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Rumored Collection of NGS titles spotted

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Infinity_Divide
andthenweplay
Gregorinho
hedfone
TheFirmament1
Birdman
RedShot
Royta/Raeng
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hebass


C-Rank

They actually excluded the Switch version from the 4K, 60fps (and can't guarantee a constant 60 fps) message they posted. I'm unsure what they intend to support for the switch version. This would be a nice platform to have it on, though for the portability and I got the Split Pad Pro for it which is fantastic for comfort. Additionally for the PS4, only the Pro version is supported with that comment (unsure if that refers only to 4K or the framerate as well).

I'm still somewhat torn on what to do. I wouldn't mind playing it with a faster Framerate and in 4K as well, but...we will see. The Vita PS + upgrade was neat with all of the body parts being added back in, but it isn't too important to me. Still have no idea what platform I'd target Sad

Birdman


SSS-Rank

What a piece of trash. Hope it fails.

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
A-Rank

Collector's edition? What the fuck are they bringing to the table with that one? It's not even being released physically over here.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> 60fps
Apparently it is in regard to the 4k resolution. It sounds like them covering their asses for a shoddy port, NG:B and NGII run pretty well at 4k on the X1X so I really wonder if it might be an engine issue or just a rushjob.

> online infrastructure
Which isn't even needed, as the game uses P2P connections, no servers. Probably has to do with either contract issues with the providers (I think you need to pay a fee on Sony's machines if you have an online mode). Even still, its absense (especially in Razor's Edge) is just baffling.

> it will flop
Yeah and as you note, they'll think "welp, that series is dead then". I can only hope its being on PC and Switch does it favours. Switch games tend to sell really well and NG still has a surprisingly strong brand.

> collectors edition
It comes with some avatars, an in-game artbook and music player (also in-game) for the royal price of 30 extra dollars.

At this point I'm wondering if they might add in some "gore DLC" and "unlock Master Ninja Mode DLC" just to drive the message home haha. So sad to see. Really wanted this to be a definitive release and now it is just...an inferior release.

I will say though that, despite all that, for new comers, it is quite a bang for your buck. You're getting an absolute shitton of (quality) content for your 40 bucks.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Birdman


SSS-Rank

>they'll think "welp, that series is dead then".

Wait. Are they actually this stupid? Are you telling me they aren't aware that they're making shitty inferior versions and people might be unhappy about that?

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Yeah that's basically how it's gone in the past at least. Which makes zero sense to me but sadly that's the way it goes it seems.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Or maybe they know this, and know they'll make some quick cash anyway. They never planned to make a new NG if there was interest.

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

>Physical release
Switch is getting physical editions everywhere as far as I can tell, and PS4 physical releases are exclusive to Japan (pretty standard).

Royta/Raeng wrote: for the royal price of 30 extra dollars.

I don't know if the prices are different for your region, but it's a 10 dollar difference between deluxe and standard for US markets.
https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP4108-CUSA24123_00-NINJAGAIDENMCDX1

Royta/Raeng wrote:> 60fps
Apparently it is in regard to the 4k resolution. It sounds like them covering their asses for a shoddy port, NG:B and NGII run pretty well at 4k on the X1X so I really wonder if it might be an engine issue or just a rushjob.

Xbox One backwards compatibility is basically emulation.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-xbox-one-x-back-compat-how-does-it-actually-work
Microsoft invested a huge amount of resources into it so many publishers could enjoy their games having a second go on the digital market with minimal investment. Koei Tecmo being just one of the publishers to take advantage of this. Not to say Team NINJA didn't put any work into the backwards compatible versions of NG, but it wouldn't have been possible had not Microsoft done most the work for them.

Porting a game on the other hand is completely different. It's not cheap and it's not easy. Let alone porting three different game's, two of which being specifically designed for PS3 hardware, to as many platforms as this collection is going to.

I'm not saying the port's are gonna be good. I'm not saying there are not things to be negative about. But comparing it to the Xbox one versions is nonsense.

hebass


C-Rank

>Microsoft backwards compatability
Love that! Might be time to go back to XBOX :)

> Xemu
@RedShot Thanks for mentioning this awhile back. I got it up and running a little while ago and was able to play vanilla Ninja Gaiden on it. It runs fantastic! Weird thing is you have to play with the curse eyes/arms from the get-go presently haha.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Yasuda had a short interview, lots of little details. Very SAD details too.

https://gamestalk.net/post-157938/

- They note that Sigma and Sigma 2 are included since they are, in their eyes, the final versions;
- They note that the masterfiles for Black and NGII are simply put: lost. They are scattered and unrecoverable. A darn, darn shame;
- NGS and NGS2 get an added "Hero Mode" that plays the game for you in a sense (probably akin to NG3's, which sees Ryu block automatically);
- Tag Mission Mode in NGS2 is readjusted to be completable solo;
- Online play isn't supported due to development schedule and business decisions;
- in NGS1 all Ninpo's are at their max power by default, with no need to shake the controller to increase their power;
- no more boob-shake in NGS2
- Secondary characters remain unchanged
- Yasuda notes that he feels he redeemed himself with NG3:RE after the failing of NG3, but would love to take revenge with a sequel one day
- he knows that people want Ryu in Smash. "We are waiting for the invitation".

https://stinger.actieforum.com

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

- They note that the masterfiles for Black and NGII are simply put: lost.
Truly a shame. I'm kinda hoping modders'll rebuild these now that some version of these games are gonna be on PC. Finally.

- Tag Mission Mode in NGS2 is readjusted to be completable solo
This makes sense. Don't the RE missions suffer similar issues? No mention of those being adjusted as well? Still doesn't make the lack of multiplayer any less disappointing for some though (not a deal breaker for me personally).

RedShot


B-Rank

@hebass No problem, glad to have helped!

>Yasuda's interview
How the heck did they lost those files? It happened to other important series but still...
By the way, are there downsides to ninpo at max power? Is there any reason to not want them to be always powerful (karma runs or something else)?

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
A-Rank

Well, at least we've been given a definitive answer as to why those two games aren't gonna be ported.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Storage space is expensive. Especially back then. There's a solid chance that if they'd still have the master-files they wouldn't be able to get them to work anyway since everyone that worked on them has since then left the company. Still though, terrible news. Makes me wonder if Itagaki just deleted them out of spite haha.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hebass


C-Rank

Disappointing on the lost files. I wonder if they used any kind of source control, or had backups of it at all that someone (maybe no longer part of the company) has kicking around. I know companies sometimes use separate source control types and/or repos for keeping history of art, code, and configurations...so maybe only some of it lost/missing. Considering the timeframe of the game, they may still have had bad practice.

Final note, if they happen to have full source history on NGS/NGS2, perhaps they can go back to the first revision, which would hopefully be a direct copy of the original (code and assets).

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
A-Rank

So they confirm that they consider the Sigma titles to be the final versions, and then throw in "NGB/2 are lost so we couldn't use them anyway"?

Rather unfortunate that there is no trace of either of Itagaki's games... almost a bit too unfortunate.

Either way, they could still make a definitive edition of the Sigma titles, incorporating the additions from the Plus versions. They're still too lazy to do that. I'm surprised they've even bothered to re-tune the coop missions to be done solo. I really want to be excited for this collection but it just sounds like they've taken shortcuts in as many places as possible.

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Sounds like utter shit. Hero mode? Fuck off.

>no jiggle
Would love to hear their excuse for this.

>sequel
Then just do it.

>Ryu is Smash
Priorities.

Not touching this trash.

RedShot


B-Rank

A lot of people are very insistent on wanting Ryu in Smash and more blood in Sigma 2. It seems they know nothing about these games and they just repeat strange requests which they heard somewhere else.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

I've had a similar discussion on the subreddit where I noted that too. I find it super weird that the entire focus is on the gore, while it's such a small thing.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hebass


C-Rank

Honestly, I enjoyed the crap out of NGS/NGS2 _after_ having played NG/NGB/NGII. Playing NGS2 just this last year more thoroughly, mechanics-wise than I ever had before in any of the entries was extremely fun. I know there was a lot of fun that is the older versions of the games as well, but I think ultimately, people will have a good time with these ports.

I never even thought about the gore on NGS2. When later playing NGS2+, seeing torsos and such flying around was not anything more than a "neat" from me. But then, when the lag starts to kick in, I started to wonder why they even added that back in for the Vita.

Also, something like this happened a long time ago in my youth, when the SNES brought Mortal Kombat with "sweat" rather than "blood". There was a lot of noise about it, then. Even with a game like Mortal Kombat, where the gore is forefront, the actual Kombat mechanics are still the main driving factor of gameplay. My friends and I were happy to play it at home on the SNES anyway, it still looked great haha.

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
A-Rank

Speaking as an outsider inexperienced with the games, I think it does a lot for the aesthetic. I watched those 2 NG videos you linked in the D:E thread, Raeng - I have to say, the extra brutality really makes NG2 stand out to me over Sigma 2. The aftermath of every fight looks quite impressive. To make a D:E comparison, I think there would be something less satisfying about that game if the glory kills weren't so brutal, if explosions didn't gib the demons etc.

I just think it's a shame that KT aren't interested in trying to make a definitive version of their Sigma titles.

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
A-Rank

Some PC version notes:

- Doesn't have "advanced graphics options" (in response to being asked if 120fps or ultrawide are supported)
- Will either run at 1080p or 4K automatically depending on your hardware (sounds like a dynamic resolution is the only option - I don't think I've ever played a PC game that doesn't let you pick your resolution manually...)
- No mouse/keyboard support (I know nobody wants to play NG on a keyboard, but come on...)

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-ninja-gaiden-collection-is-a-barebones-pc-port-locked-to-60-fps/

I wonder what the next bad news will be.

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
A-Rank

I've said it before, but this is the third time something has gone wrong with mouse and keyboard on a Team Ninja PC Port. Nioh 1 didn't have mouse support or keyboard prompts, Nioh 2 shipped with no prompts, and now, they're just not supporting it altogether.

The sad thing is, Ninja Gaiden is one of those games where I can easily think of a decent control scheme on mouse and keyboard, because of how simple the controls are:

WASD: Movement
LMB: Light attack
RMB: Heavy attack
Middle Mouse: Re-center camera
Shift: Block/Dodge
Scroll Wheel Up/Down: Item menu, use A & D to cycle through weapons/potions/ninpo
E: Shuriken
Q: Ninpo
Space: Jump
Alt: Bow

But above all, no mouse and keyboard support is just a signal that the port's gonna be very lazy.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

My only doubt would be how to do the directions and movement speed. NGII is especially tight in its deadzones and directional inputs, with only 8 directions that might pose a problem? That said, regardless, it is super, super, super lazy and just shows - once again - how phoned in this port is.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

AeternalSolitude

AeternalSolitude
C-Rank

>NGB NGII Lost code
No conspiracy I'm afraid. Japanese studios are infamous for not keeping source code. Part of why the Silent Hill remasters were so bad is because the remaster team were given incomplete code. I think Capcom has had problems with this as well.

>PC port
Unfortunately a lot of Japanese studios are still failing in this regard, some (like Capcom) are getting a bit better though.

>Yasuda interviews
I've been combing through some of these, and it seems that they are largely using code from the Vita versions. It's still unclear what features are gonna be making it on the collection though.

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

So is it 100% confirmed 1 and 2 are the vita versions?

RedShot


B-Rank

Infinity_Divide wrote:So is it 100% confirmed 1 and 2 are the vita versions?
They have Vita content, PS3 textures and no online. We have no clue about Sigma Plus equipment (bad addition) or differences in Mission Mode (more health and ninpo items than Sigma's counterpart). We don't know if we can activate Turbo like in Sigma 2 Plus Tag Missions but other modes and costumes were all confirmed.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It's extremely hard to say. Sigma 1 is noted to having the some of the DLC, but they didn't note anything of the Sigma+ additions like its Ninja Trial Mode (not to be confused with the already included Mission Mode).

Sigma 2 seems to have at least Tag Mode and one of the costumes from NGS2+...but the hairstyle on that costume is different.

It is astonishing how complicated playing Ninja Gaiden is going to get...

https://stinger.actieforum.com

RedShot


B-Rank

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

What a mess of a collection. I’m getting it either way because I’m a sucker, but I wish this stuff was more defined.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> trials mentioned in the achievements
At this point I seriously wouldn't put it past Team Ninja that the Trials aren't included, but they just ported over the Sigma Plus achievements, giving an achievement for a mode that doesn't exist.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hebass


C-Rank

I pulled the trigger and purchased 2 versions of this game...physical import copies. One for Switch and one for PS4. Why? I can't help it! Must have all versions.

Now to decide if I want a Steam PC version as well...

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

I’m also getting an import copy for whatever reason. I need to actually play one of these games to completion instead of getting distracted like I always do.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Ended up buying it digitally just so I can have them all installed on my Ninja Gaiden console ... I mean Xbox haha. Kind of excited to try out some of the PLUS content once I get it unlocked somehow.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

By default the controls are fucked if you're an Xbox user, so you have to change it immediately.

Some notes per game:

NGS1: you start with Ninja Trials and Survival/Speed/Rachel DLC unlocked, so you can immediately play those. Game loads very smoothly and looks good, nothing special. Had one weird bug where an UT'd enemy gave a blue-orb which was weird, other than that it is still the Sigma you know. Has the PLUS menu for whatever reason.

NGS2: tag mission is unlocked from the get go, but you barely have any weapons so you're pretty gimped. Loading times are good. No gore that I could find. Otherwise it's the NGS2 you know.

NG3:RE: they fixed the infinite karma glitch, so that's out. You immediately have the DLC costume and Epigonos costume unlocked which is neat. All other modes are locked. Game runs about the same as the Xbox One BC version, didn't see any noticable changes in visual flair either. A bit more bloom perhaps, nothing special.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

They actually unlocked Hard Mode from the get go btw, which helps a lot with replays. Means you only got to beat Mentor in NGS2 to unlock master ninja, while in NGS1 you can just beat Doku 2 times in a row.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
A-Rank

To change the resolution on the PC version, you have to type "720p", "1080p" or "4k" in to the launch options properties in Steam. This is how barebones a port we're talking. It's one of those "do you laugh or cry" things.

I hope you guys enjoy it on console but I'm gonna sit this one out, I'll dig out my 360 sometime instead.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Yeah I saw the notes, you'll know it's terrible if they couldn't even be bothered to do that.

So far it's okay. I'm too accustomed to playing the originals. Sigma 1's roll animation pisses me off and I'd rather play the games on my upcoming oldsk00l Xbox than this machine. Sigma 2 really is just way too timid for my taste, though I admit Ninja Race Mode is a lot of fun. I'll probably finish Sigma 2 just for funz. Razor's Edge is literally the same as the Backwards Compatible one but with 1 extra costume and no online mode, and they fixed the karma-glitch. Not going to bother with that one, already have the regular version.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>Sigma 1's roll animation

I remember JTB explaining this. Looked awful.

TheFirmament1

TheFirmament1
A-Rank

There a link to him explaining this? I'd like to know more.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Same, do you have a link? I jumped ship from Sigma to Black pretty fast (only did 100% completion), and the dodgeroll always felt...super off in NGS. Even moreso now. Would love to know more about it.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Infinity_Divide

Infinity_Divide
S-Rank

How does one win against Doku in chapter 2? It seems like when I get him down about halfway he insta-grabs me every time and I’m dead.

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

>Same, do you have a link?

I don't know how I found this old stream lol, I watched it live 2 years ago.
8:25 in the video.


Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

@infinity

For Doku, he's super, super easy once you figure out he was coded by a teenager.

Doku is hardcoded to react to you charging UTs. This is his moveset:

If you are close: he'll do the grab, which is an OHKO
If you are in the air: he'll slam you down
If you charge UT at a distance: he'll do the shockwave
If you charge UT near him: he'll do his own "UT"
Random at mid range: fire breath

So basically what you do is you dodge away from him and hold the UT button. He'll do the shockwave, but you'll have already let go and whiffed the attack. You'll jump towards him and charge UT in his face, and let go when he "UTs". Rinse and repeat. You can also just charge UTs in his face ad nauseum. See here:

https://youtu.be/He__zR5iHCY

So yeah basically just bait him into doing a shockwave by charging a UT. Easiest way.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

hedfone wrote:>Same, do you have a link?

I don't know how I found this old stream lol, I watched it live 2 years ago.
8:25 in the video.



Awesome! Going to watch it immediately. Thank you for finding it!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Some really interesting notes (aside from him even saying that he might think Sigma is better than Black if it wasn't for the roll).

Some takeaways, some of which I knew but others I didn't notice:
- the backwards flip has huge recovery
- the handstand has weird i.frames, so you can't dodge away as easily.
- Ryu doesn't orientate to the left or right when rolling that way (this is probably what's pissing me off)

The video in general is also great. Lots of neat observations.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

hebass


C-Rank

Pretty cool, thanks for sharing this stuff. I actually never realized the roll difference...probably because I played Sigma many years later after Vanilla/Black.

I started playing Sigma last night. I still love it. I really enjoy the contiguous level design with adventure aspects within it. I haven't been able to play anything in a few months, though...happened to sneak some time in for this one haha. Hoping to get back into it in late July more thoroughly. Hope you all enjoy it if you continue to play!

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank

Gonna finally start NGB tonight for the first time, all of this NG talk has me back in the mood.
Don't know if I am interested in this collection at all, I guess the most interesting thing is having RE on pc.

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

They nerfed the trials into the ground for NGS2 and NG3RE sadly. Just did UN1, the legendary fight, in three tries with an underleveled dual-katana and honestly...mashing a bit. I was super rusty and didn't really care, and still beat it. Their damage output is way, way lower and their HP seems to be lowered by at least 50%. A super-ninpo deals around 33% damage to Volf, it's crazy.

Same thing seems to have happened in NG3:RE.

In other news, I finally got a 1000 kill compleition in Survival in NGS1. The survival mode ends afterwards, which is interesting.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

100Rumored Collection of NGS titles spotted - Page 2 Empty high speed diluted action Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:11 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
B-Rank

I feel that the Sigma should be in the title.
Just a reminder that avoids confusion. Some people might get it wrong, and then it's too late. Most will think that's the whole spectrum, even the originators.

Anyway, from what I get, it's not even the Sigma experience due to changes you descripe. I could not support this. I rather have it only some very special players know about the legacy. You know, like the inhabitans of a remote shinobi village. Aah, how romantic...

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