God Hand general discussion

Not much to say yet just putting this here for now. You're not Alexander.(I done fixed it).

Beat god hand again on normal. Clear time 17:12:33. Continues-66. Slain villagers 0. ;p
Foes slain:
Lvl1-3
Lvl2-87
Lvl3-400
LvlDie-281
Total average-3.6

I actually took a break from god hand to play something else I can't remember haha. I got back into GH this year recently, I started to really learn some stuff this time as I checked up mikekobs and companies info.

I hate how you start with default moves and stats for cleared game. Even on cleared game2 which means I have to grind for cash at the arena and casino a bit. Not so bad but that's a bit of tedium. I have the psn version which has some slowdown when too many dust particles are near you, otherwise it's same as ps2. It's emulated not a proper remaster, which is effectively the pc emulated version anyway.

Read some of the comments their is some good discussion on game genre terms.

I tried hard mode a bit ago and I couldn't get passed mr.gold/silver they whipped me good. I don't like lvldie for some bosses they get so fast I can't react to some of their moves, the damage they deal is insane too. I prefer lvl3 I consider that to be hard mode and lvldie is gene must die.

I'd rather wait until I can get a pc to emulate it at 60fps to play lvldie for real,god hand is so damn fast it needs it. Psn version slowdown from too many particle effects doesn't help.
Never gonna do a KMS run that's way too hard and boring, I like to have all my tools at my disposal.

I have to respect all the enemies in god hand they have to be the most competent batch of goons in anything ever, those 2 regular goons in intro stage are 2 of the best designed enemies ever.

On my first god hand run I didn't even know how to guard break properly until elvis forced me to, I didn't know how to do the shoryuken/air launch kick/sweep reliably until my second run. God hand has kicked my arse more than any other game I've played period. I think my average death count for each stage was at least 30. God hand is like an abusive relationship, the more it beats me the more I love it and come back for more, a brutal sensei but it demands my best constantly and rewards in kind.

I always like playing on Normal the most exactly because of those rankings you mentioned. I am curious what, without resets, would be a good run. 3.6 grade average seems pretty darn good not going to lie.

I'll take a look at those videos later-on. Seem pretty cool!

For the new game mode, I have a save-file where I have (nearly) max-cash after the casino is unlocked. So if I want I can boot it up anytime and just have a good time. Just make the file once and copy it when you make a new playthrough, works wonders!

EDIT:
Ah you just made a new post. About Hard mode, it's pretty intense. It's good for one or two runs but I feel that the exclusion of the LVL mechanic is very noticable. I'd have prefered it if on Hard the level would go infinite or something, would have been interesting. Hard KMS is doable and a very good learning experience, it really teaches you to be better and learn new and exciting setups. I became a much better player at it after doing the game Hard KMS and even some challenges with Hard KMS Starter Moveset Only. That said Lvl.Die really can be bonkers, especially Elvis gains some pretty big bullshit moves.

Yeh some bosses are bullshit fast especially elvis, I have beaten him in arena challenges, Elvis' its the butt stomp that's too fast to react to so I have to predict it which kills the pace of the fight, not fun to deal with at all.
Also I don't do resets I didn't know about that until very recently I just take my lickings,but the extra money seems useful haha.

For money I always do all the arena challenges first(the ones I can do) then do some chihuahua races. I'm grinding or money now, I tried video poker but I have no clue how poker works at all haha.

I don't do the high side kick cancel much, I didn't know about that until I really got into GH this year, it is super useful so I reserve it for when I'm worried about dying after a good run and for arena challenges or when demons piss me off(I'm not good with it either haha). I like to be creative and try to vary my move sets, but since you only have one move set and its a tad cumbersometo to change so it doesn't do a good job at incentivising changing moves. Everyone has their favourite moves to rely on so multiple move sets would alleviate this issue, more so if they where assigned to dpad during gameplay.

GH has way too much dominant strategy also, unlike bayo or dmc it doesn't have a combo meter that's tied to ranks and money received which incentives creative, varied play. That said I do like how simple and pure GH's ranking scores are, it just tallies your deaths and what lvl you killed goons at so there is a lot of trust in the player to judge their own improvements.

I don't believe anyone NEEDS an incentive to do anything.

so if they where assigned to dpad during gameplay.

That's an interesting idea. Essentially it's like weapon switching, but you change your square combo and all alt attacks.

GH has way too much dominant strategy also

Sort of an issue with Absolver at the moment. There are a lot of players using only fast moves which can be difficult to deal with unless you're doing the same. Every game with a vs mode of some kind will most likely have something optimal though.

As for GH, I don't use moves I don't like. Simple. Don't really care how inferior they are to the top moves.

The biggest 'flaw' of God Hand is that Jab> Jab> Weave> guard break is too good of a combo into the wall-infinite. But honestly it can easily be fixed by "don't use it". That said DMC and Bayonetta suffer from the same problem despite their combo-meters. In DMC3 rebellion/Beowolf reigned surpreme and just mashing JC'd Killer Bee's was enough to see you through to the end. Bayonetta's Rodin weapon mash [ ] for maximum combo, hell in Bayonetta 2 one move of Rodin was all you needed (Back > Foward > Kick) - just spam that move and see your Pure Platinum appear.

> Elvis Butslam
Jup that's the one, such a brokenly fast move.

> money
I always did blackjack, fun little game.

> dpad styles
I had that concept too, but I'd like it to be an animation. So he does a little stance or a taunt, this way you don't make it TOO combo heavy and allow for some balancing.

I can imagine just switching and canceling into alt button attacks back and forth or something like that if it was going to be instant.

Sucks that azel and double god hand gene get to switch moves. It's such a simple change and would add so much to its potential, you have to commit to your move set since it's so awkward to swap quickly at least for me. Wonder if it was a hardware limit or other.

What was the development history for GH? It seems unpolished in areas and on a tight budget which says a lot for how masterful the combat is.

Needs more midgets though, I'd appreciate a few more encounters we rarely see them so we don't get to experiment with them in mixed groups much at all. 1 Claw midget appears during stage 6-1 and that's the only other time you see claw midgets, of course mole midgets are reskins.
I think they should have appeared in a few other boxes elsewhere, as bizarrely only 2 times midgets can be found in boxes,which could have been a nod to re4 snakes in boxes haha. Such a novel enemy type, claw midgets don't even appear in the arena challenges. Bomb midgets appear in just 1 challenge, I'd love a challenge of 50 midgets, you think they would really go nuts with challenges it's so odd.

I honestly have no clue on the development of God Hand, though I know Clover shut the doors on the day it was released, so it couldn't have been good. Pretty good chance that while the budget was there, management discussions and struggles led to an unfocused development team more busy worrying about losing their job than anything else. I'll look into it when I eventually cover it on Stinger, pretty interested!

The biggest 'flaw' of God Hand is that Jab> Jab> Weave> guard break is too good of a combo into the wall-infinite. But honestly it can easily be fixed by "don't use it".

Pretty much the case of every action game (if not EVERY game with combat, moves and weapons) and yeah you just opt to not use it I guess.

I tend to use whatever weapons interest me the most. In DMC3, Cerberus was actually my favorite weapon with Rebellion. I did use everything at some point, but always gravitated back to these.

In CL, once you power up more, some legions become completely obsolete and you'd only ever use them because you just liked the look of them or something. It's probably a bit worse in CL, a game about control and efficiency, so using these inferior ones can actually make the game harder, where in DMC3 you may still have some stuff that's not as powerful as others, but everything works on everything. That's not to say weaker legions don't actually work in the situation I described, but you get what I mean. They put you at an actual disadvantage at that point. I'm mainly talking about summoning here.

The problem with the HSK cancel spam is that it's all that most knew about GH, for years on end no one bothered to learn GH's meta because GH doesn't do a good job of explaining its mechanics and HSK being so easily exploitable. Doesn't help it's pretty obscure compared to NG, DMC and GoW.

The vid about God Hand and the importance of conveyance(the 1st one I posted) explains why HSK spam was such an issue for GH compared to DMC and the like. Saur did a vid the year GH came out but it took MikeKob and Alps to raise GH to the point where it is now.

Pretty much the case of every action game (if not EVERY game with combat, moves and weapons) and yeah you just opt to not use it I guess.

Pretty much yeah. Ninja Gaiden has a big Ultimate Technique problem, and in 3 has a huge issue with players spamming Steel on Bone. MGR:R has the brokenness of the Armor Breaker, while DMC has just Killer Bee spam. This genre seems to really like having fallbacks for the more casual player for some reason.

Is it fallbacks though? Or just lack of extensive testing? DMC3 had a lot of weapons and combinations that could not possibly have been accounted for in development time. Wasn't KB jc spam something players came up with?

That's just DMC3. The others like MGR definitely seem to have a fallback. The armor breaker is ridiculous. I actually don't like special weapons like that if they bypass the mechanics.

Ninja Gaiden has so many broken things it is unreal, either they didn't care or didn't know how to balance it. God of War has abusable grapples and certain loops are just "point and laugh". God Hand has the infamous jab jab break weave. Viewtiful Joe has Zoomed-slow-mo-punch (Red-Hot-One-Hundred) which is probably the only move you'll ever use in that game. DMC1 has DT Grenade Launcher. DMC3 has killer bee spam (which I think they know about since some preview footage showed jump canceling in them).

I think they honestly just leave it in, let the players tear it to pieces.

Problem comes when exploits get more exposure than the actual mechanics do, when most info is just how to cheese the game makes it difficult to suss out the real understandings of a games meta. Arguments saying why bother learning things when the game doesn't necessitate them due to easy exploits take precedence over advanced techniques discussion, stuff that only holds a games potential hostage.

GH was held back more so than most due to its obscurity, difficulty, lack of a fan base with thorough knowledge of its mechanics and how poorly it conveys its mechanics. Bayo and DMC do a much better job at conveying their mechanics than GH, Bayo having tutorials, combo practice(tutorials for testing new moves) and optional challenge areas.

DMC and NG having substantially larger fan bases that explored the mechanics for a long time now.

Exploits don't bother me as long as there is discussion of advanced tactics and tech, GH is fine now due to this all that could be has been documented about it, just for the longest time HSK cancel overshadowed everything.

I remember way back all anyone would talk about is spamming the drunken twist move. When someone had an issue, that was always the answer.

Exactly, but the good thing is now everything has been documented and GH is as popular as it's ever been. All action games face this but GH serves as a reminder of the most extreme examples.

Making this message to add this to my post viewing. I gave up finding the retail version and got the PSN one. But maybe I will one day see it.

The retail version is fantastic, but also extremely pricey I've found. I eventually managed to snag a 'cheap' 80 euro copy.

I ended up buying a copy of the Japanese version on eBay for about £35. It came with the soundtrack which was a nice surprise!

For real? There's a sound-track CD? Any chance of an image? Would love to see it!

Sure, I'll post an image tonight! It comes inside the game case (there is an extra bit of plastic in the case like there was for 2-disc games). I think it was called "GOD TRACKS", which is obviously the best name for a soundtrack. I'm not sure if the OST ever got a standalone release.

Really cool, cheers man, can't wait to see it! God Tracks is a fantastic name I agree. Can't remember ever hearing about it.

My physical copy has a very small crack in the center of the disc. This saddens me.

Some stores offer a repair-option, I tried it once and was not disappointed. Worth a shot, much cheaper than to buy a new copy that's for sure.

Good call, thanks. The digital version works just fine but I feel like it has slowdown that the original didn’t have. My physical copy also has about 10 different files that I can’t access now.

I believe the JP version of DMC1 comes with the soundtrack as well.

The PSN version has slow-down in some parts that the PS2 version does not, but it also runs better if you're PAL (since mine is stuck at 50fps for life). And damn Birdman I can't imagine having a DMC1 cd, that'd be so cool. I can already imagine the cover.

A couple of images of the Japanese version, with the OST. The OST is mentioned on the back of the case - I wonder if there were NTSC-J copies released without the soundtrack...

Edit: Interesting to note that the Grasshopper Manufacture logo can be seen on the OST disc. Just looked in to it and it turns out Masafumi Takada was the composer - he's worked on all kinds including Killer7, Earth Defence Force, No More Heroes, Vanquish, The Evil Within & Danganronpa. Quite the portfolio!

Cool!

Fuck me that cover is sexy, really makes me consider wanting to buy a Japanese copy as well. Though I'm sure my Playstation is region locked. I was planning on getting one to play that rare Fist of the North Star game at one point...

Pretty funny to see Grasshopper's logo on there, I always considered them to be 'the other part' of Capcom for whatever reason. Mikami has had so much good influences.

Thanks for sharing this Greg!

The God Hand fanboy in me is telling me to pick up a copy now, wow. That looks awesome.

Sent from Topic'it App

Greg turning into our inhouse God Hand dealer...

Takada and Fukuda are GODS. Killer7 is a top 3 soundtrack for me.

Sent from Topic'it App

The only gambling games in God Hand I like is Blackjack and the Chihuahua Races.

I always liked Blackjack as a game, also it is the only one I really understand...

Have you ever done the Chihuahua races?

A few times, it is totally random. I wouldn't waste my cash on it!

I can only imagine what Hard mode is going to be.

You already have, with some luck. Hard Mode is basically Normal Mode, set to Level Die constantly. It is honestly a bit of a let down, since it removes one of the most fun elements (level system) from the game.

I wish god hand had a Mentor mode equivalent that locked at maybe 2 and 3. Going from normal to hard imo is quite the jump.

You think? Honestly I felt it wasn't too bad, outside of Gold and Silver which could be hell. Hard KMS is nuts though, never again.

If I'd write an article about it (one day) I would probably critisize the hardest mode though for dumping the level system. It would've been cool if on Hard it had no cap, and could just go on forever. Would have been so cool!

A little after beating Gold and Silver is where I stopped hard mode haha. It took too much out of me.
I also really despise the inconsistent checkpoints in this game, wish there was a proper save. I know you can skip fights like RE4, but that seems cheesy.

I always liked that if you died, you would keep the cash you earned. Also kind of rewarded grinding though.

Okay...I did NOT see that coming. I did snicker at the God of War comment at the start though haha.

Holy shit, Mitch form Game front! His dark souls walkthrough with James was so damn hilarious.
Those were the good old days.