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Better Learning Trough Obsession

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1Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Better Learning Trough Obsession Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:02 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
B-Rank

Mind the hyperbole in the title.

As I think about different styles of learning, I try to project what that means in terms of action games.
Before one can play a game, the set of given rules has to be learned, not in theory but in action. The mastery of it lies in the bending of them to personal gain and advantage. A perceived effortlessness. At first tiresome and heavy lifting becomes easier and more natural with the expierience that learning holds.

What are the different styles? I ask you.

Me, I go the way of the scar. It has to overwhelm me and leave a metaphorical mark on my memory. Something that says: "No! That's not the way to do it!" Learning by mistake. To sort out what doesn't work is a safe way to get to an understanding for me. On the other hand, I don't cherish repition. Say I had my fill in clearing Hard mode, I will take a step back from it and leave it alone for a while. When I get back to it, my expierience is still there, ensured by the "scars". I don't remember my failings exactly, but I can feel them when I get in contact with a situation. There is no room for obsession over several aspects in me. I don't think finding a one solution for all situations is a particular fun thing. I do my natural best not to overthink any challenge, yet to feel my way through. For even it's a fact that games are 0's and 1's and algorithms, I don't think it's best to perceive it that way. What I need from anything to hold my interest is a feeling that I can play around with internally.

How about you?

2Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:07 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Do you mean learning as in, seeking it out or how a game teaches you things?

In the latter's case, I prefer no handholding and the game just giving it to me straight. Too many games are swamped I feel with tutorials but also those kind of "first level 101" levels. Meaning a wide open space to begin in where you can learn safely. The first pit isn't a lethal pit etc. Those kind of levels that are inspired by (the to be honest quite fantastically designed) 1-1 of Super Mario Bros. Just give me good levels.

In terms of how I handle it, having fun is the most important bit. If I'm having fun with a game, its style, levels, music, visuals and stuff I will just keep playing and thus getting better. I've forced myself to try and get into games I don't like to get good at them, and it never worked out. Ninja Gaiden 3. Street Fighter V. The second I have to force myself, it doesn't work.

For me it suddenly goes reversed, as in I look back and think "wait, that might actually be a record" while just having fun. With Metal Gear Rising I was just having a ton of fun playing while everyone on Gamefaqs was getting the Platinum. Did a NUR, then a No-dodge run, then no-block, some other challenge runs and suddenly I was way ahead of the curve. Same with Zone of the Enders 2, The Evil Within II etc. It just happens.

That said one thing I do try with games that I notice I love and want to get better at is learning from mistakes. Take a step back and look at the fight / situation and think "why isn't this working". I also always try to spend at least a good 5 minutes with a single enemy, just toy around, see what their moves are, get a 'feel' for them. I still don't know why, but I can always get a feel for what an enemy will do. Like with Eli from NG(S)2, I'll always know on instinct if she'll do her paralyze-circle or her blood rain.

Is that a bit what you meant?

https://stinger.actieforum.com

3Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty never be game over Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:13 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
B-Rank

Yeah, I wanna know what everyone notices about how they get to improve. To learn to survive.
You seem to experiment on your own, without an invitation. I guess that is part of your personality. Some may be lured into it or tricked.

I didn't think about tutorials, to be honest. I don't find them relevant, exept maybe for finer details. But how to play should be intuitive enough. Any Game Over screen should be understood as "You're doing it wrong..."
But some titles don't even have that. Thinking of that PoP restart 2008.

4Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:44 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

It's interesting you mention "part of your personality", a friend of mine is more of the 'throw dead bodies at a wall'. He was playing Dark Souls and was fighting Khalameet, the dark dragon. He was a mage and he constantly ran out of spells around 25% of the boss and then died because he didn't know the pattern.

Instead of learning the pattern, he would just do that situation over and over again, always running out of spells around 25% HP, until he got lucky with some hits afterwards. It took him literal days of grinding the encounter out, always coming "THIS CLOSE ROY, I WAS THIS CLOSE". I just cannot phantom that.

> Game Over means you're doing it wrong
To us, maybe. To many it means "I did nothing wrong, the game cheated me".

https://stinger.actieforum.com

5Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:54 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I had a friend like that but way worse because when he finally won through mashing or luck he would claim ultimate skill.

It's actually called being fucking stupid.

6Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty deep Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:52 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
B-Rank

Royta/Raeng wrote:always coming "THIS CLOSE ROY, I WAS THIS CLOSE".

Priceless. Hahahahahaha. I'll dub that in all modesty "The Lottery Style". This close, man!


Royta/Raeng wrote:"I did nothing wrong, the game cheated me".

A valid life philosophy on a grand scale. "Welp, I do quite alright. But then my mortality will cheat me of anything, won't it? It's just not fair!"



Last edited by Zenyn on Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : deeper)

7Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:20 pm

hebass


C-Rank


For me, it’s mostly about the fun...if I like the game I’ll play it and naturally get better, but my goal is not to become very good in most games, I simply don’t care how good I am...unless I have a goals within the game...which means it had better be great...or by extension...part of a series I find great.

Some games are so great that I want to do more...like only basic weapon usage runs or no death runs or don’t let go of the sprint button runs, or co op missions, or extremely difficult modes that are available...or just completion...difficulties, extra unlocks, trophies etc.

When coming across games that provide seemingly worthwhile extra content (Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 being the latest), I work harder to get better...this particular game because it has online missions...and I know it will help me in NGB & NGS. That mostly leads to repetition for me, even when I feel or know something is coming, my brain to hand coordination doesn’t pick it up immediately. I find myself saying “damnit, I knew that was coming”. Often times it’s because I haven’t found initial movement/sound from an enemy that gives the sequence away yet. In other times, I’ve found myself tricking myself to “think” I have it down because I did something twice in a row and I have to take a step back and ask myself to prove it...many times in a row.

So I try to start there...watch the shoulder, which arm is raised, does an eye blink, what happens when it jumps, are there immunities, etc. Once I feel I’ve got that down, I’ll practice it until I’ve proven to myself what that catalyst actually means...if it truly always only has one result. I try to formulate a data structure in my brain...perhaps a tree if it’s a simple state machine, A leads to B or C, but never to D. Eventually that leads to anticipation in some games based on the probabilities, some stay completely seemingly random.

But to be honest, that type of dedication is rare to me. I will only go so far before I stop going deeper...there has to be a reason. When I was younger, I had more time and less choice. Now I’m old and have less time and way more choices. The game has to be extraordinary, which is unusual for me and so I like to move on to a new game when I have the time.

8Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:47 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

Age really has a lot to do with it too Hebass, no shame in that. When I was younger I would play a game through twice in a weekend. Now I barely beat Samurai Jack once a week, if at all.

But you're really diving into NGS2 then huh? How's that going for you so far?

> I had a friend like that but way worse because when he finally won through mashing or luck he would claim ultimate skill.
I wouldn't be able to handle that.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

9Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:47 pm

Birdman


SSS-Rank

You've never seen anything as bad as this guy in your life. Like sometimes he'd beat me in a match just by random mashing and he'd do this thing where he'd say 'Retire as champ' then drop the controller and walk out. Seems he forgot the 50 perfects I got on him first.

This one time he achieved Tekken Lord rank on T5 I think and he did it by using Jack's unblockable attack over and over. It's the move where he jumps really high and stomps down. You can make him hover a little. The AI couldn't do anything about it.

This guy thought he was the best Tekken player in existence because of that. If I tried to say anything he'd start shouting 'Tekken Lord' and doing this little dance.

Then we went to this camp with my brother and took the PS2. We were playing in our cabin and there was like 30 Koreans playing soccer on the field. One of them walked past our cabin and saw us playing. Then, I swear this happened, he ran as fast as he could to the field and told the whole group and they all rushed our cabin at the same time.

We had these epic matches. It was like an arcade and they were all ridiculously good. Mr. Tekken Lord got absolutely destroyed beyond imagination. His spirit was utterly broken by the ruthless combos and he stormed out. We found him later in his room in bed facing the wall like a sulking little kid and we mocked him viciously and with great pleasure.



Last edited by Birdman on Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

10Better Learning Trough Obsession Empty Re: Better Learning Trough Obsession Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:03 pm

hebass


C-Rank

> NGS2
I stopped for now...poured months into this one and honestly, I still have a lot more to accomplish even after the 2 UN01 victories. I decided to start playing some other games...but I still would love to play more online and, on topic, continue to learn...and unlearn some bad habits.

> Samurai Jack in a week
That’s pretty great still! Lot of depth to learn in this one?

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