General discussion

Ok, that explains why it felt so inconsistent. Thanks! Are there precise values somewhere?

Not that I know of, stun is generally a funky way of getting an OHKO but unless you're going for some specialty runs, you're better off using the more broken tools i.e. Armour Breaker, Sai and regular items.

Been replaying it, and it’s pretty damn fun. Blade mode is a cool cancel mechanic and the delimbs while simple, is still nonetheless a cool mechanic that does mostly add more layers to combat. The enemy design is alright. Not a fan of the qte stick mini game at all. The gorillas dudes are fun, I see a lot of people hate them but to be honest, I think they are pretty cool. Raptors are a bit too tanky imo, and can fuck with the camera at times. The camera in general is very flawed. A lot of times it’s a clusterfuck due to the emphasis on lock on(luckily enemy’s are less aggressive offscreen). The encounters were pretty fun. Favorite one so far is the one with those mini turrets security droids with some enemy’s, generally is a cool arena. I’m talking about the one in chapter 1 I think semi near the end. The game really feels like it should have wall splatting. It’s very annoying enemys can do it to you, but you can’t to them. Also feel like the game should have a gullitone throw for some reason ngl. Wall running was originally gonna be in the game but they scrapped it, which makes me kind of sad. Back to the enemy’s, my favorite one so far is the grunt with a big sword who can counterattack you. You have a good chunk of ways to approach him(hit him in his back, use your heavy tools to launch, go to a party war, etc). He’s in general hard enemy but that’s why I like him. The hammer heads are cool. I wish enemys interacted with each other more, imagine a cyborg getting in a hammer head if you get rid of their turrets, also why don’t the cyborgs use the cloak? Really could have been a cool mechanic to have it based around audio cues imo. Or maybe they use it after certain delimbs? I love certain combos such as Y(slight pause) X into Y to heavily trip enemy’s. Wish the dodge was unlocked at the start tbh. Overall, fun action game that is deeper than I think most people give it credit for.

I typed a whole reply but I think it got lost somewhere. So I'll do it again haha.

> Raptors
You can get them against a wall, that way they cannot dodge your Perfect Parry's (PP), really fun how you can use the wall that way. Also works against Monsoon. You can blademodelure him (tab BM to force him to do his jump slash) near a wall for a PP.

> mastiffs
Hated mostly for the 1.frame startup grab that needs a wiggle to escape, which is super annoying and nobody enjoys. Otherwise great enemy.

> camera
Honestly the worst ever made in my book, everyone complaining about the camera in NGII needs to play this.

> grabs/other lacking/missing abilities
Should note that the game was pretty much made in 9 months, based on what was basically a shitty tech-demo. It's a miracle it became as good as it did. It has a lot of things that would benefit from a 'Black' version or just a good sequel. Wallrun was axed, but the Sai and Pincer (though fun) are undercooked as hell. Ripper Mode is unbalanced (way better with less meter), and there's a ton of absolutely busted setups and oversights. We also lack a grab as you noted, and wall collision damage and other neat details.
Other things are just weird, like Jamming Grenades being pretty much useless. While Smoke is legit busted.

> cloak
We don't want to fight invisible enemies. Lorewise the reason is though that cloaking is insanely draining, so it's a last resort escape.

> big sword
You can infinite them if you know how (sweep loop).

> delimbs
A missed oppertunity. Really cool how you can change enemy behavior by cutting of specific limbs, but in general the effect is just 'he dead' anyway.

>mastiff
Not gonna lie, for some reason I thought you hated the enemy after reading your article on enemy design. Looking back at it you most likely meant the qte thing that sucks.

>walls against raptors
I actually tried this and it didn’t work well for me for some reason. They would still dodge, maybe I have to be like, VERY VERY next to a wall.

>infinete loop for big sword guys
I did find ways to launch them and get them to some mini loops if that counts.

>made in 11 months
The game went through a lot of changes yeah. Originally it was gonna be more of a mix of stealth and action, and then went for the more action approach. Pretty good game in the end.

MGR:R is basically the title where I made my mark, I've got well over 1k hours played in it. So If you have mechanical questions ask away, you can also refer to my 'bible' video, which on my YT. Basically a run showing a lot of little tibits while S-ranking it on a fresh rev run.

> they'd still dodge
They do, but the wall makes it so that you still hit them in their recovery, even moreso if you use the Long Blade or Muramasa. They have to be against it fully.

> stealth action mix
That was the pitch, but the truth is there was nothing. Kojima studios didn't even have a combat engine or any sort of plan, which is why it crashed. The plot also changed in terms of timeline (originally pre MGS4, becoming post MGS4).

>mechanical bible
Was watching it alot yesterday actually. That’s where I learned about being able to hit the big sword guys behind their back. Even watched that part with the first raptor encounter and learned you can dodge their balls if you are close enough. As well as their enraged mode and how that works. Cool enemy overall. Also watched some of the pain run you did for the game, I think you said you stopped due to it being overthrowing hard. Game is probably only 1 stage behind ninja gaiden 2 difficulty from what I have heard.

Question, is the lock on designed around single targets or not? Really feels like it is at times.

Lock-on is best off avoided, it gives a single target focus, but in multiman melee it really fucks with you. Ironically with bosses I ended up turning it off most of the time too for more freedom. The soft-lock was good enough.

Something I've always wondered, but never looked for answer deep enough - how do you dodge Armstrong's charge attack in Sam's dlcs when he goes in circle? First few charges were quite easy to I-Frame, but then he goes crazy with it.

> dodge
There's a rythm to it, but it's insanely hard. The general thing I always did was simply not taunt him, if you don't taunt him he's a lot more managable. If you do taunt him, you have to pray you get a loop on him with charged attacks, which kills him.

The samurai encounter is very good honestly. Love the amount of verticality in it and the enemy’s there.

Just finished the samurai village section to elevator section and it was fucking phenomenal. The samurai villians section was a great mix of stealth and combat imo. I didn’t feel like stealth was too much of a free win, yet it wasn’t useless. If I wanted to do the former it would take a lot of patience and be a bit time consuming, so I decided to stealth kill a mastiff, sneak to the other one with a electric gernade to stun him to get heavy hits in to stun him even more, while using the environment to my advantage if I ever felt too overwhelmed with the verticality by changing platforms to focus on the mastiff himself without having to focus too much on the custom cyborgs who, combined with said mastiff can give me a hard time due to the fact the former requires alot of my attention while the mastiff can grab me and jump on me during the battle with those 2. And if I do fight the mastiff on a higher platform they will throw gernades to distract me, and possibly stun me while fighting the gorilla. Only thing I wish was that there were rocket launcher dudes on some pillars just to add some more pressure and potentially encourage you to get cover so you won’t be too overwhelmed. Then we have the lift which rivals the likes of gow 3s lifts. Wish we could ringout enemy’s though. We start out a bit basic with a couple grunts and a custom dude, but then we have the robots with the big legs who can charge at us, and correct me if I’m wrong but we can’t push back due to the distance being too small(which works well in this encounters favor imo). We also have a box we can run over for a quick escape of those guys rushing. We then have the black spider robots who try to slow down the lift while some grunts come to fight us. This requires a lot of multi tasking and fast killing(which it was a bit longer). And then it ends with a hammer dude with annoying ass birds who shoot missiles, so you try to find ways to isolate you and the birds to get a quick kill BUT a mastiff shows up and we get to a new arena with some boxes we can use against the birds for height but the mastiff will be on our ass due to their agility. Fantastic fucking section and favorite part of the game so far.

> Ringouts
Would've been a neat addition, but in a game where you can kill enemies THIS fast it is also a bit of a non-issue I'd say. Once you know a bit what you're doing you can kill most enemy waves in like 3-4 seconds with Pincers, or just use the Armor Breaker and laugh.

I'd be more interested in them adding more tactical delimbs into the engine, that it is less of a kill-state and more about changing their movesets etc.

Royta/Raeng wrote:Stunning works pretty wonky. Basically every hit has a specific stun-value that fills an invisible meter, if it fills up completely, the enemy is stunned. There's a kicker though, if YOU get hit, the stun value of enemies drains pretty heavily. So it's more a reward for you playing perfect than keeping up the pressure. If you leave enemies alone for a bit it also depletes though, but getting hit really nukes it IIRC.

The exception is of course the Stun Blade, which just has a % chance of it happening.

Some hits have a lot of stun, mostly the heavy enders. You can also grind some easy quick-stuns by doing the first few hits with the pole-arm, canceled with blademode.

Do you think the game should have that meter be visible?

> stun meter
It would be nice, but honestly it's not that big of a mechanic and it's more to keep an eye on.

Correct me if I’m wrong but stun just determines when enemy’s will get their limbs breakable no? Also that mechanic in general is pretty cool and not mentioned much I feel.

That's a seperate damage-set. Stun determines when they get dizzied. If they enter a dizzy state you can do a unique QTE if you have full-fuel which is an OHKO.

>stagger meter in MGR
Birdman isn't going to like this...

When it works like a fighting game dizzy it's fine. This type isn't what I'm talking about.

I know, was just poking fun. I like how it's implemented here, rewarding aggression by giving you an instakill on most things. Speaking of, I should really replay this game and get S ranks on VH and Rev, but there are so many games and so little time.

Dont know if this is posted or not but here's a guy fighting a Boss version of Raiden and looks to be tough.

https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearrisingrevengeance/mods/426?tab=videos

TheBurningPunch wrote:

Dont know if this is posted or not but here's a guy fighting a Boss version of Raiden and looks to be tough.

https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearrisingrevengeance/mods/426?tab=videos

that actually looks awesome, thanks for sharing

That is super cool, didn't know modding came to the point that they had the ability to make new content in that way. Movesets seems like a mixture of Sam's moveset with some Raiden animations put in. Doesn't seem too hard though, guy playing is just derping around. One thing that's interesting is that nearly all his moves seem to be crushing blows, these cannot be perfect parried. These are pretty rare in the game itself.

God I love this game. So good.

Also pretty cool that his melee-moveset is based on the one from the Armstrong fight. Brings back memories.

Hello, I am basically trying an mgr challenge run with these restrictions in mind:

NG save file fresh start
Revengeance mode
No damage taken
Not buying anything in the customize window (wigs, upgrades, etc.)
Neither perfect parry nor normal parry
No cutting within blade mode (general activation still allowed though)
No sub weapons (grenades, etc.)
No stealth take downs
No life/FC upgrades from those chests
No ripper mode

Yeah I think those are all restrictions. The 3 hardest ones are no parrying, no blade mode cutting and no upgrades.
So far I made it up until mistral which is where I am currently trying to figure out a strat.
If someone got any tips for mistral, that´d be pretty helpful

If you do all fights you'll run into some major issues later-on I fear. I did "way of the blade" at the time, which was:

- No Fuel { no executions, no QTE's, no blade mode, no blade mode cancelling, no zandatsu, no ripper mode } 
- No Pincers 
- No upgrades to life i.e. Naked&Unloved. 
- No upgrades to weapons

- No wigs, subs etc ofc.

- Skills allowed for fun 
- Stunblade/ Machette only (considered the worst weapons) 
- Very Hard difficulty

And this was already the hardest run I'd ever done. I've done a general no-parry and no-dodge run as well, as well as NUR and PAIN (semi) and a fresh S rank run on revengeance.

In Way of the Blade this fight really was the breaking point at the time, was stuck there for a long ass time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ZInKE7XmU&lc=UgyBXSGEPBQGdVR49TV4AaABAg

I'm very curious how you plan on doing this run, no damage, without those other setups. You do have Pincers and Sai though, which might help a ton, as well as the ability to do QTE executions which I lacked and BMCing.

You recording the run?

>I've done a general no-parry and no-dodge run as well
Did you record this?
How did it play without them?

I plan to do no dodge in a few games. It may lead to interesting ways to avoid attacks.

That reminds me, our good friend TripleSMoon owes me a no dodge no block Bayonetta run. Time to collect.

>I've done a general no-parry and no-dodge run as well
You reminded me of a certain individual who was too fixated on 'not being able to parry yellow attacks'.

>no block
*War flashbacks*

> not parry yellow attacks
Man that takes me back, he still kicking?

> noparry and nododge
There are a few fights of it on my channel IIRC, not a whole run. No Dodge is pretty doable, since you can parry nearly everything. For other attacks you use ninja-run since Raiden is so mobile. For no-parry, it was a bit harder since you really had to dodge well and find specific ranges + dodge timings for specific moves, still doable though.

>still kicking?
Not sure. Haven't seen him post in any board I visit.

Sorry for the late reply:

I wont allow the pole arm, sai or pincer blades but I do get to keep executions. Theyre just much harder to even get in the first place now but yeah.

As for whether ill be recording it or not: I will be. Otherwise it feels kinda pointless. So far ive got 18 clips, each one being a segment of R-01. Still stuck at mistral but yeah I think the challenge will be possible. Its gonna look boring and repetetive at times but I dont want to play stylish in here, just efficiently.

Ive also learned alot about the game mechanics, though im sure it´d be nothing new to you at this point. I will still try to document it all once the challenge is over though.

---------
edit: Also as sort of proof that ive actually got something, heres a little clip of what was probably so far the hardest encounter to optimize. Just trying to scrape away the RNG by using strats to make it more consistent and easier. https://streamable.com/pl579c

Very optional but I do plan on saving all civillians. Might drop it later in the run if it gets too hard but aye, atleast I did it in this fight.

>Start by kicking the 2 guards to get their attention

> Run all the way back until the enemies lose aggro. Theres kind of a weird boundary which is honestly too annoying to explain but yeah.

>After they lost the aggro, theres a good chance theyre all lined up. If they arent, get their attention and then lose it again (so repeat the same thing is what I mean)

>If theyre lined up, just take care of them by using that one attack you see me spam in the video. Does require blade mode cancelling though after all

>From here on, its not that consistent anymore but try to line yourself behind a slider and attack, so the 2nd slider wont shoot (if youre behind one enemy, the other enemy wont attack).

>Now you can get up that building and the enemy will jump up which gives you good time to just start doing an infinite or something. As long as the enemy is positioned properly, you should be safe but it is kinda risky so be aware.

>After that, its nothing notable.

> run feels pointless if not recorded
I'm tempted to say "kids these days" paired with a "back in my day a good writeup on Gamefaqs was all you did it for" hahaha. But good that you record it, many classic runs are lost to time or lack of recording devices, which are so easily accesible these days.

> executions are allowed
That makes it far more managable. On my WoTB run the biggest hurdle was the massive HP bars of raptors and mastiffs, forcing me to abuse friendly fire and at times just very lengthy infinites (see also that clip) or wallclipping. Executions can still be pretty easy to get since they are tied also to your own healthbar, and since you're going for no-damage that shouldn't be an issue. The no-damage tag would make me lose my mind though. There's fights later-on that are so insanely lengthy I wouldn't be able to.

For example the Japanese Garden fight is a hell-hole: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJf3ezmFLL8
Once the dualkats appear with the rocketboys, and later the mastiffs, it just becomes a fucking slaughter house.

> Mistral
You can infinite phase-1 with the Palm Strike (you allowed abilities right?), phase-2 tends to skip itself though you can waltz right through since she's pretty easy in that lineair setting. What's giving you issue in phase 3, the enemy-count? I never liked no-damage tags so can't relate to that one.

Yeah I guess that a challenge run still feels rewarding if you beat it without recording. but I just wouldnt want to miss out on some chance to help people out who are doing the same challenge (helping them out by showcasing what I did so maybe they learn something)

And so far, I have only been able to get an execution once, but it wasnt even clear to me what I did and I am not really able to reproduce that chain of events. So maybe if you gave me some more in-depth advice at what triggers it, that´d be pretty helpful. The only thing that im aware of is that raptors will be excutionable after they exiting their rage I believe? Might be wrong though since im not so sure.

As for abilities, im not allowed them either because in order to get them, I´d have to enter the "customize menu" which I prohibit. I could list every thing thats a DQ but there are alot of things so I find it easier to just say the customize menu in general is not allowed.
I also forgot to list this earlier (after this message, I will edit it in though) but of course ripper mode is also restricted.

The problem in phase 1 is my DPS. I can dodge her attacks usually but she blocks alot and usually it drags out really long. So long that I just cant keep my skills high enough to endure a battle (its not even as long as the clips youve made. Just that I am not that great of a challenge runner)

Didnt make it to phase 2 yet.

> execution
Every enemy has an invisible stunbar that fills with every hit they take. When you take a hit, their stun improves slightly. If you just keep up the pressure you'll quickly be able to stun them. There's also some setups for it, i.e. Gekko's always stun when parrying their bullrush, Perfect Parrying a soldiers, Raptor's post-rage etc.

> no abilities
Then I can see Phase1 Mistral being a nightmare yeah, since you have to deal with so many factors without a solid way of locking her down. Since you also don't allow parries, you're stuck without solid ways to avoid some of her moves since you can't use dodge. This will also be an issue with Monsoon and Sam I fear. You can't avoid all their moves with just ninja-run and jumps and you can't DPS them down either. Monsoon has a few moves that are very tricky to deal with especially, even on a dodge-only run (which you don't even have). 

Can't think of a way to avoid his smokebomb into attack-rush. There's also the fact that removing his 'head' takes a very long time without blade-mode (see also: https://youtu.be/VpORMyzZw3w?si=2iAZRmIDsdwboTVH around 2:30 mark, it takes nearly 2 minutes of fighting to remove his head).

> not much of a challenge runner
Yet you're doing what could be considered the hardest run (or one of) in MGR:R haha, good way to break the ice

> no rippermode
For the best. Very weird mechanic in general imo.

>Execution
I doubt it´d even be possible to know without modding the hell out of the game or testing a heck of a lot but is there an attack which increases the stunbar substantially higher than most other attacks?
Or is it really just about damage you deal (so optimizing damage = optimizing stun bar too?)

>no abilities
So far, there hasnt been a move that I cant avoid but yeah I guess I can see how the future might not look bright. But thats my mentality. Brute force an encounter until it works.

>Smoke rush
I think I could just try to cut the grenade before it hits me and if I fail at doing that consistently, then I´ll just maintain air-time if monsoon attacks on the ground and otherwise use some ninja run slide attacks to get away from monsoon if he attacks from the air. The infinite fuel cells should help with maintaining air time as I should be able to just wait out his attack pattern by activating blade mode above him. Just gotta be careful of his lunge attack which triggers after blade mode.

By "not much of a challenge runner", I basically mean that any single and every single sentence you see my type in here: I have no idea what im talking about and just find out as I go. On a side note, I spent way too much playing the game to not have done an extreme challenge run at this point. The hardest thing I ever tried was revengeance on a NG+ save file but without wig B or fox blade and I didnt even complete that. To make up for how much ive been lacking behind, I´ll just skip foward to the good part.

> executions
It is frequency of hits iirc, best method is to just mash Square.

> smoke section
Will be curious to see how you tackle it. I remember that just to dodge his rush attack was quite difficult considering he hits quite high (can't jump all his attacks). Same with his homing-sai attack (when he disconnects, i.e. his legs come at you and his sai seperately). Will be a long fight for sure. Dual Grad will of course be a nightmare of random hits from every side, but pretty doable.

> skipping right to the good part
Did that once (Yakuza Kiwami) and always regretted it haha, I'm more of a slow learner. I did nearly 15 challenge runs of different shapes and sizes in MGR:R before I peaked at WOTB. Definitely respect if you can pull this off as your first real challenge run.

How goes Mistral?

>dodging Monsoon
>hits quite high
Would jumping in the opposite direction work if you caught which direction he was dashing in from?

about dual grads
Im not 100% sure but if enemy damage also scales with difficulty, isnt revengeance mode yet again easier than very hard? (If I position myself so the bullets hit each other and all that)
So far ive only fought 1 grad during this challenge run but god fucking, he would obliterate all my other enemies (if I positioned myself correctly)

And as for mistral, the lowest ive been able to get her health down so far was a measly 81.8% but atleast there are alot of bombs which I can use around the enviroment. If I hit them all (which can be risky but the DPS is really great), then it deals in total 12% damage (2% damage per bomb barrel). I am getting better though as time goes on.

Oh and lastly monsoons other attacks where he dislocates his body, isnt it as simple as just staying in the air? In your blademode DQ run I can see how thats problematic but I think just waiting out his attacks in the air will work by staying in blade mode.

> friendly fire damage
Not sure how that works on REV, I rarely played on that mode outside of my no-parry run since VH tends to be harder on every run outside of no-parry.

> monsoon
Can't be sure, never played around with airtime stalling tbh. IIRC you don't have blade-mode's timeslow in the Monsoon fight due to you being in 'cinematic ripper mode', but it's been a few years since I've played so I could be very wrong.

There is still slow-mo in monsoons fight. Its just that monsoon is moving really fast. But its not the slowmotion I am talking about though. If you just hold blade mode while airborne, raiden will stay afloat and wont fall, thats the mechanic I was referring to

Oef you'd have to test it. I think you'd have to gain extra air-time with subweapons like the pole-arm to get high enough.

Wow. Sure took a fucking while but I finally found a pretty good DPS strat which doesnt leave me dead if I accidently fuck the timing up by a couple miliseconds. This might actually be plausible. Gonna grind this today and hopefully in a few hours after this post, Ill have beat at bare minimum the first phase of mistral.

I finally beat mistral phase 1. God motherfucking was this difficult. The infinite combo loop I discovered is also so fucking insane. I was about to go crazy over this battle but  finally I beat it. And it wasnt even a chipping session. All I had to learn was that infinite combo loop and some general knowledge about the tripods.

Before anyone asks, yes that thing I do at the start is consistent. Just make sure you pass inbetween the 2 tripods, not between the tripod and mistral (otherwise she usually tries to start her grab, which isnt the thing I was going for)

Im pretty hyped that I can officially declare myself as having beaten mistral under this restrictions. Stoked to see where this will go in the future.

Interesting to see blademode-lure have an affect on Mistral. Never thought to use to bait her into that punishable attack, fantastic stuff! You can use it to force Monsoon to do his jump-slash near a wall (allowing you to PP him which is normally impossible). Great discovery here, hats off to you!

I dont want to spoiler the technical details all just yet but as i´m still on mistral phase 2, I think I might be cooking up new strategies that could double my already insane dps of 1% and boost it up to 2%. Pretty great stuff if I can get it consistent but that needs more testing right now. Just something to look foward to for you guys.

edit: Okay wait maybe its not just doubling my DPS but a full on infinite combo?? The timing seems to be very hard but damn this could be hella useful even outside of challenge running if it works. I should just shut up and wait until I figure this out probably

>blademode-lure
Wait is this a thing? I never noticed it when I played.

>infinite combo
Good stuff. Glad to see people still cooking up strategies for MGR.

Ok so the combo isnt infinite (from my testing). You can get 4 heavy attacks in normally https://youtu.be/kPK0RguGRhQ

So heavy, bm cancel, heavy, bm cancel and so on for 4 times until mistral jumps away. Maybe you can do it more often? The timings complex.

But if you decide to attack a bit differently than what one would usually do, you can deal just a bit more damage. The highest DPS ive reached with this strat was following:

Blade mode lure > Heel drop attack.
Blade mode cancel the heel drop.
Heavy attack, BM cancel,
Heavy attack, BM cancel,
Heavy attack, Heavy attack, light attack.

This alternative string where at the end instead of cancelling your 2nd to last heavy attack, you can deal a bit more extra damage with the light attack before mistral jumps away.

Though I am working on an even better strat right now too which is completly differnet from blade mode lure. Its rather "jumping" lore.

> blade lure
Yeah basically every enemy is pre-programmed a set number of responses if you activate blade-mode, this even works if you just tap the button (barely spending meter). Monsoon's is usually the only one we used, since it allows you to perfect-parry him (otherwise impossible). One of his reactions is that he does the jumpslash, and if you position him with his back to a wall, and blade-lure him into that slash, he can't avoid your parry (since he touches the wall).

alright its mistral phase two-ver or something.
It appears that if raiden is mid-air, mistral will do that one attack where first she does a 360 spin with her pole arm, then does like a "grappling gun" kinda move where she jumps into the air herself and then comes crashing down. That attack can get punished for a full 3%. Maybe even more but I havent been able to get that.

The infinite combo isnt as good as it would be to just pace your attacks by doing a heavy attack but with no blade mode cancel. this way, mistral gets enough time to block you but it also prevents her from running away + sets her up for another blade mode lure. Easier shown than said.

Pretty easy to be honest. The 3rd phase should be the hardest one yet though? I dont know. Anyways, atleast im making progress.

Yeah the 3rd mistral phase is the hardest. Those explosive red barrels gotta watch out for that because it ruins your S rank