Astral Chain Revealed

>too easy
They're complaining about EVERYTHING. Majority of them can't even dodge lol.

The other Platinum fans are just as bad.

It is absolutely nuts just how well this game works if you start swapping between Legions and using their buffs. Currently have a pretty neato setup down. Start with Axe Legion, use buff Attack and shield-buff. Switch to Arrow, use unchain (breaks them free to attack, allowing two legions on the field), switch to Sword, activate Summoned Swords, use the chain-whip to stun them, do stun combo into launcher. Switch to BladeWolf, use Howl (dizzy stun), dizzied enemies can be launched with a kick, switch to Axe for aerial combo that ends in a delayed bomb being stuck in them. End up with the ATATATAT rush punch from the Arms legion.

I've melted a boss using this setup. Meanwhile on Youtube 'hurdur just mash ZR'.

Fact that buffs carry over is very sweet. Lots of optimization present, and can now see why some moves are given to every legion (more customization and experimentation for the player). Haven't really found a good 'use' for ARMS legion outside of a random ATATAT or item throw though. Axe Legion is absolutely bonkers. Has a passive shield (drains meter when hit), has a built in just-parry (how are DMC kids hating this?), can put phantom blades into the ground and in foes that detonate after 5 seconds (basically Bayo's bombs) for bonkers damage. The list goes on and on.

Gave Arrow legion some +% Crit Damage buffs, headshots melt things now. Doggo is the combo kids dream right now (leads to easy juggles) but most ignore its fantastic other abilities.

The game has the potential to beat Wonderful 101 at the very least, it has already beaten the rest barring that title and Vanquish. Yes, I consider it better than MGR:R. To think I'd see the day.

Wanna know something really bonkers? Astral Chain might also have the best stealth I've played in a while. It's a tad lineair at times, but you have aerial kills, can kill enemies by chain-linking them from behind cover (they cannot see Legions). There's enviromental kills, distractions you can create, grenades can be used for quick stuns etc. The game even has alert states (Alert, Caution, etc).

Final chapter has a pretty huge jump in challenge to prepare for PT Ultimate Difficulty I feel. The endgame enemies hit like a truck (30-50% damage per hit), and the second to last boss nearly OHKO'd me at max health and has bonkers frame-data. This game is not made to 'no damage'. PT Ultimate removes revives and makes you share damage with your Legion. Good changes imo. Also remixed enemy encounters.

I love this game

You're very close Raeng. Despite the complaints I have, I keep finding myself wanting to play more and more. The combat loop is really enjoyable once you've got most of your toolkit unlocked. You get a set of post-game challenges to tackle after you beat the game (quite a number, I'm led to believe), so there's still a lot more to sink your teeth into yet.

What are those complaints currently for you then? My biggest are:

- inverting x-axis also inverts it for FPS aiming;
- too much downtime;
- maintenance of Legions is pointless pandering;
- camera can be...finnicky;
- game starts way too slow;

Overall really interested in trying more and more stuff. Also looking forward to doing a NUR down the line, see how it all ends up going.

I'd agree with all of your points and add a couple extra:

- The level design in the Astral Plane can be frustrating. It's easy to get caught on terrain when doing chain jumps around pillars, causing needless fall damage. I'm also personally not of a fan of there being platforms that disappear when you stand on them during combat scenarios.

- I originally said that I had issues with the dodge mechanic, but I think it's actually the hit boxes for certain enemies that are the problem. I have a clip saved on my Switch of me being hit by a boss who is nowhere near me.

The dodge is a tad weird though I admit to rarely using it. The dodge-sync of the Wolf and Arms legion are fully i.framed iirc so I sometimes use those, otherwise I rely on perfect call or just going ham.

Also have to note the platforming yeah, not the best. I think a few invisible walls here would've helped a tad.

I think you dodge, then sync attack, and then if that lands you can follow it up with the i-framed sync attack that changes the camera angle. I might be wrong but I think you can still be hit in between the two attacks.

Despite my issues with the game personally, I'm still really enjoying things. It's all so satisfying when it clicks together.

I need to give Arrow the crit buffs like you suggested above, that sounds lethal. I've found it's been useful to let Arm do the unchained rush, and then swap to Sword and use the summoned swords skill (forgotten the name) and then throw him at the enemy too. Having yourself and 2 legions wailing away at an enemy looks bad ass.

Yeah that's a setup I'm now using, I put Unchained on Arms since I like using Arrow more. About the dodge, the forward and side dodge have more recovery than the back dodge, so always dodge back. Back dodge has more i.frames too.

So with Wolf and Arms, the second you get the first sync it is already i.framed.

You sound like me with CL.

I need a Switch so bad.

So do I. Sadly, I'm a poor-ass high schooler.

Maybe I'll give Knack 2 a shot on PS4, though, since you're saying that the combat is actually pretty good. Chaos Legion sadly wasn't for me.

What is your opinion on it since my last post?

It really doesn't seem to be a bad game at all. But the challenge... The challenge that the game offers is fine and all, it's not stupidly hard, but at the same time... It just doesn't really give me that drive, you know? In, say, Ninja Gaiden, when I fuck up and die, I'm like "Oh hell no, it's not over yet", and then press on, wanting to win more than ever. In this game, when I fuck up and die, it's more like "Oh. Looks like I'll be looking at those guides again.", and then I just sigh, look at my laptop next to me, read the guide, and continue, not really motivated. I'm not sure how I can articulate more than that.

I may come back to it at some point, though. You really like the game, and frankly, that'll probably give me enough motivation to continue playing it.

I'm pretty convinced that you know more about the game's gameplay than the makers of the game.

>looking at guides
Would you say it's not clear how you died?

I don't really understand the issue, so I guess we can label it 'not your thing' I guess.

>Knack 2
Have a look at my guide if you haven't already. The game is pretty basic in terms of execution, and all the commands are dead simple, but it still has a lot to it, though it's one of those action games that is pretty easy especially when upgraded and you never have to use anything other than basics to win.

Few more notes, just beat the game (final boss was pretty hard), and now doing a PT Platinum run while also just collecting everything. This game is a beast on replays. So much less downtime and a lot more content since you now have all the legions. Birdman. GET THIS GAME.

The one time I don’t buy something on release and it sounds incredible. I might do some trade-ins to get a copy.

Just to note, the game has the slowest start I've seen in any action title to date. It doesn't really get going until Chapter 5, and for me it didn't really hit off until Chapter 10 (of 11). But once on New Game Plus...man oh man. Probably one of their best so far. Seriously. Game is bonkers good.

As for our Gamefaqs chat, you're right, it is a game I should have been all over, and technically I am, I just can't afford the console and it pains me greatly.

I'm following the complaints closely and it's CL all over again, to the letter. This means it will probably be, for me, one of the best games of all time and I'll probably end up being the only one playing it for 14 years like I did with CL.

That's where you're wrong Birdman. This time I'll be right there with you.

I'll hold you to that. 14 years it is.

Timer starts as soon as I get a Switch. Gimme a few weeks to save up.

Birdman wrote:As for our Gamefaqs chat, you're right, it is a game I should have been all over, and technically I am, I just can't afford the console and it pains me greatly.

I'm following the complaints closely and it's CL all over again, to the letter. This means it will probably be, for me, one of the best games of all time and I'll probably end up being the only one playing it for 14 years like I did with CL.

Are any of these "complaints" legit or is it gamefaqs being ignorant about something they don't understand as usual?

Gamefaqs as usual.

I wouldn't go that far. The game has problems but most of them are overlooked in favour of the general pandering. The complaint about the Ranking System being absolutely ass is valid, you need only fart towards a boss and be showered in S+ ranks. It is a bit overdone.

The camera is almost as bad as in MGR:R, and the game really does take way too long to get interesting mechanically speaking. In fact I nearly hated my initial run.

But most of the complaints are people just not giving it the same fair shake they gave other games. It's the same old tired trope of "this game does X, I don't like that", but when pointed out that their favourite game has the same problem they'll say "yeah but then you're playing it wrong", to which you say "exactly, same with this game" and then the namecalling begins.

The Reddit page is pure memes. And no Youtuber of quality is touching it beyond Miduki's one video which is beyond sad. As it stands, the best discussion about the game is probably going to be found here...

Royta/Raeng wrote:I wouldn't go that far. The game has problems but most of them are overlooked in favour of the general pandering. The complaint about the Ranking System being absolutely ass is valid, you need only fart towards a boss and be showered in S+ ranks. It is a bit overdone.

How is it on the hard mode?

The camera is almost as bad as in MGR:R, and the game really does take way too long to get interesting mechanically speaking. In fact I nearly hated my initial run.

I thought you liked the game after File 4?

But most of the complaints are people just not giving it the same fair shake they gave other games. It's the same old tired trope of "this game does X, I don't like that", but when pointed out that their favourite game has the same problem they'll say "yeah but then you're playing it wrong", to which you say "exactly, same with this game" and then the namecalling begins.

The Reddit page is pure memes. And no Youtuber of quality is touching it beyond Miduki's one video which is beyond sad.

What kinda memes? Are they shitting on the game like Gamefaqs? Or is it some kind of bullshit like "it has bad story, platinum games have good stories."

As it stands, the best discussion about the game is probably going to be found here...

I think this is also true for some other games in the genre.
Makes me wish more people would find this site.
But then again it can also mean a lot of bad eggs might get in here.

>rank
Yeah but that's not the kind of complaint I was referring to. The ranking seems similar to TF:D. In that, each action was worth a certain amount of points, so you could farm the easiest one. You actually HAD to do that because if you were too strong you'd wipe out each encounter so fast you wouldn't generate any points. So you had to purposely be weak or do something dumb like repeated dodge headshots. I never bothered with the ranks because of this system.

>MGR camera
Cameras almost never bother me. I learn to manipulate them to my will.

>slow start
Sure, but again the complaints I'm referring to are all combat/mechanics related. These idiots need guides. ON HOW TO DODGE.

>the rest
Exactly.
Certain groups of fans of the genre, are just as bad as any troll, as I always say.

>best discussion found here
I'd say there will be around, oh I don't know, 14 years of it?

My half brother's half brother has a Switch and once lent it to my half brother, but this was long before AC was even announced. My half brother never touched it. I might see if I can get his half brother to lend it to me instead and I'll go buy AC for $99. Better than like, $500+ and it won't take me long to know if I'll like it.

The Hard Mode requires a bit more managing, since you die faster, but you'll still be showered in S+ ranks. After figuring out how the ranking system works I haven't had a rank lower than S+ on any run, even my final boss attempt, where I died a few times, gave me an S+.

Regarding liking it, I went up and down. I liked it, but when I got home from work I wasn't itching to play and still dabled in other hobbies and games. Now that I've finished it and am really diving in, I have really big trouble even putting the game down.

> memes
Just jokes using in-game footage, kind of like DMC. Nothing against the game, just people wanting a quick up-vote. I don't think anyone on that page has beaten the game yet.

> size of the forum
That's one thing I'm always going to be pretty on point about, I don't want this forum to devolve in quality and mechanical discussion. The forum originally required an invitation by me, which I disabled eventually. So far the quality is still at the level I dreamed about though!

> camera
It is just a complaint, as noted, it can be ignored if you master it.

> dodge guide
To note, the dodge in this game is a trap. You shouldn't use it.

> 14 years of discussion
Bring it.

>rank
How are the harder difficulties? Have you tried them? Wondering if anything changes in terms of how you go about rankings.

>slow start
Come to think if it, I found Nier Tomato like this. Just wanted to find a place with tons of enemies and practice. It got better the further I progressed.

>dodge trap
What on earth does this mean?

>bring it
Remember Roy, YOU asked for it.

Royta/Raeng wrote:
> 14 years of discussion
Bring it.

It's fine and dandy that you folks wanna discuss this game for 14 years.
But here's my question what will happen AFTER the 14 years?

The_Lord_of_Zeal wrote:

Royta/Raeng wrote:
> 14 years of discussion
Bring it.

It's fine and dandy that you folks wanna discuss this game for 14 years.
But here's my question what will happen AFTER the 14 years?

We might have some Bayonetta 3 news by then!

> rank
As noted, even on the highest setting I'm just getting S+ constantly. I once even did a chapter on PT Ultimate (highest setting) by accident and got a full S+. It is too easy. If you use all 5 legions in a combat scenario, you basically have S+ rank.

> slow start
Here it is due to a few more problems. You don't have 4 of your 5 legions until Chapter 6. And don't get the last one until near the end. You have a gimped moveset in Chapter 1 and 2, and only have one legion throughout the first three chapters while the whole joy of the game is having all legions and using them together.
It is also crammed full of non-combat encounters, detective work, dialogue, overly long cutscenes and exposition. If I were to make a guess, the first 7 hours of the game may only have about 1 hour of fighting *at best*.

> dodge trap
It has horrible frame-data, punishable on recovery, and most enemies use multihit moves so if you dodge the first, you'll get hit by the second. Blocking with Axe, using Perfect Call Parries or anything else is better. The dodge is ass.

> I asked for it
Consider it an investment for the day you start playing NGII. Then you're trapped with me.

> after 14 years
Either Bayonetta 3 as Greg noted, or Ninja Gaiden 4.

>multi hit attacks
So these are actually impossible to avoid with the regular dodge?
I heard of something called perfect dodge. What is it?

Gregorinho wrote:

The_Lord_of_Zeal wrote:

Royta/Raeng wrote:
> 14 years of discussion
Bring it.

It's fine and dandy that you folks wanna discuss this game for 14 years.
But here's my question what will happen AFTER the 14 years?

We might have some Bayonetta 3 news by then!

Wow I wouldn't go that far, you're being too optimistic.

If they start one up close you're as good as dead unless you have a defensive plan laid out. Perfect Dodge is simply a well timed dodge that allows you to do a Sync counter with your legion. Two of these (ARMS and WOLF) have i.frames, the rest don't. If a multi-hitter happens and you Perfect Dodge into a Wolf-counter-synch, it works.

> Bayonetta 3 trailer
https://twitter.com/platinumgames_j/status/1171712884235091968
They're going to a summit for a reveal of sorts. Here's hoping!

This is the "problem" with action games - many (but not all) of the complaints people have are a result of them not knowing the finer mechanics. I was getting super frustrated with the enemies that do the multi hit attacks and thought I was just destined to be hit even after dodging, but with certain legions you can safely counter attack. Happy to say I now have one less complaint!

I keep saying it but the game really does get better the more you play. This definitely belongs in the top tier of Platinum's portfolio so far.

> Announcements
Platinum could literally announce anything and I'd be excited. I'm hoping for Bayo 3 news, but maybe we'll hear something about Babylon's Fall. It's still due for release this year and I don't think we've heard anything since the initial trailer. How on earth are they juggling so many projects at once?

Yeah the dodge in this game is a really good example of people falling into a trap like that. I like how dodge-direction in this game is important instead of it being the same dodge - statistically - in every direction. Perfect Call is really sick too though, good damage too.

I agree it really gets better every second you play it, really one of their best games especially the end-game content. Just tons of great fights.

Regarding Babylon's Fall...good point. I checked its official twitter account and it's been silent since june 2018. We'll probably just see a delay.

And regarding projects. I think they work with a lot of freelancers. That and they have nearly 230 people working there full-time. For reference, SIE Santa Monica and Suckerpunch have around 200 people as well. So they're pretty loaded with people.

>not knowing the finer mechanics
They don't seem to big on the basics either.

They form an opinion, state it as fact, then refuse to learn more. They post alongside people explaining exactly how to solve their issues. Do they even read other posts.

Imagine if I said in DMC, there was no jump and the game sucked. Then in the next post you show me exactly how to jump, but I either ignore or still say no. It's that bad.

And don't forget that if you try to explain some mechanics to them or ask them the basis of their opinion they'll call you a fanboy or say that "you're triggered lol".

That's why I've largely quit posting in those kinds of discussions. Sometimes I see a comment I feel the need to reply but I'm working on that.

I guess you can always PM them or ask them to PM you, if they truly wanna know or talk about the game or it's mechanics, that's always a good way to know about who's really interested in the game or who's there to troll.

If someone genuinely asks, I will, but I'm not going to randomly PM idiots on stuff they can read right in front of them. These types just get defensive and angry, taking it as some kind of personal attack.

A few times I've offered to PM someone who showed interest in CL and Knack 2. Very interesting responses from other board members. On the DMCV board, I owned some fool on CL and he blocked me, then I offered to PM the the guy who was genuine. This other guy got SUPER triggered and actually started criticizing me for doing this. Why, you ask? It's because these guys, trolls and so called 'vets' alike, are terrified of having the discussion moved away from them. This guy even went and found ANOTHER topic where I offered to PM someone about CL and then posted the link in an attempt to...incriminate me? This is only one case. I was abused in others.

Some messed up people out there who NEED their view to stand, even when they know it isn't true because once they've made their view public and are exposed, they would have to engage in a horror spoken of only in whispers among game boards.

Yes, the act I speak of,*makes sign of the cross* is BACKPEDALLING.

I get that Gamefaqs and Reddit are bad, but let's not have it be the focus. The sites also offer some great discussions, but mostly when the general players have left their respective boards for new pasture. Let's try and keep the discussion here going though.

Toyed a lot with the bombs from Axe Legion. It has a 2.5 second cooldown which isn't a lot, and I gave him the Perk of "FreeCall 1.5" which means the first 1.5 seconds he's out, he'll not drain meter. So I tend to summon him, shoot out a bomb, and recall him in favour of another. I then switch to for instance Arm Legion and use its 'pull' attack to lure foes in.

Another setup was doing Wolf's howl for a guaranteed dizzy, which leads to a launcher. From the launcher I switch to Arrow for slow-shot (gives a slow-bubble to everyone). Put down a mine (item) on the ground and an Axe Bomb. Maybe try and keep the foe in the air for a bit longer so I can put another bomb in. Fantastic damage. Really loving just how good items are in this game too, high damage output.

Timed Mines deal nearly 500 damage, raw. By comparison, even end-game hits of your baton barely reach 50. Think items will really shine in NURs.

>axe/bombs
I knew the axe was the shield one, but didn't know it had bombs too.

Roy, you have got to get hold of the devs and ask if they took inspiration from CL. Sword, arrow, arm, shield, speed/claw, bomb. They're all accounted for in AC now except for Thanatos but he's a secret.

Yeah Axe can put bombs in enemies during his synch attacks or on demand using Crash Bomb skill.

Diving more and more into it. Suffice to say, the game is beyond gold. Found a water-drink ingame that makes you take 30% more damage in return of getting a 100% attack boost for 1 minute. Absolutely melted the Chapter 4 boss. Started with attack and shield buff, slowshot, then unchain with Archer. Chain up his leg to stun him, then set a timed bomb, a crashbomb and let a missile flying turret out. Unchain my fist legion (which has a slow-buff, meaning each hit has a chance to Slow the foe for 2 secondes), throw 6 grenades and just as the two bombs explode I activate DT. Bye.

So many great options, also in the customization of the Legions beyond pure stats. I do feel some abilities are a tad too good while others might have done with some tweaks. Heat Chain from Wolf for instance deals good damage, but has far too long a cast time and lasts far too short (6 seconds iirc). One move might be the best in the game when mastered, and no-one uses it yet. Sword Legion has a move where he throws a large Kunai your way. When it touches you it is send back through the chain to the Legion automatically. When it touches him you need to press the Sync button and it goes back to you at 1.5 times the speed. This goes on infinitely until you miss the Sync press. I tested it at one foe and it melts. But doing it during a fight, while also attacking yourself and doing Legion inputs, it gets hairy.

Regarding Blade Mode, dove more into that as well. It is a low meter cost move with timeslow. There are foes that 'shield' others, and you can spawn kill them with this as you can kill them before they activate their shield due to the time-slow.

NOTE: found out that you can spawn kill some foes. During 'waves', when the next wave spawns, you count as out of combat and thus meter regeneration is doubled. Activate Bow and make headshots while the enemies 'spawn'. You can kill them before they are even there.

B-but...Gamefaqs said this game was one dimensional, mashy trash!

You mentioned challenge ones. You should try single legions runs. I used to do those in CL.

https://twitter.com/RoytaMustDie/status/1172906836355272704

Don't mind me, just showing a fun setup in Astral. ARM's vacuum bomb is fantastic for setups. Suck them into one area, lay down a bomb and do a huge Axe 360 for massive nukes. Surprised the game didn't crash outright.

Also found a neat grab setup:

https://twitter.com/RoytaMustDie/status/1172931322643275776

The more I test, the more I love it. Game just keeps on giving new toys.

I've borrowed a Switch for a few hours. I won't be playing super seriously though. This is really just a demo for me.

Just did the training room stuff. This game is pretty much Overlord+CL.

Moving the legion while holding ZL (or whatever these buttons are called) is Overlord's swarm command. Only difference is you can move the character at the same time, but seems difficult to do because it interferes with legion movement due to the camera.

Recalls are near identical to CL. You have instant disband where you remove them entirely from the field, summoning with intro attacks, and the pull back is somewhat similar.

In CL, you have a command to send them further away, but no instant pull back. Instead you put them in defense mode which makes them return to your side, or just move the character further enough away from the enemy.

The pull back in AC feels like a completely natural evolution of CL's mechanics, as does the summoning. These are features I would have expected in a CL sequel. Fantastic. This is where DMCV majorly screwed up.

The way the legion behaves, attacking automatically, is identical to CL, but has more attacks. Seems to do them randomly.

Also, read this interesting comment regarding the axe legion's bombs.
always launches the enemies straight up instead of blasting them away.

That's a VERY specific property. In CL, the bomb legion has the EXACT same property. You have got to be kidding. The list is getting pretty long now. There's NO WAY they didn't sit down and play CL.

I can see why they made the bomb and shield an axe legion. You wouldn't think these were its abilities when first seeing it, because if they tried to make anything like Arrogance and Blasphemy, they would have entered FULL ripoff territory. Arrogance (shield) is this weird, octopus looking thing, and Blasphemy (bomb) is a landmine turtle. The designs are way too unique. Swords, bows, and fists are all common so they could use these without worry. Flawed (claw) and Beast are similar in concept (they are fast and have claws) but look very different.

I'll probably leave it here for now. I have a few hours but it's on someone else's console so I'll lose any progress. Just wanted to test it out and I'd rather spend my only free day on MHW.

I am so happy you're getting to play Birdman. I am waiting until I know CL like the I do other greats in the genre, before I play. Also broke a ass fuck moving apartments in Denver. Shit's pricey but we have drugs so it's a 50/50

So I assume Critical Hits with Arrow are headshots, but what causes critical damage for the other legions?

If anyone is interested, see 9:45 of this Overlord review for a look at the swarm command.
I totally forgot you can also move while moving the minions, so it is exactly like AC.

Regarding critical hits, it comes from a few points:

- RNG, any hit has a chance to Crit which can be increased through Ability Upgrades (kind of like perks);
- backstabs, which means hitting foes in their back.
- special ways like hitting weakspots i.e. the head.

@Birdman

Note that Legions eventually also get command inputs like Back-Forward and 360 inputs, really allowing you to get creative.

Regarding Claw, he's an endgame-ability (Devil Trigger).

Some other things which are great, if you send the Arm legion out, he'll grab the enemy and pull him towards you (see my twittervid). I wouldn't be surprised if they really played CL, have to have.