Chatting about games

>Returnal
I watched a bit of gameplay footage, seems like it could be cool. IDK though, it's really hard for me to get a sense of the difficulty from just watching people, and bullet hell patterns in full 3D are kinda weird. I don't have a PS5 so not getting it anytime soon anyway.

>roguelite
I am 90% sure they are doing this to "sneak in" the arcade structure of short-ish attempts, high difficulty, and so on. In this article they talk about having to drop arcade style shooters because the sales weren't enough to pay for development.

For whatever reason people will buy roguelites even if the gameplay, pacing, etc. are worse than an arcade equivalent, so thus you see this type of roguelite with relatively low randomization and smaller power gaps between items. I call this the "I hate that I'm a roguelite" style, Monolith is another example of it.

>put off by roguelite mechanics
Yeah same here, they are really annoying most of the time and have the potential to assassinate any sort of thoughtful level design or pacing.  Traditional roguelikes (nethack, DCSS, etc.) seem like they would be fun though, I think the problem is this splitting of the difference where you get the downsides of the heavy randomization without the benefits.

>Returnal
A few years ago I tried some rogue-likes but I couldn't stand that design, so I decided to ignore them. Returnal is a rogue-lite but I would have more or less the same problems with it. And besides it's difficult to understand if it has enough depth to tolerate its design. Reviews are almost always overhyped so I don't have a clear impression of it right now.

>Persona
>dislike
Such as?

>Returnal
Not playing as some ugly old woman. Doesn't look good anyway.

>roguelike kills interest
Same. I hate them actually. I like to just play with my tools and test stuff for hours. Can't really do that in these though.

My biggest gripe towards Roguelites is that they are technically bad arcade games. One of the beauties of arcade-games is their extremely tight design in every area. Level, enemy, movement, character - because it is so tight and well crafted, they are usually short but there's a ton to explore. In these Roguelite games elements are randomized, which leads to very poorly crafted levels and uninteresting enemy-compositions.

> put off by a subgren
Add it to the list of "Metroidvania", "Action RPG" and "Soulslike" for me. I just want a finely crafted lineair game

>dislike strikers
The game is just absolute chaos to me. Dozens of enemies, bombastic music, characters literally never shut up, the visuals are overkill. I love Persona 5 but this game just takes it too far.

The combat has things I like. You can do certain strings to get a “free” spell(doesn’t cost SP) so you’re encouraged to go for risky combos to be able to perform more spells. The game is just so cluttered and enemies never seem to suffer any hitstun and it just makes everything seem like a mess. There’s different characters to swap between but I had a hard time getting significant use out of any of them. Level design is super bland, but there is some environmental stuff you can trigger which all have a different element attached to them, which is kind of neat.

It really tries to carry over fundamentals of Persona, like exploiting weaknesses and hitting technicals, but it just came across as sloppy because of how much junk was on the screen and how the enemies don’t react to much of anything except their weaknesses.

Take everything I’m saying with a grain of salt. I don’t think I got even halfway through it.

>roguelites
Agreed about them not feeling well crafted. Also completely agree about not being able to experiment. I lose interest in most roguelikes faster than anything else. Spelunky is the only one I’ve ever loved.

>finely crafted linear game
Maybe one day. But the future looks grim...

Did you check the playlist I posted on the previous page? Looks like enemies are really susceptible to status effects. There's a sleep build.

>I just want a finely crafted lineair game

You my friend, would love knack 2

Tried to tell him.

I HAVE IT INSTALLED I JUST KEEP FORGETTING ABOUT IT OKAY T_T

>Returnal
The bullet spread attacks from the boss fights look cool but I'm not drawn to anything else.

Been feeling the "old game vs new game" dynamic with these PS5 games. It's like okay there's Returnal, well I'll be satisfied finishing Gunvalkyrie this year instead. RE Village? Well, I'll be checking out Darkwatch. heh

You know we haven't talked about dodging bullet patterns in 3D that much. Always thought P.N.03's interlinkable dodging moves in play against the final bosses multitude of beam attacks were the high standard to reach for that type of action.

>Gunvalkyrie
Wait someone else knows this game???

Yeah. 6th Gen. Sega. XBOX. I know.

Good game. Chain dashing hurt my fingers though. Never finished it.

Subscribed to GamePass. There was a magazine in the Netherlands that actually mentioned Stinger Magazine (so proud haha) and I bought it. Inside was a pretty good exposé on Gamepass and it really made me want to try it. So far it's....actually really good.

You've got a huge list of games so it really is a gaming-netflix (for all the good and bads). My fear remains that they'll end up making games for it exclusively in the future, but as it stands now it's a great value way to just try out games you'd normally never buy.

Tried The Messanger (didn't like it), Cybershadow (fun, but played a trillion just like it), River City Girls (no) and Ryse (fun enough that I'm playing it). Ryse is so weird. It's this almost Call of Duty interpretation of the Roman Empire with DDR combat. It has some fun stuff to it and the kill animations are pretty cool. It's only a few hours long so I'll probably beat it today.

> My fear remains that they'll end up making games for it exclusively in the future
This, but also finding games I like and then they get removed.

>cyber shadow
It doesn’t get legitimately good until over halfway through, and at that point you probably won’t care.

>didn’t like the messenger
And you didn’t even get to the bad part!

I’m debating whether or not to keep using gamepass. There’s something about not owning the games I play that just doesn’t sit well with me.

That said, there is validity in the system and I hope it will also stear developers to make their games more compressed in some areas. Because currently the idea of downloading nearly 90 gigs of data for a single game isn't really enticing anyone.

Netflix was something I was against originally as well, and while I still have my gripes about it especially now that it's getting a lot of 'single-show' competitions, it is a nearly complete part of my household. Want to watch something when bored? Netflix. Watch while cooking? Netflix. Bed? Netflix. We don't have a single DVD player anymore. No tv in the bedroom like I used to, just an iPad with Wifi etc.

I do try and own every film I love on at least DVD but...yeah. I wonder how this will go.

> Cybershadow and Messenger
It just felt, and don't take this the wrong way, but like: "we grew up liking game-x, so we made a game just like it without really understanding what made it great, so we just added a ton of cool visual effects and music and a ton of modern dialogue boxes and let's go". I mean, it works. It looks super cool. Just doesn't hit me in all the right places though.

> owning games
100% agree. For me this is more a '12 bucks to play games I'd never try otherwise' thing. I think it'd be a good deal if it also gave you a discount on a game you'd played for a bit or something if you wanted to own it.

>making more compressed games
I hadn’t thought of this, but yeah, good point. Downloading a 100gb game on my 512SSD sucks. Especially if I don’t like the game enough to play it often. Then I have to uninstall it and re-install it later which takes forever.

>cyber shadow and messenger
Oh I completely agree with that. It’s the same thing a lot of retro metal bands or whatever; they put their inspiration out front and center without having their own substance, or really understanding their inspiration at the core. In the case of both these games, the inspiration was OG NG, but it’s like, since when was NG a metroidvania? It’s the same thing with a lot of throwback FPS, they all scream “we love Doom and Quake” and to me, that’s about as far as it goes.

> Gamepass
It's excellent value, but I share the same opinions on not owning the games. With so many games having additional content, and my personal preference being to buy the ultimate/complete/GOTY editions of games, playing games on Gamepass when they're just the base versions puts me off. The fact you can buy DLC for games you don't even own does not sit right with me at all.

Gamepass including EA Play is, again, excellent value. I'm not sure whether to subscribe to EA Play for a few months to play Knockout City when that comes out in a few weeks, or whether to just buy it. I'm leaning towards buying it, so I'll probably just have to pray that the cross-platform feature keeps the multiplayer going.

I love Netflix and Spotify for videos and music, but have no interest in Gamepass for games. I worry about how subscription models will change gaming, but don't worry about it for other entertainment mediums. Am I being hypocritical because I care most about games? Probably!

>Gamepass
Isn't this the thing that doesn't have Loliipop Chainsaw?
Game PASS is right. Which is what I'll be doing.

> GamePass
Yeah one thing that is really off putting to me is not having the complete version. Wanted to try out the Power Ranger fighting game only to have half the game be locked away since it wasn't the full DLC version which sucks.

That said it is a nice stream of unique games. STEEP is joining next week iirc and I always wanted to give that game a shot. Ryse is...fun. Can't believe I'm saying that. Game looks gorgeous and has quite fantastic levels in terms of variation. Combat has a nice DDR-flow to it. Just don't play it too long imo, one hour per day is the max I can handle since it can get quite repetative.

>It's this almost Call of Duty interpretation of the Roman Empire with DDR combat.

I don't know what to say to this.

Yeah it's really weird to put into words. It takes place in Rome but its depiction is almost comedically bad with how shiny and beautiful the romans are (yet they talk British i.e. "come on lads"), with the armour being almost sci-fi. There's constant interruptions, even a freak'n "normandy-esque invasion" sequence.

Combat basically gives you five options:
Attack, Parry, Stun, Roll, Execute.
If you attack, the enemy will eventually dodge. If that happens you do a stun. If they attack you press parry. If they do a red-attack, you roll. If you attack enough you can execute them, which gives a QTE.

The entire game ranks you based on your input precision. Parry 'normally' and you get little points, perfect parry however and you get a ton of points. Do the QTE normally little points, perfect time the inputs and you're showered in them. It's literal DDR sans the button prompts.

It's honestly...pretty fun somehow.

>It's honestly...pretty fun somehow.

But you just described the ultimate gaming nightmare.

I have no clue man. There's a certain zen state to playing it in short bursts. Trying to get all 'perfect' scores, the blood and gore everywhere and honestly quite varried locations as noted (lots of games can learn from this game in that regard, it really has great looking vistas and offers great variation in them).

Not saying it's perfect, but it's a lot better than people give it credit for. As noted though you really shouldn't play it for long sessions.

Hmm, I don’t know, sometimes you can like a game that you really feel you shouldn’t enjoy at all. We all have our guilty pleasures.

That being said, I’d be lying if I said I was enticed by this game at all, haha.

Ironically one thing that really appeals to be about it too is how it's a modern game that's basically all gameplay. There's no real slow-walking, the first cutscene last less than 20 seconds before you're thrust into gameplay, there's no upgrades that really matter (just generic extra lifebar stuff). It's just pure game from start to finish with the occasional cutscene (which you can just skip).

Apparently Bick really loved it too (which might not be something in my favour haha). But yeah, I'm having fun with it. If I still like it after completion I might do a run through on the highest setting, see how it holds up there.

>Apparently Bick really loved it too

Maybe this was the game that made him spiral.

If your youtube commentaries get really weird soon, we will send help.

If I start tweeting about poop it might be wise to call assistance.

>We all have our guilty pleasures.
This is beyond that.

>If I start tweeting about poop it might be wise to call assistance.
It would be my pleasure to knock some sense into you.

I must have missed something with Bick.

>no guilty pleasures
Not one?

Ok I do. Edited that. Probably everything I play. I don't actually agree with this term though. It's just what the majority would think.

But the way he described it sounds like a horror show.

All jokes aside, considering all the niche loves here liking Ryse: Son of Rome hardly seems a stand-out. It isn't nearly as offensive as some other titles these days.

I admit I made it sound a bit worse than it is, but I was actually looking forward to playing it today if you can believe it.

I nearly bought Ryse on PC a few weeks ago. It was £3 or something silly like that, but I forgot about it and when I went to buy it it had gone back up to full price (which I think is only like £8 on Steam). I've got so many unplayed games that I'll wait 'til it's on sale again to pick it up. I thought it looked kinda interesting.

>I admit I made it sound a bit worse than it is, but I was actually looking forward to playing it today if you can believe it.

I know what you're doing. You're trying to make me curious enough to look into it.

I've often seen Knack 2 and more commonly Lollipop Chainsaw referred to as 'guilty pleasures'. What does this really mean? Bad but you play it anyway? Embarrassing to play in front of others? A game people think is bad and just throw out this term (like clunky, outdated)?
Neither is true for me. I consider them two of the best.
If someone IS embarrassed to play them in front of others then they have issues.

It's just a sentence some people use to joke around liking something while being ashamed for liking it.

It's used seriously too.

Yeah but so is "dated mechanics", people use all sorts of terms in dumb ways. Don't look for too much behind it.

Infinity_Divide wrote: Downloading a 100gb game on my 512SSD sucks. Especially if I don’t like the game enough to play it often. Then I have to uninstall it and re-install it later which takes forever.

That's what I thought in 2012 when the new gen machines were available, if in limited quantity. I said 'Wait a minute, that's something that doesn't feels right with me!'. And the answer was 'Dude, c'mon, like, get with the program, man! Don't be weird or anything.'
After that I was 'Like, whatever, chumps. Just dump your own beds.'

>guilty pleasure
Just something that you think is bad, but like it anyway. Something YOU think is technically bad, not what other people think.

>dated, clunky
If I continue to see these words used to describe gameplay I’ll go insane.

> guilty pleasure

In addition to what Infinity said, I'd also describe it as something that you might be embarrassed to be playing when other people are watching. There's always the feeling of someone judging you for, say, the possible reasons that you enjoy it. It's not a problem for all people, but I don't blame others for being self-conscious.

> dated, clunky

Overly vague, and general descriptors. Basically just used when people can't be bothered to elaborate. Like, is the movement imprecise? Is the act of hitting an enemy unsatisfying, and weightless? Are the physics questionable? What?

>Just something that you think is bad, but like it anyway. Something YOU think is technically bad, not what other people think.

What if a game has tons of good stuff mechanically but also maybe a few bad aspects that prevent it from being great and you play it anyway based on its merits and try to find ways around the bad like Project Altered Beast?

>There's always the feeling of someone judging you
This is the case for every game under the sun. Go on Gamefaqs and you can get abused for posting about any game popular or not.

That aside, been toying more with Ryse. It keeps surprising me.

You have a limited ranged weapon that you can refill at certain story points. When thrown at enemies with shields it destroys their shield instantly. When thrown at an enemy without a shield, he dies instantly. Fun touch.

Later Praetorian enemies are pretty spicy too, very agressive and high defence. Had to start using the ranged weapon against them since I had ignored it until now.

Continuing to go through my games every weekend to see what's worth keeping.

Tried to play Automata but just can't. Weird game. I like many aspects but overall I feel bored playing it.

Dragon Quest Heroes is way too grindy. Like in this bad way.

Now trying Kingdoms of Amalur Remaster. Played a little before. It's got tons of build variety but the load times are hideous.

Let's chat about FPS design. After beating Darkwatch I'd like to discuss how similar/dissimilar that experience is to RE Village, which 3 people here played. Both have vampires.

What new features to the FPS genre does RE Village offer?

In Darkwatch

-Darkness good, light bad deactivates your vampire power of regen health and special powers ala cancelled Resident Evil 5 'sun hallucination' game feature. 1 level only. Might have not been deemed fun and/or too much coding and got dropped. Makes sense since it essentially turns player into a turret (the good powers are less useful for close combat, the evil powers are useful); additionally, enemies are far too numerous and aggro to make running to a different dark area safe.

-Leaning Ability on foot (camera angle + avatar roll - useful for sniping) and on horse (well, for the horse it's a full tilt over on the side of the horse to avoid gunfire).

How well does RE Village alert you to presence of flanking enemies? Visually. For sound I'm sure there is good use of PS5 3D Audio to infer where enemies are, while Darkwatch has Doby surround sound... Found myself getting hit by lone enemy that rushed silently into my space. Poor peripheral vision. Can't do much about this. Forced to wave the entire camera view around to check sides. Additionally, there were occasional random spawn points that challenged my awareness. Shooting enemies has good controls but odd involuntary pulling of the camera (way stronger than aim assist) when either struck by an enemy surrounding mobs or vulnerable to attacks on your periphery.

There is difficulty seeing when it comes to looking at multiple enemy locations as the camera has to make wider sweeps than it would in third person; plus,  It makes it more jump-scary but without the scare factor here. Enemies attacking at sides indicated by red visual marker/cursor, which is unlike RE4 where it is clear where enemies are striking from and each time you are struck, plus they give you space instead of trying to attack you in a glued-on proximity. Generally enemies stream towards the player in easily seen formations. Small fully-mobile enemies, mobile TNT-carrying enemies, bulky-fast enemy, large enemy, flying enemy -- game tends to mix in two types of enemies to fight simultaneously.

Lots of close quarter action where headshots are priority with regular weaponry. Rockets either too dangerous to fire off or wildly ineffective as enemies auto-juke out the way. Enemies are so aggro in Darkwatch that I came up with a funny strategy: equip crossbow that shoots timed explosive arrows - face away from enemies and run from them while shooting slightly ahead of your feet so that you run over the fizzling arrow. Enemies will soon be behind you where your arrow was -- *boom!* Are the enemies in RE Village able to be setup like this with mines?

How well does RE Village escape weighted-down body-mass realism? In Darkwatch, there are obviously more whimsical elements. The most memorable artistic enemy mechanic: Jumping skeletons leap up in a stylistically induced slow-motion giving them more "hang-time" for you a chance to blast them back down where they came from. Do you think something like this could be incorporated into FPS RE titles?

Not really into FPS.

Does Fatal Frame count?

No vampires... Yeah, as a TP / FPS hybrid. I'm trying to get with all that text is how enemies almost always aggravatingly stick to players in FPS games whereas in TPS, the enemies strike you or knock you on your ass and then give you a little bit of space before attempting to repeat the process. (RE VIllage seems to be an exception for FPS games.)

With Fatal Frame V, I don't remember ghost enemies trying to stick the protag but strike them. I think a ghost game could easily incorporate sticking -> moving through the player / possessing the player. In FP, you could be alerted in the HUD that possession is taking place and wield the camera around trying to figure out where the ghost is attached. I think that visually works scarier if the player is shown in third person. And the character's head can even animate by looking to the side. Even RE4's over-the-shoulder, gave you small space to observe when someone was about to hit you from behind when running (i.e. Vergdugo). I'm curious how well you think you could play Fatal Frame's with its mechanics if ghosts were to respawn? Maybe even going as far as to have a ghost hunter Mercs minigame.

>FF mercs

I mainly played FF1 so not entirely about ghosts in the rest of the series but it wouldn't really work with most types. Maybe the really basic ones like the reporter but if you throw Blinded in with others you'd be screwed.

Some of the challenge modes had more than one type but they were ones that are pretty easy to deal with normally.

The new Horizon looks absolutely atrocious. Can predict every aspect of the game a mile off.

Crouch walking through grass? Check.
Stealth kill button? Check.
Automated platforming? You got it.
Combat with stupid slomo shit and no hit reactions? Obviously.
Protagonist not shutting the fuck up? Of course.

I expect these games to be trash and I still watch these in disbelief of how completely unimaginative and shitty they look.

Don't care for the new one. But I admit I enjoyed the bow in the first.

Really got my range fix. Good status effects too.

Anyone heard of this game, Soul of the Samurai? Looks like it's not too bad, psx Onimusha.