New From game announced - Shadows Die Twice

Doesn't show anything that reveals what the game actually is though. Getting the feeling it's not Otogi. Definitely not something like Metal Wolf Chaos either.

I honestly hope it is just something really new, I read an article somewhere that really was quite brutal in its attack on From Soft - and especially Miyazaki - for being a one-trick pony. And to be honest, you can't blame him. Curious to see where this will go.

Their old games were really unique and covered a wide range of genres, but as far as I know none of them sold well. Kuon was a fantastic horror game so I'd like to see them expand on that.

Kuon souls, Souls Die Twice, Echo Night souls, Otogisouls, Armoured souls, Metal Wolf souls, Enchanted souls, Ninja souls AND Forever souls. That's the line up were gonna get, all their old games souls-a-fide.

Analysis time!

To begin, lets look at the background. The writing on the background has been identified as eastern in nature, with the Kanji "Tiger" being identified. Thus, this game might take place within an eastern setting, which is contrary to any of the soulsborne games. However, almost all the soulsborne games do contain an eastern origin npc, so this may be incorrect.

Continuing with the eastern origin idea, we have the winch. Closer inspection simply shows that the bloody wrapping is some sort of rope, and the winch sits inside of a bone for some reason or another. When the winch turns, we see some sort of metal on the side. someone tried to brighten and identify this object, and this is what they may have found.



A kunai. Looking at what IPs From has in their arsenal, we can see they have Tenchu, a game set in an eastern setting involving ninjas, which the kunai fits.

Now the tag line at the end, "Shadows Die Twice". This may specifically be an exact reference to the final boss of Tenchu 3, Onikage. In it, Onikage is killed, ressurected, and killed again. The name "Onikage" itself translates to "Shadow Demon".

So with all of this, tons of signs seem to point to this potentially being a revival/reboot of the Tenchu series, a very welcome concept IMO.

Other suggestions so far seem to be Bloodborne 2 (obviously for the aesthetic of the trailer itself), and Shadow Tower reboot, due to the tag line.

My final thoughts on this may be that all of the above are false. Based on the winch itself, it seems to be a technology set in the 18th or 19th century. Tenchu takes place in the 16th century. The eastern theme does not sit with anything from soulsborne, and Shadow Tower is set in a more European setting. While it seems Tenchu is the closest, analyzing an old interview with Miyazaki on upcoming games, he states that three specific titles are in production of a few others. One we know is Armored Core, one we know is a new IP that is "weird", and one is a souls spin on an old franchise. While that third statement could be more supporting evidence for Tenchu, the weird game grabs my interest the most, and this is why:

So when I say weird, I mean that the genre we're trying to try might be a little bit weird. Not only that, but all the other actual game content might be a little bit weird, yes.

Game content being a bit weird? Check. Genre being weird for them? Well being they never developed the Tenchu games in general, they just published them, this is a new genre for them, so also check. Another reason I feel it would be a new IP is because of the fact that entering a new genre (tenchu genre or otherwise), I feel Fromsoft would have a higher interest in creating a new IP first, then bringing that to an old series, much like what they seem to do with a lot of their past games.

Overall, it seems very unlikely to be another soulsborne game, that much seems certain. Tenchu seems like a prime candidate, as there has been demand for a decent amount of time believe it or not. However, it may be something totally new and unexpected. How this game has survived not getting leaked I have no idea, but either way, I can't wait to see what they have for us.

EDIT: More evidence for Tenchu. Interview from Famitsu from 2014

As to the future of From Software, Miyazaki expressed some concern at the company's focus on the trend of "dark" games. "I feel that From Software's title lineup will need a little more variation." Miyazaki said. "We have dark fantasies like Dark Souls, of course, but I'd also like for us to make more mech games like Armoured Core, or Asian style titles like Tenchu or Otogi: Myth of Demons. From Software used have a lot more rather quirky titles. I used to love such games or making such games, and I think there was a lot of stimulation and ideas that came from that."

Armored Core is already in production, so now an Asian style game would be of interest to Miyazaki.

I really hope it is just a new IP and that they are messing with people. It is a big worrying just how crusader-like the Souls fanbase is though, even a friend of mine who thinks graphics are the most important thing in the world downloaded PS1 Tenchu yesterday because "gotta see what From did in the past" only to delete it after a few seconds of bad camera, horrible combat and stealth more complex than the so called lore Dark Souls 3 had in place.

Pretty painful haha.

That said, how big is From Software? In terms of personel. Making multiple games is quite the hassle and I would be surprised if they were making a Souls title, Armored Core and this weird new game. I really do hope that if it is something new, or a revival of an old series, that they don't shoe-horn stamina, poise, lorebuilding etc in there just to pander to their Souls crowd.

Royta/Raeng wrote:That said, how big is From Software? In terms of personel. Making multiple games is quite the hassle and I would be surprised if they were making a Souls title, Armored Core and this weird new game. I really do hope that if it is something new, or a revival of an old series, that they don't shoe-horn stamina, poise, lorebuilding etc in there just to pander to their Souls crowd.

According to their official site, they have 283 employees. Judging by credits, it seems smaller teams do better when making the games (see image below). FromSoftware has a MASSIVE arsenal of games to pull from. Tenchu, Otogi, King's Field, Shadow Tower, Echo Night, Kuon, Armored Core, Steel Battalion, Evergrace, Chromehounds, A.C.E., Eternal Ring, Lost Kingdoms, and I could go on and on. They have an arsenal of games that they could do anything and everything with, and based on their history, the smaller the team, the stronger the game.

Looking at their history, they don't have a reputation of shoehorning. Stamina itself in souls was only really ever seen in the Evergrace series. Poise is entirely new in general. The lorebuilding is something mostly unique to Miyazaki, as the idea of building lore around the world map was primarily on his shoulders, and he didn't get involved with From until Armored Core For Answer iirc. From has always been more interested in new experiences when making new games. The souls series, as well as the king's field/shadow tower series, were sort of one off differences, but From does deliver new experiences as much as they can. Lost Kingdoms is still the only game of its kind and I wish we could just get a damn Yugioh knockoff of the game, but its been years and that won't happen haha.

If it is Tenchu with a hint of souls, it will maintain the spirit of Tenchu as a in depth stealth game with a high bar of mastery, and it will provide the intensity a souls game can offer. Frankly the worst part of Tenchu was always the combat, so if they replace that with souls combat, you have the best Tenchu game in history.

I trust From to do well. They rarely do poorly in my experience...despite the fact that as a kid I despised Evergrace with a fucking passion and hated that game for literally years until I picked it up last year just to see if the child me was that much different. Fun fact, it was, and from made a great game, I was just young and not that great at games lol.

Click spoiler to see credits for souls games (Demon's through Dark Souls 2)

Spoiler:

PS1 Tenchu yesterday because "gotta see what From did in the past"

I thought they bought Tenchu way later?

Tell your friend to play Metal Wolf Chaos. That shit is MEAN.

Birdman wrote:PS1 Tenchu yesterday because "gotta see what From did in the past"

I thought they bought Tenchu way later?

Tell your friend to play Metal Wolf Chaos. That shit is MEAN.

You are correct. Tenchu was purhcased after Z if I am correct. Their first game in the series was Shadow Assault, that bomberman-like game.

EDIT: Everything prior to Shadow Assault, but after Wrath of Heaven, was published by them, however.

Shadows Die Twice sounds more like a Grasshopper Manufacture/Suda51 game than a FROM title What is that bone arm blade thing anyway? Again some Suda51 shit right there, or Berserk.

Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote:Shadows Die Twice sounds more like a Grasshopper Manufacture/Suda51 game than a FROM title What is that bone arm blade thing anyway? Again some Suda51 shit right there, or Berserk.

I had the exact same thought haha, I saw the title and thought "Suda? That you"? Would be pretty freak'n insane to see a From Soft x Suda game, give me that shit today.

Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote: Berserk.

OH GOD, I FORGOT THEY WANTED RIGHTS TO THAT, TIME FOR RESEARCH

Royta/Raeng wrote: Would be pretty freak'n insane to see a From Soft x Suda game, give me that shit today.

Well Grasshoppers latest game, Let It Die, is a souls type game, very blatant and it was made instead of Lily Burgamo. Grasshopper got bought out and sousl sells so that's why it exists. Its pretty good for what its worth(its free).

Heard rumors it's going to be open world with horror elements.

Yeah apparently it is based on one of their old Japan Exclusive games called Kuon. Not sure what to make of it, but it sounds interesting!

I hope so, because I consider Kuon one of the best horror games I've played.

Birdman wrote:I hope so, because I consider Kuon one of the best horror games I've played.

Oh can you tell me more about it? Because most reviews, obviously, say it is a horrible game you should avoid. Which of course means it is a good title.

Yeah, put it on the list of other great games reviewers trash.

The graphics aren't the best but who cares?
It's a horror game with no controllable camera. It's a mix of fixed angles and the camera following you from various angles.

The game was released everywhere. The PAL version had a puzzle removed and probably something else I've forgotten. US and Japan have it. The US version is dual audio.

The cut-scenes are strange because the character's mouths don't move, like they're speaking telepathically. It seems odd at first. Not sure if this was a design choice or not.

It takes place in ancient Japan but I don't recall if it ever said when. You have melee and magic. Melee kinda sucks and barely works without trading hits. Awful collision.

Magic is like your ammo in the form of those paper talismans. You've got fireballs of various strength and other elemental attacks. Think of the basic one as your handgun. There are also others that summon a creature or lay a trap.

Enemies are various demons, ghosts, and something like zombies. I think the game referred to them as 'sick people' under some kind of curse. I know it's all story related but I can't remember it well and it was hard for me to understand anyway.

There is a noise system that can attract enemies, but as I remember it was only in certain areas.

There's also a stamina system. Continuous running will wear you down and eventually cause you to be unable to move for a few seconds. You can do meditation which is like healing but you can't move while doing it. It replenishes hp and stamina.

The atmosphere is what's really amazing though. I can't even explain it. It largely takes place in a huge mansion and a bit in surrounding areas.

There are three characters with their own paths that cross many times. I found it kind of hard to follow because they take place at different times.

If you can get the PAL version, that's still good enough. They only removed that one puzzle. Problem is this game became one of those super rare ones like Haunting Ground. The prices can get pretty insane. Somehow I got the JP version for $10 in excellent condition, but I had the US version for years because I just download and use with Swap Magic.

I will scream if this game is really Kuon related. Come to think of it, and I won't spoil anything, but Kuon's ending does look like it could lead into an open world scenario.

But is it confirmed this will be inspired to Kuon? The teaser seems to hint towards it, but did From give any confirmation?

Dark_Blood_NG wrote:But is it confirmed this will be inspired to Kuon? The teaser seems to hint towards it, but did From give any confirmation?

Apparently insider leaks which are all the trend these days. Take with a grain of salt however.