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Ace Combat series

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1 Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:22 am

Birdman


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2 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:06 pm

Bought AC4 on a whim. Should arrive in a few days!

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3 Re: Ace Combat series on Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:44 am

Birdman


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4 Re: Ace Combat series on Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:15 pm

Lemmy

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Ah, so the Ace Combat festivities have started I see!

Long-time Ace Combat player here, I've started playing the series with Ace Combat 2, 21 years ago now, buying it because the box art looked cool was definitely one of my best decisions ever!

For anyone who's interested in getting into this series, it could be a good idea to watch this video by two of the biggest Ace Combat Youtubers out there, Ace Combat Fan and Tomcat171, it's a great introduction to the series. It does spoil some story elements, being more of a way for people interested in Ace Combat 7 to catch up with the series in terms of lore.



Also, here's the latest Ace Combat 7 trailer that was released, if you want to take a look at it.

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5 Re: Ace Combat series on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:58 pm

As noted I will be booting up AC4 soon, can I just jump in or is there something I should know first? :)

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6 Re: Ace Combat series on Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:40 pm

Birdman


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I know it has a tutorial mode so you want to do that first because from what I've seen there are moves you need to know like if someone's behind or avoiding a missile lock. That and general flight control.

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7 Re: Ace Combat series on Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:52 am

Yeah I'm going to be diving into the tutorial, that's for sure. I've never played a single game like this so I'll really be out of the loop. Fun though, something new!

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8 Re: Ace Combat series on Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:19 pm

Lemmy

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Yeah, as Birdman pointed out, there's a tutorial you should follow, flight games are pretty unique so they take some getting used to, even if it's pretty arcade.

As for advice of my own, there are two control schemes in the game, one is called Beginner while the other is Standard (Or Expert, I'm not too sure anymore), basically what they do is that Beginner controls simplify things for you, pushing the stick to the right will make your plane go right without any further input from you for example. Meanwhile, Standard/Expert makes your plane roll to the right instead, and you then have to push the stick down to pitch up and go into your desired direction. It takes some time getting used to it (At first you'll probably go barrel-rolling for a while), but when you get accustomed to that, you get much more precise control of your aircraft.

My advice is to try and use Standard/Expert controls when you feel confident enough for it, the payoff is very worth it since it gives you a lot more possibilities when it comes to maneuvering your plane.

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9 Re: Ace Combat series on Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:30 am

Birdman


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Damn it it seems the PAL versions of the PS2 games are all 50hz. It's too hard to import a US version. Takes months to arrive.

I might try an ISO but the PS2 I have for running Swap Magic is breaking down and barely loads anything.

Might wait and start with AC7. It will have multiplayer right? How did it work in previous games? Can you form squads or have 1v1?

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10 Re: Ace Combat series on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:16 am

Would you recommend I just start on Expert? I tend to not like to switch controls, rather just start it out hard.

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11 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:36 am

Got my copy for the cheap. 2 bucks! I didn't end up playing it though (just boot it up to see if the disc worked and browse through the menus) since I wanted to watch a film with my girlfriend. Have to say the game already won big points with me by allowing us to set it to a better metric system.

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12 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:47 am

Birdman


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I imagine it would be better to start on expert. It sounds similar to DMC's easy automatic. Not the kind of thing you want to get used to.

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13 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:18 am

Yeah I figured, immediately switched it. It is called Normal and Easy btw in the version that I have.

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14 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:48 am

Birdman


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Your country uses PAL right?

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15 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:55 am

Yeah man. 50 fps for life.

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16 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:59 am

Birdman


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That's why I'm not going to get the PS2 ones. Only solution is import the US version but it's too much trouble. Might grab the Japanese version of Zero for Christmas though.

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17 Re: Ace Combat series on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:09 pm

Lemmy

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Ace Combat 7 is indeed confirmed to have Multiplayer, although as of now, we only know about a typical Deathmatch mode in it, with two teams of 4 pilots facing each other.
Past games in the series had various modes such as Co-op (Up to 8 players tackling a mission together, although it's generally 4 players at most), Capital Conquest (Two teams of up to 16 players trying to defend their base while destroying the enemy's) or Naval Team Deathmatch (Two teams of 4 players trying to destroy the enemy's entire fleet before their own fleet is destroyed), but there's no guarantee any of these will return just yet.
In any case, it's mostly squadron-based modes, which will likely happen again, although you can always do private games to make it one-on-one if you so desire.

And yeah, I do recommend starting with the Expert controls (Or Normal) to get used to it, mastering that mode should be your end goal so the earlier you start it, the better!

The series does allow to switch between Metric and Imperial systems, yeah, which is great! The only drawback to that is that you're sometimes given altitude restrictions, and the dialogues almost always give those in feet, so for the record, 2000 feet is around 600 meters and 5000 feet is about 1500 meters, those are two restrictions that are used a few times in 04 and 5, best to keep those in mind.

I've never actually noticed the 50hz when playing, but that might just be because I'm that used to it.

Also, the top AC Youtubers have just released a video of their first lesson for newcomers, centered around aircraft control in various situations, you might be interested in it!

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18 Re: Ace Combat series on Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:57 am

Birdman


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Nice video. This is just what I was after.

I might grab Fires of Liberation.

Multiplayer
I don't normally like multiplayer, but the idea of a squad of fighter jets sounds freakin' awesome.

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19 Re: Ace Combat series on Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:57 am

I played three missions in AC4 including the tutorials. This might shock you but I actually died in the tutorial. I was doing some bombing runs and suddenly the game went over to auto pilot and rammed me into a mountain. Glorious.

The missions were good fun so far and the anime-cutscenes are very endearing. The story itself isn't too special (yet) with the ISAF and so on. Gameplay-wise it is great, but the main difficulty comes from controlling the thing so far. I haven't gotten any damage yet and am getting straight A ranks without a clue on what makes for a good rank. The soundtrack is really cool. A bit sad it is all first-person though, would've liked a cockpit view or third person camera. Or is it in there somewhere but I don't know how to get it working just yet?

Cheers!

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20 Re: Ace Combat series on Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:40 am

Birdman


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Ive watched vids of various AC games and they all seem to be able to switch views. I wouldnt be able to stand first person all the time.

Lemmy, I like the idea of co op but how are vs battles? Specifically 1v1. I see you can escape missiles, so would 2 good players go about actually landing a hit without going in circles?

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21 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:58 am

Played some more, getting more into it. I do feel like there's an invisible wall in the ceiling or something, have the feeling something is sending me back down if I try to loop. All in all really fun so far!

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22 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:41 am

Birdman


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Did you get out of first person?

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23 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:05 am

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that. Just press Down on the Dpad fixes that.

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24 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:28 am

Birdman


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How would you compare the gameplay, at least in terms of movement to say, Star Fox? That's probably the only flying game I've ever played.

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25 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:54 am

Hard to say, as that series was always on-rails from what I recall. It controls a lot differently, but very similar to Rogue Leader (if you've ever played that). Controls are harder though, never had this much problem with RL (play it, it is probably one of the best GC games).

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26 Re: Ace Combat series on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:26 am

Lemmy

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Sorry for the delay to respond, I've been pretty badly sick these past few days, now to answer your questions...

I'm not too surprised about you dying in the tutorial, especially if it's because of the autopilot taking over! The number one cause of death in any Ace Combat game is usually crashing into something rather than being shot down!

Your rank is purely based on how many points you can accumulate by shooting down enemies, enemies that appear in red on your radar are mission critical enemies, destroying all of those ends the mission so if you want to improve your ranks, you need to take care of the other targets first (Those that are in White, Yellow or Orange on the radar, the colors indicate roughly how many points they're worth, and locking on to them gives you the direct value), some missions are timed and just require you to get a certain amount of points before the timer ends, the more points you get above the required ones, the better your rank, the game always tells you your current rank next to the points so you can have an idea of how far you are.
As you've found out since then, yeah, you can change the view by pressing Down on the D-Pad, for the record, pressing Up triggers the autopilot which stabilizes your aircraft, it can be useful at times.

Birdman, straight deathmatches don't tend to work too well in Ace Combat since avoiding missiles is relatively easy so it quickly devolves to what most of the community calls circlejerking, just two pilots making circles without being able to hit until one of them screws up or someone else interferes. The objective-based PVP modes are a bit better since having an objective to fulfill means you can't waste time just going in circles.

As for the flight ceiling, yeah, there's one of sorts, most planes will stall once you reach about... 12 000 meters, I believe? It tends to vary between games so I'm not entirely sure of the value for 04, but even at lower altitude, if you don't have enough speed, you'll stall before being able to complete a loop, so basically, push those afterburners to the limit and gain speed before starting your loop and you'll be able to complete it without stalling.

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27 Re: Ace Combat series on Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:11 am

Birdman


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How's DFM in Assault Horizon? I was watching a video of it and it looked cool but at the same time seemed like it might be similar to a QTE and somewhat automatic.

Edit: some more questions about 1v1 and other odd stuff.

1- If you cant get a lock with missiles due to the turning angle, are machine guns of any use?

2- Can they keep looping each other too? Can ypu stop a loop and fly in another direction?

3- if both are circling is it possible to slow down to let them move ahead, then accelerate into a sharper turn toward them as if to cut them off?

4- Can missiles be used without lockon?

5- It it possible to cancel all acceleration and just drop? If you've seen The Sky Crawlers you'll know what I mean.

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28 Re: Ace Combat series on Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:51 am

Played the game some more, really enjoying the dog-fights the most. I assume it is impossible to kill members of yellow-squadron? I tried and they 'magically' dodge everything I do.

The things I dislike the most is air-to-ground combat, feels very wonky to me still.

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29 Re: Ace Combat series on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:52 am

Birdman


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One thing I've seen in a lot of videos is it's hard to see the ground stuff. A lot of players, whether they're bad or not I can't be sure, seem to like flying pretty much at near ground level to hit ground targets. unless they're in first person.

I did see someone fly up then fly directly downwards from above a base, raining missiles down. That was cool.

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30 Re: Ace Combat series on Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:02 pm

Lemmy

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Birdman:

DFM in Assault Horizon is pretty much the one reason most veteran Ace Combat players dislike the game. It does look cool and all, but what it mostly does is make every single playthrough of any mission extremely similar since you are forced to go through the scripted sequences everytime, and main enemies are pretty much immune to all damage until you initiated DFM and saw the setpieces linked to it.

As for the other questions...
1- Guns can indeed be very useful, they require skill to use, but they can shred an enemy very quickly if you manage to keep them in your sights for a few seconds.
2- You can of course break off from a circle fight, but you have to be careful not to expose your back to the enemy as you do so, but taking some distance can indeed serve to reset the field.
3- Yeah, you can do that as long as you don't stall in the process, it won't help much if the enemy is also trying to slow down for tighter circles though.
4- You can fire missiles without locking-on, yeah, if your aim is good enough, you can get kills like that, it can also be used to fire air-to-air missiles at ground targets, and in the same vein, you can drop bombs on enemy planes if you're very accurate.
5- You can't go instantly from full afterburner to zero acceleration, but you can perform High-G turns that make you lose speed very quickly, and in the games that allow customization, you can add parts that increase your braking.

Royta
Members of the Yellow Squadron are invincible until Mission 8, Shattered Skies, in that one, you can hit one of them (They're very evasive though so closing in and using your guns is your best bet) to make them all retreat. Later on you'll have real fights with them.

As for air-to-ground, it's mostly a matter of practice, I tend to use LASMs (Long-Range Air-to-Surface Missiles) so I just toss a missile from 8000 meters away and focus on other things, but with sufficient practice, you can toss unguided bombs from afar and clear clusters of enemies that way, the smaller versions don't have a huge radius, but once you get access to UGBLs they have a very respectable area of effect.

Also, while I think about it, here's AC7's latest trailer, focused on aircraft customization!

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31 Re: Ace Combat series on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:10 pm

Birdman


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Does stalling make you drop like a stone?

Can you recover from stalling? Can you shoot while stalling?

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32 Re: Ace Combat series on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:42 pm

Lemmy

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The effects of stalling depend on the game, in Ace Combat 2, it instantly pointed your nose towards the ground, in 3 (Which had the most unforgiving stalling mechanics in the series) your plane just stopped and slowly turned towards the ground, which made gaining speed to recover from it extremely difficult.
In the recent games (PS2 Trilogy onward), stalling tends to be pretty forgiving, it just stops you there and points your nose towards the ground, at high altitude, it gives more than enough time to recover, at low altitude, it can be a death sentence though. And of course, if there's a missile on your tail as you stall, you're eating that one unless you use Flares (Which are so far available only in Assault Horizon and the upcoming 7).

But yeah, recovering from a stall is generally as simple as pushing your acceleration to the max for a few seconds to regain control, and you can indeed shoot while stalling, so if you manage to get an enemy to overshoot, you can take the opportunity to get a lock on them.

Ace Combat 7 will actually feature Post-Stall Maneuvers, which are apparently a tool skilled players can use to turn things around in a dogfight, and has been shown to be used with great effect in a gameplay video, here's the trailer on these.

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33 Re: Ace Combat series on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:46 am

Birdman


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Looks similar to this clip from The Sky Crawlers. It looks like the plane pointed upward and slowed right down so the one chasing flew right by it.

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34 Re: Ace Combat series on Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:47 pm

Lemmy

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Yeah, Project Aces (The team behind the Ace Combat series) actually developped a Sky Crawlers game for the Nintendo Wii, Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces, and it had maneuvers like these you could perform, it's actually quite possible that this system was the foundation for Ace Combat 7's Post-Stall Maneuvers.

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