Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

Stealth game for PS2, and MGS HD collection for Xbox 360 and PS3.









I've got some words to say later, but first; Roy, I'd say give this one a try, it's truly one of the best games ever made, with a ton of intricacies to the mechanics, like shit tons, I'll find a list/vid. But if all these vids didn't convince you...then I don't know what will haha.

For giggles:

Fantastic game and my favorite in the series. Love the jungle setting and there are tons of ways to play.

Yeh yeh back me up fam!

Some of the best bosses around too, namely The End, who is so good I'd recommend it for a boss analysis(not expecting this at all tho, worth the suggestion), I mean it's a stealth sniper dual that truly tests your sneaky prowess, tons of ways to beat that boss(even before you fight him).

I love The Fury too, it's a nice stealth oriented boss also, a kin to Vulcan Raven in MGS1, except it's a dark arena with multiple columns that the boss lights up with his flamethrower. But you can shoot the various pipes to put out his flames. Ocelots a fun cowboy dual, I like the different ways you can annoy him, like shooting the bee hive or throw a snake at him if I recall.

What's novel about many MGS bosses is that they are all about pragmatism through unconventional use of the players inventory/moveset, the bosses arena and the bosses own quirks against them. Bosses are something unique to MGS as not many stealth games have them, and if there's one genre that's justified in not having bosses it's stealth(cuz you aren't supposed to get caught or get into fights).

MGS is a dodgey series if I'm being real. MGS1 is more like an arcade game, stealth is super basic and is used to get to and from set pieces/boss fights, which is the meat. Same goes for MGS2, it evolved the mechanics but has issues with samey level design and lacking gameplay, I play these 2 mainly for the bossfights, I've clocked more hrs into MGS2 boss rush mode than the main game.

4 has the infamously longest/most cutscenes out of any game, with little gameplay between them, so you can't really appreciate the changes and mechanics, generally lacking in its design in many areas compared to 3.
Has some great bosses, I've only played this once, I'm not watching ALL those cutscenes next time haha.

5 has superb gameplay but has issues with level design and repeat and lacking content/bosses due to it being unfinished.

Every series peaks at some point, for MGS it was 3, it just so happened to peak really really hard compared to the others:

*Has the best gameplay to story ratio, plenty of gameplay with each area being unique to all the others, some legendary boss fights(The End, The Fury, The Sorrow,The Boss).

*Has the most intricacies and thought to its mechanics, designed in a way to fully allow players to explore its mechanics.

*Great story and cast too, really goofy and charming. Notably The Boss is one of the best female characters around if that's your thing, good character anyway.

*Works well as a self contained entry and prequel that details Big Bosses fall to villainy(before 3 other games about him where made, meaning he has more games staring him than solid snake or raiden).

How is the HD version on Xbox 360? Because I actually have that one in my closet (got it from a friend once, never touched it).

Oh Snap! I forgot to mention that Roy. About the HD collection for 360 specifically, I had this version back in 2012, 1st time I played those games. I'd say get the PS3 copy instead, simply because the controls where designed for the PS2 pad so the aiming is translated poorly to the 360 bumpers(with no remapping) and you have to hold down the right bumper to aim so it's really awkward.

But both versions have alterations to the pressure sensitivite CQC inputs(I think they removed that completely, since that was a PS2 pad feature) in MGS3 if I recall, so you can accidentally slit the guys throats when you wanted to just move backwards with them or interrogate them.

HD MGS3 has some changes, from what I know they took out a bunch of extra stuff from MGS3, like boss rush mode(for some reason?. For MGS2 it remains), secret theatre(funny 'what if' joke shorts) ape escape mini game, a secret action mini game along with other easter eggs. Aside from graphical alterations I think they are faithful ports, runs solid 60fps but you might have to get used to the stiff movement of 2/3.

I'm not really informed enough to be saying any of this, I'll find a link.
Has a section that notes changes

Peace Walker is the definitive version of it, since now you finer aim due to both sticks, but it sort of results in balance changes as the game wasn't designed for that, makes it much easier as such.

And dont forget Subsistence. It made a big change to how the camera works and also added a ton of cool stuff.

>Subsistence re-release(PS2):
Yep, that's the one with all the extra noted features, so get that if you want boss rush mode, guy savage(action mini game during the prison cell if you save and reload there), ape escape and secret theater.

Bunnyhops review notes the camera changes(best video on MGS3, should convince you enough) It's useful at times too, neat how the camera changes so much.

I love the jungle too, super detailed and immersive, with all sorts of creatures to kill/capture/throw/eat, with a piece of codec dialogue for each. Tons of camos hidden all over too, again with unique dialogue for each.

As I noted in the challenge runs section, I've beaten this on a no pistol run/non lethal run since the pistols are OP outside of bosses. I don't even consider no pistol/non lethal(always shoot raikov in the dick is the exception) to be a much of a challenge run given how it's pretty much the true MGS3 experience. You don't have to use any of the mechanics with the pistols, it's difficulty is trivialised to such an extent.

So what say you Roy, care to give this game a shot? In your own time but I think you should give this MGS title a shot, it's the only one I'd like you to play. I'd recommend 5 since it has plenty of gameplay also, but you can take or leave all but 3 in my book.

As you've noted, you've only played 1 and 4, so i can see why you'd not think much of the series, but 3 is another beast entirely. Its the most realized entry by and large, and doesn't suffer the lacking amount of actual gameplay to explore the mechanics, coupled with a meticulously designed main game with a unique setting, great story and some equally well crafted bosses(The End, i cant stress that enough, article worthy i tell you) and you've got an instant classic. In terms of most improved sequels, 3 is up there with DMC3, RE4 and a few others i cant think of right now sorry haha.

As payback I'll get a copy of NGB stat!(was gonna play this anyway but I'll get it quicker). Though I suppose Chaos Theory would be more fitting as it's a stealth game, I'll get both!

Incoming transmission from Gabe, requesting response from Roy, over.
But for real sorry to pester but would you consider, eventually, trying this game? A game this good deserves at least a cursory glance and it'd mean a lot to me to hear your thoughts on it.

To call you out I don't think you've given the series a fair shot at all. As you've noted you've played MGS1, Twin Snakes(remake of 1 so not that much better or different) and 4, but so far you've dismissed the whole series to the point of calling 1 and 4 'cinematic experiences' and not even games in favour of Splinter Cell. I think all that does is undermine the actual gameplay and innovations the series does have, the bosses in particular are some of the best in gaming(The End from 3, I'll keep preaching this fam).

To be real, stealth in 1-2 isn't great, it's ultimately serviceable, but I don't mind as whether intentional or not these two end up playing more like a series of bosses that use stealth and other gimmick sections to fill time between bosses. This understanding is furthered by the inclusion of boss rush modes, which is the meat of these games for me.

Shit on 4 all you want, we agree in that it has a great stealth/combat system but little game to use it in, but it does have some good bosses and there is some fun to be had with the goofy stuff you can do. It's the reason I've only played it once and don't have much motivation to play it again, but I will next time I marathon the series.

5 is the fully realised version of 4's gameplay, has tons of gameplay but has its own issues in the form of repeat bosses(skulls unit, glorified bullet sponges) and lacklustre level design(namely the Africa levels, Afghanistan desert areas are great)

I don't think it's fair to judge an entire series based of a few entries, especially a series known for its variable quality, otherwise you might as well play DMC2/4/DmC and never touch DMC again, and by doing so missing 1 and notably 3, the unanimously agreed upon best one.

If you do play it, either get Subsistence(PS2), since it has the extra features and fixed 3rd person camera, or HD version(play the copy you have if you don't mind the awkward right bumper to aim, but it's really designed for PS2/3 pad since aiming is R1). Avoid the original release as it has a awkward fixed camera akin to MGS1-2. In the other versions you can switch camera types at will, really useful at times.

As I noted, as payback I'll get Chaos Theory and NGB, only fair of me to make such a request ;). Bunnyhop's vid(1st one I posted, critical close up) should convince you while avoiding a lot of spoilers.

I'll eventually get to it, as I have a pretty strict "every game in my house needs to be completed" rule, but right now is not the time haha. I will get to it, I promise. Will watch the video in a moment :)

Say no more, I have your word and you have mine sir, cheers.

I go by the same rule, I seldom don't complete a game, if I do i got fed up with it which is rare. Conversely I'm more prone to giving up on an activity in real life which is a big fault of mine.

My favorite game of all time. Anyone here do speedruns or challenge runs? Planning on doing a few soon.

Haven't played this in years but definitely my favorite MGS game. I'm not that great at it though.

Just ran through vanilla Extreme. Going to start a new run, ultimately I would like to do:
-Foxhound rank(no kills/alerts/continues etc.)
-No firearms
-No cig gas spray
-No CQC slam
-No “killing” The End by setting the clock ahead

Depending on how this goes, will probably go again and try without using camos, although I like how many camos grant a special function rather than just increasing the camo index.

Fantastic! I'm thinking of making a seperate section on the site for Challenge Runs, noting run ideas etc.

What other effects do camo have than just the camo%?

That would be very cool, especially with how many games on here would get so much out of it.

>camos
There’s a variety of different effects. The basic camos you start with don’t have added benefit from what I could ever tell, but ones you find and get from bosses(they all drop a camo if you defeat them by draining their stamina meter rather than their health) all do something different. One increases health regeneration, another increases stamina recovery, stuff like that. A weirder one lets you hear Kerotins’ caling(they’re a toy frog in every area, shooting every one in a run gets you the stealth suit). Then boss ones have some seriously good effects, like removing all hand-shaking when aiming your gun, or letting you you have a high camo index in all terrain at the cost of stamina.

I’ll probably end up doing a run with no camos, or at least no boss camos. Rolling this all into one run will be interesting.

Are they powerful like for instance cheat-items in Metal Gear Rising (wigs) and Infinite Ammo bandana? Or more built around the existing gameplay?

That’s actually kind of hard to answer haha. On one hand, some of them are very powerful, but they can be quite situational. There’s a camo that gives you a lot of camo in forest areas, even letting you achieve 100% invisibility with the right face paint, and it restores health while in sunlight, but it’s useless in the second half of the game, and in quite a few sections in the first half. When used together, I would say they’re essentially a cheat. Using the spider camo(~80% at all times) to blitz past enemies, and then equipping the Animal Camo to bypass the loss of stamina to aim your guns straight is quite overpowered. Now that I’m saying this...maybe I shouldn’t use camos haha.

I do like that the effects are built around existing gameplay, they don’t offer a new gimmick. The game has more than enough systems as it is, so playing around with what’s already there works well.

Fantastic! I'm thinking of making a seperate section on the site for Challenge Runs, noting run ideas etc.
Good idea. Do it.

Still learning some new things after 14 years. I’ve been messing around with different knock out methods and how long they last. Also I never knew that feeding an enemy rotten food basically makes them completely useless; they can’t hear or see you no matter what, or even focus on you during an Alert while they have a stomachache.

Hold ups are so good. The number of things you can do once one has started is insane. It’s also very interesting how useful firearms can be even without ammo because of this system, which is why I’m not going to use them during my next run. It’ll give me a good chance to mess around with some weirder stuff I’ve found, like how your footsteps are silenced when you hold a grenade that has the pin pulled.

I made a separate save file just for The End, I’m testing some stuff out. It seems that he’s more likely to fall asleep when it starts raining. I’m going to try to throw various foods/animals at him and see what he does. As much as I want to just tranq him on my next run because otherwise the fight will take a while, I know if I keep digging I can find something else that’ll take down his stamina meter quickly.

Really fun how the game has so many items that you can use in creative ways. SBK recently showed me how the Coolant Spray could be used in MGS2 in creative ways, very interesting and weird. In most games items like that would just be throw-away one time use things. But now, not so much! Let me know what you find :)

>coolant
Funny you say that, for years when I was a kid, I never bothered using it after the section where it’s “supposed” to be used. I later learned how valuable it is to stun enemies and it became a godsend. The thing is amazing during the fight against the Tengu.

Going to play later, I’ll come back with anything weird I find. As much crazy stuff has been found in these games, I know there’s more. It wasn’t until recently someone found how to catch a cold in 3, I believe.

To anyone who’s played both games, do you prefer the gameplay of 2 or 3? Or is another game in he series your favorite?

I really think The Fury might be the most underrated boss fight in the series. It’s a near-perfected take on the Raven fight from the first game. It seems most people don’t care about this fight just because it comes after The End, which I guess is understandable.

I’m finding some more tech I never knew about. Been messing around with a combo of equipping a bad camo to lure in multiple guards, then use a stun grenade to make them face away from me before it goes off. Some sections benefit from the “shoot the wall and make enemies scatter” reaction, like in the section where you get Sokolov. I’ve modified my run from no firearms to just not directly shooting the enemies, because even something as simple as shooting walls can produce so much crazy stuff. Will post more later.

This masterpiece released 15 years ago today. Gonna play through it today(like I do every year on this date).

That's really sweet! You just play the regular version or the substi-whatever edition?

Subsistence version, it’s absolutely the superior way to play. Still have my PS2 copies but I always play the HD version on PS3 now.

This game seems great but the controls are so damn weird……

Yeah it's definitely unconventional as far as stealth shooters go. From MGS4 onward the series has become more standard control-wise.
This your first MGS?

>first mgs
Yep. I can see why people love it just by the opening.

Not sure if it's such a good idea to start with 3. I think that the MGS series really benefits from being played in release order, since you'll get used to the controls better and can appreciate the evolution/differences more. Still, it's not the end of the world and 3 can be enjoyed even like this.

I started with 3 since it’s a prequel and I heard you didn’t have to play the others to enjoy the story(yes I’m going to listen to the story which means LOTS of exposition dumps). I could get mgs2 ig somewhere.

They're very connected, you'll miss out on a lot imo if you start with 3, but they're all great. Though I do feel the first game has the least mechanical depth (would loved to be proved wrong though).

Aight then, I will take your guys advice, all I need is to get a ps1 and we’re good.

>controls
Just stick with it, luckily they only get more conventional after 3.

>first game has the least mechanical depth
By a large margin. It can't be overstated how massive of a jump MGS2 was.

What version are you playing btw?

You can play MGS1 on PS1, PS3, PS4/XONE, PS5/XSX and PC.

>weird controls

The control scheme of mgs3 is pretty much similar to mgs1 and mgs2.

I say that mgs4 is the game where controls feels so weird because you need to press r1 to cqc instead of O or square button..

MGS3 is wack if you play it outside of native hardware imo, since it was really built around the pressure-sensative stuff which modern consoles lack. Doing some actions on an Xbox is legit a nightmare imo until you get used to it.

alright so who are the brave soldiers jumping on Delta to save the rest of us? i assume Infinity will but who else? i'll be handing out Purple Hearts in advance.

I’ll be the one to sacrifice myself.

something about metal gear solid 3 hd edition on 60 fps feels wrong. like for example

pressing the select button for radio takes 2 seconds (it takes that long almost like a slowdown)

the running animations of naked snake (even though mgs3 hd runs on 60 fps it still feels like hes running at 30 fps) and the worse lip sync in cutscenes (compared to mgs2) are also bad.

its like the game wasnt even meant for 60 fps.

yeah there is a delay when bringing up the radio, i have no idea what you're talking about with the running animation or lip sync though