I just haven't found an answer yet.

>Roy on carryover back to NGB and NG2 weapon rankings

I'll bet, though the only copy of NG1 I know have is Sigma and I'm not the keenest on those Rachel sections even if I don't get frustrated playing games.

The good news is, even with all weapons, all have some utility and you have options and challenges based upon which ones you carry into certain fights. Some weapons and combos wreck shop (i.e. scythe air spins or UT), but it's always interesting to mix things up I've found. Unfortunately, always been very bad at using the Tonfas and can never piece together why.

>Infinity and NG2 bosses

That's some of the unfortunate tradeoff with NG2 in a vacuum, I've felt that NG2 has some of the most unrivaled combat in any game I've played, but you have to get through slogs to get there. Bosses in NG2 I think tend to be solid in the cases of Genshin and the GFs because you can normally kill them about as fast as they can you, but better players can show loops that some weapons put on them that can just nuke them. Of course, there are terrible ones (i.e. Gigadeath, the Tunnel Worm thing, etc.) that make you want to fall off a cliff into an unseen abyss. At the very least, glad you're enjoying the game!

284Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:31 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Jumped back into the game, midway through Russia now on my Claw run. Keep loving how there's always more to discover and toy with this game. Think this really is a game I'll just always come back to haha.

Do realize that I haven't really found a good punish for those flying robots yet. I can easily null their damage output with guard-resetting, but their actual weakness alludes me so far.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

285Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:09 pm

Dan.A

Dan.A
D-Rank

Very close to beating NG2 on Mentor. Going to take a bit of a prolonged break before tackling MN b/c I want a break. Thankfully, I never get that frustrated playing games, so returning to it later won't be an issue.

Can say without a doubt that what gives me the biggest trouble is Ch. 2, Gigadeath (Hilarious boss), Ch. 6 (mostly length between rest periods), Ch. 8 (Cannot ever figure out how to fight the dogs, some ambushes, etc.), Ch. 9 (that one massive lake fight; don't enjoy this chapter), Elizebet (figured out how to loop her and some other tactics in close), Ch. 11 (incredible chapter, but relentless action and the Rasetsu fight is maybe the hardest fight in the game), Centaurs + Volf (I'm just bad at it), Fiend Genshin + Elizebet double header, and Dagra Dai (bad at it; silly boss). The incendiary shuriken ninjas speak for themselves, but they're incredibly fun once you get them.

Made a lot of fun rediscoveries with this one, but also some reevaluations of some weapons (legitimately cannot believe how bad the tonfa melts some group fights). Still practicing some things a lot, but the last month replaying this off-and-on has been a treat.

286Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:40 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> taking a break
My advice here will be that, when you get back, do some mission-mode stuff to warm up again.

> ch2
Best chapter imo, but the intro is especially brutal with a long long long route to the save-dragon.

> dogs
The Scythe works well, but 360Y with the Lunar really wrecks them. Just do a jump and on-landing 360Y, a regular will do. It's i.framed and cannot be grabbed out of so you're safe from them, if there's essence it becomes the beefed up UT which is neat.

> Ch9
It's a pretty short chapter but that part is a big big big chore. You can sort of mitigate it with smart Ninpo usage since there's a refill chest, but it still is pretty bad yeah.

> dagra Dai
Very painful boss. There's a few methods to handleing him but regarldess he'll give you a hard time. You can use running Y canceled into a dash with the tonfa to keep up the pressure during his lightning strikes while using XX>XYYYY with the Claws to damage him while he's in the air.

> tonfa
Most broken ass weapon in the game haha

https://stinger.actieforum.com

287Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:32 am

Dan.A

Dan.A
D-Rank

Beat it. Also imposed a self-challenge w/o talisman of rebirth (albeit no trials). Zedonius (ch. 12) was a massive barrier due to his random AI and the arena/camera ruining most attempts. Otherwise, most challenges were in the respectively difficult chapters (11 in particular gave me constant struggles, but I had fun. Terrific chapter.)

>Mission Mode
Noted. I was considering replaying Mentor again too just to get me in the routine.

>Dogs
Did some playing around with the Lunar 360UT and it did me some good. Found some use of the tonfa or TDS also helped too. Still don't enjoy fighting them one bit.

>Dagra Dai
Basically used inferno ninpo and the air Y combos with the scythe (I figured out they were i-framed, something I didn't know) to get some good damage on him when he started shooting lightning as opposed to trying to avoid it. Silly boss.

Lovely game. Missed it so much, learned some things I didn't know before, but I'm not as good as I used to be and don't have the same time to do so.

288Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:28 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> Zed
He's one of the few random fights imo, he can absolutely maul you if he feels like it. Not only is one mistake a one-way ticket into a swimming pool of lava, he can constantly summon for help and hover in the air as he screws with your camera. Not sure what's going on with that fight tbh.

> dogs
Agreed, they aren't too interesting. I have that with most enemies that you cannot delimb either, they feel out of place.

> dagra dai
That's mostly the way most players try to handle him, but it's very RNG heavy and can lead to some disasterous fights haha. I think he's still my least favourite boss fight in gaming in general. I just really detest him. Especially since he has so much down-time.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

289Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:56 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Continuing on on my Claw run. At chapter 12 now.

Have to say while I like the weapon, it shines more as a support weapon for me. Too much jank going on for my taste and too slow for groups. It really is a great OHKO machine against the bigger threats, but against big swarms you're either praying your >X doesn't whiff or spamming 360Y. It also has three(!) long-hit+high damage strings (XXX>XXXX, XXXXXX, XXXYYYYY), no clue as to why.

Found out that after doing Vermillion Bird you apparently are immune to grabs for...quite a long time, probably an oversight. You can absolutely decimate Zedonius this way which is pretty funny.

It's ironically also pretty powerful against the Worms, who I've always hated. XX>XYYYY staggers nicely and can be followed by two seperate FS's for a kill.

Looking forward to this run to end and starting my Kusari Gama run.

I had hoped to discover something with the weapon that would make me like it more, honestly, but I didn't. It's just 'okay' fun in my book. A few moves are hopelessly overpowered, there rest is extremely mediocre. Fun running attacks tho. I like how Running X can hold the running input, allowing stuff like Running X into Running YY.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

290Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:59 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

So I've been practicing against Zed for a bit now, as I've found him to be an absolutely horrid fight no matter how many times I tackle this game on Master Ninja. Especially his second encounter.

So I decided to sit down for an afternoon and just master him, finally. Derp around with some weapons and ended up with some interesting findings:

- if he starts to summon enemies, you can use XX>XYYY with the Claws (Vermillion Bird), this forces him to block and he'll cancel the summon. Great for single-segment runs where his summon can mean death.

- if he's hovering in the air, use the RT button to unlock the lock-on. For some bizarre reason he'll stop flying around and his next move will nearly always be the ground-pound that lands him. Be sure to lock-on again immediately after to not die.

- XX>XYYY with the Claws (Vermillion Bird) seems to be the best punish paired with YYY (Undefeatable Demon) with the True Dragon Sword whose damage buff works great here. Undefeatable Demon is safer by a large margin, but Vermillion Bird has a unique quirk. If you do it after he grabs, he'll always try to grab you again, which gets him stuck in some sort of loop of grabbing you. This is helped by, for some mysterious reason, you're completely immune to grabs for nearly a whole second after landing from Vermillion Bird. The game apparently thinks you're still airborne?

- he's...surprisingly vulnerable to water-running moves which deal massive stagger to him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqkVwQksMKQ

This allowed me to absolutely melt Zed in around 15 seconds quite consistently:

https://youtu.be/py8NZmpuJSY

You can see the throw-invulnerability near the end. My musclememory really wrecked me there at the start, making me dodge away.

Enfin, thought I'd share!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

291Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:42 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Finally finished my Claw run, really had to force myself to get to the end to be honest. Murdered my way through the final chapters using Ninpo and face-tanked Dagra Dai. I couldn't be bothered anymore. It's a fun weapon but not deep enough to carry an entire run.

The final boss was pretty annoying too, had to use the jump attack + bow to even avoid the laser.

For reference, I started this run 2 years ago...

Immediately started a new run with the Kusarigama and am now in Chapter 2 already. Insanely fun weapon, never dove too deep into it in NGII (only in NGS2) and it has a lot of fun tools and cancels here. Going to dive in some more before I post notes.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

292Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:07 am

hebass


C-Rank

>Zed
Ugh, this dude was one of the hardest dudes to learn. The random fireball thing took me forever to get down, and even then, the timing isn’t always the same, he may go into another volley while you’re coming down while in the air.

Very cool, though. Sounds like you’re having fun! I’ve never got too far into Kusari-Gama, but I did also have fun with it when I used it.

293Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:22 am

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

>Zed
In the second fight, wouldn't Vermillion Bird Strike send you flying into the lava? A lot of useful information though, I'll be sure make note of it all. God I hate zedonious...

>Kusari-Gama
By far my favorite weapon. It's gonna be my choice for the first single weapon run I do. Might be awhile before that happens though, think I left off on chapter 6 MN.

294Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:58 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> Zed
Nope, for whatever reason this attack cannot be used to land into water from what testing I did, it always puts you on the edge at best (or worst, depending how you look at it haha)

https://stinger.actieforum.com

295Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:46 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

So something I just noticed is some moves make the health bar blur with some screen shake and a lot of vibration.
I never noticed it because for me at least, it stops if you open a menu, and doesn't do it after loading a save.
But if i switch weapons or re select the weapon it does the blurred health bar.

What is interesting is, in the case of the DS, it does it on EVERY move that has a high delimb.

The second and final hit of YYY.
The Y in XXY.
The X and Y of XXXY.

Forward X with lunar does it.

Is this blurred health bar thing the secret way the game tells you how to delimb enemies?
Has anyone talked about this?
Gonna have to test further with other weapons.

Forward Y with talons doesn't do it, but I believe that move is a fluke.
I think it was an oversight on the devs, it is just too good.

296Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:51 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I don't really understand what you mean, do you have a video or visual I can use as reference? Would be a pretty sweet discovery, first time I've heard about something like this.
You mean something like this: https://youtu.be/LwbXF2RykG4?t=31
During the third hit of XXXXX?

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297Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:55 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

When I load the save at the start. It doesn't happen. As soon as I reselect the weapon it happens and stays that way until I open the start menu. Also might go away on UT, have to test.

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/hedfone/video/139200756


It is in your clip too, at 22:00 when you switch from lunar to DS.


EDIT:
With testing I have discovered that just opening the quick menu triggers it. If you load or start a game it is not active until you open quick menu.
Opening any start menu cancels it. Also if you do a UT it does not cancel it, UNLESS the UT connects. If it connects the effect is turned off until you open the menu.
Maybe I am reading into it, but people who rely on UT, aren't utilizing the strings and OTs, so by turning it off they never learn the ot strings? That is probably me giving Itagaki more credit than he deserves lol.

298Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:04 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I literally said "the fuck" behind my computer.

It is probably intended as a funky 'emphasis', like how the flying swallow makes this 1-frame white flash or how the 'kill kick' in NG:B had that flash as well. NGII being NGII however it's apparently also glitchy as fuck.

Either this is one hell of a unique feature, or it's more a coincidence that a lot of strong delimb moves also go the emphasis visual tied to them. I'm not at home right now, on my wife's laptop, so I cannot test. But you can try XX>XY with the dual katana's. The final hit has one of the highest delimb % in the game. Another would be >Y with the Flails, XXY with the Scythe, Wall-X with the dragon sword, XYYYY with the Lunar and XX>XYYY with the talons (needs an enemy)

Good find man!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

299Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:35 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

I am not able to test these right now as I am on a DS only run and am not near a muramasa.
As far as it just emphasizing moves only.
What's weird is some neutral Y moves do it and some don't.

It could all be coincidence.

It is also really weird that it doesn't start with that health bar effect, if you have a 360 hooked up you should see if the health bar is there, and it is just an emulator glitch.

Edit:
Got to muramasa.
The Y enders in the combos you listed all do it. Most combos that end in Y do it. What is more interesting is the random x and y's in the middle.

The dual sword, flails, and talon's neutral Y do it. The rest don't. Are those high delimb?
Also looks like only a few forward x and Y's do it.
Any forward Y or X beside talon and flail that have high delimb?

300Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. - Page 6 Empty Re: Ninja gaiden 2 general discussion. Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:31 pm

RedShot


B-Rank

Are there any videos about the MN staircase fight before the patch? I'd really like to watch that epic insanity :D

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